I’ll just drop all the evidence I found of FB Ichigo and FB Shini Ichigo being stronger than his FKT self….long comment I admit but here Evidence for Fullbring Ichigo being stronger than FKT Ichigo 1.) Tsukishima who inserted himself into the past and fought at the very least 4th Fusion Aizen alongside Dangai Ichigo said that Ichigo’s Fullbring was getting close to his previous Shinigami powers and eventually surpassed it 2.) Ginjo said that Ichigo unlocking his Complete FB transcended Shinigami powers in the fan translation and surpassed Shinigami power in the official translation. And again, Ginjo and Tsukishima are aware of at the very least Dangai Ichigo, most likely aware of Mugetsu as well 3.) Yhwach didn’t just say that Ichigo regained his Shinigami powers, in the panel that showed Ginjo, meaning during the Fullbring Arc, Yhwach specifically said that Ichigo *regained the elevated power used to defeat Sosuke Aizen* which specifically is in reference to the Mugetsu 4.) In the Death Saves the Strawberry novel, Urahara said he created the blade that Rukia used to restore Ichigo’s powers in the FB Arc specifically to bring Ichigo back to the exact level of power he had before he lost them. Which is why he had all of the Gotei’s strongest members and himself, Isshin, Yoruichi etc pour their power into the blade, and that power stacked on top of Ichigo’s Fullbring. You might say ‘Urahara has no idea how strong Dangai/Mugetsu Ichigo and Aizen were as they couldn’t be sensed’, but A.) It’s confirmed that the substitute badge was monitoring Ichigo’s power even during the Aizen battle, so even if they couldn’t sense it, they could measure his power in numbers and B.) Mayuri who’s an inferior scientist to Urahara was able to create technology that could seal and restrain TYBW Aizen who’s stronger than FKT Aizen 5.) The Substitute Badge that serves as a catalyst for Ichigo’s fullbting was stated in both the anime and manga to have absorbed and taken in Ichigo’s reiatsu throughout all of his battles that he had it in. And the anime goes out of its way to show Ichigo going into Mugetsu when Ginjo is explaining that the Gotei used the badge to monitor his power. So the badge which the Fullbring uses as a catalyst for its power has Ichigo’s Mugetsu tier reiatsu as a part of it, which fits in with the previous points 6.) In CFYOW, Ginjo who didn’t get any stronger and didn’t do any training himself besides training Ganju, was stated to be able to kill Hikone by Tokinada, was stated to be able to fight him without trickery head on by the narrator, and was stated by Tokinada to have the raw power to become the Soul King right then and there and change or destroy the world (meaning the Bleach cosmology in context) as he sees fit. Hikone is someone that the novel mentions post TYBW Aizen, who passively gets stronger and would be stronger than he was in the TYBW who was already stronger than his max power in the FKT Arc….would need to be serious to defeat Hikone This isn’t the rage/emotion amped Ginjo who scales to True Bankai Ichigo’s Getsuga that killed Yhwach, but Bankai Ginjo. So Bankai Ginjo > the Soul King and is somewhat relative to TYBW Aizen stat wise. This same Ginjo was relative to FB Bankai Ichigo until he got mentally nerfed and wavered. So both Bankai Ginjo and FB Bankai Ichigo scale somewhat relative to TYBW Aizen physical stat wise and scale at bare minimum to Hikone/Above the weakened Soul King The databook stated that 4th Fusion Aizen was = to the Soul King and 5th Fusion Aizen surpassed him. 5th Fusion Aizen was weaker than Dangai Ichigo, but in the same ‘dimension’ as him as he was able to harm him So again, FB Bankai Ichigo and Ginjo scale to these beyond Soul King level powers. And then scaling near TYBW Aizen isn’t inconsistent as TYBW Ichigo is ridiculously above TYBW Aizen stat wise. SK Yhwach was able to put a hole in Aizen by simply stretching his arm out in his direction, absolutely shredding his durability while Aizen couldn’t damage him with a Hado 99. And Yhwach’s darkness spiritual energy waves one shotted Aizen. Ichigo tanked a bunch of those darkness energy waves from Yhwach and with just his True Bankai and not using any abilities besides Getsuga and a regular slash, was able to one shot SK Yhwach twice So the Fullbring forms scale above Dangai and Mugetsu but below True Shikai/Bankai/HoS. And if you say it’s inconsistent for Ichigo not one shotting Quilge, post timeskip Ichigo in character holds back a ridiculous amount of strength and doesn’t go all out unless needed. He held back against the Hollow-Quincy just before and didn’t just blitz and one shot. Same for Quilge. He went all out against the Jail which is impervious to damage from non Quincy, and then while weakened, injured and exhausted from eating his own Getsuga explosions to the face, he went all out against Yhwach. Another example of how much Ichigo was either held back or nerfed…FB Bankai Ichigo while only relying on his own physical power and not the power of him…without his full Shihakusho and without his zanpakuto spirits together amping each other was able to blitz Kirinji and break his hand after just recovering from the springs. This same Kirinji was able to outspeed and ‘kill’ Jugram in direct 1 on 1 combat. But prior to this, we see Ichigo who has his own physical power + more of his Shihakusho + both of his Zan spirits amping him + a rage amp + bloodlusted…..but weakened injured and exhausted from spamming Getsuga’s to try and get out of the Jail….got outsped and his Bankai snapped by a casual Jugram. Yet a fully recovered Ichigo without any of those amps and just fully healed blitzed and broke the hand of the guy that could kill a serious Jugram. Then True Shikai Ichigo never went all out in any battle he fought in until he fought Yhwach the final time, suppressing himself enough so that the Quincy girls could take multiple hits from him or that Askin could get him with hax The difference between True Shikai Ichigo and the Quincy girls is bigger than the difference between FB Shikai/Bankai Ichigo and Quilge so he doesn’t have anti feats 7.) Dangai Ichigo isn’t a special form. It’s just Ichigo with 3 months of training and understanding both of his zanpakuto spirits better. Unless you think that when Ichigo regained his Shinigami powers in the FB Arc, he forgot those lessons he learned from those 3 months with his zanpakuto spirits, he would at least be stronger than Dangai Ichigo. You could argue he’s not stronger than Mugetsu based on that but the rest of the evidence says otherwise. All of the anti feats could be explained as characters holding back…like Tsukishima who scales to FB Ichigo stomping Byakuya, but then leaving himself open and lowering his defenses on purpose which is the only way Byakuya killed him, or Base Ginjo seeming to only to scale to Tsukishima and Complete FB Ichigo and not seeming strong, but in the novel he goes from casually toying with Grimmjow in Base to almost one shotting Tokinada in Base, when Tokinada was giving a squad of people like Kyoraku, Yoruichi, and other high level captains and Sternritters trouble by himself 8.) Shonen power progression is a thing. It’s a very consistent thing in battle Shonen that the villains and main villain of the following arc is stronger than the previous arc. Aside from all the evidence I dropped above from the manga, anime and canon novels….the literal narrative point of the arc was for Ichigo to not just regain his powers, but regain the level of power he had before, which is what Kubo was clearly portraying with them comparing his power to what it once was, Kubo outright showing they have knowledge of transcendent Aizen and Dangai Ichigo tier beings, the post timeskip Gotei having technology that can analyze and suppress that tier of energy etc…I get why people reading/watching the arc at face value don’t understand the scaling implications and it does take looking into the anime/manga more deeply and the novels which most people don’t care for but Kubo clearly had shonen power progression making the main enemies of Ichigo for this arc stronger than the last arc like he did with literally every other arc
@@justwind6930 You are ignoring what I said in the video and why I say it’s Mugetus. As I said and showed in the video, there’s multiple statements in reference to FB shikai and FB bankai Ichigo being relative if not stronger than Mugutsu. IE: The Yhwach statement.
@@subject8938 i also can give the reference and manga panel if you want to see it, bc in terms of feat mugetsu is better than fullbring ichigo. Also i surprised that you can see it clearly that yhwach statement is refering to fullbring bc kubo clearly draw fullbring ichigo on that line, but everyone else think that its refer to "true" shikai ichigo, which is very funny bc it just fanfic, true shikai never exist.
@@justwind6930you can definitely say that Mugutus has better stand alone feats or pieces of scaling but considering what we have, all it would do is up scale FB Shikai/Bankai Ichigo. And I thought it was pretty obvious that Kubo put in a picture of Ginjo. It’s just that the speech bubbles was in front of it.
@@subject8938The statements you are referencing only address Ichigo's Shinigami abilities; at no point was Mugetsu mentioned. Additionally, it makes no sense. In the TYBW, Aizen’s level is shown to be capable of keeping up with the Soul King-infused Yhwach, in a manner that scales to true Shikai Ichigo, which is far beyond Fullbring Ichigo. Urahara notes that TYBW Aizen probably only got stronger since his fight with Ichigo, and since there is doubt, he can’t be that much stronger. Additionally, Mugetsu itself is a fusion of Ichigo’s Shinigami, Hollow, and Quincy powers, amplified by his sacrifice, as shown when Ichigo learned it. This fusion is akin to Lezt Stil and a pseudo-true Shikai, not just Shinigami abilities, which makes all those statements moot. Since they only reference Shinigami abilities, even if they didn't know about Ichigo's Quincy powers, they at least knew about his Hollow powers, so no mention means it doesn’t refer to Mugetsu.Since it's a hybrid power. Plus the scaling makes zero sense. Furthermore, Ichigo is shown to be captain-level in the TYBW, as evidenced by his fight against a Sternritter who is also captain-level. Although Ichigo was stronger, it was still a fight.While base aizen one shots bankai captains. Yes, characters got stronger, but Urahara, despite not showing any increase in strength, remains clearly captain-level. So, they can’t be that much stronger. Mugetsu has so much Reiatsu that it literally took physical form, which we only see with true Shikai Ichigo, and even then, only to a lesser extent. The panel suggesting that Ichigo regained his powers and defeated Aizen when he fought Ginjo also suggests that he defeated Aizen just after the cocoon state, not even Butterflizen, since that’s the Aizen depicted. This is clearly not true; therefore, the images can’t be taken literally. The panel you mentioned has Tsushima saying that Ichigo's power is closer to what it once was, meaning his Fullbring got stronger. Not that it was encroaching on Mugetsu. Ginjo’s statement suggests his Fullbring powers would fuse with his Shinigami ones, allowing him to surpass his previous Shinigami abilities. Just Shinigami. There’s no reference to Mugetsu, which is a hybrid power.
@@justwind6930It is his true Shikai. Previously, Old Man Zangetsu suppressed his powers, and he wasn't using an Asuchi, which is needed for a true Zanpakutō. Only after his time at the Royal Palace did he gain his Shikai. Hence, his true Shikai, since previous versions were fake. You are right that Fullbring Ichigo doesn't scale to Mugetsu though.
w video bro you earned a sub!
I’ll just drop all the evidence I found of FB Ichigo and FB Shini Ichigo being stronger than his FKT self….long comment I admit but here
Evidence for Fullbring Ichigo being stronger than FKT Ichigo
1.) Tsukishima who inserted himself into the past and fought at the very least 4th Fusion Aizen alongside Dangai Ichigo said that Ichigo’s Fullbring was getting close to his previous Shinigami powers and eventually surpassed it
2.) Ginjo said that Ichigo unlocking his Complete FB transcended Shinigami powers in the fan translation and surpassed Shinigami power in the official translation. And again, Ginjo and Tsukishima are aware of at the very least Dangai Ichigo, most likely aware of Mugetsu as well
3.) Yhwach didn’t just say that Ichigo regained his Shinigami powers, in the panel that showed Ginjo, meaning during the Fullbring Arc, Yhwach specifically said that Ichigo *regained the elevated power used to defeat Sosuke Aizen* which specifically is in reference to the Mugetsu
4.) In the Death Saves the Strawberry novel, Urahara said he created the blade that Rukia used to restore Ichigo’s powers in the FB Arc specifically to bring Ichigo back to the exact level of power he had before he lost them. Which is why he had all of the Gotei’s strongest members and himself, Isshin, Yoruichi etc pour their power into the blade, and that power stacked on top of Ichigo’s Fullbring.
You might say ‘Urahara has no idea how strong Dangai/Mugetsu Ichigo and Aizen were as they couldn’t be sensed’, but A.) It’s confirmed that the substitute badge was monitoring Ichigo’s power even during the Aizen battle, so even if they couldn’t sense it, they could measure his power in numbers and B.) Mayuri who’s an inferior scientist to Urahara was able to create technology that could seal and restrain TYBW Aizen who’s stronger than FKT Aizen
5.) The Substitute Badge that serves as a catalyst for Ichigo’s fullbting was stated in both the anime and manga to have absorbed and taken in Ichigo’s reiatsu throughout all of his battles that he had it in. And the anime goes out of its way to show Ichigo going into Mugetsu when Ginjo is explaining that the Gotei used the badge to monitor his power. So the badge which the Fullbring uses as a catalyst for its power has Ichigo’s Mugetsu tier reiatsu as a part of it, which fits in with the previous points
6.) In CFYOW, Ginjo who didn’t get any stronger and didn’t do any training himself besides training Ganju, was stated to be able to kill Hikone by Tokinada, was stated to be able to fight him without trickery head on by the narrator, and was stated by Tokinada to have the raw power to become the Soul King right then and there and change or destroy the world (meaning the Bleach cosmology in context) as he sees fit. Hikone is someone that the novel mentions post TYBW Aizen, who passively gets stronger and would be stronger than he was in the TYBW who was already stronger than his max power in the FKT Arc….would need to be serious to defeat Hikone
This isn’t the rage/emotion amped Ginjo who scales to True Bankai Ichigo’s Getsuga that killed Yhwach, but Bankai Ginjo. So Bankai Ginjo > the Soul King and is somewhat relative to TYBW Aizen stat wise. This same Ginjo was relative to FB Bankai Ichigo until he got mentally nerfed and wavered.
So both Bankai Ginjo and FB Bankai Ichigo scale somewhat relative to TYBW Aizen physical stat wise and scale at bare minimum to Hikone/Above the weakened Soul King
The databook stated that 4th Fusion Aizen was = to the Soul King and 5th Fusion Aizen surpassed him. 5th Fusion Aizen was weaker than Dangai Ichigo, but in the same ‘dimension’ as him as he was able to harm him
So again, FB Bankai Ichigo and Ginjo scale to these beyond Soul King level powers.
And then scaling near TYBW Aizen isn’t inconsistent as TYBW Ichigo is ridiculously above TYBW Aizen stat wise. SK Yhwach was able to put a hole in Aizen by simply stretching his arm out in his direction, absolutely shredding his durability while Aizen couldn’t damage him with a Hado 99. And Yhwach’s darkness spiritual energy waves one shotted Aizen.
Ichigo tanked a bunch of those darkness energy waves from Yhwach and with just his True Bankai and not using any abilities besides Getsuga and a regular slash, was able to one shot SK Yhwach twice
So the Fullbring forms scale above Dangai and Mugetsu but below True Shikai/Bankai/HoS.
And if you say it’s inconsistent for Ichigo not one shotting Quilge, post timeskip Ichigo in character holds back a ridiculous amount of strength and doesn’t go all out unless needed.
He held back against the Hollow-Quincy just before and didn’t just blitz and one shot. Same for Quilge. He went all out against the Jail which is impervious to damage from non Quincy, and then while weakened, injured and exhausted from eating his own Getsuga explosions to the face, he went all out against Yhwach.
Another example of how much Ichigo was either held back or nerfed…FB Bankai Ichigo while only relying on his own physical power and not the power of him…without his full Shihakusho and without his zanpakuto spirits together amping each other was able to blitz Kirinji and break his hand after just recovering from the springs. This same Kirinji was able to outspeed and ‘kill’ Jugram in direct 1 on 1 combat.
But prior to this, we see Ichigo who has his own physical power + more of his Shihakusho + both of his Zan spirits amping him + a rage amp + bloodlusted…..but weakened injured and exhausted from spamming Getsuga’s to try and get out of the Jail….got outsped and his Bankai snapped by a casual Jugram. Yet a fully recovered Ichigo without any of those amps and just fully healed blitzed and broke the hand of the guy that could kill a serious Jugram.
Then True Shikai Ichigo never went all out in any battle he fought in until he fought Yhwach the final time, suppressing himself enough so that the Quincy girls could take multiple hits from him or that Askin could get him with hax
The difference between True Shikai Ichigo and the Quincy girls is bigger than the difference between FB Shikai/Bankai Ichigo and Quilge so he doesn’t have anti feats
7.) Dangai Ichigo isn’t a special form. It’s just Ichigo with 3 months of training and understanding both of his zanpakuto spirits better. Unless you think that when Ichigo regained his Shinigami powers in the FB Arc, he forgot those lessons he learned from those 3 months with his zanpakuto spirits, he would at least be stronger than Dangai Ichigo. You could argue he’s not stronger than Mugetsu based on that but the rest of the evidence says otherwise. All of the anti feats could be explained as characters holding back…like Tsukishima who scales to FB Ichigo stomping Byakuya, but then leaving himself open and lowering his defenses on purpose which is the only way Byakuya killed him, or Base Ginjo seeming to only to scale to Tsukishima and Complete FB Ichigo and not seeming strong, but in the novel he goes from casually toying with Grimmjow in Base to almost one shotting Tokinada in Base, when Tokinada was giving a squad of people like Kyoraku, Yoruichi, and other high level captains and Sternritters trouble by himself
8.) Shonen power progression is a thing. It’s a very consistent thing in battle Shonen that the villains and main villain of the following arc is stronger than the previous arc. Aside from all the evidence I dropped above from the manga, anime and canon novels….the literal narrative point of the arc was for Ichigo to not just regain his powers, but regain the level of power he had before, which is what Kubo was clearly portraying with them comparing his power to what it once was, Kubo outright showing they have knowledge of transcendent Aizen and Dangai Ichigo tier beings, the post timeskip Gotei having technology that can analyze and suppress that tier of energy etc…I get why people reading/watching the arc at face value don’t understand the scaling implications and it does take looking into the anime/manga more deeply and the novels which most people don’t care for but Kubo clearly had shonen power progression making the main enemies of Ichigo for this arc stronger than the last arc like he did with literally every other arc
no, its not, bc all panel you've show didn't mention mugetsu, it just ichigo shinigami power in general.
@@justwind6930 You are ignoring what I said in the video and why I say it’s Mugetus.
As I said and showed in the video, there’s multiple statements in reference to FB shikai and FB bankai Ichigo being relative if not stronger than Mugutsu. IE: The Yhwach statement.
@@subject8938 i also can give the reference and manga panel if you want to see it, bc in terms of feat mugetsu is better than fullbring ichigo.
Also i surprised that you can see it clearly that yhwach statement is refering to fullbring bc kubo clearly draw fullbring ichigo on that line, but everyone else think that its refer to "true" shikai ichigo, which is very funny bc it just fanfic, true shikai never exist.
@@justwind6930you can definitely say that Mugutus has better stand alone feats or pieces of scaling but considering what we have, all it would do is up scale FB Shikai/Bankai Ichigo.
And I thought it was pretty obvious that Kubo put in a picture of Ginjo. It’s just that the speech bubbles was in front of it.
@@subject8938The statements you are referencing only address Ichigo's Shinigami abilities; at no point was Mugetsu mentioned. Additionally, it makes no sense. In the TYBW, Aizen’s level is shown to be capable of keeping up with the Soul King-infused Yhwach, in a manner that scales to true Shikai Ichigo, which is far beyond Fullbring Ichigo. Urahara notes that TYBW Aizen probably only got stronger since his fight with Ichigo, and since there is doubt, he can’t be that much stronger. Additionally, Mugetsu itself is a fusion of Ichigo’s Shinigami, Hollow, and Quincy powers, amplified by his sacrifice, as shown when Ichigo learned it. This fusion is akin to Lezt Stil and a pseudo-true Shikai, not just Shinigami abilities, which makes all those statements moot. Since they only reference Shinigami abilities, even if they didn't know about Ichigo's Quincy powers, they at least knew about his Hollow powers, so no mention means it doesn’t refer to Mugetsu.Since it's a hybrid power. Plus the scaling makes zero sense.
Furthermore, Ichigo is shown to be captain-level in the TYBW, as evidenced by his fight against a Sternritter who is also captain-level. Although Ichigo was stronger, it was still a fight.While base aizen one shots bankai captains.
Yes, characters got stronger, but Urahara, despite not showing any increase in strength, remains clearly captain-level. So, they can’t be that much stronger.
Mugetsu has so much Reiatsu that it literally took physical form, which we only see with true Shikai Ichigo, and even then, only to a lesser extent. The panel suggesting that Ichigo regained his powers and defeated Aizen when he fought Ginjo also suggests that he defeated Aizen just after the cocoon state, not even Butterflizen, since that’s the Aizen depicted. This is clearly not true; therefore, the images can’t be taken literally.
The panel you mentioned has Tsushima saying that Ichigo's power is closer to what it once was, meaning his Fullbring got stronger. Not that it was encroaching on Mugetsu. Ginjo’s statement suggests his Fullbring powers would fuse with his Shinigami ones, allowing him to surpass his previous Shinigami abilities. Just Shinigami. There’s no reference to Mugetsu, which is a hybrid power.
@@justwind6930It is his true Shikai. Previously, Old Man Zangetsu suppressed his powers, and he wasn't using an Asuchi, which is needed for a true Zanpakutō. Only after his time at the Royal Palace did he gain his Shikai. Hence, his true Shikai, since previous versions were fake. You are right that Fullbring Ichigo doesn't scale to Mugetsu though.