Heat pump installation in a 1980’s Property: What’s involved
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2023
- In this video I share everything that’s involved in a heat pump installation from initial enquiry all the way through to completion. This is a retrofit installation in a 1980’s house and we will be installing a 5kw Vaillant AroTherm Plus unit.
www.greenhomeheating.co.uk
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this is great - i'm having the same unit also installed on a upstairs wall and have been a bit concerned about noise/vibration. these videos are a great way to allay concerns, it's so difficult to actually find one to look at in person!
Great video Mark, thanks for sharing!
Well done Mark, I run WMECOTRAINING in Birmingham. We are just about to start teaching Heat Pump courses and this video is one we'll definitely be recommending for our candidates. Thank you.
That’s great to hear thank you. Good luck with the courses. Better quality heat pump courses is definitely something we need.
Good thing to note, the boiler upgrade scheme voucher now contributes £7500 as of 23rd October!
Great video, watching from Ireland..it's a difficult topic but theres a notion that I've heard that heat pumps don't work in badly insulated properties.
I believe that is false but don't know why - be great to hear more about that in another video.
Also, when you get a heat pump you also have to upgrade to the unvented cylinder type that you've shown?
About the unvented cylinder, do they improve the water pressure in your home..as in will the water in the shower be of a stronger pressure
Thanks for sharing the video man, very helpful
Still liking the idea of air to air systems. These heat pumps seems a nightmare to plan for, and once installed, your screwed! I have a combi boiler, and the old hot water cylinder i had has now gone, and the small bedroom extended into the cupboard it was in!
Air to air can be really good options for some homes. They don’t solve the hot water problem though. I know what you mean about storage space. Houses have moved away from a “airing cupboard” and we struggle for space at times.
Can you go through the mcs registration part in more detail and the planning part
It's locating the heat pump unit. In a property most people have a seating area just outside the rear property. That's the ideal spot next wall for heat pump.
Would have liked to see what disruption there was in the house and also how know long it took to do.
Great stuff!
How long did the installation part of this system take? (Site work, plumbing and electrical)
Hi Richard. Thanks for the comment. This one was complete in 3 days.
Thanks for this video, I'm strongly considering ASHP and this info is excellent. You mentioned that having a zoned system is a bad idea with an HP - could you expand on this ? I currently have a gas boiler with smart TRV's (Heat Genius) that allows individual rooms to call for heat. Would this be a bad idea with an HP ?
Hello. Thanks for the comment. I’m glad you found it helpful.
The more zoning you have the more chance you have for the heat pump to cycle on and off once demand is satisfied and then back one again once another room requires more heat. With a gas boiler it’s a great idea but with heat pumps that require a lot of energy to get the compressor going it will destroy the efficiency. If you size your radiators appropriately for the room temp you require and leave the full system open loop the heat pump will be able to maximise its cycles and save energy
Great video, thanks for making it. What is the dirver in homeowners wanting heat pumps? Is it all £ with the bus grant of just wanting to be greener?
Glad you enjoyed it. With the bus grant and the fact the install is vat free it can make it cheaper to get a heat pump when installing new systems or doing system conversions. A well designed system should be cheaper on running costs as well but that depends on the cost difference between gas/electric. It is also one of the best ways you can cut your carbon footprint.
Interesting video. Can you explain a bit more about what and why you replace old Lagged 80s Hot Water Cylinder Capacity and how do you decide on the capacity to put in a hot water cylinder
. It is to try to hear the whole water use for 24 hours when there is cheap electric? Also if you say needed to heat a tak of that size during the day with a heat pump how long might it take?
Hello, there are a few methods of sizing hot water cylinders but some go off 45 litres per occupant. This property only had a 150 litre cylinder as its all that would fit but we have controlled it to recharge as soon as the temp drops by 15 degrees. The recharge time is around 15 mins so it works really well.
Brilliant video, been looking for more ashp survey videos. Could you do one on the heatloss aspect and filling out the heat engineer app. Im a heat pump surveyor using heat engineer also.
Thank you, Heat engineer actually have a UA-cam channel where the designers talk you through all the features. They will be able to explain it better than I can
Not convinced by the wall mounting. I have a couple of (initially) very quiet Daikin air to air units mostly used for cooling. They started off unnoticeable. One is now 12 years old or so and emits a notable thrum that comes through the mount and into the wall (there is only so much those rubber cushions will dampen, and they compress over time). If I had the time again I wouldn't be wall mounting these devices. In this case with the additional access issues for servicing / repair, it really makes you wonder if this is the right solution.
How did you manage to get the heat pump up to that location? Is there any advice when putting them over 2m high?
Hi, we used a builders genie for lifting lintels in place for this one.
Can i ask where you get the external trunking from
Hi. We use Secon for most of our heat pump equipment. www.seconrenewables.com
They now have it in anthracite as well.
My only problem is I haven’t got room for a water cylinder, so I’d need either a custom made one put it in a bedroom or something then build a cupboard around it
Shame the first comment was just a troll.
Also a heating engineer and you've outlined what we tell our customers when they are trying to opt for a heat pump. Also your replies are spot on with the advice and knowledge.
We're not MCS yet though and with the issues they're having we most likely won't be continuing to go forward with it unless they actually address many of the issues.
Thanks for the comment. It’s hard to blame people, there’s so much negativity going around about heat pumps. And a lot of them being installed poorly and not performing. Hopefully more comes out to help educate customers rather than scare them into thinking they don’t work.
What issues are you facing with MCS?
How much for a similar system with the £7.5k grant?
Hello. This system would be around £4-5k with the £7.5k grant.
Rather large storage cylinder, most homes will have problems having a suitable location.
😅😅 eine Wärmepumpe kann in die letzte ranzige Bude. Die Effizienz hängt leider immer noch vom Dämmstandard ab. Also saniert erst energerisch!!!!👍🇩🇪
I had my heat pump removed as it was a total nightmare. Super expensive to run, the house was never warm the second the weather dropped and it broke down every winter. I went back to an LPG boiler that was less than half the price of another heat pump and the LPG boiler has been fantastic. I would only put a heat pump in a new build and yes, heat pumps are noisy. FYI my house had good insulation and on paper was fine apparently. The issue in the UK is, one day it can be 10 deg and the next day, -5 and the heat pump just doesn't have the power to replace that much lost heat in such a short time frame.
Sorry to hear you had a bad experience with your heat pump. What make did you have and how was the heat pump controlled? Was it a on off style thermostat or did it have weather compensation? We like to use weather comp with all of our installs so the flow temperature from the heat pump changes depending on the outside temperature to keep it a consistent temperature at all times without the need to compensate for large energy losses. The Vaillant Arotherm plus heat pumps are extremely quiet. You can hardly tell when this one is on.
I'm always curious about these removals. As surely most of the work is in the system upgrades and running the pipes to the heat pump. And would end up costing more to have something else put in than getting the heat pump system fixed. However, I'm always sceptical when comments include Roger Bisby's points, like the wildly varying temperature. Because even though the outside temperature may change rapidly, a house will retain heat for a lot longer, and a properly installed heat pump on weather comp will handle the difference just fine.
In the last couple of years, ASHP have moved on in design, they are very quiet, especially the Vaillant Arotherm plus, the reliability is also very good and with weather compensation and installed as seen here with just one heating zone plus the hot water zone it's a different ball game. If your installer is MCS and has taken the Heat-Geek Assured course you really can't go wrong, the training is second to none through Heat-Geek. Maybe you used someone who made out to be qualified as most ASHP installs are now very good, we know by the numbers installed and the very small number of complaints.
@@BenIsInSwedenI have learned a lot from Roger but I feel he has gone a bit tin foil hat recently.
Do be hinest heat pump is a rip off end of
Hi, the majority of our installs have been getting over 400% efficiency. Certainly not a rip off but we do understand some poor installations can cost people a lot of money.
% of C02 output by country- China 27% USA 14% India 7% Russia 4.60% Japan 3.40%....UK 1.03%. If every house in the UK had a heat pump and every car was an EV it wouldn't make an iota of difference to climate change. The bottom line is that if I installed a heat pump it would cost me around 5x the cost of new gas boiler ( 3k gas, around 15k to insulate the house to Scandinavian standard and install pump. For the majority of people in the UK it's a no brainer, Just can't afford it simple as that.
Hello. This install for a top spec heat pump was around £4k. To change it for a top spec gas boiler with similar controls would have cost around 3k. The system should save around £200 per year on bills compared to the gas boiler. This house previously had a loft insulation upgrade to 300mm and has cavity wall insulation. Even without taking the whole climate change argument into account these systems can still save people money on their bills with the help of the 7.5k bus grant.
Insulating to "Scandinavian standard" would reduce your gas bill as well, and along with new heating installations - either new build or major renovation, need to have a max flow of 55C, so eventually that cost will apply regardless of heat source. As for CO2 figures, you might want to do by capita, because if you haven't noticed, there's many more people in China than there is in the UK. And the UK does import a lot of stuff from China, and if it did all that manufacturing in the UK, the UK's CO2 output would sky rocket.
@@greenhomeheatingltd That's the thing, isn;t it? Even with th emassive grant (which I guarantee, not everyone is going to get), it costs more than double what a gas boiler would. If you're facing an upfront cost of an aditional £2000 a saving of £200 means very little. Ten years before you break even. And that's with the other £7,500 being paid for by other taxpayers.
@@richardgregory3684 the £4000 cost was based on a combi to heat pump conversion and £200 agains a already A rated boiler. If your doing a system conversion or full new system the cost can actually work out cheaper to install a heat pump with the 7.5k grant and 0% vat. As long as you have no recommendation for loft or cavity insulation on your epc you should get the grant.
@@greenhomeheatingltd Which means the ACTUAL cost is around £13000, with taxpayers picking up the bulk of it. There's no way that is going to get extended to the roughly 30,000,000 homes across the UK. The idea that the Uk should spend £30,000,000,000 in order to replace an already working system on th premise that it will reduce by a fraction the roughly 1% of global emissions we produce is, honestly, for the birds. And that of course does not include extra costs like insulation that will apply in many cases. One can reasonably argue that these should be done anyway, but the staggering cost for what is, in global terms, a marginal benefit is frankly for the birds. The average voter will see China and India building three or four coal stations a WEEK and realise whatever Britain does or doesn't do won;t make a fig of difference. Personally I have no intention to have my perfectly good combi boiler ripped out and replaced, I don;lt have the upfront cash to pay for it, we have a combi as there's nowhere for a cylinder, the radiatiors probably aren;t up to it either and the only place the outside unit could go would mean rerouting the pipework because when they put the boiler in, it wasn;t worth the added expens eof installing it in the one room that is adjacent to the garden.
A 1980s property isn't well enough insulated for the low grade heat produced by a heat pump. It's a Government tick-box exercise, don't fall for it.
Thanks for the comment, this home is actually perfect for a heat pump installation. The windows and doors have been upgraded as well as the wall and loft insulation to make the total heat loss less than 5kw. The ground floor is already working off low temperature with the underfloor heating and the larger radiators upstairs are perfectly sized for the lower temperatures. Low temp systems do take longer to heat a property from cold that’s why they should be operated with weather compensation and not a on off control like most gas boilers have. This system will definitely be cheaper to run than a gas boiler.
@@greenhomeheatingltd Brutal, your first comment on an install is one of the people who believe and spread the disinformation regarding HPs. Hopefully, it won't put you off posting more of these. A more basic install is also refreshing to see, sounds like only 2 new rads were needed? I also like the upgrade from Sky dish to Heat Pump - some might say that was required to be able to afford it 😉
Unfortunately there are a lot of bad installs out there that have not been designed and installed correctly giving heat pumps a bad name.
It was just 3 radiators that needed replacing on this job, it it was definitely one of the easier installations. Luckily the sky dish was already disconnected from years ago.
@@greenhomeheatingltdThere's a lot of people who can't afford to do these things, and also don't have room in their homes for all the pipes etc...that seems to take up a lot of room
@@mel4856 you are right. Depending on the home changing from a combi boiler to a heat pump can be difficult due to the space needed. In this house they still had a cylinder cupboard but have lost around 50% of the storage space they had in it for the cylinder. Financially it does cost quite a lot more going combi to heat pump, I think this install was around 6 thousand pounds after the BUS grant where a top of the range combi would be 3k. It does make a lot more financial sense when you are changing from a system boiler or having a full new heating system put in as the cost differential comes right down in those situations.
It's locating the heat pump unit. In a property most people have a seating area just outside the rear property. That's the ideal spot next wall for heat pump.
Great stuff!
How long did the installation part of this system take? (Site work, plumbing and electrical)
It's locating the heat pump unit. In a property most people have a seating area just outside the rear property. That's the ideal spot next wall for heat pump.
Great stuff!
How long did the installation part of this system take? (Site work, plumbing and electrical)
Hi, this install took 3 days to complete.
It's locating the heat pump unit. In a property most people have a seating area just outside the rear property. That's the ideal spot next wall for heat pump.
I installed heat pumps to heat my swimming pool. The COLD air coming from them was enormous but was at the bottom of the garden. If this cold air was close to a seating area everyone would have to sit with overcoats on!!