🦘Excellent tutorial. I am a Long-retired Machinist from nearly fifty years ago and I just wanted to find out again how to do the dividing head thing. Nice tutorial 🦘
this is an outstanding tutorial, but i'm only 12% as smart as you and will have to watch it 8 1/2 more times for it to sink in. Thanks for taking the time to make this.
Just getting my head around all this and this is the best video on cutting gears with a rotary table ive come across,nobody else shows set up just "look at me cut gears" with zero explanation on set-up,cheers! I haven't even un-crated my rotary table yet but im confident i understand it no problem now.
Just let us know how you get by with your gear cutting, understanding is the key to better performance and success... 👍 Thanks for your comment, Pierre
THANK YOU PIERRE !!!!!!! I usually use the speed index (direct indexing) which is simple, quick and easy. I was given the job to replace a 96 Micarta fiber gear that stripped out. I tried to use the charts that came with my dividing head but my peanut brain was having trouble. Watching your example instantly made my life live-able again. So now Pierre what is next for me ??? building a nice wall clock???... I am now a happy camper ... TM
Hi and thanks for a nice comment, it's quite some work to make those videos, very rewarding that someone learns something, your comment is really making me feel great, Pierre
I have not made a gear since 1979! but now I would not be scared to try it again! I actually understood what you were talking about,....eventually! robert in niagara falls
Trying and daring will bring some feeling of pride and accomplishment, and if you insist a little you'll succeed... ;) My wife was in Niagara a few weeks ago for her work, she enjoied her stay... Thanks for comment, Pierre
This was a great video, the best explanation I have ever watched on cutting gears, i am new at this and found it excellent, I am going to subscribe to your channel.thank you for a very informative video.
This is a very primitive method and most gears are cut using specialist machines, not milling machines and dividing heads. Good to see the milling machine method explained though.
The funny thing about the gauge, is that's too big for just about all the gears tha Philippe will ever cut... lol As opposed to mine that nobody had seen so far is the smaller size and will measure a littl better the wheels we're mostly doing, if he's nice I'll lend him mine... ;) Best way to get one at reasonnable price is to look on the local adds or possibly eBay... Cheers, Pierre
I'm not going to make the setup but the compound indexing is quite more complicated, could be done on my head, but not on Philippe's one. I't close from the setup to make helicoidal gears, we'll keep this for another day... lol
Hey...!!! West of Montreal isn't very far from us... Don't worry we all got a bucket of things to learn, it helps make the job interesting and challenging... ;) Welcome aboard, Pierre
@@kennyrmurray It's very rewarding to see our project evolve and end up as a great usable product... Keep on working on creative projects... Nothing to do with machining tips here, but, when you got a great woman, make sure that on a regular basis you make some very special efforts in order to show you love and appreciate her, you can't get a better partner in life than a happy spouse.
If I remember fine, in those years and being younger it was hard for a teacher to get a whole class captivated, and, even sometimes the theacher wasn't too captivated himself, a bad combination.... Glad you got something from my efforts... ;) Cheers, Pierre
Hi Pierre I'm just getting started in machining but am a retired mechanic and have bought two good machines and lots of tooling to have fun . One of my tools is a BS-2 dividing head so you might think why not only do i want to make straight cut gears also want to make helical type and my math is of a 4th grader .You made it real easy to calculate and understand great video Thanks . JM
Cutting straight gears is simpler, when it involves helicals ones you need to synchronise thé advance of thé table with the rotation of thé head, this requises quite some extra setup, I've not even dont it myself, it requires an extra gear set connected the table's advance and the rotation of the rotary head. You could look it up since there are some videos available on the subject.... With proper will eveerything is possible.....
Some people are affraid to make gears cause they simply can't figure out the math for setting up, when, if well explained, it's quite simple... ;) Cheers, Pierre
MIC-IBARRA FROM GTO MEXICO PERFECT VIDEO FOR ME I HAVE A PLATE THAT ONLY GOES TO 66 HOLES AND I DIDN T KNOW HOW TOCALCULATE MY GEAR IS 72 TEETH THANK YOU VERY MUCH I APPRECIATE YOUR INFORMATION
Hi Emma, after many months where my parents needed more care than the channel, even my dad passing away a little more than a mont ago, things are looking better and I'll bee slowly getting back on the horse... ;) Too bad that Daniells and I aren't gonna be able to meke it to the Bash this year, we'll miss you and the rest of the bunch, hopefuly next year we'll be able to fly to California... Cheers, Pierre
Yaaahh...!!! Guess you're in the ones that counted the holes and dots and gave me a thumbs down just because it wasn't right... LOL Let me get comfy on my throne... ;) Cheers, Pierre
thank you for this video, you teaching in very easy way.and i learn to much from your videos. one more thing can we use dividing head on lathe machine, please make video on lathe machine i waiting for your new project. thanks again
Hi can you help me pleas. I'm trying to cut 112 teeth into a wheel. With a 1:40 denying head with no look. The dividing plates I have are. A:15,16,17,18,19,20 B:21,23,27,29,31,33 C:37,39,41,43,47,49.. I think i need 28 plate or 14????
You're right about the numbers, you can add a 56 holes plate also. I you care to make yourself a plate, using your 21 holes plate you could create the needed plate with your choice of holes, 7, 14, 28, or 56. You need to decide if you want to undergo the task. for a 14 holes plate: 2 turns plus 18 holes out of 21 for a 28 holes plate: 1 turn plus 9 holes for a 56 holes plate: 15 holes You can start a plate with a new set of circles left blank for future needs... Hope this helps you, Pierre
There is a good reason they choose to use a 40 to 1 ratio in a dividing head and the reason is 40 is (2 x 20) or (4 x 10 )and the reason most diving plates have odd numbers on them is because an even number (2) or (4) times and odd number gives a even number. If the plates used all had even numbers you would not be able to make any odd number of teeth on a gear. The 64 tooth gear you mentioned was easy to figure without paper because 64 can be divided by 16 and the answer is 4. So 16 x (4 x 10) = 640, I call the multiple of the dividing plate hole circle times 40 the magic number. The number of spaced needed has to be able to divide into the magic number and the remainder has to be a whole number. Like 640 / 16 = 40 a whole number. So if you made a chart and took all the different hole circle numbers x 40 you would have a list of the magic numbers. Each plate number, say #17 can cut a gear with 17 teeth or 34 teeth or 68 teeth because 17 x 2 = 34 and 17 x 4 = 68 what I am doing is borrowing the x 2 of the 2 x 20 or the x 4 of the 4 x 10. So (17 x 40 = 680) or (17 x 2 = 34 x 20 =680) and (17 x 4= 68 x 10 = 680) If you give this a bit of thought it will make sense. I good way of checking your fraction math is simply to divide the number of spaces into the magic number and is the remainder a whole number. I hope this made some sense, I know what I am trying to explain but it is a bit hard to do.
I see I made a mistake, I meant to say 640 the magic number divided by 64 the number of teeth on the gear needed = 10, and we were using a 16 hole plate spacing times 40 to get the magic number of 640. So 10 spaces on a 16 hole plate whole result in 64 teeth.
When you ask people to figure more than one calculation at the time, it gets quite more complicated in itself. This is the reason there is a need to explain the calculations in a constant sequence in order to make it clear and not to loose the focus, Like reducing the 64 down to 16 holes index. One big challenge would be to make understandable how to make your own plate by making a hole circle simply by calculating each hole using only trig, and math, not that complicated for once you did it a few times or when you already understant trig., but the end of the world for an individual that trig. a nightmare in highschool... ;) Thanks for your input, something I'd like to revise is the way to introduce a Factor into making the dividing head believe it has another indexing circle than the one actually installed (Compound indexing or something of the sort) Regards, Pierre
That was a universal dividing head, you missed getting into compound indexing for those 127 tooth metric translation gears Pierre. :-) Very well explained and good you mentioned about not counting the hole the indexing pin was already in. Another way for people to remember it is to count the spaces between the holes. Index pin and sector arms are set at the next hole after the correct number of spaces.
I'm not going to make the setup but the compound indexing is quite more complicated, could be done on my head, but not on Philippe's one. I't close from the setup to make helicoidal gears, we'll keep this for another day... lol One simpler way to do it is to cut yourself a 127 holes dividing plate and count 90 spaces... Possible with a DRO, though. Thanks for your comment, Pierre
All the odd ball numbers 63 , 127 etc can be cut on a wide range dividing head if you can find the calculations . ( i have one of these heads but am struggling to find the info !!! )
Is it a head with gears that allow compound indexing to get those numbers? There usually called a semi universal dividing head if there's no added drive point to gear the head to the X axis feed screw. If so some versions of Machinery's Handbook give a bit of the procedure. B & S, Cincinnati, K & T and lots of others made heads like that so maybe finding an old manual for one of those would get you most of the information. I've not run across the term of a Wide Range Dividing Head but that doesn't mean much and you could have something I've not heard of before.
if you're talking about the round gauge on the shelf of the white board, this was from a short run done by Bruce Whitham an australian UA-camr, unfortunately, I'm not able to guide you to a source one of those. Anyway, thanks for viewing and for your inquiry...
@@pierresgarage2687 Well, I've been a teacher (English teacher) for 15 years and have usted unorthodox methods to teach some ideas. In other words: I cut the crap off like you did in this demonstration, and It works better than long theories that get some of us lost. Thank you, again.
The best teachers were the ones that loved what they do, those teachers will make it easy to share their visions of what they teach (just like you do search for the better way to do it)
I just use the chart that came with my dividing head it lists every division from 1-66 and that pretty well covers it for me 99% of the time, then I can save having to do the maths. :-)
Hi Brian, since you need 36 hours per day to get all your stuff done, why loose precious time in performing things that are already available... lol Nice to have the chart stil coupled with the tool, unfortunately it's not always the case... Cheers, Pierre
Also nice that the Cincinnati dividing heads only require 1 plate to cover all those divisions so it is one less thing to have to keep up with. :-) 36hrs a day does not seem like enough!! lol
Making more than straight teeth gears demands a quite more elaborate setup. In order to make helical or so gears requires that you synchronize the X axis with the spindle rotation and advance. This usually requires some extra gears installed that monitors the advance of the table and the rotary device used to hold the gear blank. There are some decent videos you can find by making simple searches on the subject.
Depending on where you live, you may goo to tool suppliers, ex. KBC, McMaster Carr, etc... Those are quite costly, though. (125+ USD per set) Another good source is on eBay, some suppliers sell some new sets for 45 to 100 USD for brand new ones (Asia made ) or if you're lucky you may find some decent used sets from individual sellers.
Morning Pierre - when I set the sector arms for gear cutting the spaces are counted after the pin position correct. Meaning I have the index head locked at say zero. The index is say 8/33 that would be eight spaces to the right of the pin at zero correct?
Hi Dan, you're early working on your projects. You set the pin in, bring the back sector arm directly behind it, count 8 holes NOT counting the actual one where the pin sets, set the forward sector arm, then the spacing is set... Just don't forget to advance your sector at every gear or you'll practice a lot.....
Pierre's Garage Thank you Pierre ! Stay tuned for my mishaps... LOL. You may even see my stepper motor driven index tool soon. It works just needs packaged.
I have a similar dividing head with similar dividing plates (largest number of holes = 49). I need to cut a gear with 57 teeth, so I'm going to have to figure out how to come up with a custom plate for that. A mill with a dro would be a big help. A mill without a dro could be used as well, but a more tedious task. A 3d printer might be used, but I don't have one.
Sorry about being so late... If you have a simple CAD program or something that can calculate and print a circle with 57 dots, you could print a sheet with those dots, stick that sheet on a circular plate prepared to fit on your rotary head, then, using a shap centering punch marking the dot as precisely as possible, finally, using a good quality sharp centering drill with a matching center corresponding to the pointer on your rotary head, this you could do on a drill press. With proper care, the precision would be quite adequate for just about any job you may be required to do in your home shop. Anyhow just let me know if this worked for you...
@@pierresgarage2687 Thank you for the suggestion, I may do that. I'm currently in the process of mounting a DRO to the lathe. In order to put the circle of 57 holes on a dividing plate on a single diameter I would need to go to a larger diameter plate than the ones that currently fit due to the hole spacing. That's a possibility. To be able to use the same diameter of plate I could also go with two sets of hole diameters with the holes alternating between the adjacent diameters. With the DRO I could use the hole circle function which allows setting the start angle, ending angle, and number of holes. I have built an adapter where I mount a small vertical table that gives me a Y-axis. I can let you know the route I eventually go with this if you like. I got the idea from Tom on the Oxtool channel where he makes a polycarbonate index plate for a Spindexer using the trick of two hole diameters in order to fit in all the holes he needed.
@@fredflintstone8048 Seems to me that the double alternated rows would only work on even number of holes, I haven't checked it very far but it's how it seemed like to me... To be looked into deeper.... I'm interested to find out how you'll manage this project. BTW, what is the ratio of your dividing head ?
@@pierresgarage2687 What you say would be true if the DRO did not allow for the beginning and ending angles of the hole circle which cures the problem. If you get a chance look at the Oxtool solution where he uses two diameters to solve the close hole spacing problem. What he does of course is use a cad software tool to create the circle of holes in order to help him visualize a solution, and then moves every other hole down to a lower diameter. Yes, they're not all symmetrically spaced around the entire diameters but that's of no real concern. Even number of holes, odd number, it makes no difference. When cutting the gear, first you work on one diameter of location holes essentially cutting every other tooth, and then move to the other diameter. My dividing head is a BS-0 with a ratio of 4:1
@@fredflintstone8048 Now it makes sense... The BS-0 is using quite small dividing wheels, I see what your problem is with fitting higher number of holes. With holes dispersed on more than one circle and unevenly spaced, there will be a special need to be extra careful not to contribute to fill the scrap bin,,, 😱👀
A few more details needed, do you have any sub-division that can be divided by 105? If not, you'll need to create yourself a 105 steps index wheel, one suggestion is to use some cad program and to print the pattern for later reproducing it on an index disk to replace the one you have presently... You need something that will divide 360 by 105 = 3.428571428571429 degrees. Let me know how you end-up doing, just curious to find out if there would be something obvious that I missed... ATB, Pierre
My divider head has a ratio of 90:1. Could i not use a 21 hole plate? 5x21 would be 105. Another thing i don't get is how do you calculate the diameter of the blank to be able to get the 105 teeth cut in to without error and ending up with 105 and a big space to the next tooth or come up short and not get the 105 in? Thanks for you're time
Hi, I need to cut a 13 tooth gear, the lowest number on my indexing plates is 15, infact the chart of available holes on your board are the same as what I have, how would I go about doing that. Thanks Tom
Sorry for the delay, but here is the solution to your problem. Since you have the same set of wheels it will be possible to get your job done. First thing, if you can divide to get a common denominator matching a number of holes on a wheel, you can also multiply... Here you need 13 holes from a rotary head with a ratio of 40:1 40 / 13 = 3 and 1/13 Let's find a wheel with something that has something in common with 13, if you multiply your numbers by 2, you get a fraction that is 2/26, no wheel with a number of holes of 26, let's multiply by 3, this time you get 3/39, since there is a wheel with 39 holes then you're all set, so now your calculation will be: 40 / 13 = 3 and 3/39 This means you'll have to advance 3 rotations and 3 holes on the 39 holes circle. Hope this helps you, anyhow let me know how it went doing th job... 🙂
@@pierresgarage2687 thanks for the reply and the info, my rotary table is 90:1 so I worked it out as the 39 hole plate as you said and 6 full turns and 36 holes and it came out perfect, I've found a calculator on a website that's been very helpful, I cut a 16 tooth then but when I cut the first couple of teeth the edge of the tooth was coming to a knife edge, I thought the cutter in the set was wrong but when I checked the cutter wasn't on centre like the 13 tooth, when I put the two together it was slightly thinner so it was sitting higher in the arbour, so I adjusted the height, made a new blank and everything was good, lesson learnt lol
@@breconmerthyrgwr9250 Yep... It's veray easy to make mistakes when cutting gears, so many things to take into account... Glad everything turned right for you... 🙂
Thanks Eddie, Got your request about making the blanks, kinda busy at the moment, but, when evr possible I'll include that in a list of to do videos, even though, there are charts easily available on finding out, I'm told by Philippe that Fusion 360 will do all the calculations for you, and, that fusion 360 is free if you're not making more than $100k a year... Thanks for your comment, Pierre
Hi Max, Compound indexing is quite more complicated and involves add-on to the process, you need to include an extra convertion to the head so it think it's got more holes in the plate than there really are. Here is a video I found that could illustrate this: ua-cam.com/video/tQBhHjNO69s/v-deo.html It's pretty well explained, you only need to change the numbers in order to adapt to your situation... ;) Thanks, Pierre
Thanks mate , I checked out that video but my head is a jaffo jaracin ( excact copy of a cincinatti wide range indexing head ) it has two indexing handles & a smaller indexing plate to advance main indexing plate . I am trying to find the calculations for this style of head . cheers .
Hi Steve, So far I've never tried scraping, probably won't, I'm getting some arthrosis in quite a lot of my joints, scraping isn't an easy one on those joints... There are other things that I'll gladly share in some up and coming videos... ;) Glad you took some time to leave a comment, Pierre
I absolutely understand and agree. Hand Scraping w/o a power scraper is much more physically demanding than I imagined it'd be and I'm still what many would consider "not to far past my prime".
U can comtroll your calculation by deviding 360 to 31 = 11,61290323 degree for each teeth and 9/31*40 is also 11,61290323. With desimals it wil not allways be acurate but U will know U are in the right erea.
The advantage of using some determined wheels and whole numbers is quite obvious when you realize that it's really easy to get mixed up when having to repeat many times the operation, imagine having to calculate let's say 40 times a fractional number of degrees, but, I understand that for just getting an aproximation of the calculation the exercise is usable....
How much torque does it take to turn the input shaft? Just curious to see how big a stepper you'd need to make a semi automatic one (not cnc, just push button indexing).
Hi Barry, Not that much, you also have to make prevision to lock the head during the cut or the backlash will cause some issues, unless you're able to find a head with zero backlash, then, the price will be there also... ;) Aaaah...!!! CNC, nice for that kind of repetitive operation, mostly if you need a whole set of high numbered teeth gears... Claculations are quite easy in the end once you got the hang of it... Anything moving towards your new shop yet...? Cheers, Pierre
Hi, there is no brand or sticket on the head, more likely to be an Asian made tool, it must weigh around 90 pounds ( 40 kg.) it performs all right, I had to do some work on the chuck mount cause of some botched installation from a previous owner, the chuck is still 3 to 4 thousands of inch of runout, nothing a good grind can't improve. Botom line, it's doing ok when I take careto compensate the few flaws... Cheers, Pierre
That's not a problem, you need to use 90 in your calculations instead of 40 where it's question of the ratio, if you got problems just get me the number of holes in your indexing plates and we'll see together how it 's possible... As an example: The 31 teeth gear, 90/31= 2 turns plus 28 spaces on a 31 holes plate, could also be 2 turns and 56 holes on a 62 holes plate, all depends on your available plates... Cheers, Pierre
Read again my previous response, I realized I made a mistake, should be 62 holes plate NOT a 58 holes... 3 of the gears are easy: 31 teeth: 2 turns + 28/31 47 teeth: 1 turn + 43/47 58 teeth: 1 turn + 16/29 The 64 teeth would require a 32 or a 64 holes plate...
Hi Pierre ! Very nice explanation ... eventhough I knew - nice anyway ! I've heard you've started singing ... is that so ? ... or maybe just a fake rumor ?
Best way to find projects to make 40 teeth gears, is to Gogoole for those, also if you get a 90:1 head you're in business for variety... lol Cheers, Pierre
I have a 90 to 1 head but the gear I need is 53 tooth ! The plates I have there is no indexing plates the will lend itself to this tooth number !!! I dont think there are plates that are made for this pitch
there was a time when I wished there were tons of those.....!!!!! Now that I make the difference , I realize that what I'm missing lately are TeeTH..... 😒😒😂😂🤣🤣
I never once fell asleep while watching your episode. Thank you very much for the education.
Don't forget to wake me up if ever I'm not keeping myself awake... lol
Thanks for the nice comment, Pierre
🦘Excellent tutorial. I am a Long-retired Machinist from nearly fifty years ago and I just wanted to find out again how to do the dividing head thing. Nice tutorial 🦘
Hi Gary,
Thanks for your comment and enjoy your retirement....
this is an outstanding tutorial, but i'm only 12% as smart as you and will have to watch it 8 1/2 more times for it to sink in. Thanks for taking the time to make this.
Once you understand the basic principle, you could also teach this to the next student.... 🙂
Thanks for a very rewarding comment... 👍🙂
Cheers, Pierre
Just getting my head around all this and this is the best video on cutting gears with a rotary table ive come across,nobody else shows set up just "look at me cut gears" with zero explanation on set-up,cheers! I haven't even un-crated my rotary table yet but im confident i understand it no problem now.
Just let us know how you get by with your gear cutting, understanding is the key to better performance and success... 👍
Thanks for your comment, Pierre
THANK YOU PIERRE !!!!!!! I usually use the speed index (direct indexing) which is simple, quick and easy. I was given the job to replace a 96 Micarta fiber gear that stripped out. I tried to use the charts that came with my dividing head but my peanut brain was having trouble. Watching your example instantly made my life live-able again. So now Pierre what is next for me ??? building a nice wall clock???... I am now a happy camper ... TM
Great job Pierre I love the way to from all the videos I watch you’re NO#1 thank you my friend 👍
Thanks for the nice comment, it's always very rewarding to read a comment from someone that appreciated a video....
ATB,
Pierre
Great break down of how to find and use the correct dividing plates. Its made it a lot simpler for me to understand. Thank You
Hi and thanks for a nice comment, it's quite some work to make those videos, very rewarding that someone learns something, your comment is really making me feel great, Pierre
Salut Pierre, c'est de loin la meilleur explication que j'ai vu sur le net , j'ai enfin compris le principe du diviseur. Merci beaucoup .
Yea i would have NEVER figured this out without watching this video THANKS
I'm glad it was helpful to you...
Outstanding explaination Pierre! Phillp is a lucky fella to have you as a friend and mentor.
I could not have said it better myself, you did again Pierre.
I have not made a gear since 1979! but now I would not be scared to try it again! I actually understood what you were talking about,....eventually! robert in niagara falls
Trying and daring will bring some feeling of pride and accomplishment, and if you insist a little you'll succeed... ;)
My wife was in Niagara a few weeks ago for her work, she enjoied her stay...
Thanks for comment, Pierre
Thank you Pierre for you great video you simplified the explanation well done 👍
Glad you liked and thanks for taking a moment to leave a comment.... 👍👍
Just found your channel and Subscribed. Very nice interesting. Thanks
Thanks for the sub, hope you enjoy the content.... 🙂🙂
A very good tutorial thank you for sharing
thanks for your nice comment, glad it helped you... 🙂🙂
This was a great video, the best explanation I have ever watched on cutting gears, i am new at this and found it excellent, I am going to subscribe to your channel.thank you for a very informative video.
Glad you got some good info from the Channel and thank you for the kind words plus support, Pierre
I'm hearing you. This video is just what I was looking for 👍
I don’t cut gears, but I use them in my bikes. This was an interesting tutorial on the math and setup that goes into cutting them, thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Leraning new things is a fun hobby...!!!!
Never know it could be useful someday...
This is a very primitive method and most gears are cut using specialist machines, not milling machines and dividing heads. Good to see the milling machine method explained though.
I am admiring that gear tooth gauge set. Phil - perhaps it should fall of Pierre's table and find its way to my shop... smile!
_Dan_
The funny thing about the gauge, is that's too big for just about all the gears tha Philippe will ever cut... lol
As opposed to mine that nobody had seen so far is the smaller size and will measure a littl better the wheels we're mostly doing, if he's nice I'll lend him mine... ;)
Best way to get one at reasonnable price is to look on the local adds or possibly eBay...
Cheers, Pierre
Thank you very much.
After long time now Iandrstand how it’s working.for me was really helpful thank you ❤
I'm realy glad you got something from the video, thank you for letting me know... 🙂🙂👍👍
Thanks - that was useful. Always fun to visit your shop. Now crack the 127 tooth with 90:1 dividing head for me....smile!
_Dan_
I'm not going to make the setup but the compound indexing is quite more complicated, could be done on my head, but not on Philippe's one.
I't close from the setup to make helicoidal gears, we'll keep this for another day... lol
Thank you for helping me a lot
Congratulations on your presentation.
Thank you very much for the kind words, glad it helped you..... ✨👍👍
Cheers from west of Montreal I'll be keeping a eye on you guys for tips and trick as I progress through my bucket list of thing to learn.
Hey...!!! West of Montreal isn't very far from us...
Don't worry we all got a bucket of things to learn, it helps make the job interesting and challenging... ;)
Welcome aboard, Pierre
Everything down to basics! Great job👍
Glad you liked it!
Excellent video! I just bought a dividing head so I can make the change gears for my South Bend. Thank you!
Have fun and enjoy doing your project, spend quality time in the workshop...
Thanks for your comment, Pierre
Thank you. I spend all my spare time in my garage, my wife misses me haha. My gears are coming out really good! I did 7 so far, 8 more to go.
Surprisingly on a drill press. They're only aluminum. I posted one quick clip
@@kennyrmurray
It's very rewarding to see our project evolve and end up as a great usable product... Keep on working on creative projects...
Nothing to do with machining tips here, but, when you got a great woman, make sure that on a regular basis you make some very special efforts in order to show you love and appreciate her, you can't get a better partner in life than a happy spouse.
very good video it helps me in my college machining courses
Thanks for your comment, it's rewarding to hear that I could inspire someone with some of my videos...
Cheers, Pierre
Nice tutorial ! 👍👍👍
Merci Pierre !
Hi Eddy, glad you enjoyed and took some time to leave a nice comment, Pierre
Better explanation than my college professor did! Thanks, Pierre!
If I remember fine, in those years and being younger it was hard for a teacher to get a whole class captivated, and, even sometimes the theacher wasn't too captivated himself, a bad combination....
Glad you got something from my efforts... ;)
Cheers, Pierre
Hi Pierre I'm just getting started in machining but am a retired mechanic and have bought two good machines and lots of tooling to have fun . One of my tools is a BS-2 dividing head so you might think why not only do i want to make straight cut gears also want to make helical type and my math is of a 4th grader .You made it real easy to calculate and understand great video Thanks . JM
Cutting straight gears is simpler, when it involves helicals ones you need to synchronise thé advance of thé table with the rotation of thé head, this requises quite some extra setup, I've not even dont it myself, it requires an extra gear set connected the table's advance and the rotation of the rotary head. You could look it up since there are some videos available on the subject....
With proper will eveerything is possible.....
@@pierresgarage2687 Thank it won't be anytime soon and when i try i will do a video. Are you going to make new videos .Thanks JM
Thank you, Pierre. Nice explanation.
Thanks for viewing and leaving a comment, Pierre
excellently explained thank you for posting
Glad you enjoyed it!
It is just brilliant, simpe. The best explanation which I ever had. really really thank you. Now I am a subcriber of you.
Thank you for viewing and for the sub, Pierre
Excellent info Pierre - sort of stuff that's always super useful to run through. :)
Some people are affraid to make gears cause they simply can't figure out the math for setting up, when, if well explained, it's quite simple... ;)
Cheers, Pierre
Real nice job on this video
Hi Dale,
Nice of you to pay a little visit... ;)
Cheers, Pierre
Im so lucky when looking your video 😊 God bless you
Thanks man for your information , i think you are a great teacher
You are very welcome, much appreciated....
Thanks for your comment and for viewing, Pierre
MIC-IBARRA FROM GTO MEXICO PERFECT VIDEO FOR ME I HAVE A PLATE THAT ONLY GOES TO 66 HOLES AND I DIDN T KNOW HOW TOCALCULATE MY GEAR IS 72 TEETH THANK YOU VERY MUCH I APPRECIATE YOUR INFORMATION
Glad it helped you, thanks for taking a moment to leave a comment.... 🌈👍
thats awesome Pierre. welcome back. and thanks for a great video.
Hi Emma, after many months where my parents needed more care than the channel, even my dad passing away a little more than a mont ago, things are looking better and I'll bee slowly getting back on the horse... ;)
Too bad that Daniells and I aren't gonna be able to meke it to the Bash this year, we'll miss you and the rest of the bunch, hopefuly next year we'll be able to fly to California...
Cheers, Pierre
Got to take care of that stuff first Pierre.
Pierre the shop teacher. Thanks for the video.
Gears eperts, once you made a couple you get the hang of it, but not necessarely a great taste of making a living from it... lol
Cheers, Pierre
Is he eating them hot peppers in class Harold....LOL
Could be.
Thanks this video,and thanks for your very clear explanation, God bless you sir,,
So nice of you to take a moment to leave a comment, thanks..... 👍🌈
nice explanation Pierre. well simplified, well explained. well the drawings leave a little to be desired ;-))
talk to you later
Yaaahh...!!! Guess you're in the ones that counted the holes and dots and gave me a thumbs down just because it wasn't right... LOL
Let me get comfy on my throne... ;)
Cheers, Pierre
Super video thx a lot
Thank you, glad you liked.....
Thank you for the explanation.
thank you for this video, you teaching in very easy way.and i learn to much from your videos. one more thing can we use dividing head on lathe machine, please make video on lathe machine i waiting for your new project. thanks again
Hi can you help me pleas. I'm trying to cut 112 teeth into a wheel. With a 1:40 denying head with no look. The dividing plates I have are.
A:15,16,17,18,19,20
B:21,23,27,29,31,33
C:37,39,41,43,47,49..
I think i need 28 plate or 14????
You're right about the numbers, you can add a 56 holes plate also. I you care to make yourself a plate, using your 21 holes plate you could create the needed plate with your choice of holes, 7, 14, 28, or 56. You need to decide if you want to undergo the task.
for a 14 holes plate: 2 turns plus 18 holes out of 21
for a 28 holes plate: 1 turn plus 9 holes
for a 56 holes plate: 15 holes
You can start a plate with a new set of circles left blank for future needs...
Hope this helps you, Pierre
There is a good reason they choose to use a 40 to 1 ratio in a dividing head and the reason is 40 is (2 x 20) or (4 x 10 )and the reason most diving plates have odd numbers on them is because an even number (2) or (4) times and odd number gives a even number. If the plates used all had even numbers you would not be able to make any odd number of teeth on a gear.
The 64 tooth gear you mentioned was easy to figure without paper because 64 can be divided by 16 and the answer is 4.
So 16 x (4 x 10) = 640, I call the multiple of the dividing plate hole circle times 40 the magic number. The number of spaced needed has to be able to divide into the magic number and the remainder has to be a whole number. Like 640 / 16 = 40 a whole number.
So if you made a chart and took all the different hole circle numbers x 40 you would have a list of the magic numbers. Each plate number, say #17 can cut a gear with 17 teeth or 34 teeth or 68 teeth because 17 x 2 = 34 and 17 x 4 = 68 what I am doing is borrowing the x 2 of the 2 x 20 or the x 4 of the 4 x 10.
So (17 x 40 = 680) or (17 x 2 = 34 x 20 =680) and (17 x 4= 68 x 10 = 680) If you give this a bit of thought it will make sense. I good way of checking your fraction math is simply to divide the number of spaces into the magic number and is the remainder a whole number.
I hope this made some sense, I know what I am trying to explain but it is a bit hard to do.
I see I made a mistake, I meant to say 640 the magic number divided by 64 the number of teeth on the gear needed = 10, and we were using a 16 hole plate spacing times 40 to get the magic number of 640. So 10 spaces on a 16 hole plate whole result in 64 teeth.
When you ask people to figure more than one calculation at the time, it gets quite more complicated in itself. This is the reason there is a need to explain the calculations in a constant sequence in order to make it clear and not to loose the focus,
Like reducing the 64 down to 16 holes index.
One big challenge would be to make understandable how to make your own plate by making a hole circle simply by calculating each hole using only trig, and math, not that complicated for once you did it a few times or when you already understant trig., but the end of the world for an individual that trig. a nightmare in highschool... ;)
Thanks for your input, something I'd like to revise is the way to introduce a Factor into making the dividing head believe it has another indexing circle than the one actually installed (Compound indexing or something of the sort)
Regards, Pierre
That was a universal dividing head, you missed getting into compound indexing for those 127 tooth metric translation gears Pierre. :-) Very well explained and good you mentioned about not counting the hole the indexing pin was already in. Another way for people to remember it is to count the spaces between the holes. Index pin and sector arms are set at the next hole after the correct number of spaces.
I'm not going to make the setup but the compound indexing is quite more complicated, could be done on my head, but not on Philippe's one.
I't close from the setup to make helicoidal gears, we'll keep this for another day... lol
One simpler way to do it is to cut yourself a 127 holes dividing plate and count 90 spaces... Possible with a DRO, though.
Thanks for your comment, Pierre
All the odd ball numbers 63 , 127 etc can be cut on a wide range dividing head if you can find the calculations . ( i have one of these heads but am struggling to find the info !!! )
Is it a head with gears that allow compound indexing to get those numbers? There usually called a semi universal dividing head if there's no added drive point to gear the head to the X axis feed screw. If so some versions of Machinery's Handbook give a bit of the procedure. B & S, Cincinnati, K & T and lots of others made heads like that so maybe finding an old manual for one of those would get you most of the information. I've not run across the term of a Wide Range Dividing Head but that doesn't mean much and you could have something I've not heard of before.
Couldn't a guy just make a index plate with 127 holes using the online bolt circle calculators like from www.theoreticalmachinist.com/BoltCircleCalc
Thanx.....very Nice and clear
Glad it helped, thanks for viewing and for your comment...😉
what is the gear model that has different teeth sizes behind you in the beginning of the video? i would like to have one becuase it’s interesting.
if you're talking about the round gauge on the shelf of the white board, this was from a short run done by Bruce Whitham an australian UA-camr, unfortunately, I'm not able to guide you to a source one of those.
Anyway, thanks for viewing and for your inquiry...
Thank you for all you help 23 min that made life easier
Two years in a trade school and I didn't learn this part; 10 minutes, job done. Please make a video on lead calcutation, Máster.
That's the way I was shown in school and understood quite well....
@@pierresgarage2687 Well, I've been a teacher (English teacher) for 15 years and have usted unorthodox methods to
teach some ideas. In other words: I cut the crap off like you did in this demonstration, and It works better than long theories that get some of us lost. Thank you, again.
The best teachers were the ones that loved what they do, those teachers will make it easy to share their visions of what they teach (just like you do search for the better way to do it)
@@pierresgarage2687 Yup. That's what vocation means. Keep up the good work, and thanks for sharing the best of you.
Love your video 🖒🖒. It help me a lot thank you
This type of comment is a great reward for producing the video...!!!
Thanks for taking a moment to say you appreciate, Pierre
I just use the chart that came with my dividing head it lists every division from 1-66 and that pretty well covers it for me 99% of the time, then I can save having to do the maths. :-)
Hi Brian, since you need 36 hours per day to get all your stuff done, why loose precious time in performing things that are already available... lol
Nice to have the chart stil coupled with the tool, unfortunately it's not always the case...
Cheers, Pierre
Also nice that the Cincinnati dividing heads only require 1 plate to cover all those divisions so it is one less thing to have to keep up with. :-) 36hrs a day does not seem like enough!! lol
Thanks for the lesson you give us but I also want to know how they calculate and how to cut ehrical gear please am waiting for an answer please
Making more than straight teeth gears demands a quite more elaborate setup. In order to make helical or so gears requires that you synchronize the X axis with the spindle rotation and advance. This usually requires some extra gears installed that monitors the advance of the table and the rotary device used to hold the gear blank.
There are some decent videos you can find by making simple searches on the subject.
Would you know a good source of purchasing the tooth gage you used?
Depending on where you live, you may goo to tool suppliers, ex. KBC, McMaster Carr, etc... Those are quite costly, though. (125+ USD per set)
Another good source is on eBay, some suppliers sell some new sets for 45 to 100 USD for brand new ones (Asia made ) or if you're lucky you may find some decent used sets from individual sellers.
Good explanation.
Hi Bill, thanks for your comment, Pierre
good video/lesson
Hi chuck,
Thanks for the visit, Pierre
thank you much for the explanation in the video
Morning Pierre - when I set the sector arms for gear cutting the spaces are counted after the pin position correct. Meaning I have the index head locked at say zero. The index is say 8/33 that would be eight spaces to the right of the pin at zero correct?
Hi Dan, you're early working on your projects.
You set the pin in, bring the back sector arm directly behind it, count 8 holes NOT counting the actual one where the pin sets, set the forward sector arm, then the spacing is set...
Just don't forget to advance your sector at every gear or you'll practice a lot.....
Pierre's Garage Thank you Pierre ! Stay tuned for my mishaps... LOL. You may even see my stepper motor driven index tool soon. It works just needs packaged.
@@houseofbrokendobbsthings5537 You'll end up with a pretty functional shop soon enough if you keep this pace... 😎👍
Thank you sir
Glad you enjoyed and thanks for your comment... 🙂
I have a similar dividing head with similar dividing plates (largest number of holes = 49). I need to cut a gear with 57 teeth, so I'm going to have to figure out how to come up with a custom plate for that. A mill with a dro would be a big help. A mill without a dro could be used as well, but a more tedious task. A 3d printer might be used, but I don't have one.
Sorry about being so late...
If you have a simple CAD program or something that can calculate and print a circle with 57 dots, you could print a sheet with those dots, stick that sheet on a circular plate prepared to fit on your rotary head, then, using a shap centering punch marking the dot as precisely as possible, finally, using a good quality sharp centering drill with a matching center corresponding to the pointer on your rotary head, this you could do on a drill press.
With proper care, the precision would be quite adequate for just about any job you may be required to do in your home shop.
Anyhow just let me know if this worked for you...
@@pierresgarage2687 Thank you for the suggestion, I may do that. I'm currently in the process of mounting a DRO to the lathe. In order to put the circle of 57 holes on a dividing plate on a single diameter I would need to go to a larger diameter plate than the ones that currently fit due to the hole spacing. That's a possibility. To be able to use the same diameter of plate I could also go with two sets of hole diameters with the holes alternating between the adjacent diameters. With the DRO I could use the hole circle function which allows setting the start angle, ending angle, and number of holes. I have built an adapter where I mount a small vertical table that gives me a Y-axis.
I can let you know the route I eventually go with this if you like. I got the idea from Tom on the Oxtool channel where he makes a polycarbonate index plate for a Spindexer using the trick of two hole diameters in order to fit in all the holes he needed.
@@fredflintstone8048
Seems to me that the double alternated rows would only work on even number of holes, I haven't checked it very far but it's how it seemed like to me... To be looked into deeper....
I'm interested to find out how you'll manage this project.
BTW, what is the ratio of your dividing head ?
@@pierresgarage2687 What you say would be true if the DRO did not allow for the beginning and ending angles of the hole circle which cures the problem. If you get a chance look at the Oxtool solution where he uses two diameters to solve the close hole spacing problem. What he does of course is use a cad software tool to create the circle of holes in order to help him visualize a solution, and then moves every other hole down to a lower diameter. Yes, they're not all symmetrically spaced around the entire diameters but that's of no real concern. Even number of holes, odd number, it makes no difference.
When cutting the gear, first you work on one diameter of location holes essentially cutting every other tooth, and then move to the other diameter.
My dividing head is a BS-0 with a ratio of 4:1
@@fredflintstone8048
Now it makes sense...
The BS-0 is using quite small dividing wheels, I see what your problem is with fitting higher number of holes.
With holes dispersed on more than one circle and unevenly spaced, there will be a special need to be extra careful not to contribute to fill the scrap bin,,, 😱👀
I learn something more every time! Thank you.
Hi Jeffry,
Thanks for viewing and for taking the time to leave a comment, Pierre
Hi sir. I need to cut a gear for my lathe with 105 teeth and only got a index wheel up to 50. Could you help me please, thanks in advance
A few more details needed, do you have any sub-division that can be divided by 105? If not, you'll need to create yourself a 105 steps index wheel, one suggestion is to use some cad program and to print the pattern for later reproducing it on an index disk to replace the one you have presently...
You need something that will divide 360 by 105 = 3.428571428571429 degrees.
Let me know how you end-up doing, just curious to find out if there would be something obvious that I missed...
ATB, Pierre
My divider head has a ratio of 90:1. Could i not use a 21 hole plate? 5x21 would be 105. Another thing i don't get is how do you calculate the diameter of the blank to be able to get the 105 teeth cut in to without error and ending up with 105 and a big space to the next tooth or come up short and not get the 105 in? Thanks for you're time
Hi, I need to cut a 13 tooth gear, the lowest number on my indexing plates is 15, infact the chart of available holes on your board are the same as what I have, how would I go about doing that. Thanks Tom
Sorry for the delay, but here is the solution to your problem. Since you have the same set of wheels it will be possible to get your job done.
First thing, if you can divide to get a common denominator matching a number of holes on a wheel, you can also multiply...
Here you need 13 holes from a rotary head with a ratio of 40:1
40 / 13 = 3 and 1/13
Let's find a wheel with something that has something in common with 13, if you multiply your numbers by 2, you get a fraction that is 2/26, no wheel with a number of holes of 26, let's multiply by 3, this time you get 3/39, since there is a wheel with 39 holes then you're all set, so now your calculation will be:
40 / 13 = 3 and 3/39
This means you'll have to advance 3 rotations and 3 holes on the 39 holes circle.
Hope this helps you, anyhow let me know how it went doing th job... 🙂
@@pierresgarage2687 thanks for the reply and the info, my rotary table is 90:1 so I worked it out as the 39 hole plate as you said and 6 full turns and 36 holes and it came out perfect, I've found a calculator on a website that's been very helpful, I cut a 16 tooth then but when I cut the first couple of teeth the edge of the tooth was coming to a knife edge, I thought the cutter in the set was wrong but when I checked the cutter wasn't on centre like the 13 tooth, when I put the two together it was slightly thinner so it was sitting higher in the arbour, so I adjusted the height, made a new blank and everything was good, lesson learnt lol
@@breconmerthyrgwr9250
Yep... It's veray easy to make mistakes when cutting gears, so many things to take into account... Glad everything turned right for you... 🙂
@@pierresgarage2687 definitely, many things to get right, thanks again 👍
thanks engineer
u did it best
Thank you for a nice comment, Pierre
Thank you for that. Cheers
Hi Arthur, thanks for your comment, Pierre
Thanks for the video, all those numbers LOL. But how do you get the size of the blanks, to start with? LOL
Thanks Eddie,
Got your request about making the blanks, kinda busy at the moment, but, when evr possible I'll include that in a list of to do videos, even though, there are charts easily available on finding out, I'm told by Philippe that Fusion 360 will do all the calculations for you, and, that fusion 360 is free if you're not making more than $100k a year...
Thanks for your comment, Pierre
What about compound indexing - say for a 127t gear ?
Hi Max,
Compound indexing is quite more complicated and involves add-on to the process, you need to include an extra convertion to the head so it think it's got more holes in the plate than there really are.
Here is a video I found that could illustrate this:
ua-cam.com/video/tQBhHjNO69s/v-deo.html
It's pretty well explained, you only need to change the numbers in order to adapt to your situation... ;)
Thanks, Pierre
Thanks mate , I checked out that video but my head is a jaffo jaracin ( excact copy of a cincinatti wide range indexing head ) it has two indexing handles & a smaller indexing plate to advance main indexing plate . I am trying to find the calculations for this style of head . cheers .
Thanks Pierre! Hey have you done much scraping or ever done a video on it? Thanks again for sharing your knowledge!
Hi Steve,
So far I've never tried scraping, probably won't, I'm getting some arthrosis in quite a lot of my joints, scraping isn't an easy one on those joints...
There are other things that I'll gladly share in some up and coming videos... ;)
Glad you took some time to leave a comment, Pierre
I absolutely understand and agree. Hand Scraping w/o a power scraper is much more physically demanding than I imagined it'd be and I'm still what many would consider "not to far past my prime".
How about a rack gear for rack and pinion?
thank you
Thanks for your comment, Pierre
Thank you Thank you
You're welcome and thanks for viewing...
U can comtroll your calculation by deviding 360 to 31 = 11,61290323 degree for each teeth and 9/31*40 is also 11,61290323. With desimals it wil not allways be acurate but U will know U are in the right erea.
The advantage of using some determined wheels and whole numbers is quite obvious when you realize that it's really easy to get mixed up when having to repeat many times the operation, imagine having to calculate let's say 40 times a fractional number of degrees, but, I understand that for just getting an aproximation of the calculation the exercise is usable....
How much torque does it take to turn the input shaft? Just curious to see how big a stepper you'd need to make a semi automatic one (not cnc, just push button indexing).
not much, you have to remember to undo the shaft lock....
Hi Barry,
Not that much, you also have to make prevision to lock the head during the cut or the backlash will cause some issues, unless you're able to find a head with zero backlash, then, the price will be there also... ;)
Aaaah...!!! CNC, nice for that kind of repetitive operation, mostly if you need a whole set of high numbered teeth gears...
Claculations are quite easy in the end once you got the hang of it...
Anything moving towards your new shop yet...?
Cheers, Pierre
Hi Pierre, what make and model of dividing head do you have? Thanks
Hi, there is no brand or sticket on the head, more likely to be an Asian made tool, it must weigh around 90 pounds ( 40 kg.) it performs all right, I had to do some work on the chuck mount cause of some botched installation from a previous owner, the chuck is still 3 to 4 thousands of inch of runout, nothing a good grind can't improve.
Botom line, it's doing ok when I take careto compensate the few flaws...
Cheers, Pierre
Hi Pierre is it possible to workout the cuts for these gears on a 90:1 rotary table with dividing plates?
That's not a problem, you need to use 90 in your calculations instead of 40 where it's question of the ratio, if you got problems just get me the number of holes in your indexing plates and we'll see together how it 's possible...
As an example:
The 31 teeth gear,
90/31= 2 turns plus 28 spaces on a 31 holes plate, could also be 2 turns and 56 holes on a 62 holes plate, all depends on your available plates...
Cheers, Pierre
Pierre's this is the plates I got Plate 'A' - 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20
Plate 'B' - 21, 23, 27, 29, 31, 33
Plate 'C' - 37, 39, 41, 43, 47, 49
Still trying to get my head around the math
Read again my previous response, I realized I made a mistake, should be 62 holes plate NOT a 58 holes...
3 of the gears are easy:
31 teeth: 2 turns + 28/31
47 teeth: 1 turn + 43/47
58 teeth: 1 turn + 16/29
The 64 teeth would require a 32 or a 64 holes plate...
Thank you Pierre I think I got it now
how to you cut a involute spur gear? It is not a triangle on a circle.
Hi Pierre !
Very nice explanation ... eventhough I knew - nice anyway !
I've heard you've started singing ... is that so ? ... or maybe just a fake rumor ?
It's a fake rumor, if I start signing, the World is gonna collapse...
Cheers, Pierre
mic-ibarra from gto mex i tkink today is my lucky day because my plate does not have 36 holes but he s 18 should be good enough i hope
Once you get to understand the principle it's easier to determine what is required or how to make yourself the proper tool if not available...
Sir I want 57 teeths calculate please
why is it never a 40tooth gear you need from your 40-1 rotary head?
Best way to find projects to make 40 teeth gears, is to Gogoole for those, also if you get a 90:1 head you're in business for variety... lol
Cheers, Pierre
I have a 90 to 1 head but the gear I need is 53 tooth ! The plates I have there is no indexing plates the will lend itself to this tooth number !!! I dont think there are plates that are made for this pitch
Sir 77 teeth how divided
First, what is the ratio for your rotary table...?
Do you have a list of your number of holes on your indexing plates.
67 dislikes by those not prepared to watch the full video
Maybe the video wasn't meant for them, but they didn't have to unlike, though.....
Go figure...!!! 😉👍
Counted. Twice cut once and it’s still to short
Then, it"s time for a rest and when back, also time for a new piece after planning a new approach... lol
Boring
You're an idiot
anything more than 2 is a lot of teets. LOL
there was a time when I wished there were tons of those.....!!!!!
Now that I make the difference , I realize that what I'm missing lately are TeeTH..... 😒😒😂😂🤣🤣
Very informative video Pierre. Keep up the great work 👍
@@markramkhelawan1580
👍👍