EXPLOSIVE INTERVIEW: PSA President Ryan Hoge on Card Cleaning, New Slabs, AI Grading & More!
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- Опубліковано 27 сер 2024
- Geoff talks with PSA President about Card Cleaning, New Slabs, AI Grading & More!
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Card cleaning response starts @38:43
Such a BS response but I get it I guess. Would love to see how their "Insurance" really works and if it does.
Thank you
Can't believe Geoff saved the PSA president on the insurance excuse regarding up charge. Wouldn't it be PSA grading fault if they graded wrong, why does customer have to pay for their error?
I was thinking the same exact thing!
Same
Because they want you to pay for their mistakes and they admit they make mistakes. 😂 if you don’t like it, use another company is their stance.
CGC and other grading companies are looking pretty good right about now 😎
Same reason you have to pay the US postal service for insurance if they lose or damage your stuff.
The up charge answer was a dodge. If there was stiffer competition, up charges would disappear. It’s a pure cash grab.
Geoff likes the favors
100% right
@@chrispyd603that’s very likely
100% correct.
And they acquired sgc...
Upcharge is not insurance. Everyone wants a cut when a high dollar card is graded. Bad on Geoff for not challenging this excuse.
PSA is their biggest sponsor. OF course he wasn't gonna push it.
This is what I want. A collection management tool where I can enter my noteworthy cards (both slabbed and raw).
1. The tool would connect to eBay for easy, one-click listings.
2. The tool would seamlessly link to PSA so if I decide to grade a card in the collection because I see a benefit, boom, just click a button and send it to PSA for grading (and vaulting if I want).
3. Ability to easily view my images.
4. Ability to add and remove cards from my collection as I buy and sell.
5. A public link to send to people that want to see my what's in my collection, so they can request I list the card on eBay as a buy it now for them to purchase.
6. That loops back to the #1 request.
On the surface having a card graded sounds like a good thing. From 14+ years of bulk orders with PSA the grading standards and consistency are nonexistent. I’ve had a psa 6 turn into a psa 10. 8’s into 10’s. 9’s into 10s. 9’s into 7’s. It’s essentially roulette at this point and the casino (PSA) always wins
A PSA 10 on a card should be the same value as a SGC 10…
Grader notes is what people want!
I have to applaud them on the grader notes…it adds some accountability and atleast an explanation to the collector.
Yes sir. I just recently spoke up about that under one of their posts on Instagram. It’s a no brainer to add notes.
What he said about their reasoning with card cleaning makes sense from their side. Good stuff all around. Thanks guys
Upcharges are r**tarted, not only are they a conflict of interest but they hurt collectors exponetially where as resellers can eat that cost
It's their "business model" ...it's their greed
I've seen one of Ryan's interviews and normally leave with more questions. This interview offers so much clarity.. Great questions! So much knowledge gained.
When I watch some of the longtime vloggers, who clearly know their business, and are evaluating their submissions to be a 9 or 10, and the card may come back as a 6, then you know there’s a problem with PSA grading. Slow the heck down, train your graders properly, and stop the 10 pop control.
The upcharge in relation to the insurance makes no sense. You dont get extra insurance all the sudden. They insure their cards. How does them looking at my pockets and demanding more money from me based on the size of my pocket have to do with them issuring cards? They should have their products inssured jsut cause its the nature of that business. Do we get to look at their pockets and demand more money? Odd that the people lower in society, those at the top want to put as many buffers in the way of people moving up the ladder. Stop!
What you are suggesting is a more socialized system where the small player and large player equally shoulder both the value and burden. That's how most things in the U.S run, although the value is not shared the burden is. I would prefer those receiving more value from the system equally absorbing the burden. Americans aren't accustomed to that type of equality so it doesn't always sit well.
If the holder of a high value card sues PSA , which is what is happening, they will sue for more money than a low value card holder will so the payouts are much higher on those cards, therefore the cost of servicing those cards is higher. That's totally reasonable.
@@ponzo1967 Actually he seems to be suggesting that the cost of a service should be the same regardless of what that service is performed on. When you go to a dry cleaner, do they charge a different price for each item depending on what it cost you? When you get a car wash does the price vary by make/model? No, because the service provided is the same regardless of what they service. In both of those instances the risk of damaging the item exists, yet no uncharge for more expensive items.
It’s just a blatant charge. “Grading” is kind of a cash grab, to a certain extent. But we all know this, right?
@@FatButcher I would understand that if the liability was the same but it's not. With that being said I don't have the numbers so it could very well be an opportunistic cash grab, you could be right! They will never do a public audit for their customers so we may never know if it's in good faith or not. It is true that if I send in a $100,000 card and they grade it too low dropping the value by $70,000 I can sue them for that loss and then some. In this case they hold all the cards so to speak( bad joke) 🙄. Any business without real competition is prone to deciding their own stock value. So what he said is plausible but that doesn't mean truthful.
Yes you do get extra insurance... the higher value the card, the more liability they have if they make a mistake... a better way to fix this issue would be to offer an insured option... not force everyone to participate.
As someone getting back into the hobby I really think the grade notes should be included with any submission. It would help educate and also provide some clarity. Good interview!
I'm going to be straight to the point. The upcharge is ridiculous and the slabs and the labels are the ugliest of the big 4 . Isn't it just great seeing a really high grade 9 or 10 card with a paper label inside that's all crinkled up that looks like an Avery label. For the cost there is no excuse for the slab or the label.
"Sometimes a new grader will be more conservative" @ 29:00 . This is EXACTLY why I think AI & Computer grading is the future.
Sounds to me like there needs to be an grading industry standard on how to grade a card. I would hate to get a grader on a bad day and get a 9 when it should have been a 10.
Like umpires in baseball, bring in the robots
I appreciate companies like PSA. I think they are great for the hobby. However, regarding card cleaning. There is a difference between cleaning and enhancing. There is also a difference between in the way the card is enhanced. If the card is enhanced using any product that contains fillers, I agree it is considered altered. If it is enhanced via polishing compounds that do not contain fillers and you are actually physically correcting/removing the scratches then I would considered the card to be corrected. Because technically the card is already altered by having a scratch on it which I would assume the card company did not intend for said scratch to be there. So the card or item is technically already “altered” in a sense. But after correcting said card, IMHO it should be allowed and in the end it would not be detectable if done correctly. After using polish, you can apply a solution to strip any and all polish residue from surface. Even an IPA solution will work. Most of these card “cleaning” products from my experience contain a lot of the same ingredients that car waxes contain which they do contain a lot of fillers. I would also respectfully disagree that these products would ruin the card as the product itself contains elements that protect especially against UV. They also contain Carnuaba which is a natural ingredient that has amazing protection properties including hydrophobicity.
Also PSA NEEDS to implement why the card got the score it did on all levels of service. I think transparency is key and it is the utmost important aspect when it comes to grading anything at any level.
I also respectfully disagree with tiered pricing despite it being used to cover “insurance” costs. I think PSA should adopt a standardized pricing for any and all cards regardless of their values. I am sure most people would rather spend an extra dollar on a grade across the board to help cover these claims rather than tiered pricing. But that is just my 2 pennies. I am just a collector/enthusiast.
I definitely respect PSA for coming on these interviews and giving in depth explanations. They really do help.
One of Geoff’s best interviews! So much knowledge gained and reaffirmed. Great content!
He's full of shit on that wemby card. Talked to the dealer and owner? first time they ever took the customers word for anything lol. Card is clearly off center, looks like psa just wanted that card in their slab with a 10 at any excuse.
A+ interview with some very great news on upcoming changes.
PSA = Please Submit Again. I am curious the POP count for slabs that has been resubmit for higher grade. This really screw the pop count. I like TAG grading for that. There is no resubmit because the card being Id in there computer scan of the card.
Awesome interview. I’m excited for the photo matching service.
Since Ryan acknowledges cracking slabs as a norm, it would be great if PSA offered a small incentive for sending PSA labels from cracked slabs to them. It would help PSA adjust population reports to be more accurate.
Actually if a person cracks a slab, that label can be mailed in and they will adjust the pop report and inactivate the cert number. It's done by many bigger submitters who crack already
@@richardbianco9674 yup, I’d bet if PSA gave an incentive (small amount of credit or other reward), they would receive even more labels
Does Panini submit these labels when a card gets turned back in for replacement due to manufacturing defect and they agree to replace the card?
@@RobertWalterweldon I'd assume any card turned in for replacement will be raw. They wouldn't for a card already graded
@richardbianco9674 and why is that? Nobody has ever had a graded card turned in the the manufacturer for replacement after being graded? Is this uncharted territory?
Why not just catch up to the modern age technology we have……start implementing AI grading instead of human grading…. Eliminate the up charges, cut employees and faster turnaround times & better transparency 🙃
I 100% agreed, at least the computers can be more consistent from scanning the imperfections. Unlike using human being subjective.
I don’t know why people bother anymore with the grading consistency questions. Oh, some graders are new, some are tough on one thing over another. He’s right, they haven’t changed the written standards, and likely never will. This game is their bread and butter. Look at vintage PSA 5’s that were graded in the 1990’s or up to like 2005. Many of those cards would get 2’s and 3’s today. The gimmick here is in the subjectivity of human grading, i.e. what is “minor” rounding of corners to you vs. me? Hoge is not dumb, he realizes this. They have a huge grading consistency issue here right now with vintage, many in that community agree. Send in a stack of sharp cornered and decently centered vintage, and some will get 7’s and 8’s, while others will inexplicably get 4’s. The problem is much larger than a few new graders or those who treat corners more harshly than edges or something. If Hoge and Turner are not acknowledging this; they are simply lying - it’s right in front of their faces. Good news on the grader notes, this is something that collectors have been asking about for years.
What makes me laugh about his response is if the grading standards truly haven't changed...and you insure your grades...I should be able to find a card that is a PSA 9 in a lower cert that is trashed compared to my card that got a 7 and say okay pay me the difference. You acknowledge that this card is a 9 and you stand by it, and yet my card, the same card in better condition, is a 7...so pay me the difference. lol. It won't happen...
@@JediMasterT Correct. Grading at this point is a large hobby fait accompli, and most of us put up with this BS on some level to play the game. But to say it's fraught with problems is a huge understatement.
If PSA is going to say that any cards that have Kurts uice on them arent going to be valid then the Wembanyama 1/1 should also be banned. But they won't do it because it's a rare card.
Even more concerning is that grading is effected by population number's... 'hey guys, were getting too many 10s.. better slow it down or you dont get bonus".. that scenario is BS.. a grade is what a grade is, regardless of what the last card they looked at got graded..... to fix that they can have a TRUE GRADE and a RELATIVE GRADE (that might adjust for marketplace numbers).
When is PSA going to start grading some of these Hobby History pieces like older sketch cards?
PSA is the industry’s leader and doesn’t grade the first sketch card to ever exist but Beckett does?
1993 Defective Comics Mark Voger Sketch Card
Those are valuable pieces of art and a piece of hobby history
so no kurt’s love juice is allowed ? i will continue to add kurt’s love juice sorry
I lika' the juice
Ryan did a great job explaining why they don’t allow foreign products on cards.
Agree, all this noise and that is all this is. It has always been on the site, always been a no and no matter how many dopes compare comics, art and restoration to cars, it is a no when it comes to sports cards.
Psa it's a shitty company Jeff you speak very highly of them because they grade your letters 10 only because of your promotions
Really great interview on both ends! Ryan seems like a very authentic guy and really positive representative for PSA. Some exciting news, especially grading notes.
S/O to Geoff for bringing some great questions and just being a great interviewer 👏🏼
The hobby is divided. Half of you are Jeff Wilson fanboys and followers. The other half of you think Jeff Wilson is a clown. It's funny how life goes.
Grading cards the biggest rort of all time
Overall thought it was a good informative interview.
One question I would have liked to see addressed is regarding the PSA label. It seems the font size is the same on all the labels and when you start getting into some of these more modern inserts, they start getting abbreviated and I can’t even figure out what the heck the insert or parallel is without looking it up in a database. It would be nice to adjust the font size so all the card information fits on the label without having to look everything up. Some shows have very poor Internet connections so it’s not always easy to get the information you need for a particular slab
I appreciate the openness of this interview. It doesn’t really change my mind but I better understand where they are coming from.
"After stains are removed, the stains come back" - These are sports cards not magic cards!
So the guy thanks Kurt's card care on his video in the PSA headquarters while he receives his PSA 10, but yet he tell this guy he didn't use any of the products on the card what a load of crap😂
PSA just wanted to make sure that expensive card was in their holder and nobody elses
They are a criminal organization, and their grading scale is preposterous. The range between 1-3 is outrageously enormous, while the grade range between 7-10 is microscopic. Even it out for God's sake!
would love to get an interview like this with the president of Beckett BGS and have him/her answer some tough questions
How does a company stay impartial if they have a partnership with them. I would think they would grade all Topps cards better than a Panini card?
32:48 I love the transparency. If the grader notes are gonna be introduced in June, might as well add subgrades
Insurance explanation is garbage and everyone who has 5 seconds of business experience knows it. Just admit, they act like real estate agents, making feeding of someone else's actual expense outlay (cos of the card), profit margin (sale price of the card) and found a way to steal huge portions of wealth without ever spending their own money, and PSA fan boys LOVE IT. They rofit on every ard graed, without EVER buying a single card. PSA are geniuses like the mob bosses were, everyone subbing with PSA is a mark.
Nothing matters until objective grading ... people who make a couple of bucks over minimum wage are telling you what your cards are worth lmao. Have fun!!
I’ve improved lots of cards over the years. (wiping surfaces, removing wax stains, flattening corners, fixing warping, etc.) If they retroactively deactivated any of my cards (like they did Kurt Colone) I’d file suit asap.
Geoff I appreciate you for your effort on this video man. I’m not a huge watcher of the show but a fan of u and bought the dummies book! Glad to have around and keep up the success 🍺
Geoff - "Why does PSA have an upcharge?"
PSA - "Our business model"
The audience- "oh you mean greed"
Thanks for the outstanding interview. The one question I would have liked to hear him answer is which grading service (PSA or SGC) he would send his cards to and why if he had a mix of modern and vintage that he wanted to grade. I would be particularly interested in his answer if he thought some cards were more appropriate for PSA and others for SGC.
Hope they continued to expand on the east coast - At least the strides are there - Aside from the national any onsite grading for PSA in SFL into year end?
Great interview. Ryan thx for all the info we really appreciate you.
Thanks for the photo clarification
I spoke up about the customer notes under one of their Instagram posts. Glad I did
They purposely under-grade certain cards to keep pop counts low to small customers. While giving 10's on those certain cards to their favorite customers. This increases the profit to their favorite customers. While ripping off the little guy.
Lol your delusional. Psa is a monopoly why would they care or even have favorite customers? Is the pop of a card going from 3 to 4 really gonna effect the price of the card that much if at all?
@@johnnygullett3134 Yo Mrs delusional, Who’s talking about 3-5? I’m talking about them limiting 10s on goats. When there’s money involved, you best believe some shady stuff can and will go on. Stop your drunk typing…
He literally said the graders don’t know whose cards they’re grading lol
They’re absolutely giving tens out to their big boy customers that give them major volume
Premium price for slabs that look like ass.
I guarantee with the technological advances involving grading will probably mean less PSA 10’s
This is a great video. Good questions!
I give credit to this guy for acknowledging his service's strengths and areas where they're still trying to get better. I expected more of an hour-long advertisement to be honest.
Explosive interview? I must have clicked on the wrong link.
Man. What a great interview. While I still believe cards should be able to be cleaned, I respect PSA’s reasoning behind their decision.
That was a very informative interview. Thank you
I would be shocked if PSA could find a way to detect if a card was cleaned (Kurt's Card Care). The polish/spray aren't left on the cards, they're wiped off after use. There's no visual difference or smell (other than it being clean). Kurt also frequently examines cards under a microscope and with a blacklight, so I fail to see how they could possibly know unless they examine it at an atomic level.
Great video 10! 🤟
Kurt's Card Cleaner got a shout out for cleaning the Wemby card that got a PSA 10. I have SOO many questions! Lol
He stated it was the dealer, not the owner, that did the s/o - whether the dealer used it on it…who knows
@jwiedle86 Doesn't matter.... they 'cleaned' the card. Question is what type of cleaner or chemical did they use?? How was PSA not able to detect said chemical substance if it was recently cleaned?? 🤔
@@controversialcardchannel as I said, if you watched the interview…PSA guy said implied it was not cleaned and the dealer was just doing a shoutout. Aka they prob asked guy if it was and he lied and said no haha. I’m sure it was cleaned. But PSA apparently moving forward as though it was not based on their knowledge. Plus, you currently can’t really detect any card spray after using it - but he said they are working on ways to detect it by smell or residue.
Fantastic video. Geoff your interview skills have definitely improved 👏... great guy, he explained alot. Also Fanatics is probably scrambling to aquire BGS buuut their parent company doesn't sell any of their holdings (traditionally).
Great conversation thank you
great video! thanks for doing the interview
Geoff, awesome interview man!
Great Video Geoff,Thank you for doing this for us Lots of New and Great ideas on the Future of PSA,what about Thicker Topps/Panini cards Cleat cards for example.
GOD BLESS YOU BOTH GREAT SHOW!!!
I would love if you could ask about about PSA Set Register's lack of upgraded and slot request open delay
You can give PSA your money or not. It’s really that simple. If you do, you have no place complaining. You know what you’re signing up for.
Great interview!!!
Cleaning a card from human abuse damage or lack of care / protection for better display in Your personal collection is not unethical People polish, wipe and do everything they can to make the card present better for display , Plenty of other things to complain about in the Hobby like the Producers sending all the loaded boxes to big retailers and breakers , manipulating Population counts by under grading deserving cards to maintain low pop counts and all the other shady practices that are far worse than oh heaven forbid cleaning a card .
Upcharges are a joke. A money grab for no added work. PSA has done everything possible to doom their future.
That's why i buy my cards graded already.. i let the others spend all that money while i profit off of it.. spend smart and be smart!!
@@smbmostfamous1432 me as well.
I been seeing and reading about a lot of law suits against PSA…I know PSA has brought SGC grading and that’s who I use I hope PSA doesn’t mess with the way SGC operates…
General Geoff!
The questions were okay. The follow ups were super weak. This was just a fluff piece with softballs. I understand Geoff can’t sit there and grill the guy, but they could’ve at least made this less scripted.
I heard him say comic books, without saying comic books…
If cleaning things was bad, why do people wash their cars? or their clothes? or themselves? This guy makes no sense.
Ryan said they would be on the hook if it changed. Have they stepped up to help the guy who bought the psa auto and then when they regraded they said it was fake?
They gave a 10 to the WEMBY that they knew was "cleaned" with Kurt's card care.....
The President of a company is having to approve refunds for overgrading or other mistakes? Interesting business model.....his time has to be better spent elsewhere unless he doesn't trust/empower his team or his is a micromanager.
You've been there three years and you still have this ugly slab and label and up charges???
Im really excited to hear theyre gonna have inserts to fit die-cuts! I have lots of die cuts ready to grade that i havent graded yet because i dont like the way they look in slabs. They dont move around in the slabs but theyre just tilted usually left a little and it looks terrible.
What happens when you buy a card on Ebay. If that card has been cleaned by the seller and I submit to PSA thinking the condition is good. Then we have PSA not grading this card because the card has been cleaned. No one is compensating me for the money I spent on the card. I dont have the means or methods to figure out if it's altered.
People are idiots, 13-14 million cards were backlogged, keep submitting your 8-9's theyre worthless.
Great interview. As someone who's returning to the hobby after being away for over 30 years, I found the "up-charge" (insurance) explanation both disturbing and weak. Having customers not related to PSA's bad decision on bad grades, covering PSA's insurance costs, is extremely shady. Someone of the host's popularity should have stood up more for people who rely on these services and pushed back on this nonsense.
Gage R&R results are needed for each grading company and should be made public. This could be a competitive advantage if your company is consistent in their evaluations. Additionally, new employees should be tested for consistency before being allowed to grade actual cards. It sounds like all of PSA’s actions to drive consistency are reactive.
We at PSA make mistakes. In order for us to protect ourselves against mistakes, we need an insurance policy. We would like the customer to pay the premium on that policy in the event we screw up. Thank you.
Great guest - upcharging will be a class-action lawsuit down the road. On many levels it is unfair and gouging.
PSA Vault is stuck in the past - must invest in the techonology - it is not up to par
I handed over cards to a group submitter on March 23, dual graded, regular, and bulk. My dual graded order( 5 cards ), and my regular (1 card) shipped this week, and my dual graded cards were done before the 1 sent at the regular level! I was shocked!
I just sent mine in March 24, they are halfway through the grading step now. took a week and a half on the research and ID step, once they received them the process started right away.
Can he make a column for serial number cards
I hear this and it sounds like things I have a problem with PSA about are being addressed and the future PSA will be better. The cert number is going to become very important in the future bigger numbers will be far more accurate. Oldest numbers will be overgraded stuff. Stuff graded recently will be a mixed up bunch that people will be scrutinizing what it actually should have been graded. The main focus of the last few years was “keep up”, not “be accurate”. I think they have heard enough complaints to realize that cannot keep happening.
I absolutely think they rush through the grading process, rather than focus on accuracy, in order to “keep up” with volume. Hire people with knowledge of the industry, and take the time to train them properly.
They’ve had a card of mine for 67 days now. It’s at step 6 for over 40 days. This is ridiculous!!!!! It’s a 2024 Topps Series 1 Austin Wells Black Star Auto. Need it back in a month for a gift. Seems like I’m going to have to purchase something else. Thanks a lot PSA!!!!!
Remove the magazine from membership and lower the membership price. Magazine subscriptions should be sold separately.
I have a patrick Mahomes downtown card and want to get it graded! Was told not to send it to PSA cause they’ll rip me off with upcharges! Not sure where to get it graded now!
He's right about dual service. I have a 6 card order that's still at the grading stage and it was entered into their system in December
Thats why I have never sent a PSA submission. Only SGC. NO card should take more than a 30 day turnaround IMO.
Either way that Wemby was no way a 10...