Wing Chun Bong Sau Mistakes - Kung Fu Report
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- Опубліковано 20 січ 2023
- Today we will talk about the bong sau. Specifically how to correct mistakes that are made both by students and instructors alike.
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What a great lesson. My first Wing Chun Sifu held sparring sessions every Saturday for intermediate students and higher and he would invite people from other styles to participate, including boxers. For me, a person without a lot of real fighting experience, it was invaluable. I learned right away, like you said, that Bil Sau is much better against a horizontal fist. I learned that Wing Chun doesn’t work exactly the way it does in a classroom environment but it DOES work.
Yes. When I took Krav Maga classes the instructor used what is basically a Biu Sau/Fak sau motion to intercept arcing punches instead of Tan Sau. We have tried the tan sau in class a few times, you really have to shift to make it work, punches are so powerful that they can collapse that Tan Sau.
Plus the biu sau seems more quick and natural. Then many times you can immediately grap/lap with that hand and punch or strike with other hand. I love the Biu/Fak intercept in those cases, it also is more structurally solid.
@@mokyan7 Wing Chun guy here...yeah you may have noticed your Biu/Fak sau motions work better than a tan sau against a horizontal punch to the head. That's merely because of the downward-pointing elbow of the Tan Sau, meaning there's a gap for horizontal punches to slip through. What Biu and Fak Sau have in common is that their shapes cover the high line quite naturally.
You’re so right about Wing Chun schools only training against Wing Chun punches/techniques! This problem is exacerbated because even when we try to train against different punching styles, a huge percentage of Wing Chun students have never trained anything else and have no idea how to throw a correct jab, cross, for example.
Great video, concise and well demonstrated.
This is why I train boxing too.
You right, but if you have friend who trains wing chun as well, you can practice at home, like he uses boxing, and you wing chun, and train wing chun against boxing 🥊💪
What a great sifu! Your explanation of proper bong sau is priceless. Also, your real example of getting attacked via different tech.
This is golden. Tvm sifu.
2:30 - So the idea is to move your opponent and not move around him and to turn yourself away. Even though is seems so logical at first glance 90% of the Wing-Chun on youtube does not get this. They don't understand that the techniques and trapping of Wing-Chun is designed to put you in a position where you face(Chiu Ying), whilst your opponent does not(baai ying). In this case the shifting/redirecting Bong Sau relies of the foreward pressure of your opponent and is only used as a transitional movement after a strike. When you are too far away to strike after using the Bong Sau you use Lap Sau to bridge the gap. However many people on youtube throw their Bong Sau up in the air to pose for the camera's and then do a Lap Sao, which is wrong.
My Sifu says "The Bong Sau doesn't bring bags to the hotel because it never stays."
Sifu, your instruction is unparalleled!! Thank you
Thank you Sifu for the great lesson and Happy new year!
LOVE THESE CLIPS
Great explanation and application. You clearly have given this material a lot of thought and attention. Much appreciated.
Very well explained
Thanks great learning videos.
Happy Spring Festival / Happy Chinese New Year, Adam.
4:17 - I was taught this movement teaches you to raise your guard first before your head. Especially when you are getting up from the ground or a kneeled position.
The more videos i am watching of Adam Chan.. the more I love his teaching style... what a great tescher and humble guy... wish they could do a grading sylalabus so that we can be a sifu or instructor to be able to teach his style...
Understanding when to apply techniques is very important in any martial arts... thanks
Great stuff! Many thanks :)
☯️ 0:30
Thank you.
Let things be free and do it, study the results, and adapt. Complex problem solving in a nutshell.
Yeh...that's not part of classical wing chun. Bruce turned away from a lot of this after he saw Cassius Clay box and figured out it was more footwork than trapping.
Great comments, 2:00 is exactly why I tell people, that randomly throwing elbows as strikes is a bad idea and can be dangerous if the person is aware how easy it is to defeat. Never gave much thought to a bong, because as a principle I don't over turn, but you're exactly right. I also agree with your later comments about compensating. Telling guys I work out with "don't do that" and then they say "but I can do this and that to correct", ...so you'd rather do 3 different follow up movements because you'd rather not be disciplined and just not do the thing you're compensating for?
This had a lot of good tips about bon sau, turning, alignment, the Biu, etc. Well done. I like how at the end you mentioned the limitations of "only" having someone attack you with Wing Chun punches / attacks. I noticed this when I took some Krav Maga classes for a year. The punches came at new angles I was not used to, I had to adapt quickly. Same with a few open spars with karate and TKD people.
Having your attacker only use Wing Chun punches / attacks (which most general people don't use) is a huge training limitation. Actually at the Wing Chun school I like to try things with a guy who used to train in boxing 20 years ago (or more). Despite not training the boxing for many years, he is still quick, lots of power, able to do all sorts of slips, ducks, hooks, punches, movements, etc. it is incredible. I have started adding slips and angles and more movement drills to my Wing Chun so it flows without being stiff and slow.
Good video. I often see too many people trying to block a punch at distance using Bong Sao. This action usually results in too much contact. I agree it is best to intercept first then redirect that energy using minimum motion.
I appreciate very much your lessons Sifu! And regarding bong sau what’s your opinion about the bong sau of Grandmaster Wan Kam Leung?
Thank you in advance for your answer!
From the Canary Islands (Spain), Manuel.
Howdy Adam. Why do you tend to stay in the center? Do you occupy their center only when they're dazed or off balanced? Isnt it risky to stay there where both of their arms can attack? Isnt it better to cut off one side and move to the opponent's outside?
4:33 - Also another very crucial thing worthy of a video on it's own. Too many people try to karate slam Wing-Chun techniques in order to make them "work". They don't understand that through Chi Sau you develop a sense for pressure and direction. In Wing-Chun there is a principle that states that all techniques should point towards centreline. This can also be the centreline of an attack. In practice when you give someone a lot of pressure, in order to deal with it they over react and try to push back. Often violating this principle.If you at that moment switch your techniques by letting go of the initial attack you will close the gap a lot more easily and probably will have a clean path to strike.
Depends on the opponent and the scenario. But in a situation like a guy trying to really Hurt you, quick biu jee to eyes and throat first, then do tan bong whatever or, after controlling hands with bong, go straight to guillotine the throat and kick knee at the same time. You should be mostly at the flank of the opponent.
Chi sao don't mean shit because no one fights with constant arm contact.
@@kato_dsrdr Thanks for your insight I have never looked at it that way, you have completely changed my life.
🤣
@@florisvanlingen
Dropping downwards while spearing upwards. I would never in a million years would have figure that out.
If someone punches me using a right jab. I will move to his right (blind) side and use a right tan sau to divert his right jab instead. I am moving my center line away from his attack and I am diverting his jab at the same time. It is kind of like Baagwa. But I don't use Baagwa footwork. Using a left bong sau to divert the opponent's right jab often exposes your right side and let your opponent's following left hook to hit you. Right jabs are often fake. So, you end up being hit by a left hook most of the time. A right jab in boxing is very different from a straight punch in Wing Chun. If you assume that a boxer punches you like what you show in your video, you will be hit most of the time. Also, boxers will do in and out. Turning your body in order to defend against a jab is dangerous. You also need to consider which hand you should use for the man sau. If my opponent's lead jab is from his right hand, I will use my right hand for my man sau.
Against the horizontal punch there's of course the Tan Sao.
So Bong Sau is only used against Wing Chun punches? How do you know whether it is a WC punch or street jab/hook at full speed? Not doubting, just trying to understand. Thank you for the great videos!
Experience from how those techniques are done your reflexes will know. The torque the step the upper arm will project the power arc.
@Tanglangfa. It can be used for other purposes at close range.
Sau is the rising block right.? Sorry I don't know much about wing Chun but you can change and lower your level slightly so you're head moves slightly under the punch when combining that with the rising block and attack his center with the rising block is another possible way you can use it just a thought and idea
Sorry didn't finish watching the entire video he did something very similar lol 😂😆
Another way you can use it is with an under hook it can lead to some takedowns
@bash. Beware of using bong sau until you know the different ways of using it effectively.
ok the reason why you need the bil sau on that block, is your footwork. so if you side step, that would swing your bon sau across your center, now you are on the outside angle, you check with right hand and then now he trapped.
You have a shot to head , ribs and knee, and then take down. its that T step stance you rely on , and you always quarter step and rely on your hands , which you are great at Alan, because of years of work and others arts you know. . But your teaching NEW novice people out of shape, who's hands are NOT great, not eeven good. so if given some footwork , they mess up the blocks and still survive because they have the angle and the footwork protects the center. Footwork is vital for newcomers.
Yo Adam an Chris, if you hvent already could you do Wing Chun basic movements with the Hakka Kungfu engine? Thanks in advanced
He already touched on that little when he shared Lung Ying Southern Dragon Style in couple videos!
@@angelorosini4326 awesome I'll check it thanks
This is what Mr. Angelo Rosini referring to , the link is below:
ua-cam.com/video/Lyl4QSaHPuo/v-deo.html
Hope help you, bro.
@@Michael-im4ue perfect 💯
@@angelorosini4326 oh wait. Mr Angelo, my Hakka Kungfu brother! I know you! Wats up! Ahahahha
Is wing chun actually very complicated?
No boxing or kick boxing can actually have up to 400 moves it's similar with wing Chun on the other hand in wing Chun you might learn all the moves plus follow ups and in boxing or kick boxing you can become a professional without even learning them all. If your looking at less complex you need to look into weapon wealding martial arts these have way less moves.
@@kounaboy7011 I don't 100% understand, sorry
The amount of strikes and block and counters the amount of trapping the amount of clinching the amount of postures and angles the type of delivery the hand and foot position the rolls and paths generate a combination value of 400 to 700 possible moves out of 8 limbs therefore empty hand martial arts have up to 400 moves that you need to learn. Meanwhile weapon wealding has fewer moves. Think of wing Chun it has 14 defensive blocks and 7 strikes on the wooden dummy if you make combinations out of that it blows up to 400 moves. If you think of disingaging pariing and responding as in following up you get 700 moves. In boxing and kick boxing it's the same amount of moves. A average boxer or kick boxer learns up to 30 moves if you follow up on those moves a average boxer or kickboxer learns hundreds of moves.
@@kounaboy7011 umm ok thanks
Just do MMA. Wing chun is tai chi masquerading as a real martial art.
Sorry for the first time in years following you I don't agree with the hand back better to have it out because he could trap it.
Yes, And No
Be like water my friend.
I think bong sau should only be used when the opponent is extremely close.. You'll get punched in the face when you use it to block a cross or a jab from a distance..
@kato. Right! And extremely effective too at close range. Try it out when your hand is grabbed.
So...TLDR:
Bong sau is not a block but a first move towards a parry.
Bong sau is bloody pointless. Great.
A lot of guys hit the dummy HARD with this technique and it seems slow.
Trash people don't wing Chun, people aka today bro change your style before someone bury your simple mind 💯