Here is the Permanente Local train derailed at the Winchester crossing, M.P. 6 on the Vasona Branch. It is a pretty neat thing to watch how they get the wheels back on.
Cade Ramsey the tire is the metal strip around the wheels circumference. it was expanded and cooled to shrink around the wheel tightly. modern trains have what is callled monoblock wheel which is a single peice.
@@billsmith3195 Steel "tires" on wheels haven't been used since the steam era, and are today used ONLY on steam locomotive drivers during a major rehab or rebuild.
I remember doing this when I was a Locomotive Engineer with Santa fe Railway in 1946 when ATSF 3751 derailed. The Carknockers would seat blocks of wood under the wheels, I would pull forward and re-rail then the MOW Crews would repair the rails. Loved the video.
I like how he focuses for a little moment on the helicopters. I live near Camp Pendleton and MCAS Miramar in California, and I've learned to tell the helicopter, or jet, just by the sound of it flying a pattern. Occasionally, there is a large cruiser or aircraft carrier off the I-5 on the coast. Sadly, there is much less locomotive traffic around here. FP40's on Amtrak, rarely a GP-38 or GP40 on the passenger lines, nearly no freight anywhere on the coast.
I work for a railroad so I will give you the answers. In the U.S., railcars do NOT have tires, not even steel ones. When the wheel wears down, the set (2 wheels 1 axle) are simply replaced. Steam engine driver wheels did (do) have tires. The item referred to as a "wedge" is a "rerailer". On a minor derail we drag the train forcing the wheels up and back onto the track. Sometimes we just use scrap steel and wood. In the U.S., we are tough enough and we don't need jacks.
You were nice enough to walk in back of the news crewman while he was taking pictures, but he didn't extend the same courtesy to you! Those guys are the rudest. I never give a picture! Let them work for it. I was once on a fire crew & they claimed "Press Pass" permitted them access. The fire captain told them to go pound sand! They were arrested & their equipment was confiscated. They got their equipment back, --- 2 years later! I loved it!
Good catch. Nice shots of the wedge working. Nice respect for the TV guy as well. I liked your enthusiasm, it was contagious. As for the trolls, not so much.
I don't know a lot about trains but I think they're cool. I always thought you had to get a crane out there to fix something like this. Very neat video.
Trains did have tires,they were no longer use them after steam trains. The contact part of the driving wheels on steam locomotives were tires,it was a less expensive way of replacing the contact part of the wheel to the rail than replacing the whole driving wheel. Thanks for sharing your video,it was good.......cheers
I'm surprised as close as they are to a main road, that they couldn't bring in a DeMag crane, or some other "Hand Of God" to lift that back onto the track.
Your right it is often exciting to see A derailment. I did this job for many years and have rerailed lots of locomotives and cars alike. So the job you would hate is the one I worked for 34 years and it was always some kind of excitment. Good Video, You managed to capture the excitment well. 5*
@headmouse actually, train wheels are often turned on a lathe, a very large one.., to re profile them. Also, the British refer to the wheels as tires, and steam locomotives here had "tires" They were steel rings that were heated and placed over the drive wheels.., a practice no longer used, since diesel electrics took over from steam..
He probably didnt realise it at the time but 'tire' isnt far away from the truth. Some train wheels are fitted with a seperate piece that rolls on the rail and its known as a tyre, albeit a steel tyre. They are normally shrunk onto the wheel using heat.
yofoghorn, apparently you guys are not railroad oriented. However, you posted a very interesting video. Thanks. btw, the guys re-railing the derailed cars are called 'car knockers'.
@yofoghorn this type of derailment is unlikely to have been caused by speed. It is likely the result of bad ties, which allowed the rail to spread wider, allowing the wheels to fall onto the ballast. I worked 37 years on a railroad, and have been involved in a few like this. Its a result of deferred maintenance. By the way, this locomotive is a 6 axle GE unit, so a long truck which puts more sideways pressure on the curves, and it weighs over 400,000 lbs, so hard on poor track..
@yofoghorn The Permanente local never goes very fast. What happened was that the ties there were old, probably installed when I was still in high school there in the early 70's. The spikes pulled out and the rail rolled to the outside, out from under the wheels. This happened to a train that I was conductor on in SoCal. as we were pulling out of a siding. The last 2 cars went on the ground.
To avoid train derailments during hot summer due to track buckling Lubrication of rail joints, fixing of jaguled fish plates to be provided near rail joints.
@modeltrainexpert Well just by looking at it odds are high it was 1 of the rails being too far away from the other for the loco to sit on them. So either it was built like it (Highly unlikely since I doubt this line was new and even if it was they would have checked before hand) or the pins holding 1 of the rails in place gave and the rail moved.
Ignore the complaints but learn from them to try to keep your filming steady. Better to stop filming sometimes and move to a new position and resume. You were very successful at fulfilling the journalistic mission which is to convey the situation, to focus on how they were trying to correct it. You showed excitement, reacted to new things you learned and narrated it. It's early days but you will succeed because you 'went in' like all good journalists do and were keen to share your experience with us. It was great and a few technical changes will perfect it. Great job !!!
"Gauge spread" is why it derailed. Poor cross ties and a heavy locomotive will push the outer rail outwards on the curve or sometimes it will tip the rail right on its side.
I believe that could be the problem. These tracks are rarely ever maintained and just the idea of having the tracks replaced with CWR is strange. It is only used 6 times a week so that could have been just a disaster waiting to happen.
@andysim232 they no longer have tires in North America, except perhaps some steam locomotives..most of them are in in museums, there are a very few active on major railways for special service
the rail was out of gauge , due to poor maintenance , and you need to know that wedge shaped thing is a frog and reason for the grease shoud be obvious
@yofoghorn The rails are not a problem. They would never twist along their vertical axis. The problem are fastenings (in this case direct) - what is very old type.
I believe it was caused by the train going too fast. What's ironic is that the train had CWR ready to be put in, but because they didn't, one of the rails fell out as the train went around the curve. It was a really quick "get there as fast as you can" sort of thing so I couldn't really bring the tripod. It was a "grab the camera and go" sort of thing. I was not trespassing on the tracks. It was right near a road and there were plenty of other people there doing the same thing I was.
I wish I could give this more than one thumbs up....I don't think there was a single thing said in that video that wasn't blatantly obvious just from watching it.... "that wheel's on the track"..."that one's not"...."there's a camera guy"...."there's the train number"...
I think the crew took great personal risk to be so near the loco as they were watching the wheels ride the wedge and get back on the rails. I was scared as I watched that too much rocking during this 'transition' could cause the loco to topple (God forbid)..and I am not sure such a thing would leave with too much reaction time either.. Very brave crew - i suppose they had to get done what they had to get done. Still, it appeared a very interesting way to re-rail. Great job with the shoot.
@AG3304 Jacks are easier to use but most of the situations the train is fully loaded and very heavy. meaning you would need quiet the hydraulic jack. plus most of the time the ground is not level enough to use a jack. 3rd of all. its pretty easy to use a wedge when only some flanges are off the track cuz u can get some pushing power from wheels on the track. jack is more for if the tracks pushed out and the train fell in between.
wow thats pretty kool i had a train derailed behind my house just the thursday before christmas of 2008 so last year there is still dirty n muddy over here but it took about 3 week for it all to clear up but really nice
Steam locomotive drive wheels had steel tires which were periodically replaced. Heated to barely fit on the drive wheels, they would shrink tight as they cooled. (A steam locomotive's tires became loose when they became too hot from too much braking over a long descent.) Do any locomotives today have tires? Wheels I have seen all appear to be one piece. In the excitement he probably misspoke tire when he meant wheel. Fun video!
huh, well this is a line used about 3 times a week so not super frequently. have you tried to see them do it before? i was wondering why no one actually did stop us from being so close.
The wheels of modern trains are two piece. A steel tire is pressed onto a wheel. So basically the person narrating this video is correct if you want to get technical.
Nice catch! Also some great detailed shots! Thank you. Everyone, try to do all your videoing without trespassing on RR property. Use a tripod. Zoom in whenecessary. RR personnel should have ordered everyone OFF RR property.
@snmaster56 It was probably going around the curve too fast. The outer track of the curve broke out from beneath the train, causing it to fall off the tracks.
@chirantanaranya the locomotive would never topple on this piece of track,.. most of the rocking was torque as the power was being applied to the trucks..(the part holding the axles)
do you have any idea how much that thing you call a car ( really an engine ) weighs ? most of these are at least 450,000 pounds & tires pretty much went away with the steam engines
See those replacement rails laying next to the track? Santa Fe knew that track was needing repair. I used to live nearby and walk along the tracks and those rails laid there for years before this derailment. Santa Fe kept putting it off until this happened. That's what happens when you push the limit. Those spikes have a tendency to work themselves loose over time through use and temperature change.
Thank you for being there with your cam to record this, I found it very educational. I run ngauge locos just like the one in your video and fortunately I just pick my loco up when it derails lol. I don't understand why stupid people leave all these negative remarks you have been getting, if they cannot say anything constructive they should stay quiet or put up their own videos! Thank you once more :-)
Nothing like watching a video, and being told what's going on, by someone who has no clue what's going on.
+OneSkiWonder Like watching Fox News.
ElfNet Gaming Amen to that!
+ElfNet Gaming 0:15 "the tyre" XD. Srsly though this guy has no idea what the fuck is going on.
like OMG the tire of the train is off the track haha "tire"
OneSkiWonder I know right? The Locomotives wheels.
NOT TIRES.
"Tire?"
Are you KIDDING ME?
ITS A WHEEL! CARS HAVE TIRES, NOT TRAINS!!!
WHEELS!
Cade Ramsey the tire is the metal strip around the wheels circumference. it was expanded and cooled to shrink around the wheel tightly. modern trains have what is callled monoblock wheel which is a single peice.
Calm down
Guess what? That outer rim on the wheel is called a tire. but yes collectively he should have said wheel.
@@billsmith3195 Steel "tires" on wheels haven't been used since the steam era, and are today used ONLY on steam locomotive drivers during a major rehab or rebuild.
5:48, yes that was very cool indeed. Thanks for taking the time to share this. In know it was many years ago but never saw the video until today.
the trains "tires" de-roaded
My 1947 Chevy deroaded too!
Great capture!
I remember doing this when I was a Locomotive Engineer with Santa fe Railway in 1946 when ATSF 3751 derailed. The Carknockers would seat blocks of wood under the wheels, I would pull forward and re-rail then the MOW Crews would repair the rails. Loved the video.
I stopped watching when he called a wheel a "tire".
you know what's really fascinating is that it can inch forward that precisely tons and tons of train
At last, a really good coverage of the actual process of rerailing a loco.Very well covered.Thumbs up.
I cant believe they allowed you to walk around that close.
Fantastic video! Thanks for posting it. This is a rare sight, so I hope to see some more like it.
I've watched this vid many times over the past 12 months, its still my favorite.
Rerailed locomotive in 10 minutes? Only one word: RESPECT!
That was pretty cool to see. I've never seen one off the track and put back on like that. thanks for posting
I like how he focuses for a little moment on the helicopters.
I live near Camp Pendleton and MCAS Miramar in California, and I've learned to tell the helicopter, or jet, just by the sound of it flying a pattern.
Occasionally, there is a large cruiser or aircraft carrier off the I-5 on the coast.
Sadly, there is much less locomotive traffic around here. FP40's on Amtrak, rarely a GP-38 or GP40 on the passenger lines, nearly no freight anywhere on the coast.
I work for a railroad so I will give you the answers. In the U.S., railcars do NOT have tires, not even steel ones. When the wheel wears down, the set (2 wheels 1 axle) are simply replaced. Steam engine driver wheels did (do) have tires.
The item referred to as a "wedge" is a "rerailer". On a minor derail we drag the train forcing the wheels up and back onto the track. Sometimes we just use scrap steel and wood. In the U.S., we are tough enough and we don't need jacks.
Great job doccumenting this and sharing. Thanks, was glued to the screen the whole time, which is saying a ton on UA-cam.
Wow! Never saw that a full size loco can get back on track like this! Amazing iz is!
Qdbj
train wheel,not tire. ok? Genius
its the rim, the tire fell off. they are waiting for Goodyear to bring them another tire!
Lmaoo 😂😂😂😂
THE RE RAILING DEVICE IS CALLED A “RERAILING FROG”!!
KEEP THEM ROLLING BROTHERS!!
👍👍
You were nice enough to walk in back of the news crewman while he was taking pictures, but he didn't extend the same courtesy to you!
Those guys are the rudest. I never give a picture! Let them work for it. I was once on a fire crew & they claimed "Press Pass" permitted them access. The fire captain told them to go pound sand! They were arrested & their equipment was confiscated. They got their equipment back, --- 2 years later!
I loved it!
0:16 the metal wheel not tire
just a wheel
Good catch. Nice shots of the wedge working. Nice respect for the TV guy as well. I liked your enthusiasm, it was contagious. As for the trolls, not so much.
This is one of the few ten minute videos that I can watch and enjoy the whole time!
I subscribed and rated 5 stars and favorited!
I don't know a lot about trains but I think they're cool. I always thought you had to get a crane out there to fix something like this. Very neat video.
talk about being at the right place at the right time. good info on how they fix the problem.
That was a pretty interesting way of re-railing a train. Thanks for sharing this video!
WardyLion
Trains did have tires,they were no longer use them after steam trains. The contact part of the driving wheels on steam locomotives were tires,it was a less expensive way of replacing the contact part of the wheel to the rail than replacing the whole driving wheel.
Thanks for sharing your video,it was good.......cheers
This is an awesome video. I keep my camera with me everywhere I go just for thimgs like this.
I always wondered how they get the train back onto the rails after it derails. thanks for the vid! now i know =)
I thought it was pretty cool. Thanks for sharing.
I'm surprised as close as they are to a main road, that they couldn't bring in a DeMag crane, or some other "Hand Of God" to lift that back onto the track.
Yak ! - Keep the cam steady dude !
My good I'm all dizzy after watching this video.
At least its a pretty exiting railfan show you got in the box.
Interesting. I was really surprised they let you be that close!
Great catch!
Your right it is often exciting to see A derailment. I did this job for many years and have rerailed lots of locomotives and cars alike. So the job you would hate is the one I worked for 34 years and it was always some kind of excitment. Good Video, You managed to capture the excitment well. 5*
Wow!
Thanks for share with us!
@Norticpunk actually, the trucks hold the axles which have a wheel on each side..
Many thanks for posting this :)
I have always wonderd how trains are re-railed.
Cheers ;-)
@headmouse actually, train wheels are often turned on a lathe, a very large one.., to re profile them. Also, the British refer to the wheels as tires, and steam locomotives here had "tires" They were steel rings that were heated and placed over the drive wheels.., a practice no longer used, since diesel electrics took over from steam..
Wow! This is great! I always wondered how they did this!
I'm impressived by how low those Drive wheels can go, individualy.
He probably didnt realise it at the time but 'tire' isnt far away from the truth. Some train wheels are fitted with a seperate piece that rolls on the rail and its known as a tyre, albeit a steel tyre. They are normally shrunk onto the wheel using heat.
Great video
yofoghorn, apparently you guys are not railroad oriented. However, you posted a very interesting video. Thanks. btw, the guys re-railing the derailed cars are called 'car knockers'.
@yofoghorn this type of derailment is unlikely to have been caused by speed. It is likely the result of bad ties, which allowed the rail to spread wider, allowing the wheels to fall onto the ballast. I worked 37 years on a railroad, and have been involved in a few like this. Its a result of deferred maintenance. By the way, this locomotive is a 6 axle GE unit, so a long truck which puts more sideways pressure on the curves, and it weighs over 400,000 lbs, so hard on poor track..
@yofoghorn
The Permanente local never goes very fast. What happened was that the ties there were old, probably installed when I was still in high school there in the early 70's. The spikes pulled out and the rail rolled to the outside, out from under the wheels. This happened to a train that I was conductor on in SoCal. as we were pulling out of a siding. The last 2 cars went on the ground.
To avoid train derailments during hot summer due to track buckling Lubrication of rail joints, fixing of jaguled fish plates to be provided near rail joints.
@modeltrainexpert Well just by looking at it odds are high it was 1 of the rails being too far away from the other for the loco to sit on them. So either it was built like it (Highly unlikely since I doubt this line was new and even if it was they would have checked before hand) or the pins holding 1 of the rails in place gave and the rail moved.
Ignore the complaints but learn from them to try to keep your filming steady. Better to stop filming sometimes and move to a new position and resume. You were very successful at fulfilling the journalistic mission which is to convey the situation, to focus on how they were trying to correct it. You showed excitement, reacted to new things you learned and narrated it. It's early days but you will succeed because you 'went in' like all good journalists do and were keen to share your experience with us. It was great and a few technical changes will perfect it. Great job !!!
"Gauge spread" is why it derailed. Poor cross ties and a heavy locomotive will push the outer rail outwards on the curve or sometimes it will tip the rail right on its side.
I believe that could be the problem. These tracks are rarely ever maintained and just the idea of having the tracks replaced with CWR is strange. It is only used 6 times a week so that could have been just a disaster waiting to happen.
I've only heard it in the context where 1" steel rings are sweated onto the drive wheels on steam locomotives. Does the term still apply today?
@andysim232 they no longer have tires in North America, except perhaps some steam locomotives..most of them are in in museums, there are a very few active on major railways for special service
all railway wheels have tyres. They can be removed and replaced when they wear down from use. Just because they are metal they are still tyres.
@UXAQ No, with something like that, that flange would just cut right through.
Did you look both ways when you crossed the track?
the rail was out of gauge , due to poor maintenance , and you need to know that wedge shaped thing is a frog and reason for the grease shoud be obvious
Actually, only steam engine drivers have tires. Driver wheels are sand castings owing to their size with steel tires sweated on.
That is what trains are built for.... :) Great, right? What a gentle beast.
@yofoghorn The rails are not a problem. They would never twist along their vertical axis. The problem are fastenings (in this case direct) - what is very old type.
Great video! congrats
i guess this is how offroad for trains looks like :))
I believe it was caused by the train going too fast. What's ironic is that the train had CWR ready to be put in, but because they didn't, one of the rails fell out as the train went around the curve.
It was a really quick "get there as fast as you can" sort of thing so I couldn't really bring the tripod. It was a "grab the camera and go" sort of thing.
I was not trespassing on the tracks. It was right near a road and there were plenty of other people there doing the same thing I was.
I wish I could give this more than one thumbs up....I don't think there was a single thing said in that video that wasn't blatantly obvious just from watching it.... "that wheel's on the track"..."that one's not"...."there's a camera guy"...."there's the train number"...
nice catch.
great too see it happening.
I think the crew took great personal risk to be so near the loco as they were watching the wheels ride the wedge and get back on the rails. I was scared as I watched that too much rocking during this 'transition' could cause the loco to topple (God forbid)..and I am not sure such a thing would leave with too much reaction time either..
Very brave crew - i suppose they had to get done what they had to get done. Still, it appeared a very interesting way to re-rail. Great job with the shoot.
I'd bet all those people are not fans of trains. Usually that's what it takes to get one's interest in trains something moderately drastic.
Nice video.
*Zooms in at traction motor* "The tire..."
@AG3304 Jacks are easier to use but most of the situations the train is fully loaded and very heavy. meaning you would need quiet the hydraulic jack. plus most of the time the ground is not level enough to use a jack. 3rd of all. its pretty easy to use a wedge when only some flanges are off the track cuz u can get some pushing power from wheels on the track. jack is more for if the tracks pushed out and the train fell in between.
0:44 too
MOLE MY HOME
wow thats pretty kool i had a train derailed behind my house just the thursday before christmas of 2008 so last year there is still dirty n muddy over here but it took about 3 week for it all to clear up but really nice
Steam locomotive drive wheels had steel tires which were periodically replaced. Heated to barely fit on the drive wheels, they would shrink tight as they cooled. (A steam locomotive's tires became loose when they became too hot from too much braking over a long descent.)
Do any locomotives today have tires? Wheels I have seen all appear to be one piece.
In the excitement he probably misspoke tire when he meant wheel.
Fun video!
Is that NEW or OLD rail laid to the side? If thats the case, either the replacement was faulty, or they waited too long.
huh, well this is a line used about 3 times a week so not super frequently. have you tried to see them do it before? i was wondering why no one actually did stop us from being so close.
The wheels of modern trains are two piece. A steel tire is pressed onto a wheel. So basically the person narrating this video is correct if you want to get technical.
Jamel Ling modern trains have "monoblock wheels". this cuts cost of replacing tires and labor
Was this recorded during an earthquake?
@nikvanlanduyt I believe that the locomotive is still in service.
Nice catch!
Also some great detailed shots! Thank you.
Everyone, try to do all your videoing without trespassing on RR property.
Use a tripod.
Zoom in whenecessary.
RR personnel should have ordered everyone OFF RR property.
I can't belive they let you film all of this
THOSE WHEELS ARE GOING TO EAT THOSE TIES UP
Derailment operations though 120&140t capacity crane operations may also be shown
@snmaster56 It was probably going around the curve too fast. The outer track of the curve broke out from beneath the train, causing it to fall off the tracks.
@chirantanaranya the locomotive would never topple on this piece of track,.. most of the rocking was torque as the power was being applied to the trucks..(the part holding the axles)
@yofoghorn Yes Union Pacific 5475 is still in service.
do you have any idea how much that thing you call a car ( really an engine ) weighs ? most of these are at least 450,000 pounds & tires pretty much went away with the steam engines
@yofoghorn I'd doubt that, it looks like one of the rails gave way due to fatigue, not because the train was going too fast.
Trains have wheels that consist of a Tire and a Flange, all steel in this case.
hell9o there mate quick question why did it derail likehow
It's a wheel not a tire. Tires are made of rubber. Wheels are made of steel or aluminum. Trains do not have tires.
Actually, some railway wheels do have tyres (note rest-of-the-world spelling there) heated and contracted onto the wheel disc.
Definitely a rail rolled over, but whether it was already like that, or the derailment caused it, remains to be seen.
See those replacement rails laying next to the track? Santa Fe knew that track was needing repair. I used to live nearby and walk along the tracks and those rails laid there for years before this derailment. Santa Fe kept putting it off until this happened. That's what happens when you push the limit. Those spikes have a tendency to work themselves loose over time through use and temperature change.
Stuart Swan santa fe?
It’s a UP line.
trains actually do have "tires" on the wheels. only they're made of metal.
It's called a tire even though it's steel. So he is correct.
Thank you for being there with your cam to record this, I found it very educational. I run ngauge locos just like the one in your video and fortunately I just pick my loco up when it derails lol.
I don't understand why stupid people leave all these negative remarks you have been getting, if they cannot say anything constructive they should stay quiet or put up their own videos!
Thank you once more :-)
Very interesting.
@yofoghorn then how did the train stop within 100 yards of the curve?