DC-8's and some WWII planes actually had leading edge slots. They move more air circulation around the desired surface to increase lift. You see them under the leading edge on main wings to pump up circulation over the top, and on the top to pump up circulation under the bottom for desired nose up pitch authority for the 177. In cruise the air flows straight back until AoA increases enough to create a vacuum at the entrance of the slot. It is a bit of a trade-off since some air is getting through at higher speeds. Some designs have actual door that open up to expose the slot at the desired speeds. MD-11's also have slots [with articulating cover doors] to energize the smaller elevators than the DC-10 had. McDonnell Douglas did that with articulating doors on jets so it is fared over smooth in cruise but allowed smaller wings and tails for field performance and slow flight. So trimable horizontal and slots since the horizontal is relatively small on the 177 make it perform better. Nice 3 point landing though :/
Hey! That's my old bird. Glad to see it's being flown by a great new owner. I do miss her sometimes. All the best and blue skies with the Cardi. Excited to see where you take her
Nice video. I’ve owned my Cardinal for almost 12 years. On takeoff, I don’t reduce RPM until 1000 AGL minimum (that’s when I can return to the departure runway). Also, on landing I prefer 20 deg of flaps. In the event if a go-around, the flaps are already set and control forces are reduced. The extra notch of flaps lowers stall speed by just one knot. I don’t use 30 unless I have to (short field, or obstacle on final, etc.). Enjoy!
Beautiful looking plane. I owned a 1972 177B for 7 years & used it mostly for aerial photography. Great flyer for long trips too. Only recurring issue i had was the nose gear strut had a shimmy upon landing otherwise easy to fly & landings were simple. I truly miss flying her. Thanks for the video!
Bill, this is probably one of my favorite videos that you’ve done in real world flying. The cardinal is such an awesome plane and so unique in the Cessna world. It’s great to see you talk about some of the facts of the airplane and then watching you guys fly it was just awesome. We need one in MSFS lol!
I own B model N34823…..those are the original numbers for the B models….no letters. Anyway welcome to the wonderful world of Cardinals. We’re up the coast from you in the Santa Barbara area. Couple of things….someone else mentioned it but normal takeoff is with 10 deg of flaps. Max performance TO is 15 degas. Cardinals have Fowler flaps which means they move out from the wing before they start to go down. This means they effectively increase the wind area….more lift. Do that same TO with 10 degrees and she’ll lift off at 60ish mph vs. 70. She’ll also climb better if you hold it at best climb. Huge difference. The “slats” on the tail are part of a program called “The Cardinal Rule” and addressed problems with the original 177 (1968). The tail on the originals could stall, when the stick was pulled all the way back….like in a flair, before the wing……resulting in a violent pitch up and subsequent stall. I believe there was actually a fatality or two. The fix was those slats….they effectively keep the air stuck to the stabilator when the stick is pulled back so the main wing stalls before the tail does. If the stick isn’t all the way back you’re not flairing enough with these guys. Just nail your speed and don’t be going too fast else you’ll bounce and experience the dreaded Cardinal crow hop. Last bit is the Carb Heat….hardly ever needed. These guys don’t tend to ice up. Same reason as the Cherokee. Induction is in the area of the exhaust system so they don’t tend to develop ice. Procedure is to pull the heat before you cut the throttle….I do it on the downwind….and look for signs of ice (RPM will go up) if no ice then push it in and leave it there. No need to land with it on and you’ll have one less knob to push in on a go around. Enjoy….my wife and I travel in ours just like you talked about….perfect for two folks, full fuel and bags. She likes to ride in the back thoug😂. Says she can stretch out and relax more….must work….she normally falls asleep 30 mins in. Enjoy.
Hi Bill. I agree with you, the Cardinal is a wonderful airplane. I own two - a fixed gear and a retract. They are both fun and easy to fly, stable platforms with terrific visibility and better than average performance. I think your comments about the useful load, although accurate, are a bit misleading. Yes, with full tanks it is limited to two adults but the reality is most folks will want to make a comfort stop along the way anyway, meaning carrying full fuel is kind of wasting useful load. If you're one who enjoys four hour flights without a pit stop, by all means fill 'er up. If not, leave some fuel in the ground and gain some useful load. I seldom fly with more than 30 gallons and gain another 120# to the useful load. My bladder appreciates it. 🙂
Thanks! Yes, I totally agree. That's the case with any plane really. There is a nuance with this plane that makes that annoying...it has the fuel filler flap STC and is an ordeal to get the dipstick in. Minor thing in the grand scheme of things but it's so much easier to top it off. But when the useful is needed, it's a simple fix.
Welcome to Cardinal Land! Y’all are going to really enjoy this airplane. Mine is a ‘75 177B and my POH calls for 10 degrees of flaps for normal takeoffs; couldn’t tell if yours were extended or if your year model might vary. They really help. Nose wheel steering is sensitive but precise once you get in the groove. Cardinal Flyers Online is a great resource you’ve found and there’s an awesome owner’s community behind you. Please keep the videos coming!
@@nickolson1491from the 1974 POH: “Take-offs are accomplished with the wing flaps set in the 0° to 15° position. The preferred flap setting for normal take-off is 10°. This flap setting (in comparison to flaps up) produces a shorter ground run, easier lift-off, shorter total distance over the obstacle, and increased visibility over the nose in the initial climb-out.” Given the above, why would you take off with the flaps retracted? Preferred is not the same as “optional”.
I totally agree, the modern Corvette supercar raked back front glass. The confluence of windshield and cantilever, no struts. Prominent fin, slotted tail. If this work of art wasn't a bird, Mako would be an apt name. I mean this plane is so gorgeous, a truckload of cash poured onto any 177 bird, in the form of winter red paint with tastefully rendered black accents, could be possibly well worthwhile 👍😎👍 And, sweet touchdown, especially given the newness at the time.
Thanks for the video Bill. Landings looked like buttuh! To me a car like a 911 Turbo or a Shelby Cobra might be better representatives of performance sports cars, but cars like the 53 Porsche 550 Spyder or the 56 Alfa Romeo Giuletta Spider are far better representatives of the ROMANCE of sports cars. These classic sports cars, in my opinion, are more about relaxed sporty driving, for which being able to take in and absorb the beauty of your surroundings are more important than emulating race car performance. In that spirit, it's hard to beat a strut-less high wing plane for the romance of flying! This is especially true if you want to take in the beauty of what's below, whether that be fall foliage in New England or the red rocks of Sedona. I appreciate that benefit of the strut-less design even more than how it helps performance. In fact, if the goal is photography of the landscape below, a strut-less high wing plane becomes almost essential and the last thing in the world that you would want would be a low wing plane. The epitome of high wing planes for photography would be one of the RG versions of the Cardinal, although, only the very last year (1978) had their highest voltage landing gear for fast deployment and retraction of the gear. That's my 2¢. May you always keep the blue side up! P.S. When I hit the lottery I want a turbo-normalized Bonanza for the joys of complex, long distance flying, an RG Cardinal for that in-between performance and view, a Piper Cub with tundra tires for back country flying, tail dragger fun, and keeping stick & rudder skills sharp, and something like AutoGyro's MTOSport for the closest feeling possible that you might be a bird. That's all. Just a few humble aspirations.
@@Bill4LE I saw a video yesterday that reminded me of your comment about turbo normalizing and felt like I should mention this video to you. It SOUNDS like a turbo charged engine that is impossibly good. It's made by DeltaHawk. They've been working for years to get it FAA certified and it finally did get certification. Initial entry is a 180 HP version, model DHK180, but they claim that due to superior torque and thrust curves, that it performs like traditional piston engines of greater HP. They specifically said that during takeoff, that at 1800 RPM (in a Cirrus SR20) that it will firmly push you into the back of your seat. They'll also be introducing more powerful versions of this engine. The main takeaways I remember are... • Burns about 35% to 40% less fuel than comparable AVGAS engine • Burns jet fuel, so you don't have to hunt for 100LL in some parts of the world • Single lever operation (No mixture control... although maybe that loses some of the fun you gained with the added complexity from a constant speed prop 😉) • Turbocharged and supercharged • It starts up, unaided, at temps down to -20, so no need to pre-warm the engine in most cases • It's also perfectly fine with warm starts • Don't have to "baby" your CHTs & EGTs, or worry about shock cooling, like you often do with turbocharged engines. • Projected selling price is about $60,000 Frankly, it sounds too good to be true, but I think it's worth checking out. The title of the video is... "AirVenture 2023: DeltaHawk DHK180" and it's on the AVweb channel. Peace!
great airplane i have a 77 177b love her i like it better than my 182 i had, easier to get into just got thru installing s some radios and a new 230 hp engine in her. with the new enginei can keepup with the 182 where is your front wheel pant. looks terrible without it. i have the long range. i just got back with her from wisconsin i am in washington state. i even have a/c well a ice cooler in her works great. also put on some vortexes i also have a stinson reliant. lol stuff in the 230 ho, you will be happier i wont sell mine. i have had mine for 11 years. new custom paint last year and new leather interior. new engine since the garmin 530 is not supported anylonger, had to get a new radio,
Great video, Bill. Loved the format of talking about the aircraft and then taking it on a flight. Is there a lot to maintaining these planes, and if it's something that you rent, how do you check that the aircraft has been properly maintained?
Proper maintenance can be tricky to spot. There are definitely dodgy shops out there. I guess my advice would be to always do a proper full pre-flight and don't take anything for granted. If something doesn't look/feel right, let someone know. You'll get a sense really quick how good they are by their reaction, how quickly they fix it and how well they fix it.
I was in the market for one of these for a while but I started to get the feeling that you don't buy a Cardinal, you "adopt" a Cardinal as a special little piece of aviation history that needs to be cared for, and it's getting harder and harder to care for them. It's a damned shame they got the early bad rep and never replaced the 172 because of it. I still do go back and look at them from time to time.
Very well put! They are super cool little planes. The aviation industry so different from the auto industry and we unfortunately lose a lot of cool planes for shaky reasons.
@mattj65816 I’ve owned my 1971FG for almost 12 years. Cardinals are no more difficult to care for than other airplanes of similar vintage and performance (eg. 172, 182, Comanche, Grumman Tiger). As the entire fleet ages, maintenance costs will continue to rise, but that’s not unique to the Cardinal.
while both are cantilever wings the 177 has a different airfoil than a 210..in fact it changed in 69 from the previous year...the spar carry thrus are different as well
I’ve wanted to like the cardinal but every time I look at it, it’s like looking at a Skyhawk through a distorted Coke bottle. The windshield and cabin are hideous.
The book recommends 0-15 degrees for normal takeoff. It's basically a tradeoff. Taking off with flaps reduces the ground roll distance but decreases climb performance. In this plane, I want as much climb performance as I can get. Especially out of SNA. Ground roll distance isn't an issue for both runway length and DA reasons so I'd rather just takeoff with 0.
I fly a 77' 177B and never use flaps on takeoff, unless short distance or high density, 98% of flights are zero flaps, always off the ground before 900 feet and climbs right out, put it in the green relax the yolk and flys right off. As for landing, I use 20 degrees, flaps are fowler and massive, in addition nice to know I have 10 degrees of flaps on reserve if need be. Great plane, enjoy, youll find what works for you. im based out of long beach
It's absolutely a trainer. It was designed to be a replacement for the 172. The improvements over the 172 made it a better plane and not a better trainer which was partially the reason it was shorted lived.
You’re both right! 177 with 150hp is definitely a trainer. 177B with constant speed prop fits in the complex category. 177RG is definitely complex category.
Beautiful aircraft, I also own one! I think at 20:19 there is the answer why it was given up by Cessna. It’s just too difficult to land. Can you remember what your airspeed approx. at 20:18 was? My experience says you have to nail 70mph/62 knots over the numbers and hold it there. If you are slight faster, it can balloon 3-5 ft high if you pull somewhat more in the flare. If you don’t flare properly (you pull as you would in a 172) your front wheel will touchdown first, resulting in a crow hop. This ist why all average 172 pilots didn’t like it.
Exactly right! I had been shading faster on approach and have it sorted out now. Being in front of the wing like just takes getting used to. No idea what my airspeed was but I guarantee it was too fast.
Too difficult to land? What are you flying? A pre-stab slots '68? I own a '70B and a '76RG and none of what you described is accurate about landing either of my airplanes.
@nickolson1491 it's just different. I agree that "too difficult" isn't the right way to put it but it's different enough from a 172 that it takes a little time to nail it. I think they land fantasticly.
I really own a 68 with original stab. It’s engine has been replaced by a Lycoming O360, still with fixed prop. What I meant with “too difficult”: It just doesn’t land like a 172 and definitely needs some time to learn it properly. For me it just isn’t a plane for beginners.
DC-8's and some WWII planes actually had leading edge slots. They move more air circulation around the desired surface to increase lift. You see them under the leading edge on main wings to pump up circulation over the top, and on the top to pump up circulation under the bottom for desired nose up pitch authority for the 177. In cruise the air flows straight back until AoA increases enough to create a vacuum at the entrance of the slot. It is a bit of a trade-off since some air is getting through at higher speeds. Some designs have actual door that open up to expose the slot at the desired speeds. MD-11's also have slots [with articulating cover doors] to energize the smaller elevators than the DC-10 had. McDonnell Douglas did that with articulating doors on jets so it is fared over smooth in cruise but allowed smaller wings and tails for field performance and slow flight. So trimable horizontal and slots since the horizontal is relatively small on the 177 make it perform better. Nice 3 point landing though :/
Hey! That's my old bird. Glad to see it's being flown by a great new owner. I do miss her sometimes. All the best and blue skies with the Cardi. Excited to see where you take her
haha that's so funny! She's getting a lot of love out here :)
Nice video. I’ve owned my Cardinal for almost 12 years. On takeoff, I don’t reduce RPM until 1000 AGL minimum (that’s when I can return to the departure runway). Also, on landing I prefer 20 deg of flaps. In the event if a go-around, the flaps are already set and control forces are reduced. The extra notch of flaps lowers stall speed by just one knot. I don’t use 30 unless I have to (short field, or obstacle on final, etc.). Enjoy!
Thanks! At SNA, we're used to trying to fly quietly so the reduced RPM is part of that. High heat or altitude changes that but coastal isn't an issue.
Super video. Love your style, non-annoying voice, and mannerisms. I have a ‘70 that’s pretty new to our family and we are really enjoying it.
That's one of the nicest things anyone has ever said to me lol. Thanks for watching!
Beautiful looking plane. I owned a 1972 177B for 7 years & used it mostly for aerial photography. Great flyer for long trips too. Only recurring issue i had was the nose gear strut had a shimmy upon landing otherwise easy to fly & landings were simple. I truly miss flying her. Thanks for the video!
Thanks for watching and commenting! They are great planes!
Bill, this is probably one of my favorite videos that you’ve done in real world flying. The cardinal is such an awesome plane and so unique in the Cessna world. It’s great to see you talk about some of the facts of the airplane and then watching you guys fly it was just awesome. We need one in MSFS lol!
Thanks so much! We really do need one in MSFS badly. I almost booted up XP11 just to fly it lol. Thanks so much for watching!!!
Nice format and well presented. You should do more of these videos and see where they go. Airplane reviews seem to be quite popular at the moment.
Thanks! I've got some unique ones lined up so hopefully they go well!
I own B model N34823…..those are the original numbers for the B models….no letters. Anyway welcome to the wonderful world of Cardinals. We’re up the coast from you in the Santa Barbara area. Couple of things….someone else mentioned it but normal takeoff is with 10 deg of flaps. Max performance TO is 15 degas. Cardinals have Fowler flaps which means they move out from the wing before they start to go down. This means they effectively increase the wind area….more lift. Do that same TO with 10 degrees and she’ll lift off at 60ish mph vs. 70. She’ll also climb better if you hold it at best climb. Huge difference. The “slats” on the tail are part of a program called “The Cardinal Rule” and addressed problems with the original 177 (1968). The tail on the originals could stall, when the stick was pulled all the way back….like in a flair, before the wing……resulting in a violent pitch up and subsequent stall. I believe there was actually a fatality or two. The fix was those slats….they effectively keep the air stuck to the stabilator when the stick is pulled back so the main wing stalls before the tail does. If the stick isn’t all the way back you’re not flairing enough with these guys. Just nail your speed and don’t be going too fast else you’ll bounce and experience the dreaded Cardinal crow hop. Last bit is the Carb Heat….hardly ever needed. These guys don’t tend to ice up. Same reason as the Cherokee. Induction is in the area of the exhaust system so they don’t tend to develop ice. Procedure is to pull the heat before you cut the throttle….I do it on the downwind….and look for signs of ice (RPM will go up) if no ice then push it in and leave it there. No need to land with it on and you’ll have one less knob to push in on a go around. Enjoy….my wife and I travel in ours just like you talked about….perfect for two folks, full fuel and bags. She likes to ride in the back thoug😂. Says she can stretch out and relax more….must work….she normally falls asleep 30 mins in. Enjoy.
They are great planes! Excited to fill the log book with this thing!
wow, that's a lot of great information. I did hear about the fatalities regarding the tail stab.
Hi Bill. I agree with you, the Cardinal is a wonderful airplane. I own two - a fixed gear and a retract. They are both fun and easy to fly, stable platforms with terrific visibility and better than average performance. I think your comments about the useful load, although accurate, are a bit misleading. Yes, with full tanks it is limited to two adults but the reality is most folks will want to make a comfort stop along the way anyway, meaning carrying full fuel is kind of wasting useful load. If you're one who enjoys four hour flights without a pit stop, by all means fill 'er up. If not, leave some fuel in the ground and gain some useful load. I seldom fly with more than 30 gallons and gain another 120# to the useful load. My bladder appreciates it. 🙂
Thanks! Yes, I totally agree. That's the case with any plane really. There is a nuance with this plane that makes that annoying...it has the fuel filler flap STC and is an ordeal to get the dipstick in. Minor thing in the grand scheme of things but it's so much easier to top it off. But when the useful is needed, it's a simple fix.
Welcome to Cardinal Land! Y’all are going to really enjoy this airplane. Mine is a ‘75 177B and my POH calls for 10 degrees of flaps for normal takeoffs; couldn’t tell if yours were extended or if your year model might vary. They really help. Nose wheel steering is sensitive but precise once you get in the groove. Cardinal Flyers Online is a great resource you’ve found and there’s an awesome owner’s community behind you. Please keep the videos coming!
Thanks! We've been 50/50 on takeoff flaps to get a feel for it. It's felt great both ways. Thanks so much for watching and commenting!
10 degrees flaps is optional, not necessary under normal conditions.
@@nickolson1491from the 1974 POH: “Take-offs are accomplished with the wing flaps set in the 0° to 15° position. The preferred flap setting for normal take-off is 10°. This flap setting (in comparison to flaps up) produces a shorter ground run, easier lift-off, shorter total distance over the obstacle, and increased visibility over the nose in the initial climb-out.”
Given the above, why would you take off with the flaps retracted? Preferred is not the same as “optional”.
Hey. I love my Cardinal as well. Great plane. Flew it to Nashville Tenn. from Battle Creek MI. in about 3hrs. last month.
That's awesome! They are such great planes :)
I totally agree, the modern Corvette supercar raked back front glass. The confluence of windshield and cantilever, no struts. Prominent fin, slotted tail. If this work of art wasn't a bird, Mako would be an apt name.
I mean this plane is so gorgeous, a truckload of cash poured onto any 177 bird, in the form of winter red paint with tastefully rendered black accents, could be possibly well worthwhile
👍😎👍
And, sweet touchdown, especially given the newness at the time.
Thanks! :) They're getting better and better too. They are sweet planes for sure!
Congratulations Bill, I'm really happy for you
It'll be pretty fun! Thanks!
super cool. great video! Hope to be a cardinal owner someday.
Thanks!
A friend of mine owned a Cardinal, excellent plane!
Super fun little planes!
I like the format here. You presented well and gave excellent information. I'd love to see more videos like this.
Thanks, Roman! I really appreciate it!
Love the video. Big Cardinal fan. PLEASE keep them coming! 👍
Thanks, man! Will do!
Amazing video Bill! Absolutely loved the review and the flight! Hope to see more of these 👏
Thanks so much! I really appreciate it :)
Good stuff! I love Cessna, looking forward to see more. Tnks!
Thanks! More coming soon!
Well done. I’m on the hunt for a bigger bird anticipating the new MOSAIC changes. DW
Ya! This would be a great option for sure. Let's fly it when you're out here
That engine is upgradable, you can make it faster.
Really enjoyed your going over what makes the Cardinal different from the C172 and the Archer!! 6'5 your TALL. lol
Thanks, Cade! ya leg and headroom are important to me :)
Beautiful airplane, thanks for sharing.
Thanks so much for watching!
Thanks for the video Bill. Landings looked like buttuh!
To me a car like a 911 Turbo or a Shelby Cobra might be better representatives of performance sports cars, but cars like the 53 Porsche 550 Spyder or the 56 Alfa Romeo Giuletta Spider are far better representatives of the ROMANCE of sports cars. These classic sports cars, in my opinion, are more about relaxed sporty driving, for which being able to take in and absorb the beauty of your surroundings are more important than emulating race car performance.
In that spirit, it's hard to beat a strut-less high wing plane for the romance of flying! This is especially true if you want to take in the beauty of what's below, whether that be fall foliage in New England or the red rocks of Sedona. I appreciate that benefit of the strut-less design even more than how it helps performance.
In fact, if the goal is photography of the landscape below, a strut-less high wing plane becomes almost essential and the last thing in the world that you would want would be a low wing plane. The epitome of high wing planes for photography would be one of the RG versions of the Cardinal, although, only the very last year (1978) had their highest voltage landing gear for fast deployment and retraction of the gear. That's my 2¢. May you always keep the blue side up!
P.S. When I hit the lottery I want a turbo-normalized Bonanza for the joys of complex, long distance flying, an RG Cardinal for that in-between performance and view, a Piper Cub with tundra tires for back country flying, tail dragger fun, and keeping stick & rudder skills sharp, and something like AutoGyro's MTOSport for the closest feeling possible that you might be a bird. That's all. Just a few humble aspirations.
Thanks so much @zelig2u! Great points :) I 100% agree with the TN Bo!!!
@@Bill4LE I saw a video yesterday that reminded me of your comment about turbo normalizing and felt like I should mention this video to you. It SOUNDS like a turbo charged engine that is impossibly good. It's made by DeltaHawk.
They've been working for years to get it FAA certified and it finally did get certification. Initial entry is a 180 HP version, model DHK180, but they claim that due to superior torque and thrust curves, that it performs like traditional piston engines of greater HP. They specifically said that during takeoff, that at 1800 RPM (in a Cirrus SR20) that it will firmly push you into the back of your seat. They'll also be introducing more powerful versions of this engine.
The main takeaways I remember are...
• Burns about 35% to 40% less fuel than comparable AVGAS engine
• Burns jet fuel, so you don't have to hunt for 100LL in some parts of the world
• Single lever operation (No mixture control... although maybe that loses some of the fun you gained with the added complexity from a constant speed prop 😉)
• Turbocharged and supercharged
• It starts up, unaided, at temps down to -20, so no need to pre-warm the engine in most cases
• It's also perfectly fine with warm starts
• Don't have to "baby" your CHTs & EGTs, or worry about shock cooling, like you often do with turbocharged engines.
• Projected selling price is about $60,000
Frankly, it sounds too good to be true, but I think it's worth checking out. The title of the video is...
"AirVenture 2023: DeltaHawk DHK180"
and it's on the AVweb channel. Peace!
@@Zelig2Cents I'll check it out! Sounds awesome!!!
Good video! Regards from Argentina!!
Thanks, Diego!
great airplane i have a 77 177b love her i like it better than my 182 i had, easier to get into just got thru installing s some radios and a new 230 hp engine in her. with the new enginei can keepup with the 182 where is your front wheel pant. looks terrible without it. i have the long range. i just got back with her from wisconsin i am in washington state. i even have a/c well a ice cooler in her works great. also put on some vortexes i also have a stinson reliant. lol stuff in the 230 ho, you will be happier i wont sell mine. i have had mine for 11 years. new custom paint last year and new leather interior. new engine since the garmin 530 is not supported anylonger, had to get a new radio,
The flying stabilator had stalling issues. That’s what the slot helped fix. When it was at high angles of attack it would stall.
👍
Definitely the prettiest in its category.
Agreed! Thanks for watching!
Great video, Bill. Loved the format of talking about the aircraft and then taking it on a flight. Is there a lot to maintaining these planes, and if it's something that you rent, how do you check that the aircraft has been properly maintained?
Proper maintenance can be tricky to spot. There are definitely dodgy shops out there. I guess my advice would be to always do a proper full pre-flight and don't take anything for granted. If something doesn't look/feel right, let someone know. You'll get a sense really quick how good they are by their reaction, how quickly they fix it and how well they fix it.
Hey Bill you should have a mechanic check into the missing struts, that can't be airworthy.
haha! We'll have it checked out for sure :)
I was in the market for one of these for a while but I started to get the feeling that you don't buy a Cardinal, you "adopt" a Cardinal as a special little piece of aviation history that needs to be cared for, and it's getting harder and harder to care for them. It's a damned shame they got the early bad rep and never replaced the 172 because of it.
I still do go back and look at them from time to time.
Very well put! They are super cool little planes. The aviation industry so different from the auto industry and we unfortunately lose a lot of cool planes for shaky reasons.
@mattj65816 I’ve owned my 1971FG for almost 12 years. Cardinals are no more difficult to care for than other airplanes of similar vintage and performance (eg. 172, 182, Comanche, Grumman Tiger). As the entire fleet ages, maintenance costs will continue to rise, but that’s not unique to the Cardinal.
The 177's wing is actually the same as the C210 😉
It's a little shorter structurally the same
They are both cantilever wings. That is the only commonality of the two wings.
while both are cantilever wings the 177 has a different airfoil than a 210..in fact it changed in 69 from the previous year...the spar carry thrus are different as well
Nice plane
Thanks!
Where did you mount your right wing camera. I like the angle and view. I have the 75 RGII. Talk to you on CFO.
The wing camera is mounted on the tie-down. It's so nice to be unobstructed
I’ve wanted to like the cardinal but every time I look at it, it’s like looking at a Skyhawk through a distorted Coke bottle. The windshield and cabin are hideous.
It does look like a modified 172...I obviously wouldn't say "hideous" though lol. The frontal area reduction helps a lot for speed and efficiency
The later ones are 200hp
The RGs ya. From '71
Bought it or a share in it?
haha borrowing it! :)
😍
:)
Why no flaps on take off? book says use 10 degrees
The book recommends 0-15 degrees for normal takeoff. It's basically a tradeoff. Taking off with flaps reduces the ground roll distance but decreases climb performance. In this plane, I want as much climb performance as I can get. Especially out of SNA. Ground roll distance isn't an issue for both runway length and DA reasons so I'd rather just takeoff with 0.
I fly a 77' 177B and never use flaps on takeoff, unless short distance or high density, 98% of flights are zero flaps, always off the ground before 900 feet and climbs right out, put it in the green relax the yolk and flys right off. As for landing, I use 20 degrees, flaps are fowler and massive, in addition nice to know I have 10 degrees of flaps on reserve if need be. Great plane, enjoy, youll find what works for you. im based out of long beach
You’re a nice couple!
Thank you!
The Cardinal is not a Trainer by any measure not sure where you got that from, Maybe you just think of Cessna as a trainer.
It's absolutely a trainer. It was designed to be a replacement for the 172. The improvements over the 172 made it a better plane and not a better trainer which was partially the reason it was shorted lived.
You’re both right! 177 with 150hp is definitely a trainer. 177B with constant speed prop fits in the complex category. 177RG is definitely complex category.
Beautiful aircraft, I also own one! I think at 20:19 there is the answer why it was given up by Cessna. It’s just too difficult to land. Can you remember what your airspeed approx. at 20:18 was? My experience says you have to nail 70mph/62 knots over the numbers and hold it there. If you are slight faster, it can balloon 3-5 ft high if you pull somewhat more in the flare. If you don’t flare properly (you pull as you would in a 172) your front wheel will touchdown first, resulting in a crow hop. This ist why all average 172 pilots didn’t like it.
Exactly right! I had been shading faster on approach and have it sorted out now. Being in front of the wing like just takes getting used to. No idea what my airspeed was but I guarantee it was too fast.
Too difficult to land? What are you flying? A pre-stab slots '68? I own a '70B and a '76RG and none of what you described is accurate about landing either of my airplanes.
@nickolson1491 it's just different. I agree that "too difficult" isn't the right way to put it but it's different enough from a 172 that it takes a little time to nail it. I think they land fantasticly.
I really own a 68 with original stab. It’s engine has been replaced by a Lycoming O360, still with fixed prop.
What I meant with “too difficult”: It just doesn’t land like a 172 and definitely needs some time to learn it properly. For me it just isn’t a plane for beginners.
-doug- Bill Demuro
haha! Full-on stole Harry's Garage format though for real