Tartine Bread : The Art and Alchemy - Part 5

[@liamgreen5394]

After watching all 5 parts of this series, I must say the time and effort you have put into these videos is simply amazing! Looking forward to more videos!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you very much for the feedback. It helps that I am also doing all of the production and editing myself. Otherwise these types of videos would be prohibitively expensive to make.

[@crystalsypniewski857]

I appreciate how you compare bread baking to art making. I'm a pastry chef and have found this to be true. All hands are different, and the outcome will never be exactly the same with different hands.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. I appreciate the feedback.

[@Christine-ec3mh]

Tom you are AMAZING!!! I’ve watched all of your videos and finally today I’m making my first sourdough bread. Your information is invaluable. Thank you so very much for all your time, knowledge and willingness to “bend the rules” to put your own spin on bread making. 🍞🥖🥰

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@janinebarclay9604]

I watched all 5 parts. Amazing. I feel like I took a course there were so many details explained that I didn't understand. In the past I followed rules blindly. Everyone should watch this before there first loaf and after their 50th loaf. I cannot thank you enough for this.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you so much. I feel like this was some of my best work. I appreciate the feedback.

[@geririckard167]

What a journey! You have an enjoyable teaching style and your dry humor makes learning fun! Thank you for presenting all this information!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you.

[@lolajacomino6574]

Thank you so much Tom, you go very deep into sourdough and I want you to know that it’s very appreciated. Love how you apply philosophy in this video ❤

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks !

[@marypygott278]

What an incredible series! I have learned so much from you, thank you so much! I love your concluding statement in which you talk about how the process involves chemistry, physics, biology, art, all five senses plus intuition. It is an incredibly fascinating and satisfying process! I am just beginning my sourdough journey and am referring to your helpful videos each step along the way. Again, thank you!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback!

[@MartaSpendowska]

So grateful for the time you put into the series. Masterful storytelling of the bread’s life. Thank you!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you.

[@rebchagas]

Oh my good, the last time i remember being a fan of someone, was from the backstreet boys... even my husband is jelous! You rock!!!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. Also check out my website at thesourdoughjourney.com

[@rezarajaeian4617]

Well worth watching every minute of your video; so methodic, detailed, and elaborate. I was hoping to hear your comments on the difference of the taste of each loaf. Thank you for your time and effort and for sharing your videos on UA-cam. Looking forward to more videos.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you so much for the feedback. There is very little difference in flavor with the different techniques I demonstrated here. The flavor different usually occurs with different flours, substantially different bulk fermentation temperatures and in particular, longer cold in the refrigerator.
Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it.

[@nunsandcanssailingadventur9951]

Tom - this whole series has changed how I approach baking. Thank you and enjoy all of your future loaves! Looking forward to the next leg of The Sourdough Journey.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback!

[@raulb_]

Once again, thank you so much for putting the effort to perform such experiments and documenting them so well. I really appreciate the attention to detail even translating Fahrenheit temperatures to Celsius’ constantly. You truly make your videos a great companion to the Tartine books. Thank you!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback!

[@AnnainOK1]

Tom, thank you. Buying the books helped, but having someone do a thorough analysis of the process allowed me dial in on it much faster than I would have otherwise. I would gladly buy you coffee, tea, or an adult beverage of your choice!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@davidmarshall4786]

Although I have YET to produce a photo-worthy loaf after months of trying, each new video gives me the courage and hope to try, try again! One of these days! Keep ‘em coming! 👌🏻

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you! Keep at it. You’ll get there.

[@craigleadley2472]

This video series deserves far more views. So useful, thanks.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. Some of my best work.

[@marikamando]

Super exciting stuff! I am finally getting a better understanding of Tartine! So glad that are such passionate bakers out there willing to share.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you.

[@elenasbread]

Thank you very much for these very informative videos. I definitely learned a few things to experiment with and your meticulous style of keeping the record of the process is incredibly useful. Interesting how you combine your mathematical approach with a poetic outlook on bread making. Complexity in it’s pure form!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you! I appreciate the feedback. Art and science are two sides of the same coin.

[@user-hi1kd6uq7x]

Thanks a lot! Your videos helped me to make my starter stronger, and bread more delicious. Looking forward for new lessons!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback. Good luck!

[@renischulz1809]

I am blown away by what you have created here. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and the results of your experiments making those breads. I tried to learn the Chad Robertson Tartine bread method but was often frustrated by the results and I did often not know what I had made wrong. Now I understand the many ways of failing in the process of bread making and how to fix it. Thanks a lot.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback! Good luck. Tartine is a great recipe but tricky to master.

[@AgileCait]

Thanks Tom! I love the scientific method, being a retired molecular biologist doing research on wheat! It is quite a journey. I am still in the sticky, slumping phase of the sourdough journey. So thanks to your videos I will be building more structure in the future. I’m looking forward to your future experiments!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback. Good luck. If you go the the Videos page on my channel, you can sort them in chronological order and there is some method to my sequencing of the videos. They each generally build on the prior videos. Also you can jump the the Summaries of each video for a quick preview of the findings from each one, then determine if you want to watch the whole thing. I made these videos longer format to ensure that you (or others) could exactly replicate the results by following the recipe and steps.

[@vanessacheshire1795]

Wow. So interesting! My loaves are normally like loaf one, sometimes a bit more dense. I’ve been wondering how to get a more open crumb, and can’t wait to try these techniques next week! Thanks for the incredibly meticulous videos.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback. Good luck!

[@ataisa1]

Tom This is a spectacular series by an outstanding mind who knows not only to bake breads but humanity and art at it’s best!
Just a wonderful series
Please continue
Best Wishes

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback. I appreciate it.

[@lauracooper6549]

Very very nice work! I’ve learned so much from watching these videos, and also so many of your other videos. I’ve sampled many other bread baker’s videos and teaching methods, but none of them kept me interested long enough to learn a whole lot. Too many spend too much time trying to entertain, but are lacking substance. I’ll search no further and hopefully master this Tartine recipe from what I’ve learned and am still learning. Thank you so much!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. I appreciate the feedback.

[@smpatel2]

Thank you Tom (and Susan). I had followed your first series of videos. I must confess that just applying the basics and the invaluable information you shared, my Sourdough Journey leapfrogged by many bounds. It's was such a revelation.
I will now embark on the next phase with the concise information you had shared in this serious. I am already feeling optimistic that I too will be getting closer to that extraordinary loaf.
May you be blessed for the time and effort on an exceptional production of series and videos on The Sourdough Journey

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you so much for the feedback.

[@profiAcc]

After seeing all of the 5 videos, I can just congratulate you for all the effort and amazing info. It's all about experimenting and trying to improve, every time. Thank you again, this was very useful

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback. I appreciate it.

[@lysdexic9129]

Cheers for your videos you inspired me to follow this recipe and start baking again. I was baking sourdough bread a few years ago with occasional moderate success. So a couple of months ago I followed the procedure you outline on a starter, which was a different method to the way I used to do it, this method is much faster and cleaner, really like it. The problem was with my house during winter being so cold that even in the oven with the light on or on top of the fridge the starter wouldn't budge, just sat there, dormant. So I needed a way to maintain a relatively constant temperature during the winter (10 degrees inside) and when summer comes (30+ inside) I'm not one for climate control, it is what it is :) What I took most out of your videos was the importance of temperature for the entire process. The youtube channel chilli chump made a ferminator for his chilli sauce, I figured I could apply the same concept to sourdough. So I bought a small fridge, a 1 foot long ceramic heater coil and the ink-bird temperature controller. Drilled two holes in the fridge, one for the heater the other for the temperature sensor of the ink-bird, plugged the heater and fridge into the ink-bird. Turned on the heater when the temperature controller read 26 degs C I set the thermostat on the heater coil. The ink-bird can be set to maintain a temperature within a range by either turning on/off the heater or off/on the fridge. For the last 2 months the heater coil, very low power, has done all the work and the fridge has sat between 24 and 28 degrees. When summer comes the fridge may get turned on when the temperatures reach 40+. I may not have even needed the fridge, but what the heck, it looks great, it's smaller but not too small, no freezer, insulated, has a glass door and has room for a leven, an autolyse and the starter, all sitting at ~26. To make bread I prepare the leven ( I use half the amount of ingredients in the leven, so I can add it all in at once later, I maintain a separate starter) and autolyse with salt (I don't do the fermentolyse) before work say 6am, I get home at 4 pm, combine the leven and autolyse. I then do a series half-hourly stretch and folds until about 9pm, each time putting the dough back in my temperature controlled fridge. That same evening after the last stretch and fold I put them baskets and put them uncovered in the normal fridge until the next day when I again get home ~24 hours later. I then bake them. I've done this three times now and the bread looks and tastes amazing, nice sizes holes, not massive, practical, fantastic crust. The bread stays soft for at least 4 days. I will be following this exact method maybe 2-3 times a week, so that I can make bread for the parents, sister and myself. The other variation I've done from the ingredients you've used is to reduce the white flour by 100grams and increase the whole wheat by 100 grams, I did this because the dough was too wet, the water remains at 700 g. I guess that's a property of the current flours i'm using. Changing the type of either flour will most likely change the ratio again. Currently the dough is quite sticky but manageable. Lastly I bought the Lodge double dutch oven, it's so much easier putting the dough into the shallow part of the oven and putting the deeper lid on over the dough. The whole process really fits in so well with everyday life. Also I feed the starter mostly every day, but every second day seems ok. After a feed there is the smell of fruit, rock melon.
Anyway mate, thanks again for your video series, i've enjoyed them all, Regards John.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the detailed feedback! I love your process and the mini-fridge is a fantastic idea, especially with the heating element added. It really is all about the temperature and one you manage temperature, you manage time, which is really the reason most people don’t bake sourdough. Thank again!

[@jimfromri]

Fascinating video series. I watched the first video earlier today and found I just couldn’t stop until I had watched all of the parts. I just had to see how the loaves turned out. Your passion for baking bread is infectious and I enjoy your approach. Thank you for making and sharing your videos. -Jim

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback. I appreciate it.

[@helleman]

Love your blend of both an engineering and artistic mind to this process. Your passion is evident.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback. I appreciate it.

[@Gloria-gk3zv]

A great final outcome 😉

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks!

[@steffenp6554]

Hi Tom. This is an amazing series! Thank you very much for sharing these insights, your thought process and the procedure in such detail! This is an important contribution and fills a gap in the online sourdough content.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you so much for the feedback. Even one year later this content is still solid. I have not made any substantial improvements to the Tartine method in that time.
I am using a blend of bread flours now with slightly lower protein % for a slightly softer crumb.

[@mikoltbrown7316]

Wonderful! Thank you, Tom, for all this Information and Inspiration!!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@margaretwidjaja9981]

done watching all 5 series. Really appreciate your effort in making these videos ❤, I've been baking sourdough bread for almost a year, but produce many inconsistent results, so watching your video definitely helps me. Looking forward to learn more from your video.👍

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback!

[@joycemcclendon9559]

Excellent series! I look forward to each and every one of your very clear detailed videos. They help me to understand and apply the principals and strategies toward my very good loaves. Thank you. Keep up the good work!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback!

[@taichimaniac]

Thanks for this thoughtful series Tom! This is first time commenting on anyone's post. I started my adventure 10 years ago wanting to take classes, but realized the affordable way to learn was just to do it until I got it right. My failures with using sourdough starter was it didn't seem to have enough "oomph"; the gluten seemed to have broken down to make a decent loaf and ended up with a nice tasting pizza crust. I really appreciate your time sharing, thoughts and analysis. You have shown that as we get deeper into the art, we will have a better understanding by asking why or what if and using the scientific method. Looking forward to your next video!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you so much for the feedback. I really appreciate it.

[@sandrasanzenbacher232]

Well Done. If I have learned anything at all from watching every one of your video's it's that I have to try different approaches instead of making the same loaf time after time. Try to improve each loaf and learn from it. This was a great video and I thank you for helping me along my journey.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you!

[@pedroruizpoyatos8367]

Hi Tom. Thanks for sharing your experience and experimenting the alchemy of the loaves to show us how we might improve our loaves....

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you.

[@hewhoisred7685]

Tom, I've very much enjoyed this and all of your videos! I really appreciate your extremely detailed, analytical approach. Focus on the why, instead of just the how is so very helpful to truly gaining a deep understanding of the process. If you are taking any suggestions for new videos, might I suggest that you perhaps share your method/recipe for sourdough pizza! I would love to see your fresh take on this side branch of doughlosophy! Thanks much, and keep being awesome.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback. I appreciate it. I will add a “pizza” video to my list of topics. I have a few more really interesting videos lined up in the coming 2 months.

[@hewhoisred7685]

@@thesourdoughjourney I've got the bell on "all". You've got a fan in Eureka, CA. Looking forward to your next project.

[@davidryangrossman]

Tom,
Another series of knockout videos. Thank you again for all of the effort and attention to detail you put into these videos. I especially loved your analogies this time around. Couple questions and then a couple-few thoughts.
1) So where do you stand? As of now, if you set up to make some just plain bread, what are you going to do? No lights, no cameras, no adoring fans. Just Tom, his dough scraper, and some punk rock attitude. What's your method at this point?
2) Where do you go from here? Fillings? Enriched breads? More experiments with malted vs. unmalted, flours with different protein levels, different baking times/temps, hydration levels? Where do you want to take this?
- Hear hear on what makes Chef Robertson's bread so good. I am willing to bet his flour is milled the day before, or at most the week of, his using it. That's something a home baker probably can't replicate, and I think that gets at why so many other recipes aimed at home or cottage bakers explicitly call for a lot more handling. They are taking into account the lower quality, but still acceptable, flours available to the general consumer. Might be time to get a tabletop mill.
- This series has made me rethink some things I have been experimenting with recently. As I mentioned in my comments to your last series, I have been handling the dough significantly more during what you call "pre-mixing" and what I would call "mixing" or "incorporating." I mix the leaven, flour and water, about as much as you do, making sure that there is no dry flour in the bowl and no clumps in the dough. Let rest for 25-60 minutes, depending on the ratio of bread flour to whole wheat/rye. Then use the Rubaud technique with some stretch and folds thrown in for good measure for 6-7 minutes. Then I add the salt and remaining water and continue mixing for another 3-4 minutes (just Rubaud and stretch and folds - no pincers at this point), until the dough "comes back together," as Chef Robertson says. Your videos make me think I am working the dough for too long. The consensus seems to be that it is very hard to overwork dough when working it by hand, no matter the technique employed. But I think I am wasting energy, because the dough reaches a point at about 4-5 minutes (after autolyse but before the salt is added) where it feels about as developed as it's going to be. That is a preliminary result for me, and I need to do a lot more baking before I know for sure. But that seems to be the case. What have you found? Now, I am also working with lower protein bread flour (Central Milling Artisan Craft at 11.5%), and I am not sure whether flour with a lower protein content develops earlier than higher protein flour and then essentially stalls, or whether it develops at a slower rate. Something else to play around with.
- How do you like the higher protein flour? I have moved away from even KAF bread flour because, at 12.7% (I think), I found the crumb I produced with it to be gummy and relatively flavorless. What do you think? Chef Robertson and Maurizio Leo both make a point of saying they avoid high gluten flour when possible for that reason. I thought I noticed some extra gunk on your bread knife this time. Was that confirmation bias or was that the case? It's pretty clear that high gluten flour plus the Full Proof method will produce some wild open crumb. But how does it stack up flavor-wise against a lower gluten and perhaps slightly more closed loaf? Something to explore. I am still trying to figure out what to get after I make it through my current bag of CM Artisan Baker's Craft flour.
- The autolyse. It seems to me that a three or four hour autolyse is not necessary with a formula that is 90% white bread flour. It absorbs water very quickly, which I think is why Chef Robertson doesn't bother with anything longer than 40 minutes in the original recipe. Have you played around with different autolyse times with your loaf #3 method? If so, what have you found? Is there a point of diminishing returns?
- I have found, like you mention in your video, that as the dough nears completion during bulking, stretch and folds can do more harm than good. I make a conscious effort to transition from stretching and folding to just folding or gently agitating as I go through the bulk and the dough nears completion. For me it becomes more about moving the dough around to equalize temperature and ensure even fermentation across the dough without stretching it or degassing it at all. I find the bulking vessel can make a big difference here. I have several of the cambros from the book, but I really don't like using them. I have the 2L measuring cup you often use, and I have a 4L glass bowl that is usually my go-to because its wall has a fairly wide angle. Given, I typically do 1kg flour weight. As you mention in the videos, that means I can't accurately measure rise. But I (hopefully) have developed a good feel for when the dough is ready without knowing when it has risen precisely the right amount. Nice doming along the edge of the bowl, lots of wiggle and jiggle, some bubbles on top (depending on bread flour content - whole wheat doesn't bubble as much for me), the rightish amount of elapsed time at the correct dough temperature, and some rise from my initial mark on the side of the bowl. Regardless, having a wider vessel lets me get my hand into the side of the dough more gently, and without degassing it or overworking it, especially near the end. But I have absolutely produced a healthy grip of well-fermented, closed crumb loaves of bread because I just had to get in there and keep doing stretch and folds. I'll admit it. I might be a stretch and fold-aholic.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback. Lots of great info and questions here.
1) When I'm not making videos, I still like the plain Tartine Country Loaf. I eat half a loaf the day I bake, then eat toast until I run out, then bake again. I largely follow the 'Loaf 2" method now and keep experimenting with longer proofing times. Still trying to find that sweet spot. When not baking on video, I tend to stretch out all the times and do a bit more relaxed schedule. I've made Maurizio Leo's seeded loaf once with not great success. I'd like to move into higher whole grain %'s and a nice seeded loaf.
2) Where do I go from here? I have a few more ideas I want to explore for experiments. I have three different types of flour from Central Milling, so I'll probably do a flour comparison. Then I'd like to start a series of "Test Bakes" where I try out some recipes for the first time, while recording, as a beginner would read the recipe, and see what happens. I think this would be fun and informative (maybe also some bake-offs between popular recipes). I'm not a big fan of "add-ins" but I know a lot of people like these, so I'll probably do a couple add-in recipes. I'm also doing some experiments on proofing time/temperatures, so I'd like to do a definitive video on that topic.
3) Higher protein/gluten flour - The flour is much more forgiving and very difficult to screw up. It just is so much easier to handle. But the crumb is a little chewier. It is no more gummy than before (I often get residue on my knife), but just noticeably chewier. And when toasted, it is not a light and crispy. I also have a bag of the Artistan Bakers Craft and Artisan Bakers Craft Plus that I'm planning to try out. My gut tells me that a 50/50 mix of the high gluten flour with the ABC or similar might work out great.
4) I think a 1-hour autolyse (with low % whole grain) is sufficient. 40 minutes (per Tartine) is a little short compared to what I saw with the longer autolyse. But this also depends how much handling you want to do in BF.
5) This video was really the first time I was able to compare different handling techniques (coil fold, S&F, etc.). I believe the handling in bulk fermentation is critically important and a key link in the chain of the dough from start to finish. I need to do more experimentation and research on this topic.
Thank you for the feedback and for your thoughtful reply and great questions.

[@davidryangrossman]

​@@thesourdoughjourneyRe: add-ins, I wasn't a big fan either. Then my wife requested/demanded the olive loaf and the polenta loaf (with some distinct interpretation/changes to the printed recipe after a couple of disastrous attempts) from Tartine 1. Bread is usually a supporting character in most meals, but those two may change your mind. They could easily be the center of a light lunch or dinner with some good cheese and cured meat. I've also done a loaf with toasted pecans, black mission figs and some crushed toasted fennel seeds, and that was a mini-revelation as well. I've also become a big fan of adding raw or very lightly toasted wheat germ, at between 3 and 7 percent total flour weight, for flavor and nutrition. I also want to commend the rye loaf to you. That has become my go-to bread that I try to always keep on hand. If you are into rye, I think Chef Robertson nailed the percentages on that one.

[@taceyrosolowski7793]

I watched the entire series and it was great. After parts 1 and 2, I did my own experiment. I work a lot with heritages grains, some of which have gluten that simply doesn't hold its shape as well as standard bread flour. I love Sonora, for example, which is very difficult to work with. I decided to try a 50/50 mix with bread flour and give it a 3 hour true autolyse. The gluten development was amazing. I was making a focaccia, so it wasn't required to stand up particularly high, but the dough was sitting high and had much better rise and crumb than when I last tried this mix. So, thanks for the inspiration and knowledge.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you! And thanks for the feedback.

[@wasupwas]

Great series, I'm glad you mentioned it in your other comment. Learned a lot. Loaf #3 all day everyday!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback. Everything really came together for me in this series.

[@nicolalb695]

Tom, thank you so much for all your videos. I have learnt so much from you! You explain things so well. My sourdough baking has already shown improvements although I still have a very long way to go to get my loaves to stand next to yours!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you so much for the feedback. Good luck with your baking. Your baking will improve quickly as you master the basic techniques.

[@everseeking60]

Magnificent. You are going to be a master sourdough baker for sure. Can not wait for what you will try next....

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you so much for the feedback.

[@philipmarrie5696]

I started my journey with Tartine and Vanessa Kimbell more than 10 years ago and highly recommend both authors. Really enjoyed watching this five part video series. I always learn something new from watching and reading, and your series here was fun and informative. I have a bad habit of over handling both my pre shaping and my final shaping, and I like watching how you gently did both shapings without over doing it and still getting tension. My preference is the crumb of loaf #1. While its fun to see how wild and open you can get the crumb, I prefer my peanut butter not to drain through my toast, or my sandwhich toppings. If you want wild crust make Pan De Cristal sometime. Do you ever add a small percentage of diastatic malt powder to any of your breads?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. I have recently started adding some diastatic malt powder. I like the results.

[@Cindy-zs1wd]

I really enjoy your videos and this series was perfect! I took pictures of your comparison charts and will be following one of the three methods the next time I bake. I’ve been playing with sourdough for a few months now and I am in search of my perfect loaf. Hopefully one of these methods will bring me closer to my goal. Thank you for sharing! I look forward to more!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback!

[@mohiniaswani8571]

Excellent video. Lovely presentation. I thoroughly enjoyed. Thanks.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Many thanks!

[@moondancedude]

Great job Tom, it is an art so keep up the artistry and the quest. I’d chose loaf #2 as my perfect loaf🤜🏻🤛🏻

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you! I was also very happy with loaf #2.

[@DANVIIL]

What a super series, thank you! I was rooting for #3, the James Dean of these 3 loaves, but I gotta go with #2. I'm more of a fan of a crumb that doesn't allow my butter to drip onto my beard.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback. I really appreciate it. I also had high hopes for #3 but it just didn’t hang together.

[@eddyed8135]

I too am a Sourdough enthusiasts, to a point where to took up a "start-up" bakery, I experimented alot.
Here's some tips after 8 months in.
1)Autolyse is overrated, UNLESS you are milling your own flour or some special blend that is mill from a company.
2)You can actually do a straight mix with salt in, yes it might take longer to ferment after you final shape before it enters retardation.
3)Scoring, sharp razor, quick, sharp and decisive cut @ 45° always result in a good ear.
4)Seal environment and powerful steam, if you are using Dutch oven then you are all good but if you don't own one it will result in a ugly bake at the end of the day
5) Temperature is important but adaptation is very important as well, I'm in a tropical country 29-32° on average, I do not use cold/ice water, everything is still room temperature, I just adapt to it until I find the sweet spot.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback and guidance!

[@11219tt]

Do you have an equipment list i can look at?
Would love to know the model of thermometers you use for all steps. And other stuff too

[@thesourdoughjourney]

The thermometer is a ThermaPen MK4. All of my equipment is shown in the video “Tools of the Trade for the Sourdough Baker. Found on this channel. I think the only new equipment I am using since that video is the red Lodge Dutch Oven (7qt). Please let me know if you have any other questions.

[@chezheba6825]

Thanks a lot .

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks for watching.

[@Diego-gz1pl]

hey Tom! such an awesome work again!
im stuck in average looking loaves...... im going to try developing gluten in an early stage,
thanks for the vids
cheers from uruguay!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback. I also saw improvement when I upgraded my flour to higher protein bread flour.

[@nunsandcanssailingadventur9951]

As i said before, these are SUPERB videos. Next up - mixing things into the loaves? When/where in the process is the best place, and does this change with ingredients? Compare adding seeds, vs nuts, vs dried fruits/cheese etc, maybe?. I.E. if we follow the Tartine recipe with a two loaf yield and we want one loaf with nuts, and one loaf with cheese - where / how in the process does the single dough mass become individual bulk ferment entities with the introduction of additional ingredients, etc. Lots of possibilities. Thank you Tom and Susan for letting us into your home!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback! We really appreciate it.
Great idea re: multiple loaves with different mix-ins. I am also starting a series of "Test Bakes" where I will look at some other interesting loaves outside of Tartine.

[@klaskristian1]

I bake my loafs very dark. Some people would say that they are almost burned but i like them that way. But that is just a matter of taste
Very nice looking crumb. I have never got that open crumb. I get open crumb mut much tighter. They taste very good though, so i am ok with that

[@thesourdoughjourney]

I also like the crust a bit darker but my wife does not. And we share our loaves.

[@klaskristian1]

@@thesourdoughjourney ahh, ok! Yes one have too adapt. My girlfriend likes lighter too. She also dont like hard crust. But i do. So i make them little lighter sometimes

[@BenGadBakingCo]

BRAVO!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for watching!

[@kenkwm]

Thank you for this wonderful series, Tom. I can’t imagine the amount of work and planning that went into it. Couple of questions for you: have you been happy with the Central Milling flour, and which one do you use? There’s a baking supply center near me that sells it, so I thought I’d try some. And have you ever baked with Ken Forkish’s book “Flour, Water, Salt, Yeast”? He’s a wonderful artisan baker from Portland, and I’ve made a number of his breads, in addition to the Tartine bread. It would be interesting to see you compare the two, in terms of method and final product. Ken also has some wonderful yeasted breads, and I often enjoy his poolish and biga loaves. I’m sure many people would love to see you work your magic on quality yeasted breads too. Thanks again for all your amazing work Tom!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback! This series was some of my best work of 2020.
I generally use a 50/50 mix of Central Milling High Mountain Hi Gluten and Artisan Bakers Craft -Plus. The High Mountain alone is a little too chewy for me. I’ve tried many of the other Central Milling flours, but for my “bread flour” I prefer that blend.
I have Forkish’s book and have made his country blonde recipe. His process is quite different than Tartine because it uses a much cooler and longer bulk fermentation process. I did some fascinating analysis of the difference in bulk fermentation temperatures in Episode 8 of my When is Bulk Fermentation Done series. This was based on my experience with Forkish’s approach. I’ve been doing some experiments with minimal handling, overnight loaves at cool bulk fermentation temperatures and will make a video on this in the coming months.
I’ve made a few poolish recipes from the King Arthur website and a few hybrid baguette recipes. I generally have not done 100% commercial yeasted loaves.
Thanks again for the feedback. I appreciate it.

[@kenkwm]

@@thesourdoughjourney Thanks for the flour tip - I'll try that! I'm still amazed at the size and spring of the loaves you baked with only 333g of dough... Another question for you Tom: I'm firmly in the camp of those who prefer a somewhat less open crumb, so that that my morning toast has a smooth runway for the butter. Have any of your experiments led you to a process which creates a relatively dense (closed) crumb, while still allowing for plenty of oven spring?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Yes! Check out this video. You can get a really beautiful crumb by pushing the bulk fermentation slightly longer.
I tend to prefer the slightly tighter crumb you’ll see in loaves #1 and #2 of this experiment. ua-cam.com/video/y9J_-P7rLFQ/v-deo.html

[@kenkwm]

I never would have expected the crumb you got in loaf 1 - thanks so much for the tip!

[@klaskristian1]

Another thing i have thought about is the poketest. I have hard time to understand why a good proofed loaf would leave a dent that very slowly refills. A underproofed loaf leaves a dent that emediatly refills, and an overproofed loaf leaves a dent that doesnt fill in. I know this is the case, but in my way of thinking, a dough full of gas, AKA a wellproofed loaf should leave a dent that quickly fills in. I compare it to a ballon. A ballon full of gas dont leave a dent that slowly fills in. It fills in emideatly.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

A “fully proofed”, loaf is actually a bit oveproofed, relatively speaking. The dough is right on the edge of breaking down,

[@klaskristian1]

@@thesourdoughjourney ahh, so you mean thats why the dent slowly recovers, cos the gluten network is getting weaker, butthe gas pushing on? Well that makes sense. Thanx for clearing that out

[@thesourdoughjourney]

@@klaskristian1 Yes. That's how I would describe it. A "fully proofed" loaf is much closer to the edge than we might want to think. But that is where the magic happens.

[@barrychambers4047]

Great job with the series Tom! Thank you.
When I watch a lot of videos from some of these European sourdough home bakers, one thing I've come to realize, they are most often working with much higher proteins than what is available to us here in the states. It seems, they are very typically working with 14 and even 15% protein levels. Maybe that is one of our real hinderances when it comes to baking for us. Do you think, farmers just can't grow as good of wheat here? I think it may be more about profit. I know we can order a 4 lb bag of vital wheat gluten for about $25-$30 and then pump it up to match these European's store bought flours. So, where do they get all of this extra gluten? Of course, they extract it from their flour, and then are happy to sell us the gluten. But, it cost a lot extra, and is the flour even the same once we try to protein it up? It really makes me wonder.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. That is a good question. I’m starting to experiment with different flour blends to see if I can come up with some general guidance on that. I’ve used very high protein flour and while it makes beautiful looking loaves, the crumb is quite chewy.

[@DynamicJon]

So i tend to use the King Arthur organic stuff and I can never get that super open crumb, I've been working on the shaping, tight, loose, decent window panes etc but still not very open. i get a nice crumb, with 'opennness' very evenly spaced out but small. Don't get me wrong its easy to make a sandwich out of it without the mayo falling through BUT I'm really looking to hone it in. Because I live in SoCal the weather has been hot and my kitchen in particular stays around 82-84. My dough tends to hang out in that range, fermenting pretty fast. I tend to get more than 20-30% rise and I wonder if i am perhaps over-fermenting.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

It is definitely possible at that temperature range. I’d suggest cutting off bulk fermentation at 25-30% as an experiment to see if that helps open thing up. I’ve also had mixed results with the King Arthur Organic Bread flour recently and have started using the KA non-organic bread flour with better results. With the pandemic flour shortage, the KA organic Bread flour has been inconsistent.

[@carmenevans321]

Thank you very much for these videos. I have a bit more hop now. I bake each weekend and so far the loaves I’ve gotten are dense and gummy. They taste ok, but the texture is all wrong. I will try again.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. Good luck.

[@gnawbabygnaw]

Wow!!! Thank You!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you.

[@gnawbabygnaw]

I watched all five parts in the series. After all the preparation yesterday, this morning I baked THEE biggest loaves I’ve ever made. I have yet to cut into them but wanted to say Thanks while I’m waiting for them to cool enough to see what the inside is like. I can tell it’s gonna be Sweet. Thank You again. I learned several things that made the difference! 🤙😊

[@thesourdoughjourney]

@@gnawbabygnaw Thanks for the feedback. I really appreciate it. Also check out my new website at thesourdoughjourney.com

[@gnawbabygnaw]

You’re very welcome. I started making Sourdough when Covid hit. Every time I thought or think I’ve got it figured out, the next one humbles me again. You’ve given me some ammo that I really needed. I’ll definitely check out the new site! 🤙☺️

[@jpc5357]

I was going to ask about how long you can proof in the fridge and you answered it--all the best from Chicago!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. Yes, I’ve done up to 5 days in the fridge with no issue.

[@jpc5357]

@@thesourdoughjourney Results after ~36 Hours pretty much the same, but I had very large blisters.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

@@jpc5357 I have seen this as well. Moisture and sugars come to the surface of the loaf the longer it sits in the refrigerator. I also saw the crust get a little thinner with each successive day in the fridge.

[@giacomoariani3223]

Beautiful bread, Tom! I finally got around watching this very nice video series. You really put a lot of work and thought into this, and it shows. Are you also on Instagram? If not, you should definitely consider joining the sourdough community there. It's large and growing, and wonderful. You could be (or perhaps already are) the next Maurizio/Kristen/Trevor for some people out there. Cheers!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you so much for the feedback. I really appreciate it. I am on Instagram but not very active yet. I will see you there soon!

[@giacomoariani3223]

@@thesourdoughjourney Great! When you get there, if you like, you can find me as bread.by.bread

[@elindstrom3850]

Tom …. I am a beginner baker and appreciate your insightful videos. Question: for my first Tartine attempt would you recommend sticking with your loaf method #1 or #2 using the coil folds? Thank you

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Loaf #2.

[@scottphillips4435]

Thanks so much for these videos and the wealth of information they provide. In these loaves, did you create and use the leaven as described in the Tartine book or are you just using your ripe starter? Have you ever just used your ripe starter and if so, what were the results?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for the feedback. Yes, I create the overnight leaven at a low temperature (it was low 70s F so I shortened the time a bit). I've also made it with ripe starter and it works fine. I believe the overnight leaven version is more looking toward a flavor (less acidic), vs. the basic rise of the dough.

[@doreenwebb557]

What stage of the daily feeding routine is the best time for using the starter in baking?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Usually around when it peaks. Prior to peak it is considered to be a “young” starter which will still rise the loaf but be less sour. Post-peak the acidity level rises which slows down yeast production. But they’re is a pretty wide window. As long as it is not really past peak and smelling acidic it is OK. But around peak is best.

[@rickardkarlsson4437]

Thank you for an amazing video series. Enjoyed every minute of it and learned a lot! Can I buy the flour you use somewhere in the Cleveland area, or did you order it online?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you! I ordered it online from Central Milling Company, and they charge for shipping, but I splurge on it from time to time.
I was using King Arthur bread flour but with the recent flour shortage the quality has deteriorated and I had a few bad bags from King Arthur.
Central Milling also sells a bread flour called Artisan Bakers Craft. It has a lower protein % but also popular among sourdough bakers.
Thanks again for the feedback.

[@Cunuck100]

@@thesourdoughjourney To increase the protein (Gluten) content of your flours you can add Vital Wheat Gluten, which works great! and Thanks for another great video series Tom!

[@willfithian3732]

Hello Tom! Thanks for this great series. I have a question for you. I am in search of your Loaf #2 results on a consistent basis. I plan to follow this method to the T in my next few bakes. My question to you is - if one were to follow the Loaf #2 method using the full 1000g Tartine recipe, how and when would one divide the dough down into two loaves? How would that affect the process? Would that theoretically change the shaping process? Would love to hear your thoughts. Thanks again!

[@willfithian3732]

Also - would you say that the Loaf #2 method is one that you've continued using (based on your perceived happiness with that particular result) and stands up as a regular method of use?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Yes. My current methods are largely based on Loaf #2.
For a double batch you would simply divide the dough before preshaping. I show this in some of my other videos.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks. See reply below.

[@shakumu4850]

First of all, thank you for your work and passion, i learned A LOT! I do have a question, i don't know if this will reach you as this series is 3 years old, but I'll ask anyway: For the leaven i do need to use my starter while it's at its peak. So i basically have to time my feeding schedule so it reaches peak in the evening so i can make my leaven? or am i missing something? thanks so much

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Yes, it is always best to use your starter and leaven at peak. In the Tartine method calls for a “young” starter be used before it peaks. But I’ve used it as it is peaking with pretty good results. If your starter or leaven is peaking too early, put it in the fridge. You can use a peaking starter or leaven for about 12 hours if you refrigerate it.
Also,if your starter is peaking too early, for example if you feed it in the morning and go to work. Feed it in the a.m., and put the jar in a bowl of ice. It will take about 4 hours for the ice to melt. Or is just like feeding it a noon. It is like a delayed start feeding.

[@shakumu4850]

@@thesourdoughjourney wow, thank you so much for the fast reply, super helpful and awesome tip with the ice! Will try that out!

[@shirleywodzenski4791]

Thank you so much for everything your doing. It’s so helpful. This last loaf I did do what your suggesting in this episode. I left mine to proof on the counter for 90 minutes. Then into fridge for 24 hr. But still I’m not getting a proof that I’m wanting. Should I go longer?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

That seems like a long time but if you are not overproofing you can always go longer. At some point it may be other factors like your flour or starter. But I always suggest pushing the proofing longer and longer until you find that point right before it overproofs.

[@shirleywodzenski4791]

Yes it was a long time of proofing at room Temperature . As I look at my loafs they have the same appearance of underproofing. So what now? Maybe my room temperature was too cool. I usually have it around 78. I’ll keep working. I put fennel seeds on the outside, but I don’t like it at all. Won’t be doing that again.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

@@shirleywodzenski4791 I use my oven with the light on for bulk fermentation. It usually takes about 4.5 hours to bulk ferment at 80F. Then I do another 30-60 minutes on the countertop after shaping, before going into the fridge. Also, it's important to measure the dough temperature (with a probe thermometer during bulk fermentation), not just room temperature.

[@carolcapper20]

hi tom. i rewatched all 5 of these videos today. i don't think i'd seen all of them before in their entirety. now i'm dying to know what made the most impact on the crumb...working the dough more up front or the longer proof before going into the fridge. i assume that you've had time to bake a lot more loaves since then. any new insights? carol

[@thesourdoughjourney]

I believe it was a combination of both. I definitely do more hand mixing up front now with consistently good results. The additional proofing at the end of shaping is really dependent on how the dough looks when I shape it. It is not as formulaic unfortunately. I keep pushing for longer bulk fermentation than I think is wise and have not overproofed yet. But I also have not baked that many “standard” bakes since completing this series. I’m working on a new series with bulk fermentation at wildly different temperatures (cold and hot) right now. It will also provide some guidance on how to dial in bulk fermentation more precisely at different temperatures, which may also help answer above questions.

[@carolcapper20]

@@thesourdoughjourney i just tried the rubaud method of mixing, which i learned from watching trevor. i just bought his book a couple days ago. i am about halfway through it, but already he has answered a lot of questions i have had. and he mixes a looooong time. but i tried it with a 50% whole wheat loaf, which was a one off for me. so i can't wait to try it with my normal recipe, which i know inside and out. but i won't be able to do the counter proof before the cold retard i don't think unless i change my starter amount. i'm usually having to rush to get my loaves in the fridge without overproofing, so i have never really left it on the counter for long after shaping. for me, the cooler weather should allow me a little more time to experiment. anyway, looking forward to your next series. thanks!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

If your dough is fully proofed after shaping, no need for countertop proof. I think my starter is still weaker then average, so my bulk fermentation times tend to,run longer than others. I’m thinking of building a new starter to see if I can strengthen it.

[@joelkorotzer8806]

Hi Tom,
I'm getting ready to switch from baking on a stone to a dutch oven. I see you are using enameled ovens. I read that there is concern re the enamel cracking during pre heating. Is that true? If I go with cast iron instead, you mentioned in a previous video that the loaves tend to burn on the bottom in these pans. You suggested placing baking tray(s) under the pan. Are they positioned directly under the pan or on the shelf below? Lastly, what size pan are you using for your batards? Sorry for all the questions. Just want to get it right from the beginning. As always, I love your scientific approach.
Joel

[@thesourdoughjourney]

I’ve used all kinds. I prefer enameled. One of mine has small cracks one does not. I also have plain cast iron which works fine. And I have a nonstick cast iron that also works well. I’d suggest a low cost plain cast iron Dutch oven first. The lodge combo cooker is $35 and lots of people like it. But it won’t fit batards. For full sized batards I have a large oval enameled Lodge Dutch oven (7qt). I also have a smaller oval cast iron pan for smaller batards. If you are making large batards that kind of forces you into a few limited options.
The sheet goes in a separate rack below the rack with the DO in it. You want to create an air gap / thermal break.
I think the small cracks in the enamel are just from heavy use, not preheating. I think the preheating concerns are overblown. That warning is for people who would preheat the DO then dump cold liquid into it which could thermal shock and crack the DO. This is virtually impossible by dropping a loaf of dough in it.
Good luck. Let me know what you decide.

[@joelkorotzer8806]

Thanks for the fast reply Tom and for the information on the DOs. I'ver narrowed them down to either the 5 qt Lodge cast iron DO or the 6qt Lodge enameled DO. The 5qt has a bottom diameter of about 7 inches. Is that wide enough for a Tartine boule?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Yes. I use a 5qt Dutch oven for my boules. Same size across the bottom.

[@titsik]

Great lessons. now I'm more confused

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. Keep working at it and try changing one thing at a time. Some of my other videos do a better job of focusing on changing one variable.

[@NL-001]

I guess that you have a background in art. The way you explain creating a bread gives me this impression. If so, shake hands.....

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you. I am a musician and have many interests in the arts.

[@flowerbomb333]

@@thesourdoughjourney Hmm. I would have imagined your background to be in chemistry professor, statistician, engineering, etc. But, now I can see how your music training has influenced your bread making. Well done

[@louiseallen2745]

How can I have the chart with the 3 breads? thanks

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Email me at [e-mail]

[@wagnercruise4767]

Is there a simple answer for how to make the war in the bread? My bread is awesome but the ear doesn’t happen and I don’t have a Dutch oven yet

[@thesourdoughjourney]

There is no simple answer, but it is very difficult without a Dutch oven. Here is some helpful info. thesourdoughjourney.com/the-secrets-of-great-ovenspring/

[@wagnercruise4767]

@@thesourdoughjourney hey! You won’t believe but thanks to you I made one perfect with a big ear. But what I did was baking with water in a tray and 460F. It turned out perfect!!!

[@gigalulmansur]

Do you ever think you'll try other recipes on this channel?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

The first rule of sourdough is “pick one recipe and stick with it until you master it.” I’m getting close. Stay tuned.

[@mkmlls]

Does the probe release too much steam?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

No.

[@Franzosenkoenig]

I suggest you to score in a faster movement for a better cut

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thanks. I will give that a try.

[@shirleywodzenski4791]

Very frustrated here. Again my loaves aren’t getting up there. I THOUGHT THEY LOOKED PROOFED NICELY, BUT when placed into fridge they deflated some. Not too bad but no better than the Last ones. A bit discouraged!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

The loaves will usually deflate when they go into the fridge because the cold air shrinks the mass of gasses in the dough.
My dough never rises in the fridge and usually flattens out somewhat.
You can also message me directly on Facebook.

[@shirleywodzenski4791]

The Sourdough Journey
Hey there, is this where I can get help from you about the tartine sourdough?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Shirley Wodzenski I sent you a message on Facebook Messenger.

[@gabrielzfreitas]

Let me ask you: What is the temperature of your kitchen?

[@thesourdoughjourney]

It was 74F / 23.3C throughout this recording.

[@michaelsallinger193]

Not too long ago I remember watching another video where the degassed dough ended up with more open pockets. Do you think it’s a coincidence or possibly something to it? Maybe I’ll try being less gentle on my next shaping and see what happens.
ua-cam.com/video/L95xJ_3E3Xc/v-deo.html

[@thesourdoughjourney]

The big pockets are from the longer bench rest after shaping, before fridge. If you aggressively degas in shaping, it makes sense to let it open up a bit after shaping. But it’s the rest that causes the pockets, not the degassing.

[@michaelsallinger193]

@@thesourdoughjourney 🙏🏻 I understand! As you mentioned, there are so many variables (and myths) in this art, and my deep curiosity wants to understand the effect of every single variable altered. I’m used to myths though…..so much of it and pseudoscience spread in the massage & bodywork industry and especially in Sedona. Can’t escape it. Thank you, as always, for being the beacon of truth.

[@N9524Q]

I just watched the whole thing! what does it really. prove? There are so many ways and variables? The goals is; To produce an enjoyable loaf of bread. Commercial bakeries that are trying to produce an artesian style loaf fight variables every day as the conditions change.
Over many many years I have made several thousand loaves.
What I have learned. Find a routine that works and try not to change too many things at once. Let your success drive you methodology. 😁

[@thesourdoughjourney]

Thank you for watching. And thanks for the feedback.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

I have a dozen other videos that strictly employ the scientific method. This video was a departure from that approach to demonstrate three different "baking styles" and was not really trying to prove anything other than the myriad different decisions and techniques that impact the outcome of a loaf. People have different learning styles. Some people learn just by watching other people bake rather than being "told what to do" or by following a very scientific approach. This is a video was intended for those types of learners.

[@thesourdoughjourney]

@A B If this was intended to be a scientific study I really picked a horrible name for the video! :)

[@marikamando]

I have learned so much from these videos. It proves you can decide to develop gluten in the beginning or throughout bull fermentation. You need to adjust your preshaping and final shaping accordingly. You can get different crumb based on what you do. I love to see all little changes and their impacts!

[@thesourdoughjourney]

@@marikamando Thank you.