The FAVORITISM in Overwatch Balance is Getting Out of Hand
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
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Shadin
#Overwatch
"so everyone gets more health because we want to reduce burst damage kills!"
Meanwhile Widowmaker: 💃💃
Well they did reduce the number of burst damage kills.
Reduce, not eliminate.
Whats funny about this is they keep increasing burst now XD
Would love to see Widow reworked into a Yoshi hero. She sneak up and grab you with tongue then poop you out as egg.
Goated comment@@VoxNerdula
If the #1 widow counter is someone who is LITERALLY invisible and has to turn off the widow's abilities to play the game, then Blizzard balance team needs a reality check
Both those heroes don't belong in the game
I think it's easy to pivot Sombra to being a support. Have her hack be used on allies to temporary overclock them and heal them for a short duration. Hacking healthpacks is a good support ability already. EMP is a good support ultimate. The main changes needed are remove permastealth and change virus to a healing ability. Her niche could be a true dive support. Lock down healthpacks for your flankers and play with them.
Sombra is the only non tank hero that can contest Widow and even then, another Widow is better at that 😂😂
@@ZykoYFFuhhh, brig(if she wanted to leave her team that is) and tracer can contest her. Bap and kiri could contest her as well. There are a few heroes who can contest widow just as easy as sombra can
@@chance2326bap contesting widow as easy as sombra? 😂😂😂 you’re forced to use his 22 second CD lamp to not risk dying from the interaction from range. Sombra has the tools to get to widow easily and the utility to deny her grapple.
@@chance2326nice cope
I can't think of another hero in the entire game that has Widow's AURA. When she is on the enemy team, she doesn't even need to be firing her weapon and she will add a level of pressure that is completely unique to widowmaker.
A good winston has crazy aura, genji and cree too
@@HalfAryanHunterGatherer I could argue that genji and cree are much harder to play since they will be in the middle of fights contrary to widow. Winton is really good right now because he got buffed and is really good in season 12 so it's easier to play around him
@@brandonnowonline6533 sombra has a huge aura. Good winston/doom/dva/bastion/bap/kiri do as well. Maybe hog. In some maps (this caveat applies to widow too), especially in the past, pharah. Mercy, same caveat, in the past too.
its like hog with hitscan hook with no range and shorter CD
This is what I’ve always said. Sombra is second.
They nerfed Hanzo into the ground and he wasn't even as strong as Widowmaker. The Overwatch devs are actual chimps
Exactly. And let’s be honest. Hanzo had to lead his shots. And his arrows arc. He took way more skill to one shot being a projectile based hero inside of a high mobility game. But widow doesn’t get nerfed 😂😂😂😂. I haven’t played in seasons because they have done shit like this.
chimps ? i strongly believe they are lower than chimps. look at tank balance.
That and I remember at the time the complaint centered around his ability because "its too strong its so annoying" and now look. haha. thats what we get. half a decade later and widow is still Widowing everybody when somebody wantss to shoot people with little resistance a majority of the time
@@fsdeadshot5258it doesn’t matter that you have to “lead your shots” when the projectile size and hitbox is miles beyond reasonable and there is no mechanical training behind what you’re doing. shooting and hoping you hit your target will always be easier by definition than sustained tracking of an enemy
You have to track the enemies movements on hanzo beyond mid-range and hoping you hit your target will not get you beyond plat don't talk about how easy a hero is if you don't even know how they Play him
This 50% winning rate mentality the Dev team has is always a problem. If they nerf her, then she wont get picked, and her winning rate goes down. The want all heroes at 50% even if it is at the expense of everyone else having an enjoyable experience.
I can see their point though. Ill play into a widow if i knew chances are they will lose so long we dont have a widow. If statics show she loses most of her games, then why the hell would i complain over a free win. They higher you, the less of that character youd see because they care more about winning.
@@Jae_JETTSo just because you win it's okay? So you can play and hate every second of that game but because you won it's not a problem. No wonder this game is unfixable. 🤦🏿♂️
@@bobbooby2994 Dude im trying to find out in what world does this happen. In what world does someone dominate on Widow, but still lose their game. They will get bullied by their team into switching before they reach the second minute of the match. Shes freaking fine.
@@Jae_JETT She has a 49% win rate among the highest ranks, but these people cant understand what is really like to play widow since they arent capable.
@@Jae_JETT in the current timeline we are living in dude. Bullied by who exactly if they aren't in voice or chat. Nothing you said address the point I brought up. If you win the game and it's still not fun is that a good thing? If the character isn't fun to play against, with and as in probably that order it's bad for the game lol the fact you can't even accept these basic concepts is why the game is doomed. Devs are trash sure but damn is this community and it's thinking also a huge problem
Had a game like half an hour ago going against Colorhex on blizzard world. We were going to win the game pretty easily. Chex was playing Tracer/Cass for most of the game and my team was doing good but right at third point he swapped to widow and made the game 5x harder than it needed to be. Every fight he would kill 1 or 2 and made it nearly impossible to contest with the respawns. We finally managed to win the second he didn't get a pick but holy crap that was such an unfun experience.
And then youll have plat players be like “just go winston” and blizz listens to them 😂
@@vape42069just go Sombra Bro!!!! Definitely Not a Flaw in Hero Design!!!!
@@vape42069just play a hero who can dive her then, it’s not that hard to get close to her with some hero’s
@@vape42069”just shoot her” mfs have me seething at the teeth
Marvel Rivals does not have a Widowmaker equivalent. Just saying.
Not yet...
Soy Rivals
@@sucinistro Soyverwatch 2
Snipers are factually a fun and popular archetype stop making it a widow problem when it’s clearly the format issue
Hey I love Marvel Rivals. But I'll bet anything that black widow will most likely be a sniper, maybe even Hawkeye.
Real ones know that “Games ruined by Widowmaker” has been a thing for way too long
Lmao chipsa
A throwback 😄
If you butcher Hanzo, then you butcher Widow. It’s math…
Cap. A bow vs a snipper rifle. Dafk are you'll smoking on
@@brokentoy9😂
hanzo can do consistent and high burst damage at close range and midrange, has always access to a lot mobility thus is able to easily move around to better position and take highground , can fire high damaging projectile faster than widow, can poke and can one shot lucio, juno, kiriko, mercy and moira (as well as a few dps).
Widow without her oneshot wouldn't just be butchered and loose her identity, she would be completely worthless and unplayable at every single rank
Hanzo right now is playable
Don’t butcher Hanzo, and don’t butcher Widow. Just bring back an off tank
@@frantichornet0077answer his statement lil bro
if you really want to debate idiots about widowmaker, go to forums, I made a post a week or two ago talking about how outrageous widowmaker is in anything above metal ranks and that she needs a full rework, saying how she has 7 shots in her gun and can get 7 kills with that on a hitscan from 60meters away, no cooldown or anything just needs to see an enemy for a frame. Also, that sombra doesn't do anything to certain heroes and gets shut down by a bunker comp, especially when the other team has a illari or brig. I had so many people try and tell me I'm wrong due to braindead reasons it's unreal, a few didn't.
Overwatch forums unironically has the most delusional people with the worst takes I've ever seen.
Because they’re all silver- diamond where there’s no meta or thinking involved. Once you play in high level games you see how dumb this hero is. Zero cooldown one shots, no damage drop off, and great mobility
@@maryannguss9029Yeah in low level lobbies she isn’t that big of a deal. Literally a free pick as venture or sombra. Mostly because she is always alone. Even with a mercy, once you start damaging her she panics and the mercy does no damage to help lol.
Bro they are weirdos actual silver boomers
I totally agree with you, its so hard to get her as sombra in higher level play T_T she's constantly protected
It's simple. No matter how WEAK widow may be in the actual meta, as long as the widow player can aim she will always be the most broken dps hero. It doesn't matter what you play, you can play all the squishy dive heroes you want, as long as the widow can land that ONE shot from that uncontestable distance. It does not matter. The entirety of your game is in the widow's hand to miss. If she does miss, woo hoo! If she doesn't miss? You just lose. No matter how practical it is, there should not be a hero who has the potential to one shot 4/5 of your team, because I've SEEN it happen. I've been on tank and just watched the killfeed tick down with widow headshot after widow headshot after widow headshot.
I fail to see how people say this when it only applies to about 10-20% of the possible engage points on all maps combined, and the rest are impacted by the other side's pathing, cooldown usage, and awareness of the position the widow will be in.
Then dude, as a tank main myself, thats your fault and your teams. You know she cant one shot you. So go Winston or Dva, or Ball and keep the pressure on her. Shes not hard to kill dude. And ill keep saying it, Sombra and a tank will definitely handle it. Shes not hard to deal with. She cant one shot bastion nor torb due to armor. Brig has a shield. There's options.
I should also add: the map you get to play is selected as to balance the modes first, and then balance the maps within the modes. So on average you'll get equal amounts of push, 5cp, clash, and also koth, escort and hybrid. Now, on push she's properly comfortable on 2 maps out of 4, on 5cp it's maybe 2/3 points out of 10 (2 maps * 5 points) where she's alright, in rest she's a disadvantage, and in clash 5 or 6 sections, but those are still somewhat challenging, just people haven't properly adapted yet.
So we have 6 modes, in 2 (5cp+koth) of which she's quite bad to play, 3 (hybrid, clash and push, although I'd put clash and push closer to feels bad to play) where she can kind of work alright, and 1 (escort) where she's more often good than not.
Sounds kind of like the odds arent actually jn her favor if she's not swapping. Now granted, if a player only goes her on some maps or even sections of maps, she'll make an impression of very strong hero, but even then she's not that hard to deal with by doing the same, swapping to make her life without a pocket actual hell - or beating her at her own game by just outsniping her.
P.S. the same principle of balancing out categories then entries inside categories applies to characters in mystery heroes. You get ~33% of lives on each role, but much less lives on a specific dps than on specific tank/supp cause the 33% of lives is divided by more heroes, thus each gets smaller share of total.
@@YTHandlesWereAMistake Whats sad is alot of people wont take the time to read your comment in full. I loved it. Completely true. The odds are against her lol.
@@Jae_JETT It's not as simple as that lmfao. I can't fly onto a widow by myself because she'll get help and I'll blow up you NEED a full dive team to do it but if my team doesn't go dive then it's just over with.
"Widow is oppressive, lets nerf dive characters"- Blizzard probably.
I would applaud her removal from the game
Add Sombra to that list please
cope
Nah bruh she got BACK
And Sombra…and Trace…and Mercy 😂
I aplplaud for team4's removal from the game.
Widow is a super low skill sniper compared to other games, 0 bullet drop, 0 flinch when getting shot at, and a grappling hook like wtf 😂
The devs build the game from bottom up. Make it easy for bronze, annoying for anyone with skill. If they don't get picked enough, they get a massive buff. The devs are either Bronze or NEVER touch the game.
@@Adventist1997 devs are bronze, sure casters/testers are other entity, but watching their sneak peaks into Venture and OW esports special events I'm pretty sure plats are like god tier for them
Right? Like how can she have a one shot capability. She pretty much has a junk ult every bullet she shoots. Makes no sense in a game where one shots are “frowned” upon.
@@blissless127 A one shot capability that consinst in hitting the head of a moving character and you compared that to junk ult, what are you even saying, you all sound like a bunch of bronze players talking.
You're wrong. You can 360 no scope on CoD. On top of that the "more skill sniper games" have inertia and strafing penalties, none of the games have a flying character (unless you sniping someone out of a plane on battlefield).
She doesn't even have to fire her weapon to be a constant threat in every match. That's how broken she is.
Literally just seeing a widow on high ground aiming is enough to make players change their game plan
Either we address the problems and some heroes keep their One Shot potential, or we go back to 6v6 so that 2 tanks can handle the pressure of a One Shot better, I think. Widowmaker is undeniably an assassin, a sniper and even her voice line suggests it, the famous "One Shot, One Kill" so she becomes a threat when you are in her line of sight. She has low HP (200 hp) and can't One Shot Tanks, some of them being able to literally dive her like Wrecking Ball and if you are alone you can't do anything about it, it's high skill, high reward. I also didn't mention characters that can keep her from holding an angle like Kiriko and Sombra being a menace to her since her time to kill is so low, frankly if you miss your first shot, you're dead in under a second.
The most recurring line in the chat you will see if you are underperforming is "Can you swap Widow?" and when mentionning swapping DPS heroes Widow is the first one that comes to me.
But she has too much threat in a teamfight, this is certain.
In OW1 there were 2 tanks so most of the time the angles would be blocked because of shields, but now with 1 tank out of the way, it's a firing range, especially if the tank has no shield.
It all comes down to balancing, because removing her One Shot potential is also removing her character identity because what does she do then? Silencing enemies when hitting them?
Fundamentally, she was the exact same hero in OW1 but the 5v5 format made her too oppressive.
Time will tell but if the balance team can somehow pull off something, she could still have a place among other DPS heroes.
A hit scan one-shot with an incredible escape along with all the supports immoralities and powerful sustain isn't "high skill, high reward". Widow is not hard to aim I'm sorry people really overvalue hit-scan aim. A little investment in an aim trainer and some training you can aim well. No bullet drop, no bullet travel time. Its instant damage. She doesn't have to play the same game as everyone else, she doesn't have deal with 90% of the games cooldowns or interactions just at her base kit. Like Samito said in the video you can go 10/10 as widow and still hold the lobby hostage just because of her ridiculous power at base. On top of supports who can instantly bail her out. She is easy to play esp after season 9 hit box changes. You as the enemy have to team invest and hard comm to counter 1 hero or play widow yourself which is terrible game design. Any dive you do is easily negated between her grapple and the amount of immoralities and instant burst healing and constant threat of just one shotting you at any range. You have to burn cooldowns as dive heroes and resources to get to her while she can one shot you the entire time right up to the dive.
@@DEADFUTURE2K Widow is hard to aim for majority of the playerbase, which is what most people are referring too. She is not balanced, but you can't make your argument from the viewpoint of the top 10-15% of players and retroactively apply it to everyone. Widow is hard for MAJORITY of the playerbase. This does not make her fair or okay in current state, just pointing this out. She is a high skill high reward hero, the problem is the reward is vastly disproportioned.
I cant tell which side your on with this take because you literally expressed why she isn't a problem while also making her sounds like the biggest problem to ever exist. She has low health and numerous characters, tanks included, can dive her and force her to swap. A bad widow will cost you the match. Shes one of the highest characters i see that people ask to get swapped off of because there's better options almost always. Her place is sniping. Thats her identity. She does what shes design to do.
@@Jae_JETT I just wanted to highlight the 2 points of view, obviously I'm against removing her one shot since I'm a Widow main and games are either you get good picks and you dominate the space or you're getting countered and forced off the hero.
I know Samito is highly against her at her current state but it's reflecting the MMR he is at because I'm mostly gold and people at my rank aren't always good with Widow, ennemies are also very predictable and are moving in the same way when they spot the ennemy widow while jumping arround so it makes them an easy target if you're used to it.
Dealing with her and her threat is something to work on, as with an enemy Sombra or Tracer constantly hiding behind your backline forcing you to turn around.
However if you are really good with Widow and nobody makes an effort to counter you, the impact you have is ridiculous but since she is a glass cannon, she can be punished a lot.
What is not right is that the hitbox are kinda stretched out, you can headshot people even if you are not completely on their head which makes the hero easier to land headshots with.
Not sure if it's about the hitboxes or the size of bullets but if you make sure you can only headshot while ON their head it would make a difference at least.
Just another consequence of not having a second tank on the team as well
Blizzard has always put character identity above game balance. They don’t touch her one shot because she’s a “sniper”. They don’t consider hanzo to be as “snipery” as widow. This is bad, but it’s consistent behavior. I wanted them to remove sym’s turrets for a long time, but they won’t cuz she’s a “builder”.
I hate lasers in general. Sym, Zarya and i thinks shes a wayyy bigger issue then people make her out to be. But the identity of a character is important because that is the thing that attracts an audience. Widow is a sniper who can grapple and lay a trap. Hanzo is an archer who can dash mid air, climb walls, see through walls and spam. The only issue he has (Other then his ult) is his damage. He is 1 damage buff away from being broken. Widow only has her sniper. Her damn assault rifle is a poor excuse for a close/mid-range option.
I miss the days when characters had defined roles, Widow was the best choice for open maps like Junkertow, but then you had the tight corridors of King's Row were Hanzo is supposed to shine, etc.. not every character was viable at every map or situation. Actually implementing moba elements to make people think, but nope, let's hear the loud dps players complaining how McCree don't have mobility and he should outduel snipers, why not? It's not even a significant number of people, just a loud bubble on forums and whatnot, they destroyed the game
@@RRRRRRRRR33 I personally blame the content creators
@@Jae_JETT I've seen some people blaming the "pro" players, etc.. in the end, Blizzard only took the very worst feedback and ruined Overwatch. It's so dumb how Symmetra and Torb were reworked time and time again, very niched tower characters, but let's thrown that moba mentality away and make them viable at everything. Then you look at the pick rate nowadays, no one plays Sym and Torb. So, you erase their identity in favor of what exactly?
@@MurdogYT Sure, they deserve a lot of scrutiny
I think one of the things that hasn’t really gotten talked about enough is the boon of the health passive. Not having to rely on supports for heals does wonders for her ability to hold an angle.
Just means you can't leave her uncontested.
@@Jae_JETT How many things in this game are you going to say can't leave uncontested? The list is too long at this point.
@@nraosec Uhhh I feel like you shouldn't be able to leave anyone uncontested period due to the potential of what could happen.
@@Jae_JETTso you gonna contest 5 people at once? Or is your whole team? Not how it works. You need a whole team on one widow.
@@Alexandria-i5j you need a whole team on widow.? This isn’t freaking pro play dude. No you don’t😂
Someone FINALLY speaking out about this character!!! Widow is my number 1 most hated character in this entire game, and NO ONE talks about it. Nobody likes widow for her game design, she ruins the game for everybody in the lobby. She is 50% of the reason I hate these dog ass made for hitscan maps like Havana (All the other hitscan characters COMBINED besides Cassidy make up the other 50%). She is the ONLY CHARACTER IN THE ENTIRE GAME that forces the ENTIRE team to reposition and respect her by LOSing, why? Cuz she's existing. Cuz she's staring in a direction. It's so cancer. Also not to mention her pointless charge up for her 1 shot, like bro she needs like 30% which charges in maybe a second or a little less, and that's all she needs to kill you. What's the point of the charge even being there?
what about venture, sombra, pharah, torb, illari, weaver, kiri, bap, mauga, hog, and any hero getting a mercy pocket? widow is annoying but atleast the player had to aim at me to kill me unlike all the other braindead mouth breathing heroes.
None of those characters can make eye contact with me across the map for a microsecond and send me to spawn. That's my issue with widow that none of those characters you mentioned have. There's actual interaction. You could argue hog, but to be honest hog can be countered way easier than people make it out to be, just a little team work and he struggles so much to do anything meaningful. But don't get me wrong, 95% of those characters you named, I also hate or have something about them that I hate
@willyp9593 the whole game is brain dead. Idk how you players haven't gotten used to the heroes? Sucks to suck
Skill issue
Wudow needs 70%+ charge to kill a 250hp target
Crazy how the sniper in tf2 who can one shot 6 out of the nine classes in 0.2 seconds and is hit scan with a full charge can kill every class has more counter play
Probably because Valve had the sense to not give him any mobility options.
He's also a problem.
Ditto, the red dot on the wall. Again in tf2, spy (the invis hero like sombra) would often deal with a sniper however it still felt fun for both sides.
TF2 Sniper is easier to dive, but there's actually less counterplay because if he misses, the target he's shooting at won't know exactly where they were shot from, and Sniper can be a lot more tanky depending on which class is actually engaging him. If Widow didn't have grapple, or if it had less range, then she'd be the better designed one.
@@brimstoner982 they still gave him danger shield, razorback and jarate bush combo, along with being a reason why caber got nerfed (with medics I guess), sniper is still a big trouble, but valve did say they regret making him and are definitely more aware of his stinking presence
Add a scope glint and flinch to Widow and she immediately becomes more balanced. It could all be so simple
Honestly i like this idea. Or you could add a laser
You can already see her immediately when she’s on your screen because of the red outline so scope glint wouldn’t really change much. Flinch doesn’t do much either because most of the time she’s outside of shooting range and if you’re already shooting her she’s probably grappling away anyways
@@whateverusername Im fine giving her something just to shut people up without touching her numbers.
@@whateverusername it’s more about prevention than anything. Scope glint makes you an easier target to headshot so Snipers can’t stay scoped in all the time. And Flinch definitely helps against opponents with good aim. It’s about increasing the skill gap not making her unplayable. Both these things just add elements that force the Widow to play smarter with her abilities
@@whateverusername That's the point of flinch tho, she has to grappling away due to the being shot, that will make her less oppressive to play against. The current Widow can just tank some of your shot and put a bullet in your face like nothing ever happen
Hanzo hitting a lucky shot is annoying af but so is a 60 meter death lol
The only reason I haven't mentioned widow is because if where talking poor design flaws that don't belong in the game .. Sombra exist
Can be anywhere unseen at anytime , can shut down abilities uncontested , can bail out of fight whenever she pleases , can hack health pack , can see low health target through walls which is crazy to me , and already hard to hit.. I much rather take widow
u must be a gold or plat 5 max if u think sombra is stronger than widow
You must be cardboard 7 if you think sombra isn’t stronger than widow, at least you can see and catch the widow while still being able to use your abilities to get her. Tf you gonna do against some 24/7 invisible mfr who hacks you outta your abilities and shoots the rona at you then kills you in under a minute
Ladies ladies calm down. Let’s just remove both Widow and Sombra from the game.
@@chance2326 You must be dust 10 if you don't Play with your team which makes sombra really bad :D she's an assassin hero made to take 1v1's if u don't give her them she can't do as well or just react to the virus and shoot back?
Sir I'd like to know how you're using the time travel mechanic, it officially hasnt been invented yet but you're clearly talking in 2024 from 2017 start where dive was a thing and people were forced to teamplay @@engineergaming3830
You gotta be fair butcher every one shot in the game. I feel like if a widow is holding my game hostage then I have to go sombra or dive to counter her and even then if she’s cracked at the game she can just 360 one shot you and it’s just not okay. It’s crazy to think that I had to go on Reddit of all places to figure out. Why is there been a huge surgeons of widows and it’s crazy the fact of the matter is it’s not even just the one shot it’s the threat of her being on the opposing team, if she’s on the field, then you have to change your whole play style just to ensure you don’t get picked off. The reason I know this is because the second a widow swapped off to a different hero. We started moving like it was no problem.
You just described the core of Overwatch that's been around since the beginning. Swapping to deal with a problem. Enemy team got shields for days? Go Bastion to break the shields. Enemy team have a Phara/Mercy making the game unpayable? Go Widow. Have a DVa constantly eating damage? Go Zarya.
If we’re talking about fairness, then remove all one shots and all invulnerablilities from the game. I hate widow one shot as much as the next guy, but it needs to exist in a game where supports have abilities like lamp, suzu, and lifegrip.
@@InvaderZae.Funny thing here, as a widow player, below higher GMs, a pharah alone can be a big problem, and a pharah with mercy is just a huge one on many maps cause of the pathing options available to the pharah.
Granted, they need a bit of a brain, that might be tough for some players out there.
@@arshnoorsran9191When supports were bitching and moaning about their role being "Shit" near the start of overwatch2 was because characters like Widow and Hanzo were being played due to the fact that it was so annoying trying to kill anything through the sheer amount of sustain in the game.
The role wasn't even bad it was literally a skill issue.
I don't like the argument that widow should have her one shot removed due to "forcing me to change my play style" as it sounds dumb to dumb down the game which is also hypocritical from Sam as he's been stating that the overwatch devs are "removing character interaction" and then advocating for the very thing he said he dislikes. The argument should be what could we do to make a widow less oppressive. In my eyes she's not even broken she can just feel annoying to play against in a dysfunctional setting.
you figured out how to adapt in a video game gj why cry about it then.
While I also dislike Widow's one shot ability I think people are so averse to Hanzo's one shot is that he can spam it down chokes more effectively than Widow can, because it's a projectile. Spamming projectiles around corners though is kind of an issue with the projectiles in general though. During the Pharah meta (Still never forgiving Blizzard it btw) she was everywhere just launching it down lanes all day with no repercussions. As long as Hanzo has the projectile type shots they're not gonna give him the one shot back, but I don't think Widow should have it either in the 5v5 environment where there is one less tank to try and cover for you.
It’s because voice lines involving window usually talk about one shots so they don’t touch it cuz it her identity 😂
Ah yes... Remember the voice lines saying MCREE. Yeah, I guess they can't change her voice lines... 🙄
Of course one shots are her identity. We already have a long range rifle based character that doesnt one shot, its Ashe. If she stops one shotting she'll literally stop existing in games completely, thats all she does.
@@copiagueeagle
She can't one shot a Tank. It makes sense to only one shot the Support, but she one shot's DPS too. That's a huge problem in 5v5.
“One punch is all I need”
@@Adventist1997that’s different
Reinhardt lost his 1 shot through Baptiste Window aswell. Wodow keeps her 1 sjot but Rein cant do it through an ultimate
UHHH... cause his firesrike does half damage due to his TWO firestrikes bruh! Rein is ahhh in OW 2, dont expect him to be good.
@@5XDAhis two firestrikes that can’t two tap most squishies lol. Widow just aim down sights and shoots for a one shot. Rein combos with an ult and uses a cd to get that same effect. And rein couldn’t ever one shot reaper mei but widow can
@@5XDAhis two firestrikes that can’t two tap most squishies lol. Widow just aim down sights and shoots for a one shot. Rein combos with an ult and uses a cd to get that same effect. And rein couldn’t ever one shot reaper mei but widow can
Well why compare a tank with a dps😂
Did you forget he got like 3x the health and any other advantage over dps role :)
Im so lost because last time i checked, he can still one shot certain characters so no he didn't. But like you said hes using a ultimate so this argument doesn't really apply here and hes a tank.
wait i totally didn't notice that. i thought they nerfed her ages ago. The moment i first heard they would switch to only having one tank i knew Widow players will become opressive, since one tank was always there to deal with the widow, while the other tank did his job with the rest of the team.
@@Desgaroth her effective range got nerfed prior to ow2 switch and then again against all hetoes in s9 Otherwise im not sure there really were changes. "Crazy mobility" Sam talks about is the hook that doesnt attach in 30% of the time on a.. 12s? cooldown. Near complete inability to do anything in close range (most maps apply) and a complete useless ability on E and a ult that ends as soon as she dies.. idk
@@YTHandlesWereAMistakeher range got buffed later and on top of that even if you can't hit a single grapple your supports peel is way stronger and will bail you out you act like widow is such a bad character 😂
@@YTHandlesWereAMistake Meanwhile a widow grapples up and headshots you across the map and there was literally nothing you could have done, other than prayed they miss their shot. Just because some people aren't an amazing widow, doesn't mean she isnt broken when played properly. If you compare somebody who plays Hanzo properly against a Widow, the Widow still has the upper hand due to her one shot potential. Hanzo takes twice the effort to play.
If it takes a tank with 3x her health pool and broken armor changes, or an almost permanent invisible character to make her switch then you need to fix your game.
@fockythefrog8516 do you not know that height does impact the range too? Do you not know there's cover to use and grapple sound?
Also sorry, but widow and hanzo are my mains since 2017, and while I'm not perma-GM, I think being around mid-masters with peaks in GM and scrimming for several years against 4100-4200 teams is enough experience on both of them. I discount a year of goats on zarya, so for several 1000s of hours across many accounts, and widow is far more situational than hanzo is.
Very little people actually know how to play her properly, like she gets properly strong inside masters maybe, but even that is handleable - so it's already a 5% of the population that is affected. Hanzo can tank bust, can kill behind corners, can climb without cooldown, can manipulate and extend climbing to go sideways on a ledge, can dodge with 5s cooldown, can see you through walls on cooldown and still has very good range and can easily be played into many, many comps and maps where widow just falls over. In direct duels, at the top of the skill curve - yes, widow has an edge. But you don't have to always duel her. And she's effective on about 40%, maybe 55% of the maps (and even then only on portions of most of those) that you get to play (that's different to maps in game total because game selects modes first and then map inside mode, so you get same amount of matches on clashes, 5cps and pushes repeating same maps, than koths, hybrids and escorts despite there being way more maps in the second group)
Do you know what skill is one of the best to learn for a widow player? Avoiding duels, especially with the other widow. Why bother if you can exploit the fact the enemy team thinks theirs can handle you, and she might've already done that a few times in the match. So you live rent free in their head while cleaning up the enemy team one by one on weird angles. And the same principle of going on weird angles and annihilating the team instead of dueling someone face to face is how you have to play hanzo in order to not get rolled by most of the close-to-mid range cast.
And if we talk that some characters are strong situationally, dont these become a problem too: sombra, ana (who's actually way less situational), genji, ball, doom, venture, and ones like reaper in the lower ranks?
@@milo4075 i dont act like she's bad if you read what I say. Supports peel in about 20-30% of the games, the rest you're forgotten about, and her range got buffed less than the healthpool changes nerfed it, in total it was a nerf and properly affects only widow v widow situations or a very small distance, around a tracer blink's range.
Report every widow? You don’t have to tell me twice
No
Do it no balls
Rein: yells “HAH” and jumps back before rocketing forward in a highly telegraphed motion, hoping to grab an enemy, and can be killed/stunned before getting the 1 shot, and can only do this once every 7 seconds
Widow: *LE SHOOT*
Just make it to wear during her ult is the only time she can hit those one shots.
Match her crit to Hanzo's maybe give her a slow effect on her headshots
This, matches her identity, keep the “one shot one kill” voice line and bam problem solved.
Their balancing has always been hypocritical. They removed Reaper's ability to leave Wraith because they didn't want hard CC to be overridden by abilities, then a few season into OW2, they make Lifeweaver who can bring the entire team out of hard CC ults like Grav. They also removed Reaper's ability to tank bust, just so they could then give it to Hanzo, Ashe, Cass, Widow, and any other long-range, instance based damage hero who, btw, risk nothing in comparison to how Reaper had to be point blank in the most dangerous position you could possibly be in.
They simply do not understand how this game works.
Reaper is suddenly good right when his mythic came out hmmmm $$$$$$$
@@o7-pika500 Four of his best pockets were buffed.
@@o7-pika500Yep😂
reaper main btw
I absolutely don’t agree with the fact that Hanzo can’t have a hero identity without the one shot
Widow should have a projectile sniper with bullet drop
For tanks with shields, they have to use their shield to block window. Sigma needs to be keeping tabs on the widow so that he can reposition his shield to block her whenever she moves to a different position, sacrificing a shield that could have been used to block the rest of the enemy team has to be spent on a singular character. For rammatra a shield that he could have used to cover an approach or a retreat, or placed at his feet to allow him to dance around it to make brawling in nemesis form safer has to be spent on blocking the widow for at most 4 seconds. For Reinhardt he’s stuck shielding his team from whatever direction the widow is shooting from, leaving little room for him to start taking space while also leaving gaps for the other enemies to attack him or his team. And Winston will be Winston. For mobility, hanzo has a wall climb and a dash, allowing him to get around slightly faster and get to higher places but once he’s in danger he’s got nothing to get out besides storm arrow to maybe kill his target faster. For rat’s mine combo he needed to have at least one mine available, meaning that he needed to either wait to get a mine back after using them or not use a mine that could have been used to get around the map. For doomfist the punch is usable for mobility and is his primary damage dealer, meaning that once he used it that was it. And for widow, she gets a grappling hook that does everything hanzo’s wall climb and dash do but better, and allow her to get out of danger whenever she feels like it.
For their one shots, hanzo’s ability to deal damage outside of the burst damage tied to a single arrow that has to be manually drawn is on a cooldown and a time limit. For junkrat the mine is tied to a cooldown and it’s also used for his mobility. For doomfist he has to get empowered punch first, which relies on his opponents fucking up before he can even attempt to go for a one shot. And for widow she gets an automatic rifle and a venom mine for dealing with threats up close.
I hate widow especially when no one dives her but instead try to outsnipe her and constantly lose
how the hell is venture not considered a mobile hero and not 225hp?
Because they already are getting heat for not making a venture skin. Last thing they need to do is dish out nerfs lmaoooo
@@Jae_JETT she does need a nerf tho. She gets way too much value for just going into the enemy team and then dashing away
@@shadowclaws45 No i completely agree. I thought it was a cool concept for a character, but the character has way too much mobility.
@@Jae_JETT Getting heat from who? Venture is arguably the least charismatic character in the entire roster. Fun to play to some extent, but zero charisma
@@RRRRRRRRR33 I meant the devs getting heat from the fan base
The problem with widow is her slim body and her mobility. A one shot hero like widow should be a dummy thick clunky slow hero with massive weapon that’s slow to scope but has a one shot.
@@BirdManCinema Nah, she just shouldnt have mobility at all in 5v5. Now that the offtank role is completely gone, she has access to more space at the skill floor, along with the immortalities and get out of jail free cards that supports can give to widow, makes her completely uncontestable by 70% of all heroes and unkillable by 99.9% of all heroes. She shouldnt have mobility when she is already an extreme threat without it and you cant even dive her because she has a better mobility cooldown then hanzo, but hanzo gets gutted and not her.
If the "hero's identity" is to be THAT oppressive, why the hell would they want to keep her identity?
I'd rather see Marvel Rivals' game uploads from you everyday like Necros has been doing than beating the dead horse issues in OW.
Reminds me that one experimental change where widows headshots did damage overtime was kinda cool and would at the very least be more a more interactable and survivable oneshot. Idk if that would make widow terrible but id imagine you could make it so the damage is fairly quick or half/a chunk of it is quick and the other part is damage over like a second or a second and a half. Not really a solution or necassary change but would be better or maybe a change that could go along with other changes to her or the rest of the oneshots.
Yup it'd be great
Just give her the sniper from Fortnite unironically. It was fun to predict movement then get a headshot
I want to play her Mirrorwatch version. That was when I took a break from playing so I missed it.
Widow is like this because of players from other games getting into that one, like apex, fortnite, cs and valorant specifically, overwatch has a big overlap of audience with valorant and since hitscan sniper is a viable option in either game, they don't lose a chunk of playerbase that plays both games equally or prefers valorant more, because projectile and ability based characters in overwatch require more commitment.
You can deny it, but it is plausible if you see blizzard as more self aware entity it is, just like how the likely reason why doom was moved to tank role wasn't just his oneshot or broken mechanics or that he is like big and easy to hit, but also how loyal and big his playerbase is, because doom as a tank carries queue times, because a lot of doom players would queue tank just to play doom, this seems intentional if you think about it.
It always amused me that for the longest time, a sniper character had a better mobility than Reaper who can't even poke. Yes, i'm talking about pre-buff TP where Reaper was literally a target practice for many years
Doomfist, a character who had to actively put himself in danger of stuns and burst damage to get his one shot…nah thats broken, widow who clicks left click on your head from 10,000 meters…..nah thats fair
Hanzo losing his identity was hard to cope, as a Hanzo main. Hanzo arrow takes way longer to charge up, and then you have to predict and land each shot. I'm finding that I have to land 3 shots on average to kill a target. The hero is dead. Why deal with that when I can just spray as soldier or 2-3 shot as Ashe as well?
hear me out, add the venom mine effect shortly for widow headshot so that she technically can oneshot but it still can be healed with a competent team, for example 200dmg from full power headshot but it does 70-100 damage over time with the venom mine effect. this way she still has a chance to oneshot another widow instantly or hit a sick shot on a flanking tracer but it wont feel oppressive.
Yesyes exactly! The april fools widow felt great to play, and i say that as a widow main. That would be the best way to keep her character fantasy as a sniper and also lessen her burst damage potential. No clue why it’s not permanent by now; they already coded it into the game for april fools.
Reminds me of the Thorn hand cannon from destiny. Which is STILL insanely strong so this might not be a bad rework idea
The thing that ruins OW the most is mid-long range hitscanners, but people aren't ready for this conversation yet
IMO they should rework the charge mechanic to only charge up when the crosshairs is on a target, that way you can’t just get clicked when you turn a corner.
and maybe make the charge per-target, so each player has their own charge
@ciach0_ the issue with that is you still have no clue where she is so she could still potentially wipe your team. Maybe a red dot marker or something when full charge?
They need to nerf how quickly Widowmaker can fire 1-shot kill shots and buff her scoped body-shot damage and other things to compensate. 2.5x crit needs to go away.
Maybe they can do 140 damage body shots with 2x crit damage, nerf full-charged scope shot from 0.9 to like 1.1 seconds or something, and then buff her pathetically weak Venom Mine and could do a slight 1 or 2 second cooldown reduction for Grapple. With less frequent 1-shot kill shots, they could change Widowmaker to be more similar to her Mirrorwatch version in that doing a full-charged sniper shot on an enemy briefly reveals their location to Widowmaker only, and her ult would expand enemy weak points.
Sombra is more broken and more common in games. How can a character go invisible whenever she wants and stop others from playing the game. Complete buzzkill for the rest of the lobby
Sombra isn't more broken than widow but she sure is so fucking annoying.
Both are corn ball characters. Sombrais by design an unfair character. Which is why she has the voiceline "where's the fun in playing fair"
She is designed to unfairly have an advantage over other characters and shut them down.
She may not be as oppressive as widow thanks to the rework but she still si fundamentally a character that should not exist.
She is like brig on release in the sense they made a characte to counter a specific type of other characters. Which really caused counter swaping to become a much more prevalent problem over the years, and it's even more exacerbated now in 5v5.
It’s easier to react to a Sombra by using audio. Literally best counter to the character. If you can track her through her voice lines, coming out of invis, virus it’s not hard to counter.
And he thinks Sombra is overhated. No, that bitch deserves all the hate.
@@PunchM3 Bro if I play Lucio against her I can't do anything. Hacked + Virus + 3 Headshots I die. How is any of that fair? Even if I do react I'm still gonna get hacked + Virus and lose 75% of my health whilst she can TP out.
Honestly if she was a projectile hero with bullet drop, that would probably be more than enough in this format.
15:09 - 15:17 what a fucking terrible take. I do agree Widow needs changes, but what you said at the timestamp is ridiculous.
Real
Considering we've seen actual proof how they ban just with the number of reports to your account, I've now been flipped to being glad a lot less people watch Sam or follow him blindly - opposed to how I was about it just a few hours ago and for the past 5 years.
Way to go, I guess.
Lol. Yeah, I hate widow but the take is putrid. The best part is that a Sombra player is standing on it.
This is the same energy he brought with Fredo and the whole 5v5, 6v6 debate. The hate that dude got ...
@@Jae_JETT
Freedo is the biggest shill in existence. He should get the hate rather than Samito. For lying and boot licking
You don’t buff Sombra when a a lot of hero’s health went to 225 instant melted by sombra she did not need any buffs but pop off they needed to sell the Korean pop skins
But I don’t think you can change widow without just removing her
Widow should move to tank 😂 each shot with knockback as cc
Hey that'd be fun for the widow
I say that as someone stupid enough to torture myself as a widow otp for 3 seasons now. The number of maps you get where she's actually properly viable in is.. about 20% and in 50% of the games at all I get sombras against me. About 30 more tracer/genji+winston or doom/ball trying to hunt me down, kiri, moira, etc.
Stuck mid-diamond.
Oh, fun fact, the selection of the map you play is not 1 out of all available maps. They actually make it 1 out of every mode available and only then 1 out of every map available. This leads to Push, 5CP and Clash being overplayed. I had 120 games in last season with 20 or so 5CP before I first saw Ilios.
And another fun thing, this applies to heroes in Mystery Heroes. You're balanced to play about 33% of the lives on each role. But with one role having 50% of the heroes, it gets only 1.7% per character, while the other two get 3.3% per character. Math not exact, but you get the point.
Feels like a yo-yo with the Season 12 actually being good and bad, both, simultaneously, at the same time but not.
Bro I have clip of me walking out of spawn on Mauga (Since I was pushed to my limit) and my entire team is killed by a widow on Busan. Widow requires no teamwork at all and has a ridiculous one shot. She was clearly just added to fill the classic sniper hero stereotype. If only I had a Dva or Off tank to deal with her and peel for my back line.
Tell your teammates not to peak her then lmao tf
Brother, and im a tank main when i say this, at what point do you just go rein or sigma to close the distance. Or when does the rest of your team switch to sombra or brig or any of the multiple characters that body widow. The blame literally goes to everyone but the widow for what you just said in my opinion lol. Punishing characters for potential is so wild to me. She has the potential to do what you said, but after that first kill it should have been a wakeup call that maybe you need to reevaluate your comp. Not to mention, you said you want a second tank to peel for your backline while you dive the widow. Why arent your support playing characters who have mobility or escapes or the ability to follow your dive. I know that widow was thinking your team was a bunch of bots lol
@@chance2326 fr
@@Jae_JETT Once again encouraging counter swapping not just for the tank but now for the entire team.
@@JakeTheMan784 Yeah, no one character is viable in every situation dude. I have an issue with only one role being forced to counter swap when its the role with 1 choice. But dps and support have infinity more combinations and options to counter swap to. I dont see this as an issue.
Widows bullet hitboxes btw now are slightly bigger than genji skurikens, as a hitscan 💀
I aggree, but I want oneshot combos for every hero back, instead of also removing it for Widow. Sorry but removing burst dmg, has made the game incredibly boring.
But at this point, they can do what ever they feel to do, cause on december 6th I just play Rivals and get my Burst dmg back, and this game doesn't even have one shot heroes.
can't wait for rivals
Punisher shotgun can 1 shot with a well placed shot? Spidey can also 1 shot combo
@@iwordplayi8165 I talked about oneshot combos are available in Rivals (burst dmg), but not oneshots. Spidey is a onshot combo.
But on Punisher I stand corrected, did not play him in the beta, becuase I wanted to try more unique game play heroes instead of usual FPS heroes. (well I ended up abusing a Hela every now and then).
@@Cushingura He's pretty fun actually! To me anyway, either when a Venom is getting too big for his britches, or when I wanna turn my brain off lol
@@iwordplayi8165 sadly there wasn't enough time to grind every hero, I focused on the ones that felt the most fun and grinded them. When the original game is released, I also gonna try out the ones, that looked boring at first glance.
I’ve seen people say that taking away widows one shot gets rid of her identity and that’s so delusional. Not only do the devs have hitscan bias but most of the players too
You made two points. I agree with the second one, there is a hitscan bias. But that first one is wild. Lets say right now widow cant one shot... what the hell else does she do as a sniper xD
Why would we take away her only thing. Her only thing. Even her ult is to help her do THE ONLY THING SHE DOES. Her Grapple is to help her get a better shot, her venom mine is to help her get information to take a better shot. Widow equals One shot. Taking away that from her is effectively deleting her from the game.
@@Jae_JETTBecause everyone is pretty retarded when it comes to balancing her for whatever reason. All they really want to do is over exaggerate her kit to make seem like she vastly op/very easy to play or simply complain as if she isn't like the 3rd or 4th easiest character to dive and kill in the game. All they have to do really is add flinch and increase the time it takes to fully charge her sniper to 100% for those 1 shot head shot kills and I guess add a glint of light when she is scoping in but people will still complain ╮😗╭.
@@Jae_JETT i already said it. make her damage output and rate of fire similar to Ashe. She at least was considered a "Sniper" by the OW1 community, even though her effective range is right in the same range as Sigmas shots explode at and she was able to deal with most squishie targets with 2 or 3 headshots. The damage falloff starts fast for that "sniper". So give Widow the same rate of fire, no charge mechanic at all and a similar damage as Ashe in her effective range, but let widow keep her effective range, making her able to deal with most "squishie" targets in 2 or 3 shots, while staying at the very least twice as far away from the enemy as ashe does without any damage falloff at all. it would still make her effective when her aim is good, but she would give the other team time to react and she would need to work with her team to secure kills instead of killing without the team initiating any fights.
@@MurdogYT that does not change the fact that her one shot that is by design an unfair mechanic with no reliable counterplay apart of changing to a hero that can counter her. Lower her damage output so it is not one but two shots or take away/heavily nerf her only mobility option. You can not have both anymore. not with the now existing design and balance of the game.
To make matters worse, widow makes the entire enemy team play differently😭.
The best nerf I could think of could be nerfing her falloff or nerfing anti dive to point where dive wouldn’t take over the game but actually be playable
It makes me laugh that tanks and supports have to make so many good decisions to have value, but DPS can just pick window and shoot 3 times in 3 seconds and get 3 kills without having to use any abilities or think about literally anything else
Lmao it’s actually not even that easy most of the time
Brother, you are wild for this. Hi tank main here, every match is hell and i can't make mistakes. Widows definitely have decisions to make xD. Try to climb playing widow and youll see what i mean. She easily countered. EASILY. And if you don't, your team will bully you off of her. Every shot is a decision. Every position is a decision. You have so much on the line if you miss, move, or stray away from your team.
If everyone dives the widow then it gets better but like mentioned in the video, people are hardly in comms. Also, I don't like how a single hero completely forces a team to change their play style.
Aight I see we have went off the deep end here
And cant swim xD
They even briefly removed Sigma’s “one shot combo” before addressing Widow, and his rock has a telegraph, he has to hit both primary fires shots, it requires you to be very close for the melee follow up, and any marginal healing stops it.
Brief my ass xD. Ive been waiting for that to come back for what feels like several months
I think nerfing widow’s one shot, but keeping it for lower health pool targets would be ideal (225hp headshot damage ?) The fact she can one shot almost every squishy in the game apart from tanks and bastion seems a little too much. Maybe shift some power into her sub machine gun, so she has a choice and it’s not just about the sniper. And maybe if you nerf the one shot, you could actually buff her grapple ? Maybe if she gets a kill she can reset her grapple cooldown, so it incentivises for her to chase a low hp target that’s she’s just hit with her sniper, mop up with the sub, and once the cool-down has reset upon the kill, she can grapple back out ? Every one loves a bit of movement right ?
So make her useless?
Nah I like one shotting Reapers
@@ExclusiveExcellenceexactly, anyone who says “nerf her” is retarded
I like some of your suggestions. Keeping the one shot for the characters with the best movement ability's isn't a bad idea. But i will say, she cant one-shot torb right now either. I dont know about mei becasue i dont play widow.
@@Jae_JETT having the one shot only for characters that are considered hard counters is actually brain dead like she just won’t see play time outside of high level where she will likely still dominate because at that level any character can look and seem op
Ive been saying it since OV1 Widow is a trash hero that is either dominating the games making it unplayable or shes absolutely useless and throws the game.
No one listened
Nah reporting every widow is so toxic 💀
5v5, 6v6 drama all over again
What do you expect from this whinybitch? 6 years and this guy can only complain, but still in the game cause all these cringe drama make him eat.
I play pharah, thats it...
it is fun killin' hanzo. It is dope when i have no mercy, and i two piece other mercy, and then 2 piece other pharah. Predicting tracer recall, and just destroying rats....
... but nothing gives me more joy than killin' widow. I dont always win widow battles, but when i do, i dont t-bag her. I just sit down on them. Cuz im laughing and dancing IRL.
As a Hanzo main I hate pharah, but this was funny as sh*t 🤣
VERY REAL SAM! ✊🏿
What if she had fewer bullets and a longer reload time like a real sniper 🤔
This is an...oddly timed video considering the meta right now, where every S-ranked character is basically a widow counter. Even in higher ranks, tanks like winston and dva stomp. Ball stomps. Sombra right now insta deletes her before she can react. A high level tracer usually goes positive in the matchup. I DO think she's a problematic character, as is any character whose entire identity is their gun with her case being the extreme, but why post this now, at a time when people most won't be on your side?
Is it fair that we need a massive burst flank or tank dive to counter a hero who can triple that amount of impact across the map on a 3 pixel angle
@@teakwondoughnut Sort of, actually. Widow is fragile and entirely mechanics dependant. If anything, Sombra is the unfair one. Is it fair that a character has perma-invis, only being vulnerable when they are already at an advantage? Is it fair for there to be a character who can reposition faster than you can turn around and reverse all your damage? I'm not arguing that widow isn't an issue. I'm just saying there was probably a better time to release this video because atm, I wouldn't say she's very strong. It makes the callout feel awkward.
Because hes just complaining. Its fair, he has the plateform. Kinda entitled though not going to lie because as you said, on paper she shouldn't even be a problem right now, according to the meta.
@@Jae_JETT true but even though the meta is against widow she can still dominate the lobby. Seems like a good time to address widow especially after hanzo gets another nerf
@@teakwondoughnutyeah but this argument can be used for any character. Also how does Hanzo nerds have anything to do with the strength of a widow.
The thing with Widow its that it takes the team part from the Team based game, like, she can do plays by her own, she dont need tank, she dont need supp, she only needs headshots
“If I can’t have fun you can’t either hmph!”😡
Yup
Out of every well-spoken comment, he chooses to respond to this in this manner lol
@@Jae_JETT tragic
@@SamitoFPShoney seek some help. Your takes are good, your mental state isn’t.
I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if thousands of ego's suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.
The issue with removing Widow’s one shot is they literally designed the whole character/kit around it. It’s why one of her voice lines is “one shot, one kill” if you remove her ability to one tap, you remove widowmaker. She is supposed to be slow, methodical, and get that one perfect shot. You could argue you can make her Q be a one shot, or an execute (if they are below a certain percentage it kills) but even then people are still going to complain that it’s too strong even if you have to land a precise hit.
I personally never had an issue with Widows, I usually am able to shut them down fairly easily with the right hero (I also enjoy hunting widows: but I know most players don’t, I’ve seen my team rage hard at enemy widows); but I do agree, the ability to one shot is very strong in a game where there is only 5 players on each team (which it wasn’t as noticeable in 6v6 cause more players, and two tanks so the off tank can go bully widow). I just don’t think Widow works well in 5v5. I do think it’s worth trying some of the changes proposed in the video.
Doomfist: “One punch is all I need”😔
It depends on the game, but once you are matched up against that one widow who can aim and is properly peeled by their support - the game is basically over unless you have your own Widow to contest her or dive her consistently. Its not just her one shot, just her existing makes the game unfun because she deny angles so well across the map u can't just run it down mid and not expect to get headshotted. Shes also oppressive because it forces the other team to dedicate cooldowns/resources to just get rid of her. It's a totally different plan of attack vs a team with Widow vs. without one (and i'm not talking about Diamond rank or lower)
@@fockythefrog8516 that is a valid point to bring up. I am only high masters, I tend to play characters that can flank and often I do duo with my brother who lives out of state. In a lot of cases, I do get killed trying to hound the widow, a lot of times I’m able to shut her down. But when solo it is a lot more difficult to do so. Especially since rando OW players tend to not be team players or are just highly toxic/prideful:
My primary point in the comment was Widow was designed to be in a format with more players, when having one shot potential wasn’t as devastating (though she was still heavily picked in higher play in OW1) and her whole kit/character is made around that. To remove it will remove her purpose and identity from the game, as showcased with Hanzo.
It will definitely take some experimenting to see how they can balance her without losing her hero identity, or if they can at all.
2 tanks and this wouldn't be a problem or add more obstructions to block line of sight...all the maps have way to much sight lines for widow and its unfair
Report every widow player is INSANE. Im normally with you but this is such a baby thing to do like come on people dont deserve to be reported for playing the game by its current rules
spends a long time saying things the audience wants to hear then sneak his own toxic agenda
Don’t care, make hanzo fun or give every hero the same treatment
They also nerfed the nano blade one shot combo as well with the health pool increase. So an ult combo can’t one shot but one bullet from widow can?
Sorry Sam but ur projecting on this one, Hanzo has so so so much more to his kit than the one shot. It is LITERALLY all widowmaker is. I agree they did Hanzo dirty but it’s not productive to drag other characters down because your mad
Play Hanzo. "Having so much more to his kit" is a crazy statement every person who ever touched Hanzo more than for an hour would laugh.
Completely agree. He has the platform to do this which is fine, but when you say things like report all widow players, that bad man ... thats very bad.
@@its-tinyavocado Storm arrow alone is HUNDREDS OF MILES better than venom mine or grapple.
@ecclecticsayonce5131 until you use it and now have to wait u til it gets back on the play again. You have to play way more conservative for less value, the one shot capabilities that you get aren't worth there weight. Most of the games I've been it's against cass,ashe,mei,venture on repeat, Juno isn't seeing much play time soguess what they have bap and oh illari. these characters are nit one shotable but I gotta switch now. It's a joke i put a few hundred hours Into hanzo it's only a matter if time until another character losses it's identity and tgen people will see how fucked it is to work hard on a character just for him to be thrown out like garage and people say its just a skill issue or you issue.
@@CrypticDabi Thats a hanzo issue. Not a Widow issue. But he is more then his one shot. Widow isnt thats the big difference. He has other options. She really doesn't because her Assault rifle is a joke.
Genuinely the ability she had during Mirrorwatch was actually pretty fun. She can't one shot but instead the damage ticks based off her headshot/charge rate. Giving a bit of time for a character to react but still its deadly to those who are mispositioned.
She IS very easy to counter - Sombra exists. Why her accuracy is higher than Hanzos? Because Hanzo encourages spam, you get rewarded for spamming chokes and getting those random headshots. She can be oppressive in high elos sure, but idk what we're talking here, you should be oppressive when you're good.
Alright if every highly skilled player/character was playing well then why can no other character hold a lobby hostage like she can?
@@syrxph3675 I'm pretty sure a good Tracer can do the same
Also, I don't want to debate that she's perfectly balanced, this whole game is balanced beyond horrible. As much as I hate Hanzo I do agree that he was done dirty and should keep his 1shot to contest Widowmaker and just to keep his identity.
Very easy to counter... in any lobby below gold. You do realise once the enemy team knows you are on Sombra then they will get hard peeled all game. You can win a 1v1 with Widow, however can you win while they are also being hard pocketed by a Illari pylon and Torb turret? No. And you should be oppressive when you are good? No???? You should be oppressive when you are in a lower rank than you should be. You shouldn't be oppressive in your rank. My man, just stop defending shitty dev decisions. You don't know where their dick has been.
@@ChrisClarion No character should be able to hold a lobby hostage. And you can at least duel tracer... ( Even thought she needs nerfs coz shes been meta since forever)
Hey, Blizzard employee here.... Sorry, my head hurts. They hit me on the forehead with a rubber hammer when I speak "out of line" and when I "don't keep the conversation going." I tried telling them Infocus better when I'm not multi-tasking socializing with my coding (because they demand much needed eye contact) and they just repeat the phrase "gold players make gold" as they hit my head with the rubber hammer.
The money's good, and we're always hiring, but man I don't think I can take it. I feel like I'm missing something but my head hurts too much to think.
I think she gets to keep the one shot, because Widow players dont consistenly hit crits until diamond/masters level. Bronze thru gold players had to deal with Hanzos, especially ones that abuse the mindless "w" of casual players.
This game is made for casuals.
Widow has the highest crit rate and crit damage then all heroes across all ranks this isnt a point. She hits more head-shots then hanzo and all other heroes.
Oh yes, fellow casual that enjoys widow, yeah, there so much of us, right? Never seen a casual ever complaining about widow, it's all these high rank youtubers and streamers, true, true.
this game should never be balanced around any elo lower than masters
Don’t balance for players who literally can’t shoot an unmoving target. Dumbest shit ever. What is the point of improvement if you just make it more accessible for the people who aren’t skilled. I hate the argument “what about low ranks” no why would you make it easier why remove the reward and incentive for getting better and noticing your getting better to make the character feel better for players who aren’t good mechanically. It makes those specific Heros TOXIC in high Ello and oppressive in low Ello prime example Moira Brig illari life weaver sym torb ect
@@Mr.BubblesPGL I agree, Blizzard doesn't. That's why Widow keeps the one shot. Look at every change ever made. Why is Genji always nerfed, because low elo players dont know how to handle a Genji. Low elo and casual players dont play the game of Overwatch, they play hero deathmatch with an objective in the way.
That's why the balance is always shit.
If the one shot stays it’s honestly simple, it needs to require a certain level of skill and/or risk. Nerf the grapple so she can’t easily escape. Nerf the gun charge rate so she has less kill opportunities in a given time, less opportunities requires higher accuracy to be effective. Give the gun a gleam or laser that gives away her position, gives more risk. Completely darken the edges of the screen to reduce peripheral vision and awareness while scoped. Adding recoil or unsteady aim unless standing still would also increase the skill requirement/risk. Any combination of these changes could work to make her one-shot at least feel fair and deserved.
Samito, i genuinely believe the only way we are going to see this game saved is if they completely wipe their entire team from the ground up and either somehow get the original dev teams back from ow1 or create a dev/balance team of a handful of creators like yourself who have a TON of experience playing and speculating how to get better in the game and make it better for everyone else.
dude are you crazy? the ow1 devs were even worse.
@@AegisEdge the balance up until goats was fine lol you must've been a later player
@@trevorbergstrom00you mean 2 years of dive being there and lots of people hating it up top, while the rest were forcing 5-dps+mercy comps?
@@YTHandlesWereAMistake bro. That meta was fine until the devs stopped doing their jobs and allowed it to STAGNATE just like they did when they said they were working on overwatch two for two fucking years and all we got was echo and DOUBLE SHIELD AS META the whole time. The problem is that the devs make a change and just don't react to it or completely misinterpret what is happening in the game. The devs are garbage from overwatch one but somehow better still than the ow 2 devs. Mauga is the shittiest designed character they have
@@trevorbergstrom00 im just saying they let the same happen with goats as prior to it, contrary to what your caveat timeframe suggests. Goats would be a fine for most players moment if it lasted a month, maybe 2.
I never did this before, but when mauga is meta I force myself to not even open the launcher because I hate their whole kit and the very ides of them.
11:03 BRO I THOUGHT IT JUST ME. I got suspended for chat abuse. When I asked blizzard why after a week they responded with. "heals?" "really" "moira can you swap" "this ashe threw my last game" "our kiri is throwing". I responded with what? They said that is harassment. Typing "heals?" is harassment. Spent hundreds if not close to a 1000$ on skins for this crap. They got some real issues at blizzard.
I have never been a fan of - and never will be a fan of nerfing characters into becoming unplayable. Playing a character shouldn't feel terrible. And I feel like if Widowmaker all of a sudden wasn't able to oneshot-headshot-kill squishy targets, she would be absolutely feel terrible to play.
Overwatch has always been about swapping heroes. That alone can often mean the win. So why wouldn't the solo tank go Winston and jump the Widow? Why wouldn't a DPS swap to Widowmaker and outsnipe the other Widow? Why wouldn't the DPS swap to a Genji and gank the Widow? Obviously, Widowmaker can escape the Winston or get help from her team. Obviously, not everyone plays Widow and can just outsnipe the other Widow. Obviously, Genji may be able to kill the Widow every now and then but he wouldn't be as big of a threat in the meantime. But that's all just Whataboutism.
In the end of the day, because Whataboutism doesn't allow you to counter a hero, you kill that hero. And by killing heroes you continue to reduce the hero pool in Overwatch slowly but surely. When they first nerfed Roadhogs hook into oblivion, I deinstalled Overwatch and never came back. That was before he even got the Pig Pen ability. I would hook opponents and shoot them and nothing would happen. It was absolutely miserable and the hero was unplayable. I didn't quit because I was a butthurt Roadhog onetrick. I quit based on principle due to the Overwatch developers clearly not knowing what they were doing.
Now if they made Widowmaker unplayable, the community would just focus on the next big thing that's hard to deal with in matches. Tracer is too slippery? Nerf her. Venture is immune too often? Nerf him. Ash does too much damage? Nerf her. Games aren't fun that way.
This is idiotic, if a hero design is terrible for everyone in the lobby then it's probably in the best interest for the game to not have them. If she has an illari pylon or a brig with her she is borderline unkillable without the other team swapping to full dive, no other hero in the game is that much of an oppressive threat
This is honestly a good point that it shows a problem with characters that have higher skill floor than others(maybe not so much venture but others).
I do find that players in ow2 on average aren’t nearly equipped to deal with characters like widowmaker due to the fact that either haven’t seen one even being a threat because the hands of the player behind it aren’t on par with someone that is good or they see more hanzos than anything else.
You can’t change these characters with just straight nerfs or you’ll have a hanzo situation and the identity of this character is completely destroyed(something we’re trying to prevent) but at the same time good widow players dominate lobbies so often that the only way to stop them is literally not let them play at all.
Worst part there is if they counter you with that same character there’s nothing you can do there. They’ve probably looked back at older footage of ye old overwatch 1 where those hitscans are more often praised for their skill and thought “THAT’S WHAT MOST PEOPLE WANT” which is undeniably true… if it was ow1 but it isn’t anymore.
Players on average would be hard pressed to find a good widow or anyone that takes quite a bit of knowledge that can deliver results.
Since it’s been seen that some people aren’t quite the brightest of the bunches.
If these balance changes are really catered to the casuals tell me where is there someone complaining about kiriko being weak or say hanzo being too oppressive? They do say they look at stats but what exact stats are they looking at? It couldn’t be match to match because they’ve would’ve seen how players play those heroes either badly of good.
In this format there is no answer in sight without doing the one thing we don’t want to do… kill there whole identity to the ground. However then players will just find someone else to complain about. It just won’t end until every single hero’s identity is just destroyed… but then it will still happen anyway. It’s a cycle that will never stop until something is done about the format.
@@Lúci-o-ohswhy not just get rid of pylon instead then? Widow is not a hard hero to deal with tf, what you said here just seems to be a problem with illari and not widow. There is also another option of just not peaking the widow
@@chance2326 no because those were just examples, while yes brig is overtuned and illari pylon is an awful design, that's a different problem NOT the problem. The problem is you need to go sombra to even get close to her on some maps without the risk of immediately one shot, the examples I said just completely shuts down sombra, therefore forcing multiple people to dive. Because she's like pylon, not optional to destroy which is terrible
@@chance2326 Ah yes the best way to deal with a hero is to just not engage at all. This would maybe okay in Siege or something but you have these dumb sniper line maps like Havana, Casino royale and Junkertown that basically mean you have to enter line of sight.
or you can play sombra i guess, another hero nobody likes
they should make the grappling hook only be able to connect to certain surfaces so she can’t just aim somewhere random and get out. she has to think about what ledge to aim to and if there will be another enemy there. her grappling hook is just to versatile. or have like a rainbow six siege grappling hook where you have to go up to the wall and shoot up a grapple so she can still get to high grounds easily, but can’t just get out of jail free.
I get where you’re coming from. I’m a Widowmaker main on DPS. But, I play every role and have peaked GM on every role. ( I know it’s console, but I hope you don’t judge that )
Removing Widowmakers one shot would gut the hero, she’d be unpickable. You said they did it to Hanzo; but I’d argue that because he is projectile and can spam a corner or choke, it is more annoying to get value from something that wasn’t even aimed at you. And those shots did happen often lets be real.
You mentioned Widowmaker takes skill, however in your streams I’ve heard more than once that you say she doesn’t take much skill and so on. In my opinion she is one of the most skilled DPS in the game. Besides Tracer and Genji.
You said they should remove her hook. That’d also ruin her character identity. She’s supposed to be a spider; her butt was even designed after it. And so is her hook ( her web ) - hook shots are also a skill shot
I understand you’re mad that Blizzard changed a hero you liked and has been unable to balance the game
Widowmaker takes skill because you don’t only need aim, you also need to deal with dive on a constant basis. Sombras virus got buffed, she deleted Widowmaker since like whatever. Your supports don’t always babysit widowmaker. DVA also deletes her.
She also is a good pick if the enemy got a hard pocket with Mercy. Ashe, Phara, Soldier and so on. You can say it’s a team game your tank can help you Blabla. But it doesn’t happen. This game is a team based game with anyone refusing to act like a team. You can’t put 5 randoms on a team and expect them to work together.
Removing a tank is the main issue let’s be real. Also tanks deciding every game. I can get 2-3 kills on Widowmaker every team fight and still lose bcs my tank can’t contest. And this happens OFTEN. Yet when I switch to a different DPS it becomes easier ( Ashe ) - way easier.
Removing her hook is not the way but I wouldn’t mind if they nerf it, longer cool-down. It’d also been cooler if instead of an SMG she had smth else. Poisoned Punches ( Meeles ) that do more damage. Would make the fight with dives more fair. Then she absolutely has to be scoped in and flick shot you to kill you, or if it isn’t fully charged finish you off with the poisoned punch.
This is my point of view.
Hi Luna, funny seeing you here. I would hope she keeps smg because it is useful for spychecking Sombras.
I was thinking about a rework for widow to make her more tolerable, make her base kit more offensive and closer range and move the one shot to the ultimate and make her have 6-8 shots or something like that, or just make the falloff range around 35-40m.
My issue with widow is that she is one of the only characters that will have free value because you have to respect the los and its almost impossible to kill her if she has semi competent supports near by
This is the issue with her all or nothing design. The best solution would be removing the character from the game or adding back a second tank.
stopped reading after console
@@whambulance8607 using your venom mine to lure her out is way better in my opinion. Predicting where she’s gonna go is fun haha also hi 🫶
Reporting ppl bc they play a certain character is really toxic
Daily dose of yapping and metal rank Hanzo mains not understanding why Widow‘s and Hanzo‘s oneshot shouldn‘t be treated the same
You’re right, it should get nerfed harder because it’s more oppressive
@@SamitoFPS what would the nerf look like in your opinion? What would Widow’s identity be without her oneshot?
@@AntivenomOWher identity should be a useless purple bitch that should never be good
I just got done playing, where every single game there was a widow. Every game she got the most kills, no matter where we were she killed us. At a few points she even pixel peaked us like she was in R6 Siege, it was incredibly unfun to play against.
I agree with some points made, but most of them ? Disagree. I admit , widow is in my top 5 most played, along with Ashe, Pharah, Echo. So maybe someone here will consider my opinion biased.
There were times were my team got their ass blasted by one widow ( most of those were Kings Row ) BUT that was on them for not playing cover. Remember its a TEAM BASED game. Whenever I play her it's very dependent on how my team uses the picks I've made and if my supports ignore my existence or acknowledge that I'm making plays.
A good, coordinated dive which only has to consist 2/5 or 3/5 - if I'm not getting hard pocketed ? I'm gone.
Not to mention the recent buff of Sombra. Sometimes I get her, but the virus dmg over time usually takes me out too.
The nerf on Hanzo was righteous. You say widowmaker has the highest mobility among the snipers ? Nope. I still consider Hanzo a sniper, even if his dmg was ( rightfully) nerfed. Her grapple is the ONLY escape tool she has and it's on a CD. Hanzo out here doing ninja stuff by climbing walls whenever he wants, his jump etc. Not to mention his ability to absolutely shred a tank to pieces. I don't mind dying to a cracked widow, because I know its my fault for not checking where she is and I'm aware that her aim has to be impeccable. What did frustrate me was watching a Hanzo logging me in my dome randomly when he clearly was aiming for someone else.
All in all - widowmaker is not the problem per se. It's the one picking the character that's going to be on full crack and a team peeling for her, while the other refuses to adjust and play together.
They should just change the scaling on her gun so that it takes longer to get to one shot charge whilst also making low charge shots do ok damage. That way she's worse than Ashe in consistency but has windows where she can one shot.
1 shots are supposed to be balanced around three things 1)Risk, 2) Resources, 3)Counterplay. The reason no one complains about rein pin being a one shot is because it is risky, takes around 12 seconds if you include travel time, and can be countered/avoided by so many abilities. Widows one shot does have the risk of standing still but there is almost no time investment nor counterplay. Also 'just don't peak' is awful counterplay since you have to peak to play the game.
Obviously your forgetting that low ranked Hanzo literally dominated the game way over Widow because Hanzo was way easier to play. On top of that “Widow has better escape options?” . . . How? In close range Widow had a predictable grapple and a weak automatic fire rifle. Hanzo can actually defend himself coupled with an amazing spacing ult. And of course could wall climb and jump
You just come off as a Hanzo glazer.
Yes, in terms of ESCAPE options, widow has him beat.
Grapple can disengage you from a dive with one use which is why in fighting close up she is weaker then hanzo. Hanzo’s 2ft leap + wall climb does not disengage you from a dive or reposition you completely.
Also low rank play shouldn’t be what the game is balanced around. like why should we balance around players that don’t even know how to strafe, walk in straight lines, don’t understand positioning, ability usage, aim. This dev team is cooked
Brother, current hanzo CANNOT defend himself. Many 1v1s are basically unwinnable now with the health changes (reaper,cass,venture, etc).
@@dylthegod9984 talking Historic Hanzo.
@@PunchM3 Because causals far outnumber high ranks
A lot of it is because players will immediately rage/complain like they always do when they change popular characters, Blizzard hesitates because they know people will get mad. Anything different from what they know/like/exploit is bad and needs to stay the same. Sombra is a character that is really bad right now but she just got a buff, Widow is just another popular character that they are afraid will cause trouble if they change.
I don't think that's actually true, I kinda get what you're saying but consider characters like Mercy, Genji or Hanzo. All three of them are just as popular as Widow and Sombra and yet they're all not in a good spot balance wise as of yet.
I feel like samito played against a really good widow and was like “omg they have good aim its not fair” widow is like zen, a glass cannon. Easy to get value on if your aim is good but very weak to being dove
Widow is oppressive if you have decent aim having to stay behind a corner is the most unfun gameplay ever one peak and you’re dead in one shot and she only takes mechanical skill
Retard take ngl, widow can play damn near in spawn where no one can contest her, dive characters often cannot reach the widow
@@savage3PC yea id have to disagree with you, the most unfun gameplay is playing against a sombra, you either get spawn trapped as support or you get virused and shot twice while fighting a tank, sombra did not need a buff to get impact on virus because that takes away the skill of hitting the virus and then being good enough to follow up with accurate shots. Widow is solely aim based and positioning which if you arent a new player then you will instantly know which spots the widow will take, id rather play with or against a widow all day everyday then a cheesy invis rat
No, sam played against a good Widow who he couldn't beat as Venture/Hanzo and then got upset. Playing projectile into Hitscan lol ..
@@Jae_JETT he got upset because 90% of the roster can’t do anything against widow either you go full dive, sombra, or widow diff them
You said it brother. The supports make the counter dive a very difficult trade. It’s not good game design if to counter you have to mirror
Can you and other creators just shut up at this point. Everthing you guys say gets heard by Blizzard and turned into exactly what we dont want, and hurts the game and community. "Healers have to much power" = turns all CD's on healers into 16+ secs for better kill potential...., "Dps isnt doing anytrhing it feels bad to play the passive is pointless for half the roster "= Changes DPS passive to stop healing from being effective, turning DPS heroes into Melt city. " Tank sucks to play I just get melted by the DPS passive" = Buffs all Tanks to be Godzilla to survive through DPS passive changes and hitbox changes. If you dont like the balance, just silently move on, stop playing. So far, Since OW2 launch, nothing good has come of balance, except for the fact that the game does get balanced regularly unlike OW1. Just go play something else and stop complaining about OW.
whats even worse about these videos that you make, is that you are nasty, rude, and toxic about a game, but you also fucking stream said game for what 8+ hours a day. take a vacation brother
They dont understand the power and following that they really have.
If you don’t like the balance just quit and move on instead of having a discussion about it to determine how we change or improve things going forward? Lmao what. Discussions have to be had its not all sunshine and rainbows lol
Most content creators are right on certain balancing takes but blizzard is so shit at executing the changes
@@tiam9465 Since when has Sam done that in months or longer....He is rude, nasty, and toxic towards devs. he doesnt have discussions he fucking whines and complains on YT and his streams until he is blue in the face. Literally fucking screaming for 6v6 for a year or more. If you dont like the game or its balance or the "direction of", STOP. Go play something else other shit exist. Screaming for devs to change the game you didnt make in a way that they dont want is kinda fucking insane, talk about first world problems. its been a year or more of non stop Sam screaming for 6v6 and its fucking old. Just move on, come back later. and specifically for Sam Grow TF up