New Zealand is OBSESSED!! with Timber Framing
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- New Zealand is obsessed with timber framing
The majority (92%) of wall framing is precut or pre-nailed timber
In this video, I’m going to talk about the different materials used for structural framing. I'll touch on the cost of each option and stick around to the end of the video to learn why New Zealanders prefer timber framing.
Galvanised steel framing is prone to rust as much as timber is prone to rot. It shouldn’t be a problem unless you have constant moisture inside on a cut edge. If rust was a risk, we wouldn’t be using galvanised nail plates, bolts, screws, nails etc in timber-framed houses.
I like steel framed houses. Try imagine kit homes I've done architectural designed homes one of 300m2 and the latest at 187m2 kits are well priced and bring your kitchens in from IKEA in brisbane and save a shittonne.
A quick coat of rust prove paint on all cuts & drilled holes would also reduce the risk but add some time & some minimal cost.
Steel Framing
I carry a pack of etch prime cans in the truck.............just spray when its a risk, especially in a channel or near the bottom plate where moisture is an issue.
Sometimes at the end of your clean down, just do a walk around with the can. Come back in the morning, and good to go. Keeps some photo's for Council as they love this and don't see enough people protecting properties. It maybe costs me $200 a house - thats all.
I having doing timber framming and carpentry work for 20 years in Australia.
As I know, the problem is the design of the mordern houses is challenging the knowledges for the young chippies. For saving the government foundings, they cut off the apprenticeship period from 4 years to less than 2 years . Nowdays, the young boys knowing nothing about the conventional house framing, they used to do prefab trusses framing or even prefab the wall framing as well.
Once the job involves complicated steel works or special design of the architecture engineering. Main while, the regulations updates alot for the multi townhouses building, a lot of fire protection and water proofing regulation are related with the framing. It is even a challenging for experienced old guys, not even for the young boys who are not finish year 12. (I have no biases, but it is essential to have the basic math knowledge or reading ability to understand the plans). I have seen so many jobs which the young boys fxxk them up.
Aerated concrete blocks are leading in Europe.
do a video comparing our regulatory environment to literally any other country?
Yes!!
🤣 We look good compared to 3rd world countries. All of our standards for that matter water quality, products that are so bad it's illegal in a lot of other countries sold at the supermarket, rules around environmental impact.
I think that regulations play less of a role than people think. My house is completely different to 99% of houses in construction methodology, and with an engineers sign-off and a couple of chats with the council explaining how the build worked, we got there through compliance.
I did however spend maybe $30k worth of productive time drawing my plans for a 157.7m2 basic house, and the recklessness to push the boundaries a little.
Because the suppliers fuck is over for the choice in anything else.
ahhh might explain why the new Kiwi sparky we got, here in Australia... looks at brick like its the devil
😂😂😂
He’s not wrong.
I hate having to do cable pulls on brick dwellings. Especially for those with brick internal walls.
Seriously, my hilti chaser is the most used tool in the box here in Sydney.
Modern brick houses in Australia are usually timber frame the same as brick houses in NZ.
@@Battleneter emphasis on modern. Spend time in the inner west, parts of north Sydney, or eastern suburbs and you’ll find plenty of double brick homes from turn of the century that are built this way.
I can't stand anything but brick walls, internal and external.
In summary, we use timber because that's what our builders know. Plus NZ builders are so much in demand that they can't be bothered with learning new materials and technologies. While I remember being super annoyed by this when we built our house, I kind of understand from their perspective. If you were a business and your products sold like hot cakes, would you care to change?💡😁
Better Earthquake resistant. We do have a lot of them.
What of Sips and clt construction
Always found it funny how Europeans, for example, constantly talk trash about stick built houses in the US. Its like they dont know they're built similarly in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and im sure some other places.
Again, a few extra points... Haha
1. Steel - Also issues with condensation. I've seen the paint flaking off the jambs because of the thermal transfer around the window trimming framing. Another point is that steel fraing and timber react very differently from an engineering perspective, so mixing and matching the two systems tehnically could cause issues in an earthquake - This more applies to steel portal and girt construction with internal timber walling. Builders I've dealt with have gone with steel once or twice and vowed never to go this way again.
2. Timber framing doesn't have to be limited to stud and nog construction. My build starts tomorrow, and it relies on 190x45 girts @ 900CRS vertically to main walls, and 450crs to feature walls. 70x35 strapping internally, and you get a wall that performs at a total R value of R4 (with 2x layers R2.2 wall batts) compared to traditional brick and 90x45 stud wall at R2.0 (With R2.2 insulation). Has less framing as a % of wall area by about half, so less heatloss through thermal bridging. You do however need either a portal frame with wind posts to support this system, or cantilevered posts.
SIPS? I would be interested in your views, also hybrid i.e. Wood frame wall with steel frame trusses for example.
I know the US does a lot of the same timber framing, but why does NZ use so much more Horizontal studs(Noggins/Dwangs??) compared to the US?
Brick has a R value of about 0.45, as compared to common 90mm wall batts of R2.5, therefore brick and other masonry have little resistance to heat flow but has the capacity to absorb and release heat quickly, depending on thickness
We have a corrugated iron roof that was done in the early 70s - it's still going strong.
You didn't talk about concrete reinforced walls which can handle earthquakes much more then timber.
Builders are way smart. I reckon really quick to adapt if steel. But yeah, I like wood.
Thought the reason for timber framing was resistance to earthquakes. Houses without a framework collapse within seconds of an earthquake starting.
In Arley beach in 2011 there was a harricane that leveled everthing and the structures left standing where masonary and steel framed homes..
I worked on a concrete prefab panel apartment building in auckland that had steel framed inter apartment walls. I have seen many prefab panel commercial buildings, and i work in a concrete block commercial building. I have worked on sites where we built concrete block retaining walls with steel reinforcement bars. one of them the block layers screwed it up and there were major voids in the mortar filling so they ended up cutting the face off the block wall at the top and trilling it in many places to inject more mortar into the wall.
Never heard a NZ builder call nogs-dwangs😂
If I had the chance to build a new house, I would go for rammed earth or strawbale. More natural materials, the better. NEW timber framed home seem sterile, and use products that are harmful to the environment and the new occupants.
Hempcrete is a very good option as well.
What about SIP's. getting more common in nz. We used them.
Nz is obsessed with thimber roof trusses. They are such a waste of space. With the cost of land so high, why not use rafters to gain extra storage/living space on the same footprint.
not many carpenters these day know how to build a pitched roof. especially in volume framing. speed and $$$ over practicality.
Why haven't you considered an attic truss?
They always been available in NZ since Mitek and Pydra joined the market.
Pitching a roof with an attic space to intend to use as another floor would require more timber and engineering to allow for the weight which makes a more expensive build. As timber goes up in size, it becomes more expensive, more steel in the concrete for thickenings to allow for support, rafters would move from 4x2 to 8x2 depending on span, or possibly even laminated beams. More cost. Basically a truss is the most economical way to frame a roof and the ceiling.
Depending on span is the key consideration.
I think the use of wood frames in NZ houses owes something to the common importation in the 19th century of pre-fabricated mail-order houses from USA. These California-style houses became the model for the villas seen in early suburbs of Auckland such as Herne Bay and Ponsonby. From there, they were progressively modified and modernised, but the style and construction of NZ houses still owes much more to USA than UK.
Earthquakes.
It's about Earthquakes.
For example: NZ and Japan share the same problems and we share our knowledge/learning too.
@@flangekiwi No the use of timber is mainly because it has always been a readily available cheapish resource, exactly the same reason why timber is the most common material used in Australia that has few Earthquakes. Concrete is is the most common material used in NZ in modern commercial buildings even low rise, and that would work for residential housing but its more expensive.
@@flangekiwiCalifornia has earthquakes.
you didn't mention structurally insulated panels ?
What about Structural Insulated Panels?
Formance, an NZ owned company, manufactures, supplies and can install on site much more quickly than a stick build. They will also train builders on the installation.
Haha. Most builders won't know this product. They just use the easiest product for them and don't care about thermal properties or warmth for the owner. Like Aluminium dg windows. Go upvc.
@@Scooter1964NZ Scooter, I think that you're an old fart like me... I'm in my 60's and work in an industry where I have to certify to new standards every two year. Builders should be held to the same standard.
@@Scooter1964NZ yup, they truly don't know/don't care. I experienced this with my build. but the story goes deeper because it is about builders engaging for real with architects / drafties. they don't.
@@Scooter1964NZ
On a price point, SIPS panels still aren't quite there yet. I opted for 190mm wall framing running at far lower framing to wall surface ratio.
@@richardwendt9266 what did you use for insulation in the 190mm thickness
Mass timber such as CLT or PLT is also gaining in popularity.
Thanks good job great info
Why is the wood pink ?
Is it radiata pine ?
I'd have been very interested to see a comparison on straw bale homes as well but great video anyway, really interesting. 👍
I can help with what I know about straw bales…
Long story short 😀😀 don’t, they look ok’ish to begin with if you like everything not square, and with all the constant maintenance, even with large eves they still need a lot plus large eves block out light, check some of the Aussie guys that have done it…
Thanks@@g_force3857, appreciate the feedback. 👍
@@g_force3857 you can build straw bale without eaves if you want lol. What are the tasks of this mythical 'constant maintenance' you are referring to with straw bale homes?
why is all the timber pink??
I'm currently building a garage that is partially 2.8m below ground and i'm using versaloc stackable masonry blocks made by Adbri Masonry interesting concept, I have a couple of videos, the footing and reo in the wall is massive.
I like SIPS panels and wonder why they're not getting to our market in NZ.
They are. We are about to begin our new build with Formance SIPS panels. Anyone considering building should seriously be looking at SIPS. Far superior wall system.
@@Thespecialone1970 Good to hear, now they just need competition to bring their prices down.
Lol rammed earth at $10000/m2..yer right to expensive and for uber wealthy! One material that is light and fireproof is papercrete, made with recycled paper the blocks can be made say l-900 x w-250 x h-250 and run reobar thought the cut by hand saw them morted toghter with cement and finished with cement render. No insect or rodents attach it. I think the only downside is moisture, but some smart building scientists could figure that out!
Here in nz with have paper, cement etc. Plus i also think and advantage is the fletchers dont fuken own it.
its because timber is better
Interesting take on building systems in NZ. One interesting fact not mentioned, is all H1.2 timber frames in houses have a 5 year warranty, even when used in structural elements as long as its protected. When the NZBC clearly calls for all structural elements to have a 50 year warranty? Yes most homes are built from timber in NZ and one reason could be, we have only 2 real building suppliers to the industry in NZ, who just by coincidence own the most forestry in this country. Also although I agree this system is most well known by builders and councils, is lack of understanding of newer and possibly better systems really the reason to avoid the potentially better result? There are many ways to build in NZ with newer technology, and claiming that we have been doing this for over 100 years, does not mean its the best way today. After all when settlers first arrived here we didn't have cars, I'm sure an argument to return to using a horse and cart, won't be accepted by most today. I know this presentation was trying to be neutral, however the dogma of the industry to resist change from timber stick frames, and revere to the old ways, still seeps through the presentation. Enjoyed your thoughts, albeit not agreeing with all - but its good to have these ongoing discussions within the industry. - cheers. G
Re different methods. There is nothing wrong with timber, we just need to be open to different framing methods than 3604 prescribes. Are dwangs needed everywhere if you wrap the house in RAB? Can the RAB contribute to stud strength and thus increase spacing? What about a service cavity - something alien to 3604? I don't know if this is on the radar of the Minister for Building, probably not... (Maybe try to interview him Josh!)
Hebel?
The NZBC and The building standards are based strongly around insuring minimal loss of life in earthquakes. In the last few years the earthquake demands placed on every building oin new zealand has been risen dramatically. Building single level, timber framed, steel rooved houses is the cheapest solutio . Blocks, concrete etc may be structurally better in some ways but are so heavy and need even larger foundations to stop the tipping over in earthquakes. Also a concrete building genrrally has to be eemolished after an earthquake. Wigh timber and gib you can peel the gib off, straighten the frames and reline with new gib. Not easy but you do save the bulk of the building
Btw Waitakere city council got rammed earth, cobb, staw building on there books. This was done by mayor bob Harvey in the mid 90s.
We do have steel framing & mounting anything on the wall (TV, shelves, etc) takes a lot of effort, patience and toggle bolts 😩🏠
Rendered straw bail is cheap, a fair few places around here even use high resin woods in conjunction with straw bail. Instead of tantalized wood. Straw grown on site, some places could harvest their own clay and lime for render.
like your videos. havnt got a house yet, but im thinking prefabricated steel frames as an option. that's down the track though
Your content is fantastic, the click-bate titles just make it seem a little cheap IMO don't do it. You do not need to.
nothing like walking into a screeching new timber home, let alone when it's windy. screws showing on gib after a while? oh well NZ loves timber
Thank you so much for this brother.
I really appreciate you
From Melbourne, Australia
Thank you 🙏🏽
what about concrete?, im from Chile, the earthquake country jaja and we are used to do the first floor of concrete and second of wood. is feasible or uncommon?
Concrete slab suuuuper common here, but not first floor. If first floor needs something like that it's usually concrete block with rebar and concrete infill
Concrete cylinder block 1st floor with wood framing on 2nd floor is actually very common here.
Most houses in the 60s and 70s had this. My whole suburb in Auckland consists of these half concrete half wood framed houses.
Unfortunately it's not as common now, I would assume it's due to cost, building labour is now extremely expensive in NZ, cylinder block generally takes too many man hours, and land costs are very high so savings need to be made elsewhere.
@@citation51power Still common when the first floor is also retaining. Even then sometimes the back wall will be concrete block and side/front walls will be timber frame. I think they're tougher to detail/insulate which plays into it too.
Would be interested to hear your thoughts on 3d printing for homes.
I liked the idea of cobb. Have stayed in a cobb building and the thermal properties where anazing. I have gone off Cobb after a local Cobb house did not stand up to an earthquake that well.
the strength and other benefits of concrte blocks stem from the concrete and steel reinforcing
What I don't get is NZs reliance on gib and nogs for shear strength as gib is not a structural material in most other building codes. The amount of nogs could be reduced and the stiffness of houses majorly increased if we committed to using an external sheething layer (osb, ply, ecoply, RAB etc). The houses are also more air sealed this way, and makes the waterpoof layer more effective.
Nogs are more often than not dictated by cladding choices. For example, cedar shiplap reruires nogs at 480CRS max, where longrun could be 900 or 1200crs max.
SIP Structural Insulated Panels, are becoming another cost effective option. They basically do away with stud framing.
Let's debate that, it may have been cheaper pre covid. ICF is a good contender.
Pumicecrete is by far the best building material on the planet Pumicecrete is a mixture of pumice cement and water mixed and poured into a set of reusable forms walls are poured from 12"to 24" thick pumicecrete is fireproof termite proof rust rot and mold proof non toxic and has a high R value and good sound attenuation solid poured walls means no critters can live in your walls Pumicecrete can be built for a fraction of the cost and time and pumice is one of the few building materials that can go directly from the mine to the job site ready to use without any additional possessing and zero waste
Take care Ray
What's it like in an MM8 earthquake though
As we can see each way of building has it pros and cons !!!! In NZ it maybe more easy or effective to build from timber !!! But where i live it more effective in concrete or bloc !!!! Concrete might take more time !!!! But it cheap stronger and it been prove more effective against earthquake and storm
I reckon you need to use more exclamation marks.
Great video. I do wonder if we will start to see any frame and truss in the factories being made from LVL. Down here in South Canterbury there is one company who specialises in tilt panel construction mostly commercial buildings but they also homes. There a few in Tekapo that are tilt panel due to the site and the designs of the house. Multiple levels with basements built into a hillside
I've seen it done at a carters factory in the north island it was just way more expensive
My house was built during WW1 (as part of a factory build that needed War Resource Exception) and ENTIRELY made of masonry including the internal walls & luckily I live in the Waikato so low earthquake risk but after over 100 years and several earthquakes it is still standing strong. If was to build a new home I would do the same, all walls masonry because while hanging pictures is harder you don't need to find studs to hang shelving or TV mounts & accidental wall damage is all but impossible so good for rentals because if a tenant punches a wall in a repeated fit of rage you can evict them from the hospital as they get their broken hand fixed with no damage done to the house. It has downsides but the ups out way them.
Go for NP LVL
Love these obsession series
Steel sucks for fire performance too. Timber is the better framing material.