-tryn would have 1643 up at 11 -leveling ult out his hp threshold from 30 to 50 -this means he lose out on 0.55 ad for leveling his ult when he's at his lowest -leveling your ult gives you 20sec less cooldown and fury gain us also useful for situations where you are strike first with low fury. I mean at the end of the day it's up to all to decide. 1 ad during ult or 20sec less cooldown on ult and more fury gain
@@PinHeadSupliciumwtf at that point your already oneshot casters with 3 points on e. so what you're getting is 30 damage and 1 sec less cooldown on. not the worst thing but I still think ult cooldown is better but not by a huge margin
"well your comment was good till the last sentence because it contradicted the whole point of fact checking. Now you owe us a calculation and showcase which videos (half of them all) are irrelevant and why)" I leave this comment so you can make sense of the discussion below but to clarify I misunderstood the first guy commenting cuz he was refering to half ot THIS video not to half of all the videos so yeah, its my mistake.
@@michaonski8617 well I can admit that i understood it wrong. Im sorry for that. Lets look at the other side of the coin though. You tell me to learn to read but I suppose that if your comment was written more precisely, I wouldn't have mistaken the meaning, so yeah... I can learn how to read and you can learn how to write and we will both get the lesson. Have a nice day.
@@michaonski8617 hahahaha fuck me then i guess 💀 well im not here to have an argument or to judge. True i didnt see that the first comment wasnt yours but still my comment holds the meaning so yeah. You don't have to be all that passive-aggressive with your "learn to read" thing though because it wasnt necessary in the first place lol.
@@HolyAvgr Trydna doesb't really need AD debuff post lvl 11 because everybody already has oneshot potential on him so he only relies on his ult to survive
This is wrong. Guaranteed and potential damage increases by maxing E and W before R. While in exchange you only reduce your CD window by 20 seconds by lvling up R. You can just wait those 20 seconds. It's not like you are constantly using your ult the instant it comes off CD, anyways. Play around that. The video overrates (by a lot) the damage you lose from passive, true. But it's the QEW max-first what's the deal-maker. harder debuff on W, more damage, more frequently, and more mobile on E. If you don't have ult, play and trade accordingly. And Trynd is not usless without R, lol. He's just not allowed to go oonga boonga as if he had it. You can poke with AA + E and go out of danger. Specially if you are taking Grasp.
I'm pretty sure Phreak talks about this and shows the math during his Patch Rundown for the patch when Trynd ult was given a cooldown incentive on its rank-up. You could look up which patch that was in his changelog section on the Wiki and then go search Phreak's channel for that patch, and scrub theough the video to Tryndamere.
This decision is extremely matchup reliant. The extra Ad is helpful in 1 on one brawls. But is entirely useless against champions that poke and kill you during their ult window. Mordekaiser, Garen, Malphite, Darius. Extra ult points against these champions will keep the cooldown around even against them and help prevent accidental one shots.
@@wielbladtibijski the flat ad is still nice damage while applying AA's with ult. His Q, W, and E alls have bad flat lvl scaling, only good ap or ad scalings, or utility
Tryn OTP here… Keeping R at rank 1 has always been a no brainer… but honestly I’ve been doing the opposite for some time now Usually the AD you lose is like 0.6~1.2% of your total… which is seemingles and the cooldown reduction you gain really makes a difference, especially at lvl 11 where you are roaming around the map and playing macro
It's true that Trynd players don't Max Ult but I don't think it's because of the Min HP threshold, they do it becuase basic abilites give more value per level than ult. Trynd's E is one of the best basic abilities in the game.
Same thing goes for red kayn, putting points in his ult only lowers his ultimate coldown while it’s better value to put points in your W since more damage and lowers coldown and his E gets gives you more heals, longer duration and shorter coldown also.
@@edipedipbulmaz Exacly, and Rhaast healing from ult ignore 100% of armor so you can heal from chamions like rammus or leona no matter how big armor they have. I do this on practice tool on dummy that i give 1000 armor and 10000 hp. Rhaast ult heal me full
it's similiar with Morde R. Morde R gains nothing except the CD reduction. If you're level 11 and your R is on CD, you might aswell put that point into E, as it's way more value
Hey Havoc, could you please make a video about how XP works? Because I don‘t really know how it works and I want to find out. I have the following questions: -Is Camp XP shared when others are nearby? If so, do the enemies share the XP with allies too? -When I kill minions or monsters do I have to be in range to get the XP or can I possibly get gold without the XP? -Do I get bonus XP when killing a minion or am I getting the same amount of XP when just standing there? -How do I know the exact XP range? Thanks in advance, your vids are so useful!
Although I am not havoc I hope I can help -No, camp XP only granted to the killer exception is dragons which gives shared XP to the team, and baron gives global XP to the whole team -You gain XP from jungle monster by killing them, XP from minions is either earned from being close to them when they die, OR when you kill them, distance doesn't matter if YOU kill them (example like swain W) and it's the same amount, it's only different when you have teammates around because then it is shared, like assist gold. -In the options (I think in the interface part) you can toggle thinks such as XP, HP, MANA. So if a minion dies near you see a text saying you got XP near you champ. Basically JG monster XP is only for the killer except for objectives, Minions grant XP to everyone nearby them when they die and to the person who killed it. (these don't stack, you don't get more XP if you are near and you killed it it's the same) Just to be sure you cannot do anything other than dying to give the enemy XP.
@@niklaskupsch5363 the most important part ( if you are a laner ) is to know the range of exp when minions near you die. just like niklaskupsch5363 said go into interface and get that exp thing on , so you see that text pop when a minion dies in your range. you could jump into a custom game / practice tool , stand at any lane and wait until some minions die. every time a minion dies , move a bit away , and test out how far you can go , so you rly know how much the range is. this is one of the most important things while laning ( toplane) imo , cause some matchups are just so bad , that you will die or loose a lot of hp if you go near the enemy. so you cant get gold until the wave comes to you. but most of the time you can stand far away , and when you see a minion get super low hp , move in exp range and move out again , just to not loose everything. level matter way more than gold in the early game. good luck :)
@@niklaskupsch5363two more things, xp range is generally as big as your screen. I don't know exactly how big, I just 'know' whilst I'm playing because Ive been playing for a while. You can go in practice tool and adjust your position near waves to see where you do and dont get xp. Secondly, just like minions, kills also grant XP and they work just like minions. If your ally is in range, you will share the kill xp with them. EVEN if they did nothing to contribute (assist) to the kill itself. They only need to be in range. Thats why solo kill xp is much more valuable
@niklaskupsch5363 The math on how much XP a champion or epic monster kill is worth gets complicated because of comeback calculations if you're down levels, or your team is down average levels. Minions actually grant more total XP to the team as a whole if it's shared, like Assist gold, but unlike assist gold, minion XP is less for the killer if they're sharing the total, and that's why ADC&support lag behind in levels as well as why Jungle leeching can be a problem for solo laners if the jungler is unnecessarily helping to shove the wave even without taking any cs gold. It might still be worth for a crash and back timing, but it should be done intelligently because of the tradeoff. Minion XP range has been changed multiple times over the years. I know it used to be 1400 units for a long time, but I don't remember if it's that currently or else what the exact number is. The "on your screen" heuristic is definitely only remotely accurate if you lock the camera to your champion to check, obviously. Wards also grant XP, which is shared in proximity as well. Be careful about inting wards into the enemy team at level 1 because it can throw off the level 2 spike timing on the opening waves of the lane. It's even very slightly worse to give ward XP to specifically Bot duo laners now than it used to be, since Riot changed the XP system within the last couple of months to close the level gap between laning roles some. Generally, having one ward killed by just a Leona Q-auto reset trick and her ADC, for example, is enough for them to hit level 2 on an earlier minion if they know what they're doing and you don't sufficiently abuse Leona's melee lvl 1 to out push them. Junglers/Supports or midlaners sometimes do a trick where they take sweeping lens before or after warding totem at level 1 in order to spot out a ward near river bushes or raptors or attempted deep vision on their buff, and get the Midlaner the same advantage I explained for Support/ADC. There is a much larger window of time during which a ward placement is vulnerable to this tactic from a Jungler/mid tagteam than only placing it in the face of a bot duo while fighting over a bush at level1. Because they have the leisure to use the sweeper depending on which camp start and how early or late the ward went down, since Mid doesnt have to run to the corner of the map to begin lane in time. It's easier to intentionally split the XP on only two champions this way, and if they're doing so intentionally then they know why that's good and are intending to leverage it. Losing two or even three wards to a larger number of enemies is very bad if the enemy realizes what's happened and have remotely playable matchups in the opening wave to take advantage of it. But just one lost and spread amongst four or five enemies is not a big deal because it doesn't change level breakpoints by a whole minion.
I mean, it's not really done because of pf the threshold, but because his other skills are just better to max. His E cd is important. Q gives ad and his W reduces more attack. Compared to ult cd they're just better to max out
Its a preference thing. There are plenty of high elo trynds that lvl up R at either lvl 11 or lvl 13 (after maxing Q or E). Then there are also trynds that don't do that. 🤷♂️ I prefer lvling it up at 13 but I'm not a trynd otp
Would love a video on Leblanc, shes one of the only champions that i feel like i never have the upper hand against, not only is her damage insane but her crazy mobility makes it nearly impossible to catch her if she doesnt want you to. So even if i *could* kill her, i cant cause she just dashes away and then either tps back if you chase well or keeps running or double dashes. the best counter i can think of is have a poppy on your team lmao. TLDR: Would like to see a video on countering leblancs crazy mobility that isnt waiting for cooldowns.
The AD difference itself is negligible, especially by Level 17. The value of the rank in the basic itself and the cool down difference of the ultimate both dwarf the AD calculation to an absurd degree. So there is absolutely no reason not to go ahead with Rank 2 and 3 of R at 17 and 18 if you've even held off until then.
Malphite, rush Steelcaps, Bramble vest if he's rushing Ravenous hydra, Frozen heart start or Iceborn gauntlet if you are confident enough with trading, max W E Q or E W Q if he builds up on AS like Botrk. You are welcome.
-tryn would have 1643 up at 11
-leveling ult out his hp threshold from 30 to 50
-this means he lose out on 0.55 ad for leveling his ult when he's at his lowest
-leveling your ult gives you 20sec less cooldown and fury gain us also useful for situations where you are strike first with low fury.
I mean at the end of the day it's up to all to decide. 1 ad during ult or 20sec less cooldown on ult and more fury gain
you forgot to the value of the additional point in e
@@PinHeadSupliciumwtf 20 sec ult cd means A LOT for a champ with an ult that strong. It's basically a free kill if used right.
@@nimrodszocs2795 depends on timing and wave management. There's a reason many do it the rank one way.
@@PinHeadSupliciumwtf at that point your already oneshot casters with 3 points on e. so what you're getting is 30 damage and 1 sec less cooldown on. not the worst thing but I still think ult cooldown is better but not by a huge margin
Yeah, definitely gonna get more value out of the Ult.
You didnt say how many AD tryn loses by leveling his R. Tried it and was 0.5 ad lost per point in R... half ur vid is irrelevant lmao
"well your comment was good till the last sentence because it contradicted the whole point of fact checking. Now you owe us a calculation and showcase which videos (half of them all) are irrelevant and why)" I leave this comment so you can make sense of the discussion below but to clarify I misunderstood the first guy commenting cuz he was refering to half ot THIS video not to half of all the videos so yeah, its my mistake.
@@szolim_oh fam learn to read first then wrtie, "half ur vid IS". dude sayin half of THIS vid is irrelevant not half of them all
@@michaonski8617 well I can admit that i understood it wrong. Im sorry for that. Lets look at the other side of the coin though. You tell me to learn to read but I suppose that if your comment was written more precisely, I wouldn't have mistaken the meaning, so yeah... I can learn how to read and you can learn how to write and we will both get the lesson. Have a nice day.
@@szolim_oh fam... really REALLY learn to read, first comment aint mine... and u talk about 2nd side of a coin... both tell u to learn how to read
@@michaonski8617 hahahaha fuck me then i guess 💀 well im not here to have an argument or to judge. True i didnt see that the first comment wasnt yours but still my comment holds the meaning so yeah. You don't have to be all that passive-aggressive with your "learn to read" thing though because it wasnt necessary in the first place lol.
i remember that when tryn only put 1 point in ult because of it doesnt reduce cd but now it does so...
👀 yeah it felt weird to me why would someone do that now
@@arcadeyous do what bro
Trynda mains used to max R after they maxed all abilities. Nowdays they max it after E
Spin to win🤜🤛
Trynda still maxes his Q first so you only max ult before maxing W
Idk why they do that. The AD debuff is so strong and guaranteed. And leagueofgraphs seems to agree on this, from what I'm seeing right now.
@@HolyAvgr Trydna doesb't really need AD debuff post lvl 11 because everybody already has oneshot potential on him so he only relies on his ult to survive
I dunno about this one man. Trynd without ult is pretty harmless, borderline useless. Reducing the cooldown is way better most of the time
This is wrong. Guaranteed and potential damage increases by maxing E and W before R. While in exchange you only reduce your CD window by 20 seconds by lvling up R. You can just wait those 20 seconds. It's not like you are constantly using your ult the instant it comes off CD, anyways. Play around that.
The video overrates (by a lot) the damage you lose from passive, true. But it's the QEW max-first what's the deal-maker. harder debuff on W, more damage, more frequently, and more mobile on E.
If you don't have ult, play and trade accordingly. And Trynd is not usless without R, lol. He's just not allowed to go oonga boonga as if he had it. You can poke with AA + E and go out of danger. Specially if you are taking Grasp.
vlad also wants e max at 12
I'm pretty sure Phreak talks about this and shows the math during his Patch Rundown for the patch when Trynd ult was given a cooldown incentive on its rank-up.
You could look up which patch that was in his changelog section on the Wiki and then go search Phreak's channel for that patch, and scrub theough the video to Tryndamere.
So is it worth to not give any skill point to the ultimate even lvl 18 ?
No, I thought about it for 5 seconds and it was a stupid question don't answer
@@gonfreecs4627 🤣
This decision is extremely matchup reliant. The extra Ad is helpful in 1 on one brawls.
But is entirely useless against champions that poke and kill you during their ult window. Mordekaiser, Garen, Malphite, Darius.
Extra ult points against these champions will keep the cooldown around even against them and help prevent accidental one shots.
Who else doesn't max ult?
Sometimes udyr
Vladimir, his r leveling online gives him flat dmg
Kalista, maybe even better example of a useless ult leveling
ap twitch
@@wielbladtibijski the flat ad is still nice damage while applying AA's with ult. His Q, W, and E alls have bad flat lvl scaling, only good ap or ad scalings, or utility
I disagree, ult CDR is more important.
Tryn OTP here…
Keeping R at rank 1 has always been a no brainer… but honestly I’ve been doing the opposite for some time now
Usually the AD you lose is like 0.6~1.2% of your total… which is seemingles and the cooldown reduction you gain really makes a difference, especially at lvl 11 where you are roaming around the map and playing macro
It's true that Trynd players don't Max Ult but I don't think it's because of the Min HP threshold, they do it becuase basic abilites give more value per level than ult.
Trynd's E is one of the best basic abilities in the game.
Ppl still dont max R cuz it doesn't provide any damage to his kit.
Song name
Snowpoint City OST
bin
Ap twitch also shouldnt skill r past 6
Same thing goes for red kayn, putting points in his ult only lowers his ultimate coldown while it’s better value to put points in your W since more damage and lowers coldown and his E gets gives you more heals, longer duration and shorter coldown also.
Dude thank you so much
How convenient i just started Rhaasty boi
red kayn is all about his r what are you talking about? max it out guys dont believe this
@@edipedipbulmazyeah you should just level ult, this is like saying malphite shouldn’t level ult on level 11
Ah how many times I saved myself by using ult in mid-game as Rhaast just seconds after cooldown went off. W damage isn't worth it.
@@edipedipbulmaz
Exacly, and Rhaast healing from ult ignore 100% of armor so you can heal from chamions like rammus or leona no matter how big armor they have.
I do this on practice tool on dummy that i give 1000 armor and 10000 hp. Rhaast ult heal me full
I dont Max ult... I goon it.
Now, do how to counter tryndamere please.
you can't
@@TFB2022 are you bronze?
jax E
Rush tabis, get frozen heart/ raduins omen, get thornmail
Malphite Max W
I wonder if bro is a pokemon fan
BRONZE ANALYTICS 🤣
pls how to counter neeko 🥲
Same with ap twitch!
it's similiar with Morde R. Morde R gains nothing except the CD reduction. If you're level 11 and your R is on CD, you might aswell put that point into E, as it's way more value
tryndamere 101
Hey Havoc, could you please make a video about how XP works? Because I don‘t really know how it works and I want to find out. I have the following questions:
-Is Camp XP shared when others are nearby? If so, do the enemies share the XP with allies too?
-When I kill minions or monsters do I have to be in range to get the XP or can I possibly get gold without the XP?
-Do I get bonus XP when killing a minion or am I getting the same amount of XP when just standing there?
-How do I know the exact XP range?
Thanks in advance, your vids are so useful!
Although I am not havoc I hope I can help
-No, camp XP only granted to the killer exception is dragons which gives shared XP to the team, and baron gives global XP to the whole team
-You gain XP from jungle monster by killing them, XP from minions is either earned from being close to them when they die, OR when you kill them, distance doesn't matter if YOU kill them (example like swain W) and it's the same amount, it's only different when you have teammates around because then it is shared, like assist gold.
-In the options (I think in the interface part) you can toggle thinks such as XP, HP, MANA. So if a minion dies near you see a text saying you got XP near you champ.
Basically JG monster XP is only for the killer except for objectives, Minions grant XP to everyone nearby them when they die and to the person who killed it. (these don't stack, you don't get more XP if you are near and you killed it it's the same)
Just to be sure you cannot do anything other than dying to give the enemy XP.
@@pikachun2160 tysm
@@niklaskupsch5363 the most important part ( if you are a laner ) is to know the range of exp when minions near you die.
just like niklaskupsch5363 said go into interface and get that exp thing on , so you see that text pop when a minion dies in your range.
you could jump into a custom game / practice tool , stand at any lane and wait until some minions die.
every time a minion dies , move a bit away , and test out how far you can go , so you rly know how much the range is.
this is one of the most important things while laning ( toplane) imo , cause some matchups are just so bad , that you will die or loose a lot of hp if you go near the enemy.
so you cant get gold until the wave comes to you. but most of the time you can stand far away , and when you see a minion get super low hp , move in exp range and move out again , just to not loose everything.
level matter way more than gold in the early game.
good luck :)
@@niklaskupsch5363two more things, xp range is generally as big as your screen. I don't know exactly how big, I just 'know' whilst I'm playing because Ive been playing for a while. You can go in practice tool and adjust your position near waves to see where you do and dont get xp.
Secondly, just like minions, kills also grant XP and they work just like minions. If your ally is in range, you will share the kill xp with them. EVEN if they did nothing to contribute (assist) to the kill itself. They only need to be in range. Thats why solo kill xp is much more valuable
@niklaskupsch5363
The math on how much XP a champion or epic monster kill is worth gets complicated because of comeback calculations if you're down levels, or your team is down average levels.
Minions actually grant more total XP to the team as a whole if it's shared, like Assist gold, but unlike assist gold, minion XP is less for the killer if they're sharing the total, and that's why ADC&support lag behind in levels as well as why Jungle leeching can be a problem for solo laners if the jungler is unnecessarily helping to shove the wave even without taking any cs gold. It might still be worth for a crash and back timing, but it should be done intelligently because of the tradeoff.
Minion XP range has been changed multiple times over the years. I know it used to be 1400 units for a long time, but I don't remember if it's that currently or else what the exact number is. The "on your screen" heuristic is definitely only remotely accurate if you lock the camera to your champion to check, obviously.
Wards also grant XP, which is shared in proximity as well. Be careful about inting wards into the enemy team at level 1 because it can throw off the level 2 spike timing on the opening waves of the lane. It's even very slightly worse to give ward XP to specifically Bot duo laners now than it used to be, since Riot changed the XP system within the last couple of months to close the level gap between laning roles some.
Generally, having one ward killed by just a Leona Q-auto reset trick and her ADC, for example, is enough for them to hit level 2 on an earlier minion if they know what they're doing and you don't sufficiently abuse Leona's melee lvl 1 to out push them.
Junglers/Supports or midlaners sometimes do a trick where they take sweeping lens before or after warding totem at level 1 in order to spot out a ward near river bushes or raptors or attempted deep vision on their buff, and get the Midlaner the same advantage I explained for Support/ADC. There is a much larger window of time during which a ward placement is vulnerable to this tactic from a Jungler/mid tagteam than only placing it in the face of a bot duo while fighting over a bush at level1. Because they have the leisure to use the sweeper depending on which camp start and how early or late the ward went down, since Mid doesnt have to run to the corner of the map to begin lane in time. It's easier to intentionally split the XP on only two champions this way, and if they're doing so intentionally then they know why that's good and are intending to leverage it.
Losing two or even three wards to a larger number of enemies is very bad if the enemy realizes what's happened and have remotely playable matchups in the opening wave to take advantage of it.
But just one lost and spread amongst four or five enemies is not a big deal because it doesn't change level breakpoints by a whole minion.
Same for Morderkaiser, maxing his ult just reduce the CD
You need E maxed asap for damage, but I recommend maxing R before W after that. The cd is valuable
Tristana also doesnt lvl up her ultimate ability at lv11. It grants less than lvling up her Q
I mean, it's not really done because of pf the threshold, but because his other skills are just better to max.
His E cd is important. Q gives ad and his W reduces more attack. Compared to ult cd they're just better to max out
If you are low elo and people fight for no reason then max ult but if you are may be at least Dimond u can go with other abilities .
Now The question ist what do you Skill in what Order? And do you out a Point in r at lvl 16?
basicly, you are immortal furing uour R what more you want it to do
Its a preference thing. There are plenty of high elo trynds that lvl up R at either lvl 11 or lvl 13 (after maxing Q or E). Then there are also trynds that don't do that. 🤷♂️ I prefer lvling it up at 13 but I'm not a trynd otp
As trynd main, it is true, but sometimes rank 2 R is good in some matches, bcs of CDR, but if yes then after maxing spin
Yeah, you also have more ad as you lvl and buy items, so you may upgrade ult later
Would love a video on Leblanc, shes one of the only champions that i feel like i never have the upper hand against, not only is her damage insane but her crazy mobility makes it nearly impossible to catch her if she doesnt want you to.
So even if i *could* kill her, i cant cause she just dashes away and then either tps back if you chase well or keeps running or double dashes.
the best counter i can think of is have a poppy on your team lmao.
TLDR: Would like to see a video on countering leblancs crazy mobility that isnt waiting for cooldowns.
You can do the same with Vladimir to max your E first
we also do that with mordekaiser
how to counter tryndamere?
I'll try this on kindred and see if it's worth it
Do they eventually put points in the ult at lvl 17 or keep it rank 1 for more ad?
The AD difference itself is negligible, especially by Level 17.
The value of the rank in the basic itself and the cool down difference of the ultimate both dwarf the AD calculation to an absurd degree.
So there is absolutely no reason not to go ahead with Rank 2 and 3 of R at 17 and 18 if you've even held off until then.
Song name?
Aaaaaaaa
HOW TO COUNTER HIM THO
Jax E
Steelcaps + Warden's
steelcaps and wardens
Malphite, rush Steelcaps, Bramble vest if he's rushing Ravenous hydra, Frozen heart start or Iceborn gauntlet if you are confident enough with trading, max W E Q or E W Q if he builds up on AS like Botrk. You are welcome.
They should change ult in order to give value when putting a skill pointq
ult cooldown is important for me
Red kayn also