How The English Came To Rule Ireland
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- Опубліковано 6 жов 2023
- The relationship between England (later Britain) and Ireland in the past several centuries has been complicated to put it mildly. For a long time, that relationship has been a colonial one as Britain saw Ireland as a part of its empire. But how did that relationship begin? In order to understand that, we have to look to the middle ages, specifically the twelfth century, and the Anglo-Norman invasion of Ireland.
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Recommendations for further reading:
-Bartlett, Robert. The Making of Europe: conquest, colonization, and cultural change, 950-1350 (1993).
-Booker, Sparky. Cultural Exchange and Identity in Late Medieval Ireland: the English and the Irish of the four obedient shires (2018).
-Downham, Clare. Medieval Ireland (2018).
-Frame, Robin. Colonial Ireland: 1169-1369 (1981).
-Smith, Brendan, ed. Ireland and the English World in the Late Middle Ages: essays in honour of Robin Frame (2009).
-Sposato, Peter. "The Perception of Anglo-Norman Modernity and the Conquest of Ireland." In Comitatus 40 (2009): 25-44.
All images used in this video are either my own, in the public domain, under fair use, or under creative commons (whence they shall be credited appropriately)
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Outro music: Laid Back Guitars by Kevin MacLeod, CC BY-SA 4.0
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#ireland #history #medievalhistory #medieval #middleages #educational #irishhistory #england #englishhistory #geraldofwales #norman #dublin #leinster #churchhistory #conquest
I see this video has started getting a lot of attention and views lately, which is great! I hope you all enjoy it.
I've also noticed several recurring questions and comments which I would like to address here:
-Many people are noting that this was a Norman (and thus French) invasion and not an English one. This is neither fully right nor wrong. Yes, the invasion was led by the Norman nobility in England. However, most of those who came to Ireland were from England (and Wales) and saw themselves as English (or Welsh). As I noted, by the late 1100s, a good portion of the local aristocracy in England, although of Norman origin, were themselves Anglicising, and many of them spoke English as a first language. French would continue being spoken by the Royalty and upper nobility in England, and it would continue to be the language of court, politics, and literature because of strong ties to France and the English lands in France, but those who didn't have those ties were more closely tied to their locality and adopted English. In fact, we see the same thing with the Norman lords who settle in Ireland and begin to consider themselves Irish, even when they do not adopt Gaelic. Not that this really matters, since saying this was a Norman invasion and not an English one is kind of nonsensical when even the French speaking Normans in England considered themselves English. They were part of England, that was their kingdom. The division between Norman and English was much more one of social class at this point, not of ethnicity.
In addition to this, neither the invasion nor the control of Ireland was entirely Norman. Norman knights may have led the invasion, but they were accompanied by Englishmen (and Welshmen and others). But in the settlement and governance of Ireland, the English actually played a much bigger role. Many immigrants to Ireland were English (as I noted) and they wound up being the most powerful group in English Ireland, filling most of the government positions and making up the burger classes in the cities, dominating trade and artisanship.
For both of these reasons, most historians of the era today reject (or at least dislike) the older tendency to refer to these events as the "Anglo-Norman" invasion, since it puts too much emphasis on the Normans and assumes a distinction which is modern and which would have meant a lot less at the time.
-Another comment is that "the English didn't really take over Ireland." Sometimes this is because responsibility is put solely on the Normans (which I've just addressed above), or because the medieval venture to take over Ireland was, largely, a failure (or it's some kind of nationalistic statement that the Irish people will always be free or something like that). I chose this title in order to evoke the origin of English/British rule over Ireland. Even though it didn't completely bring about the control of Ireland, and it largely failed to hold much by the end of the middle ages, this is the origin of the claim which would lead to British imperialism over Ireland, as I note in the video's conclusion. It's an imperfect title, but of all the ideas I could come up with, it was the most accurate one which still rolled off the tongue. I didn't want to just say "Normans" because of the reasons stated above and because that removes the connection which these events had with later Anglo-Irish relations.
I realise not everyone who left these comments are going to see this one, but there are far too many comments to reply to, and I hope it will inform those of you who watch this video in the future. My objective is to bring accurate, scholarly information to you all, and sometimes that conflicts with what people have learned over the years, especially if it's from popular narratives. I am, of course, not without fault, but I do a lot of research for these videos, and I encourage you to look into the sources I've listed in the description.
I wish to disagree with your first claim that it was not a Norman Invasion.
Here's why, at the time of the invasion the Normans did not see themselves as English. even after 100 years of holding the English crown these "elites" still spoke french, and did for a long time after, some probably did speak Saxon-Anglo-Saxon but Norman French was still what the spoke at home and at court.
They took their lead in Politics, fashion and religion from Normandy.
The Angevin Empire, half of France, England, Wales, Parts of modern Scotland and Ireland.
The Court of this empire was Angers in Anjou, and at Chinon in Touraine.
Both in France, not London, not even in England.
Empire Plantagenêt or House of Plantagenet.
Angevin comes from the tile Count of Anjou one of the the Duke of Normandy and King of England held along with Aquitaine etc.
So there is no way these Normans seen themselves as English, most "English" seen themselves as Anglo Saxon at the time.
Those Anglo Saxons had a different reason to be in Ireland, they were tied via serfdom or had swore an oath to the Norman's so as not to have their lands stripped and given to Normans, also in many cases killed.
It could also be called an Irish invasion as it was instigated by the deposed Irish king of Leinster, Dermot MacMurragh)
Lets not forget the Roman Pope (Catholic), he gave express permission to invade Ireland to cement his power and influence in Ireland and Britain.
Now lets just accept the invasion was anything BUT an English invasion can we?
It is just plain wrong
@davidsoulsby1102 buggerall what u think. History shows otherwise. The people of England "the English - in the 12th century were a hodgepodge of the descendants of Angles Saxons Freisans Jutes Danes others and yes even Normans (all those who are the ancestors of the English today) - the languages spoken were varied and modern English didn't exist. What did exist was the English Crown and it was Henry II King of England whose family had already intermarried with both the Anglo-saxon and Scottish Royal families. An invasion planned by Henry decades prior to Diarmait MacMurchada hiring a bunch of mercenaries. Most notably Henry funnily enough allegedly got his permission to invade from the only English Pope ever. A permission widely believed to have been a forgery or at least based on another heavily altered document
Regardless of any of that- It was Henry II King of England who invaded and laid claim to Ireland in 1171 at the head of a large army described in contemporary accounts as English. A claim perpetuated by every subsequent English and later British monarch in succesion right up to relatively recent times
Htler was Austrian but no one would ever seriously try to claim Austria invaded Poland well maybe some "English: might with the logic of some of the comments hereabouts
Thanks for that - reckon a lot of the populist views of the Normans vs the English are informed more by popular Victorian novels such as Robin Hood than actual historical sources
The Normans are still the ruling class in Britain, the working class are predominantly Celts. Even if some English went to Ireland with the Normans the Normans were in charge.
@willyhill7509 ah away with thst scheite - the English today are the descendants of a hodgepodge of Angles Saxons Freisans Jutes Danes Normans and goodness knows what else. One hundred years after the arrival of the Normans in 1066, a chronicler wrote that 'The two nations had become so mixed that it is scarcely possible today, speaking of free men, to tell who is English and who is of Norman race'
A great summary as always, the Gaelicisation of some of the Norman landowners is particularly interesting because I’m not aware of it really happening anywhere else in England to that extent, although I might just be completely ignorant in that regard
There was near zero gaelic influence in England
@@Patrick3183 The Highlands are Irish colonies. The Irish converted the Anglo-Saxons and brought them into the Catholic church. There are numerous Irish colonies in Whales, Yorkshire, Cumbria, and Lincolnshire (although many of these were settled by the Anglo-Irish); and Irish migrations into London. It wasn't until the protestant reformation did the English sit firmly as the powerhouse of the Isles. Ireland was a loyal fiefdom of the Papal States and had more influence into England than England had influence into Ireland, until Pope Alexander III sold Ireland to the Normans-- and the English and Irish intermingled and exchanged heavily with one another through the Pale and through Chester and Bristol.
Weren't the Normans in England eventually anglicized? I'm pretty sure that's what happened eventually. So we shouldn't be surprised to see the Normans in Ireland becoming more Gaelic.
@@joanhuffman2166300 years the English spoke French as it’s official language so no. they more influenced us until we started speaking a more latinised English in 1362
I don’t think the Normans who arrived in England were still alive in 300 years
@noodles5492 300 years the English did not speak French, the overlord Norman conquerors spoke French. Still, they had to learn English so they could order the servants, serfs and peasants. Somewhere along the way, the descendants of the Normans were assimilated into English culture, although they certainly impacted the English language and culture too.
This film should be on British tv, main channel, prime time.
What because it’s complete nonsense lol. Typical American talking bollocks lol
First time viewer from Ireland,have to say very well done, good work, one of the most informative and nuanced videos on Ireland for a while.
Another brilliantly researched video. Thank you, for such informative videos - and you're presentation is also quite well done: you have amazing diction and cadence, a pleasure to listen to every lesson.
Thank you for the kind words
The best account of this period that i have ever heard, and i've heard alot. Your video fills in all the blanks and gives me the important links, fleshing out the 'drivers' of the Norman invasion. I have enjoyed listening and re-listening to sections. Can't thank you enough. Delighted to subscribe. G Ire
A superbly accessible analysis of a complex subject.
I'm sad to say that very few people even in Ireland know precisely how the island came to be under the governance of the English. I myself am a keen student of history, but I know far, far more about the history or Britain and Europe than I do of my native land. This is something that I am slowly correcting.
Thank you for this video.
There was no English invasion, dare I say no English settlement of Ireland either! It was all the doing of the papist Normans who invaded and settled Ireland! Pre Norman England had no habit of invading Ireland and enjoyed good relations with the Irish across the sea.
@ProfessorOFanthropology979 yeah sure - it was the Normans kicked out of most of Ireland in 1922😅
@@emcc8598 “kicked out?” You were given independence, there was no British military defeat that warrants the statement “we kicked them out”
@@ProfessorOFanthropology979 Ah that always gets the brits sense of superiority lol - yup yez were kicked out of most of the country and good riddance
@@ProfessorOFanthropology979 yup exactly that - always gets a reaction 🤣 The brits "gave" nothing - its literally called the war of Independence
Congratulations and many thanks for this. Quality work, in my humble opinion.
Wonderful video, very informative. Many thanks!
A well balanced survey of Anglo Ireland. Well done.
Chuffed to have found this. There is a lot of good content on UA-cam. However, every now and again a gem like this comes along 👌
Very interesting and clearly explained. Thank you.
I really enjoyed this video, Some great information well presented.
marvelously concise and interesting, thanks.
This helped to fill in some of the gaps I had about the era.
Thanks
Excellent production and presentation .
One of the best telling of the Norman Conquest of Ireland story I’ve ever heard. Great job.
The Normans were invited here by the King of Leinster. De Clare was eventually persuaded it would be worth his while. Better known as Strongbow.
@@kierandoran8196True but by this time a lot of them had intermarried with the English and that's why they are called Anglo-Normans
@@SandileNgwenya-gv7nx They were actually French the Anglo Saxon Chronicle does not speak of Normans conquering England but Frenchman. If that's not enough the famous Bayeux tapestry also refers to the invaders as French. English did not become the language of English government until the time of Henry IV in 1461.
@@freebeerfordworkers Nope by the 12th century it was Henry II King of England who invaded Ireland setting sail from Britain in 1171 the same Henry whose family had already intermarried with both the Anglo-saxon and Scottish Royal families with a contemporary chronicler noting that by that time it was almost impossible to tell who was English and whobwas Norman. And it certainly wasn't the Normans kicked out of most of Ireland in 1922...
@@emcc8598 Maybe so but all English government business was conducted in French for another 200 years. As to who is English and who is not 17th century English officers were saying the same thing in Ireland. The population was so mixed they couldn't say who was Irish and who was not.
As for kicking them out in 1922 that's a fantasy.
It was best summed up by the old gangster Churchill "If there was a second great flood as the waters receded the dreary steeples of Fermanagh and Tyrone would emerge from the water to carry on their ancient feud.
They were so completely **** **** after the disaster of WW1 they just wanted out. As Lord Birkenhead one of the treaty negotiators said when the Civil War started, It is only right that the people who started this revolt are going to have to put it down.
Love your channel
Great video! You are good at this :))
Im a Geraldine/ FitzGerald/ Desmond descendant through my maternal grandfathers line. It was one of my ancestors who got the norse mercenaries off the beach and gained a foothold for the english. Ironic in we lost title after the Desmond rebellions for refusing to starve the people at their cousin elizabeth 1's royal command....rip, james, edward, and thomas❤
Cmon, how do u can possibly know😂
Normans.
Well explained. Thanks.
Incredible video. i had never heard about this conquestador time in Irish history
Good content. Thx
Thanks!
Thank you!
Thank you for being so intelligent! Please don't let this go to your head. I really appreciate your very detailed and thoughtful presentation of history. How did you come across and synthesize this narrative? Bless you.
@@sarala9794 lots of research combined with several years studying medieval history 😆 but even so, it's not easy and I've had to gloss over lots of things
You made a mistake around 14:30 - there was no English nobility to speak of in the 11th century. The indigenous aristocracy had been completely replaced by Normans.
The so called indigenous aristocracy of England prior to the Normans were a hodgepodge of the descendants of Angles Saxons Freisans Jutes and also Danes - the English of the 12th century being the inhabitants of England regardless of whatever mix of ethnicities were prevalent at that time. One hundred years after the Normans arrive in England, an chronicler wrote that 'The two nations had become so mixed that it is scarcely possible today, speaking of free men, to tell who is English and who is of Norman race'
@@emcc8598yes but how many men were ' free' ? , most of the population , the serfs weren't free , they were the property of their lord who was norman, free men were people like the barons , also norman , the clergy also norman , the only ' free' english would of been artisans who were in guilds ,90% of the population wasn't ' free '
@Smokemeakipper41 not just Normans - an estimated 20-30% were designated slaves in Anglo-saxon times. Ethnicity had nowt do do with any of it but at least the Normans eventually got rid of slavery
*Norman invasion of England then also most of Ireland, descendants of William the conqueror still hold a lot of power and land in Britain today👍
Especially his descendant the current king ;)
Yes 10 years ago I lived in a house and should have paid a £1 a year rent for the land it lived it stood on to a family that owned it for 600 years. They never tried to collect so I never tried to pay so in my own way I was defying Norman tyranny
Well done on successfully navigating concisely a multitude of subtleties. No mean feat.
Excellent
Just discovered your channel - very impressed. Subscribed today. You deliver your lecture's in a gripping way. If you don't do this professionally, you should think about doing it. My history lecturer's could have learnt much from your delivery.
Very good video
Such an informative video. I'm from Ireland and it's great to see the bigger picture here.
first class history, thankyou.
Very interesting, please at sometime extend this to the other years you mentioned at the end. Interesting how the north and north west that was more resistance to English, is now Northern Ireland.
Not all of it. 6 counties of Ulster were separated from the rest of the country and form Northern Ireland. Donegal,Cavan and Monaghan are in the Republic of Ireland. Driving from the Antrim coast to Derry, which I once did, you go into Ireland and back out again...
Briain O'Cuiv wrote a great book about the History of Ireland
Very good. Should be shown in schools.
Really excellent scholarship, well researched, balanced and well narrated. I think it is interesting how sensitive some English nationalists are to their own history.
You did a great job with the Irish place names and did not rape my ears like many non Irish people who try to pronounce irish names and places
I’d rather hear Irish names Anglicized
@@Patrick3183I'm sure you would-no different to the Germans...
Long live Ireland
I hear that Ireland is subject to a new invasion.
21:10 where is this picture from?
Is it a depiction of the Irish?
It doesn't actually depict an Irishman specifically, it's a generic "wild man." In truth most didn't see Irish people as quite that wild, but it was the same sort of idea of the uncivilized people living in the woods.
@@studiumhistoriaeI have a replica map of Ireland on which "the wild Irish" are depicted in the usual fashion, believe it's from the 1500s.
Oh such a vexed issue!
You can say it was a Norman invasion, not an English one, but it did occur about a century after the Norman invasion of Britain. So it raises the question of when you consider the Norman descended rulers of Britain to be "the english". Certainly it wasn't an invasion by the Anglo-Saxon or Welsh of pre Norman Britain. But on the other hand by the late 11th century, the Anglo Normans were the same English inhabiting Britain today.
This highly pedantic argument comes across as a battle between those trying to pin blame on the English of today or deflect it.
As this occurred over 800 years ago it really is moot.
That aside, it was the 1100s and in that time any lands lacking a strong cohesive power structure and armies, was going to be invaded. It happened all over Europe, and to Britain a number of times.
Recently I discovered I am a direct descendant of Sir Phillip DeCourtney the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland at the end of the 14th century . It makes learning about what the English did to the Irish a lot more personal and saddening
Normans
@@lervish1966lol it certainly wasn't the Normans kicked out of Ireland in 1922 😅
@@emcc8598 It was the Normans who took over Ireland and England.
@lervish1966 Nope it was Henry II King of England who invaded Ireland in 1171 at the head of what was described in contemporary sources as a large English army who invaded Ireland and claimed the country for the English Crown. A claim perpetuated by every subsequent English and later British monarch right up to relatively recent times
@@emcc8598 Yes, England got dragged into Irish affairs by the Normans. 800 years of entanglement thanks to the imperialistic Normans. So by 1922, of course, the Normans have thoroughly changed the psyche and governance of England. It doesn't change the fact that it was the ruling Normans in the 12th century who were calling the shots, not the Anglo-Saxons.
Anglo-Saxon English never had a bad relationship with the Irish. Northumberland and Oswald had a major connection with the Irish and Irish church through St.Aidan. That all changed come the Normans, who did have an aggressive imperialistic drive - they took England after all -
Maybe if the Irish hadn't been piratically raiding Britain for centuries the Normans wouldn't have felt the need to invade?
Really good detail in this video. Good highlighting of the famine of the 1310s as this impacted much of wider Europe and the world, probably as a result of short term climate impact from volcanic eruption. The plague arrived in the mid 1300s around the same time as the 100 Years War started between France and England, and Ireland was pretty much left to its own devices. Henry VII had some concerns about Ireland as two pretenders based themselves there in the late 15th century, but left it to his deputies to oversee the limited governance in place at that stage.
The real conquest started with Henry VIII in 1540, when he declared himself King of Ireland, the first English monarch to claim the title. Having lost France and rejected Rome, Henry could attend to Ireland as the Fitzgeralds of Kildare, thoroughly Gaelicised and based just outside the Pale, challenged English rule. The rest, unfortunately, is history... and not of the benevolent kind.
"Henry VII had some concerns about Ireland"
Something of an understatement they allied themselves with his Yorkist enemies and sent an army to overthrow him Only being defeated at the Battle of Stoke Field in 1487. Having neither the time or money for a campaign he was content to compel the Irish Parliament to have all their laws signed off in London and leave the actual running of the country to the Fitzgeralds and others.
This is compared to his treatment of rebel English Aristocrats who usually had the heads chopped off.
@@freebeerfordworkers Thanks for that. Am I correct in saying that the Ormonds supported Lancaster before Bosworth? A mistake many modern commenters make is assuming that Ireland (or any country) had a strong national identity in the 15th century.
It was at least as fragmented as England of the Roses with different lordships backing different monarchs to suit themselves.
@@AnBreadanFeasa I honestly couldn't say about the Ormond's but you're certainly right about there being no national feeling. The Irish Parliament generally seems to have supported the Yorkists and most historians agree they had more legal right to the throne but not much more.
As Shakespeare portrays Lord Stanley was crucial to Henry's victory but a few years later his younger brother was executed for fighting against him at Stoke Field.
European politics of the time make Mafia Godfathers look like models of fidelity.
@@freebeerfordworkers Just asked MS Copilot if Ormond supported Lancaster and the reply was:
Sent by Copilot:
The Earls of Ormond were supporters of the Lancastrian side during the Wars of the Roses. James Butler, 5th Earl of Ormond, was a staunch Lancastrian and supporter of Queen consort Margaret of Anjou. After his death, his brother, John Butler, 6th Earl of Ormond, also backed the Lancastrian cause.
This is web AI so to be taken with some scepticism but it does chime with what I thought. My rule of thumb is whoever Kildare supported (definitely York and Simnel) was opposed by the Butlers.
By the way, I support the philosophy of your username 😝
@@freebeerfordworkers You might find this one interesting... ua-cam.com/video/a6uMm_LQ1sc/v-deo.html
I had heard of the Battle of Pilltown in 1462 but thought it was just another Kildare Ormond conflict. This video puts it in Wars of the Roses context.
Cool voice Bro
There was nothing "Anglo" about it. The English had been occupied since 1066. And are still occupied, with their MPs and other officials required to swear allegiance to their Norman occupiers, since the 1700s, the Hanovero-Normans, ever since!
Bro stop please 🥺 you listen like a german.
22:18 Sorry but Richard who?
There is a lot of salt in this comments section...
The 'Papists' were the Anglo-Normans, it seems.
Unfortunately the same families still own all the lands of England as they did in 1067
No they don't. Plenty of argy bargy and land seizure since then. Lots in fact.
Yes 20 years ago I lived in a house and legally should have paid £1 a year rent for the ground it stood on to the family that had owned it for 600 years. They never tried to collect and I never tried to pay - my little stand against Norman oppression.
“christian in name but pagan in fact” st bernard of Clairvaux is said to have remarked of the Irish
Can you link the source
It's from the "Liber De vita et rebus gestis Sancti Malachiae Hiberniae Episcopi" (The life and death of Saint Malachy, bishop of Ireland). There's an English translation by Robert T. Meyer you could probably look for.
@@studiumhistoriaeThing was Bernard of Clairvaux had no first hand knowledge of Ireland or the Irish. Sources accredit his vehement (anti-Irish) sentiments to Bernard's apparently passionate friendship with Irish archbishop Malachy of Armagh - with Malachy siding with Bernard's stance on church doctrine against the stance of the Irish church of that time. Of note following a visit to France - Malachy died in Bernard arms and was buried in Bernard’s habit.
This wasn't an English invasion. At this time the English were still an occupied people living under the overlordship of the Normans, with no nobility of their own and their language reduced to peasent status. This was a French invasion launched from England.
I know but they enjoy playing victim lol
I beg to differ.the normans as vikings invided France and were given Normandy as fiefdom on the promised they would not longer ravage France.they were in fact vikings parading as french...you may change the costume not the personality.
@@andreebesseau6995 twaddle they were catholic heroes
who put a end to the viking age
lmao, such cope
Art McMorrow??
I am enjoying this a lot and thank you... Please though pronounce placenames correctly...CONnacht not ConNAKT and KilKENny not KILkenny. I'm also confused by your treatment of the legal system...did the English not introduce English feudal law which of course would have meant that for example tenant farmers of whatever stratum would have had rights different from landowners, ie nothing to do with being Irish per se?
The English legal system was introduced for those of English legal status. The Irish were excluded, however and treated legally like serfs regardless of their position, though as I mentioned it was possible for the Irish to gain English legal status, and this was probably not all too uncommon in the upper echelons. By default, though, they were excluded, so, for example, even a free Irish artisan in the city needed a legal sponsor as a serf would, even though an Englishman in the same position could sue and be included in the English legal system in his own right. However, an Irish serf would see little to no difference from an English serf.
@@studiumhistoriae thank you x
The Irish had invaded Scotland much earlier but funnily enough this never gets mentioned
Au contraire - that fairy story gets dragged up by anglos all the time. The "Irish did no such thing btw- there being no nation state of Ireland or Scotland at that time. Not only that but there is absolutely no archaeological or historical evidence for any invasion of northern part of the island of Britain by any tribal groups from the island of Ireland
When sea level were lower there were close together inhabited islands, Dogger land from Ireland to Scotland and what latter were two countries was one inhabited area, ancestors of Gaelic people. When sea level rose then the island were under water but the two future countries were close enough to see each other and actively trade with each other.
@@emcc8598 Archeological evidence is inconclusive because it does not exist, not because it has been proven one way or the other. The most complete evidence set is linguistically, and the Argyll area place names are gaelic, not pict or briton. By the way, there are plenty of Irish historians who believe the Fergus the Great legend, of him moving from Antrim to Argyll.
@gmatthews7632 Dynastic stories written down by Christian monks centuries after the events were supposed to have taken place aside - it remains archaeological and historical evidence todate show no evidence of any invasion regardless. And that is backed up by recent genetic research which shows the populations of the region straddling north eastern Ireland and north western Britain have not significantly changed in over 2 millenia. A population which like the rest of these islands originally spoke one of a variety of celtic languages - with the coastal and island region between the two islands likely been gaelic speaking for most of that period. Why would a mere 12 miles of sea between mark a border when there was no nation states and at a time when related tribal groups from both the islands of Ireland and Britain migrated traded and raided between the two regions with tribal groups from the island of Britain migrating to Ireland and vice versa
It's nine miles to Scotland from Ulster.
intersting,
however...
you are forgetting that wales, had to be occupied by the normans first....before ireland was invaded,
and much of the so called anglo normans,... were Cambro normans...
including the de clare dynasty,....
the famous *strongbow* and even the ancestry of the the geraldines, had orgins in wales,
this is often ignored or totally overlooked.....
the different dynamic to both england & ireland...
,indeed the princes of gwynedd even had ancestry of BRIAN BORU* the emperor of the gael,
it is the *geraldis cambrensis* of both norman mixed royal welsh blood..
that gives the biggest ever bias against the gaelic culture, language, a legacy of *propaganda & opinions*,
rather than a realistic and fair objective of gaelic culture, language and life....
Edward VIII was the last king of Ireland. He reigned till his death in 1972.
He abdicated
Please note that "othering" is a very common, and, in fact, universal aspect of human perception. Take a look at the minimal groups paradigm from social psych sometime. That said, it comes in a variety of flavors, and one way of understanding cultural differences is to see the ways in which group boundaries have been drawn throughout history. I hope this helps, and thank you for the video--enjoyed it a great deal!
In simple terms, its tribalism.
They all tend to make someone 'the other'.
Applying postmodern thought to the dark ages is exhausting
Anglo-Norman invasion? Okay right off the bat you're wrong. The King of Leinster went to the court of the Anjevin Empire to seek help in fighting his enemies. Diarmait mac Murchada went to France to seek an alliance. Henry Plantagenet then allowed Diarmait to gather a mercenary army. He brought Bretons, Welsh, and Normans with him back to Ireland.
British?
Yeah and Htlercwas Austrian-
regardless of ethnicity Henry II was King of England and claimed Ireland for the English Crown- a claim perpetuated by every subsequent English and later British Crown right up to relatively recent times- funny that
@@emcc8598 Delusional, England was backwater full of sheep, the Anjevins were French, their courts are in France.
Whole of Ireland except northern Ireland like whole apple except for half the Apple
The English are a Germanic Invader people who were conquered by the Norman-French in 1066. From that time until reflectively recently, the English had no say in their own rule. The invasion of Ireland was also a Norman-French Invasion, it was the Norman - French Kings of England and the Norman-French aristocracy that invaded Ireland.
The foederati who fought for the British centuries earlier were not invaders although other English kinfolk who came over such as the Saxons definitely were invaders. Although off-topic here, still worth pointing out as early English history also gets-over simpified.
@@neilog747 After the Romans left Britain, the Irish tribes spent hundreds of years raiding Britain for treasure and slives (purposefully mispelt).
The Danish and Irish created Dublin as a slive port, where they took Brits before taking them to the Mediterranean slive markets to sell.
@@garyphisher7375whatever makes you feel better. I’m sure
3000 years ago, some hindus slapped a brit in the face or whatever.
Dublin was founded by the Vikings along with Wexford and Waterford for agricultural land and trade hubs not just to enslave and raid they did also enslave and raid peoples which was also happening in mainland Britain where they had carved out almost a third of england ,known as the Danelaw,and built many settlements such as most of York was developed after Viking settlement and a lot of their language forms the root of much of the English language today where as there is scant evidence of Scandinavian influence on the native Irish language as they established a few coastal settlements in Ireland they did the majority of their slaving and raiding from england and the nordics to mainland Europe Ireland was much colder and poorer unless you wanted to steal livestock as they had very little else
The English are celts the Anglo Saxon is a political construct because of the sax Coburg monarchy they needed to lie then because of the wars with Germany the monarchy changed its name to Windsor, you awake now 😂
2024?
3:30 William the Conqueror's culture was NOT FRANKISH. It was French. Big difference. France is a Romance country, Frankish people are Germanic. Don't let the name "France" fool you. William spread Romance, Latin-based, Gallo-Roman culture into England, not Germanic culture from Frankish lands, which were basically in Western and Northwest Germany.
Make sure you say all that to Charlemagne...
Meantime you need to read this...
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franks
@@alexanderSydneyOz I've read that and studied the topic in college. Charlemagne was a Frank, lived in what is now Germany, and was not Gallo-Romance in terms of his culture.
I am not sure if all persons in Ireland were Christian
So the north-west of Ireland wasn't controlled by England till Henry VIII?
john de courcey conquered the north east, however the power of the normans declined after edward the bruces campaign
It was the Scottish who colonised Northern Ireland while the English colonised mainly Dublin and southern parts hence Ulster Scots .
@@insulaarachnid most of Ireland wasn't controlled by the English until Tudor times and after - see the Plantations of Ireland for less partisan account than given by some commentators hereabouts
We spoke Irish
High King = War Pope
Remarkable how this guy asserts what "The English" thought of "The Irish" in a time before the people in England spoken English and rhe people in Ireland were a mix of Norse and indigenous peoples.
This video will really rile the Welsh too! The Mabinogian and the Red Book of Hergst reveals how the various authors of those Welsh histories regarded the Hibernians.
Saxon *is* English, and the Anglo-Saxons were English (‘Anglish’).
The red book is a collection of fairy stories and Anglo-saxon propaganda written by Christian monks centuries after the stories were supposed to have taken place
In the 11th century Ireland consisted of eight main kingdoms all fighting each other and when one of these kings was driven out he approached King Henry II to recruit Knights to regain his throne. As England had just finished a civil war there were plenty of unemployed knights around and Henry was happy to see them go.
Things started to unravel when he realised some of them outranked him in the aristocratic system and not only that they were setting up as Kings in Ireland themselves. It was an Oh **** moment and he knew he had to go to Ireland to remind them he was still their boss. He was no more interested in the riches of Ireland than the riches of Zululand it was a Frenchman setting up in the king business there that was the problem. Having confirmed his authority he was happy holding a strip of the coast and a few strategic towns.
The rest was left to the Irish and Anglo French both of whom had the same patriotism and loyalty Ireland and England as Mafia Godfathers to the US. There it remained for almost 400 years the English garrison seldom amounted to more than 2000 men at key points mainly on the East Coast all paid for by the English Parliament - much to their annoyance.
The pope's concern about the Catholic Church in Ireland was partly due to it not following the Gregorian system but allowing the persistence of pagan rituals. Among other things the High King had ritual sex with the goddess of the earth as part of his enthronement. The Church has always been understanding in sexual matters but when a Christian King is giving one to the goddess of the Earth they have to do something.
As far as the English regarding the Irish of the time as uncivilised. They were being ruled by a French speaking aristocracy and a Latin speaking church. Their aristocracy had been stripped of their land and power and leading English churchmen replaced with Frenchmen. I doubt they had much time to think about Ireland or the Irish uncivilised or otherwise.
Have to love the invariable whataboutery offered as an excuse for Henry II King of England invading Ireland at the head of what was described by contemporary sources as a large English army in 1171
Regardless of Diarmait MacMurchada's spat with the high King of Ireland, Henry II King of England had been planning the invasion since the 1150s long before Diarmait shows up. One of Henry II’s first royal councils, held at Winchester in September 1155, was called for the specific purpose of organising a conquest of Ireland, over which his brother William would be made king.
Henry just happened to get "permission" to invade Ireland from the only English Pope ever - a permission widely believed to have been a forgery or at least based on another heavily altered document
The invasion of Ireland by the King of England was nothing about any reasons of religious differences but rather Henry as the King of England laying claim to Ireland. With that claim being perpetuated by every subsequent English and later British monarch right up to relatively recent times
Ireland was no more warlike than the numerous kingdoms inhabited by various mixes of Anglo-saxons Danish Welsh and Scottish on the island of Britain with Henry spending the previous two decades fighting his errant barrons. Btw the English views of the Irish were predicated on justifying their invasion in 1171, attempting to make out the Irish were somehow uncivilised at a time when Ireland had a shared culture, language and system of law and renowned for its centres of learning. With the excuses used not much different to those used by other despotic regimes throughout history to justify state orchrastrated invasion and colonisation of their neighbours
@@emcc8598Yes the pope might have been English but by any measure Henry II was French which was why he was buried there along with his wife and most famous son.
It's not a question of whataboutry history is extremely complex with many factors affecting the eventual outcome. It's like an international buffet where there is something to feed any prejudice or conclusion depending on your emotional need.
@@freebeerfordworkers History is indeed complex - it remains Henry II was the King of England - the same who in one of his first royal councils, held at Winchester in September 1155 called for the specific purpose of organising a conquest of Ireland. Henry invaded in 1171 and claimed Ireland for the English Crown- a claim perpetuated by every subsequent English and later British monarch right up to relatively recent times. We can of course beat around the bush till the cows come home and imagine that Henry wasnt really the king of England because he wasnt of some mystical pureblooded English race or something...
@@emcc8598 Of course he was king of England but he was never English he was a Frenchman plain and simple.
The same went for his son Richard the Lionheart. When the Victorians put up his statue at Westminster it was pointed out he said he would sell England to anyone who would pay for his wars. Not a very English attitude to take
@@freebeerfordworkers And what exactly was "English" in the 12th century? The inhabitants of England were a hodgepodge of the descendants of Angles Saxons Freisans Jutes Danes Britons and yes even Normans - the same whose own descendants would become the English of today. It remains the various ethnicities of the population of the Kingdom of England at that period in history is irrelevant to the fact that Henry as King of England invaded and laid claim to Ireland for the English Crown- a claim perpetuated by every subsequent English and later British monarch
A lot of feeble and wrong statements here. No reference to sources or any idea of this guy"s background.
You may want to look at the video's description, there's a list of sources there. I'll take that over some dude in the comments saying he's wrong
Did Romans ever invade Ireland??
Nope
NO
Dublin founded by the Vikings??
basically yes - founded by Thorgus in the 840's
Dublin was an Irish settlement that existed before the vikings arrived. Vikings gave viking names to their new settlements, e.g. Arklow, Wexford, Waterforf, Limerick. The English name of Dublin is entirely Irish. 'Dubh Linn' = Irish for 'Black Pool', a natural anchorage, and Dublin's Irish name, Baile Ath Chliath means the 'Town on the Ford of the Hurdles", so there was an Irish settlement at the mouth of the river Liffey trading by sea and land with its hinterland and foreign parts before vikings made it their base in the ninth century.
Not sure about the starting point as the Irish invasions of Pictish and British lands was concurrent with Vikings as were the Irish raids down the entire remaining west coast pre dating England completely. Similarly the Papal support for the Norman invasion was critical turning it into a sort of crusade with a far wider demographic influx of soldiers and supporting colonists than just from Normandy and very much a colonial position in England, especially with the Normans Northern English Genocide.
Did English speaking peoples views on the Irish matter much when it was French speaking Normans running the Irish ventures of the Normans? Was English the initial lingua Franca or was that much later?
Ireland invaded and overtook Scotland in the 5th century. (same sorta time the Saxons were coming to England). The Scotti were an Irish tribe. The Picts, (native Caledonians) were driven north. Conquest was the order of the day back then. Everyone was doing it. Even internally in Ireland. 4 kingdoms constantly at war, vying for dominance. To be honest, at the risk of pissing someone off with the truth, there was no 'Ireland' (one nation) until Britain made it so. Same goes for India.
You’re so wrong 😂😂 Scottish we’re heavy in Northern and Western Ireland before the plantation settlements, DNA studies show virtually no Irish in the Western part of Scotland but you find a bunch of Scottish DNA in Western/Northern Ireland.
@@BigRed2Partly true - the most recent genetic research shows that related tribal groups inhabited north eastern part of Ulster and the north eastern parts of what would become Scotland from earliest times. These apparently wete the Scotti of Roman accounts who along with the Picts were noted as raiding Roman settlements in parts of Roman Britain. It wasn't until the ninth century that the Picts and scotti would come together under one King Kenneth McAlpin from which time gaelic became the most common language in Alba and then what only then became known as Scotland
Contrary to the usual tripe trotted out - Ireland was indeed a unified nation with a common language culture and system of law from at least the 5th century, with Ireland divided into fifths (Cuaige) and ruled by regional Kings who voted for a nominal High King of Ireland from amongst themselves. Somethings Britain wouldn't experience until at least 1707
Correct
@@BigRed2 True
Ireland: England's oldest colony
the vikings sold us both as slaves, brits arent that bad
*How the Normans took over ireland
Nah that was the English and later British- the same cnutts who got kicked out of most of Ireland in 1922
Norman’s became the English, the Welsh and some Scott’s are original Britains
Have you heard the latest?
😅Saxon fanny pads
Wow no different to how they saw Africans.
This sounds like the maoists reasons for invading tibet
The 'English' didn't, the Normans did, but don't lets facts be a distraction to us... 👍
Ah you have to love the fairy stories some British tell themselves 😅
Distinction without a difference
@@emcc8598 No idea where you are from, but presumably you are able to read, so do some research and come back and tell us all about it.
@ginojaco Yeah best go look up something else other than those fairy stories 'cos the "The English didn't" version doesn't stand up to historical scrutiny sunshine
Most of Strongbow's troops were Welsh or Cambro-Norman, not English. Strongbow's main powerbase was in South Wales, where his lands were concentrated. Many of Strongbow's lieutenants were sons of Nesta ferch Rhys, a Welsh princess of Deheubarth ,who had children with a number of Norman lords, in and out of wedlock.
What is often ignored is the Irish colonisation of parts of Britain in Late Roman and post-Roman times. Argyll was colonised by the 'Scots' (meaning Irish) of Dal Riada in Ulster. They went on, eventually, to culturally and linguistically wipe out the Picts. The Laigin of Leinster colonised North Wales, where the Lleyn Peninsula is named after them. In South Wales, the kingdom of Dyfed was founded by Irish colonists. No nationality is completely free of sin. I say this out of a sense that balance is required, I have a lot of Irish ancestry myself.
Not at all - The usual BNP types never stop rabbiting on about the populist victory mythology of the "Irish' supposedly invadding/colonising the island of Britain. Thing is there is absolutely no archaeological, genetic or historical evidence for any mass movement of people from Ireland to northern Britain in ancient times.
Bang on correct! She was the "queen bee" of the Norman clan who invaded Wexford 1169
Penance saves nobody
I am very interested in DNA research in Normandy, which is suggesting that the title of this vid should be “How the *Irish* took over Ireland”
Normandy? How so?
@@user-bf3pc2qd9s Some, at least, of the “north men” who settled in Northern France, were from Eastern Ireland, and the population was already mixed. I’d always assumed they’d come down the coast of Northern Europe from Scandinavia. I’m already finding this amusing, for local bickering purposes. Another lesson, to me, to not make assumptions!
@@lkgreenwell ah, that's interesting. Didn't know that. Thank you
@@user-bf3pc2qd9s I’ve only just heard of it - more Brownie Points for the University of UA-cam. The DNA was taken from early Norman graveyards.
Connaught is pronounced 'CONNat'.
Migrants, not immigrants.
The British people had travelled among the British islands long before the Anglo-Normans existed.
Thus, the British (and latterly the 'English') were migrants.
So, England exercised apartheid policies against the Irish, even if the intensity didn't mirror that of say S. Africa or Black Americans. Even so, they certainly tried.
A grossly ahistorical viewpoint on a medieval relationship. I see very few parallels between the two time periods, and they would not have seen it in the same view as you.
@@qboxer1. The Penal Laws 2. Irish people were the first to be portrayed as apes 3. Forced displacement by settlement in Ulster. 4. Punitive measures against Catholic and Protestants nationalists. 5. The Famine. Not exactly the same processes as colonialism in other area but parallels can be drawn.
My reply to this has disappeared twice. Third time lucky...while the colonial experience in Ireland was not the same as in other colonies there were certainly some similar processes, with the effect of subduing the population. What I think is that the objective in Ireland was not to capitalise on unfree labour but to take advantage of the land..in short, they wanted the land cleared of the Irish, or those Irish who would not conform and submit, ie most of them, certainly under Elizabeth I and under the Commonwealth (the Oliver Cromwell one I mean).
... they weren't English ... they were Normans ...
And now ireland will become a caliphate.
And you will grow wings and fly to the sun.
What grass you smoking brother
Athlone akbar🤣🤣🤣 Blame government incompetence not the poor sods looking to make a better life for themselves
Take your pills it’s time for bed grandpa
The Irish people will not allow it. They will Rise Up.
Ireland isn't real.
It was easy.
The 'British' conquered Ireland, not the 'English' who where also conquered by the 'British' during the Norman invasion of the 11th century.
The British included the Scottish and the Scotland wasn’t party to English incursions into Ireland
Imsorry but your knowledge is not good around the Normans.
Care to elaborate?
The english did not take over Ireland.
Even the final conquest in 16 88 was carried out by a, Dutch army.
Partly coreect. Diarmuid McMurrpw was greedy for power
You can't conuer a country that doesn't exist
Ah love the answers from Putins book of invading your neighbours 😅
Oh yes they did lol. Henry II King of England claimed Ireland for the English Crown in 1171. A claim perpetuated by every subsequent English and later British monarch right up to relatively recent times. Htler was Austrian yet no one tries to claim Austria invaded Poland
What is the history behind the existence of the "black irish"?
They have dark hair