This kind of content is so motivating. It doesn't produce an urge to play in me, but an urge to sit down, read, and study the game. Keep up the good work!
Awesome video and cool to see Soyza share his thoughts. However, as someone else said, this definitely seems like a coy brag rather than anything substantial. jamming pre prints and simplifies here so much. If you want to induce a light 4BJ that’s why we 3b an extremely polar range from BB in this spot. Now we get merge jammed by 66 which sucks. Of course if he sticks in A9o it’s great but you’re making layers of assumptions and hoping for a spaz. The logic was flawed at the end too. Ultimately the conclusion was AdKx is nut worst bluff catcher OTR given the flop x/x turn x/c line, as you only block bluffs. After that AxKd would likely be the worst. It’s arguable that like Ad7x/Ad6x is bad also holding Ad but blocking sets is too valuable to make them worse IMO, Ben also speaks of KQdx being a key example of Olé’s bluff candidates, especially with Kd because it blocks Bens slow plays like KTdd/K8dd/K4dd which Ben claims he would x flop with (I’m not sure if this is correct. PIO might x range in this spot specifically but generally we x our NFDs as we’ll have some SDV, but KTdd/K4dd have far less SDV losing to all Ax, and likely should be considered flop bets, while K8dd is a much more sensical flop x) But I digress. Point is Ben thinks Olé shares the meta and would want to bluff with KdXx combos as it blocks a few more Calls yet Ben blocks those combos with Kd and is now left with one of the worst bluff catchers. Ben tried to rationalise this call with PIO and excess combinatorics but ultimately it seems like it was “a fuck u ur prob over bluffing lol” call that was right, and so naturally Ben was inclined to be a bit results oriented and defend his line. That’s fine if the read on Ole is he over goes for it, or maybe there were timing tells, but that’s an exploit and not fundamentally correct. Michael was more reasonable about the analysis all the way through, Main takeaway is PIO stating that given IP range’s flop X at this SPR, having Ad on the river is actually bad bc we don’t block flushes (IP doesn’t have many when X) and we block all the bluffs. This is something that comes up intuitively but cool to see PIO confirm it
Great summary. I think if they would play this spot 100 times, and Ben calls this combo the majority of the time, he will loose ev VS gto player. The thing is, Ole is well known for beeing a blaster. I don't think he changed this in his game, so on average he will overbluff a bit, and it works great for him caus people still overfold certain spots. I think Ole will bluff some hands pio wouldn't, so this might make Ben's combo a better call. Anyways interesting hand and great discussion. Thx a lot both Ben and you for very good summarh
Your level of thinking is insane. Its no wonder you're one of the best. I thought a 47 minute video explaining this spot was way too long but it flew by. You both make so many important points and theres a lot of information to take in. A complicated spot but well worth listening to.
Amazing insight as usual! Even if the EV is marginal in this particular spot, understanding the thought processes top players go through to analyse where they are in a hand and how to proceed is gold dust. As a complete aside, Michael seems like a top bloke!
What a beast Ben is, Michael is right I think about fans liking your style of play wanting to be students. Seeing plays like this every once in a while is the best thing about poker. Who doesnt want to make a sick call like that!
Thank you Ben to bring this great content again and thanks to Michael! Great analyzes and a beautiful brainstorming between 2 minds. I also loved that you take into account that if the player is in a upswing or downswing. I would have never think about that I imagine! I wanna ask Ben, if you ever take into consideration Ole’s bet sizing here. Yes he goes all-in but, instead of going all the chips in, he just put the exact amount of your stack. Ok, it is practically the same thing but psychologically there is a difference isn't it? We are always discussing from the mathematical stand point but is there any merit of taking into the consideration to give some meaning on his bet sizing and maybe using this additional information while we make our very close/complexe decision (like the information of player's upswing/downswing) ? I actually take into consideration this kind of behavior/bet sizing while I make decisions. I don’t know if this information about the player will help me to make my decision than putting me in a guessing game, but I think if we know some tendencies about a specific player it's very valuable information. In this spot, is the precise bet sizing of Ole’s to go all-in, can mean that he is bluffing more or he is bluffing less while he does it ? After all, maybe you don’t want neither to give away on UA-cam some tendencies about a high stakes player, due to the respect that you give to him, and this would be totally understandable in this case : ) Thanks for everything Ben!
Super interesting analysis. I think there is a lot of merit to folding when you have the ace of diamonds in your hand. Also interesting about calling more vs opponents on an upswing, it's not something I'd considered. Thank you for this fantastic content!
Such a sick call, no matter what way you look at the ranges this is huge, in a 10k, you know this isn’t the hot $3.30, this is life changing calling, amazing content as always Ben GG NC
Thanks bencb, great discussion as always! If you were in Ole's shoes, would you consider bluffing AdQo or even AdJo on the flop? You were able to figure out he's unlikely to have the nut flush when he checks back the flop (and props on that). At first, it appears AdQo or AdJo would have good showdown value and should mostly check back the flop. However, it just seems like those hands are never going to be good against a BB 3 bet range, even when BB checks flop, especially on 876. Bluffing flop seems to have its merits and makes the river shove more credible if the flush completes. I'm curious to hear your thoughts if you have the time.
Sooo Interesting, as Soyza always Smiling!! So Great to hear all your thoughts about it!!! I'm agree with Soyza, Allin Preflop...avoid Post-flop with "Shemion" !!! Hahah
I love to see the thought proces on the river about blockers, but I'm not sure why you chose this hand to discuss. This is obviously a spot you'll never be in next time, because you'll jam of 3bet bigger. Nevertheless, always good to show some winning hero calls.
How bout c/s turn as played? Only getting crushed when he has Axdd, you can also make him fold Ad and have equity when he calls. I mean, how else would you play a non premium spot? Crazy spot...crazy play, but it's not really crazy
Bencb does however say that there are merids to both plays, and as usual it depends on your opponent. He also emphasises that even if you always jam that spot, you will still face the same boards with more big blinds.
The truth is the ev of small 3b here is that smt villain will just flat hands ure flipping vs or just marginal ahead. Meanwhile villain might not play well enough postflop and u gather more ev then. I think it's good to develop strategies that are not in line with the majority approach. Yeah 99% of players just jam here, but if u develop a well balanced small 3b strategie here, it will benefit u, caus people aren't prepared for these spots. That's where the ev is. Spots that people don't know what to do in.
Against Ole and the way this hand is played by check check on flop its a clear call on the river. I know oles game well and he would never check a pair or straight draw on the flop. So its very likely that he bets a flush draw on the turn even tho its like he can already have a flush. When the river comes and he jams its almost a flush or nothing. Because ole never has a 4 or 9 in a 3 bet flop. I guess 99s and 4s would he shove pleflop. And he would never jam a pair on the river because of showdown equity
seems like a hidden brag. just jam, that's printing, now you guys are talking for almost and 45min if this is the right play or not and you still disagree in the end on the bluff catch. the thought process, and therefore content, is nice though.
This kind of content is so motivating. It doesn't produce an urge to play in me, but an urge to sit down, read, and study the game. Keep up the good work!
Also very important! Thank you Lion!
Awesome video and cool to see Soyza share his thoughts.
However, as someone else said, this definitely seems like a coy brag rather than anything substantial. jamming pre prints and simplifies here so much. If you want to induce a light 4BJ that’s why we 3b an extremely polar range from BB in this spot. Now we get merge jammed by 66 which sucks. Of course if he sticks in A9o it’s great but you’re making layers of assumptions and hoping for a spaz.
The logic was flawed at the end too. Ultimately the conclusion was AdKx is nut worst bluff catcher OTR given the flop x/x turn x/c line, as you only block bluffs. After that AxKd would likely be the worst. It’s arguable that like Ad7x/Ad6x is bad also holding Ad but blocking sets is too valuable to make them worse IMO,
Ben also speaks of KQdx being a key example of Olé’s bluff candidates, especially with Kd because it blocks Bens slow plays like KTdd/K8dd/K4dd which Ben claims he would x flop with (I’m not sure if this is correct. PIO might x range in this spot specifically but generally we x our NFDs as we’ll have some SDV, but KTdd/K4dd have far less SDV losing to all Ax, and likely should be considered flop bets, while K8dd is a much more sensical flop x)
But I digress. Point is Ben thinks Olé shares the meta and would want to bluff with KdXx combos as it blocks a few more Calls yet Ben blocks those combos with Kd and is now left with one of the worst bluff catchers. Ben tried to rationalise this call with PIO and excess combinatorics but ultimately it seems like it was “a fuck u ur prob over bluffing lol” call that was right, and so naturally Ben was inclined to be a bit results oriented and defend his line. That’s fine if the read on Ole is he over goes for it, or maybe there were timing tells, but that’s an exploit and not fundamentally correct. Michael was more reasonable about the analysis all the way through,
Main takeaway is PIO stating that given IP range’s flop X at this SPR, having Ad on the river is actually bad bc we don’t block flushes (IP doesn’t have many when X) and we block all the bluffs. This is something that comes up intuitively but cool to see PIO confirm it
Great summary. I think if they would play this spot 100 times, and Ben calls this combo the majority of the time, he will loose ev VS gto player. The thing is, Ole is well known for beeing a blaster. I don't think he changed this in his game, so on average he will overbluff a bit, and it works great for him caus people still overfold certain spots. I think Ole will bluff some hands pio wouldn't, so this might make Ben's combo a better call. Anyways interesting hand and great discussion. Thx a lot both Ben and you for very good summarh
Your level of thinking is insane. Its no wonder you're one of the best. I thought a 47 minute video explaining this spot was way too long but it flew by. You both make so many important points and theres a lot of information to take in. A complicated spot but well worth listening to.
glad you like it
I’m not nearly good enough for this spot to feel complicated 😂
Listening to 2 excellent Poker players not agreeing on everything shows that Poker still has beautiful years to come 🙏🏻 such great content
Amazing insight as usual! Even if the EV is marginal in this particular spot, understanding the thought processes top players go through to analyse where they are in a hand and how to proceed is gold dust. As a complete aside, Michael seems like a top bloke!
Love this kind of content!
Thank you Alex, be sure to also check out the other hand reviews we did!
Raise Your Edge I have probably watched all of them and allways will. Hope to be as good as you someday
just "WOW"! thats HIGH Value Content right there! Thank you so much!!
You are very welcome!
What a beast Ben is, Michael is right I think about fans liking your style of play wanting to be students. Seeing plays like this every once in a while is the best thing about poker. Who doesnt want to make a sick call like that!
Thank you Ben to bring this great content again and thanks to Michael!
Great analyzes and a beautiful brainstorming between 2 minds.
I also loved that you take into account that if the player is in a upswing or downswing. I would have never think about that I imagine!
I wanna ask Ben, if you ever take into consideration Ole’s bet sizing here. Yes he goes all-in but, instead of going all the chips in, he just put the exact amount of your stack. Ok, it is practically the same thing but psychologically there is a difference isn't it?
We are always discussing from the mathematical stand point but is there any merit of taking into the consideration to give some meaning on his bet sizing and maybe using this additional information while we make our very close/complexe decision (like the information of player's upswing/downswing) ? I actually take into consideration this kind of behavior/bet sizing while I make decisions. I don’t know if this information about the player will help me to make my decision than putting me in a guessing game, but I think if we know some tendencies about a specific player it's very valuable information. In this spot, is the precise bet sizing of Ole’s to go all-in, can mean that he is bluffing more or he is bluffing less while he does it ?
After all, maybe you don’t want neither to give away on UA-cam some tendencies about a high stakes player, due to the respect that you give to him, and this would be totally understandable in this case : )
Thanks for everything Ben!
Nice hand, much aprreciated for the input :)
Glad you liked it!
Agree with ben that players bluff more when on uppswing.
Super interesting analysis. I think there is a lot of merit to folding when you have the ace of diamonds in your hand. Also interesting about calling more vs opponents on an upswing, it's not something I'd considered.
Thank you for this fantastic content!
No bs, I saw the thumbnail and thought instantly, looks like a spot where ace high is good.
Such a sick call, no matter what way you look at the ranges this is huge, in a 10k, you know this isn’t the hot $3.30, this is life changing calling, amazing content as always Ben GG NC
Thanks bencb, great discussion as always!
If you were in Ole's shoes, would you consider bluffing AdQo or even AdJo on the flop? You were able to figure out he's unlikely to have the nut flush when he checks back the flop (and props on that).
At first, it appears AdQo or AdJo would have good showdown value and should mostly check back the flop. However, it just seems like those hands are never going to be good against a BB 3 bet range, even when BB checks flop, especially on 876. Bluffing flop seems to have its merits and makes the river shove more credible if the flush completes.
I'm curious to hear your thoughts if you have the time.
If you jam AKo pre here in this spot, Schemion probably calls w the AQo right?
yes
Gotta triple merge your check raising range on monotone paired boards with AKo
The good old triple merge!
This is so good. Great content, Michael Soyza is such an interesting player. Awesome call too!
He is awesome!
Sooo Interesting, as Soyza always Smiling!! So Great to hear all your thoughts about it!!! I'm agree with Soyza, Allin Preflop...avoid Post-flop with "Shemion" !!! Hahah
Soyza is an awesome guy!
Is calling the initial 3-bet w J10s a massive blunder? Ben said himself the BB range should be something like QQ+ and should not be overbluffed
I love to see the thought proces on the river about blockers, but I'm not sure why you chose this hand to discuss. This is obviously a spot you'll never be in next time, because you'll jam of 3bet bigger. Nevertheless, always good to show some winning hero calls.
Love this content 2 pros analysing a tough spot , best of luck on Thursday hope you take it down man
It will continue on Saturday, but thank you David!
Is villain supposed to defend low connectors like 87s, 98s preflop against 30bb 3bet from big blind?
Against this sizing absolutely. That's why 3.5-4x would have been better.
what a guest, really nice Sir SOyza
How bout c/s turn as played?
Only getting crushed when he has Axdd, you can also make him fold Ad and have equity when he calls. I mean, how else would you play a non premium spot? Crazy spot...crazy play, but it's not really crazy
What a crazy hand! Anda what a deep thought! Deserved like!
Thank you Alex!
this is just a jam pre... solver wouldn't 3b it small pre and you didn't really give any good reasons for doing it either
Bencb does however say that there are merids to both plays, and as usual it depends on your opponent. He also emphasises that even if you always jam that spot, you will still face the same boards with more big blinds.
The truth is the ev of small 3b here is that smt villain will just flat hands ure flipping vs or just marginal ahead. Meanwhile villain might not play well enough postflop and u gather more ev then. I think it's good to develop strategies that are not in line with the majority approach. Yeah 99% of players just jam here, but if u develop a well balanced small 3b strategie here, it will benefit u, caus people aren't prepared for these spots. That's where the ev is. Spots that people don't know what to do in.
I watched this ENTIRE video and thought to myself "WOAHHHH, THIS IS COMPLICATED!!!!!!"
Luckily not every spot is so complicated!
At the end he say as "Pat's says" or paz ???
Pads, patrick Leonard
Against Ole and the way this hand is played by check check on flop its a clear call on the river. I know oles game well and he would never check a pair or straight draw on the flop. So its very likely that he bets a flush draw on the turn even tho its like he can already have a flush. When the river comes and he jams its almost a flush or nothing. Because ole never has a 4 or 9 in a 3 bet flop. I guess 99s and 4s would he shove pleflop. And he would never jam a pair on the river because of showdown equity
what a discussion! two bosses!!!
Almost hour for 1 hand.. how deep can poker be?
Great stuff!
Glad you enjoyed it!
2:00 Go all in. Easy. Next video.
Would that mean he wears no underwear?
And then you try this in big 11$ and villan always show flush or fullhouse. 😂
seems like a hidden brag. just jam, that's printing, now you guys are talking for almost and 45min if this is the right play or not and you still disagree in the end on the bluff catch. the thought process, and therefore content, is nice though.
soyzas point with spr playing postflop is very akward
and bens point to induce 4bet jams when 3betting bigger - are good facts
Chat pros don't appreciate thought process 😂
Truth!
I know nobody will believe me but i would have called this.
I believe you!
This would be the most difficult spot if both players had 50bb
Dont try this at home..LMAO
47min in one hand is too much for me to wathc
then dont watch :D