Good quick and practical demonstration. The weakest link in the audio chain when doing comparisons is the human ear, followed by the speakers, and the room acoustical frequency response. All the op amps mentioned have open loop gains well past the audio frequency range, and relatively good harmonic distortion values of signals in the audio, maybe some variation in op amp noise (but with distortion, you would have to be superman to hear the delta change over the purposeful distortion of the pedal). What determines the final sound is the circuit design, component values and types (especially aging of capacitors), circuit construction/shielding. For distortion, it really comes down to circuit design - followed by your audio chain ending at your ear. The only way to test differences is to use a spectrum analyzer and play the exact came guitar lick (digitally recorded and passed through the devices). I'm betting the spectrum analyzer will indeed see differences, but you won't be able to tell the difference without looking at the output. In the end, it's all subjective, and it all comes down to opinion.
Hi Joe thanks a lot for your experiment, i am working on a design for a "serious" analog amplifier (after 2 semester in electronic engineering), your try save me a lot of time, and i completely agree with you, the JRC4558d and (rc4558p ) sound slightly more bright with cleaner lower frequencies...
It would be interesting to see if you could identify which one was the JRC4558 in a double blind test. To make this fairer still, a clean recording of the guitar signal should be made - and the same recording played back through the tube screamer with each op amp fitted in turn. The fact that you knew which op amp was which in advance has most likely subconsciously influenced your playing - and that is what is affecting the sound. That said, if the belief that the JRC4558 produces the desired tonal result (whether misplaced or not) gives more confidence to your playing, then this is a completely valid reason to opt for that op amp in and of itself. From a technical viewpoint, the frequency range of applied signals in the audio spectrum should be far too low for the differences in slew rates (response times) between the different op amps to be noticed - even the high frequency harmonics that result from the abrupt clipping action of the MA150 silicon diodes. Nice vid, thanks.
By theory, the opamp only needs to have high enough gain such that the gain doesn't depend on the opamp at all. I hope everyone hears this very clearly. It doesn't matter whether the opamp has 1million gain or hundred thousand gain. It will sound exactly the same for our ears given it's put into negative feedback. So changing opamp is changing literally nothing. Some older opamps might have slightly lesser UGB due to which you might hear only low frequencies sounding more warm + high frequencies get attenuated due to which the opamp is clipped lesser or enters the non linear region to a lesser level due to which you may feel it's warmer tone. But with modern opamps, you're practically going to have those UGB's beyond what you can hear and literally modern amps will sound quite the same and yes little bit less warmer compared to old ones as it's performing better at high frequencies. BWT, Joe Nice video.
@@JohnShalamskas That is a true statement, from a spec sheet perspective. However, those differences are extremely subtle and the only difference you would _hear_ in a circuit like this (negative feedback - the gain is determined by ratio of resistors) _might_ be slew rate, and I pretty much doubt that as well. Even at ~2V / uSec for the older 4558, there would only be a microsecond or two difference between time to voltage for its output vs a more modern op amp. Not detectable by a human. The only way to verify all the conjecture on this or any comparison, though, is to do double blind tests with a fairly large population. Probably better to spend the time playing :-)
@@ropamart When you drive the op amp into the nonlinear region (overdrive) then there are differences in the distortion products between different op amp designs.
I'm checking out this video because I found several 4558's made by Texas Instruments in my Japanese built Teac a-3440 4 track recorder from the late 70's, early 80's. I'm glad to see some it's components have not been improved upon or made obsolete. I wounder what this Teac recorder would sound like with old time tubes instead of solid state. I'm betting much better.
The same story with me: I'm here because of Teac A-3440, and I thought about changing vintage JRC 4558 in preamps for something else... :) For me there are very little differences, however (surprisingly for me) I prefer vintage JRC 4558. But I wouldn't bother myself about that difference.
Thank you for your straight forward work! I find it funny to read "chip X is better than chip Y because of..." Add Some word salad of vague terms. And if that doesn't work they throw out " slew rate". Then if I don't agree, I don't have a disearning enough ear! To me they sound just as close as not. Not enough to warrant extra money or time on. Let those who want to be snobby sod off!
Wow, if there is a difference it is so subtle that most wouldn't be able to identify the vintage JRC4558D Op-amp. Some of my dirt pedals that fit into the overdrive category have the following: - Maxon OD-9 and BOSS BD-2 Blues Driver: RC4558P (both modded by Robert Keeley) - Menatone Red Snapper and Menatone Blue Collar: KA4558 - Nobles ODR-1: JRC4558D (this is the newest version with the bass cut/add switch) The bottom line for me, there is a ton of cork sniffing going on with people insisting that to get the true tubescreamer tone you have to have the vintage JRC4558D Op-amp. I disagree. I think it is the combination of all of the electronics, including the JRC4558D Op-amp, that comprise the sound we associate with the tubescreamer. Analogman did a really nice historical perspective on the tubescreamer you can check out if you want to know more. However, if you want to spend whatever some seller is charging for a vintage JRC4558D Op-amp, go for it. Personally, I don't think you will notice any difference. Just sayin'. Comments anyone.
You might notice better the subtleties of difference experienced when playing lead, where the individual note dynamics would stand out better than just crunched up chords.
There is definitely a difference between the ICs, albeit subtle. The distinction becomes more noticeable in specific scenarios, such as track stacking.
Even through a good set of headphones I really couldn't hear much difference between them. The OPA2134, TL072 and TL082 may have had a tad more bass content and maybe sounded a smidgen "clearer" than either of the 4558s (which sounded identical IMHO, which makes sense considering they're the same chip just made in different factories), but any differences will quickly disappear in a band mix. I use a JRC4558 in my TS808 clone FWIW, not because of any special "mojo" but because they're $.50 from Small Bear and I wanted a stock version to establish a baseline from which to mod. It is a bit noisy though, which might be a good reason to upgrade to an OPA2134 if I can be bothered to spend $5 on a single op-amp.
CA3240E ($1) is pretty close to the sound of the OPA2134 for 1/5 the price. This is from my testing in a King of Tone, where it is easy to A/B chips since both sides of the pedal are nearly identical. (There is slightly more mid boost on the yellow side since it is normally used as a boost after gain.)
Mr. Font - while that could be true, we have here 4 different chips. they do sound different. so if you are wanting one or the other, you would have to admit there are differences and you can hear em. Sure it might be true that a second chip of the same type makes yet another sound. Your statement about 3 of the same pedals sounding cmpletely different is a common statement. But I have not seen a video that does just that. So until I hear that myself, I will leave it alone. In this test we got what we got.
Well, the background hiss might be different with the different amps, they have different noise figures. The way to measure the difference is to record your strumming and replay it into the different opamps. Then compare the wave-forms directly.
Came to post the same. Playing live each op-amp isn't an accurate test. Ideally you'd play the *exact* same audio every time. Human variation makes this comparison useless for any objective analysis
I'm listening on a phone (I know) but the character of each chip was super samey. Sure, even on the phone you could occasionaly sense little differences, but they were all within the TS sweet spot for me. Headphones or speakers might reveal more but I doubt it would change the similarity in "character". I reckon this is def a case of myth busted! Cool vid!
Many people think opamps are some magical thing that you can swap out to get a different sound, which is totally untrue. In the *majority* of *properly designed* audio applications, any opamp that will perform reasonably in the audio range will sound exactly the same. Opamps do however have totally different sets of parameters, as different opamps are designed for different use cases. As some people have said, the higher input impedance in the FET opamps may have an affect on the sound *in this particular application*. In some applications, the opamp used was carefully chosen for its parameters (for example, the high input impedance being a requirement) - swapping it out will often have negative results. In general, many usages of opamps in audio circuits have no special requirements, and if designed well should have no actual difference between them. In other words, assuming the opamp isn't totally crap (a TL07x or 5532 is just fine), and assuming you understand the circuit it's being used in well, most likely the best result you can hope to achieve by swapping opamps is a (unperceivable to a human) slightly lower noise floor or distortion.
The biggest factor is component tolerances...And the capacitors influence the tone,but mainly if you change component values...Otherwise the opamp is hyped crap...I've modded a "ton" of tube screamers in the entire line...
I was reading all the comments while you were playing so I couldn't see when all the switches of different chips were made but only hear them . . . or rather couldn't hear them (the switching between chips). Having said that though, I am listening though POS laptop speakers. However, my ears are so old and blown out from listening to stacks of Marshalls in the late 60s and 70s I wouldn't be able to tell anyway LOL. There is so much more to the sound anyway - Guitar, pickups, amp, length of guitar cord, room size, room acoustics yada yada yada . . . Even though I always thought it was a bunch of BS (along with specific capacitors in old Fender amps and crap like that) people are still paying $$$ for it. As of 05/17/21 TS808s and TS10s are still selling for up to $400+ on the bay and asking prices on re verb are WAY up to $2500. Also you can buy 1000 JRC4558D from China for $200 on the bay. . . . I'm in the wrong business.
Interesting. I just swapped the JRC4558 in my EHX East River Drive, which is a TS9-clone, for a Burr Brown OPA 2132. The sound change is subtle, it just has a bit more balls (the mids sound more boosted) and a bit more crisp (the upper frequencies are a bit more present). But above all, the noise floor is lower / S/N-ratio is better.
@@GrevDrake well that's all that really matters, isn't it? I guess I'll call Rohde Schwartz and tell them to shut down their instrumentation division. We have Bart Eeltink now!
@@1pcfred Sorry, but you seem to be a bit harsh here. 1. I don't have a spectrum analyzer here, so I have no physical proof, if you're looking for that. 2. still, by merely using my ears, I can here a difference between the sounds using different opamps. This is also not very surprising, since the JRC4558 is a BJT-input OPAMP and the OPA2132 is a JFET-input OPAMP. I haven't tried it, but a basic TL072 or TL082 will also sound better already in comparison to a JRC4558. The JRC4558 is just a very noisy opamp with average specs. If you have a spectrum analyzer, feel free to test this and present the results. In the meantime, I enjoy the improved sound of my overdrive.
@@GrevDrake op amps can certainly sound different. But to think you can ascertain all the specs you rattle off with just your ears is a bit presumptuous. I just stick with, sounds better to me myself. A statement like that elicits less criticism. The truth is human hearing really isn't very sensitive compared to test gear. That's why Rohde & Schwarz can charge what they do for the gear they make. www.ebay.com/i/203109740153?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkcid=28
The TLO chips had so much more high end that they sounded fizzy. The Burr Brown was not fizzy but still was brighter and more open sounding than the 4558 chips.
no, you are right. JRC4558 is crisper than others. But I want to know about Noise levels of each. Which one had less noise? I mean the hiss level on high volume when no signal is played.
I think the Burr Brown IC was the only one that sounded slightly different than the others. At least that's my opinion. In the long run there isn't much of a difference between any of them, but I guess if you want a slightly different flavor then go with the Burr Brown. In reality it doesn't make much of a difference. I remember i used to have an Ibanex Tube Screamer reissue, and got a mod kit for it that included the JRC chip, and the Burr Brown, along with a few other components....Long story short the mod did make the pedal sound slightly better, but I think it was all in my head...For some reason back then, i couldn't hear the difference in the JRC, and the Burr Brown, but I remember leaving the Burr Brown in the unit because I got tired of switching them out.
I made an Op Amp only box w a gain of 10,000. In that the Op Amp difference was huge. Better audio grade Op Amps sounded worse because they had more even gain at high frequency. The lowly 741 sounded best because the highs start rolling off at a gain of 100. Not super sounding by itself, but overdriving tubes you get a fantastic sound... BTW in this demo, I think single notes would have shown more difference; too much wave form complexity w chords so the output is too busy to hear much difference.
Ironicaly... the shape of the overdrive tone does not make the opamp, but the two diodes connected in the feedback circuit of opamp. So no wonder the tones of the circuits are almost identical.
Perhaps if I had better speakers or headphones I could make it out the subtle differences, but I couldn't. It was my understanding that the RC4558 was to make the pedal cleaner. I couldn't tell. Great video!
For me diference between OpAmps is all about Slew Rates and Noise Ratio, in TS kind circuits this is not a big problem so you can switch the opamp with no changes, but for more agressive distortion tipologies diferences in the slew rate and noise figure can make a big difference making some ICs unusable.
Old telephone answering machines and I think no I definitely know, some of the old Boss pedals... just do a little research and then go find cheap stuff at the Salvation Army. Better yet change two resistors on the TS9 for the 808 sound...No better yet leave the TS9 alone and get an 808, they’re both useful, Then get another and do asymmetrical clipping. The biggest difference I ever heard from changing op-amps was in how the notes decayed, and the overall noise floor. If you’re adding vibrato to the note it’s pretty much null. PT Barnum rules prevail!
I tried different op amps when I built my TS. I tried TL072, NE5532, Burr Brown and some old JRC's I pulled from an organ. They all sounded very similar. I liked the Burr Brown the least. Nothing wrong with the TL072. I ended up leaving the JRC in it.
What I’ve noticed about electronic components altogether (this includes things as basic as pickups and tone caps) is that the overall experience you get with them isn’t *really* down to an A/B scenario. For instance, with similar amp settings and chords, my Lindy Fralins sound VERY similar to stock fenders. Here’s where the differences become apparent. The Fralins will STAY nice with different amp settings, using different pedals....for things like tight interval chords and flubby stuff like the high frets on low strings. On the surface, for the EXACT same clean amp sound? Yeah, they’re kind of similar sounding. But a deeper dive reveals more. Now this could be complete nonsense for something like an operational amplifier...but I’d be willing to guess that an op-amp swap plus a few other component mods DO ultimately make a difference...one percent here, two percent there...and all of the sudden you have an amazing tube screamer sound tailored to your tastes/setup. Or, you know, you could just buy an earthquaker palisades or jhs bonsai (which are both amazing) then call it a day. But hay...who doesn’t like soldering irons and tiny electronic components?
You are not wrong. The TI rc4558p is known for being more aggressive. Some people like that more. Some do not. I also notice the difference becomes more apparent at gig volume at least 20 feet in front of the amp. At that volume and distance, I prefer the dreaded Toshiba ta75558p. Under those conditions, I find the original jrc4558d to have some harsh high artifacts that are unpleasant to my ears. Your mileage may vary. Sound is ultimately judged by subjective viewpoints. You will find larger differences between the op amps at volume from a distance. For some reason, close micing or bedroom playing doesn't give the full picture, and many believe that to mean that there are little to no differences. I can attest, there are vast differences. Not make or break differences but subjectively better or worse.
Also note, stock TS circuits and modded TS circuits work better with different op amps. The burr brown opa2134pa works great with a modded (opened frequency) TS circuit, but doesn't work as well with stock specs. So, the test could possibly be flawed toward one chip or another depending on frequency and gain settings. That TI rc chip is great for medium gain overdrives but not for colored boost. Other chips prefer low gain settings. How do you use it? Is it modded? Where are you listening from? It all adds up. Does the op amp make a difference? Short answer? Yes, but it's not the end all be all. The jrc4558d will not turn a proco rat into a tube Screamer on its own. It will still be a rat.
Last week I read a post on the stomp box forum from an engineer that worked literally across the street from the guys at Ibanez. He said they talked and exchanged information and what they told him about the 4558 was unsurprisingly. They knew it wasn't a very good op amp but it was very cheap and did the job, otherwise the TS would have been built with something better. In my experience in any amp and pedal, the 4558 just sounds ratty and scuzzy. If I played punk rock I'm sure I would praise it, but I am an instrumentalist and metal guitarist.
Burr Brown has slightly more crunch than the rest. All the older chips sound slightly warmer. The modern ones are more clear or more treble/mid to the sound. Without an A/B comparison like this I'd never know
Have you tried RC4559DE? It is ceramic dip8 and it sounds really good(especially the mid-range) and I always replace the on-board ne5532 in dac with it~~
I could certainly hear differences between the various chips. In particular, the TL072 sounded thin/fizzy (not nice to my ears) and the Burr Brown sounded warm/round. The rest were somewhere in between. I too prefer the original MIJ JRC4558D. And yeah, whenever I build a TS circuit (the TS-10 is my fave) I always socket the IC and install a three-way clipping switch (diode lift in the center). That switch alone REALLY expands the usefulness of the pedal! I include an assortment of chips and most people prefer the 4558s.
Do you use silicon clipping diodes in one switch position, and germanium for the other? I had an EHX Soul Food (Klon clone) with the JHS meat and 3 mod. It has a 3 way switch for choosing 2 sets of clipping diodes, or no diode clipping. I tried 1S1588 diodes in it (the type used in the KoT) and it sounded a little different than what came from JHS. Germanium 1N34a diodes clip at a very low voltage, which corresponds with a more compressed, heavily clipped tone. I found that I generally preferred no clipping at all. The clean boost available from that pedal was impressive. It could still give some distortion from overdriving the op amp at high gain settings.
The JRC4558 definitely sounded better. The OPA2134PA was second. The 72 and 82 are probably exactly the same.. The differences would be lost in the mix but individually jamming at home. If you have a good ear you can tell the difference.
Really great comparison the way things should be done. Not much difference, although the OPA sounded nice in one instance, but it is too small differences to even notice. What you really should have done is compare them wrt to noise levels. It would have been helpful as the lowest noise chip in this case would have been the best choice as they otherwise sound basically the same. As an example if you swapped these chips in e.g. a vintage phaser you would hear use noise differences, and it could be annoying. So the noiseless would be the best option.
The TL082 and 72 sound a bit brighter than the old 4558. I bet you'd hear it more in higher frequencies too (try playing some higher notes). The slew rate is way different between the 2. The 4558 is like 1.7 V/us and a TL082 and 72 are about 13 V/us. The OPA is way overkill for this but will probably end up sounding similar to the TL072. All most my opinion (with a couple of numbers) ;)
In my opinion that same at all they just buffer on that Tube screamer just change a lilbit of bass or treble if you want some different sound change the Diode guys 😊
Cool test. I guess it's an A/B/C/D/E test. Appreciate your objectivity. Great idea about the socketed PC-board. Sorry, I can't hear a bit of difference in the lot of them. My experience with op-amps is with signal conditioning for control circuits and data acquisition along with servo amplifiers. In those circuits the circuit elements really make the difference and the particular op-amp is usually transparent. (Isn't "transparency" the original design goal of the operational amplifier?)
You're exactly right - the Op-Amp doesn't do a huge amount other than cleanly boost the signal (usually into diodes) - so the differences are so small they're basically not worth worrying about.
People have been told over and over the vintage chip is better. In a blind shuffled around test they couldn't tell the difference, and would probably pick different chips several times probably based on a slight difference in your actual performance. The "circuit" is the important part!! I own dozens of screamers and they can have slight tolerance differences amongst identical models that have nothing to do with the chip. The chip is probably less than 1% of a difference maker because the chips are very similar in function, and have slight tolerance differences even amongst the same chips. Caps and resistors can change the feel even more, but circuit is King!!
Yeah, if you're a real cork sniffer, it might make a difference - but once you get on stage or in context with a band, no WAY are you going to hear a diff. Not enough to lose sleep over for sure.
@@lordrahulcool Lookup the 'pinout' for the existing chip and the one you want to use and that will tell you what you need to know. Most, if not all of the op amps you'd use, are a direct swap. The 4558 and 072 he used here, are directly interchangeable.
Did you set up a blind test for yourself at all? Maybe put the tracks on shuffle, record your screen, let 'em play 20 times or so, put check marks whenever one jumped out at you as sounding preferable, then go back and check if there was any pattern to your preferences? I feel like a test like that would REALLY get some of the "magic op amp" folks questioning some of their financial decisions.
Hmm...can't say I'm too into blindfold tests, to be honest. A lot of people do them very well, but I prefer to present things as they are. Not saying never, though...might feel appropriate to do at some point!
@@JoePerkinsMusic oh, I didn't mean to present the video as a blind test for the viewer. I was just curious if you did one yourself as you were putting the video together or something. Nicely done overall though! It was a thorough comparison.
@@LukeSniper Oh I see! No, it'd be very hard to do that as I record the audio separately to the video - and especially with a video such as this, I need to label everything carefully so that I don't end up with 7 video & 7 audio clips floating around, and I don't know which is which! I think I'm usually fairly good at not listening with confirmation bias anyway :-)
There is some debate over what were original opamps to the TS808.... some information reveals the Texas Instruments RC4558 is the actual original .... also... the original clipping diodes were Panasonic MA150 diodes... i dont know for sure about all that... but i can tell you once i swapped the diodes to the Panasonic MA150's and paired those with the TI opamp... my tube screamer is better than its ever been... not quite so mid spikey... way more musical... more articulation on the individual notes ... just a whole lot more fun hahahaha ... Blessings, Mark
You can even sub a TL062 if you are worried about battery drain - but it does have worse specs. Just read the datasheets! If they have the same pinouts they can be swapped. Not "all" op-amps do though...
My fav is RC4558 in TS after my own test, but on stage there is no reason to care about what a chip. OPA sounds to me at best, but then TS sounds a bit different than TS:-)
BTW in fuller sounding OD there is difference, for example Zendrive (4558, OP2604, LM833). But sound filters in TS make chip differences for cork sniffers only imho.
5532P 5532D 4558DD 4558P 4556AD TL072 353D 833N 실험해봤는데 귀로 차이를 느낄 수 없었습니다. OPA2134가 들어 있는 CDP도 들어 봤지만 4558이 내장된 CDP보다 좋다는 느낌을 받지 못했습니다. 비싼 부품이 들어 있는 전자 제품을 구입하는 것은 명품을 사는 심리와 비슷하다고 봅니다.
I would have to compare them in a live on stage loud performance ,,I own a ts 808 4558 and a sm metal dual 4558 I havent used either in years ,,just junk I do use a KTR
I agree the JRC was the best and sounded warmer, although I'd really like to do a blind listen test to these and see if it's just my preconceptions leaning me in that direction. But from this video I thought it was noticeably better than the very cheap op amps
Just for the sake of argument... did you try this out with an amp that was not overdriven to begin the test? Some overdriven amps will not even allow one to hear the difference between guitars.
I heard the rc4558 the brightest.All others sound very similar in tone however, I think the 082 was warmer than the 072. All sound just fine, very close but the rc4558. Sounded great too but that’s the one I think is more different, thighter bottom, more mids.
All 4558s are not the same. I have a first issue TS and I've tried various 4558s dd dx etc, and while they all sound similar and will work the 4558d is what works the best period.
The JRC had a little less low mids/bass and a little brighter upper mids. The TL and OP chips sounded a little more fat and muddy compared to the JRC. But, it’s like moving your amp controls 1-2 places either way. So, not huge.
I prefer the MC33178PG chip. It is more suitable for heavy music styles. By the way, such a chip uses Zakk Wylde in its nominal tube screamer. Produces a drier, overloaded, steroid sound.
Yes. But not in a Tube Screamer. I've tried a bunch of different op amps in a King Of Tone, and after a lot of swapping around, I ended up with a JRC4580 in the red channel (same as a stock KoT) and an OPA2134 in the yellow channel, running both channels in "clean boost" mode (no diode clipping). The CA3240 came close to the OPA2134 but the Burr Brown had the least spitty distortion at high gain. I also run 18V instead of 9V, for more clean headroom and less compression. Both channels of my KoT are the "higher gain" version so there's more usable range on the gain pots, which Analog Mike recommends. Hurray for socketed op amps!
Good quick and practical demonstration. The weakest link in the audio chain when doing comparisons is the human ear, followed by the speakers, and the room acoustical frequency response. All the op amps mentioned have open loop gains well past the audio frequency range, and relatively good harmonic distortion values of signals in the audio, maybe some variation in op amp noise (but with distortion, you would have to be superman to hear the delta change over the purposeful distortion of the pedal). What determines the final sound is the circuit design, component values and types (especially aging of capacitors), circuit construction/shielding. For distortion, it really comes down to circuit design - followed by your audio chain ending at your ear. The only way to test differences is to use a spectrum analyzer and play the exact came guitar lick (digitally recorded and passed through the devices). I'm betting the spectrum analyzer will indeed see differences, but you won't be able to tell the difference without looking at the output. In the end, it's all subjective, and it all comes down to opinion.
Hi Joe thanks a lot for your experiment, i am working on a design for a "serious" analog amplifier (after 2 semester in electronic engineering), your try save me a lot of time, and i completely agree with you, the JRC4558d and (rc4558p ) sound slightly more bright with cleaner lower frequencies...
It would be interesting to see if you could identify which one was the JRC4558 in a double blind test. To make this fairer still, a clean recording of the guitar signal should be made - and the same recording played back through the tube screamer with each op amp fitted in turn. The fact that you knew which op amp was which in advance has most likely subconsciously influenced your playing - and that is what is affecting the sound. That said, if the belief that the JRC4558 produces the desired tonal result (whether misplaced or not) gives more confidence to your playing, then this is a completely valid reason to opt for that op amp in and of itself. From a technical viewpoint, the frequency range of applied signals in the audio spectrum should be far too low for the differences in slew rates (response times) between the different op amps to be noticed - even the high frequency harmonics that result from the abrupt clipping action of the MA150 silicon diodes. Nice vid, thanks.
Sounds the same to me!
What little difference I heard was probably done with your strumming and fingers.
I'm a fan of a recorder or a looper just for that reason.
By theory, the opamp only needs to have high enough gain such that the gain doesn't depend on the opamp at all. I hope everyone hears this very clearly. It doesn't matter whether the opamp has 1million gain or hundred thousand gain. It will sound exactly the same for our ears given it's put into negative feedback. So changing opamp is changing literally nothing. Some older opamps might have slightly lesser UGB due to which you might hear only low frequencies sounding more warm + high frequencies get attenuated due to which the opamp is clipped lesser or enters the non linear region to a lesser level due to which you may feel it's warmer tone. But with modern opamps, you're practically going to have those UGB's beyond what you can hear and literally modern amps will sound quite the same and yes little bit less warmer compared to old ones as it's performing better at high frequencies.
BWT, Joe Nice video.
The distortion products and noise will be different between various op amps.
@@JohnShalamskas That is a true statement, from a spec sheet perspective. However, those differences are extremely subtle and the only difference you would _hear_ in a circuit like this (negative feedback - the gain is determined by ratio of resistors) _might_ be slew rate, and I pretty much doubt that as well. Even at ~2V / uSec for the older 4558, there would only be a microsecond or two difference between time to voltage for its output vs a more modern op amp. Not detectable by a human. The only way to verify all the conjecture on this or any comparison, though, is to do double blind tests with a fairly large population. Probably better to spend the time playing :-)
@@ropamart When you drive the op amp into the nonlinear region (overdrive) then there are differences in the distortion products between different op amp designs.
I'm checking out this video because I found several 4558's made by Texas Instruments in my Japanese built Teac a-3440 4 track recorder from the late 70's, early 80's. I'm glad to see some it's components have not been improved upon or made obsolete. I wounder what this Teac recorder would sound like with old time tubes instead of solid state. I'm betting much better.
I think there's very few vintage components that have been improved on...!!
The same story with me: I'm here because of Teac A-3440, and I thought about changing vintage JRC 4558 in preamps for something else... :) For me there are very little differences, however (surprisingly for me) I prefer vintage JRC 4558. But I wouldn't bother myself about that difference.
really appreciate your style of editing in this type of comparison!! thanks pal
No worries Reed...cheers!
thanks very much, such a great demonstration!
not to mention the conclusion!
it was also nice to see Flat Eric on your desk :)
Eric is always a hit! :P
You really ROCK, 360o professional !!
Thank you for your straight forward work! I find it funny to read "chip X is better than chip Y because of..." Add Some word salad of vague terms. And if that doesn't work they throw out " slew rate". Then if I don't agree, I don't have a disearning enough ear! To me they sound just as close as not. Not enough to warrant extra money or time on. Let those who want to be snobby sod off!
Wow, if there is a difference it is so subtle that most wouldn't be able to identify the vintage JRC4558D Op-amp. Some of my dirt pedals that fit into the overdrive category have the following:
- Maxon OD-9 and BOSS BD-2 Blues Driver: RC4558P (both modded by Robert Keeley)
- Menatone Red Snapper and Menatone Blue Collar: KA4558
- Nobles ODR-1: JRC4558D (this is the newest version with the bass cut/add switch)
The bottom line for me, there is a ton of cork sniffing going on with people insisting that to get the true tubescreamer tone you have to have the vintage JRC4558D Op-amp. I disagree. I think it is the combination of all of the electronics, including the JRC4558D Op-amp, that comprise the sound we associate with the tubescreamer. Analogman did a really nice historical perspective on the tubescreamer you can check out if you want to know more.
However, if you want to spend whatever some seller is charging for a vintage JRC4558D Op-amp, go for it. Personally, I don't think you will notice any difference. Just sayin'. Comments anyone.
You might notice better the subtleties of difference experienced when playing lead, where the individual note dynamics would stand out better than just crunched up chords.
Why would the op amp affect playing dynamics ??
There is definitely a difference between the ICs, albeit subtle. The distinction becomes more noticeable in specific scenarios, such as track stacking.
Even through a good set of headphones I really couldn't hear much difference between them. The OPA2134, TL072 and TL082 may have had a tad more bass content and maybe sounded a smidgen "clearer" than either of the 4558s (which sounded identical IMHO, which makes sense considering they're the same chip just made in different factories), but any differences will quickly disappear in a band mix. I use a JRC4558 in my TS808 clone FWIW, not because of any special "mojo" but because they're $.50 from Small Bear and I wanted a stock version to establish a baseline from which to mod. It is a bit noisy though, which might be a good reason to upgrade to an OPA2134 if I can be bothered to spend $5 on a single op-amp.
CA3240E ($1) is pretty close to the sound of the OPA2134 for 1/5 the price. This is from my testing in a King of Tone, where it is easy to A/B chips since both sides of the pedal are nearly identical. (There is slightly more mid boost on the yellow side since it is normally used as a boost after gain.)
Any FET-based opamp will improve the signal/noise-ratio tremendously and will give it just a bit more definition
An ever-so-slight nudge of the volume, tone or drive knob will make more difference than the op-amp used.
Agreed. At least use a recording as the source to eliminate differences introduced by the musician. Fun video, but not an objective test.
The op amp thing is super overrated... The difference between them could be the same as the differences between two pedals with the same chip...
From what I could tell comparing these, you're right...the differences were so subtle they're basically not worth thinking about!
@@JoePerkinsMusic at least with overdrives... Modulation is probably a totally different story
Yep, 100%!
Dear friends what really matters is slew rate and an educated ear, one could enjoy death if it is music but it's hell if it's noise
Mr. Font - while that could be true, we have here 4 different chips. they do sound different. so if you are wanting one or the other, you would have to admit there are differences and you can hear em. Sure it might be true that a second chip of the same type makes yet another sound. Your statement about 3 of the same pedals sounding cmpletely different is a common statement. But I have not seen a video that does just that. So until I hear that myself, I will leave it alone. In this test we got what we got.
Well, the background hiss might be different with the different amps, they have different noise figures. The way to measure the difference is to record your strumming and replay it into the different opamps. Then compare the wave-forms directly.
Came to post the same. Playing live each op-amp isn't an accurate test. Ideally you'd play the *exact* same audio every time. Human variation makes this comparison useless for any objective analysis
I'm listening on a phone (I know) but the character of each chip was super samey. Sure, even on the phone you could occasionaly sense little differences, but they were all within the TS sweet spot for me. Headphones or speakers might reveal more but I doubt it would change the similarity in "character".
I reckon this is def a case of myth busted!
Cool vid!
Many people think opamps are some magical thing that you can swap out to get a different sound, which is totally untrue. In the *majority* of *properly designed* audio applications, any opamp that will perform reasonably in the audio range will sound exactly the same. Opamps do however have totally different sets of parameters, as different opamps are designed for different use cases. As some people have said, the higher input impedance in the FET opamps may have an affect on the sound *in this particular application*. In some applications, the opamp used was carefully chosen for its parameters (for example, the high input impedance being a requirement) - swapping it out will often have negative results. In general, many usages of opamps in audio circuits have no special requirements, and if designed well should have no actual difference between them. In other words, assuming the opamp isn't totally crap (a TL07x or 5532 is just fine), and assuming you understand the circuit it's being used in well, most likely the best result you can hope to achieve by swapping opamps is a (unperceivable to a human) slightly lower noise floor or distortion.
This is true. I tell people get new pups or spkrs if you want real changes......
Most electronic designers will agree with you! 😊
The biggest factor is component tolerances...And the capacitors influence the tone,but mainly if you change component values...Otherwise the opamp is hyped crap...I've modded a "ton" of tube screamers in the entire line...
I was reading all the comments while you were playing so I couldn't see when all the switches of different chips were made but only hear them . . . or rather couldn't hear them (the switching between chips). Having said that though, I am listening though POS laptop speakers. However, my ears are so old and blown out from listening to stacks of Marshalls in the late 60s and 70s I wouldn't be able to tell anyway LOL. There is so much more to the sound anyway - Guitar, pickups, amp, length of guitar cord, room size, room acoustics yada yada yada . . .
Even though I always thought it was a bunch of BS (along with specific capacitors in old Fender amps and crap like that) people are still paying $$$ for it. As of 05/17/21 TS808s and TS10s are still selling for up to $400+ on the bay and asking prices on re verb are WAY up to $2500. Also you can buy 1000 JRC4558D from China for $200 on the bay. . . . I'm in the wrong business.
Interesting. I just swapped the JRC4558 in my EHX East River Drive, which is a TS9-clone, for a Burr Brown OPA 2132. The sound change is subtle, it just has a bit more balls (the mids sound more boosted) and a bit more crisp (the upper frequencies are a bit more present). But above all, the noise floor is lower / S/N-ratio is better.
You verified all you're saying with a spectrum analyzer, right?
@@1pcfred why would I? I can clearly hear the difference.
@@GrevDrake well that's all that really matters, isn't it? I guess I'll call Rohde Schwartz and tell them to shut down their instrumentation division. We have Bart Eeltink now!
@@1pcfred Sorry, but you seem to be a bit harsh here.
1. I don't have a spectrum analyzer here, so I have no physical proof, if you're looking for that.
2. still, by merely using my ears, I can here a difference between the sounds using different opamps. This is also not very surprising, since the JRC4558 is a BJT-input OPAMP and the OPA2132 is a JFET-input OPAMP. I haven't tried it, but a basic TL072 or TL082 will also sound better already in comparison to a JRC4558.
The JRC4558 is just a very noisy opamp with average specs.
If you have a spectrum analyzer, feel free to test this and present the results. In the meantime, I enjoy the improved sound of my overdrive.
@@GrevDrake op amps can certainly sound different. But to think you can ascertain all the specs you rattle off with just your ears is a bit presumptuous. I just stick with, sounds better to me myself. A statement like that elicits less criticism. The truth is human hearing really isn't very sensitive compared to test gear. That's why Rohde & Schwarz can charge what they do for the gear they make. www.ebay.com/i/203109740153?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkcid=28
The TL072 has the best articulation, and that's what I'm looking for. Thanks for this!
The TLO chips had so much more high end that they sounded fizzy. The Burr Brown was not fizzy but still was brighter and more open sounding than the 4558 chips.
I like the ballsy mids of the 4558D and P. Punchier mids. Guitar is mostly a midrange instrument. The mids are what makes the bell like sound.
I'd love using TL072 when before this Pedal I put STRATOBLASTER and COMPRESSOR at first.
Sound AMAZING!!!!!
no, you are right. JRC4558 is crisper than others. But I want to know about Noise levels of each. Which one had less noise? I mean the hiss level on high volume when no signal is played.
Yes! Hiss, hum, and unwanted radio station reception drive me bonkers. It limits how much gain you can dial in.
I have a handful of TL072 chips, so I'll just stick with those. Thanks for the comparison!
TL072 op amps are poor performers compared to other common chips. ua-cam.com/video/WzLU-v8A4C8/v-deo.html
I think the Burr Brown IC was the only one that sounded slightly different than the others. At least that's my opinion. In the long run there isn't much of a difference between any of them, but I guess if you want a slightly different flavor then go with the Burr Brown. In reality it doesn't make much of a difference. I remember i used to have an Ibanex Tube Screamer reissue, and got a mod kit for it that included the JRC chip, and the Burr Brown, along with a few other components....Long story short the mod did make the pedal sound slightly better, but I think it was all in my head...For some reason back then, i couldn't hear the difference in the JRC, and the Burr Brown, but I remember leaving the Burr Brown in the unit because I got tired of switching them out.
I made an Op Amp only box w a gain of 10,000. In that the Op Amp difference was huge. Better audio grade Op Amps sounded worse because they had more even gain at high frequency. The lowly 741 sounded best because the highs start rolling off at a gain of 100. Not super sounding by itself, but overdriving tubes you get a fantastic sound... BTW in this demo, I think single notes would have shown more difference; too much wave form complexity w chords so the output is too busy to hear much difference.
Ironicaly... the shape of the overdrive tone does not make the opamp, but the two diodes connected in the feedback circuit of opamp. So no wonder the tones of the circuits are almost identical.
Yep - this was the point of the video! :-)
@@JoePerkinsMusic If you were able to omit the clipping diodes, like you can in the King of Tone with DIP switches, the difference is more apparent.
@@JohnShalamskas As I say in the intro, the first half of the video has no diode clipping
Burr Brown is low noise but I do not hear that. great video
Perhaps if I had better speakers or headphones I could make it out the subtle differences, but I couldn't. It was my understanding that the RC4558 was to make the pedal cleaner. I couldn't tell. Great video!
Even on good studio monitors the differences are negligible, if indeed they're there at all! So close it's basically not worth worrying about :-)
For me diference between OpAmps is all about Slew Rates and Noise Ratio, in TS kind circuits this is not a big problem so you can switch the opamp with no changes, but for more agressive distortion tipologies diferences in the slew rate and noise figure can make a big difference making some ICs unusable.
TL072 sounds better for me. I dont no why, perhaps more defined, clear and smooth.
Yeah I think it accentuated the pick attack nicely
TL072 and TL082 have FET inputs with very high impedance.
Fun fact: the RC4558p is used in the EMC B220 bass head preamps.
Old telephone answering machines and I think no I definitely know, some of the old Boss pedals... just do a little research and then go find cheap stuff at the Salvation Army. Better yet change two resistors on the TS9 for the 808 sound...No better yet leave the TS9 alone and get an 808, they’re both useful, Then get another and do asymmetrical clipping. The biggest difference I ever heard from changing op-amps was in how the notes decayed, and the overall noise floor. If you’re adding vibrato to the note it’s pretty much null. PT Barnum rules prevail!
are you by any chance playing Guna Manusia by Barasuara as the first RC4558 demo riff? great song man cheers!
Aha I wasn't...just 'generic blues' :P
@@JoePerkinsMusic hahaha fair enough!
I tried different op amps when I built my TS. I tried TL072, NE5532, Burr Brown and some old JRC's I pulled from an organ. They all sounded very similar. I liked the Burr Brown the least. Nothing wrong with the TL072. I ended up leaving the JRC in it.
Love it. I always thought there was a pile poop being sold around the the jrc magic. Diodes clipping where it’s at
What I’ve noticed about electronic components altogether (this includes things as basic as pickups and tone caps) is that the overall experience you get with them isn’t *really* down to an A/B scenario. For instance, with similar amp settings and chords, my Lindy Fralins sound VERY similar to stock fenders. Here’s where the differences become apparent. The Fralins will STAY nice with different amp settings, using different pedals....for things like tight interval chords and flubby stuff like the high frets on low strings. On the surface, for the EXACT same clean amp sound? Yeah, they’re kind of similar sounding. But a deeper dive reveals more. Now this could be complete nonsense for something like an operational amplifier...but I’d be willing to guess that an op-amp swap plus a few other component mods DO ultimately make a difference...one percent here, two percent there...and all of the sudden you have an amazing tube screamer sound tailored to your tastes/setup. Or, you know, you could just buy an earthquaker palisades or jhs bonsai (which are both amazing) then call it a day. But hay...who doesn’t like soldering irons and tiny electronic components?
That's what sockets are for. Easy swapping and no soldering.
John Shalamskas
Yeah for sure...I put chip cradles in all my ts mods
You are not wrong. The TI rc4558p is known for being more aggressive. Some people like that more. Some do not. I also notice the difference becomes more apparent at gig volume at least 20 feet in front of the amp. At that volume and distance, I prefer the dreaded Toshiba ta75558p. Under those conditions, I find the original jrc4558d to have some harsh high artifacts that are unpleasant to my ears. Your mileage may vary. Sound is ultimately judged by subjective viewpoints. You will find larger differences between the op amps at volume from a distance. For some reason, close micing or bedroom playing doesn't give the full picture, and many believe that to mean that there are little to no differences. I can attest, there are vast differences. Not make or break differences but subjectively better or worse.
Also note, stock TS circuits and modded TS circuits work better with different op amps. The burr brown opa2134pa works great with a modded (opened frequency) TS circuit, but doesn't work as well with stock specs. So, the test could possibly be flawed toward one chip or another depending on frequency and gain settings. That TI rc chip is great for medium gain overdrives but not for colored boost. Other chips prefer low gain settings. How do you use it? Is it modded? Where are you listening from? It all adds up. Does the op amp make a difference? Short answer? Yes, but it's not the end all be all. The jrc4558d will not turn a proco rat into a tube Screamer on its own. It will still be a rat.
I kind of agree it had the slightest lower end warmth but very subtle.
Agreed...but too subtle to worry about, I'd say :-)
wow, i was going to say I didn't hear any difference but you said it yourself.
Certainly not enough to really worry about :-)
May i ask what kind of clipping the op amp produce on its own? Hard or soft? Symmetrical or asymmetrical?
Last week I read a post on the stomp box forum from an engineer that worked literally across the street from the guys at Ibanez. He said they talked and exchanged information and what they told him about the 4558 was unsurprisingly. They knew it wasn't a very good op amp but it was very cheap and did the job, otherwise the TS would have been built with something better.
In my experience in any amp and pedal, the 4558 just sounds ratty and scuzzy. If I played punk rock I'm sure I would praise it, but I am an instrumentalist and metal guitarist.
Burr Brown has slightly more crunch than the rest. All the older chips sound slightly warmer. The modern ones are more clear or more treble/mid to the sound. Without an A/B comparison like this I'd never know
Have you tried RC4559DE? It is ceramic dip8 and it sounds really good(especially the mid-range) and I always replace the on-board ne5532 in dac with it~~
jrc and opa without engaging the diodes theuy sound so close and clean but with diodes its really hard to tell any difference
The diodes also are more compressed sounding, which is to be expected from clipping.
I could certainly hear differences between the various chips. In particular, the TL072 sounded thin/fizzy (not nice to my ears) and the Burr Brown sounded warm/round. The rest were somewhere in between. I too prefer the original MIJ JRC4558D. And yeah, whenever I build a TS circuit (the TS-10 is my fave) I always socket the IC and install a three-way clipping switch (diode lift in the center). That switch alone REALLY expands the usefulness of the pedal! I include an assortment of chips and most people prefer the 4558s.
Do you use silicon clipping diodes in one switch position, and germanium for the other? I had an EHX Soul Food (Klon clone) with the JHS meat and 3 mod. It has a 3 way switch for choosing 2 sets of clipping diodes, or no diode clipping. I tried 1S1588 diodes in it (the type used in the KoT) and it sounded a little different than what came from JHS. Germanium 1N34a diodes clip at a very low voltage, which corresponds with a more compressed, heavily clipped tone. I found that I generally preferred no clipping at all. The clean boost available from that pedal was impressive. It could still give some distortion from overdriving the op amp at high gain settings.
The JRC4558 definitely sounded better. The OPA2134PA was second. The 72 and 82 are probably exactly the same.. The differences would be lost in the mix but individually jamming at home. If you have a good ear you can tell the difference.
Really great comparison the way things should be done. Not much difference, although the OPA sounded nice in one instance, but it is too small differences to even notice. What you really should have done is compare them wrt to noise levels. It would have been helpful as the lowest noise chip in this case would have been the best choice as they otherwise sound basically the same. As an example if you swapped these chips in e.g. a vintage phaser you would hear use noise differences, and it could be annoying. So the noiseless would be the best option.
I'd wager that the biggest contributor to noise in analog based delays such as phasers is the bucket brigade IC.
can you show the schematic of the overdrive circuit
I wished you have played "No Matter What " riffs to demonstrate the subtle difference. But maybe it's just me
The TL082 and 72 sound a bit brighter than the old 4558. I bet you'd hear it more in higher frequencies too (try playing some higher notes). The slew rate is way different between the 2. The 4558 is like 1.7 V/us and a TL082 and 72 are about 13 V/us. The OPA is way overkill for this but will probably end up sounding similar to the TL072. All most my opinion (with a couple of numbers) ;)
The higher impedance FET inputs on the TLO and Burr Brown op amps probably have something to do with the different sound.
In my opinion that same at all they just buffer on that Tube screamer just change a lilbit of bass or treble if you want some different sound change the Diode guys 😊
Cool test. I guess it's an A/B/C/D/E test. Appreciate your objectivity. Great idea about the socketed PC-board. Sorry, I can't hear a bit of difference in the lot of them. My experience with op-amps is with signal conditioning for control circuits and data acquisition along with servo amplifiers. In those circuits the circuit elements really make the difference and the particular op-amp is usually transparent. (Isn't "transparency" the original design goal of the operational amplifier?)
You're exactly right - the Op-Amp doesn't do a huge amount other than cleanly boost the signal (usually into diodes) - so the differences are so small they're basically not worth worrying about.
My hifi amp jvc used njm 4558d but im change it opa 2134 bb. Now sound is better fast,clarity deep and nice 👍 i love burn brown
Good post dear friend thank you, maybe you should have also compared 4560, ne 5532.
Plenty of options - sadly, I didn't own them all!
People have been told over and over the vintage chip is better. In a blind shuffled around test they couldn't tell the difference, and would probably pick different chips several times probably based on a slight difference in your actual performance. The "circuit" is the important part!! I own dozens of screamers and they can have slight tolerance differences amongst identical models that have nothing to do with the chip. The chip is probably less than 1% of a difference maker because the chips are very similar in function, and have slight tolerance differences even amongst the same chips. Caps and resistors can change the feel even more, but circuit is King!!
Thank you for this ! EQ trumps op amp chip - ha!
Yeah, if you're a real cork sniffer, it might make a difference - but once you get on stage or in context with a band, no WAY are you going to hear a diff. Not enough to lose sleep over for sure.
With FET-based opamps the signal/noise-ratio will improve.
Then again: so will replacing carbon resistors with metal oxide precision resistors...
Spoken like a real musician that’s played real music in front of real people…..
Is it possible to use RC4558S? Because this one has 9 pins, and I don't know which one I could not use.
You have to eq your gear to focus on the relevant frequencies to hear the difference. Bridge pickup / lead tone.
When you switch diffrent op amp. Doe we have changethe circuit or just we can swap it?
I just swapped it and left everything the same. I show the socketed Op-Amp at the start of the video :-)
@@JoePerkinsMusic cool.
So if theres a circuit which uses jrc4558 or something can i just swap.it it another op amp? Or does it depends upon circuit
@@lordrahulcool
Lookup the 'pinout' for the existing chip and the one you want to use and that will tell you what you need to know. Most, if not all of the op amps you'd use, are a direct swap. The 4558 and 072 he used here, are directly interchangeable.
The TL072 seemed to have a bit better mid range resolution,very slightly,mostly they did sound the same,more tubey.
frankly, i can't hear any difference
if you grab a bunch of 72's and 4559's and A/B between themselfs you will find that the same happens as well. in the end its all in the mind.
4558 is the best, my opinion
Did you set up a blind test for yourself at all?
Maybe put the tracks on shuffle, record your screen, let 'em play 20 times or so, put check marks whenever one jumped out at you as sounding preferable, then go back and check if there was any pattern to your preferences?
I feel like a test like that would REALLY get some of the "magic op amp" folks questioning some of their financial decisions.
Hmm...can't say I'm too into blindfold tests, to be honest. A lot of people do them very well, but I prefer to present things as they are. Not saying never, though...might feel appropriate to do at some point!
@@JoePerkinsMusic oh, I didn't mean to present the video as a blind test for the viewer. I was just curious if you did one yourself as you were putting the video together or something. Nicely done overall though! It was a thorough comparison.
@@LukeSniper Oh I see! No, it'd be very hard to do that as I record the audio separately to the video - and especially with a video such as this, I need to label everything carefully so that I don't end up with 7 video & 7 audio clips floating around, and I don't know which is which! I think I'm usually fairly good at not listening with confirmation bias anyway :-)
Well, the tl072 is the op amp the creates most of the distortion in the bk butler tube driver
Great stuff
There is some debate over what were original opamps to the TS808.... some information reveals the Texas Instruments RC4558 is the actual original .... also... the original clipping diodes were Panasonic MA150 diodes... i dont know for sure about all that... but i can tell you once i swapped the diodes to the Panasonic MA150's and paired those with the TI opamp... my tube screamer is better than its ever been... not quite so mid spikey... way more musical... more articulation on the individual notes ... just a whole lot more fun hahahaha ... Blessings, Mark
So does this mean I can substitute a TL082CN instead of a TL072CN?
You can even sub a TL062 if you are worried about battery drain - but it does have worse specs. Just read the datasheets! If they have the same pinouts they can be swapped. Not "all" op-amps do though...
My fav is RC4558 in TS after my own test, but on stage there is no reason to care about what a chip. OPA sounds to me at best, but then TS sounds a bit different than TS:-)
BTW in fuller sounding OD there is difference, for example Zendrive (4558, OP2604, LM833). But sound filters in TS make chip differences for cork sniffers only imho.
Depending on the circuit the differences are not/barely noticeable
Use NE5532 its good too for opamp
5532P 5532D 4558DD 4558P 4556AD TL072 353D 833N 실험해봤는데 귀로 차이를 느낄 수 없었습니다.
OPA2134가 들어 있는 CDP도 들어 봤지만 4558이 내장된 CDP보다 좋다는 느낌을 받지
못했습니다. 비싼 부품이 들어 있는 전자 제품을 구입하는 것은
명품을 사는 심리와 비슷하다고 봅니다.
TL072 sounded as good as most and better than the supposedly good ones.
I would have to compare them in a live on stage loud performance ,,I own a ts 808 4558 and a sm metal dual 4558 I havent used either in years ,,just junk
I do use a KTR
Any diffs can be more than made up by eq, just like diffs between preamp tubes. There is no magic tubes or ICs.
Can i als9 use lm358 instead of these?
As far as I know, yes. Most 8 pin op amps should be interchangeable. Check the pinouts, if you're unsure; they're easily available on the internet.
@@springbloom5940 so lm358 is also dual op amp?
@@lordrahulcool
Correct
Ill try it.. thankyou ery much
Can tl074 replaces with lm324?
Otl082 e jrc4558 👏👏👏
vintage & BB almost sounded like the same(fat sounding). but I noticed a diff on TL08x and TL07x
👍
I agree the JRC was the best and sounded warmer, although I'd really like to do a blind listen test to these and see if it's just my preconceptions leaning me in that direction. But from this video I thought it was noticeably better than the very cheap op amps
Sill love the JRC4558D the most, I like RC4558P also.
Mike Marks Definitely has more low frequency response. Smoother to me because of that. Just my two cents. God Bless
With headphones the RC4558p sounds better for me
Totally inadequate how they sound...it's how they FEEL that matters, but it takes some decades of experience to sense that.
Just for the sake of argument... did you try this out with an amp that was not overdriven to begin the test? Some overdriven amps will not even allow one to hear the difference between guitars.
Out of the three amps, only the Cornell was slightly compressing - the other two had headroom to spare.
Joe Perkins ok! Thanks for replying.
I heard the rc4558 the brightest.All others sound very similar in tone however, I think the 082 was warmer than the 072. All sound just fine, very close but the rc4558. Sounded great too but that’s the one I think is more different, thighter bottom, more mids.
All 4558s are not the same. I have a first issue TS and I've tried various 4558s dd dx etc, and while they all sound similar and will work the 4558d is what works the best period.
Yeah I agree there was little difference & I also preferred the original chip....
I do agree the vintage rc4558cp has to me, a bit smoother sound than the others.
Gullible moron
TL082 sounds grainiers than others
The JRC had a little less low mids/bass and a little brighter upper mids. The TL and OP chips sounded a little more fat and muddy compared to the JRC. But, it’s like moving your amp controls 1-2 places either way. So, not huge.
I prefer the MC33178PG chip. It is more suitable for heavy music styles. By the way, such a chip uses Zakk Wylde in its nominal tube screamer. Produces a drier, overloaded, steroid sound.
The original JRC does sound smoother
If the audience wore headphones I don't think they would even hear a difference..
It simply so Microsonic it's not worth the trouble.
Anyone ever try CA3240, LF353, LM358, LM833 and NE5532?
Cheers from Indonesia
Yes. But not in a Tube Screamer. I've tried a bunch of different op amps in a King Of Tone, and after a lot of swapping around, I ended up with a JRC4580 in the red channel (same as a stock KoT) and an OPA2134 in the yellow channel, running both channels in "clean boost" mode (no diode clipping). The CA3240 came close to the OPA2134 but the Burr Brown had the least spitty distortion at high gain. I also run 18V instead of 9V, for more clean headroom and less compression. Both channels of my KoT are the "higher gain" version so there's more usable range on the gain pots, which Analog Mike recommends. Hurray for socketed op amps!
The better chip of all time have a name: JRC4558DV Glossy
yep
muses8920 test please!
4558 " scream"