@@PatrickRemington I think he is talking about the constant pop up adds. But thats youtube.. Thanks for the great video!! How is the rocket exchanger going? :)
A great tip for keeping the copper pipe from kinking is to use regular fine table salt. It can be hard to remove the sand as it compacts. With salt you can flush it out, since it’s water soluble, just connect your garden hose, and turn it up, just a little bit, and kick back and enjoy a beer, while the water works for you 👍🏽
In plumbing work, especially in normally cold environments, I would anneal the copper pipe shortly before bending (using a pipe bender, or by hand (in case of soft rolled copper). Annealing : Either lay it in the sun (Europe and Northern climates are usually quite cold inside a room / workshop). I'm south of the eqautor, so 20 - 30 minutes in the sun, will almost require gloves to handle copper pipe.. Using a blow torch to just raise the temperature by 20 deg C, about one meter at a time, then bend / coil, will help. The salt inside the pipe, for concentric coils, is also a great tip, that I have not tried yet, but have been advised to try.
@@charlesrock7770, I would never bend a frozen pipe. Whether it will run under pressure or even under atmospheric pressure. Bending cold pipes may cause cracking, on inside and outside of the bend, both sides of the pipe wall. Sand or salt, and annealing to slightly above room temp / ambient (max about 35 - 45°C), will ease the bending effort, and make the metal not susceptible to cracking or folds, or losing shape.
@@lewishamilton9577 You need a big heat differential for that. Which you will eventually get, of course. But boiling water in the tube is 30% less efficient than pumping it: (550-212) ÷ (550-70) = 70%. So 30% longer to heat and more woid. But for use of grid it's a good choice. But it isn't convection. It's a primitive steam engine, like a drip coffee maker.
pumping is better and eats just 30w watts to circulate enough to warm all rooms, but with check valves it's easy to create emergency bypass for securing the flow without electricity. Mine works not enough to feed system, but enough to not explode and to temper the tank through the night. So starting the heating at morning is faster as the water is warm already
Typically you enter cold water at the bottom to not fight natural convection. Cool build. I am starting a build video for a large stainless rocket stove with integrated water jacket. Also I suggest pushing MIG. You will have better results. Cheers
You would if you were doing a passive setup. Just did a video on this. The pump is moving water so fast that it doesn't matter but my thinking was that it should enter at the top (coldest) and travel down the 10ft of coil to the bottom (hottest) and then exit back to the Jerry can. It honestly probably doesn't matter that much at all tho
Bonus of using a bump and going coldest to hottest at the bottom is the hottest water is closest to the fire. Fish gills and many heat exchangers, both operate this way.
Aye, that way if the water in the coil starts to boil, it increases convection so it doesn't run away too quickly. It essentially self-regulates up to a point. Forcing water through it with a pump ends up being less about transferring useful heat into water and more about cooling the flue gas down, because the water just doesn't have a lot of time to absorb heat energy any more. You could do it with a variable-speed temp-sensing pump setup, but that's little better than natural convection. It's like putting a crazy water pump on your car, it can actually make the engine overheat, because the coolant in the engine is going through it too fast for it to absorb anything.
You use opposite medium flow directions to maximise heat transfer, but I would assume (without doing the math) that in this case, it does not really matter since it's not built for max efficiency anyway. Therefore, cold water going in on top is not a design flaw. Also, natural convection should be negligible. Tube is long and thin, height difference is small, which results in low convective forces and high friction.
@PatrickRemington I, too thought you were backwards. Though using it for showering it makes sense. Pump moves the water fast enough to not get to hot.. giving a perfect shower water temperature. The reverse would be better if you were Storing hot water. You would want it to be screaming hot.
Awesome project! Only on suggestion....Connect the the botom conector instead of the top one as inlet of cold water. Will be less likely to have any air trapped and the cooper will be safely coolled by liquid.
Yeah, I normally would have the pump running before lighting the stove that way the copper never gets hot before the water hits it. I was thinking the water should go from The top (coolest) down to the hottest then exit.
@@PatrickRemington Doing as Nicolas said could offer to use the heat motion to circulate the water instead of the pump may be ? Of course unless the tank is higher than the rocket you'd still need to use the pump at first. What do you think ? Also, tell me if I'm wrong, but for me a rocket is the fact that wood burn 2 times (wood and gaz included) at almost 100%, I don't think that's the case here which make your stove a stove and not a rocket stove, am I wrong ? Thanks a lot, you're the king
@@PatrickRemington Thanks for the reply. Well as heat exchangers go. The best efficiencie is with cross circulation... The coldest agaist the hottest. The biggest the temp diff, the better for exchange.
No need for a pump if you run the inlet low and the outlet high. Thermosiphon will move the water with no mechanical means being used! Clever idea just the same 😊
I've seen a few of these and this is by far the best one! I love the legs for stability. I would only experiment with a few small things to try to get more heat into the copper pipes. 1. Make the smoke stack taller by 6"-12" 2. Add external and internal copper pipe. To allow the copper pipe to be coiled around the outside before it goes up in the inside coil before it leaves the stove. 3. Add insulation around the external copper pipe and stove to keep the heat energy focused back on the copper pipe. 4. See if you could make it operate without having to use a pump, but that might change the 2x copper pipe idea as you don't want to get vapor lock and have it burst.
That's fantastic! Now all ya need to do is scale it up with a bigger stove, tubing and cheap or free water heater with a blown regulator or something to make enough water for a nice, long shower! Or maybe for a hillbilly hot tub!
This is an absolutely awesome idea! An hour is a long time to have to run your pump. You know, if you put a fitting down about 6 inches from the bottom of your Jerry Can and reverse your flow of water, you don't need to use the pump. Cold water from the bottom of the van goes into the lower fitting of the exchanger. As the water heats it rises and goes out the top of the exchanger to the top of the can. The water will flow naturally. The biggest problem with heating water this way is you have to have a way to introduce cold water into the hot, in the shower line to prevent getting scalded. Also need to make sure you have a steam pop off valve on the can. As for your quick connects use an E3F3-B and a E3F3-B pressure washer coupler and nipple set.
Thanks for the ideas! The pump only ran for about 30min total but only needed about 20min didn't even use half the battery. I am going to see how well passive heat exchange would work. I think it will be slower.
@@PatrickRemington it will start slower, but I. The long run it will actually heat quicker because the water will not have to cycle repeatedly through the exchanger. With passive, you will need to prime your lines, but that should be easy enough by making sure your water level is higher in the jug than the top of the coil pack.
If you put a one-way valve on the lower pipe of the heat exchange and prime the unit you won't need the 12v pump till it's time to shower as the water heats it will drawer through and flow out the top back into the tank drrawering more cool water into the system.
Awesome! I had a very similar idea for a harvested heat water heater living off grid about a decade ago, SO damn satisfying to see the same general idea actually built.
Wow this blew my mind what a wonderful build. On your detachable parts at the bottom you could leave a inch and a half legth from the bottom of the coil and and your stove on the outer serface weld a inch and a half cage around it and plug the detachables in like vacuum cleaner detachable heads
My only suggestion comes at the end with the cross brace for cooking pans. Since your longest can is 10" you should use the same simple cross technique on top but having the longer bars reaching further out will allow for a more stable cook top for your pans. Very cool portable unit!
I’ve been waiting for this video since I saw the short. I really enjoy my electronic pump shower can. I commented there how I used the concept but modified to my needs. I thought I might build something similar like a box with the copper coil and handle that I can drop into a fire pit or place on the large camp stove. A little more portable since space is a premium! Heat exchanger box. I will probably add an insulated bag over my can to speed up the heating increase the retention of heat developed. Thanks for all the time you put in to share your ideas and finished product.
This is fantastic and I am interested in building same.. One issue that will develop over time (I believe) is the buildup of creosote on the copper coil. I think the coil should bot be in direct contact with flame. What I was planning on doing was to put the copper on the outside and cover over with cement/vermiculate to insulate and help heat the copper. Worth looking into.
The basic concept sounds like something I would otherwise like try a build of in a few years, after an operation-use review. ...I will hold off on watching. It's awesome to know that true efficiency (societally) is starting occur.
two suggestions : Use pressurized tank like they use on backpack sprayers to have a shower .. or secondary pumped air tank. That way you don't need electricity. And water inlets to your can/tank at bottom and top for natural circulation. EDT. And should next prohibition era hit .. you only need second module for cooling ;) For quality product there is lot off applied physic and chemistry to observe and follow but still, still is a still . . (even for water purification)
I definitely like this better than the round style you built afterwards. I have it on my future or potential projects list now...thanks for the work man!!! 😀
Well looking at this stove reminds me of a little camping rocket stove that you could charge your phone with! I would think it would take this stove to the next level! Cooking,water heater and phone charger what’s not to like!
aussietim7974 There’s a few very good reasons to have a phone with when you’re remote! Injuries serious injuries it would be nice to just make a call rather then crawl 10 miles or carry the same! If spot a lightning strike or other reason for a fire 🔥 calling it in early might save lives and livelihood! Late spring or early fall show storm it there hunting you with snow machines you could hear them and guide them to you with guess what! Right your dam phone! One thing l do know about Australia is if all the women left Australia the men wouldn’t know it for 24 hours! 🍻
@@aussietim7974as a boy-scout, (leader/adult now) sometimes we bring the youngest out.. I bet the parents don't mind the leaders using their phones in case of emergency :)
The latch you installed around 20:30 could've been installed differently so it does create a pinching fit. You need to attach the latch and hook slightly further apart so they pull more on eachother when pressing the latch down. With time and use it'll relax the metal and the fit won't be as tight, but bending the metal back is easy with some apprentice hammering skills.
This is a great piece, but I'm curious why you choose to bring the cold water in at the top of the coil rather than the bottom. It could even eliminate the need for a pump, eliminating a possible failure mode.
Well the portable shower already has a 12v pump so that’s why I’m using a pump and I was thinking the water should go from the coldest part of the coil down to the hottest part then exit. It probably doesn’t make much of a difference since the pump is moving the water so quickly. If you want to do passive heat exchange the plumbing would have to be completely different.
I recently purchased a small used wood kiln. Thinking about something like this to help offset the heat in the kiln. Especially while setting the pitch. Plus burn my waste. Need to find a used pellet mill. Like the idea for heating a shed or shower water.
The copper 'work hardens' when you straighten it out before recoiling it, an unnecessary step. Try to fill it while in original big, loose coil (that is barely extended like a spring) then work from center out tightening the coil around a burnished round stake (clean pipe). Then solder 90 degree corners on or other ends as desired. You did a great job. My suggestions are slight improvements in the work flow.
Pretty cool I wonder what it would be like with a triple layer coil in it was like 3/8 tubing mandrel bent (fill the tubing with water and freeze it or fill it full of sand and heat bend it) in order to get it a tighter radius
Thermosiphoning has been mentioned a bunch already. My concern is melting through the copper with high heat over time. My first thought is to consider putting the coil outside the riser pipe. Then I thought about maybe doing an inner sleeve filled with a perlite cement mix to protect the pipe and also hold the heat over time so you don’t boil your water but can continue to have reasonable heating of the water over time without having to keep the fire burning.
To help ease the difficulty of coiling the copper tubing. You can anneal it with a propane torch. Copper tube is work hardened from the manufacturing process. So you can soften it by the annealing process, making it way easier to coil tightly.
So, I have been thinking about this idea for a few years. My family and I will be moving to Alaska in a couple years. We are planting a church in remote Alaska and will be building our own homestead. So, I thought of this idea to help with heating the home (ie heated floors), main water heater, and to help heat a 3 season/year round green house. I figure with enough plastic 55 gallon drums of water around the parameter of the green house, among other natural insulation. Circulating hot water constantly throughout that system could help to keep the green warm enough to keep plants alive. I don't know if it will work in practice, but that is my theory.
I build the same thing 6 years ago but with a ammo can . I have 5 daughters and my wife’s number one complaint while camping was the shower. The one we had was that useless bag thing. Though, putting it next to the fire with sand covering it with hot rocks is a great way to warm those up when theres not enough sun to do the job . So I took a 40mm can I had and have removable plates with coiled copper just like you have here . Normally just used steam and gravity for water pressure. Though I really like your 12v pump . Gonna borrow that idea for ours .
Congrats very cool ! just a word of caution : Never pump water into an already hot coil , fill with water first. Also, I hope nobody is tempted to add valves as bells and whistles to tis great and simple design.
The stove is already awesome, but then you had the bench vice diy 90° brake that blew my mind! Will be stealing that idea from you😉. Like your inventive ideas and fabrication.
I just a thought . . . I wonder if a pulse wave modulating voltage controller could be used to vary the water pump speed, and thus vary the temperature to the desired water suppling a shower. Probably it'd be much simpler to adapt a normal shower valve and manually add or reduce a cold feed as needed.
A consideration of the flame directly on the copper. A wood fueled flame is roughly 1880 F copper. That quite close to the melting point of copper at 1984 F. That shouldn’t be an issue if you have water circulating in the copper coil. With that said, I would make sure to never operate the stove without water passing through the copper coil as damage and even melting could be possible to the coil. Ideally a metal jacket separating the flame from the coil would be ideal to not only protect the coil but it would also be less likely to produce water to steam conversion. It would keep the water temp from getting extremely hot which will ruin your pump over time. The temperature around a jacketed coil could be regulated some with air flow/vent.
Copper pipe should not be exposed to flame. Stack should be made with round tube. Smaller tube wrap with copper then larger on outside. Lasts way longer
Quick disconnects for air will work but the O-rings are Buna N and won't take the heat very long. Rather that trying to find Viton O-rings for the air disconnects buy some for hot water pressure washer quick disconnects they come with the Viton O-rings and are a little smaller.
I'm not exactly sure but also not sure if I need to. If there was a ton of build up I would definitely try to knock it off with a wire brush. Right now it's just a thin coating. Someone did mention that the creosote could protect the copper to some extent 🤷♂️🤷♂️. I wonder if I could just soak it in something to clean it ever so often.
Get a compression copper fitting to connect to your 5/8 male fitting. Locke supply would definitely have it or Home Depot or Lowe’s, but Locke Plumbing definitely would definitely have it. It’s a copper ferrule, so it would handle the heat.
@@PatrickRemington you may even be able to get a braided line that has the compression end fabricated into it. Lowe’s or Home Depot would carry something like that but I don’t know if you could find one very long. Because they are usually used to connect facets under a sink or to a toilet tank.
Another improvement would be dead simple: just put a thin piece of steel down into the middle of the heat coil. They do that with residential water heaters. The flue gasses heat up the steel, and it radiates energy to the coils. Maybe you could get two pieces and slit them halfway down the length and then fit them together at 90 deg in a cross pattern and then put that in the middle. Looks like fun!
Great build Patrick! How long did it take? I don't have a rocket stove so I am hoping you can answer a question for me. To my understanding a rocket stove got its name because of the sound it makes drawing in fresh air. Because of that fact I was curious if you put a tube in the combustion area or slightly above would it create a negative pressure in the tube? Thank you in advance for answering my question and continue the great work you're doing.
Yeah I get sand from river dry it out in fry pan & store it in plastic protein powder container to stop moisture absorption filter the sand with a window fly screen as sand from the river contains bark partials & larger rocks
Maybe look in to the quick connect fittings that are used on pressure washer wands. Can usually find them where pressure washer are sold and accessories
You could silver braze those stub outs to the steel to keep the steel from cutting into that copper. It’s going to get hot and soft especially if it’s in there with no water running through it. Those soft solder joints might melt out.
If you were to use air hose chucks as quick connects. By the looks of the flow of the pump if you were to restrict the outlet it should slow down the water for quicker heating times.
Hot water rises, so cold should go in through the lower inlet and out the top. Once working and you have water circulating you should be able to turn off the pump and water should continue to circulate.
general awareness information - to give these systems a long service life one might want to consider electrically isolating the copper pipe from the other steel components and also add a sacrificial anode to mitigate galvanic corrosion, because the heat generated in the fire box area will accelerate the galvanic effect.
cold in at the bottom warm out at top, warm water is less dense than cold and will pump itself through the system if done correctly.. had a bigger version with reburner heating water to keep my greenhouse warm.
Nice design.... two question... 1. What is max temp of that rocket stove at the coil? Is that soft copper or annealed in the HW coil? Wondering how close those temps are... a stainless steel coil might hold up better at those temps...
The cold water as to be in bottom and hot water in top. Hot water always go up. If connect the other way it will build pressure and it will not allow to reffil the pipe. And can make boom.
The burn chamber needs the pipes to have a small flange around the inside, on the TOP section, so the soot stays INSIDE, and can't leak out when it runs down the walls. The 'female' needs to be on the bottom, and the 'male' on the top, of every dividing seam, like the stovepipes are installed. So the top pipe slides INSIDE the bottom pipe. Stovepipes are installed this way, too, so the creosote doesn't run out of the pipe and out on the floor. We learned this the hard way, and our stove pad is STILL stained, because the stuff won't come off. I wonder if a person could make a stone or brick filled metal box, with water in it, and have it enclosed, and heat it outside with the stove, same as the water, and then it could serve as a tent heater for sleeping? The lid should be removable to replace brick or stones, so it can be lightweight for travelling. And maybe a clamp on stove pipe that could be bent to exit out a window? Is there such a thing as a bendable, like 'vent' pipe that could bear the heat? I know dryer vent pipe bends this way, but may not be thick enough and could melt? Like a stainless, collapsible pipe with a screen over the top end to catch the sparks. (Yes, having my coffee now. Lol.) Could make a four legged, free-standing pole, like one of those made to hold a Bible or book, with a half circle metal piece on top to hold that collapsible stove pipe? Maybe with a couple screw clamps on the sides to hold the pipe in place. This way, it could be used almost anywhere in a bind. And does anyone sell anything like this anywhere and if not, how much would it cost to have you make one for me?
As TimHickman says, the water should pump itself from the fire heating the water. There are videos of heating water with wood, that show this amazing event. Yours may even work that way without any pump, have you tried it?
Try annealing the work hardening out of the copper tube, fill it with soapy water and then freeze it solid. Bends much better and is easier to clean out. Also, why does everyone use square tube to make rocket stoves? Wouldn't using round tube make the fire swirl around better?
I think it's mostly because it's easier to handle while building. It's easier to cut and clamp. It sits upright without legs. And it just works. Round probably doesn't work that much better to justify the hassle.
If the need arised and you were truly in a no power situation, I think the water will circulate naturally via percolation without the pump. The inlet and outlet will be reversed though. Cold intake on the bottom, and boiling hot out the top. The water source should be high enough so that the heat exchange is mostly full of water at all times.
You could hook that little thing up to a large insulated tank and heat water for an entire home so long as you had fuel to burn. Burn it for a few hours every morning and have hot water for the rest of the day. I wonder if it'd be cheaper than electricity or gas?
I flare one end of copper tube & make up flare to garden hose adaptor turn hose on full blast might have to wait a minute or two for the water to work its way through the sand when it soggy enough it will blast out the end (don’t stand if front of end of coil till it blasts out
Nice build, but personally i would rather have a coil of copper on the outside so it's easier to remove and replace, as well as useful without water heating. I like the ability to cook food as well as heating water.
Nice, another adchannel
?? What are you talking about this video is not advertising anything.
@@PatrickRemington bitter people are everywhere. ignore them
your video was great
maybe add some more specs details
@@PatrickRemington I think he is talking about the constant pop up adds. But thats youtube.. Thanks for the great video!! How is the rocket exchanger going? :)
Show!
Belo trabalho!👏👏👏
A great tip for keeping the copper pipe from kinking is to use regular fine table salt. It can be hard to remove the sand as it compacts. With salt you can flush it out, since it’s water soluble, just connect your garden hose, and turn it up, just a little bit, and kick back and enjoy a beer, while the water works for you 👍🏽
That’s brilliant 👍
In plumbing work, especially in normally cold environments, I would anneal the copper pipe shortly before bending (using a pipe bender, or by hand (in case of soft rolled copper). Annealing : Either lay it in the sun (Europe and Northern climates are usually quite cold inside a room / workshop). I'm south of the eqautor, so 20 - 30 minutes in the sun, will almost require gloves to handle copper pipe.. Using a blow torch to just raise the temperature by 20 deg C, about one meter at a time, then bend / coil, will help. The salt inside the pipe, for concentric coils, is also a great tip, that I have not tried yet, but have been advised to try.
Fill with water and freeze then wrap it up
@@charlesrock7770, I would never bend a frozen pipe. Whether it will run under pressure or even under atmospheric pressure. Bending cold pipes may cause cracking, on inside and outside of the bend, both sides of the pipe wall.
Sand or salt, and annealing to slightly above room temp / ambient (max about 35 - 45°C), will ease the bending effort, and make the metal not susceptible to cracking or folds, or losing shape.
Just use a pvc pipe or anything round thats will be good enough no kinds im a Plumber i work with coils or a tubing bender
As the water heats up it will naturally move up in the coil. It might be enough to circulate the water without the need for the pump.
Yeah, I definitely want to test this and see how well it works.
@@lewishamilton9577
You need a big heat differential for that. Which you will eventually get, of course. But boiling water in the tube is 30% less efficient than pumping it:
(550-212) ÷ (550-70) = 70%. So 30% longer to heat and more woid. But for use of grid it's a good choice. But it isn't convection. It's a primitive steam engine, like a drip coffee maker.
pumping is better and eats just 30w watts to circulate enough to warm all rooms, but with check valves it's easy to create emergency bypass for securing the flow without electricity. Mine works not enough to feed system, but enough to not explode and to temper the tank through the night. So starting the heating at morning is faster as the water is warm already
Only if you want a steam generator. If you need a water heater, you have to use the pump.
@@FadeToEvil I dont know about something this small but I've seen more than a few redneck hot tubs that work just fine using convection only, no pump.
Typically you enter cold water at the bottom to not fight natural convection. Cool build. I am starting a build video for a large stainless rocket stove with integrated water jacket.
Also I suggest pushing MIG. You will have better results. Cheers
You would if you were doing a passive setup. Just did a video on this. The pump is moving water so fast that it doesn't matter but my thinking was that it should enter at the top (coldest) and travel down the 10ft of coil to the bottom (hottest) and then exit back to the Jerry can. It honestly probably doesn't matter that much at all tho
Bonus of using a bump and going coldest to hottest at the bottom is the hottest water is closest to the fire. Fish gills and many heat exchangers, both operate this way.
Aye, that way if the water in the coil starts to boil, it increases convection so it doesn't run away too quickly. It essentially self-regulates up to a point.
Forcing water through it with a pump ends up being less about transferring useful heat into water and more about cooling the flue gas down, because the water just doesn't have a lot of time to absorb heat energy any more. You could do it with a variable-speed temp-sensing pump setup, but that's little better than natural convection.
It's like putting a crazy water pump on your car, it can actually make the engine overheat, because the coolant in the engine is going through it too fast for it to absorb anything.
You use opposite medium flow directions to maximise heat transfer, but I would assume (without doing the math) that in this case, it does not really matter since it's not built for max efficiency anyway. Therefore, cold water going in on top is not a design flaw. Also, natural convection should be negligible. Tube is long and thin, height difference is small, which results in low convective forces and high friction.
@PatrickRemington I, too thought you were backwards. Though using it for showering it makes sense.
Pump moves the water fast enough to not get to hot.. giving a perfect shower water temperature.
The reverse would be better if you were Storing hot water. You would want it to be screaming hot.
Love the removable heat exchange, that solves a lot of problems.
Always heat the copper pipe first with an open flame to soften it . Makes it easier the form around the pipe.
Awesome project! Only on suggestion....Connect the the botom conector instead of the top one as inlet of cold water. Will be less likely to have any air trapped and the cooper will be safely coolled by liquid.
Yeah, I normally would have the pump running before lighting the stove that way the copper never gets hot before the water hits it. I was thinking the water should go from The top (coolest) down to the hottest then exit.
@@PatrickRemington Doing as Nicolas said could offer to use the heat motion to circulate the water instead of the pump may be ? Of course unless the tank is higher than the rocket you'd still need to use the pump at first. What do you think ?
Also, tell me if I'm wrong, but for me a rocket is the fact that wood burn 2 times (wood and gaz included) at almost 100%, I don't think that's the case here which make your stove a stove and not a rocket stove, am I wrong ?
Thanks a lot, you're the king
@@PatrickRemington Thanks for the reply. Well as heat exchangers go. The best efficiencie is with cross circulation... The coldest agaist the hottest. The biggest the temp diff, the better for exchange.
No need for a pump if you run the inlet low and the outlet high. Thermosiphon will move the water with no mechanical means being used! Clever idea just the same 😊
I was thinking the same thing. And Sleve the copper away from direct flame 🔥 contact.
I've seen a few of these and this is by far the best one! I love the legs for stability.
I would only experiment with a few small things to try to get more heat into the copper pipes.
1. Make the smoke stack taller by 6"-12"
2. Add external and internal copper pipe. To allow the copper pipe to be coiled around the outside before it goes up in the inside coil before it leaves the stove.
3. Add insulation around the external copper pipe and stove to keep the heat energy focused back on the copper pipe.
4. See if you could make it operate without having to use a pump, but that might change the 2x copper pipe idea as you don't want to get vapor lock and have it burst.
That's fantastic! Now all ya need to do is scale it up with a bigger stove, tubing and cheap or free water heater with a blown regulator or something to make enough water for a nice, long shower! Or maybe for a hillbilly hot tub!
This is an absolutely awesome idea! An hour is a long time to have to run your pump. You know, if you put a fitting down about 6 inches from the bottom of your Jerry Can and reverse your flow of water, you don't need to use the pump. Cold water from the bottom of the van goes into the lower fitting of the exchanger. As the water heats it rises and goes out the top of the exchanger to the top of the can. The water will flow naturally. The biggest problem with heating water this way is you have to have a way to introduce cold water into the hot, in the shower line to prevent getting scalded. Also need to make sure you have a steam pop off valve on the can.
As for your quick connects use an E3F3-B and a E3F3-B pressure washer coupler and nipple set.
Thanks for the ideas! The pump only ran for about 30min total but only needed about 20min didn't even use half the battery. I am going to see how well passive heat exchange would work. I think it will be slower.
@@PatrickRemington it will start slower, but I. The long run it will actually heat quicker because the water will not have to cycle repeatedly through the exchanger. With passive, you will need to prime your lines, but that should be easy enough by making sure your water level is higher in the jug than the top of the coil pack.
I would say just get a smaller pump that pumps fewer GPM, and uses less battery. What size battery was used?
@@scottc8152 Thermal dynamics precludes the need for a pump.
Exactly right, we did that back in the '60's in Explorer Scouts with a SS milk can with a detachable 1/2" pipe which was routed into the campfire.
If you put a one-way valve on the lower pipe of the heat exchange and prime the unit you won't need the 12v pump till it's time to shower as the water heats it will drawer through and flow out the top back into the tank drrawering more cool water into the system.
I'm not sure i would change anything. that's another awesome idea i will have to try in the future!
I would use air hose quick connections. We use air hose at work with water and works great.
I thought about using those i figure if it works for air it would work for water
Awesome! I had a very similar idea for a harvested heat water heater living off grid about a decade ago, SO damn satisfying to see the same general idea actually built.
Love the rocket stove with the adaptation of the water / heat exchanger. Awesome build. Will cone in handy in many ways.
Thank you! I appreciate that!
Wow this blew my mind what a wonderful build. On your detachable parts at the bottom you could leave a inch and a half legth from the bottom of the coil and and your stove on the outer serface weld a inch and a half cage around it and plug the detachables in like vacuum cleaner detachable heads
Thank you! Yes, I like where your heads at!
My only suggestion comes at the end with the cross brace for cooking pans. Since your longest can is 10" you should use the same simple cross technique on top but having the longer bars reaching further out will allow for a more stable cook top for your pans.
Very cool portable unit!
I’ve been waiting for this video since I saw the short. I really enjoy my electronic pump shower can. I commented there how I used the concept but modified to my needs.
I thought I might build something similar like a box with the copper coil and handle that I can drop into a fire pit or place on the large camp stove. A little more portable since space is a premium! Heat exchanger box. I will probably add an insulated bag over my can to speed up the heating increase the retention of heat developed. Thanks for all the time you put in to share your ideas and finished product.
With a little bit of tinkering for personal customization, you got the perfect off grid prepper device. Great video.
I agree! Just made a video on how to make it wo without a pump
This is the first time I’ve ever seen hot water defing gravity
Hot water only rises
kind regards Sean
I'm using a 12v 2.5 gpm pump to cycle the water. This isn't passive heat exchange
@@PatrickRemington why pump against the natural convection flow?
With enough force applied, even chicken can enter the beehive ..
(Sorry, does not translate well :)
This is fantastic and I am interested in building same..
One issue that will develop over time (I believe) is the buildup of creosote on the copper coil. I think the coil should bot be in direct contact with flame.
What I was planning on doing was to put the copper on the outside and cover over with cement/vermiculate to insulate and help heat the copper.
Worth looking into.
I'm 65 and my dad told me about using sand to bend copper when I was a young boy in the 1960s
Yeah! I had my doubts as first because I couldn’t find a good video of anyone doing it but it works incredibly well.
you can use water too and freeze it.
This showers feels awfully warm, its taking off my skin !
There are devices that limit the max temp of the water coming out
I love seeing how DIY projects can solve problems when the SHTF happens. 🤔me thinks you deserve A++.
Fantastic job Patrick... Thanks for taking us along !
Liked/Subscribed a long time ago !
*FJB too !*
if the cold inlet was bottom & hot at the top would it self circulate the heated water ?
Ditch the pump, convection is your friend 👍
Excellent work dude! I use a circular saw with the Diablo blade you mentioned when working with big sheets of 6061 aluminum works great 👨🏭
yep good idea, next level is radiator for tent and heated water madress
nice, i like how you separated the copper pipe so you can revome it, versatile :)
Hot water naturally wants to rise so connect cold to the bottom tube. Otherwise tidy solution 👍
The basic concept sounds like something I would otherwise like try a build of in a few years, after an operation-use review. ...I will hold off on watching. It's awesome to know that true efficiency (societally) is starting occur.
two suggestions :
Use pressurized tank like they use on backpack sprayers to have a shower .. or secondary pumped air tank. That way you don't need electricity. And water inlets to your can/tank at bottom and top for natural circulation.
EDT.
And should next prohibition era hit .. you only need second module for cooling ;)
For quality product there is lot off applied physic and chemistry to observe and follow but still, still is a still . .
(even for water purification)
I definitely like this better than the round style you built afterwards. I have it on my future or potential projects list now...thanks for the work man!!! 😀
La mejor estufa rocket, el sistema intercambiable para calentar agua esta genial. Saludos desde México👍👋🏾👋🏾
Use convection to your advantage and put the supply in the bottom and the heat out the top.And a help circulation
Well looking at this stove reminds me of a little camping rocket stove that you could charge your phone with! I would think it would take this stove to the next level! Cooking,water heater and phone charger what’s not to like!
Haha love it
aussietim7974
There’s a few very good reasons to have a phone with when you’re remote! Injuries serious injuries it would be nice to just make a call rather then crawl 10 miles or carry the same! If spot a lightning strike or other reason for a fire 🔥 calling it in early might save lives and livelihood! Late spring or early fall show storm it there hunting you with snow machines you could hear them and guide them to you with guess what! Right your dam phone! One thing l do know about Australia is if all the women left Australia the men wouldn’t know it for 24 hours! 🍻
@@aussietim7974as a boy-scout, (leader/adult now) sometimes we bring the youngest out.. I bet the parents don't mind the leaders using their phones in case of emergency
:)
You have your lines reversed. Great build.
I didn't watch the video but he has it backwards on the thumbnail. hot water out needs to be higher than cold water in.
@@akghoundyour right he still has it that way. He defends it too lol
Could use hydraulic hose fittings as quick couplers or 3/8 air hose couplers
You look and sound like a rocket stove expert to me. Cool stuff.
Haha I’m not at all.. but thanks haha
For your water connection....Union fittings could work. Or you could use garden hose threaded connectors and that kind of quick connectors
Yeah that could work! Thanks for the suggestion!
The latch you installed around 20:30 could've been installed differently so it does create a pinching fit. You need to attach the latch and hook slightly further apart so they pull more on eachother when pressing the latch down. With time and use it'll relax the metal and the fit won't be as tight, but bending the metal back is easy with some apprentice hammering skills.
Perfect 👍, it's automatically siphon by heat
This is a great piece, but I'm curious why you choose to bring the cold water in at the top of the coil rather than the bottom. It could even eliminate the need for a pump, eliminating a possible failure mode.
Well the portable shower already has a 12v pump so that’s why I’m using a pump and I was thinking the water should go from the coldest part of the coil down to the hottest part then exit. It probably doesn’t make much of a difference since the pump is moving the water so quickly. If you want to do passive heat exchange the plumbing would have to be completely different.
I recently purchased a small used wood kiln. Thinking about something like this to help offset the heat in the kiln. Especially while setting the pitch. Plus burn my waste. Need to find a used pellet mill. Like the idea for heating a shed or shower water.
Great video, thanks! Any concern the solder will melt due to the rocket stove heat?
The copper 'work hardens' when you straighten it out before recoiling it, an unnecessary step. Try to fill it while in original big, loose coil (that is barely extended like a spring) then work from center out tightening the coil around a burnished round stake (clean pipe). Then solder 90 degree corners on or other ends as desired. You did a great job. My suggestions are slight improvements in the work flow.
Pretty cool I wonder what it would be like with a triple layer coil in it was like 3/8 tubing mandrel bent (fill the tubing with water and freeze it or fill it full of sand and heat bend it) in order to get it a tighter radius
Cool build I like your content. Would vacuuming the sand out be as fast VS blowing it out.
Thermosiphoning has been mentioned a bunch already.
My concern is melting through the copper with high heat over time.
My first thought is to consider putting the coil outside the riser pipe.
Then I thought about maybe doing an inner sleeve filled with a perlite cement mix to protect the pipe and also hold the heat over time so you don’t boil your water but can continue to have reasonable heating of the water over time without having to keep the fire burning.
To help ease the difficulty of coiling the copper tubing. You can anneal it with a propane torch. Copper tube is work hardened from the manufacturing process. So you can soften it by the annealing process, making it way easier to coil tightly.
Purchase the softer copper coil in maybe ⅜" or ½" used in refrigeration. Very easy to bend around a pipe.
So, I have been thinking about this idea for a few years. My family and I will be moving to Alaska in a couple years. We are planting a church in remote Alaska and will be building our own homestead. So, I thought of this idea to help with heating the home (ie heated floors), main water heater, and to help heat a 3 season/year round green house. I figure with enough plastic 55 gallon drums of water around the parameter of the green house, among other natural insulation. Circulating hot water constantly throughout that system could help to keep the green warm enough to keep plants alive. I don't know if it will work in practice, but that is my theory.
I build the same thing 6 years ago but with a ammo can . I have 5 daughters and my wife’s number one complaint while camping was the shower. The one we had was that useless bag thing. Though, putting it next to the fire with sand covering it with hot rocks is a great way to warm those up when theres not enough sun to do the job .
So I took a 40mm can I had and have removable plates with coiled copper just like you have here . Normally just used steam and gravity for water pressure. Though I really like your 12v pump . Gonna borrow that idea for ours .
Congrats very cool ! just a word of caution : Never pump water into an already hot coil , fill with water first.
Also, I hope nobody is tempted to add valves as bells and whistles to tis great and simple design.
Excellent project. Thank you for sharing.
The stove is already awesome, but then you had the bench vice diy 90° brake that blew my mind! Will be stealing that idea from you😉. Like your inventive ideas and fabrication.
I just a thought . . . I wonder if a pulse wave modulating voltage controller could be used to vary the water pump speed, and thus vary the temperature to the desired water suppling a shower. Probably it'd be much simpler to adapt a normal shower valve and manually add or reduce a cold feed as needed.
Awesome Patric , please tell us about the water pump you used .
A consideration of the flame directly on the copper.
A wood fueled flame is roughly 1880 F copper. That quite close to the melting point of copper at 1984 F.
That shouldn’t be an issue if you have water circulating in the copper coil. With that said, I would make sure to never operate the stove without water passing through the copper coil as damage and even melting could be possible to the coil.
Ideally a metal jacket separating the flame from the coil would be ideal to not only protect the coil but it would also be less likely to produce water to steam conversion. It would keep the water temp from getting extremely hot which will ruin your pump over time.
The temperature around a jacketed coil could be regulated some with air flow/vent.
That is some nice engineering.
Good job! You might want to change the grate after many hous of use!? So make it removable like the ash drawer?
Copper pipe should not be exposed to flame. Stack should be made with round tube. Smaller tube wrap with copper then larger on outside. Lasts way longer
Well done mate, a gem as usual.
Thanks man! How have y’all been?
Quick disconnects for air will work but the O-rings are Buna N and won't take the heat very long. Rather that trying to find Viton O-rings for the air disconnects buy some for hot water pressure washer quick disconnects they come with the Viton O-rings and are a little smaller.
Excelente vìdeo mis saludos cordiales de Argentina!!
thank you for showing this. quick question: how will you clean up the sud build up on the heat exchanger?
I'm not exactly sure but also not sure if I need to. If there was a ton of build up I would definitely try to knock it off with a wire brush. Right now it's just a thin coating. Someone did mention that the creosote could protect the copper to some extent 🤷♂️🤷♂️. I wonder if I could just soak it in something to clean it ever so often.
@@PatrickRemington thank you very much for your reply. its greatly appreciated.
Get a compression copper fitting to connect to your 5/8 male fitting. Locke supply would definitely have it or Home Depot or Lowe’s, but Locke Plumbing definitely would definitely have it. It’s a copper ferrule, so it would handle the heat.
does a compression fitting need a special tool to do you just tighten a nut?
@@PatrickRemington yeah, definitely nothing but a couple wrenches.
@@PatrickRemington you may even be able to get a braided line that has the compression end fabricated into it.
Lowe’s or Home Depot would carry something like that but I don’t know if you could find one very long. Because they are usually used to connect facets under a sink or to a toilet tank.
Another improvement would be dead simple: just put a thin piece of steel down into the middle of the heat coil. They do that with residential water heaters. The flue gasses heat up the steel, and it radiates energy to the coils. Maybe you could get two pieces and slit them halfway down the length and then fit them together at 90 deg in a cross pattern and then put that in the middle.
Looks like fun!
Great build Patrick! How long did it take? I don't have a rocket stove so I am hoping you can answer a question for me. To my understanding a rocket stove got its name because of the sound it makes drawing in fresh air. Because of that fact I was curious if you put a tube in the combustion area or slightly above would it create a negative pressure in the tube? Thank you in advance for answering my question and continue the great work you're doing.
Sweet Design!!
Yeah I get sand from river dry it out in fry pan & store it in plastic protein powder container to stop moisture absorption filter the sand with a window fly screen as sand from the river contains bark partials & larger rocks
Maybe look in to the quick connect fittings that are used on pressure washer wands. Can usually find them where pressure washer are sold and accessories
That’s a great idea! I’ll look into it!
Stainless camlock’s would be better. Beer home brewers use them for quick connect and food safe. Most “brass” these days are brass plated zinc.
Nice work brother! Love it🎉
making myself one mate, well done
You could silver braze those stub outs to the steel to keep the steel from cutting into that copper. It’s going to get hot and soft especially if it’s in there with no water running through it. Those soft solder joints might melt out.
that's why it's removable. If you aren't needing the heat exchanger you could swap it out.
so sick.. lets keep digging ,, we can make the surface a forest as it should be . :)
If you were to use air hose chucks as quick connects. By the looks of the flow of the pump if you were to restrict the outlet it should slow down the water for quicker heating times.
Hot water rises, so cold should go in through the lower inlet and out the top. Once working and you have water circulating you should be able to turn off the pump and water should continue to circulate.
Cool design.
If you want to keep water hot, consider using a cooler. You can make enormous sous vide steaks that way.
general awareness information - to give these systems a long service life one might want to consider electrically isolating the copper pipe from the other steel components and also add a sacrificial anode to mitigate galvanic corrosion, because the heat generated in the fire box area will accelerate the galvanic effect.
Genialne super robota !!!
Nice build!
Instead of cutting out a piece and then welding in a mesh grid, could you just drill a bunch of holes to create the same effect?
Yes you could! That's a really good idea actually.
Would opposing metals be an issue here? Idk myself if to prevent copper from corroding it would need to be insulated from metal chimney?
nice build Patrick.
Thanks man!
Once you work the bugs out, ceramic coat (like they use on turbos) on the heat ex.
cold in at the bottom warm out at top, warm water is less dense than cold and will pump itself through the system if done correctly.. had a bigger version with reburner heating water to keep my greenhouse warm.
Just published a video on this today. With a thermosyphon setup you are right But with a pump it makes no difference which way you plumb it.
Love it, can't wait for more. 👍
Thank you!
Nice design.... two question...
1. What is max temp of that rocket stove at the coil?
Is that soft copper or annealed in the HW coil?
Wondering how close those temps are... a stainless steel coil might hold up better at those temps...
The cold water as to be in bottom and hot water in top. Hot water always go up. If connect the other way it will build pressure and it will not allow to reffil the pipe. And can make boom.
Hi, we get the weight of it ? Including with and without the water heating extension ? Thanks a lot
The burn chamber needs the pipes to have a small flange around the inside, on the TOP section, so the soot stays INSIDE, and can't leak out when it runs down the walls. The 'female' needs to be on the bottom, and the 'male' on the top, of every dividing seam, like the stovepipes are installed. So the top pipe slides INSIDE the bottom pipe. Stovepipes are installed this way, too, so the creosote doesn't run out of the pipe and out on the floor. We learned this the hard way, and our stove pad is STILL stained, because the stuff won't come off.
I wonder if a person could make a stone or brick filled metal box, with water in it, and have it enclosed, and heat it outside with the stove, same as the water, and then it could serve as a tent heater for sleeping? The lid should be removable to replace brick or stones, so it can be lightweight for travelling.
And maybe a clamp on stove pipe that could be bent to exit out a window? Is there such a thing as a bendable, like 'vent' pipe that could bear the heat? I know dryer vent pipe bends this way, but may not be thick enough and could melt? Like a stainless, collapsible pipe with a screen over the top end to catch the sparks. (Yes, having my coffee now. Lol.) Could make a four legged, free-standing pole, like one of those made to hold a Bible or book, with a half circle metal piece on top to hold that collapsible stove pipe? Maybe with a couple screw clamps on the sides to hold the pipe in place. This way, it could be used almost anywhere in a bind.
And does anyone sell anything like this anywhere and if not, how much would it cost to have you make one for me?
As TimHickman says, the water should pump itself from the fire heating the water. There are videos of heating water with wood, that show this amazing event. Yours may even work that way without any pump, have you tried it?
awwwsome!! Do you think will also work in a chimney with hot smoke?
Try annealing the work hardening out of the copper tube, fill it with soapy water and then freeze it solid. Bends much better and is easier to clean out. Also, why does everyone use square tube to make rocket stoves? Wouldn't using round tube make the fire swirl around better?
I think it's mostly because it's easier to handle while building. It's easier to cut and clamp. It sits upright without legs. And it just works. Round probably doesn't work that much better to justify the hassle.
If the need arised and you were truly in a no power situation, I think the water will circulate naturally via percolation without the pump. The inlet and outlet will be reversed though. Cold intake on the bottom, and boiling hot out the top. The water source should be high enough so that the heat exchange is mostly full of water at all times.
You could hook that little thing up to a large insulated tank and heat water for an entire home so long as you had fuel to burn. Burn it for a few hours every morning and have hot water for the rest of the day. I wonder if it'd be cheaper than electricity or gas?
22-03-2024 watched
I like how it's turned 👌
I flare one end of copper tube & make up flare to garden hose adaptor turn hose on full blast might have to wait a minute or two for the water to work its way through the sand when it soggy enough it will blast out the end (don’t stand if front of end of coil till it blasts out
Nice build, but personally i would rather have a coil of copper on the outside so it's easier to remove and replace, as well as useful without water heating. I like the ability to cook food as well as heating water.