Regarding DS2 not having a lord of cinder being around the first flame, the way I see it is that Vendrick walked away after defeating the previous lord of cinder, then rotted away in the Undead Crypt. This theory of mine is strengthened by the fact the first flame is sealed away with golems Vendrick created as well as the Throne Watcher and Throne Defender being put there. DS2 lore would have been tightened up if there was an armor set with a description saying it belonged to the previous lord of cinder.
that... isnt true vendrick only reached the throne, and as we can see by bonfire flames still burning, undeath still plaguing the world of man and the sun bathing the world in its sunlight, Fire still is around, Ds2 *does* have a Lord of Cinder, but none from its *setting* , no one in Ds2 became Lord of Cinder, Aldia mentions the 3 DLC kings that *could* have become Lords if they saught the throne, Vendrick was the closest, but he wasnt a suitable vessel according to his JPN soul's description in SOTFS, then, who is the Lord of Cinder? Well, the only person that we know that linked the fire and that we know that is from before the setting of Ds2 is... us! The chosen undead! We fight ourselves when we take the throne and use it to reach the kiln in the depths of Drangleic Regarding the watcher, defender and golems, the golems were made after the Giant's invasion Vendrick did when he collected their souls, he then used them to build Drangleic Castle and excavate the throne of want preserved, not created, *preserved* by most likely the ancient civilization of Heide, and the Watcher and Defender are there in case Nashandra decides to go in and try to obtain the Great Soul linked to the First Flame (our soul from ds1) for herself, that is implicit thanks to the watchers dropping ring of the evil eye on NG+ 2, they are keeping an eye out if the evil Queen Nashandra appears
A lot of these theories regarding the firstborn run under the assumption that Gwyn's tomb was constructed by Gwyns children after Gwyn already linked the fire. Personally I always assumed it was different: my impression was that Gwyn constructed his own tomb, choosing it as the place of his eventual death back when it was the uncontested era of the Age of Fire. At the time he never considered that he would have to leave on a journey where he would sacrifice himself, and the tomb ended up becoming empty because it served no purpose.
I really hope they respond to you here. There are a ton of assumptions that Lokey operates under, many of them unsubstantiated. Pharaohs constructed there own tombs, so you have that going for you. We have discussed some of the issues with souls analysis on our channel if you want to check it out here: ua-cam.com/video/upIbutGGlhs/v-deo.html
As far as I could see, the Firstborn being banished after Gwyn linking is the most prominent interpretation among the JPN community, also because the original word used for "inherited", describing how the Firstborn "inherited the light of the Sun", specifically refers to a passage of political power. The Firstborn was, even for a brief moment, the actual King of Anor Londo.
@@ClaymoreLinx Ive always been very ....impressed....that lokey has managed to uncover entire plot threads much longer and more intricate than the games entire script
@@humblegamer7876To be fair, the environment does a huge amount of work in Dark Souls storytelling compared to the script. So to me, the idea of there being plotlines you can trace in Dark Souls that actually do seem to exceed the length of the script, is not that controversial. Miyazaki himself said there are elements of design based on lore that he purposley didn't overtly include in the game, some of which is based on lore that may not be indicated in the game at all, and was just for Miyazaki to know as he storyboarded the game. So to me the idea that a theory could end up exploring a narrative longer than the script is not at all farfetched when you consider just how much can be done with environmental storytelling. Especially when it's being used in conjunction with a script.
Say what you will about Souls games, but you know something's a work of art when it inspires discussions to this degree of detail and complexity. This is awesome :)
I always said in Vaatis videos that Gwyn did not banish his firstborn. It was so obvious in the description of the sunlight blade miracle in ds1. No translation errors it shows that the firstborn was in anor londo after gwyn went to the kiln. Which means he didn't banish him as when the firstborn was banished gwyn was getting cooked. But still vaati continues to think that gwyn banished his son.
One thing to add: I believe the bell of awakening is quite simplistic of a concept more than people think. It less grandiose than what people think. It's not by ringing the bells you open the legendary path to anor londo no no no. The purpose of the bell of awakening is to wake up Frampt. But because he is such a deep sleeper they made 2 bells. By ringing them you would've awakened Frampt. Basically you are going on a mission to wake Frampt up from his sleep quite literally. You literally need to suffer so much just to wake a person up so that he does his job of lying to you. It's quite funny actually. They make you go all that because Frampt is a deep sleeper so they make you ring two bells and they paint it as this legendary journey.
I always found it funny how similar Gwyn is to Zeus in greek mythology (their disregard for humanity, their ambitions and greed, and the whole lightning thing). I feel like if Zeus knew that his reign was ending he would have done similar actions to prolong his rule.
There is a great interview with Ryan Morris who is the lead translator from Frognation and his collaboration with Miazaki in finalizing the script. People don't realize how close the collaboration between Frognation and Miazaki in person was. The game has never had a purely japanese version.
Doesn't the existence of slave knights mean that gwen and the gods knew of hollowing? They seem to have exploited it pretty well during the war against the dragons
"since miyazaki" please play some older fromsoft games (at least stuff like king's field 4 and shadow tower), this cryptic style of lore and storytelling has been their thing since day one. and those games are still good!
Figurehead. Always happens like that. Directors get way more credit then they should, because they have the resposibility of the project, but usually everyone on the team contribute to the project.
I’ve freshly stumbled upon this video and channel. Your guys’ vibe and duo instantly reminded me of Glidus and Alt Schwift X. They’re two Game of Thrones yters who collab often and like you also make long form content of my hyperfixations. Similar vibe. Diving head in, cheers!
@@shipwreckedonapopulatedisland I have the Armored Core Analysis and a mega video on Urban Exploraiton in games up on patreon right now and I'll be publishing at least one of them here in December :)
If the wormhole to the kiln wasn’t there do you think it would lead to the Ringed City? The hole Frampt goes down doesn’t seem to exactly correlate to direction maybe it’s an extension of the original idea for the statue being moved by Andre so maybe the RC is out of sight behind Anor Londo all the way back behind that mountain at the farthest reaches of the Yggdrasil branches? Since we can see the branches making the bedrock of the world above and ceiling from below ground perhaps that’s the case.
I don't know maybe I expected just something different. Some stuff Lokey says seems to me rather like an interpretation than are explained in the game. like humans spread across the land and delevoped white souls (because reasons mentioned in the video) and some other stuff where I like to have the sources for that
the whole world of dark souls is called the "world of man", and many characters we meet from those countries are human, and as we later came to learn in ds3, humans originally were in a single place, the ringed city. so at some point they were allowed to spread before humanity found the dark soul, the beings we know as "pygmy" would have needed to bear white souls (e.g soul of lost undead) in them to well, be alive. so when the dark soul was spreaded amongst the pygmy's clan, they came to share both a dark soul and a white soul in them. when the darksign was placed on man though, humanity had to rely on their white souls they had since the beginning i hope this helped! 😊
If you're going to have another lore discussion and Q&A I do propose a question. What are the distinctive differences between the age of dark after the end of fire ending and the usurper ending in DS3? This question is more about what differences they bring, as in why they're different from one another. Is this end of fire ending meant to be the end of hierarchical societies while the usurper ending is about you becoming the god of humans, a dark soul version of Gwyn?
I can give it a shot explaining this, but we have to start from the beginning. Dark Souls, and all Miyazaki's games, are characterized by the prominent themes of "yodomi" and "kegare", concepts which have their roots in Shinto mythology. "Kegare" can be translated as "impurity", "corruption", and similar. It's a natural reactions that occurs when something gets in contact with various source of "filth". It could be literal filth or more metaphorical, like death, rape, mestrual blood, stillbirth, ecc. "Yodomi" on the other hand can be translated as "stagnation". In Shinto, pools of stagnant water allows the "kegare" to take over, and impure beings like insect and other filthy invertebrates to proliferate in it. In Dark Souls specifically, the theme of stagnation is used in relation to Time. In JPN, Solaire never speaks about the time being convoluted: he says the flow of time is stagnant. In other words, the flow of time is like the flow of water in a river. Normally, water flows naturally from source to valley, but what happens if we add a dam in the middle? Gradually, water at source starts to arrive at the dam, catch up with the previous flow, and creates a pool: it stagnates. Bringing this to Time, it being stagnant means that events of the past slowly started to catch up to the present, intertwining to each other, due to its regular flow being blocked. This is why Solaire also states "heroes from centuries past" can appear right in front of us. But what is the dam who's blocking Time? As DSIII Repair description states, "Light is Time": the real reason time stagnation is tooking over, is that time itself can't flow without the light of First Flame. And as the Flame is fading, the flow of time is speeding down allowing the past to catch up. This bring us to the first answer: the Age of Dark in DSI is an age when the Fire faded for good, meaning time itself wouldn't really exist anymore. Past, present and future would be all at once as the stagnation of time would have took over complitely, and only beings of the Dark would've been able to exist in such state. But then, what has changed in DSIII? Short answer: the continous Linking of the Fire during countless age has worsened things to the immaginable. When Linking the Flame, you don't reset the world or start a brand-new-world: all you do is removing the dam, allowing time to flow correctly once again. BUT, you can't magically remove all the filthy spawns of kegare and stagnation that originated from it. And so, in many eons, kegare from all the eras accumulated to a point of no return. As the JPN DSIII Soapstone description states, not only time, but EVERYTHING in Lothric is stagnant. This includes Space, originating the Convergence of Lands which drift to the fading Flame epicenter. And includes the Dark Souls too: the JPN texts calls the gems in the Cathedral of Deep as the result of the stagnation of the Dark - meaning the true nature of the Deep itself is none other than a stagnant pool of Abysses, stacked one above the other from arriving to the present from different times. As the Dark Souls started to get stagnant, kegare found its way inside men. And as said before, kegare naturally brings the spawn of insects and other filthy invertebrates: which is why humans in the Ringed City turned in Locusts. With this state of things, the Age of Dark we sought in DSI is no longer possible: letting the Flame simply fade would mean letting the Dark stagnation to took over too. People would exists only in a state of eternal corruption, lingering in a giant pool of filthy, stagnant water: the Age of the Deep See forsaw by Aldritch. The only way to prevent this scenario and come to proper Age of Man, is for someone to usurp the dying flame by themselves, and use its Light to make the Dark inside humans to flow correctly once again - allowing the Lord of Hollows of moving in the immovable Deep, and world to breath once again.
So if I may, looking at what happens when humanity runs wild, I don’t blame Gwynn for fearing the dark. In the face of Serpents, abysses, the possible end of time…seriously what is the right choice here? The flaw when examining rulers and leaders in history is assuming they even get to approach the world with a solid morality. Choices NEED to be made. Sacrifices NEED to be made. There are no good guys when leading empires. Gwynn made a stand and planted his flag. Dragons suck. The Dark sucks. Living eternally as a mindless hollow sucks. Gwynn tried something different. Feared something worse and hoped for something better. Good guy? Bad Guy? Only anywhere near appropriate a distinction when taking for granted the world he helped build where such distinctions even exist. Good and evil are luxuries, not true definable elements of the world he came from. Allant is a villain. He destroyed his world based on his own nihilism. Gwynn made an attempt to create a resplendent world with an order that could be made sense of based on human values. He’s literally the guy who took his species from cave dwellers to city builders in his lifetime. It wasn’t all going to be pretty. There is no way to make ALL good choices even as a minor player on the stage of life. I feel sorry for Gwynn. He wasn’t always on his best behavior but really, fuck the natural order. It is not now nor ever was on the side of humanity.
well again you don't really know if the og humans would've been undead or hollow, from their talk it seemed more like they wouldn't have gone that way without the seal of fire? And the dragons don't seem too bad ngl. There's even one in ash lake who is super indifferent to you
He was manipulated into fearing the end of time or he's just a greedy bastard. Time wouldn't end. Just his rule or the state of the world. The cycle doesn't truly end until the conclusion of Ringed City. Think oroboros. If Gwyn did nothing humans would get the torch then they would die out and something else would arise. This would happen until another era similar to the intro of DS1. Or one could theorize whatever perished before Gwyn's time was what birthed the dragons. If Giants are coming from seeds and hollows eventually become tree like it's just natural to assume everything would just happen again. Not exactly the same, but very similar in flow of events.
Are there any other channels or videos that I should look at to do with Dark Souls 1 lore specifically that aren’t as well know like your Vaati or Undead Hollow ?
.75x playback speed is your friend here. Lokey sounds drunk but that's because they're talking so fast everything ends up slurred. Still the best way to hear what's being said though.
1. The only difference between Gwyn and, say, Solaire, is that Gwyn has a lord soul and Solaire has a dark soul. They otherwise have the same origins. 2. The curse of the undead is really, if you think about it, humans losing their souls and returning to what they were in the Age of Ancients. You die, lose your souls, and become hollow. That is the deviousness of Gwyn’s plan. Humans draw power from the dark, so as the fire fades, humans likely become immortal. But as the fire fades, the curse activates, causing them to lose their humanity, forcing them to continue the Age of Fire to stop themselves from all going hollow. 3. Gwyn 100% looks hollow when we encounter him, and there isn’t any reason as I established that he couldn’t become hollow as that is how he started. The mystery would be how he became hollow since we get his lord soul when we defeat him. However, we sometimes get humanities (dark souls) from hollow enemies when we defeat them, so I don’t know. The mechanics of souls cause me the greatest amount of confusion in the Dark Souls series. 4. How was Gwyn still alive after sacrificing himself to the First Flame? Did ringing the two bells resurrect him, like it resurrected some of the successful and failed Lords of Cinder in DS3? 5. I also question why Gwyn wouldn’t just let us kindle the First Flame if that’s his grand scheme, especially if he wasn’t hollow? Couldn’t he just let us kindle the First Flame and walk out of the kiln, ready to rule again now that someone took his place?
Haven't watched yet, but I'm curious to see if the true role of Lloyd in the narrative will come up. Edit: Interesting, I saw Lloyd as more of an usurper than an appointee.
Ah dang, I wish I got to ask Lokey/Aesir who they think exiled the Firstborn aka Nameless King? There’s a few answers that come to mind, but it’s crazy to think how long we accepted Gwyn as being the prime suspect.
According to the JPN descriptions, it was banished by "the Gods" in general. I guess nobody really liked what he was doing with Dragons, and he decided to left to avoid a civil war.
@@baltoy7460 Also, in JPN one of the primordial serpents (I've forgotten which) states that Gwyn entrusted his sons (male and plural, specifically. That is, nameless king and gwyndolin) with guiding mankind
huge fan of the channel but i kinda wish this was more organized/formatted better. wasn't familiar with Lokey other than the name and it's hard to follow his constant and sometimes unintelligible ramblings.
1:46:40 - Do we actually know this? It is glib and forceful statements like this that really hinder Lokey's credibility, not only is there nothing to corroborate that piece of the lore, but it is reasoned out post hoc. We'd love to discuss this with you though, I think having some push back would go pretty far. Nothing to discredit Aesir, he's not really here to challenge Lokey.
@@baltoy7460 No, no, I am talking about Lloyd becoming Allfather after Gwyn linked the flame. This is the point that Lokey reasons out post hoc, "it just makes sense."
@@ClaymoreLinx Oh, then I'm more uncertain. Now I don't remember all the JPN descriptions, but I do remember, while I analysing them, coming to the conclusion the Way of White was established sometimes around Gwyn linking the Flame [slightly before/after?], and Lloyd power being strictly associated to the Way of White. Do you remember if the WoW foundation is ever specifically linked to the appearence of the first Undead Curse? Maybe in some descriptions about Leeroy? Again it's ages since I don't revisit the lore, so I could be totally off here. Tomorrow/In the next days I'll try to find some actual textual evidence supporting/going against this assertion. Also, it probably comes natural to think that Gwyn was the "Chief God" during his reign, so there's that too.
What doesn't make sense about it? All Father is used most commonly in Norse myth for Odin as chief or leader of the Gods. Do you think Llyod would outrank Gwyn when he is still around?
@@Quirkus23 The explanation is improbable; the problem is there if no corroboration. Because of Havel's participation in the Way of White, it seems that it had to have existed before Gwyn left. This means that Llyod probably had his title concurrently with Gwyn's reign. I do not demonize Gwyn, so I'd have no problem with an explanation of him sharing power, King and Cardinal style.
This might be a silly misconception, but I always assumed that hollows were the "natural" state of humans before the age of fire? That they existed in a state of parity, neither alive nor dead; but that when the first flame brought about disparity, suddenly there was a hard division between what was alive and what was dead, and that the dark soul effectively gave them humanity and personhood? So when the the fire beginning to fade is a direct cause of the hollowing; that you suddenly have living, thinking beings starting to succumb to this collapse between life and death?and that it's not necessarily a direct result of Gwyn's actions, but something that when started happening reminded him that there were natural laws and forces far older and more powerful that even he couldn't hold back? I don't know! Again, it's very likely a misconception on my part, but I was always very attached to it and the sort of existential horror it sort of represented! Love the channel!! Extremely looking forward to the Armored Core videos!
many assume that the "age of fire" began when the first flame came to be, but in actuality it came to be according to the original JPN after the discovery of the Souls of Kings (Lord Souls). When first flame brought disparity, it brought souls, the power of disparity itself, and it brought life, which in consequence brings death, and the archdragons, who predated the first flame, were the first to be "cursed" with life. From then on, as we see with the giant skeletons which walk on four that bear a dragon-like face along with a small tail in the Giant Graveyard (tomb of giants) along with the head of a horned giant (yes, those mentioned in ds3) next to an archdragon, we can draw an evolutionary line. EVERY biological life came from the dragons. Archdragons -> horned giants -> giants -> gods (i like lokey's term for them, medials, since they are in between giants and humans often regarding size) -> humans/pygmies what makes one human is the dark soul within them that they bear, and the dark is the equivalent of space in dark souls since light is time, and since the dark soul is a soul of pure darkness, it doesnt have time, meaning, its bearers dont age, they are ageless immortals, just like undead. Due to the dark's nature to always consume (hence why its often associated with greed), the dark often rots the bodies of dark soul bearers, thus making them like corpses, and the "true" humans are the Hollows, those who bear *only* the soul which makes them human, their true self, their dark soul. But, due to King Gwyn's fear of the Dark and the potential humanity had (they were now at the top of the food chain and had a massive advantage against the gods), gwyn inflicted man with the most terrible curse, time. by giving man time via fire's light with the darksign, humanity had to rely on other white souls in order to build memories and so on, to make up their "self", souls that in the end are an imposed false self. This lack in soul not only made man look more like the medials in physical appearance (hence why human pretty and hollow ugly), but also stopped the dark within man to develop such a self, thus not growing beyond its nature to greedily consume. And due to this, when first flame goes to fade, so does the darksign's fire, and with this, the greedy dark within man is released, and one becomes a Hollow, they become bound to the Dark's nature to always consume, hence why they are soul-starved. Its more explained in detail in lokey's analyses on his blog and in his Abyssal Archive, a whole two volumes of books which analyse the whole of ds1 lore. it is really good and insightful, recommend you check it out! he has a discord btw, and who knows, we might even meet there (my name is RafaelBalbinus, discord username being rafabalbi)
I think part of the pushback you get on a lot of these topics is that what you're claiming, even with better translations, is just your interpretations of it, but you're often using absolutes and "this is fact" kind of language. And that has nothing to do with how Dark Souls does its storytelling, it's the same in other works even when you have the creator coming down and directly outright saying this, that, or the other thing. And that gets exacerbated when, as others have pointed out, you're also building several entire snowballing theories on unsubstantiated elements.
@@Quirkus23 let me rephrase it then: "You're rambling on about Lokey's fanfiction that has no actual evidence to it, when it does have something it is often blatantly contradicted by the game itself, treating the whole thing as gospel or some great revelation, and then dismissing anyone thinking something contrary to said fanfiction as just reading the game wrong."
@@NuclearSpring Seems like you got a lot wrapped up in this. I just think he has another cool perspective on a game I love. I don't think it's anything to get worked up about.
@@NuclearSpring While there are revelations to be gained by the translations, the analysis is a house of cards. Essentially there is a leap in almost every theory Lokey subscribes to, Gwyn is Evil, Seathe has a Soul, etc. I think the tone, using phrases like "of course," doesn't help either.
Was he supposed to respond "idk the game is vague about this" to every question for 3 hours? Yeah that's sounds like a good content to me, very interesting. Of course he's giving his point of view, with some parts much more explicitly supported than others, but that's how the dark souls' narrative is. You can't have concrete 100% confirmation of every single detail in these games, if that's what you are looking for than this game's lore is not for you
Honestly my first run in dark souls was in the end like that ,,ok so Gwyn is beaten up, so now what? Whaaat i can only to link the fire or not link the fire? But i dont whant do!!! This -censored- shaped snakes are lying they play 4d chess with us!!! Noooooo!" Xd then in ds2 i recived third option and be happy
3:03 lokeys answer to this question is funny. he really goes off-game-script, assumes a lot and it isnt just going of the translations script. yes things become very easy to understand if you start to write your own fanfic edit: okay that was mean.
Homie is doing shit tier damage in the gameplay footage as this video plays lol Is this on purpose? It's gotta be, right? I've never understood the allure of purposefully underleveling or not maxing out a BK weapon immediately, especially in DS1 where it's so easy to get twinkling titanite. But, I do respect the grindset mindset.
The Fire coming back after a temporary Dark Age is a symptom of how irreversibly Gwyn chained Fire to Dark, not the natural order. A perversion perpetuated by the subsequent lords of cinder extending the existence of the First Flame and thus the subjugation of Dark by Flame through the Dark Sign. Creating a cycle that wasn't meant to be, but that has lasted so long that it just won't end as if nature has been so bent and twisted towards this direction it can't untwist, making it so even if the Flame goes out for a while the smoldering "embers left to us by lords past" will eventually manage to reignite. Kaathe wasn't lying when he said the natural progression was meant to be The Age of Fire followed by The Age of Dark, after the Age of Ancients had run its course. irreversibly
I never liked the idea of the "medial". I like to think that gwyn is no different than the player character save that he has none of the humanity (dark soul) and the majority of the ambition (souls).
Gwyn was a hero. An obvious hero. The furtive pygmy screwed everything up when they abandoned their responsibility by fragmenting the dark soul. Gwyn made the best of a bad situation and sacrificed himself, not villainous behaviour. That's the "deeper" interperetation. The only characters who view him as a villain are Kaath and Aldia, and if you can't figure out that they aren't trustworthy then I can't help you.
Every Fromsoft game deals with the horrors which are unfurled when the order of the world is corrupted. In Dark Souls, this is stagnation. Who stagnated the world? Who created the firelinking system? the good guy?
You repeatedly claim that Gwyn wasn’t estranged from Nameless, but I find that claim pretty laughable given Nameless sided with the dragons against his own father.
The Line: "By sacrificing himself to link the fire, and commanding his children to shepherd the humans" Comes from: "だから奴は、火を継ぎ、 自らの息子たちに、人を率い、縛らせた" 息子たち is the word to highlight for the plural "sons". So it's a mistranslation which should've been: "By sacrificing himself to link the fire, and commanding his SONS to shepherd the humans" Gwyn gave this mission to his Sons (Nameless + Gwyndolin) then left for the kiln. The miracle which Namelss left behind on Gwyn's Tomb is another indicator of this.
Yet he was so kind as to marry his daughter to Seath. If he hated the dragons so much he would've killed him after the war. Plus the sunlight blade miracle in ds1 states that the firstborn left this miracle on the grave after gwyn went to the kiln. Meaning he was in anor londo until gwyn went to the kiln and then all the other gods sided with gwyndolin and banished the firstborn from anor londo
息子たち can mean sons plural. It can also mean son in singular + people around him. Like how laurence and associates doesn't mean two laurences but laurence and one or more allies. So he could see his son NK as the leader of the group his addressing and say musuko tachi without meaning two sons.
Hear me out. If Gwyn left his firstborn to rule wouldn't he been crowned Gwyn as well? Given we find him with Drakes and Dragonkind he obviously became disillusioned by everything. Crowned Gwyn. Got blamed for his father's actions. Got mad. Wrote his own name out of history and had the tomb built as well as abandoning his father's Sun Blade. My two cents.
This was pretty interesting and I liked the proper translations. Admittedly, there are a lot of things about the translation I do like better because they help enhance the narrative that much more, but it was still interesting to hear something closer to Miyazaki's actual intent.
![DARK SOULS • The Ultimate Analysis • [The History of From Software]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5h8YArGb_Jc/mqdefault.jpg)
![DARK SOULS • The Ultimate Analysis • [The History of From Software]](/img/tr.png)
This was a great video, absolutely love how passionate Lokey is about the content and Aesir steers the conversation with good questions. Loved it!
Glad you liked it! :)
Regarding DS2 not having a lord of cinder being around the first flame, the way I see it is that Vendrick walked away after defeating the previous lord of cinder, then rotted away in the Undead Crypt. This theory of mine is strengthened by the fact the first flame is sealed away with golems Vendrick created as well as the Throne Watcher and Throne Defender being put there. DS2 lore would have been tightened up if there was an armor set with a description saying it belonged to the previous lord of cinder.
that... isnt true
vendrick only reached the throne, and as we can see by bonfire flames still burning, undeath still plaguing the world of man and the sun bathing the world in its sunlight, Fire still is around, Ds2 *does* have a Lord of Cinder, but none from its *setting* , no one in Ds2 became Lord of Cinder, Aldia mentions the 3 DLC kings that *could* have become Lords if they saught the throne, Vendrick was the closest, but he wasnt a suitable vessel according to his JPN soul's description in SOTFS, then, who is the Lord of Cinder? Well, the only person that we know that linked the fire and that we know that is from before the setting of Ds2 is... us! The chosen undead! We fight ourselves when we take the throne and use it to reach the kiln in the depths of Drangleic
Regarding the watcher, defender and golems, the golems were made after the Giant's invasion Vendrick did when he collected their souls, he then used them to build Drangleic Castle and excavate the throne of want preserved, not created, *preserved* by most likely the ancient civilization of Heide, and the Watcher and Defender are there in case Nashandra decides to go in and try to obtain the Great Soul linked to the First Flame (our soul from ds1) for herself, that is implicit thanks to the watchers dropping ring of the evil eye on NG+ 2, they are keeping an eye out if the evil Queen Nashandra appears
Lords of cinder weren't a thing when ds2 has created, they were created in ds3
@@mr.moonthegoon4178 Gwyn is a Lord of Cinder, the first one. It's in his name when you fight him as he was originally Gwyn Lord of Sunlight.
Lokey's enthusiasm is highly contagious
Just when the thought occurs to you... "I wonder what Aesir's been working on..." BAM. 3 hours of lore, taking it all the way back to to the OGs.
Oooh, and I have more things coming 👀
(Armored Core.......)
Lokey has greatly improved his speaking skills. I'm impressed
My subscriptions page has been blessed with a 3 hour Lokey video
A lot of these theories regarding the firstborn run under the assumption that Gwyn's tomb was constructed by Gwyns children after Gwyn already linked the fire. Personally I always assumed it was different: my impression was that Gwyn constructed his own tomb, choosing it as the place of his eventual death back when it was the uncontested era of the Age of Fire. At the time he never considered that he would have to leave on a journey where he would sacrifice himself, and the tomb ended up becoming empty because it served no purpose.
I really hope they respond to you here. There are a ton of assumptions that Lokey operates under, many of them unsubstantiated. Pharaohs constructed there own tombs, so you have that going for you. We have discussed some of the issues with souls analysis on our channel if you want to check it out here: ua-cam.com/video/upIbutGGlhs/v-deo.html
As far as I could see, the Firstborn being banished after Gwyn linking is the most prominent interpretation among the JPN community, also because the original word used for "inherited", describing how the Firstborn "inherited the light of the Sun", specifically refers to a passage of political power. The Firstborn was, even for a brief moment, the actual King of Anor Londo.
@@ClaymoreLinx
Ive always been very ....impressed....that lokey has managed to uncover entire plot threads much longer and more intricate than the games entire script
@@humblegamer7876To be fair, the environment does a huge amount of work in Dark Souls storytelling compared to the script. So to me, the idea of there being plotlines you can trace in Dark Souls that actually do seem to exceed the length of the script, is not that controversial. Miyazaki himself said there are elements of design based on lore that he purposley didn't overtly include in the game, some of which is based on lore that may not be indicated in the game at all, and was just for Miyazaki to know as he storyboarded the game. So to me the idea that a theory could end up exploring a narrative longer than the script is not at all farfetched when you consider just how much can be done with environmental storytelling. Especially when it's being used in conjunction with a script.
@@ClaymoreLinx thank God I'm not the only one who notice that..
2:43:59 AUGH! LET HIM SPEAK, LOKEY! Damn, man! Dominated this conversation for three whole hours.
I love Izalith & New Londo lore; you both are delightful! Thank You!
:)
25:55 "Humans are said to uniquely have luck" paired with a clip of the pc falling off a ledge and dying
Maybe the dead are the lucky one 😔
@@AesirAesthetics better dead than becoming tree or something something
it was luck. Bad luck, but bad luck is still luck.
Say what you will about Souls games, but you know something's a work of art when it inspires discussions to this degree of detail and complexity. This is awesome :)
People hate on the souls series🤔
i'm about an hour and forty minutes in, and i'm just like... "Fuck, Lokey... Take a breath! Just let the man speak more then 3 sentences... Jeez..."
Damn low key you need to lay off the coffee LOL great video by the way you guys
Wow this is some amazing deep lore and really good perspectives. Really a must watch
Glad you enjoyed!
New subscriber here, been binging on your king's field content. Very enjoyable.
Welcome aboard, glad you're enjoying :)
I always said in Vaatis videos that Gwyn did not banish his firstborn. It was so obvious in the description of the sunlight blade miracle in ds1. No translation errors it shows that the firstborn was in anor londo after gwyn went to the kiln. Which means he didn't banish him as when the firstborn was banished gwyn was getting cooked. But still vaati continues to think that gwyn banished his son.
Logic can’t explain why Aesir’s videos are so good.
:)
Been looking forward to this for a long time! Thank yall for this important discussion
Enjoy! :D
two kings doing a video on the og king? be still my beating heart
bruh lokey keep sayin "bricked up"
One thing to add: I believe the bell of awakening is quite simplistic of a concept more than people think. It less grandiose than what people think. It's not by ringing the bells you open the legendary path to anor londo no no no. The purpose of the bell of awakening is to wake up Frampt. But because he is such a deep sleeper they made 2 bells. By ringing them you would've awakened Frampt. Basically you are going on a mission to wake Frampt up from his sleep quite literally. You literally need to suffer so much just to wake a person up so that he does his job of lying to you. It's quite funny actually. They make you go all that because Frampt is a deep sleeper so they make you ring two bells and they paint it as this legendary journey.
I wonder. I had similiar thoughts on my recent playthrough of DS1.
Or I heard it on some youtube video. not sure anymore
I always found it funny how similar Gwyn is to Zeus in greek mythology (their disregard for humanity, their ambitions and greed, and the whole lightning thing).
I feel like if Zeus knew that his reign was ending he would have done similar actions to prolong his rule.
Basically the God of War Greek Trilogy
Gwyn can never be 100% bad to me because why would a pure villain sacrifice themselves to prolong an age they would have no part in, with no rule
I mean if Hitler shot himself for nazi Germany he’d still be bad
There is a great interview with Ryan Morris who is the lead translator from Frognation and his collaboration with Miazaki in finalizing the script. People don't realize how close the collaboration between Frognation and Miazaki in person was. The game has never had a purely japanese version.
Doesn't the existence of slave knights mean that gwen and the gods knew of hollowing? They seem to have exploited it pretty well during the war against the dragons
So what happened to Lokeys episode with Sinclair abour gwyndolin??
When you know it's gonna be a banger before you even press play
:) enjoy!
Why is there a titanite demon in Anor Londo just chilling in that room?
It's pretty obvious tbh
@@zeropat0000 he's praising the sun
I totally lost track of the conversation when the Centipede Demon just NOPED right up into the ceiling at 2:19:56
Lol
"since miyazaki"
please play some older fromsoft games (at least stuff like king's field 4 and shadow tower), this cryptic style of lore and storytelling has been their thing since day one. and those games are still good!
Figurehead.
Always happens like that.
Directors get way more credit then they should, because they have the resposibility of the project, but usually everyone on the team contribute to the project.
I thought to myself "I am gonna watch a quick video while I have lunch"
Destiny had another plans
:D
I’ve freshly stumbled upon this video and channel. Your guys’ vibe and duo instantly reminded me of Glidus and Alt Schwift X. They’re two Game of Thrones yters who collab often and like you also make long form content of my hyperfixations. Similar vibe. Diving head in, cheers!
I love those guys.
Alt Shift Ex is almost as Dune obsessed as I am!
Where are these other podcasts with Lokey?
Fantastic video btw!
Search Sinclair Lore and Lokey and you should find them. Maybe someone will link the specific ones...
Here's a great one he did with SinclairLore recently ua-cam.com/video/JxOzdBZLT6M/v-deo.html
Lots of good Lokey videos on that channel :)
@@AesirAesthetics thank you, i look forward to whatever you have next!
@@shipwreckedonapopulatedisland I have the Armored Core Analysis and a mega video on Urban Exploraiton in games up on patreon right now and I'll be publishing at least one of them here in December :)
If the wormhole to the kiln wasn’t there do you think it would lead to the Ringed City? The hole Frampt goes down doesn’t seem to exactly correlate to direction maybe it’s an extension of the original idea for the statue being moved by Andre so maybe the RC is out of sight behind Anor Londo all the way back behind that mountain at the farthest reaches of the Yggdrasil branches? Since we can see the branches making the bedrock of the world above and ceiling from below ground perhaps that’s the case.
Great video as always.
Been waiting for this!
Enjoy!
I don't know maybe I expected just something different. Some stuff Lokey says seems to me rather like an interpretation than are explained in the game. like humans spread across the land and delevoped white souls (because reasons mentioned in the video) and some other stuff where I like to have the sources for that
the whole world of dark souls is called the "world of man", and many characters we meet from those countries are human, and as we later came to learn in ds3, humans originally were in a single place, the ringed city. so at some point they were allowed to spread
before humanity found the dark soul, the beings we know as "pygmy" would have needed to bear white souls (e.g soul of lost undead) in them to well, be alive. so when the dark soul was spreaded amongst the pygmy's clan, they came to share both a dark soul and a white soul in them. when the darksign was placed on man though, humanity had to rely on their white souls they had since the beginning
i hope this helped! 😊
If you're going to have another lore discussion and Q&A I do propose a question. What are the distinctive differences between the age of dark after the end of fire ending and the usurper ending in DS3? This question is more about what differences they bring, as in why they're different from one another. Is this end of fire ending meant to be the end of hierarchical societies while the usurper ending is about you becoming the god of humans, a dark soul version of Gwyn?
I can give it a shot explaining this, but we have to start from the beginning.
Dark Souls, and all Miyazaki's games, are characterized by the prominent themes of "yodomi" and "kegare", concepts which have their roots in Shinto mythology.
"Kegare" can be translated as "impurity", "corruption", and similar. It's a natural reactions that occurs when something gets in contact with various source of "filth". It could be literal filth or more metaphorical, like death, rape, mestrual blood, stillbirth, ecc.
"Yodomi" on the other hand can be translated as "stagnation". In Shinto, pools of stagnant water allows the "kegare" to take over, and impure beings like insect and other filthy invertebrates to proliferate in it.
In Dark Souls specifically, the theme of stagnation is used in relation to Time. In JPN, Solaire never speaks about the time being convoluted: he says the flow of time is stagnant.
In other words, the flow of time is like the flow of water in a river.
Normally, water flows naturally from source to valley, but what happens if we add a dam in the middle? Gradually, water at source starts to arrive at the dam, catch up with the previous flow, and creates a pool: it stagnates.
Bringing this to Time, it being stagnant means that events of the past slowly started to catch up to the present, intertwining to each other, due to its regular flow being blocked. This is why Solaire also states "heroes from centuries past" can appear right in front of us.
But what is the dam who's blocking Time? As DSIII Repair description states, "Light is Time": the real reason time stagnation is tooking over, is that time itself can't flow without the light of First Flame. And as the Flame is fading, the flow of time is speeding down allowing the past to catch up.
This bring us to the first answer: the Age of Dark in DSI is an age when the Fire faded for good, meaning time itself wouldn't really exist anymore. Past, present and future would be all at once as the stagnation of time would have took over complitely, and only beings of the Dark would've been able to exist in such state.
But then, what has changed in DSIII? Short answer: the continous Linking of the Fire during countless age has worsened things to the immaginable.
When Linking the Flame, you don't reset the world or start a brand-new-world: all you do is removing the dam, allowing time to flow correctly once again. BUT, you can't magically remove all the filthy spawns of kegare and stagnation that originated from it.
And so, in many eons, kegare from all the eras accumulated to a point of no return. As the JPN DSIII Soapstone description states, not only time, but EVERYTHING in Lothric is stagnant.
This includes Space, originating the Convergence of Lands which drift to the fading Flame epicenter. And includes the Dark Souls too: the JPN texts calls the gems in the Cathedral of Deep as the result of the stagnation of the Dark - meaning the true nature of the Deep itself is none other than a stagnant pool of Abysses, stacked one above the other from arriving to the present from different times.
As the Dark Souls started to get stagnant, kegare found its way inside men. And as said before, kegare naturally brings the spawn of insects and other filthy invertebrates: which is why humans in the Ringed City turned in Locusts.
With this state of things, the Age of Dark we sought in DSI is no longer possible: letting the Flame simply fade would mean letting the Dark stagnation to took over too. People would exists only in a state of eternal corruption, lingering in a giant pool of filthy, stagnant water: the Age of the Deep See forsaw by Aldritch.
The only way to prevent this scenario and come to proper Age of Man, is for someone to usurp the dying flame by themselves, and use its Light to make the Dark inside humans to flow correctly once again - allowing the Lord of Hollows of moving in the immovable Deep, and world to breath once again.
@@baltoy7460
Something tells me someone has been paying attention to Sabaku no Maiku
Love this series, should do a podcast
I already edit too much stuff 😅
So if I may, looking at what happens when humanity runs wild, I don’t blame Gwynn for fearing the dark. In the face of Serpents, abysses, the possible end of time…seriously what is the right choice here? The flaw when examining rulers and leaders in history is assuming they even get to approach the world with a solid morality. Choices NEED to be made. Sacrifices NEED to be made. There are no good guys when leading empires.
Gwynn made a stand and planted his flag. Dragons suck. The Dark sucks. Living eternally as a mindless hollow sucks. Gwynn tried something different. Feared something worse and hoped for something better. Good guy? Bad Guy? Only anywhere near appropriate a distinction when taking for granted the world he helped build where such distinctions even exist. Good and evil are luxuries, not true definable elements of the world he came from.
Allant is a villain. He destroyed his world based on his own nihilism.
Gwynn made an attempt to create a resplendent world with an order that could be made sense of based on human values.
He’s literally the guy who took his species from cave dwellers to city builders in his lifetime.
It wasn’t all going to be pretty. There is no way to make ALL good choices even as a minor player on the stage of life.
I feel sorry for Gwynn. He wasn’t always on his best behavior but really, fuck the natural order. It is not now nor ever was on the side of humanity.
well again you don't really know if the og humans would've been undead or hollow, from their talk it seemed more like they wouldn't have gone that way without the seal of fire? And the dragons don't seem too bad ngl. There's even one in ash lake who is super indifferent to you
True, I like this perspective
Do we know the Dark would be bad if it hadn't been repressed forever?
He was manipulated into fearing the end of time or he's just a greedy bastard. Time wouldn't end. Just his rule or the state of the world. The cycle doesn't truly end until the conclusion of Ringed City.
Think oroboros. If Gwyn did nothing humans would get the torch then they would die out and something else would arise. This would happen until another era similar to the intro of DS1.
Or one could theorize whatever perished before Gwyn's time was what birthed the dragons. If Giants are coming from seeds and hollows eventually become tree like it's just natural to assume everything would just happen again. Not exactly the same, but very similar in flow of events.
Damn Abyssal Archive seems super cool
it is :)
Since Sinclair Lore is being mentioned. Is there anything about the translation of... reborn?
I can send you a 5 hour video on that!
That backstab at 3:25 bruh
No cheese, gg
This video is a great example as to why writing a script is important
you phrased a better than I could
altough this guy so excited to talk about that, he would just read the read the script faster than he can talk
Are there any other channels or videos that I should look at to do with Dark Souls 1 lore specifically that aren’t as well know like your Vaati or Undead Hollow ?
SinclairLore
@@AesirAesthetics thank you so much!
@@Yelrahnotremah No probs.
I did some collaborations with them in the day you might wanna check out if you enjoyed this vide :)
.75x playback speed is your friend here. Lokey sounds drunk but that's because they're talking so fast everything ends up slurred. Still the best way to hear what's being said though.
lol
he can't contain his dark soul anymore so it became wild and frenzied
The Lord of Fuel question reminded me of Hank Hill.
Lol
Is there any chance Lokey does a lore book on Bloodborne?
:O HE MUST!!!!
@@AesirAesthetics I'd be more excited for that than a BB PC port, ngl.
1. The only difference between Gwyn and, say, Solaire, is that Gwyn has a lord soul and Solaire has a dark soul. They otherwise have the same origins.
2. The curse of the undead is really, if you think about it, humans losing their souls and returning to what they were in the Age of Ancients. You die, lose your souls, and become hollow. That is the deviousness of Gwyn’s plan. Humans draw power from the dark, so as the fire fades, humans likely become immortal. But as the fire fades, the curse activates, causing them to lose their humanity, forcing them to continue the Age of Fire to stop themselves from all going hollow.
3. Gwyn 100% looks hollow when we encounter him, and there isn’t any reason as I established that he couldn’t become hollow as that is how he started. The mystery would be how he became hollow since we get his lord soul when we defeat him. However, we sometimes get humanities (dark souls) from hollow enemies when we defeat them, so I don’t know. The mechanics of souls cause me the greatest amount of confusion in the Dark Souls series.
4. How was Gwyn still alive after sacrificing himself to the First Flame? Did ringing the two bells resurrect him, like it resurrected some of the successful and failed Lords of Cinder in DS3?
5. I also question why Gwyn wouldn’t just let us kindle the First Flame if that’s his grand scheme, especially if he wasn’t hollow? Couldn’t he just let us kindle the First Flame and walk out of the kiln, ready to rule again now that someone took his place?
Haven't watched yet, but I'm curious to see if the true role of Lloyd in the narrative will come up.
Edit: Interesting, I saw Lloyd as more of an usurper than an appointee.
Ah dang, I wish I got to ask Lokey/Aesir who they think exiled the Firstborn aka Nameless King? There’s a few answers that come to mind, but it’s crazy to think how long we accepted Gwyn as being the prime suspect.
According to the JPN descriptions, it was banished by "the Gods" in general. I guess nobody really liked what he was doing with Dragons, and he decided to left to avoid a civil war.
@@baltoy7460
Also, in JPN one of the primordial serpents (I've forgotten which) states that Gwyn entrusted his sons (male and plural, specifically. That is, nameless king and gwyndolin) with guiding mankind
Where is the link to the Sinclair Lokey episode about Velka?
Ladies and gentlemen, Christmas has come early.
🎅
Wait, Painted world of Ariamis is DarkSouls!Australia?
Always has been 😏
My favorite part is when the centipide demon glitches through the wall
lol
Thanks for the vid
yep. adding this one to favorites.
Lokey and I also did chats on the lore of Demon's Souls and Bloodborne, if you're interested :)
@@AesirAesthetics gotta beat bloodborne first 🤫but will do! your content is some of my favorite on the site.
Do we have a link for the Sinclair/Lokey video about Seath?
ua-cam.com/video/JxOzdBZLT6M/v-deo.html
Wasn't the cloranthy ring in the great hollow?
In the first game yes, but the Chloranthy Ring +3 in Dark Souls 3 is found on the statue :)
@@AesirAesthetics oh, yes. Forgot about that
Thank you
Thank YOU!
Can uou do one for ds2?
huge fan of the channel but i kinda wish this was more organized/formatted better. wasn't familiar with Lokey other than the name and it's hard to follow his constant and sometimes unintelligible ramblings.
Are lords a distinct race?
they didn't put half as much thought as you guys did into their lore
Odin and Loki discuss Zeus
What’s the “very nsfw” topic lowkey mentioned? The fact they didn’t explain has me crazy curious how bad it was
180 EU?? How am I supposed to... Oh hi, digital version!
1:46:40 - Do we actually know this? It is glib and forceful statements like this that really hinder Lokey's credibility, not only is there nothing to corroborate that piece of the lore, but it is reasoned out post hoc. We'd love to discuss this with you though, I think having some push back would go pretty far. Nothing to discredit Aesir, he's not really here to challenge Lokey.
Do you mean Gwyndolin becoming the Chief God in DSIII? It's stated in the Sulyvahn Soul JPN description.
@@baltoy7460 No, no, I am talking about Lloyd becoming Allfather after Gwyn linked the flame. This is the point that Lokey reasons out post hoc, "it just makes sense."
@@ClaymoreLinx Oh, then I'm more uncertain. Now I don't remember all the JPN descriptions, but I do remember, while I analysing them, coming to the conclusion the Way of White was established sometimes around Gwyn linking the Flame [slightly before/after?], and Lloyd power being strictly associated to the Way of White.
Do you remember if the WoW foundation is ever specifically linked to the appearence of the first Undead Curse? Maybe in some descriptions about Leeroy?
Again it's ages since I don't revisit the lore, so I could be totally off here. Tomorrow/In the next days I'll try to find some actual textual evidence supporting/going against this assertion.
Also, it probably comes natural to think that Gwyn was the "Chief God" during his reign, so there's that too.
What doesn't make sense about it? All Father is used most commonly in Norse myth for Odin as chief or leader of the Gods. Do you think Llyod would outrank Gwyn when he is still around?
@@Quirkus23 The explanation is improbable; the problem is there if no corroboration. Because of Havel's participation in the Way of White, it seems that it had to have existed before Gwyn left. This means that Llyod probably had his title concurrently with Gwyn's reign.
I do not demonize Gwyn, so I'd have no problem with an explanation of him sharing power, King and Cardinal style.
Ben Shapiro is doing Dark souls?
This isn't for me. This is unedited podcast material
This might be a silly misconception, but I always assumed that hollows were the "natural" state of humans before the age of fire? That they existed in a state of parity, neither alive nor dead; but that when the first flame brought about disparity, suddenly there was a hard division between what was alive and what was dead, and that the dark soul effectively gave them humanity and personhood? So when the the fire beginning to fade is a direct cause of the hollowing; that you suddenly have living, thinking beings starting to succumb to this collapse between life and death?and that it's not necessarily a direct result of Gwyn's actions, but something that when started happening reminded him that there were natural laws and forces far older and more powerful that even he couldn't hold back?
I don't know! Again, it's very likely a misconception on my part, but I was always very attached to it and the sort of existential horror it sort of represented!
Love the channel!! Extremely looking forward to the Armored Core videos!
many assume that the "age of fire" began when the first flame came to be, but in actuality it came to be according to the original JPN after the discovery of the Souls of Kings (Lord Souls). When first flame brought disparity, it brought souls, the power of disparity itself, and it brought life, which in consequence brings death, and the archdragons, who predated the first flame, were the first to be "cursed" with life. From then on, as we see with the giant skeletons which walk on four that bear a dragon-like face along with a small tail in the Giant Graveyard (tomb of giants) along with the head of a horned giant (yes, those mentioned in ds3) next to an archdragon, we can draw an evolutionary line.
EVERY biological life came from the dragons. Archdragons -> horned giants -> giants -> gods (i like lokey's term for them, medials, since they are in between giants and humans often regarding size) -> humans/pygmies
what makes one human is the dark soul within them that they bear, and the dark is the equivalent of space in dark souls since light is time, and since the dark soul is a soul of pure darkness, it doesnt have time, meaning, its bearers dont age, they are ageless immortals, just like undead. Due to the dark's nature to always consume (hence why its often associated with greed), the dark often rots the bodies of dark soul bearers, thus making them like corpses, and the "true" humans are the Hollows, those who bear *only* the soul which makes them human, their true self, their dark soul.
But, due to King Gwyn's fear of the Dark and the potential humanity had (they were now at the top of the food chain and had a massive advantage against the gods), gwyn inflicted man with the most terrible curse, time. by giving man time via fire's light with the darksign, humanity had to rely on other white souls in order to build memories and so on, to make up their "self", souls that in the end are an imposed false self. This lack in soul not only made man look more like the medials in physical appearance (hence why human pretty and hollow ugly), but also stopped the dark within man to develop such a self, thus not growing beyond its nature to greedily consume. And due to this, when first flame goes to fade, so does the darksign's fire, and with this, the greedy dark within man is released, and one becomes a Hollow, they become bound to the Dark's nature to always consume, hence why they are soul-starved.
Its more explained in detail in lokey's analyses on his blog and in his Abyssal Archive, a whole two volumes of books which analyse the whole of ds1 lore. it is really good and insightful, recommend you check it out! he has a discord btw, and who knows, we might even meet there (my name is RafaelBalbinus, discord username being rafabalbi)
I think part of the pushback you get on a lot of these topics is that what you're claiming, even with better translations, is just your interpretations of it, but you're often using absolutes and "this is fact" kind of language. And that has nothing to do with how Dark Souls does its storytelling, it's the same in other works even when you have the creator coming down and directly outright saying this, that, or the other thing. And that gets exacerbated when, as others have pointed out, you're also building several entire snowballing theories on unsubstantiated elements.
This is pedantic.
@@Quirkus23 let me rephrase it then:
"You're rambling on about Lokey's fanfiction that has no actual evidence to it, when it does have something it is often blatantly contradicted by the game itself, treating the whole thing as gospel or some great revelation, and then dismissing anyone thinking something contrary to said fanfiction as just reading the game wrong."
@@NuclearSpring Seems like you got a lot wrapped up in this. I just think he has another cool perspective on a game I love. I don't think it's anything to get worked up about.
@@NuclearSpring While there are revelations to be gained by the translations, the analysis is a house of cards. Essentially there is a leap in almost every theory Lokey subscribes to, Gwyn is Evil, Seathe has a Soul, etc. I think the tone, using phrases like "of course," doesn't help either.
Was he supposed to respond "idk the game is vague about this" to every question for 3 hours? Yeah that's sounds like a good content to me, very interesting. Of course he's giving his point of view, with some parts much more explicitly supported than others, but that's how the dark souls' narrative is. You can't have concrete 100% confirmation of every single detail in these games, if that's what you are looking for than this game's lore is not for you
You have a similar voice to Johnny Depp mate very cool
:)
Honestly my first run in dark souls was in the end like that ,,ok so Gwyn is beaten up, so now what? Whaaat i can only to link the fire or not link the fire? But i dont whant do!!! This -censored- shaped snakes are lying they play 4d chess with us!!! Noooooo!" Xd then in ds2 i recived third option and be happy
And then the 3rd game gives you Aldritch and you see what the third choice leads to
@@AesirAesthetics fair enough but he picked up 4th option- just eat up that all depression about the flame 🤣
'Meaty girth'
3:03 lokeys answer to this question is funny. he really goes off-game-script, assumes a lot and it isnt just going of the translations script. yes things become very easy to understand if you start to write your own fanfic
edit: okay that was mean.
Does Lokey speak Japanese?
This has been extremely hard to find out and is also extremely pertinant to him making these claims.
yes, he does, u can see his posts in his website to know that, or idk, his streams
Homie is doing shit tier damage in the gameplay footage as this video plays lol
Is this on purpose?
It's gotta be, right?
I've never understood the allure of purposefully underleveling or not maxing out a BK weapon immediately, especially in DS1 where it's so easy to get twinkling titanite.
But, I do respect the grindset mindset.
43:08
Good lord
Imagine editing it O_o
omg 3 hours
Enjoy!
The gank gameplay lol
Lol
1:36:06
The age of dark is ‘eternal’ until a new first flame erupts, don’t forget it’s cyclical
The Fire coming back after a temporary Dark Age is a symptom of how irreversibly Gwyn chained Fire to Dark, not the natural order. A perversion perpetuated by the subsequent lords of cinder extending the existence of the First Flame and thus the subjugation of Dark by Flame through the Dark Sign. Creating a cycle that wasn't meant to be, but that has lasted so long that it just won't end as if nature has been so bent and twisted towards this direction it can't untwist, making it so even if the Flame goes out for a while the smoldering "embers left to us by lords past" will eventually manage to reignite.
Kaathe wasn't lying when he said the natural progression was meant to be The Age of Fire followed by The Age of Dark, after the Age of Ancients had run its course. irreversibly
I never liked the idea of the "medial". I like to think that gwyn is no different than the player character save that he has none of the humanity (dark soul) and the majority of the ambition (souls).
the gods and humans are called, for the former, persons of fire, while latter, persons of dark, its clear they are seperate races
Hey Aesir and Low-key. Missed y'all. So I just finished watching all of that in one sitting and I fucking hate Gwyn
we lowkey missed you too :)
Lokey is like the Ben Shapiro of the Souls lore community
Gwyn was a hero. An obvious hero. The furtive pygmy screwed everything up when they abandoned their responsibility by fragmenting the dark soul. Gwyn made the best of a bad situation and sacrificed himself, not villainous behaviour. That's the "deeper" interperetation. The only characters who view him as a villain are Kaath and Aldia, and if you can't figure out that they aren't trustworthy then I can't help you.
Every Fromsoft game deals with the horrors which are unfurled when the order of the world is corrupted.
In Dark Souls, this is stagnation.
Who stagnated the world? Who created the firelinking system? the good guy?
@AesirAesthetics considering what we've seen the alternative is in several places, yeah.
You repeatedly claim that Gwyn wasn’t estranged from Nameless, but I find that claim pretty laughable given Nameless sided with the dragons against his own father.
The Line:
"By sacrificing himself to link the fire, and commanding his children to shepherd the humans"
Comes from:
"だから奴は、火を継ぎ、
自らの息子たちに、人を率い、縛らせた"
息子たち is the word to highlight for the plural "sons".
So it's a mistranslation which should've been:
"By sacrificing himself to link the fire, and commanding his SONS to shepherd the humans"
Gwyn gave this mission to his Sons (Nameless + Gwyndolin) then left for the kiln.
The miracle which Namelss left behind on Gwyn's Tomb is another indicator of this.
Yet he was so kind as to marry his daughter to Seath. If he hated the dragons so much he would've killed him after the war. Plus the sunlight blade miracle in ds1 states that the firstborn left this miracle on the grave after gwyn went to the kiln. Meaning he was in anor londo until gwyn went to the kiln and then all the other gods sided with gwyndolin and banished the firstborn from anor londo
息子たち can mean sons plural. It can also mean son in singular + people around him. Like how laurence and associates doesn't mean two laurences but laurence and one or more allies. So he could see his son NK as the leader of the group his addressing and say musuko tachi without meaning two sons.
Heads up, title says Gwyen Lore Lost if Translation. Also looking forward to this, thanks for making it :)
Fixed!
Thank you :)
Hear me out. If Gwyn left his firstborn to rule wouldn't he been crowned Gwyn as well? Given we find him with Drakes and Dragonkind he obviously became disillusioned by everything. Crowned Gwyn. Got blamed for his father's actions. Got mad. Wrote his own name out of history and had the tomb built as well as abandoning his father's Sun Blade. My two cents.
This was pretty interesting and I liked the proper translations. Admittedly, there are a lot of things about the translation I do like better because they help enhance the narrative that much more, but it was still interesting to hear something closer to Miyazaki's actual intent.