PMM: Russia's Modernized Makarov (Now With 50% More Mag Capacity!)
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- Опубліковано 15 гру 2023
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EDIT TO ADD: I didn't realize the heavy-slide model was actually put into production - my mistake! I will film one of those when I am able to find one - until then, the civilian model in this video does correctly show the changes to the frame and magazine of the PMM.
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Having served as the standard Soviet military sidearm for several decades, the PM Makarov was getting a bit obsolescent by the late 1980s. More of the world was using locked breech, 9x19mm service pistols but the Soviet Union still had essentially a domestic version of the Walther PP. To extend its capabilities, the PMM (modernized Makarov pistol) was developed, and adopted in 1990.
The new design used a double-stack magazines for a capacity of 12 round instead of the original 8. The slide remained identical, and the new magazine used a double stack body that narrowed to a single stack tower for the top three rounds. This allowed the slide and feeding geometry to remain identical, significantly simplifying the design process for the pistol. A new plastic grip was designed to fit the larger frame, and while wider and bulkier, it is arguably a better fit in the hand than the original Makarov.
Secondly, a new cartridge was developed to bring the Makarov up to 9x19mm ballistics. The case remained unchanged, but a larger powder charge gave it aa roughly 30% increase in velocity (from about 1060 fps to 1360fps). This was made possible mechanically by adding three spiral grooves to the chamber to increase friction on the cartridge case, and slow down the opening of the slide. However, this round was never fully adopted because there was nothing to prevent it form being fired in regular Makarovs, with unpleasant results. Thus the grooved chamber design as also dropped from PMM production.
The example I have on camera today is a Baikal IJ-70-17AH; this is the commercial export version of the PMM, chambered for .380 ACP (commercial exports in 9x18 were also made). In addition to the different caliber it uses an adjustable rear sight, which was added to make the gun compliant with import regulations and is not present on the military PMM.
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Now looking forward for an episode on the PB, aka the Sneakarov.
"sneakarov" time to call pb just that
Imagine being designed to be used in the most secret covert operations the USSR could ever dare to conduct, but you end up as the tool to deliver death penalties in Belarus.
That’s the story of the PB.
From what I heard, the PB had a few issues
Советский ПБ самостоятельная конструкция...там от ,макарова, только магазин,спусковой механизм...и все!!!Этот пистолет никогда не продавался на экспорт...и даже дружественным странам!
@@british35Неправильно ,слышали,...никаких проблем небыло...было выпущено более 30.000 штук...плохую вещь в таких количествах не сделали бы😉...Используется до сих пор...из - за распространеного и недорогого боеприпаса.А разбирается даже проще ,макарова,...если посмотрите видео..😊
I wonder how this compares to a CZ 82...
Also: "not great, not terrible" seems to be almost a Soviet way of life at this point.
It is literally the soviet’s doctrine, as long as the logistic is as simple as possible
It's an old soviet tradition to sell a good pieces for export and left a crap one inside "for people"😅
@@stanislavkrasovskyi7903Weren’t their export stuffs pretty much downgraded versions just like how everyone do things? I doubt stuffs they gave to Syria or Iraq were as good as ones they operated themselves.
@@stanislavkrasovskyi7903opposite my friend.
Exports are always stripped down versions of the domestic, but they show off the domestic to sell export versions
@@yosawin3018Pretty much, if i recall the export MiG-23s are downgraded
One of the common mods that was done on a Makarov in the US was to put a key chain loop through the magazine catch at the bottom of the grip. This would let you grab the magazine release with one finger and strip the mag out with the others. If you run across a Makarov like this you now know what the loop was for.
@@rimanahbvee the late 80s and entirety of the 90s were a silly time filled with silly people.
@@lordsheogorath3377 Nothing has changed since then.
@@lordsheogorath3377 It's not silly if it works. The heel magazine catch is the Makarov's biggest flaw by far, and anything that makes it less of a pain in the ass is a Good Thing(tm)
@@XH1927 no it's still silly because they are trying to run a tactical Makarov in the 90s lol. 100% it was pioneered by Spetsnaz fanboys, one of the pillars of the post-Soviet American range culture.
@@lordsheogorath3377 I'm honestly mad at russia for demolishing the mystique about their military. Who will all those goobers emulate now?
The swelled magazine idea also means they don't need to redo all of the trigger stuff. They added more capacity with the least possible changes to all of the peripheral stuff.
That is a very clever magazine design, I'm impressed by the engineering.
It looks a lot like the HK M7M13, which came 1st?
@@briansmithwinswhat is hjk m7m13? And what's relation of HJK to IžMeh?
@@worldoftancraft tried to type HK, I think it predates the 12 round Makarov
Hipoint actually did the same thing with the Yeet Cannon
A bunch of companies did the same thing with their double-stack 1911, although the differences aren't as dramatic as the PMM magazine. It's more apparent on subcompact 9mm pocket pistols that were made double stack, like the LCP Max.
The Soviets seem to have been fond of that "let's just stuff more powder into an existing cartridge, so that people have the best odds of sticking it into old guns chambered for the original and blowing them up" thing. They did the same with 7.63 Mauser -> 7.62 Tokarev.
Gives me cheap brass to use, works for me man
300 Blackout. Everybody does it
@@7thboss931300 blackout is at least visually distinctive. You can usually tell at a glance.
@@Laz7481you could spot 300 blk from a distance simply because it roughly 7.62 shape but brass.
Now THAT is a Makarov.
New Makarov, now with 50% more Makarov!
I have always loved the way the 1968 GCA tried to outlaw imported small pistols, and how the ATF decided to regulate that.
The thumb rests on the grips and the adjustable sights make this PMM give it enough points on the ATF import worksheet to be legally defined in the US as a "sporting" pistol, because those are "target pistol" features ATF chose to put on the list 50 years ago.
Just goes to show how arbitrary and stupid those laws sre
Yup. When I bought my Bulgarian Makarov, it came with the "sporting" grip attached and the military grip in the box. Naturally I swapped out the grips ASAP.
Dang. I saw one of these at a local shop maybe a decade ago. It was at a reasonable price, but since I was only interested in military Maks I didn't give it serious thought. I had no idea they were that special.
I don’t regret not picking the one up for $145. They’re all cast and Bulgarian maks are worth buying for $500.
Yeah they are cool as a collectible, but the old real military maks are definitely better guns.
As a pmm owner, I definitely lust after the astetics of the old milsurp mask.
They are not cast.
@@Chiefshadow4I believe the frame on these particular ones are, I own one that has distinct lines from the molding process that were not buffed out or cleaned up before coating the frame. 🤷♂️ also, no apparent milling marks to be found on the frame, unlike the rest of the components
I have a Makarov with adjustable sights, but single stack mag. It's in decent shape. I have no idea if it's rare or not, or desirable or not. But I like it, and it's one of my favorite pistols to shoot, even though I have a pretty large collection with some "rare" firearms like a Coonan.
If it, like the one displayed, is Russian-made, then it is collectable simply for rarity. If it was made in the Soviet Union, then it is a Cold War collectible.
I have yet to see any patterns of 9x18mak that don't increase in value due to being a "collectible". I have the IJ70 and a FEG Hungarian mak. Both have doubled in value since I got them. Just the mags of the FEG are selling for nearly $50 now.
Does it perhaps say "Baikal" on the side? If so, that makes sense.
@@life_of_riley88 I'll have to check.
I have a IJ70 - 18A with a single stack mag. Made in Russia. Bought it in the 90's.
This was the first handgun I ever purchased, for ~$220 in 2005ish. Was a bit myeh about the lesser stopping power of . 380 vs 9mak at the time, but it kinda turned out to be a blessing since it's easy to find quality modern bonded self defense ammo in . 380, unlike 9mak. Has never once malfunctioned despite having never been cleaned. 😁
You should probably clean her lol
I’ve had a soft spot for the Makarov pistol as the c02 air pistol version (Baikal MP654k) was one of the first air pistols I owned as a youngster here in the UK. The early models used the frame, slide and a lot of her components from the origional PMM as the wider grips can accomodate a C02 capsule better, it was rock solid if not the most reliable as mine leaked c02 a lot. I would say it was that little gun that got me interested in classic firearms and russian guns in particular!
Got one myself , you can tell they are made from a lot of the real parts , they are a lot sturdier than other modern air pistols the trigger is quite heavy in double action , its probably exactly the same feel as the 9mm one
Bought a real 2012 edition one. The one with the real bakelite grips and original internals, including the recoil spring. Real mags go in, no problem.@@johngreen-sk4yk
The Soviets had a weird history of building and producing weapons designed for more powerful cartridges that then never got used. For tank needs, there's the 76mm F-22, which was designed around a high-power AA gun cartridge, but then ended up using the same medium-velocity 76mm cartridge as the T-34. The metal was all still there though, so the Germans were able to capture a few and successfully re-bore them for the fairly hot 75mm cartridge used in the PAK 40.
This is a video id been waiting for for since i started watching back in 2014. Very happy to see you finally covering this beautiful pistol, please keep doing amazing content!!
If I remember correctly the Izh-70 in the short 9x17 was intended for the private security businesses that proliferated through the nineties.
Interestingly, the double stack 1911 frames are also similar in that they try to be as minimally disruptive as possible with the original design as well, to the point where I’d say 80%-90% of all standard (single stack) 1911 parts are compatible, including the entire upper portion (slide, barrel, recoil spring, slide stop, etc.)
The single stack “tower” on that double stack Makarov is a bit extreme and seems like it loses a few potential rounds of capacity, though. Double stack 1911 mags taper more like modern double stack/single feed magazines towards the top, so capacity is similar to other modern double stacks. That makes me think the ability to use single stack magazines was deliberate since otherwise, you could redesign the frame and magazine to taper much later and get a lot more rounds. Double stack 1911s can’t use single stack 1911 magazines due to the frame design, for example.
I love my PMM. I bought it way back when in the 80's. Thank you for the Hack on being able to use the Std Makarov Mags I only have 2 of the dbl stack.
I had to pay $100 each for a pair of the mags.
These are not PMM's, but instead are commercial sporterized PM's with a PMM-type doublestack frame. And there's no way you acquired one in the 1980s as neither went into production until the early/mid-90's. No true PMM's were ever imported into the US
My wife used to have an IJ-70 17a imported by B West, i still regret that she sold it. It was a fun pistol.
We making it out of Cordon with this one 💯👌🔫
#cheeki #breeki
With all due respect, your info is way off here. That is not at all a PMM. The commercial/export Baikal IJ70-18AH/17AH are essentially a sporterized PM (adjustable rear sights) with a PMM-type doublestack frame. True Military PMM's (That were adopted around 1993/94) did indeed originallly have the special grooved chamber to shoot both standard (57-N-181S) & special high velocity +P (SP7, 7N16, Etc) , but then also had a highly reinforced tank-like angular slide to handle the extra pressure. This design of the PMM and special +P ammo was indeed issued, but eventually they changed the PMM's design somewhere in the early 2010's and phased out the special +P ammo (for the reasons you had mentioned). They then went to using a normal chamber/barrel, and slightly less reinforced slide that is still different than that of the one used on a standard PM. They still produce both the PM & PMM in small made-for-order numbers til' this day.
Name checks out.
Used to have one in .380acp. The grip looks nice, but makes the gun super uncomfortable to shoot. When I changed them out to regular mak style grips, it was super nice.
The regular PM grips should be too narrow to fit here, how did you change them?
@@JD-rt5sd someone makes them.
@@JD-rt5sd There is a wider grips in style of original Makarov grips, for more wide frame. Notably air gun version MP-654K have it, because it have wide frame.
@@user-di7ds5nk3o yeah, I actually replaced my standard brown plastic grips with the ones you speak about on one of my 654k. But they have nothing in common with real PM grips, except for the looks. They are made of three pieces glued together, instead of one solid chunk of Bakelite, and they don’t have steel reinforcements inside, like real PM grips do. They do the job for a BB gun, but I don’t know if they are sturdy enough for a firearm.
WHOA, swapping hands, that's some pretty slick shooting.
As Brandon Herrera said: "THICC Makarov."
My dad had a silver single stack .380 imported by b-west. I highly recommend the pm-g grip, the thumb mag realese works peferctly and gives a much more comfortable grip. Thanks for making this video.
10:25 Jesus Christ, that joke. Dark.
Dark humor is like food under Stalin. Not everyone gets it.
@@ForgottenWeapons my sides. Never change, Ian (or whoever manages his comments)
**EDIT; Forgotten Weapons team, just wanted to say your reply made my day.
Greetings from Minnesota. Keeping doing God's work, Gun Jesus.
Another interesting and informative video as always.
Ayyyyy my man pmm, good to see you here
Interesting in that, as a carry piece, you could keep it loaded with a double stack mag, and have a nice slim, spare single stack tucked away for those just in case reloads.
I think you should do a video on the FEG PA-63. Since you are doing these Makarov style pistols. The PA 63 was so interesting to me as it was essentially a Walther PP. Would really like to hear about the history of FEG and the development of the PA 63
Wow!! That magazine is very neat. I was wondering how they would utilize a single and double stack follower in the same magazine. Very neat to be able to use the old single stack magazines in it as well.
Another amazing video, I love the history and seeing how it preformed at the BUG match.
Thank you for taking apart the magazine to show how those extra rounds were fit into the same size body and how the feed spring worked to facilitate that. You're only the second person I've seen do that.
I checked out the MP 443 Grach, in a nutshell, it was designed by Vladimir Alexandovich Yargin under the designation Gratch.
Trials began in 1993, in 2003, it was adopted by all branches of military and law enforcement.
The pistol is all carbon steel with a stainless barrel with the front sight cast into the slide with a drift-ajustable rear. The pistol uses a standard double action, short recoil and is chambered for 9x19 7N21, the Russian loading for NATO's 9x19 and will chamber 9x19 fed from a double stack 17 round magazine with a dual-feed spring.
More than 250,000 were built as of March 2023.
The lack of the red star Bakelite guard is a huge negative for me. I very specifically made sure mine had one before looking around.
Thanks for the video! It was gravy for any mil-surp fan. As a Makarov "collector" (had all the major pistols chambered for 9x18 at one time) I was surprised to learn a few new things in this episode. That double-follower is genius! As for the adjustable rear sights, it's my understanding that was an import requirement. The Imez & Baikal just tacked it on to meet the regulations for the U.S. market. The Baikal IJ-70 sights are garbage, super loose. There is an aftermarket, fixed-sight replacement however. Also a fun fact: Umarex makes a very realistic semi-auto CO2 BB version of the PM, great for practicing drills in your basement or backyard.
I thought this was just S.T.A.L.K.E.R. changing the name of the PM for legal reasons...
Technically they were, the last letter letter "m" is not capitalized in the game.
It stands for "modernized" or improved.
@@Karv3r this plus the model in game is standard PM, stat-wise too (8-round mag)
In any case, you should know that no Soviet-era gear is ever under legal protections IP or trademark-wise. A country that no longer exists can't sue, and they never believed in IP or trademarks anyways.
Kalashnikov Concern (the private successor to Izhmash and the current producer of Kalashnikov-family firearms, which has absolutely nothing to do with Mikhail himself) tried to start cracking down on IPs and trademarks worldwide, but it never gained traction and they gave up. You can now freely use post-1991 names with no consequence - AK-105, AK-12, whatever.
Still don’t understand why they changed the name in the first place, it’s not like “PM” is a bloody trademark.
I have a IJ70-18A Mak. Single stack mag. Still looks like it just came out of the box. I love the gun. It's not a Porche but it will get you to your destination.
Thank you, that was really interesting.
I’m in the UK and bought a Makarov way back in 2000. Its a toy compared to the model reviewed, being a CO2 BB version. However as I understand it, these models were produced in the same factory as the cartridge models and externally looks identical. It’s not terribly accurate but it’s a bit of fun. I generally don’t like BB’s, this being the only one I have.
Fascinating to see your excellent review of the real thing 👍
The magazine design reminds me of what Hi-Point did with their new double-stack "Yeet Cannon" pistols: basically, they kept the feed system the same and made a double-stack mag that necks down into a single-stack design that emulates the original single-stack mags used in the old C9 pistols.
The quality of a soviet era gun is better than the post collapse commercial export gun is something I never thought I'd hear.
post collapse russia became basically a third world country ran by gangs and criminals, so it's not surprising
I have great respect for Ian's expertise, but I believe this is just an urban legend. I have had an IJ 70 and Bulgarian military, which people tell me was virtually identical to the Russkie military. I can't find any quality difference between them.
People salivate over Russian guns for some reason, but the machining & build quality is not all that great. I've sold hundreds of new Russian guns in the shop over the past 30 yrs. Never was all that impressed. Saiga's & Veprs with canted sights as if they were made in Romania. 😊
@@donwyoming1936 for some reason most of commercial made guns in Russia are "meh tier". They are really cheap in Russia and that's what you get for your money
@@donwyoming1936 Yeah, that's exactly my point. The soviets couldn't build a decent toothbrush or an adequate razer, so to say the quality of commercial produced stuff going down is something I never thought I'd say.
Seems that these team ups are growing in number.
I love your KZS-1 and 90's panama. I have a bale of the KZS in storage still.
You might be down on points for missing the bullseye, but the guy is down, so its good enough for a military issue handgun.
I can't help thinking this uniform with these set and lighting makes it look like one of those POW interviews
I wonder if you could get your hands on a P-M02, Bulgarian arsenal successor to the Makarov (P-M01/PMM). It would an interesting addition to your collection
The main thing that almost no institution updated PM to PMM. In Russia they rather updated to Yarygin (aka Grach MP-443) if on scale and any modern pistol e.g. Glock if it is a special force or agency(there was a famous scandal where one federal security serveces bought Glocks so expencive because of corruption so they called them golden glocks) in the Ukraine they rather updated to Fort (now there are all possible models in circulation). In Belarus if there were updates e.g. in KGB or special forces there were glocks, USPs, Berettas ans SigSauers. In Georgia, Lativa, Lithuania, Estonia old sovjet pistols also were replaced with something significanly more modern than PMM.
Conclusion: this update was too late, in contrast to PM, PMM is a real forgotten weapon.
Some corrupt officials in Russia actually have golden Glocks.
Man Ian be doing the work early on a weekend!
He is at breakfast out there. Timed release my brother.
it bacame even more perfect
The groove delay makes me think of the ring delay system on the Seecamp, interesting
My Mak came with the 8 round mags, and I quikly got a couple of 10 round extentions. Never have had a problem with it.
The 9mm makarov versions shoot real soft, can basically stack rounds on target. The .380 version of this pistol have a bit more kick, but they are also great.
The plastic drums ringing as you shot next to them is kinda funny.
I give you all the props for shooting both left and right handed (with pistols), while being left handed. Weirdly enough I’m right handed and shoot pistols that way, but I can’t shoot rifles right handed. Strange I know. However, I could awkwardly shoot rifles right handed better than I could shoot pistols left handed. Much respect for being a true lefty (conservative gun owner) but being able to shoot a pistol in your non-dominant hand WAY better than I could shoot a rifle right handed which is MUCH harder. Plus your videos rock! I watch them and you answer questions about certain guns I’m interested in that I wouldn’t think to ask! God bless!
Always wondered how that mag worked that's really neat
The idea of some grooves in the chamber is the same approach as Mann Feuerwaffen und Feinmaschinen had, as I remember. But they wanted to manage a .22 cartridge.
I got an IJ70-18AH original 9mm makarov chamber, adn love this little pistol. Mags were hard to come by but i was able to score 4-12rd mags. They weren't cheap either ($100-120) per mag.
That magazine is the same concept as the Sig 365 and all the wonder "stack and a half" mags these days. Nothing is new!
Russian pistol with a “Russian Doll” magazine spring mechanism
"Patron" ("round") + "matryoshka" ("nesting doll") = "Patryoshka"
That works.
As I mentioned under your other Makarov video, I served as a city police officer in the US and qualified with my Makarov and carried it as my officially recognized back up and off duty pistol. Am wondering if any other Western police officers have carried a Makarov or am I alone?
Maybe, maybe not. But the Makarov is very similar to the Walther PP/PPK, which were police pistols in Germany. So it's not surprising that you essentially selected the Soviet copy as a backup. Working armed security, I chose an 1911 as my duty gun. But I had an extended magazine for it, as well as standard capacity mags in my duty belt.
That’s a really odd choice, considering the abundance of better weapons in the US, both domestically manufactured and imported. Why did you go for PM, specifically?
@JD-rt5sd "better" is relative! I had it for several reasons:
1) I had purchased it years earlier in the late 1990s for very little, I think about $150 if I remember correctly.
2) When I became a police officer I only owned 2 pistols (and could afford no more)-- the Makarov and a 1944 Walther P-38. Since having to end the life of a suspect w a pistol with Waffenampts all over it would have generated all kinds of issues, the choice was clear.
3) I am only 5'6" and at the time was a rail thin 160 lbs. My issued Glock was WAY too huge to conceal, while the Mak was perfectly sized. I could easily wear it even to the beach.
4) I am very, very good w my Mak, am very fast and accurate w it. And as I said, passed the required police course w it.
So, why not?
@@historyandhorseplaying7374 Well, I thought it’s still kind of a bulky and heavy pistol, considering it’s magazine capacity and stopping power. If I had a choice, I’d probably conceal carry some modern compact 1911, over the PM. But if it serves you well and you’re good with it, then why not, indeed. Although having to shoot a suspect with a pistol with red stars on the handle could possibly generate similar issues as the one with Waffenamt stamps.
@JD-rt5sd well for me bulky is better because it reduces recoil to nill-- the heavier the slide and barrel, the less the recoil. I don't like light guns. And it's very well balanced. As for the red stars, unfortunately people have no idea what it means, that history isn't being taught in schools. And my city was very Leftist anyway, they probably like it.
And to think that magazine concept is all the rage today
Does anybody 3D-print the plastic followers? I think that would be a good way to implement additive manufacturing. Another thing that could be 3D printed would be some kind of spacer to stop the side to side wobble of single stack magazines.
Love it. Love the Mak.
I had never known the Makarov was designated IJ70 that just blew my mind. I had been wondering this whole time why it's called the IJ70 in dayz guess they hit it right on the money
Russian firearm laws make it necessary to differentiate between military and civilian models, and usually export as well. So "PM" is only ever a military model.
@@DawidKov Just like in the US
Holy crap, finally the PMM gets an Ian McCollum video....
cries once discovering that it's just the civillian variant
Gun Jesus does what Gun Jesus dignifies with a video
And here I thought the Ruger LCP Max variation on the LCP was a modern, new concept.
Ruger LCP MAX has a similar double stack magazine necked down to a single stack.
6:56 It was on purpose because there were much surplus Makarov Soviet era mags and quite a low volume of modernized 12-round magazines at this time till now.
I can’t help feeling it would be simple to have a 3D printed adaptor to hold the 8rnd mag’ more securely.
A bit of trivia - the Baikal MP-654K was a C02 air pistol built using the PMM frame and slide.
It was at first.
First versions, super-early ones, which are practically impossible to come by, were made from scrapped PMMs, , but shortly, REALLY shortly after Baikal started making them on their own. They casted bolts instead of smithing and milling like military ones.
I mean, they started manufacturing them in 1997, I've got a 2001 one, the earliest I could find, already casted bolt. Later I've seen even earlier ones for sale, I believe 1999, but still casted bolt. MPs with PMM bolt are like Bigfoot, you may spend your whole life chasing them.
But I was surprised by the fact, that frames on real ones were also casted and got those ugly notches on front side of grip. And I've even got the same grip, which I also thought belonged only to CO2 versions.
But before 2013 they sometimes made special series MP-654K, made from real Maks, they even had thin grip. And Mak bolts are quite close to military PMM bolts, so with a few twigs you may get a CO2 pistol which looks like a real PMM.
@@Sych_Hyich Yep, I own one, bought it just a few days ago. Set me back some 400 euros. They are known as the "32nd" series and are, in fact, quite difficult to come across, even in Russia. It is said that these feature parts from decommissioned Makarovs, although I'm more inclined to believe that they simply had plenty of spare parts in storage. Mine was made in 2012, intended for the export market, came with original bakelite grips, recoil spring. The slide has traces of milling and the spring retainer has a rectangular, clamp style as seen in Soviet production Makarovs. Additionally, it does feature a cut-out for the ejection port.
In general, these were made between 2012 and 2013, while around 2019, they restarted production and renamed them to "32-1". Unfortunately, having owned one, they are by no means a step-up in terms of quality. They do retain the same frame/slide style (including the cut-out for the ejection port), but everything is entirely casted and no milling marks can be seen inside the slide and the frame as a whole. Additionally, you can tell that these have far fewer genuine Makarov parts -- the rectangular spring retainer is swamped for a rather shoddily made round-shaped retainer. The internal mechanism, however, is something of a hodgepodge between original and new parts, as judged from some parts having been subjected to heat treatment (i.e., the iconic red tint on the hammer, safety latch, trigger bar/disconnector, sear) and some having been simply blued. They also come in 1980s and later safety latches, 1990s slide catches, whereas the 2012 make would usually keep the original safety latch and slide catch. Even the tolerances are off -- when the slide is racked back, you can see gaps through where the frame and slide meet, whereas the same isn't present on the 2012 make. Additionally, the original, thick grip screw is swamped for a really thin one. Even something as simple as the recoil spring is swamped for a new production one, introduced in the earliest iterations of the PMM lookalike 654k in the late 90s/early 2000s -- it being quite a bit shorter than an original spring.
The only similarity that they do have is the rather ugly sandblasted finish, present on all iterations of the 654k, which can be removed with some low grit sandpaper and reblued afterwards. The factory bluing itself is also quite a bit darker and less reflective than what we tend to see with old Makarovs.
Personally, at least speaking for the 32/32-1, they do accept original parts. I replaced my safety latch with an East German one, including the hammer and the grips. Without much difficulty, it looks indistinguishable from an East German makarov except for the lack of markings.
@ yep, correct, absolutely.
But series 32 ones are not so rare, I can tell you. Yes, they are not very widespread, but in Russia you can come across them, if you search.
And 400 euros... Damn... I mean, here in Russia we have them at about 2,5 times cheaper. Never seen one more expensive than 20k rubles, which is 204 euros right now.
Usually they go at about 16-18k.
32-1 is 12k brand new.
I got my MP from 2001 for 6,5k last year but it's "no-chin", which is a term for mp-654k especially, and has, since it's an early version, all markings on the side of bolt, which pretty much ruins the look. The term above is related to the very end of the bolt, right under the barrel. Some of them look exactly as Maks, some are lightly grinded, so their "chin" is rounded, and some have none at all, giving it more of Walther PPK style.
Mine is slightly grinded, but to be honest, I just love this look.
I'm also quite a fan of its trigger guard, which is bulkier and its stamped slide catch. Real round ones just don't work for me....
About red tinted parts, well, I've got quite a bunch of them in mine and they are desired by the fanbase but as I've heard, it's basically a tinting defect, but it's rarer so it's considered cool. I don't find it interesting also.
And also pardon me my misuse of the word "bolt" instead of "slide" previously. I've just googled, how slide catch is named in English and figured my mistake out.
I mean, we use word затвор both for slide and bolt
@@Sych_Hyich Awesome comment. Admittedly, 654Ks of all types are rare in Europe. As I'm from Lithuania, even here, all of them (654k-22s up to 32-1) are and have been out of stock for close to two years. I can imagine why. Elsewhere in Europe, especially Germany, they usually auction them off. 400 euros being the average price even for the more common 654k variants. Similar trends can be seen with Yunker air rifles, all of them are close to or over 1000 euros. If one wants to make good money on the side, he can buy up 654Ks in Eastern Europe and sell them off to westerners. Poles in particular sell a lot of 32-1s that they still have in stock. One may buy one for about 200 euros on Allegro, which is where I got mine.
Let's use the Russian term that we are both familiar with, boroda. I do like the beard profile as seen on the original makarov, and so the limited-run 32 series scratches that itch of mine. The grips on the 32-1, especially the brown ones (whereas the black ones are somewhat better looking), look really cheap and reflective. But that's understandable, as they mass produce these even for the Makarych and others. Just in general, I wish they had stuck with the worksmanship standards of the past, by at least including an original spring or doing away with the ugly sandblasting.
Here's one funny thing I did notice when removing the sandblasting on the 32-1, although this is purely anecdotal. I found out that underneath it, the metal had plenty of deep indentations and irregularities, almost as if the frame was manufactured in a very cheap and half-assed manner and they wanted to hide it with a coat of sandblasting. I could be completely wrong, but maybe there's a kernel of truth in it. After I blued it, it became far less noticeable. I made a similar mistake, it does seem like the internals in the slide are still considered to be part of the zatvor.
@ sounds somewhat surreal for me, that they auction them off, but I understand it, yep.
I guess, it just gets its recognition for its proximity to the real ones.
In Russia there is literally no citizen market for pistols, it's prohibited by law, pistols are only for the military, police and government, but we have an unbelievable market of blank PMs. You want it? You get it if you have money. 450 to 600 euros, depending on condition, year of manufacturing and severity of deactivation. Euro is now approximately 100 rubles.
A year ago regular price was 30-35k rubles, which was about 250-300 euros. But this spring we had a new law, in accordance to which you have to notify Rosgvardia (kind of more elite police) if you buy or sell a blank firearm. I see the reason, but I grieve because of missed opportunity to have one, since there were no regulations of blank firearms market. I mean, I still can freely buy it, but I simply don't want Comrade Big Brother to get involved in my life. It's not like I want to use it for criminal purposes, but I just simply don't want the police to know I have a potential, since they simply can fake whatever they want if they need. So 654s are getting more popular, since they are quite "just like real", but are much cheaper and need no law involvement. And I guess, they and mp-371 are becoming more of an option for criminals. I guess, I don't need to explain why.
About the boroda... Well, it's just purely esthetical question and I fully understand your interest to it.
But I shit you not, I've just checked some of social media groups, where people sell new and used airguns and blank guns (apparently, most part of which are 654s, 371s and blank PMs) and I've seen not one, but TWO 654s of year 1999 which were made from real slides but did not have boroda. I know that it was Baikals tendency back then and that they've started making boroda later, but I can imagine, how blasphemous it looks for most of the people. I don't know if you can or want check this out, but in case you can, here's the link to one of them vk .com/ wall -222779890_686
Edit: giving it a second look, I've seen casting marks inside of its slide. But it also has cutout for extractor and milling is also quite visible. So maybe it's from Makarych or something like it. But it surely had boroda before it was converted into MP
And about brown grips.. They look cheap and crappy, because they are in fact extremely cheap and crappy.
They are notorious for being fragile and crumbling over time. I guess this problem is somehow relative to the brown LEGO bricks problem.
Real ones nowadays (at least from what I've seen hanging from policemen belts) tend to have black handles, so you can consider black ones more close to moders. Back in the days they were bakelite, which is more reddish and often has stains. But, if I recall correctly, they never were of such chocolate brown color.
And you are most likely are correct about sandblasting being used just for hiding imperfections in casting.
I say this, because I've heard it from people, who tried to give it a more authentic or generally more appealing look by re-blackening it. Turns out, frames have quite a tendency to have huge color defects and unevenness thanks to the quality and structure of metal.
But it's obvious what's behind it: those are just pneumatic, so why bother, even plastic will work.
A company was importing these into Canada through Baikal for a while. I wanted one but spare magazines seemed impossible to find.
4:08 fun fact: the РСт (RSt) mandatory certification logo can be found on a whole bunch of consumer goods of the era. Quite amusing (but reasonable if you think of it) to see it on a handgun, tbh.
Not a proof mark, more like the UL marking on electric appliances, but extended to all sorts of goods.
So this is where Ruger got inspired to make the lcpmax?
Thanks for the vidja.
Peaceful Skies.
It would be cool to see some mode Russian pistols, especially some of the more modern stuff.
The sights actually look usable on this.
Great video! Thank you for sharing!
God bless all here.
You should have a 3D printing expert take a look at those plastic pieces for you and make some replacements in case the originals break. So long as you have original parts that are not broken, it should be really easy to get good measurements off them and use them as the basis for a printed replacement.
The first pistol that I ever bought was a Bersa Thunder Combat Plus, a 15 round blowback .380, so it's true when they say that there's nothing new under the Sun.
Loving it
I actually have an old east german single stack makarov. I kinda love it...
Was it just me or did the sound drop off during the last round at the range?
That same kind of magazine with a tower is used in the Ruger max 9 I think
Shield plus magazine looks similar. Shorter “tower”, only one follower and spring, but some similarities.
The ruger lcp max uses the same idea for the mag
Oh yes, The Big Mak
The man looks a awful lot lot the HK P7M13 magazine, although the internals on the HK are more elegantly executed
The increase in the power of the cartridge is even more scary when you realize kinetic energy=(1/2)*m*v^2, so a 30% increase in velocity, with no change in the projectile, means a 69% increase in power...
(from what I've found, the PMM had had its projectile lightened a little bit. Still, we have a ~50% increase, from 302J to 462J, in muzzle energy)
I actually have an IJ70-18 that I love. Its the single stack 9x18 brother do this one lol
This is not a PMM .The breechblock of the PMM pistol is massive and has an angular shape.
This is ИЖ-70.
The PMM pistol is designed for cartridge 9x18 PM , and cartridges with high energy 9x18 PMM (индекс ГРАУ 7Н25),9x18 PMM (индекс ГРАУ 7Н16),9x18 PMM (индекс ГРАУ 7Н15)
he states that in the first 4 minutes blud
Это сказать: "slide" на английском.
@@aidencraft32not explicitly
лучше использовать слово breechblock. Слово bolt вообще-то о поворотном затворе.
@@worldoftancraft Все говорят: "slide" на английском, когда они говорят о полуавтоматических пистолетах.
Double stackarov
So regarding the helical chamber grooves, is it like a reliable alternative to chamber ring delay? How reliable is that delaying mechanism? Or is it practically a Blish lock?
This gun was quite good idea... If they added HK delayed blowback system and upgrade sights, add mag release button, hexagonal barrel....
Some companies do make custom grips with a built-in mag release button. They mostly go with the standard PMs though.
@@JD-rt5sd I am aware of that Zahal company products. They make grips for 8 rounder with mag release, I have one for mine. However this is PMM it is similar but, unfortunately, not identical.
heel release is the feature of the firearm. Something, that modern pistol sportsmen prove utility of. Since it was created to increase ergonomics of all other operations than reload and to prevent accidental release of the inserted magazine.
@@worldoftancraft time changes purpose of the things, our attitude and requirements for them...initial features are designed around the purpose. heel release also helped not to waste/loose magazines which might be numbered/serialized. Nowadays, general public uses makarov with intention of self defence when a split of s second counts. My initial comment was attempt to reconsider the purpose according to 21st century realities keeping in mind that guns now are very technological items.
@@kristapsziemelis in 21st century a judge can judge you for bearing two high capacity magazines.
That looks like a italian LPA TRT adjustable sight or a very close copy of one.
Wish you could find and do the Skyf pistol that is a further updated Makarov.
This is almost what I'm looking for in a Makarov, I'm after the 18-AH.
Crazy mag design...
I guess, now it's kinda Russian weapons marathon. Well, I hope Ian will show us PB sometime soon. Also this particular model of PMM, or IJ70 in .380 was quite popular among the private security companies in a brief period in the 1990 when handguns were available to them
Are the higher power Makarov cartridges available anywhere? Would any of the submachine guns that shot Makarov rounds from the Soviet Union be strong enough to use these new microwave rounds if I had a submachine gun of that era? And also on that same line of thinking do you think a CZ 82 with its chrome-lined barrel and being a little beefier and more of a robust and Better Built handgun, do you think it could handle the new Makarov round with the extra powder in it. Hopefully you'll answer this question in another episode.
Chrome lining doesn't make the barrel handle more pressure. It's only as good as it was without the lining.
There is a special cartridge for vz82. It's called 9×18 VZ82 with steel bullet and more power
So are the cartridges with extra powder something that are floating around on the market? Is that something I should be cautious of when buying ammo for my PA-63?
No, it’s not around
Yeah, right, the plastic in the mag follower(s) looks pretty iffy.
Is more powerful ammunition worth the trade offs?
Of course different roles and systems have different requirements but I just wonder if it's ever worth it to switch to more powerful ammo
Looked up a double stack 1911 magazine after seeing the single stack tower and what do you know!
One of my favorite carry guns.
we making it out of chalet with this