Great video, it's always fun to see experimentation! I posted about this on reddit about 3 months ago after my house was very warm while wiping stamps this summer, so the freezer made a HUGE difference (this was my first summer with disc dyeing as a hobby). Though, I'm sure others have found the freezer independently of me. You are right about the foil backing stopping the dispersion of the dyes into the plastic. It's better to think about phases of matter than "pores" when it comes to the dyes getting into the plastic. Dyeing is like putting a drop of food coloring into water, but in very slow motion. Heat increases that motion, but no food coloring enters the water when it is frozen solid. No dye enters the disc after dissolving it in acetone if the disc is frozen solid. If you imagine trying to "wipe off" a drop of red food coloring from an ice cube vs. a glass of water, it's easy to see how one is going to work a lot better than the other. On these discs, the red stamp is already in the "water" (plastic solution) prior to any freezing, so there's not much you can do about it. If Kastaplast had stamped them while frozen, and shipped them frozen, and then you immediately went to wipe them, then they may have wiped clean. The foil stays as a solid barrier like the ice, so that's why discs with foil backing can wipe clean. When the plastic is warm enough, it becomes more liquid-like (plastics don't have sharp phase transitions like water does), and acetone softens it so that is even more liquid-like. Any dye dissolved in the acetone quickly enters the soft plastic and gets stuck, just like the red dye that has already slowly dispersed in too deep for you to remove. Depending on the dye's chemistry and the plastic's chemistry, they will continue to disperse to create "fading" causing blurred edges on previously sharp lines, or even moving the whole way through the flight plate. From reading up on TPU plastic, temperature is more important than solvent. This bit from a TPU manufacturer on solvent says acetone does swell TPU more than alcohol (solutions.covestro.com/en/highlights/articles/theme/product-technology/chemical-properties-tpu). Given hot dips in water will still dye a disc fast, the softening of the plastic from heat seems like the biggest concern for wiping stamps. So if the acetone is harder on the disc than you'd like, you can try scrubbing with freezing and using alcohol instead of acetone. Depending on dye chemistry and what additives, etc. are in the polymer matrix of the disc, you will see a variety of dispersion rates independent of temperature (but all rates seem to increase with temperature). Plastics like Gstar and softer tend to disperse faster than harder premium plastics (the difference may just be TPU with less plasticizer vs. TPU with more plasticizer). Dyes like ProChem tend to disperse faster than alcohol-based dyes like from a Sharpie. A dye that covalently bonds to the polymer would not disperse significantly, but I don't think I've encountered a disc dye that works this way, as that would take a lot more work chemically that would result in a product offering less color options that is more work to use. Pigments added during the disc-making process are particle-based, and should be too large to disperse. Pigments are also how white is added (pigments can be white, while dyes can't), and are why discs can't be dyed white. If discs' plastics had pores, pigments would be able to enter them.
Cotton make up removal pads damage (scratch) the surface of the disc way less than paper towels. I'm definitely going to try freezing my discs going forward. Thanks for testing all these methods, so I didn't have to!
Thank you for this! The matte finish is always rough, but the frozen disc trick has saved me many times! I'm glad you used red stamps on white. Definitely seems to be the worst combo for bleeding
Thanks for the info. I would recommend in the future to re-cap the plastic bottles as to avoid spilling the solutions contained within. It would also cut down on the fumes. Keep up the great work! It was fun visiting the DDG both at USDGC a few weeks ago. Thanks for all that you do
Yep, you're totally not wrong about capping. Waned to have the solution ready as fast as I could if I needed more when doing the test. Thanks for stopping by and the kind words!
I don't wipe stamps often, and when I do it tends to be to modify the stamp or remove sections of it rather than remove it entirely. When I do I use acetone but instead of wiping the whole disc with paper towel I try to just focus on the stamp itself using Qtips with the acetone in them instead of acetone on paper towel on the whole disc. It reduces the are that acetone is affecting the disc itself, doesn't spread the color to areas the stamp isn't already on, and cotton of the Qtips seem to be less abrasive in general. It definitely takes longer but with how fast acetone rips stamps off it isn't that much longer, when considering the end results. I will definitely be freezing my discs as well from now on though. Thanks for the testing it is always good to see people try to pin down a definitive best method with all the different recommendations out there.
Do you think the coarseness of the shop towel itself could be contributing to the "matte" effect of some discs being wiped? I use a combination of cotton balls and cotton round pads with the frozen-acetone wipe method. Bonus trick - it's good to have baby wipes around if you see some colored acetone you want off the disc. In fact I use TONS more baby wipes dying discs than I did when my now 30 year old baby was an actual baby.
I do not think the shop towel has anything to do with the "matte" ness of the disc, but the solution being used. I have tried with a cotton ball and cotton round when I first started and the disc still felt the same.
I've used acetone and a melamine sponge mixed together instead of using paper towel and had good results now freezing the disc with that might have the best results
I'll have to test, but feel like it's be the same as wiping with a paper towel, at least speed wise as it's so fast anyways. Just hate the way the disc feels after using acetone, really matte and tacky.
Choosing the red Kastaplast stamp ... bold move Cotton, we're gonna have to see how this works out for him (I personally gave up on removing these particular stamps and just work with them)
Microfiber towel covering whole disc, then pour saturate with acetone, let sit for 10-15 seconds, then quickly wipe and remove. I typically call it the saturation method. Never have really had any bleed issues.
I accidentally removed a stamp off a white R-Pro Pig with a black stamp with Comet, just trying to clean up the disc a bit. I'm pretty sure it won't work on most discs, but it may be worth a shot.
I've been using goof-off for the year I have been dying and I haven't done any damage to the discs with it. They are almost always the same texture and gloss, however, it does bleed colors like a son of a bitch so you got to be careful. I typically just avoid all reddish hues on stamps all together.
I was kind of shocked that Goof Off was about the same "damage" to the disc as acetone, at least in my testing in the video. And it's not horrible, but can definitely tell a difference from the top flight plate to the bottom of the disc.
@@dyersguild I've had the best luck with silver and gold by far. Colors seem to bleed. Red and pink are the worst for me on any plastic. Freezing helps a HUGE amount though.
![I Got Coached by 1 of the FARTHEST THROWERS IN THE WORLD! [feat. @NickKrush.DGandFit ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hnWaPJF_etU/mqdefault.jpg)
Great video, it's always fun to see experimentation!
I posted about this on reddit about 3 months ago after my house was very warm while wiping stamps this summer, so the freezer made a HUGE difference (this was my first summer with disc dyeing as a hobby). Though, I'm sure others have found the freezer independently of me. You are right about the foil backing stopping the dispersion of the dyes into the plastic.
It's better to think about phases of matter than "pores" when it comes to the dyes getting into the plastic. Dyeing is like putting a drop of food coloring into water, but in very slow motion. Heat increases that motion, but no food coloring enters the water when it is frozen solid. No dye enters the disc after dissolving it in acetone if the disc is frozen solid. If you imagine trying to "wipe off" a drop of red food coloring from an ice cube vs. a glass of water, it's easy to see how one is going to work a lot better than the other. On these discs, the red stamp is already in the "water" (plastic solution) prior to any freezing, so there's not much you can do about it. If Kastaplast had stamped them while frozen, and shipped them frozen, and then you immediately went to wipe them, then they may have wiped clean. The foil stays as a solid barrier like the ice, so that's why discs with foil backing can wipe clean.
When the plastic is warm enough, it becomes more liquid-like (plastics don't have sharp phase transitions like water does), and acetone softens it so that is even more liquid-like. Any dye dissolved in the acetone quickly enters the soft plastic and gets stuck, just like the red dye that has already slowly dispersed in too deep for you to remove. Depending on the dye's chemistry and the plastic's chemistry, they will continue to disperse to create "fading" causing blurred edges on previously sharp lines, or even moving the whole way through the flight plate.
From reading up on TPU plastic, temperature is more important than solvent. This bit from a TPU manufacturer on solvent says acetone does swell TPU more than alcohol (solutions.covestro.com/en/highlights/articles/theme/product-technology/chemical-properties-tpu). Given hot dips in water will still dye a disc fast, the softening of the plastic from heat seems like the biggest concern for wiping stamps. So if the acetone is harder on the disc than you'd like, you can try scrubbing with freezing and using alcohol instead of acetone.
Depending on dye chemistry and what additives, etc. are in the polymer matrix of the disc, you will see a variety of dispersion rates independent of temperature (but all rates seem to increase with temperature). Plastics like Gstar and softer tend to disperse faster than harder premium plastics (the difference may just be TPU with less plasticizer vs. TPU with more plasticizer). Dyes like ProChem tend to disperse faster than alcohol-based dyes like from a Sharpie. A dye that covalently bonds to the polymer would not disperse significantly, but I don't think I've encountered a disc dye that works this way, as that would take a lot more work chemically that would result in a product offering less color options that is more work to use. Pigments added during the disc-making process are particle-based, and should be too large to disperse. Pigments are also how white is added (pigments can be white, while dyes can't), and are why discs can't be dyed white. If discs' plastics had pores, pigments would be able to enter them.
Wow, very informative and makes total sense! I like the "disc is water" but slower analogy.
Cotton make up removal pads damage (scratch) the surface of the disc way less than paper towels. I'm definitely going to try freezing my discs going forward. Thanks for testing all these methods, so I didn't have to!
The only disc that had ever so slight scratches was the one wiped with Acetone. And that's if you're looking hard.
Thank you for this! The matte finish is always rough, but the frozen disc trick has saved me many times! I'm glad you used red stamps on white. Definitely seems to be the worst combo for bleeding
Didn't realize how bad the red stamps were going to be...
Thanks for the info.
I would recommend in the future to re-cap the plastic bottles as to avoid spilling the solutions contained within. It would also cut down on the fumes.
Keep up the great work!
It was fun visiting the DDG both at USDGC a few weeks ago. Thanks for all that you do
Yep, you're totally not wrong about capping. Waned to have the solution ready as fast as I could if I needed more when doing the test. Thanks for stopping by and the kind words!
Your thumbnail couldn't be any more interesting. Well done!
Thanks Mr! While fire is dangerous, it was fun to play with lol
I don't wipe stamps often, and when I do it tends to be to modify the stamp or remove sections of it rather than remove it entirely. When I do I use acetone but instead of wiping the whole disc with paper towel I try to just focus on the stamp itself using Qtips with the acetone in them instead of acetone on paper towel on the whole disc. It reduces the are that acetone is affecting the disc itself, doesn't spread the color to areas the stamp isn't already on, and cotton of the Qtips seem to be less abrasive in general. It definitely takes longer but with how fast acetone rips stamps off it isn't that much longer, when considering the end results. I will definitely be freezing my discs as well from now on though. Thanks for the testing it is always good to see people try to pin down a definitive best method with all the different recommendations out there.
I haven't tried wiping part of a stamp yet and thanks for the kind words!
Do you think the coarseness of the shop towel itself could be contributing to the "matte" effect of some discs being wiped? I use a combination of cotton balls and cotton round pads with the frozen-acetone wipe method. Bonus trick - it's good to have baby wipes around if you see some colored acetone you want off the disc. In fact I use TONS more baby wipes dying discs than I did when my now 30 year old baby was an actual baby.
I do not think the shop towel has anything to do with the "matte" ness of the disc, but the solution being used. I have tried with a cotton ball and cotton round when I first started and the disc still felt the same.
I hope you had good ventilation there!
Had a 6" 390 CFM exhaust fan going with fresh air coming in the entire time.
That’s all I could think about while watching this video. Oh, and the lack of gloves. For me, gloves are an essential part of the wiping process.
I've used acetone and a melamine sponge mixed together instead of using paper towel and had good results now freezing the disc with that might have the best results
I'll have to test, but feel like it's be the same as wiping with a paper towel, at least speed wise as it's so fast anyways. Just hate the way the disc feels after using acetone, really matte and tacky.
Choosing the red Kastaplast stamp ... bold move Cotton, we're gonna have to see how this works out for him (I personally gave up on removing these particular stamps and just work with them)
Yeah, honestly was not my first choice, but glad I did get these for this test.
great info!
Thanks man!
Microfiber towel covering whole disc, then pour saturate with acetone, let sit for 10-15 seconds, then quickly wipe and remove. I typically call it the saturation method. Never have really had any bleed issues.
This is one thing I totally want to test as I've heard a few people do this.
Kasta makes a tough stamp.
Freeze the disc, acetone and cotton balls wipe the disc and color completely, doesn't smudge or haze either when frozen.
I can smell this video
I still smell this video...
I accidentally removed a stamp off a white R-Pro Pig with a black stamp with Comet, just trying to clean up the disc a bit. I'm pretty sure it won't work on most discs, but it may be worth a shot.
Interesting, haven't heard using that before!
I've been using goof-off for the year I have been dying and I haven't done any damage to the discs with it. They are almost always the same texture and gloss, however, it does bleed colors like a son of a bitch so you got to be careful. I typically just avoid all reddish hues on stamps all together.
I was kind of shocked that Goof Off was about the same "damage" to the disc as acetone, at least in my testing in the video. And it's not horrible, but can definitely tell a difference from the top flight plate to the bottom of the disc.
I guess the moral of this story is to avoid using red stamped Kastaplast discs. Or black stamped. (For that matter, red stamped Discraft too)
Welp, if you don't want a burnt/dyed stamp, yes... I'd be curious to test other colors and stamp types.
@@dyersguild I've had the best luck with silver and gold by far. Colors seem to bleed. Red and pink are the worst for me on any plastic. Freezing helps a HUGE amount though.
@@shroder1 I feel like metallic foils seem to be best to wipe and have the least bleeding.
Kastaplast black is rough. I’ve had trouble with green on Discraft discs. Freezer helped.
You forgot lacquer thinner
You are correct. No one suggested that when I asked, but might have to do a little side quest.
Can’t believe you’re not using gloves! And maybe a respirator.
Was worried glove may melt with some of the solutions. And I had a 390 CFM exhaust fan going and fresh air coming in... But yeah...lol
No gloves? Bad boy.