Can Atheists Be Saved? w/ Fr. Gregory Pine
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- Опубліковано 12 тра 2023
- Fr. Pine talks about whether an atheist can be saved and what the different types of unbelief are.
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Former atheist here, we certainly can be saved.
Sadly in my case I was raised better, but I was persuaded by the atheist arguments.
The only thing that turned me around was how crazy things are getting.
The worse things get, the harder it becomes to deny the existence of not just evil, but the Devil himself.
I don't want to be a child of wrath, I want to be a child of God.
Working on becoming a catholic now.
I believe there's hope for all atheists.
"The only thing that turned me around was how crazy things are getting."
Boy, can I ever relate to this. I left the church in my early teens after being raised by kinda-Catholic parents. I truly felt like the world was removing it's shackles, and that all we had to do was what Nietzsche said 150 years ago: create a new system of values to replace religion.
And what has happened since then, and in the 20 years since the rise of the new atheist movement? Subversion. Subversion. Subversion. There is no sense of community, no moral compass, no system of common values. The atheists today do nothing but deify the self and imagine a Star Trek-esque utopia at the end.
EDIT: Even look in this comment section. Are the many atheists here offering a discussion? An attempt to understand? Even some kind of sympathy they pretend to have? No. Nothing but prideful backstabs. Do they think they're changing minds? No, they don't care.
@@Dan-km8zy Amen 🙏
@Dan I am not convinced that any god is a reality for I have never encountered any credible evidence that demonstrates such a reality.
Are you to say my uncertainty is the cause of the world's current problems?
@@Theo_Skeptomai What I said was that atheism has had well over a hundred years to replace what it has done nothing but deride, and what I see in the world now is nothing close to a path to community, mutual understanding, and unity in the world. Quite far from it. The proof is in the pudding.
And the answer to this problem? "Religion's fault."
But thank you for your asking me for clarification to my response. If you have any popular videos of atheists proposing systems for rebuilding the unity that religion provides, while simultaneously maintaining secular theory as the foundation, please let me know so I can stay educated on the state of things in that space.
Where sin abounds, grace abounds all the more
I'm glad I reverted back from atheism. Still falling short by not attending the sacraments enough and complaining way too much while giving too little praise to Our Lord.
Yours guys over Pints With Aquinas, as well as Aquinas 101 helped me through this reversion, so thank you very much!
Yo It's a Fellow Calvinist, God Bless You My Guy
Just curious (promise I won't start an argument with you), are you Calvinist or Catholic? Your comment seems Catholic, but your profile picture is John Calvin, so you just sort of have me scratching my head.
'Oh my Jesus, forgive us our sins. Save us from the fires of hell. Lead ALL souls to Heaven, especially those most in need of thy mercy.Amen.'
Amen
Amen
Amen!
Amen
Amen
Fr Gregory, you are brilliant! Thank you for your faith, all of your hard work and your sense of humor!!
The Dante joke was subtle but absolutely mint.
Thank you, Fr Pine, for this reminder. Because of my volunteer work at Church, each week God places souls under my care and He opens the doors of their hearts to hear what I have to say to them. It is a sobering thought. I have a grave duty towards these souls.
Please pray for me that at such times, the Holy Spirit will shed His Light on my mind and open my lips to proclaim the Gospel of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. I'm inadequate but I know that it is not I who converts hearts but it is The Holy Spirit Who does it through my efforts.
Lord, help me to evangelize those whom You put in my path. At the end of my life on earth grant that, by Your grace, I may have produced a hundredfold for Your harvest. And hear those wonderful words, "Well done, my good and faithful servant... come and share the joy of your master."
So I pretty much lived my life as a Christian from as far as I remember to about 5 years ago when I'd claimed I was atheist because I felt like my prayers had been ignored. A lot was going on in my life, I felt abandoned and sense I felt that God was ignoring me as well not only did my faith in him take a trip out the window but also did my faith in people in general. Well I had a revelation a few weeks ago and am trying to find my father again. I've noticed I'm not angry anymore and I feel more at peace, but I fear I've already punched my ticket to the lake of fire.
Wow, that was very detailed and concise! Bravo!
On 5/14/23 let us all take a break....2 all mothers around the world...HAPPY MOTHER'S DAY!!!! ENJOY YOUR SPECIAL DAY...PRAISE GOD FROM WHOM ALL BLESSINGS FLOW..PEACE
The thing that had led me to God is not necessarily that I found some proof that he was real (although I've found that too) but really just realizing that the Christian lifestyle leads to a healthy body and mind and allows one to understand their role in the universe and the meaning of life. Christianity is really a cosmic enlightenment.
this is beautiful. 🥰✝ We do have a purpose that is not just psychological or biological. We are not meaningless. Our lives are a part of His divine and perfect plan. You feel like your life has purpose, and the simplest explanation is that it does have purpose! I think other systems of belief can lead people to fulfillment, but I agree that a personal relationship with the living God is truly the most beautiful form of cosmic enlightenment. 🌌 Viva Cristo Rey. ♥✝
Unless they convert❤
It's all about converting people what if we convert to islam or buddisim
Yup
I was an atheist for 54 years. Raised that way. And born & raised as a Jew, too. People prayed for me. Protestants. Now I'm Catholic. Prayer is efficacious .
Blessings to you from our channel to yours always! ❤❤. And stay blessed always, praise be to God forever!
Father Pine
Nice to see you made it into the Magnificat booklet this month!!
Thank you, Father Pine. This is great advice. I pray for you, by name, every day. May God continue to bless you.
Only God knows no man can answer this question, I think those who assume they know the will and mind of God need not occupy this position. I certainly hope that all souls including my pathetic and worthless sinful soul can be saved.
Your soul is not worthless, otherwise God wouldn't have made it. It is good to be humble but to not call yourself worthless, for you are a child of God.
@@gunsgalore7571 This is correct. If we were completely worthless and truly undeserving of a savior at all he wouldn't have given us one. We do have worth and importance to God.
The first chapter of the Golden Legend talks about how those who never believed aren't even judged, just thrown right into Hell at the Last Judgment, without being given the time of day because they never gave the Lord the time.
How do you know Atheists haven’t given the Christian god a try. There are many atheists who are former Christians. When I was doubting my faith I begged god to reveal himself to me or give me a sign and I got nothing. But other people say that when they asked god revealed himself to them so why does your god pick and choose who he is going to reveal himself to? Especially since sometimes anything to know this god is actually there could save people’s faith.
@@briceidycierramarrujosmith4563Well the Bible states that God RESISTS the Proud but GIVES Grace to the Humble. Maybe Humble yourself before the Lord, and the Lord will show Himself to you.
Atheists can be saved by repenting, just like the rest of us.
Saved from which peril?
Saved from what exactly?
The biggest question I have is, isn't it possible to have faith in Christ as Logos without necessarily recognizing that should entail religious faith in Jesus -- in other words, that the "Anonymous Christian" is such because he believes in an "anonymous" Christ?
It's plausible to imagine a situation where someone's only experience of Christianity is of the interpretation where the Father's bloodlust can only be satisfied by Jesus letting the Father vent all His wrath on Himself instead of us, and their legitimate desire for truth, beauty, and justice is so offended by the falsity, ugliness, and unfairness of the interpretation that they reject Christianity outright.
To the extent that such a person could be saved, that would still be based in their positive desire for God as truth, beauty, and justice rather than in their ignorance -- the ignorance would just explain why their desire for truth, beauty, and justice actually made propositional belief in God more difficult under those specific circumstances.
@Brenda Myc It is, but my point is that someone who only knows heretical forms of Christianity might hate the heresy without realizing that there's a non-heretical form of Christianity out there that they wouldn't hate.
"isn't it possible to have faith in Christ"
A person can have faith in Christ the same way a person can have faith that their four leaf clover is lucky.
@@cnault3244 What a perfect example of how not to understand the word faith. =P
"Inculpable or invincible ignorance has never been and will never be a means of salvation. To be saved, it is necessary to be justified, or in the state of grace. In order to obtain sanctifying grace, it is necessary to have the proper dispositions for justification; that is, true divine faith in at least the necessary truths of salvation, confident hope in the divine Savior, sincere sorrow for sin, together with the firm purpose of doing all that God has commanded, et cætera. Now, these supernatural acts of faith, hope, charity, contrition, et cætera, which prepare the soul for receiving sanctifying grace, can never be supplied by invincible ignorance; and if invincible ignorance cannot supply the preparation for receiving sanctifying grace, much less can it bestow sanctifying grace itself. 'Invincible ignorance,' says Saint Thomas, 'is a punishment for sin.' (De Infid. Q. x., art. 1).
It is, then, a curse, but not a blessing or means of salvation...Hence Pius IX said, 'that were a man to be invincibly ignorant of the true religion, such invincible ignorance would not be sinful before God; that if such a person should observe the precepts of the Natural Law and do the will of God to the best of his knowledge, God, in His infinite mercy, may enlighten him so as to obtain eternal life; for, the Lord, Who knows the heart and the thoughts of men will, in His infinite goodness, not suffer anyone to be lost forever without his own fault.' Almighty God, Who is just condemns no one without his fault, puts, therefore, such souls as are in invincible ignorance of the truths of salvation, in the way of salvation, either by natural or supernatural means." (Father Michael Müller, The Catholic Dogma, 1888, Page 217-218)
Our Lady of Fatima, pray for them and for us.
Amen
Amen
@@edm-london1660 Who is claiming Mary to be God? Your comment seems totally misplaced.
I appreciate you trying to tackle this topic but you didn't reach a clear conclusion. If you are willing to discuss this you must also be honest enough to say it clearly. No an atheist can not be saved where he is.
To deny God is to reject him. If he is baptized and has knowledge of God he may convert; but convert he must because there is no salvation without supernatural Faith and Baptism.
Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Sess. 8, Nov. 22, 1439, ex cathedra:
“Whoever wishes to be saved, needs above all to hold the Catholic faith; unless each one preserves this whole and inviolate, he will without a doubt perish in eternity.”
Goodness, imagine getting to heaven, and finding out Richard Dawkins is already there. 😟
The famous Mafia Boss: "You did that to yourself" explanation :D What a great God you guys believe in...
Yup! Most theistic interpretations of Hell that you think are extreme are perfectly valid and sensible, even your straw-man, especially when compared to morally warped, confused libs and low IQ atheists who know nothing of justice. Cope, mald, and literally seethe.
I would say it's closer to typical sect tactics - scare them and promise solution and then gaslight them to keep them. The real question is if catholics can be saved from this
If they repent of their sin yes as others who repent of theirs do too. If they die that way, no
That's just an idea.
That's how they can be saved according to the abrahamic mythology.
How can they be saved from being denied entry into Valhalla?
How can they be saved from being denied entry into the Field of Reeds?
How can they be saved from being denied entry into the Elysium Fields?
extra ecclesiam nulla salus
Amen
Whats the TLDR ? anyone ?
It's fifteen minutes. If you don't have 8 minutes to watch on 150% speed l, how do you have time to wait for an answer?
@@marvalice3455 thankyou for replying albeit not answering.
First!
We live in a time where heaven is super easy to get to and it is extremely hard to go to hell. The zeitgeist is in contradiction with the Gospel...the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life.
I sure hope they can
Much better answer than that other guy.
I wish to witness the Truth, but I'm not a talker. I think I like strangers more than...
I believe courage is the answer. Does courage make something your neighbor considers easy, easy for you? Like talking to an individual person?
I know I am able to talk to the collective. I've never liked my own voice. I probably won't like this post in the future.
If you don't like to talk, then just type. Do you have one piece of good evidence that your god is real, rather than just imaginary? Just *one,* but specific enough and in enough detail that I can judge it for myself?
Or is that just what you were taught to believe as a child, and that's your only reason for believing it?
Are atheists epistemically capable of salvation? Yes if they stop suppressing the truth In unrighteousness and come to CHRIST! If you mean are unbelievers who reject Gods calling onto dying in their sins, then no they can’t. This is essential Christian doctrine. God bless!
Amen 🙏🙌
‘Atheists don’t believe in what I believe so they must be suppressing the truth’. Obviously Christians know there is no invisible being in the sky, they just say their is because they’re afraid of death and ceasing to exist.
How do you know that's truth?
@@RegebroRepairs I know it’s true because God revealed it. Without God as the foundation of truth how can anyone know anything is true?
🕊️🙏
We are saved. Saved from religious nonsense.
im thinking of writing my own sacred scripters about a man who talks to god in IHOP, i think the napkins at IHOP are the perfect writing material for my new sacred scriptures.
Slow day?
We don't need to be saved from anybody except religionists! Save yourself.
If there is one thing I know about myself, is that I can’t save myself.
Only if they WANT to be saved in which case they will need to convert and adhere to the Christian faith starting with baptism. Unfortunately for them many of them don’t want to be saved. So why would God force salvation on them? God respects our free will! That means however that there’s only one option for them and they ain’t going to like it at all and it’s eternal too! Sorry but Hell is not a giant party! 🤣🤣🤣 But even if God did give them salvation without their conversion and repentance, they wouldn’t be happy anyways simply because they will be eternally with and worshipping God whom they either didn’t believe in and/or they despised! So God gives them as well as the rest of us all what we ultimately want as far as our relationship with Him is concerned!
_Hell is not a giant party!_
Does it exist _at all?_ Does your god exist? Or is all of that just imaginary?
I'm an atheist. Do I _need_ to be "saved"? Saved from _what?_ Saved from your god? How about all of the other gods? Do I need to be saved from _them,_ too? After all, Muslims have their _own_ Hell. Have you been saved from _that_ one? That one isn't a "giant party," either, from what Muslims tell me. Do you worry about _that_ one?
Allah won't force salvation on you - well, if you don't think that threatening you with eternal torment isn't "force," at least (and, apparently, you _don't_ think that, huh?). So, are you going to start bowing down towards Mecca and praying to Allah five times a day? Or isn't that the religion that _you_ were taught to believe as a child?
You see the problem? Lots of different religions make lots of different promises and lots of different threats. _Every_ religion makes claims,... because claims are just so easy. But they can't _all_ be right. (They _can_ all be wrong, though.) So, how do we tell which, if any, of them are actually true?
How about *one piece of good evidence,* specific enough and in enough detail that I can judge it for myself, that your god is real, rather than just imaginary? Just *one,* please. Why is *one* too much to ask? After all, evidence is how we distinguish reality from delusion and wishful-thinking.
Alternately, I'd accept *one piece of good evidence* that _any_ of the magical/supernatural stories in the Bible actually happened. Your choice. And I will _give_ you a guy named Jesus who was crucified by the Romans.
Well? Why is *one* too much to ask? But it always is.
@Bill Garthright because it doesn't matter what anyone says, you'll never be proven wrong. It's written right into your attitude and complete dismissal and snark present in every single atheist that speaks like you do online. We can give you dozens of philosophical arguments and multiple scientific arguments proving that a single God is a more likely cause for the universe, but you guys don't want to hear it.
If you wanted to hear the arguments, you'd read books. If you read books, you'd be on here arguing against those points. But you're not, so I can only assume you haven't. God is merciful and patient, and He made it very clear that if you seek, you will find. Do some damn work and don't pick out fights online if you want to prove to us and yourself that you care to know the answer, because it's out there. Start looking and I'll start praying for you
@@Bill_GarthrightSo what’s your beef? You made my point! You don’t want to be saved because you don’t believe in it. Just like every atheist out there though you sound very angry and resentful at God whom you claim doesn’t exist. As far as other religions are concerned, I am not a Unitarian so every religion except the Catholic Church of which I belong to is false. If all religions were true I would be a religion syncretist instead of a Catholic! Also just because God doesn’t pop up for all to see doesn’t mean he doesn’t exist. Even in science, absence of direct evidence doesn’t mean evidence of absence. Otherwise Darwinism would have to thrown out of science as well because there’s no proof of that or of atheism either. You are just as faith based as I am. At least I am honest to admit I have faith. In the end Pascal’s wager applies. Even if there’s no God and no afterlife, live here on Earth as if there is one because if you die living a sinful life because you didn’t believe in an afterlife and it turns out you ended up in Hell forever there’s no do-overs! Is that a chance worth taking? I guess if you’re a risk taker, the ultimate risk taker.
@@spencermarkham1
_You made my point!_
As far as I can tell, you don't even know what your point was supposed to _be._ You're just throwing everything at the wall in the hope that something will stick. Well, it's just garbage, so all you're going to do is make a mess.
_You don’t want to be saved because you don’t believe in it._
How can that even make _sense_ to you? It's like saying that I don't want a pot of gold from magic leprechauns because I don't believe that magic leprechauns are real. Well, I don't. But I'd _still_ want a pot of gold.
Yes, I think that pot of gold is entirely imaginary, so I'm not going to base my financial future on it. But if I'm wrong, show me the evidence. I'll _gladly_ take that pot of gold.
_Just like every atheist out there though you sound very angry and resentful at God whom you claim doesn't exist._
Just like every theist, you simply imagine whatever you _want_ to be true, huh? I've never claimed that your god _doesn't_ exist. After all, _any_ invisible, immaterial, magical being - let alone one that was supposed to be all-knowing and all-powerful - would be the all-time world champion at hide-and-seek.
I'm evidence-based, and I can't even _imagine_ what kind of evidence there could be - even hypothetically - that an invisible, immaterial, magical being _doesn't_ exist, somewhere. Heck, I don't even claim that magic leprechauns _don't_ exist. I just think it's pretty silly to believe in magic leprechauns _or_ gods without good evidence that they're real.
And, obviously, I'm no more angry at God than I'm angry at magic leprechauns. How could I be? That's just silly.
_I am not a Unitarian so every religion except the Catholic Church of which I belong to is false._
Every religion except the one known for raping kids? The one known for helping child rapists find fresh victims? Or just the one _you_ were taught to believe as a child? Is the child raping just incidental for you, or a requirement?
_Also just because God doesn’t pop up for all to see doesn’t mean he doesn’t exist._
Just because magic leprechauns don't pop up for all to see doesn't mean _they_ don't exist, either. Does that mean you believe in magic leprechauns, now?
_Even in science, absence of direct evidence doesn’t mean evidence of absence. Otherwise Darwinism would have to thrown out of science_
Heh, heh. Wow, you really _are_ ignorant, aren't you? But you said you were Catholic, right? The Catholic Church _does_ accept evolution (which is what I assume you mean by that silly "Darwinism").
_You are just as faith based as I am._
Heh, heh. Right. You've got all the silly catch-phrases down pat, don't you? But I'm glad you agree with me that faith-based thinking is wrong, at least. So why not become evidence-based? Why not try to apportion your beliefs to the *evidence?*
_In the end Pascal’s wager applies._
Oh, god, that is the _dumbest_ of dumb arguments.
_Even if there’s no God and no afterlife, live here on Earth as if there is one because if you die living a sinful life because you didn’t believe in an afterlife and it turns out you ended up in Hell forever there’s no do-overs!_
And _that's_ why you bow down towards Mecca and pray to Allah five times a day, then?
Anyway, I asked you for one piece of good evidence - *one!* - but that was too much for you. You didn't even _try._ You rattled off a whole Gish Gallop of nonsense you've undoubtedly heard from religious apologists, but you didn't even _try_ to present *ONE PIECE OF GOOD EVIDENCE.*
You didn't bother to answer any of my questions, either. There's no indication you even _read_ my comment. You just went flat-out hysterical, huh?
Well, _that's_ why I can't take your religious beliefs seriously. Undoubtedly, it would take more than one piece of good evidence to actually convince me, but without even *one,* I can't even take that stuff _seriously._
If it's not just wishful-thinking, it's certainly _indistinguishable_ from wishful-thinking. And I could hear the same kind of silly nonsense from Muslims, Hindus, Mormons, Moonies, Scientologists, Raelians, and every other religion in the world.
Someday, maybe, you'll start to care about the _truth_ of your beliefs. But,... who knows? I can't make you care about the truth, and I wouldn't, even if I could. I just find it very sad.
Saved from your ancient war-god. By the way he was married to Asherah and had a brother called Baal. Son of El. He's man-made.
"Can Atheists Be Saved?"
Saved from what?
Saved from their evil, fictional, God. Which we already are, since we don't believe in it.
Oh I'm sure the comment section will be a fun one here.
And so it has proved!!🤣
It's amazing how many people jumped the gun and just post a comment without even watching the video in its entirety. Like, are you people infants?
Well, to be fair, we are all spiritual infants to some degree...😅
-Not all who say "Lord, Lord" shall enter the Kingdom, but those who do the will of the father
It's not about beliefs, it's about who you are and what you do
Men who have the opportunity to know have an obligation to learn. "If any man wishes to be saved must, before all else, hold the Catholic faith: for unless each one maintains it whole and inviolate, he will certainly perish in eternity. - Athanasian Creed. Denzinger 75. (Historically directly attributed to St. Athanasius, but modern scholars think he is responsible for the formula, not the exact words).
❤❤❤
You don't know. I'm willing to take the risk.
the philosopher Paul Ricoeur considered Nietzche, Marx and Freud far better examples of truly Christian spirit than most selfavowed Christians who deigned to attack them..
I didn’t know Christ preach the idea of an “ubermensch.” I guess it’s somewhere buried in the Gospels! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I guess Leo XIII was wrong then? Yeah right
These 3 out of all men and women? Wow.
You're completely contradicting youself.
If getting into heaven is the most important objective, then we should strive to kill as many children as possible, since when they reach adulthood, they may sin.
For example if a child is sick, you shouldn't give then medicine, since if they die they go to heaven.
This why belief in heaven and hell is not only false, but dangerous and will lead to many murders if people will actually consider the implications of heaven and hell existing.
Depends on if they fulfill any of the biblical requirements.
[CU]Believing In Christ
[C]John 3:16
[C]For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten so . So that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
[C]Acts 16:31
[C]And they said believe in the lord Jesus and your whole household will be saved.
[CU]Repentance
[C]Acts 2:38
[C]Repent and he baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins and you will receive the gift of The Holy Spirit.
[C]2 Peter 3:9
[C]The lord does not delay his promise as some regard delay. But he is patient with you. Not wishing that anyone should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
[CU]Baptism
[C]John 3:5
[C]Jesus answered. Amen, amen I say to you. No one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of Water and the spirit.
[C]1 Peter 3:21
[C]This prefigured baptism which saves you now. It is not a removal of dirt from the body, but an appeal to God for a clear conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
[CU]Work Of The Spirit
[C]2 Corinthians 3:6
[C]who has indeed qualified us as ministers of a new covenant, not of letter but of spirit;(D) for the letter brings death, but the Spirit gives life.
[CU]Declaring With Our Mouths
[C]Luke 12:8
[C] I tell you, everyone who acknowledges me before others the Son of Man will acknowledge before the angels of God.
[C]Romans 10:9
[C] for, if you confess[e] with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved
[CU]Truth Knowledge
[C]1 Timothy 2:4
[C] who wills everyone to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth.
[C]Hebrews 10:26
[C] If we sin deliberately after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins.
[CU]Maintaining The Faith
[C]Colossians 1:22-23
[C] he has now reconciled in his fleshly body through his death, to present you holy, without blemish, and irreproachable before him. provided that you persevere in the faith, firmly grounded, stable, and not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, am a minister.
[C]Matthew 24:13
[C]But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved
[CU]Continuing To Do Good Wor
[C]Romans 2:6
[C] who will repay everyone according to his works:
[C]John 5:28-29
[C] Do not be amazed at this, because the hour is coming in which all who are in the tombs will hear his voice(S) 29 and will come out, those who have done good deeds to the resurrection of life, but those who have done wicked deeds to the resurrection of condemnation.
[C]James 2:24
[C] See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
[CU]Grace
[C]Ephesians 2:8
[C] For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God;
[C]Acts 15:11
[C] On the contrary, we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus,(G) in the same way as they
[CU]Christs Blood
[C]Romans 5:9
[C] How much more then, since we are now justified by his blood, will we be saved through him from the wrath.
[C]Hebrews 9:22
[C] According to the law almost everything is purified by blood,(P) and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
[CU]His Righteousness
[C]Romans 5:17
[C] For if, by the transgression of one person, death came to reign through that one, how much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of justification come to reign in life through the one person Jesus Christ.
[C]2 Peter 1:1
[C] Symeon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have received a faith of equal value to ours through the righteousness of our God and savior Jesus Christ:
[CU] His Cross
[C]Ephesians 2:16
[C] and might reconcile both with God, in one body, through the cross, putting that enmity to death by it.
[CU]The Eucharist
[C]John 6: 30-40
[C]35 [a]Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me will never hunger, and whoever believes in me will never thirst.(A) 36 But I told you that although you have seen [me], you do not believe.(B) 37 Everything that the Father gives me will come to me, and I will not reject anyone who comes to me, 38 because I came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of the one who sent me.(C) 39 And this is the will of the one who sent me, that I should not lose anything of what he gave me, but that I should raise it [on] the last day.(D) 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him may have eternal life, and I shall raise him [on] the last day.”(E)
Maintain the faith/ Perseverance to the end.
1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us rid ourselves of every burden and sin that clings to us[b] and persevere in running the race that lies before us 2 while keeping our eyes fixed on Jesus, the leader and perfecter of faith. For the sake of the joy that lay before him he endured the cross, despising its shame, and has taken his seat at the right of the throne of God. 3 Consider how he endured such opposition from sinners, in order that you may not grow weary and lose heart. 4 In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood.
Hebrews 12: 1-4
j] 12 So then, my beloved, obedient as you have always been, not only when I am present but all the more now when I am absent, work out your salvation with fear and trembling.[k] 13 For God is the one who, for his good purpose, works in you both to desire and to work. 14 Do everything without grumbling or questioning, 15 that you may be blameless and innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation,[l] among whom you shine like lights in the world, 16 as you hold on to the word of life, so that my boast for the day of Christ may be that I did not run in vain or labor in vain. 17 But, even if I am poured out as a libation[m] upon the sacrificial service of your faith, I rejoice and share my joy with all of you. 18 In the same way you also should rejoice and share your joy with me.
Philippians 2
God works in mysterious ways. So it’s a grey area, but for many this is biblical salvation.
That question doesn't even make sense. Anyone can get saved.
Are you saying anyone can repent of atheism and be converted or are you saying atheists can be saved without being converted to Christ?
It seems maybe you are coming at this from a protestant angle.
When a catholic talks about being saved we are usually not talking about a moment in the past that changed our lives. We're talking about persevering to the end and dying in friendship with God. At death, you are either saved or damned.
So really the question is asking, if an atheist dies can he be saved? I believe the answer is, by God's mercy anything is possible, but that he didn't live a life of faith which is a sign of one's final perseverance.
He means them dying unbelieving and unrepentant dear. The answer is no
Of course they can. An honest atheist is more able to be saved than a dishonest "Christian."
The key word here is "honest." Many people are unable to believe in God because they were absolutely savaged by the Powers in charge of this world and, with complete honesty and integrity, are unable to believe that a reigning God would allow such things to happen to them. I am absolutely confident that a just, loving God sees their situation and in His perfect justice, will judge their situations according to their individual circumstances.
God loves us, and His justice is perfect. Amen.
An honest atheist is honest in his disbelief? Vs I believe in my weakness and take a leap of faith.
So honesty saves you? What Revelation are you making up?
@@kenkuzdak All I'm saying is that God is perfect, and that His justice is perfect. Want to argue with that? Cheers!
@@wendyposh7714 Yes, all we believers take a leap of faith, based on our weakness.
Look, all I'm saying is that God has a spot in His heart for the little girl who's been sex-trafficked for years and who is simply unable to consider that there might be a God after all she's been through.
God's justice is absolutely perfect. He will never, in a million years, convict the innocent person who's been savaged past the limits of human endurance.
I believe in a God who gave his only begotten son to die for us, that we might have everlasting life.
His justice is perfect. That is my belief, and I stand upon it.
@@rhight an honest atheist has a better chance to be saved than a leap of faith. A wounded soul is different than a rejection of Christ. A Christian has step forward in their profession of faith to say yes I am living for Christ. I had a friend who was confirmed this last Easter she took the name Magdalena who had a checkered past but loved Christ. So she has a less of a chance to be “saved” compared to an atheist
So many #AngryAtheists in the comments. "Where's your evidence?" Everywhere, look around you.
can atheists be saved? yes
will they be saved if they stay on their course until death? Most most likely, not.
To the clickbait title… ANYONE can be saved….
And anyone can NOT be saved also. Pay attention!
I think it's more specifically about someone who dies an atheist
@@volusian95 yes that's what he meant
Just the concept of hell [a place were you are tortured over and over again forever] rules out any loving God.
That's not how he'll works, but sure.
@@fromthesouthofafrica6815
As there is no hell I agree.
Well, it's the christian love and as the old wisdom goes: no stronger hate than christian love
Hello. I am an atheist. I define atheism as suspending any acknowledgement as to the existence of a god until sufficient evidence is introduced. My position is that *_I have no good reason to acknowledge the existence of gods._*
And here is the evidence as to why I currently hold to such a position. Below are 10 facts I must consider when evaluating the claim made by theists that a god exists. To be clear, these are not premises for an argument concluding there to be no gods. These are simply facts I take into account when evaluating the claim.
1. I personally have never observed a god.
2. I have never encountered a person whom has claimed to have observed a god.
3. I know of no accounts of persons claiming to have observed a god that were willing or able to demonstrate or verify their observation for authenticity, accuracy, or validity.
4. I have never been presented a valid logical argument which also employed sound premises that lead deductively to a conclusion that a god(s) exists.
5. Of the 46 logical syllogisms I have encountered arguing for the existence of a god(s), I have found all to contain either fallacies or false or unsubstantiated premises.
6. I have never observed a phenomenon in which the existence of a god was a necessary antecedent for the known or probable explanation for the causation of that phenomenon.
7. Several proposed (and generally accepted) explanations for observable phenomena that were previously based on the agency of a god(s), have subsequently been replaced with rational, natural explanations, each substantiated with evidence that excluded the agency of a god(s). I have never encountered _vice versa._
8. I have never experienced the presence of a god through intercession of angels, divine revelation, the miraculous act of divinity, or any occurrence of a supernatural event.
9. Every phenomena that I have ever observed has *_emerged_* from necessary and sufficient antecedents over time without exception. In other words, I have never observed a phenomenon (entity, process, object, event, process, substance, system, or being) that was created _ex nihilo_ - that is instantaneously came into existence by the solitary volition of a deity.
10. All claims of a supernatural or divine nature that I have encountered have either been refuted to my satisfaction, or do not present as falsifiable.
ALL of these facts lead me to the only rational conclusion that concurs with the realities I have been presented - and that is the fact that there is *_no good reason_* for me to acknowledge the existence of a god.
I have heard often that atheism is the denial of the Abrahamic god. But denial is the active rejection of a substantiated fact once credible evidence has been presented. Atheism is simply withholding such acknowledgement until sufficient credible evidence is introduced. *_It is natural, rational, and prudent to be skeptical of unsubstantiated claims, especially extraordinary ones._*
I welcome any cordial response. Peace.
I'd welcome a cordial dialogue.
1. Depends on what counts as observation. Would you accept that you might see something but not recognize it as God's work?
2. I'm sure you have met people, or at least heard of them, who claim to observe God's action in the world, but from your later statements, I assume you discount their testimony as otherwise explainable.
3. As above. I assume you're looking for a scientific proof. Which requires repeatability. Which, by definition, is not miraculous.
4. You exist. The universe exists. The cause of existence is defined as "God." Not to be confused with a bearded sky-father. That's Zeus. We're not talking about Zeus.
5. Fair enough. Logical fallacies are easy to make.
6. That's because God is not an antecedent within the universe, he/it is the cause of existence. By definition. You can discard the term "God" if you like as too freighted with historical/religious baggage, but even as a materialist, you must agree that you exist and that there is an objective reality that can be studied and known. The question is, what is that function that makes existence, and that makes it follow rules? What do you call that which creates the rules of nature, like relativity and quantum mechanics?
7. Those rational, natural explanation are based in the idea of a rational universe. That rational--following reason--universe is what monotheists call "creation."
8. This gets to the crux of the Abrahamic (vice Deist) God... is God not just a force but a person, with whom one can have a relationship? This is a challenging claim, and rather than scientific evidence, one would have to point to historical and personal experience. The miracles recorded in scripture are, of course, unverifiable, and their supernaturalness is what makes them miraculous. What you and I are more likely to experience is not a miracle, but a quiet interior voice that points in the direction of the Good. We ask ourselves the question, "what is the Good in this situation?" and we intuit an answer drawn from our understanding of God's moral laws. The more we know God (the moral law), the better we "hear" his voice.
9. This may be how God works in most cases, within the laws of the universe he created. Perhaps, if God does take miraculous action on occasion, he does so extremely judiciously, because to do otherwise would alter the laws of the universe. Perhaps he knows that miracles just aren't that convincing, because skeptics will find some way to explain them away.
10. It appears to me like what you seek is proof by miracle. But perhaps that is not the only path to a belief in a deity.
Personally, I think a lot of this discussion gets twisted by the baggage of bad theology and history. "God," as a term, has been used to justify atrocities and bureaucratic monstrosities. But that doesn't mean the concept itself is untrue. The Abrahamic religions teach that humans are fallible and prone to ignorance and corruption. That's easily observed as a materialist.
Start with a basic premise that the universe exists as an objective reality that follows rules. That's the scientific assumption. Now call whatever the reason for that "God." Or something else if you like. That's deism, the clock-maker God. Now take as a possibility that the laws of the universe include not just physical laws, but also moral laws. What is good and bad. Simple stuff, like not abusing children or not causing pain for pleasure. Assume, like physics, we only have a weak grasp on what those laws really are, but we can learn:from Copernicus to Einstein, from Democritus to Heisenberg, from Moses to Aquinas.
Reexamine the "scriptures" not as a a story about God's work in the world, but as a recording of humanity trying to understand how God works, what those moral laws are. First, we think it's following a bunch of rules and obeying the HMFIC so we win the wars and have good harvests. Then we learn that the HMFIC is corruptable, and needs to be called out. Then we learn that following the rules isn't enough, you have to be right in your heart, and repent, and forgive. Don't be a hypocrite. Love others as much as yourself. Value everyone, slave or king, as equally worthy and equally fallible. Don't assume the guy with the money is the one who will die happy.
Even if Christ's divinity, resurrection, etc, are too miraculous to accept, can you consider that there might by moral rules to the universe just as there are physical rules, and that they may be just as fundamental, universal, and discoverable by science (observation and deduction), but that unlike science, they aren't discovered by testing in a lab, but by the historical and personal experience of conscious beings? If there are physical laws, then there is a reason for there being physical laws. If there are moral laws, there is a reason for there being moral laws. Call it "Flying Spaghetti Monster." Or "God." Or "I am."
1-10. "I" is subjective, you can only speak of your experience, not others. Billions of people over the millennia's have experienced G-d .You/atheists are an exception to the rule. I would encourage you to review the "officially declared miracles" of the Catholic Church which elevates saints to Saints. I recommend start with the miracles of Lourdes and millennium Blessed Carlo Acutis. These are only "officially declared" after years of investigation by a Vatican board which includes atheist and non-atheist professionals eg Dr, specialists oncologists, psychologists and psychiatrists
If you substitute “electrons”or “protons”’ instead of “god”’one could make the same argument, yet you use electrons and protons everyday and see their effect. You , however , don’t deny their existence. Similarly, we see the effect of the ONE TRUE GOD every day, it’s just that believers acknowledge in humility that we need not hold protons, electrons or God for that matter for proof of existence.
The principle of “first cause” is a logical proof of God
@@Crusader33ad Indeed, faith in an objective physical reality which can be studied and known is the a priori assumption of science. The theist adds a faith in an objective moral reality, which can also be discovered. And just as physical reality is mind-bogglingly stranger than our everyday intuition would suggest, it is not unreasonable to suggest that the moral laws may be just as outlandish to common sense. Even a shallow familiarity with modern physics should humble one's confidence in pronouncing, based on their own experience, what is "real."
The recurring argument against God is that it adds an unnecessary being to the universe, rather than an understanding that God is not a being in the universe, but by definition the cause of existence itself. It then falls to the theist to explain why that deist cause is also a personal, historical being.
@@NathanPK - Nathan, that was extremely helpful. Very cogent and logical. I look forward to our atheist friend’s response
No
That is a very blunt answer you think you know than a priest
Can atheists be saved? Saved from _what?_ From your god?
Tell me, does "Heaven" exist? Does your god exist? I'm sure that _you_ believe this stuff, but do you have any good evidence that it's actually _real?_
I don't care what your book says, since lots of books say lots of different things. And I don't care what your church says, because lots of different religions say lots of different things. Are any of those things true? Because _that's_ what I care about.
Do you have *one piece of good evidence,* specific enough and in enough detail that I can judge it for myself, that your god is real, rather than just imaginary? Just *one?* Why is *one* too much to ask? After all, as I'm sure you know, evidence is how we distinguish reality from delusion and wishful-thinking.
_"we also don't entertain magical thinking just because it will make us feel better"_
The irony of that is just... astonishing to me. Worldwide, faith-based people _overwhelmingly_ tend to believe in whatever religion and whatever god or gods they were taught to believe as a child, since that's what makes them feel better.
Now, maybe _you_ weren't raised Christian, maybe _you_ weren't raised Catholic, but that's certainly a very good bet. But if you _don't_ entertain magical thinking just because it will make you feel better, does that mean you have actual _evidence_ backing up your religious beliefs?
I'd love to hear just *one* specific example, if so. I'm not interested in a Gish Gallop of vague claims. But if you can make your case with just *one,* I'd be surprised (and impressed).
There's plenty of evidence for the existence of God. Seek and you shall find. Research Eucharistic miracles, incorruptible bodies, Fatima, Tilma of Guadalupa, Lourdes France, the lives of the Saints like Padre Pio, St. Faustina, John Bosco, Therese of Liseaux. For a more scientific method style, research the Mitochondrial Eve, Cymatics, Genetic Entropy, The Golden Ratio, the Rice Experiment by Dr. Emoto. The archeological digs of Ron Wyatt and his discoveries of the Pillars of Solomon, the Tower of Babel, etc. The memory of water. How nature reacts to Christianity, ex. bees wont build hives over Holy images, animals bow down to the Eucharist etc.
Read Thomas Aquinas
I agree with the notion that the faithful who think they are entitled to our time and effort, just to please their image of our salvation, are incredibly detached from reality. Go read X if you don believe me - yeah, because my entire life revolves around a random dude trying to convert me and I don't have anything more interesting/important to do.
With that being said: nobody asked so propably you chose a wrong place for your comment
@@fromthesouthofafrica6815
_Read Thomas Aquinas_
Why? Have _you_ read Thomas Aquinas? If so, it must be useless, since _you_ still don't have even *one* piece of good evidence, apparently.
Either you haven't read Aquinas yourself or else it was completely useless to you. Either way, that's not a particularly good recommendation!
@@Mish844
Well, I enjoy talking to intelligent people who disagree with me about religion. And there aren't any _good_ places for that. So I just have to try in all the bad places. :)