Always worth listening to, and yes, a catalyst for exposing this appalling abuse of power. He also looks at wider picture, eg federation of SPM’s who enabled the abuse by POL. I am very grateful for Nick’s calm logic combined with passion for justice, not widely held values these days sadly
The joke is these people want paying as being in control of a business, yet are not willing to be held responsible when found out, she pushed destroying innocent people all because she did not want to admit the system she put in had major problems.
Yes, enough of these committee "enquiries." No ordinary person gets to drag things out in Parliament. Ordinary people are arrested, charged and tried in court. None of the P.O senior management past and present are above the law!!
Whatever her level of intelligence, it is clear the Jason Beer is ten times more clever. He had her completely cornered several times yesterday, and he knows that every time he does so, Wyn Williams picks up on it and draws the obvious conclusion - a serial liar who failed to do the right thing when it mattered and then covered it up, with the collusion of other senior employees. I’m looking forward to her getting quizzed by the core participants later today - they will tear her a new one.
@@BeverlyMurphy-ii2wp I live in NZ and the series is called Mr Bates vs the Post Office. Seek and ye shall find. Oh that is Paula Vennells one of the worst in this very true and extremely sad saga. Shes and Anglican Minister. Watch and it wall all make sense.
@@debibuxton1335 Had the Archbishop of Canterbury had his way, the Rev. Paula would have been made Bishop of London a few years ago. Clearly, Justin saw in her a character akin to his own?
"Passive apologies"! You have hit the nail on the head. Not apologising for what they actively DID to these people, in their cold, callous, bullying, cruelty: but what simply "happened" as a consequence of forces beyond their control. Unfortunately, there are ANGELA VAN DEN BOGERD's scattered throughout Government organisations and institutions, throughout the UK I used to encounter them in Nursing. Usually of low intellect (but with an ability to scheme; and use 'Management Speak', especially acronyms!): these were people who had 'time-served' their way up through the ranks; so that they had the "Now it's MY turn!" attitude.
@@cynthiastrawson3316 Thanks Cynthia: having been a male feminist for much of my life (I fought - wrongly - for the ordination of women: not realising that the entire hierarchical CLERGY are the problem in the Church) I have now come to the conclusion that there is a research doctorate waiting to be written on the 'type' of woman who ends up in Management: whether that be in the Post Office or Church.
None of these people were doing any work at all. They didn’t read emails, didn’t talk to anyone, they never called meetings- they were just passive participants, they didn’t understand what people told them or what they read, that wasn’t their job, this wasn’t their responsibility. So what the hell were these people doing all day at work? The inquiry needs to nail them down on what their job actually was. As for this woman in particular, she is like a zombie. She wants her money, she wants lots of it and that is the only thing that’s important to her. All of these people are taking the barristers and solicitors at this inquiry for fools.
Angela is a survivor - she runs with the hares and hunts with the hounds. She never really had knowledge, nor did she actually do anything. Like her Germanic cousins in WW2 she would have run a prison camp efficiently for her bosses and would have been blind to any injustice for the inmates.
It seems that in Post Office culture, 'befehl ist befehl' was the rule. Or at least, Bogerd is trying to insist that it was. Apparently, when she left the P.O., her salary was in excess of £400,000 p.a.
There are about 12,000 sub-post offices in the UK, around 4,000 had serious discrepancies running to many thousands or tens of thousands of pounds. Yet all these instances happened to people who were not only upstanding members of their communities but had been screened carefully by the PO before being given PO contracts. We are supposed to swallow that senior management at the PO found it credible that a third of all its agents, to quote Paula V, gave way to “temptation” & had their hands in the till. Not a single non-executive PO director ever questioned how so many PO agents suddenly became massively dishonest, when their “thefts“ were easily discoverable by audits. In Angela‘s case, by 2010 or earlier, she didn’t need to ask that question, because she knew the answer.
Of course every executive knew that there was an inordinately high number of sub postmasters being prosecuted, just as they all knew that the Horizon system was faulty. They would have meetings where the minutes were not recorded and they all spoke frankly. The decision would have been taken " protect the brand and protect the very expensive computer system or pur jobs aren't risk" Once you head down the road of lying there is no turning back when the stakes are so high!!!
Exactly what I said when I first heard about this. A sudden surge in postmaster fraud and only Alan Bates twigged? I don’t think so. The actual fraud is by the Post Office. Paula Vennell would do well to take responsibility when her skinny butt hits that chair and dob in the others involved in the scam. She’d have Angela in the next cell for company at least!
When you implement a new IT system, despite rigorous alpha and beta testing, you expect soem unforeseen flaws to surface. But 12,000 from 4,000 i.e. almost 30% would you not expect that to raise some eyebrows?
You are 100% right. The very first time this fiasco hit the press, my very first thought was no way. No way that all these subpostmasters had suddenly become dishonest. Anyone with sense could see that this was impossible, and investigators must’ve been bone headed not to see that they weren’t lying.
This woman was promoted continuously in PO until she was in such a senior position that she was used to brief MPs, yet, it seems she was never responsible for anything, in any of these multiple roles
She claims to have had a very important job. That of passing on instructions for her superiors, without, of course, reading any of them. I wonder if her main line of defence, that of 'some big boys and girls did it, then ran away,' will succeed?
I’m afraid the ‘boss classes’ have a very low opinion of the working population and they don’t genuinely care about the lives and rights of the minions. I’ve seen this in many of the organisations I’ve worked for, including the civil service. Because the boss classes are predominantly from the same socio economic groups and are by nature very ambitious and uncompromising, they have no empathy for or understanding of those who aren’t like them.Their arrogance and ruthlessness is clearly demonstrated throughout this appalling scandal.
Thus has it always been! A perfect example of the " boss classes " ( as you put it) in action is the first world war.....sending boys as young as 16 and even younger if they lied about their age to fight in the trenches of France and continuing this wickedness for 4 long years!
As far as I've seen so far, none of these culpable people are willing to remember anything they did in their senior positions from day to day. There is absolutely no recognition of their own actions in pursuing mercilessly, innocent victims in their cover up. How do they seriously expect anyone to believe their recollections, that they never followed any information up with further inquiries or looked into their email trail of it. Totally unbelievable, but if not that, then sheer incompetence and mismanagement of the highest level. They should all be held culpable.
If these creatures are symptomatic of the qualities and abilities of the senior 'management' of a major organisation like the Post Office, I wonder about other major Britith organisations, and the qualities of their 'great & good?'
Yes, people went to prison, died, livelihood lost, scorned, assets lost, savings lost, family breakup...liars cannot get away. Prison for everyone involved.
Imagine, at your place of work, some money goes missing. You get blamed. If you deny it you are threatened with court resulting in prison. Or if you admit it you just get a suspended sentence or community punishment. So to avoid prison you admit guilt. Over and done with you think. Then your company sues you for court costs because you were found guilty, you owe £350,000 in court costs. Your life ruined. This company is called the Post Office. Their logo is " whatever you need us for, we're here for you". They spent £100 million in expensive lawers to try to avoid paying £58 million in compensation. The class action saw the incorrectly convicted see £20,000 in compensation after court costs. The executive salaries were between £250,000 and £500,000
The real Point is, that these sort of people, are very highly paid, to take responsibility for whatever goes wrong. Sitting in Court and pleading they didn't know is not acceptable.
Just like what Boris Johnson used and the present government with the opposition parties. Sick evil society which is going backwards. Then they call it democracy, a big lie.
She's not clever, she's a liar and if you think she's clever you're ignoring the truth of how evil she is. There is already significant evidence that she knew exactly what was going on and there is no lie big enough to exempt her from responsibility.
The case Jayakanthan Sivasubramaniam and his wife is a prime example of what was being discussed above , Jayakanthan Sivasubramaniam committed suicide over a £100k shortfall , the post office hounded his wife for the "missing money" . In order to pay for the shortfalls, the woman took out several bank loans, re-mortgaged their £350,000 home, sold their properties abroad and traded in £14,000 worth of jewellery. Yet now after she looked for compensation from the "Horizon shortfall scheme" she is being told that it was her husband that was the sub postmaster , and that she is entitled to nothing , which beggars the question if the business was her husbands why was she hounded to pay back the shortfall
Absolutely disgusting behavior by the colluding scum at the top of the Post Office. They knew full well that Horizon had problems as far back as 2010 but they did not have the integrity to own up to the fact. They brought misery to countless numbers of loyal honest sub postmasters and mistresses and untold hardship and shame on their families. It is incredible that no one involved, either in the Post Office, Fujitsu, or the consultants and lawyers involved could summon up the courage to blow the whistle on what was happening. And the Government ministers, as owners and shareholders should also shoulder a considerable part of the blame. I am lost for words with how disgusted I am with them all.
Judge Peter Fraser criticised Van De Bogherd her testimony and said she "did not give me frank evidence, and sought to obfuscate matters, and mislead me". Beer KC, lead counsel to the inquiry, challenged Ms van den Bogerd's opening statement, as he accused her of not saying sorry for her own role in the scandal… The actions and motives were to save money and for personal gain in the way of significant benefits & bonus pay outs!!! Not to protect the brand.., it was to protect shareholders and save the business from going bankrupt!!
She is not sorry at all! 'Sorry for what happened!' These Post Office bosses are all guilty of destroying hundreds of lives! There should be a criminal court case asap for these dreadful people! Alan Bates, Nick Wallace and Lord Abuthnot are wonderful for pursuing this shocking scandal for years!
She’s only sorry she’s been rumbled : no sincerity in her apology at all !! Would also add that everyone knows what Van Bogerd looks like now so she will undoubtedly be a social pariah for the rest of her days !! I feel so vindictive ( as no doubt we all do ) towards this evil woman !
These Post Office executives have deliberately and collectively acquired amnesia in order to avoid prosecution for wholesale lying and for instituting malicious prosecutions. Let's hope they fail and that this particular female spends as much time in jail as any of the totally innocent postmasters did.
She had all the information needed to know prosecutions were being made using flawed information and incompetent investigations/audits as early as early 2011. She made no attempt to initiate a full review of all historical prosecutions, review company accounts. In addition, she has not accepted the courts findings of her part in the scandal. Jail time is the only way she will realise here responsibility.
The sad thing is we all know that no one will be held accountable, Bloody Sunday, Orgreave, Hillsborough, Grenfell........the establishment will close ranks 'move on there's nothing to see here'
How could the PO have so many un-inquisitive/incompetent/negligent/forgetfull managers? ‘A Den of Criminals’ sounds more convincing from what I’m hearing!
Exactly. It’s an interesting organisation that has such a low bar for senior and highly paid executives. How can I get a job there…I could do with the cash but don’t want any responsibility! And a bonus for doing a rubbish job would be great too!
I watched this for a good part of the day she came across as a liar just trying to save her own skin, i hope she goes to trial and be made accountable for what she has done
Fujitsu and the subsidiary company owned by Rishi Sunak wife's father must be held accountable also. That's why Sunak is pushing Rewanda, Isreal, Russia, Ukraine, Britain arms, etc. To keep the ghosts of his father in law company part of it all. Research it....
The length of time this was all going on, what 20 odd years, they all knew and didn't even investigate any problems or the number of people who they said were stealing, nobody realised they couldn't all be stealing, for god's sake are they all stupid, either that or they should be jailed end of. I am so angry, how do they sleep at night.
I suspect that as with other "Inquiries" it will cost us the taxpayers millions and in the end some will get a smack on the wrist and nothing else. Compensation should have been paid a long time ago, the hole thing is a "pass the buck" like all the other Inquiries.
Everyone at the top of the Post Office are guilty to a greater or lessr degree of scapegoating the local Post Office staff to cover up the faults in the Post Office computer system.
Why is there is not more emphasis on the where the missing money went when questioning PO staff. It appears as though the SPMs had to prove they did not steal it rather than the burden of proof falling to the PO who were making the claim. If Horizon was correct in highlighting missing money why was none of it recovered.
After umpteen years of this case, it's amazing that there are people who still can't grasp the simple idea that (1) THERE WERE ERRORS IN THE TILL SYSTEM, and (2 ) NO MONEY WENT MISSING. Go back to sleep.
@@Philcopson That was the point of my comment there was no missing money but the horizon system was indicating there was. So the burden of proof on the PO was to trace that supposedly missing money. If they had pursued that more vigorously they would have found out the error was with the Horizon system as the SPMs were indicating.
@@eljay5746 I haven't seen every moment of the coverage of course, but the enquiry doesn't appear to ask the most basic of questions of PO "investigators" like Stephen Bradshaw: "How many cases did you investigate?" "About 700." "In how many cases did you find that the SPMs were living beyond their means?" "None" "Had large sums of money in cash they couldn't account for?" None. "Had money in bank accounts that couldn't be accounted for?" "None" "How were the SPMs removing money?" "I don't know." "Was it your job to find out?" "Yes" "Why would any SPM take money when they know that they are personally responsible for any shortfall?" "I don't know." "Are franchisees being prosecuted for theft in such large numbers in any other branch of retail such as fast-food outlets, pubs, or petrol station?" "No." "Then why do you think that SPMs who have to pass rigorous background checks are more likely to be dishonest than the manager of a McDonalds or a BP filling station?" etc etc. The whole idea that hundreds of people would start taking money when they know for an absolute certainty that they would be found out and lose their livelihoods, is so absurd that only a member of our amoral, light-fingered, back-scratching, bonus-bunny professional classes such Vennels or Bogerd would be stupid enough to believe it. Essentially - they judged others by their own standards.
@@Frank-cd2ij It was that bad the SPM lawyers I believe were advising their clients to take the lesser charge of falsifying accounts. Hopefully they will all be held to account.
@@Philcopson we are not all from the UK. I have just stumbled across this saga and I live in NZ. be kind on those of us who don't have all the details yet.
When I watch the Post Office Horizon Inquiry I see hubris of the highest order and insincerity in spades. I haven't yet seen Angela's testimony yet. I don't however expect anything different.
These two women are especially in a most liable position of all created out from their own actions. They will likely make excellent jail mates having lots of time together reflect upon their crimes. Even then however I doubt in their arrogance still able totally understanding the massive damage they made. Not until freedom and eventually returning to find their $$ assets been robbed away. Forever left now as two destitute broken old ladies.
How on earth were these people allowed to be in such senior positions ? I thought there were under oath when they are testifying , constant lying and ignoring the facts. I only hope these people are brought to a criminal court as they earned such high salarys. Disgusting .
Do we really expect any of the senior POL people to admit collectively or individually to perverting the course of justice or to self-incriminate. The trouble with the Inquiry is that it is probably making a successful police investigation leading to convictions less likely by delaying things further. They have all employed solicitors or counsel before appearing and have been carefully coached what to say, and what not to say. Dont expect anyone to accept responsibility. They are sorry the truth came out..
These people who were in charge, are criminal's. The people who have suffered, have lost their livelyhoods, homes, lost their lives, families, you name it they have lost it. Pay them NOW for money these people were accused of stealing and was made to pay back from their savings, and loans from family's ❤ it's scandalous, then they all need a bloody good compensation, of thousands and thousands. The biggest gift will see this lot of liers behind bars for ever.
Take hers, Paula Venables and a few others at the top amassed bonuses and use that to pay back the sub Postmasters/mistresses their money, after all, thats where their fortunes came from.
These employees working for POL seem to stonewall the questions with their lack of knowledge and memory . I hope the legal team is able to get this sorted.
Nick Wallis continues to play an important part in exposing these awful people. Well done Nick!
Always worth listening to, and yes, a catalyst for exposing this appalling abuse of power. He also looks at wider picture, eg federation of SPM’s who enabled the abuse by POL. I am very grateful for Nick’s calm logic combined with passion for justice, not widely held values these days sadly
Can we let Nick Wallis grill her today
Agreed pol tried to silence him during this mess
This woman comes across as a total liar. She's completely unwilling to accept any and all responsibility.
They will make her a dame
The joke is these people want paying as being in control of a business, yet are not willing to be held responsible when found out, she pushed destroying innocent people all because she did not want to admit the system she put in had major problems.
@@jilllawton8556 they're all singing of the same hymn sheet.
@@geoffnichols3831All the innocent victims, and that's what they are, should get the lawyers in.
And it is a "lady of the cloth", Vile creature and the only thing it's any good at is stealing oxygen.
She has to be held accountable
Her, her cronies and her henchmen
Like all people of high position within the Post Office, she has a degree in Amnesia and Lying.
She never went to Uni which is unbelievable given the job she held. Promoted beyond her capabilities!!
Please, please, please continue to report on this issue, especially for those poor sub-postmasters.
If she’s been proven to lie under oath, she should be charged.
CRIMINAL … arrest her and quiz her in jail, and get back her inflated bonuses
And her pensions
Yes, enough of these committee "enquiries." No ordinary person gets to drag things out in Parliament. Ordinary people are arrested, charged and tried in court. None of the P.O senior management past and present are above the law!!
@@fractionaldebtisfraud2187 old ladies have been jailed for not paying the bbc licence fee FFS!!!
@@OutRAjious Wooosh!
She is not clever, just a liar.
Stupid, but guided by lawyers.
She is a well practiced liar.
@@paulcundy7329 most probably the same lawyers who represented the lie for the imprisonment of the sub post masters.
Whatever her level of intelligence, it is clear the Jason Beer is ten times more clever. He had her completely cornered several times yesterday, and he knows that every time he does so, Wyn Williams picks up on it and draws the obvious conclusion - a serial liar who failed to do the right thing when it mattered and then covered it up, with the collusion of other senior employees. I’m looking forward to her getting quizzed by the core participants later today - they will tear her a new one.
@@srp01983 the crown prosecution needs to get involved now, let's see how far she will go with her lies..
She has to get charged with perjury, right?
Don't be daft more likely a highland paid job awaits het.happens all the time
I live in the USA. What's the story on this woman & the Post Office ??? I haven't heard any Reporting on this over here. 🤔
@Be... just google “post office scandal summary”.
@@BeverlyMurphy-ii2wp I live in NZ and the series is called Mr Bates vs the Post Office. Seek and ye shall find. Oh that is Paula Vennells one of the worst in this very true and extremely sad saga. Shes and Anglican Minister. Watch and it wall all make sense.
@@debibuxton1335 Had the Archbishop of Canterbury had his way, the Rev. Paula would have been made Bishop of London a few years ago. Clearly, Justin saw in her a character akin to his own?
They are all guilty as hell.
Jail time.
Kevin that won't happen.even if it's proven shes a liar she won't get jailed.the criminal justice system protect these people.
Throw her in jail and lose the key she is evil a complete lier.
Evil indeed but will not be given jail.cant believe folks still believe in the rightiousness of british justice
She was truly truly sorry she was caught .
"Passive apologies"! You have hit the nail on the head. Not apologising for what they actively DID to these people, in their cold, callous, bullying, cruelty: but what simply "happened" as a consequence of forces beyond their control. Unfortunately, there are ANGELA VAN DEN BOGERD's scattered throughout Government organisations and institutions, throughout the UK I used to encounter them in Nursing. Usually of low intellect (but with an ability to scheme; and use 'Management Speak', especially acronyms!): these were people who had 'time-served' their way up through the ranks; so that they had the "Now it's MY turn!" attitude.
Also glaring examples in police service.
@@cynthiastrawson3316 Thanks Cynthia: having been a male feminist for much of my life (I fought - wrongly - for the ordination of women: not realising that the entire hierarchical CLERGY are the problem in the Church) I have now come to the conclusion that there is a research doctorate waiting to be written on the 'type' of woman who ends up in Management: whether that be in the Post Office or Church.
None of these people were doing any work at all. They didn’t read emails, didn’t talk to anyone, they never called meetings- they were just passive participants, they didn’t understand what people told them or what they read, that wasn’t their job, this wasn’t their responsibility. So what the hell were these people doing all day at work? The inquiry needs to nail them down on what their job actually was.
As for this woman in particular, she is like a zombie. She wants her money, she wants lots of it and that is the only thing that’s important to her. All of these people are taking the barristers and solicitors at this inquiry for fools.
Of course - they outsourced all the actual 'work' to law firms/ consultants, delegated responsibility then sat back. Nothing to see here.
WHA ON EARTH WERE THEY BEING PAID FOR?
She's dreadful. As they all have been so far in the inquiry, highlighting the toxic culture at the Post Office.
Angela is a survivor - she runs with the hares and hunts with the hounds. She never really had knowledge, nor did she actually do anything. Like her Germanic cousins in WW2 she would have run a prison camp efficiently for her bosses and would have been blind to any injustice for the inmates.
Good analogy 👏
Brilliant response Piper. Wasnt there..didnt know..someone who just looked like me.
It seems that in Post Office culture, 'befehl ist befehl' was the rule. Or at least, Bogerd is trying to insist that it was. Apparently, when she left the P.O., her salary was in excess of £400,000 p.a.
@@dovetonsturdee7033 .....wonder if she had final salary pension ......beggars belief .....
There are about 12,000 sub-post offices in the UK, around 4,000 had serious discrepancies running to many thousands or tens of thousands of pounds. Yet all these instances happened to people who were not only upstanding members of their communities but had been screened carefully by the PO before being given PO contracts. We are supposed to swallow that senior management at the PO found it credible that a third of all its agents, to quote Paula V, gave way to “temptation” & had their hands in the till. Not a single non-executive PO director ever questioned how so many PO agents suddenly became massively dishonest, when their “thefts“ were easily discoverable by audits. In Angela‘s case, by 2010 or earlier, she didn’t need to ask that question, because she knew the answer.
Of course every executive knew that there was an inordinately high number of sub postmasters being prosecuted, just as they all knew that the Horizon system was faulty. They would have meetings where the minutes were not recorded and they all spoke frankly. The decision would have been taken
" protect the brand and protect the very expensive computer system or pur jobs aren't risk"
Once you head down the road of lying there is no turning back when the stakes are so high!!!
* our jobs are at risk
Exactly what I said when I first heard about this. A sudden surge in postmaster fraud and only Alan Bates twigged? I don’t think so. The actual fraud is by the Post Office. Paula Vennell would do well to take responsibility when her skinny butt hits that chair and dob in the others involved in the scam. She’d have Angela in the next cell for company at least!
When you implement a new IT system, despite rigorous alpha and beta testing, you expect soem unforeseen flaws to surface. But 12,000 from 4,000 i.e. almost 30% would you not expect that to raise some eyebrows?
You are 100% right. The very first time this fiasco hit the press, my very first thought was no way. No way that all these subpostmasters had suddenly become dishonest. Anyone with sense could see that this was impossible, and investigators must’ve been bone headed not to see that they weren’t lying.
Cancel her pension
Good call mate!
Denialism, new word used to describe liars!
Yes the managers need to feel this injustice in their pockets...the postmasters often went bankrupt, lost their homes etc.
@@estherlutz3358 If I may extend it to the serving of jail time just like the post sub masters.
@@michaelc821
Yes please. Jail.
They need to be put on trial.
Very EVIL woman! Those in charge must be jailed.
Arrogant thinks shes untouchable
Do your job police
They know it was all wrong but did nothing, Fake apologies, still no empathy or shame…..They all look guilty…..All covering their own backs….Prison.
Yes, yes, but are you sure they knew it was wrong.... Regards
Like Manuel in Fawlty Tower: "I know nothing" !
This woman was promoted continuously in PO until she was in such a senior position that she was used to brief MPs, yet, it seems she was never responsible for anything, in any of these multiple roles
She claims to have had a very important job. That of passing on instructions for her superiors, without, of course, reading any of them.
I wonder if her main line of defence, that of 'some big boys and girls did it, then ran away,' will succeed?
Makes you wonder what she did all day. File her nails with ear plugs in ? Someone must have recorded the Managers unofficial meetings? Seems not.
Yep
I’m afraid the ‘boss classes’ have a very low opinion of the working population and they don’t genuinely care about the lives and rights of the minions. I’ve seen this in many of the organisations I’ve worked for, including the civil service. Because the boss classes are predominantly from the same socio economic groups and are by nature very ambitious and uncompromising, they have no empathy for or understanding of those who aren’t like them.Their arrogance and ruthlessness is clearly demonstrated throughout this appalling scandal.
Thus has it always been! A perfect example of the " boss classes " ( as you put it) in action is the first world war.....sending boys as young as 16 and even younger if they lied about their age to fight in the trenches of France and continuing this wickedness for 4 long years!
As far as I've seen so far, none of these culpable people are willing to remember anything they did in their senior positions from day to day. There is absolutely no recognition of their own actions in pursuing mercilessly, innocent victims in their cover up. How do they seriously expect anyone to believe their recollections, that they never followed any information up with further inquiries or looked into their email trail of it. Totally unbelievable, but if not that, then sheer incompetence and mismanagement of the highest level. They should all be held culpable.
If these creatures are symptomatic of the qualities and abilities of the senior 'management' of a major organisation like the Post Office, I wonder about other major Britith organisations, and the qualities of their 'great & good?'
She must be jailed for justice and all her assets taken from her.
Yes, people went to prison, died, livelihood lost, scorned, assets lost, savings lost, family breakup...liars cannot get away. Prison for everyone involved.
She is an utter lier. If WE can see this, surely the authorities can also see it. THESE POST OFFICE BOSSES SHOULD BE PROSECUTED!!
Imagine, at your place of work, some money goes missing. You get blamed. If you deny it you are threatened with court resulting in prison. Or if you admit it you just get a suspended sentence or community punishment. So to avoid prison you admit guilt. Over and done with you think. Then your company sues you for court costs because you were found guilty, you owe £350,000 in court costs. Your life ruined. This company is called the Post Office. Their logo is " whatever you need us for, we're here for you". They spent £100 million in expensive lawers to try to avoid paying £58 million in compensation. The class action saw the incorrectly convicted see £20,000 in compensation after court costs. The executive salaries were between £250,000 and £500,000
Nick Wallis called a spade a spade. He cuts through this scandal and knows very well that Angela is lying through her teeth.
The real Point is, that these sort of people, are very highly paid, to take responsibility for whatever goes wrong.
Sitting in Court and pleading they didn't know is not acceptable.
Please keep exposing these lying crooks so normal people get some sort of justice it’s a disgrace what’s happened
That young man’s letter should have been in the lawyers hand today!
This is not defence of the brand. It is self preservation pure and simple. Lying is accepted and not challenged. These must serve jail time ASAP.
Just like what Boris Johnson used and the present government with the opposition parties. Sick evil society which is going backwards. Then they call it democracy, a big lie.
It goes a lot deeper, where is the money, who benefited from the scam?
She's not clever, she's a liar and if you think she's clever you're ignoring the truth of how evil she is. There is already significant evidence that she knew exactly what was going on and there is no lie big enough to exempt her from responsibility.
The case Jayakanthan Sivasubramaniam and his wife is a prime example of what was being discussed above , Jayakanthan Sivasubramaniam committed suicide over a £100k shortfall , the post office hounded his wife for the "missing money" .
In order to pay for the shortfalls, the woman took out several bank loans, re-mortgaged their £350,000 home, sold their properties abroad and traded in £14,000 worth of jewellery.
Yet now after she looked for compensation from the "Horizon shortfall scheme" she is being told that it was her husband that was the sub postmaster , and that she is entitled to nothing , which beggars the question if the business was her husbands why was she hounded to pay back the shortfall
Absolutely disgusting behavior by the colluding scum at the top of the Post Office. They knew full well that Horizon had problems as far back as 2010 but they did not have the integrity to own up to the fact. They brought misery to countless numbers of loyal honest sub postmasters and mistresses and untold hardship and shame on their families. It is incredible that no one involved, either in the Post Office, Fujitsu, or the consultants and lawyers involved could summon up the courage to blow the whistle on what was happening. And the Government ministers, as owners and shareholders should also shoulder a considerable part of the blame. I am lost for words with how disgusted I am with them all.
In that case, the wife will need to claim more even compensation and push to have them put in Jail.
Judge Peter Fraser criticised Van De Bogherd her testimony and said she "did not give me frank evidence, and sought to obfuscate matters, and mislead me".
Beer KC, lead counsel to the inquiry, challenged Ms van den Bogerd's opening statement, as he accused her of not saying sorry for her own role in the scandal…
The actions and motives were to save money and for personal gain in the way of significant benefits & bonus pay outs!!! Not to protect the brand.., it was to protect shareholders and save the business from going bankrupt!!
She is not sorry at all!
'Sorry for what happened!'
These Post Office bosses are all guilty of destroying hundreds of lives!
There should be a criminal court case asap for these dreadful people!
Alan Bates, Nick Wallace and Lord Abuthnot are wonderful for pursuing this shocking scandal for years!
She’s only sorry she’s been rumbled : no sincerity in her apology at all !! Would also add that everyone knows what Van Bogerd looks like now so she will undoubtedly be a social pariah for the rest of her days !! I feel so vindictive ( as no doubt we all do ) towards this evil woman !
These Post Office executives have deliberately and collectively acquired amnesia in order to avoid prosecution for wholesale lying and for instituting malicious prosecutions. Let's hope they fail and that this particular female spends as much time in jail as any of the totally innocent postmasters did.
Claw back all payments to her. That she should never have received. This is part of her contact. What a mess and disgusting behaviour
She as to go and visit the inside of a jail house.
Perjury is a crime
Thank goodness for journalists like Nick Ross. He’s been a champion of the victims of this outrage for years now.
She had all the information needed to know prosecutions were being made using flawed information and incompetent investigations/audits as early as early 2011. She made no attempt to initiate a full review of all historical prosecutions, review company accounts. In addition, she has not accepted the courts findings of her part in the scandal. Jail time is the only way she will realise here responsibility.
Coyne report caught them out in 2003 (day 59) and they covered that up. The PO chiefs knew it was defective before they signed up in 1999.
She was only interested in one thing her BONUS. Disgusting arrest her
this is what JAILS were built for …
The sad thing is we all know that no one will be held accountable, Bloody Sunday, Orgreave, Hillsborough, Grenfell........the establishment will close ranks 'move on there's nothing to see here'
How could the PO have so many un-inquisitive/incompetent/negligent/forgetfull managers?
‘A Den of Criminals’ sounds more convincing from what I’m hearing!
Exactly. It’s an interesting organisation that has such a low bar for senior and highly paid executives. How can I get a job there…I could do with the cash but don’t want any responsibility! And a bonus for doing a rubbish job would be great too!
"Known, or ought to have Known"
If you stood them all in a room and questioned them they would be at arms length at all times due to them pointing at each other!
She's displaying willful ignorance and trying to deflect her responsibilities onto others.
Shameful behavior keep up the good work in exposing this injustice
I watched this for a good part of the day she came across as a liar just trying to save her own skin, i hope she goes to trial and be made accountable for what she has done
thank you Nick
Fujitsu told the Post office all about the fault in the system and disregard the findings and blaming the post office managers
Fujitsu and the subsidiary company owned by Rishi Sunak wife's father must be held accountable also. That's why Sunak is pushing Rewanda, Isreal, Russia, Ukraine, Britain arms, etc. To keep the ghosts of his father in law company part of it all. Research it....
Shes been well coached by her legal team to give nothing away….she needs to be prosecuted as she’s hiding an awful lot…..
The loss of memory is equal to the depth of guilt.
She lives in a grand house and I bet her bank balance is healthy … courtesy of the prosecuted sub postmasters.
Yes whether she knew or not is irrelevant she’s responsible for terrible events and so IS GUILTY
She's branded a liar by a high court judge and she should be prosecuted for perjury.
The length of time this was all going on, what 20 odd years, they all knew and didn't even investigate any problems or the number of people who they said were stealing, nobody realised they couldn't all be stealing, for god's sake are they all stupid, either that or they should be jailed end of. I am so angry, how do they sleep at night.
She severely failed herself in her indifference to horrific suffering.
Someone needs to be held accountable now!
The police must get involved now..
I suspect that as with other "Inquiries" it will cost us the taxpayers millions and in the end some will get a smack on the wrist and nothing else. Compensation should have been paid a long time ago, the hole thing is a "pass the buck" like all the other Inquiries.
Everyone at the top of the Post Office are guilty to a greater or lessr degree of scapegoating the local Post Office staff to cover up the faults in the Post Office computer system.
They nust see the inside of a jail
Liar Liar Pants on Fire. Oh Angela that would be you. What is Priest Paula going to say. Oh well I guess you can forgive yourself ??!!
Why is there is not more emphasis on the where the missing money went when questioning PO staff. It appears as though the SPMs had to prove they did not steal it rather than the burden of proof falling to the PO who were making the claim. If Horizon was correct in highlighting missing money why was none of it recovered.
After umpteen years of this case, it's amazing that there are people who still can't grasp the simple idea that (1) THERE WERE ERRORS IN THE TILL SYSTEM, and (2 ) NO MONEY WENT MISSING. Go back to sleep.
@@Philcopson That was the point of my comment there was no missing money but the horizon system was indicating there was. So the burden of proof on the PO was to trace that supposedly missing money. If they had pursued that more vigorously they would have found out the error was with the Horizon system as the SPMs were indicating.
@@eljay5746 I haven't seen every moment of the coverage of course, but the enquiry doesn't appear to ask the most basic of questions of PO "investigators" like Stephen Bradshaw: "How many cases did you investigate?" "About 700." "In how many cases did you find that the SPMs were living beyond their means?" "None" "Had large sums of money in cash they couldn't account for?" None. "Had money in bank accounts that couldn't be accounted for?" "None" "How were the SPMs removing money?" "I don't know." "Was it your job to find out?" "Yes" "Why would any SPM take money when they know that they are personally responsible for any shortfall?" "I don't know." "Are franchisees being prosecuted for theft in such large numbers in any other branch of retail such as fast-food outlets, pubs, or petrol station?" "No." "Then why do you think that SPMs who have to pass rigorous background checks are more likely to be dishonest than the manager of a McDonalds or a BP filling station?" etc etc. The whole idea that hundreds of people would start taking money when they know for an absolute certainty that they would be found out and lose their livelihoods, is so absurd that only a member of our amoral, light-fingered, back-scratching, bonus-bunny professional classes such Vennels or Bogerd would be stupid enough to believe it. Essentially - they judged others by their own standards.
@@Frank-cd2ij It was that bad the SPM lawyers I believe were advising their clients to take the lesser charge of falsifying accounts. Hopefully they will all be held to account.
@@Philcopson we are not all from the UK. I have just stumbled across this saga and I live in NZ. be kind on those of us who don't have all the details yet.
Amazed how many “Ministers in Charge” also didn’t know anything. SIR Ed Davey springs instantly to mind.
When I watch the Post Office Horizon Inquiry I see hubris of the highest order and insincerity in spades. I haven't yet seen Angela's testimony yet. I don't however expect anything different.
It gets worse everyday I have watched. 'Robust' system goes back before 1999. Horizon was defective even in testing stage from the start.
Corporate structures seems to actively enable people with personality defects to rise to the top
She should be in jail . Utterly disgusting .
Jason beer KC When he asked her. Just what job did you do???
They need to get back any money/pension the executives made while working for the PO. They all knew what was going on.
This is more than incompetence, it's evil people in authority scapegoating their victims!
It was obvious she knew everything.but she is clever and deceiving as most are in those senior positions. She is an evil person.
No clever enough, stupid, thought I was going to buried forever. Jail time coming.
You can tell when she is lying….HER LIPS MOVE….
Some of these people are still employed by the Post Office on huge wages and bonuses.
What for ?
We are now just getting to the 'Meat & Potatoes' of this inquiry (getting juicy)
The Reverend Paula is about a month away. I expect that she is eagerly awaiting her opportunity to set the record straight.
Or researching and rehearsing the things she needs to "forget" or "not be aware of".@@dovetonsturdee7033
@@dovetonsturdee7033 : of course' i bet she cannot wait to put the mere mortals to rights !
She was ripped to pieces with her silly, I can't remember, I can't recall, my dog ate the email and then the computer crashed.
These two women are especially in a most liable position of all created out from their own actions.
They will likely make excellent jail mates having lots of time together reflect upon their crimes.
Even then however I doubt in their arrogance still able totally understanding the massive damage they made.
Not until freedom and eventually returning to find their $$ assets been robbed away.
Forever left now as two destitute broken old ladies.
The captain of a ship is responsible even if he is ashore. She is culpable end of.
I’m absolutely furious that no one remembers anything
Total lies
I wish this enquiry was being held in Russia
Prison for the rest of her life
Really, ?
@@greatunwashed1856 Without question. Corruption needs no mercy
So, the same sentence as a serial killer ?
@@greatunwashed1856 Many crimes warrant life sentences. Stop being so childish with such a ridiculous comparison.
@@inmate1614 , Are you a propronent of capital punishment?
Have you ever heard the expression "hung, drawn and quartered"?
If she didn't know, or didn't read the e-mails, or hadn't heard the message, or wan't on message, just what was she doing? Sowing?
Just lock her up
When arrested she will crack..
How on earth were these people allowed to be in such senior positions ? I thought there were under oath when they are testifying , constant lying and ignoring the facts. I only hope these people are brought to a criminal court as they earned such high salarys. Disgusting .
It's quite difficult for a person to appear even more disingenuous than her character portrayed in televised drama..but she's nailing it!!!
Lock her up.
If you're in charge, you are accountable. That's why you get more money, for your expertise.
Amnesia is very contagious.
Do we really expect any of the senior POL people to admit collectively or individually to perverting the course of justice or to self-incriminate. The trouble with the Inquiry is that it is probably making a successful police investigation leading to convictions less likely by delaying things further. They have all employed solicitors or counsel before appearing and have been carefully coached what to say, and what not to say. Dont expect anyone to accept responsibility. They are sorry the truth came out..
Clever as in dishonest, sneaky, lacking in integrity or any accountability, lacking in moral fibre......the list goes on.
Hope the police are at the enquiry recording all this lying.
Selective memory when questioned. She needs to be in a criminal court 😡
Saying "I'm sorry for what happened to you" is an expression of sympathy, not apology.
These people who were in charge, are criminal's. The people who have suffered, have lost their livelyhoods, homes, lost their lives, families, you name it they have lost it. Pay them NOW for money these people were accused of stealing and was made to pay back from their savings, and loans from family's ❤ it's scandalous, then they all need a bloody good compensation, of thousands and thousands. The biggest gift will see this lot of liers behind bars for ever.
Some of these people want putting in prison when this enquiry finishes
Take hers, Paula Venables and a few others at the top amassed bonuses and use that to pay back the sub Postmasters/mistresses their money, after all, thats where their fortunes came from.
Agree, Enron scale.
These employees working for POL seem to stonewall the questions with their lack of knowledge and memory . I hope the legal team is able to get this sorted.
prison !!!!!