Horrible accident from 2022. Both riders made a full recovery. This is the S1000RR that Chris won and was destroyed: ua-cam.com/video/LLMV4Eyh41A/v-deo.htmlsi=o3xZG2z3vaiRYYHV
Stuff happens but it's unfortunate that these things give bikers a bad name. I'm not a fan of putting other people on the road at risk by reckless driving. Not saying that's what happened here but it is a lesson to us all. Think first and consider those around you. Enjoy being on a bike but not at the expense of yourself or others. Taking risks is addictive and exciting but you can only go so many times without getting bit.
This thing happens because they don't know how to ride motorcycles like this guy have the camera on the helmet the he looks like he have mental problems
Give me a freaking break . 'stuff happens' I've been on 50, 60 group rides..with all sorts or riders..and "assholes" and I've never seen 1 wreck.. not to mention a wreck which causes a the bike to burst into flames.. Did you SEE SEE SEE the debris field.. parts all over the place.. and WHO PAYS FOR THIS ??? the new riders, riders who have saved to buy a superbike ..who go to insure it and find the monthly insurance permium cost more than the payment.. "Got Ya' what a flipping child .. grow up ..
@@Hunter-nb5bj track days is another reason why i dont do group rides. Every time i went on a group ride, people were always trying to show off like they had something to prove. We got nothing but straight roads here in Alberta so the track is really the only place with legit turns. Ill take doing a track day over a group ride with show offs, any day.
Group rides are great once you get a good group of riding mates that know what they’re doing. Like riding staggered formation and going single file in the twisties.
Thanks for sharing! I've seen that on to many occasions since riding back in 1994 on street bikes and before that on dirt bikes. It's a reminder to not let your emotions get the best of you. On race bikes ego and emotions can take over. I've been on street race bikes since 1994 and I've logged over 140,000+ street and track miles combined not including growing up on 2 stroke dirt bikes that I also road on a track. Most accidents are from ridding faster than your ability. Something happens at speed and the moment is faster than you can process the information, me included. Flipped my 2008 ZX10R doing a wheelie at about 75 MPH. Thank goodness I always have my gear on. Blessed to walk away with just a little road rash that tore through my pants and jacket. I've moved on to my 2022 R 1250 GS. Now God keep me safe, I ride for the enjoyment and the Adventure and destinations. For my sport bike enthusiast. Try your best to try the track at least once. You'll become a better rider and you'll rider slower on the street knowing you have nothing to prove. That was my experience. God keep my ridding community safe. The eagle flies high and sees everything. May we all ride with the Eagle. Blessings! 🦅
Bro!!! Please be safe out there. Too many wildcards in these damn group rides. You have so much to live for. Glad the guys are ok, sorry about your bike. Just concerned, not lecturing.
This kinda content 650ib starts putting up is kinda bringing back the vibe and realities that theyre humans too. Its truely sad but a good content at the same time seeing Ib in different set of emotions tells you how down to earth the guy is and why hes one of the few best moto vloggers out there, If i was a NBBS winner with tht 650Ib logo on my seat man, i wouldnt ride my bike but keep it in a museum lol, plus we all know we love smack downs dont we fam😁🔥🔥🤟
You're kidding.. he's a fucking insufferable narcissist child.. Gotcha ..!!! I've seen UP CLOSE what these missiles do to other motorcycles , cars, guard rails... rider & passenger arms, jaws. legs when they get involved in a wreck going around the posted 35, 45 55 mph speed limit and not screwing around .... now you're quadrupling that MPH add the screwing around, drag racing cutting in and out of traffic... going 180-190mph on a public road, a super highway turns these bikes into a missile.. I love taking an occasional 'speed run' and all for having fun.. but this, there NO EXCUSE.. no 'they're humans' 'down to earth' what if that Aprilia started flipping end over end into a passenger car.. JHchristmas.. why do I bother retorting to freaking childs comments..
@650ib gave up my bikes ( H. D. Sportster...'busa 1st gen & Ninja 900 ) awhile back so I haven't rode for some time ( considering the BMW M1..." duc " V4S or H2 ) and RARELY do I comment on someones content ... but felt I had to on this one. Love what you do business & humanity wise. Most importantly you're always 100% transparent 👍 Seen far too many bikers get seriously injured & a few didn't make it. Relieved EVERYONE is O K. Stay safe out there & GOD bless you ! ( life on two wheels baby ! 🏍 💪 👌💯🙏 )
Well bro you ride long enough things happen!! Glad everyone is ok considering?? Thanks for creating that build bike!! Somthing appropriate about it going out on a full send!! Better to burn out then fade away!! It was doing what it was suppose to do! My buddy just lost his bike because a truck hit it while the bike was parked!!
Says the keyboard warrior. I hope you never have the opportunity to see what you would do. I've seen plenty and emotions run high. When I crashed my ZX10 I got up to see if I was in one piece. Then dragged my bike to side of the road. I was so calm the police and the wrecker that took my bike could not believe I was the crashed rider. I've seen people trip out. At least he took action. Again I hope you never see anything like this. I have seen a lot worse unfortunately! Any time you can tell someone what happened it's a good day!
Suprised that he didn't go to the guy laying on the ground to see if he's ok. Wouldn't have to show the guy's face but my first concern would be whether my buddy was hurt 🤷♂️
I've gone on 2 group rides and I left the both rides within 15 minutes. I could tell that was a good possibility that there would be a crash or crashes. I was NOT wrong, I found out that there was crashes on both rides(one was multiple bikes due to 1 rider) showing off was the reasons for both. Not taking me down for others being stupid.
That type of wreck is always going to happen with group rides. It’s just so risky riding in traffic on freeways at high speeds as you guys do. Hope y’all calm down and ride more responsibly.
BUt, But 650ib sez there was NO 'racing or riding recklessly' but we were just doing 120mph on a crowded super highway.. Ibs an empty brain pan. empty skulluion. a dope a clown.. who w/o UA-cam would be bagging groceries, stocking shelves at the local supermarket.. just a monumental DUMMY...What should happen.. their insurers should drop them.. high risk is BS.. Once the PDs accident investigators piece this one together..get all the videos, witness statements .. graph the debris field .once the insurers get the accident report..and there are serious violations.. their insurers should just drop them.. these clowns shouldn't be abe to be insured..nor be allow to have a motorcycle operators endorsement on their DL... because WE pay for it.. this 'high risk' category is baloney .WE PAY FOR THAT TOO... it's the rider who behaves .. who pays the bill.. Max Wrist is another.. let these clowns self insure themselves ..
I’m a street rider also. Not one of those guys who hit the track one time and never ride on the road again. But I will say, it’s risky out here. Some hard lessons you got to learn out here. If you’re lucky.
Thanks ib for uploading this vid. Imo, there is a valuable "lesson" in this event for ALL of us if not a reminder, of just how dicey this "sport" is. God's enduring mercy & grace "extended" both these guys. *Wise men say: "Ride like you have nothing to prove". Let he that hath an 👂, let him hear. -🍀
so glad they were able to recover could have been sooooooo much worse very sorry about the build bike may need to not ride them when they will be given away but most of all glad they are ok thanks for showing this now maybe some of the younger riders will see just how bad just riding normal can be when it comes to ignorant drivers stay safe ib
It's really a terrible accident Sir,,, hope this types of accidents never happen on any Superbikes or any other motorcycles. Hope the riders are fully recovered now. Seeing burning any motorcycle is really a dangerous view for me.. Ride Safe Sir 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
I was worried and concerned for the riders, but when IB was running to the Aprilia with the extinguishing can and the bike blew up, I chuckled a little bit when he stopped, said, "fuck that!" , threw the can down and said, "I ain't know firefighter!" 😅😅😅 glad everyone is 👍
That's a lot of damage on that car there's no way excessive speed wasn't involved. Don't race around other road users you're lucky there wasn't a fatality
It’s just mind blowing how incredibly naive people are in the comments who believe he made a full recovery after crashing into a car and laying nearly motionless on the highway just like you believe there was no excessive speed just because somebody told you that 🤦 common sense people he basically said he made a full recovery when he was still on the ground barley moving and everyone cheers yaaa full recovery my prayers go out to those guys and 650 is a great guy but to post no excessive speed means that these 2 experienced riders were doing the speed limit when they crashed and full recovery is indicative of 100% perfect health when was the last time you crashed into a car going way over 100 mph and made a full recovery in 3 minutes
I totaled my Aprilia seven months ago because a car turned out in front of me. It caught on fire and everything just like that, riding in Florida is not the same anymore I bought new speed white factory love the bike just don’t ride on the streets as much, was riding it yesterday and the cut me off, I’d rather stick to the track
Horrible accident from 2022. Both riders made a full recovery. This is the S1000RR that Chris won and was destroyed:
ua-cam.com/video/LLMV4Eyh41A/v-deo.htmlsi=o3xZG2z3vaiRYYHV
Thank god
Glad they are okay and living to see 2023 into 2024
Every thing is ok 😢
What is this spray bro...😅 Lol i like i'm not a F firefighter...good Luck to this Bros...it was the red s1000k 2023?
'Don't get too close' . Proceeds to walk within an inch of the flaming bike .
Tasteful video showcasing the reality of what can happen. Stay safe out there. And thank you for the shout out on the ZX10R sir!
Any time!
tasteful video of a reckless biker crashing totaling an innocent car drivers car?
@@scuffedclips1 No reason to believe rider was reckless. No way the car was totaled.
Stuff happens but it's unfortunate that these things give bikers a bad name. I'm not a fan of putting other people on the road at risk by reckless driving. Not saying that's what happened here but it is a lesson to us all. Think first and consider those around you. Enjoy being on a bike but not at the expense of yourself or others. Taking risks is addictive and exciting but you can only go so many times without getting bit.
@8:12 In case you missed it
This thing happens because they don't know how to ride motorcycles like this guy have the camera on the helmet the he looks like he have mental problems
True story
Every race on this Channel on puplic roads are reckless😂
Give me a freaking break . 'stuff happens' I've been on 50, 60 group rides..with all sorts or riders..and "assholes" and I've never seen 1 wreck.. not to mention a wreck which causes a the bike to burst into flames.. Did you SEE SEE SEE the debris field.. parts all over the place.. and WHO PAYS FOR THIS ??? the new riders, riders who have saved to buy a superbike ..who go to insure it and find the monthly insurance permium cost more than the payment.. "Got Ya' what a flipping child .. grow up ..
Hi, may I include this in a compilation? It'll be credited and linked back to your channel
Yes, thanks for asking
@@650ib Thanks
This why i dont do group rides. Whether its the riders fault, car drivers fault or just a accident, something else goes wrong or drama starts.
Most don't know how to group ride and too many riders with not many skills. A recipe for an accident.
Bingo
Yup, I keep my group rides to less than 5 if I can. Started doing track riding recently and everyone needs to give that a go. What a great time!
@@Hunter-nb5bj track days is another reason why i dont do group rides. Every time i went on a group ride, people were always trying to show off like they had something to prove. We got nothing but straight roads here in Alberta so the track is really the only place with legit turns. Ill take doing a track day over a group ride with show offs, any day.
Group rides are great once you get a good group of riding mates that know what they’re doing. Like riding staggered formation and going single file in the twisties.
Glad everyone is ok. 🙏
Fresh reminder to stay safe a steady in 2024. Glad to hear that both riders are okay.
Yessir 🦾
I’m not a fkn fire fighter 😆 best comment omg 😱 this was scary 650ib 🙏
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
“Every ride is a roll of the dice, but today, fortune favored the riders. Glad to see both riders are safe and sound.”
Amen
Unique reaction from ib after 2 brothers crashed and one of the bikes is on 🔥 glad everyone made it.
Thanks for sharing! I've seen that on to many occasions since riding back in 1994 on street bikes and before that on dirt bikes. It's a reminder to not let your emotions get the best of you. On race bikes ego and emotions can take over. I've been on street race bikes since 1994 and I've logged over 140,000+ street and track miles combined not including growing up on 2 stroke dirt bikes that I also road on a track. Most accidents are from ridding faster than your ability. Something happens at speed and the moment is faster than you can process the information, me included. Flipped my 2008 ZX10R doing a wheelie at about 75 MPH. Thank goodness I always have my gear on. Blessed to walk away with just a little road rash that tore through my pants and jacket. I've moved on to my 2022 R 1250 GS. Now God keep me safe, I ride for the enjoyment and the Adventure and destinations. For my sport bike enthusiast. Try your best to try the track at least once. You'll become a better rider and you'll rider slower on the street knowing you have nothing to prove. That was my experience. God keep my ridding community safe. The eagle flies high and sees everything. May we all ride with the Eagle. Blessings! 🦅
Bro!!! Please be safe out there. Too many wildcards in these damn group rides. You have so much to live for. Glad the guys are ok, sorry about your bike.
Just concerned, not lecturing.
Thanks Mic
To hell with group rides. The few that I do, I stay in the back and watch the shenanigans
Hey! May I use it in my new episode? Watermarked and linked to your channel of course.
Yes
Thank you!@@650ib
Hey could I use this on my social platforms, ill re-edit it and when I post it ill fully credit you.
Yes
I'm glad everyone is ok, and bikes can be replaced! 650!!! 😎
There was a loss of bikes.
But at last you all are safe and sound.♥️
Keep making ib.💪
It've very unfortunate to see this happened brother. But fortuntely the rider brothers are safe which matters the most. God bless all the riders.
That was my Buddy on the RSV$, he borrowed my trailer to go get that bike, he's doing good now btw
Geezzz Thats a bad one! Pray all is well with the riders! Ride Hard, Ride Safe!
Love it when you pull out the zx-10r❤❤❤ and that phone number happens to be my area code here in ohio😂😂
Wow- sorry to see this brother - glad everyone is ok!
This kinda content 650ib starts putting up is kinda bringing back the vibe and realities that theyre humans too. Its truely sad but a good content at the same time seeing Ib in different set of emotions tells you how down to earth the guy is and why hes one of the few best moto vloggers out there, If i was a NBBS winner with tht 650Ib logo on my seat man, i wouldnt ride my bike but keep it in a museum lol, plus we all know we love smack downs dont we fam😁🔥🔥🤟
Thanks Bro! I would actually ride the bikes from time to time but not make them my daily if I won one.
You're kidding.. he's a fucking insufferable narcissist child.. Gotcha ..!!! I've seen UP CLOSE what these missiles do to other motorcycles , cars, guard rails... rider & passenger arms, jaws. legs when they get involved in a wreck going around the posted 35, 45 55 mph speed limit and not screwing around .... now you're quadrupling that MPH add the screwing around, drag racing cutting in and out of traffic... going 180-190mph on a public road, a super highway turns these bikes into a missile.. I love taking an occasional 'speed run' and all for having fun.. but this, there NO EXCUSE.. no 'they're humans' 'down to earth' what if that Aprilia started flipping end over end into a passenger car.. JHchristmas.. why do I bother retorting to freaking childs comments..
this was a wild day for all of us just glad we all made it home eventually
Yessir! We learned from it 🙏🏾🦾
💪🏾❤️ damn, glad they are making recoveries. Bikes can be replaced sometime.
Damn.That was my favorite build too.
Part out? Interesting the red caliper
Hello! May I share this amazing video for a youtube edit that I'm working on? i'll credit you with watermark on screen. Thank you in advance.
What's up!? Can I share this video for a youtube edit that I'm working on? I'll credit you with watermark on screen. Cheers.
Yes
@650ib
gave up my bikes ( H. D. Sportster...'busa 1st gen & Ninja 900 ) awhile back so I haven't rode for some time ( considering the BMW M1..." duc " V4S or H2 ) and RARELY do I comment on someones content ... but felt I had to on this one. Love what you do business & humanity wise. Most importantly you're always 100% transparent 👍 Seen far too many bikers get seriously injured & a few didn't make it. Relieved EVERYONE is O K. Stay safe out there & GOD bless you ! ( life on two wheels baby ! 🏍 💪 👌💯🙏 )
Glad to see both are almost fine but just feeling sad for 1 of my dream bike RSV4 💔 and also for S1000RR
How you've been? Can I feature this video for my youtube edit? I'll credit you with watermark on screen. Thanks in advance.
Yes
Well bro you ride long enough things happen!! Glad everyone is ok considering?? Thanks for creating that build bike!! Somthing appropriate about it going out on a full send!! Better to burn out then fade away!! It was doing what it was suppose to do! My buddy just lost his bike because a truck hit it while the bike was parked!!
Hey 650 ✌️ are you these week in Miami with your bikes?
Thank God everyone is ok…be safe Ib 🙏🏾🙏🏾
Awww man! Sorry ib! Accidents happen! I’m glad everyone made it out ok! Sorry for the lost of your bike! It can easily be replaced 😢
Ibs first instinct was to clean up the filthy streets from all that plastic
Mr. Clean😮
His first instinct was get rid of the evidence. The giveaway bike he built was not torqued to spec and it fell apart
Says the keyboard warrior. I hope you never have the opportunity to see what you would do. I've seen plenty and emotions run high. When I crashed my ZX10 I got up to see if I was in one piece. Then dragged my bike to side of the road. I was so calm the police and the wrecker that took my bike could not believe I was the crashed rider. I've seen people trip out. At least he took action. Again I hope you never see anything like this. I have seen a lot worse unfortunately! Any time you can tell someone what happened it's a good day!
@@TrickRacing I would buy a tee shirt if it had a picture of that burning bike
Suprised that he didn't go to the guy laying on the ground to see if he's ok. Wouldn't have to show the guy's face but my first concern would be whether my buddy was hurt 🤷♂️
Always ride safe and never faster then your angel... i had a low side this year and i was going about 25 mph
Hey mate! Would it be okay to use it in compilation? Full credited ofc!
Glad that everyone recovered fully thank God for protection.
Hello! Could I use this video in my upcoming work? Thank you in advance
Unfortunately so sad,hope so the riders will safe
Bless you all, my goodness 😢 poor bikes.
Hey mate, is it OK to feature your clip in a moto edit some time soon? We will credit you in all the descriptions. :).
Go ahead!
I've gone on 2 group rides and I left the both rides within 15 minutes. I could tell that was a good possibility that there would be a crash or crashes. I was NOT wrong, I found out that there was crashes on both rides(one was multiple bikes due to 1 rider) showing off was the reasons for both. Not taking me down for others being stupid.
That type of wreck is always going to happen with group rides.
It’s just so risky riding in traffic on freeways at high speeds as you guys do.
Hope y’all calm down and ride more responsibly.
BUt, But 650ib sez there was NO 'racing or riding recklessly' but we were just doing 120mph on a crowded super highway.. Ibs an empty brain pan. empty skulluion. a dope a clown.. who w/o UA-cam would be bagging groceries, stocking shelves at the local supermarket.. just a monumental DUMMY...What should happen.. their insurers should drop them.. high risk is BS.. Once the PDs accident investigators piece this one together..get all the videos, witness statements .. graph the debris field .once the insurers get the accident report..and there are serious violations.. their insurers should just drop them.. these clowns shouldn't be abe to be insured..nor be allow to have a motorcycle operators endorsement on their DL... because WE pay for it.. this 'high risk' category is baloney .WE PAY FOR THAT TOO... it's the rider who behaves .. who pays the bill.. Max Wrist is another.. let these clowns self insure themselves ..
Hey mate, would it be nice to feature your clip in my next episode? Credited of course (watermark and link to your channel).
Ok
Thanks a lot!@@650ib
Glad everyone is ok 👍 The Aprilias always go out in flames 🔥 though every time.
Fortunately, both riders have recovered. 👍👍👍
Try motorcycle track days, at your local race track!
Glad everyone was ok!!!
Glad everyone involved made a full recovery!
So happy the guys made a full recovery. Bikes can be replaced.
Speeding in groups is always gonna end in tears
damn...glad everyone recovered
Sir waiting for the new videos ❤🙏🏻
Hey. All good to feature it? Full credits will be given to you, of course. Thanks man!
Glad everyone is ok.
So what exactly happened it was kinda hard to hear and a bit confusing
A car brake checked Bartul on the RSV4 causing him to strike a car. Chris swerved to avoid running him over and crashed.
@@650ib thank you sir🤝🏼
I could care less about the bikes,I'm happy the brothas are still here!
650ib God will continue to bless you and be with you and your family, stay safe, I always pray for you because I love you so much, love from Nigeria
Thanks Bro. Much ❤️ from USA
Super sad to see I do hope and pray that everything is doing well
3 Man Rides are best. Nothing more, Nothing less.
Group rides are fun until they’re not. I’m glad everyone made a recovery.
I ride but not like this on public roads this the results.Stop it
KRAZY!!! Glad everyone was ok!!!
I’m a street rider also. Not one of those guys who hit the track one time and never ride on the road again. But I will say, it’s risky out here. Some hard lessons you got to learn out here. If you’re lucky.
Thanks ib for uploading this vid. Imo, there is a valuable "lesson" in this event for ALL of us if not a reminder, of just how dicey this "sport" is. God's enduring mercy & grace "extended" both these guys. *Wise men say: "Ride like you have nothing to prove". Let he that hath an 👂, let him hear. -🍀
Thanks Bro. Well said.
Glad everyone is ok. Everyone was blessed it could've been worse bikes can be replaced people can't. Be safe out there.
ZX10R 🔥🔥💪💪
Glad to hear everyone is for the most part ok ....Ride safe stay up on 2s Everyone!!!!!
All I heard was “new bike build series new bike build series” man how are the riders.😂😂
so glad they were able to recover could have been sooooooo much worse very sorry about the build bike may need to not ride them when they will be given away but most of all glad they are ok thanks for showing this now maybe some of the younger riders will see just how bad just riding normal can be when it comes to ignorant drivers stay safe ib
Unfortunate situation, glad the individuals are ok.
It's really a terrible accident Sir,,, hope this types of accidents never happen on any Superbikes or any other motorcycles. Hope the riders are fully recovered now. Seeing burning any motorcycle is really a dangerous view for me.. Ride Safe Sir 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Hi there, would it be alright if I feature your video for my compilation? Full credit guaranteed!
Yes
@@650ib Thank You very much!
I was worried and concerned for the riders, but when IB was running to the Aprilia with the extinguishing can and the bike blew up, I chuckled a little bit when he stopped, said, "fuck that!" , threw the can down and said, "I ain't know firefighter!" 😅😅😅 glad everyone is 👍
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 That blast scared me
@@650ib I bet!
Put a song before the smack down like older days ❤
Will do.... I forgot 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Must have hurt 650ib heart a little. Considering he bough the parts and build the bike with zach.
Sounds like he wasn’t ready for that bike could be wrong glad everyone okay
Damn... such a beautiful build! What a shame
So sad but glad everyone turned out to be okay the bikes can be rebuilt lives cant.
Hi my friend, is it okay if I introduce you in my next video? Of course, I will give you full credit. Thank you !
Yes
Look what you guys did to the highway! 🤦🏾♂️
Hey, can I add this video to my forthcoming compilation? It would be very useful for starting up my channel. Thanks in advance! (:
That's a lot of damage on that car there's no way excessive speed wasn't involved. Don't race around other road users you're lucky there wasn't a fatality
Exactly!
Exactly my thought
Hope everyone is ok 😇🙏🏾🙏🏾
It’s just mind blowing how incredibly naive people are in the comments who believe he made a full recovery after crashing into a car and laying nearly motionless on the highway just like you believe there was no excessive speed just because somebody told you that 🤦 common sense people he basically said he made a full recovery when he was still on the ground barley moving and everyone cheers yaaa full recovery my prayers go out to those guys and 650 is a great guy but to post no excessive speed means that these 2 experienced riders were doing the speed limit when they crashed and full recovery is indicative of 100% perfect health when was the last time you crashed into a car going way over 100 mph and made a full recovery in 3 minutes
This accident occurred in 2022 Mate 😷
On the straight line crash like this ....what will happend on the real road with curves....and nobody in car doesn t have fire extigni......
Hello! Can I feature this video for my youtube project? I'll credit you with watermark on screen. Thanks in advance.
Smackdowns can turn into mandowns in a blink! Glad everyone recovered RIP aprilia.
Jesus.!! Glad they made a full recovery and everyone else made it out ok.
why arent you helping the guy.....you chasing the bike!!!
Hi. Is it okay to use your clip on my UA-cam channel? Thanks in advance.
Wait is that Chris that helps build the bike?
Lots of metaphors in this one.
⚖️👁️👁️⚖️The Road isn't a Race Track!!
I hope you are all well that is the most important thing
I totaled my Aprilia seven months ago because a car turned out in front of me. It caught on fire and everything just like that, riding in Florida is not the same anymore I bought new speed white factory love the bike just don’t ride on the streets as much, was riding it yesterday and the cut me off, I’d rather stick to the track
Live and learn.
Wow! 😳🤕😫
so someone was messing around, came in too hot, and this happened. got it. just ride normally, this wouldn't have happened.