Great video with the right information. I have 24 quarter inch copper tubes through the top half of my column. Looks like a porcupine, but works great with just a small fan on it.
2:40 You realize that is a pot still, NOT a reflux still...? The passive reflux you get from that small riser, is neglectable. That means you won't get a higher ABV in your product, it is what it is...a simple pot still. Also, I wonder what the thumpers shown have to do with it? IF you were to put a thumper on after the pot still, THEN and only then you would get a higher proof due to the second distillation. That's clearly not the case here, so again...it's just a pot still. 3:33 "As much heat displacement in the air.." Again you are telling people wrong facts, and you don't understand what a reflux column does..! You actually DON'T want anything to condense on the walls, you want to let the vapor travel ALL the way to the top where your reflux condenser is located. The reason is that you want to take advantage of all the packing/plates in the column. Btw...my reflux column is insulated, which has the nice side effect of lowering the heating costs. 7:42 "There are other things you can put.." Ohh...sure you could use steel if you wanted an inefficient air-cooled still, if not ..use materials that are suitable for it. Why do you think heatsinks on electronics are copper or aluminum? 9:10 Once again you don't understand the basic theories of such still. It's not a matter of disappeat more heat to get a higher proof. The height of your column determines the proof, i.e. how much packing/plates the vapor would face. 10:30 WTF..??? Now it's really clear to me you don't know shit about distilling..! That's an air cooled condenser, NOT a reflux column! In a million years this won't be any reflux column! A reflux column HAS to be perpendicular to function, the picture shows a contraption that is roughly 45 degrees tilted. That would mean all reflux would run down one side, rendering the rest of the packing useless. 12:00 Now you want to tell us a pot still with a thumper is a reflux still, as long as the thumper is dry??? WTF?? The distillate can't even run back into the boiler and you call it a reflux still. Well, read and learn a little before you tell people such shit... You still have a lot to learn before you should teach others.
@@DaniGirl6 Yeah. There are just too many badly build distillation rigs on UA-cam. Also, a lot of people with absolutely zero understanding of how these things work. That results in a bunch of bad and in worst case scenario dangerous "advise" /false facts, that the novice would take for good.
That is my point. You make this big space then need more surface area inside or the steam will pass through it untouched. IF you have a narrow tube then all the steam will have contact with it.
Russell McGahee I use ceramic cubes, it's all about surface area. Runs faster and more efficient. That's as long as you know what your doing with temp.regulation.
Evaporation is different than boiling. Water can evaporate at any temperature. It depends on the surrounding pressure and temperature that determine evaporation. Like when you pass a lake or a pond when it is very cold. You can see the evaporation of the water and it condensing back into water when it comes off the surface of the water and it condenses again when it reaches the cold air. Nothing wrong with what you said just how it was said. I know what you meant though and Just want to say thanks for the info. I thank you for sharing your expertise.
+Steve Rabon Yea water will evaporate just above freezing, but the info is in it's most basic form so people get the idea without having to cram too much info in their heads. Sometimes over teaching can overwhelm them.
For what we are doing, that don't apply. Only variable in the process is altitudes. Our temp reading will go lower at higher altitude. His figures are good at sea level. This is not even in the same galaxy as fog on a pond lol. Here we are boiling water and alcohol and we use the VAPOR POINT difference between the two to separate them. Alcohol becomes a gas if you will, before water when heat is applied.
Evaporation and boiling is two different equations. Sea level as you say water boils at 212. It can evaporate at any temperature. On a cold day or on a hot day. Water can evaporate and become a vapor. That is what evaporation is when water becomes a vapor is what evaporation is. I know some wants to use that term when it comes to boiling point, but it doesn't make it fact.
Steve Rabon Yea, I dumbed down the info for that average viewer. Water evaporates even at just above freezing. If you reduce the pressure you also reduce the boiling point, but that can be too much info for some people.
i use a refux colum and they are very efective. try stuffing the colum with copper scrubers to increase surface area for condensation to occur. i build all of my stills with borocilicate glass and stuff my reflux colum with small glass marbles to increase surface area to trap water condensation.
A little disagreement. water boils at 212. It evaporates when you have a 30 degree difference. That is why you have fog , clouds etc. Right info other than terminology.
Great info!... Immediately gets me thinking of several ways I could increase cooling surface area and, at the same time, reduce steam bypass within the column... Thanks!
This guy gets the math right but he gets a lot wrong on everything beyond that. A thumper actually comes out to about a 1/2 second distillation and a column is usually not empty. It has copper wool AR ceramic plates in it.
While i'm not a fan of reflux stills I do own 2 and that's not how they work or are made. All true reflux stills share 1 common element. They have plates inside of them which act like several small thump kegs. The first one i purchased about fifteen years ago was packed with 3 layers of copper mesh separated about 6 inches apart(4 inch mesh wadded up in sections and separated 6 inches from the top of one section to the bottom of the next) The wash would evaporate into each of the packed layers then separate the water from the alcohol until it came out the condenser at around 186 proof. Hot as hell but no flavor. The second one i purchased about 2 years later and is known as a hillbilly flute. It has four actual copper plates as well as glass sight glasses. Each plate is concaved down and has a hole on each side so that they are constantly re condensing the the water vapor. Your diagram and the way you are explaining it is what happens when someone detunes their column so that it was now a pot still. As i said i don't like reflux stills but I do own and have ran several of them for friends. Not trying to bust your balls and even though I've been doing this for years I still watch and enjoy your videos. Keep up the great work!
How would this measure up against the more traditional means such as a thumper keg, or glass bead packing, or more recently perferated plates or bubble plates as some call them, as their are a few different types?example being the recent hillbilly flute. Excellent still, I know the guy that made it, and it probably can provide consistent 94% alcohol with an experienced southern man running it. BUT, it is costly, and extensive. Not as familiar with thumper keg set ups, we used them for the sake of tradition, and to learn the old ways. I used sections of glass beads about an inch deep, works reasonably well, compared to bubble plates, and works the same. Plates might be more efficient however.
Rather use a half meter 50mm copper pipe and put half meter 15mm copper pipes in til it is full of pipes inside giving it alot of surface area for the steam to touch and condens on
Great video,good to see people improving semi-ancient tech. Have you considered a peltier module for your heat displacement/condensing needs? Placed on the fins of your proto it could (even only using it at 3-6v,instead of the full 12v) over compensate for the accumulated heat,I wouldn't recommend using the full 12v supply because the temps would reach freezing (and below).
Why are you suggesting to use a column as small as what you hold up to the camera? Am I getting this right? If I am then I'm reminded of what a professor said to a student one time...."It's not even wrong." To even suggest using a column that small, you never list a reason, is completely ridiculous. It would immediately choke, and then puke mash. What's more, the diameter is too small to maintain any meaningful level of reflux, which is sorta the point of the whole thing, so you get no reflux, no point in even having a reflux still. You apparently think you are very clever for all this, but you are doing no one any good, and in the end, your advice is dangerous at worst, and leads to worthless stills at the least.
+Duane Estill Wow!!! Just how would a choked tube magically draw up mash to a tube that is inches above it??? Blocked tubes must cancel gravity.... And I did list my reasons, explained them in detail. Guess you think you're being clever.
I DO HAVE AN ACTUAL QUESTION: which worm position is better a worm working uphill or downhill with an uphill exit? or is it as some claim to best be used sideways so the alcohol can cool the steam also.. i understand the thump keg is designed to drop the water out of the steam first while allowing the 180 proof alcohol steam thru...but the worm problem is the next question.....flowing bottom to top, in a vertical alligned coils with horizontal tubing in a corkscrew going UP or DOWN? most say down or you get spurts and pops...some say the corkscrew laying on its side so alcohol will settle in the bottom of the corkscrew.and give more time to condense in the water...like a U shape in the sink to block the smell from coming back up and the drain from drying out and to catch your rings and sticks.....but in this instance it would be to keep some alcohol in the bottom to allow it to condense more until the pressure pushes some thru
Hold up a second. Too many questions at once. First. Cooling coil. Downhill, all the way Thumpkeg. Yes, it's just a short burst of quick coolness, but I don't use one.
Have you considered trying a 1" diameter steel reflux column packed with copper wool? Just starting to get into distilling, got my first batch of mash fermenting away! Also, what length/diameter coil would you recommend for a 20qt pressure cooker setup? Thanks a million for your helpful videos!
You can do it that way. I'm not saying either way is better, but my way does the exact same thing, just with the same math worked out differently. Get a least 6 to 10 feet for the coil then add what ever you need to get from the pot to the coil. Don't get any smaller dia then what you've seen me use.
Good info. Brainstorm! I am going to use this info and use a 4' length of 3/4" copper baseboard heat element already covered in aluminum fins made to dissipate heat. No more 2" column. Thanks. Now I see this is 5 years old.
You have some good ideas, but, this one,, hmmm... Reflux is about getting a higher proof.. Valved Reflux about control of the process. Internal vs External, etc.. Valved Reflux also flexibility to run as a standard pot still without the packing, etc.. It is about letting the Steam vapors rise, cooling at the head, and letting a portion of the vapors(water and Alcohol) condense and fall back into the packing, getting heated again and the distillates(alcohol) again turning into steam and going back to the condenser to migrate out at a higher proof, while the water flows back into the pot. That is why you see some Column refluxes with two condensers and some with valves to redirect a percentage of distillate back to the column.. Also why you see some with cooling at the top of the head, and I think you are referring mostly to internal cooling tubes in the columns in your comments. The volume is for the packing (which restricts flow), to still have a reasonable flow, and for the packing to also heat up (the reason you run a Reflux still in full reflux for a while to "Heat it up",) so it will help to turn the falling condensates back to vapors.... Your view of all of this is too simplistic. You are not talking about making any sort of reflux still,, just a new type of condenser, but, using it as a mid shaft in your still.. Not sure what that is going to do considering the size, but, don't waste too much time working on it until you have a better idea of what is is you want to do... Thumper kegs are basically Pre-coolers (proof boosters) before condensing. It is similar to the concept of the Reflux, but, exactly in reverse.. Where a column in reflux condenses and drops the condensate back into the column to further distill, and steam again, the thumper keg cools the water hopefully, and leaves it in the keg, hoping most of the alcohol vapors rise into the tube going to the final condenser. The time spent cooling is fairly quick. The steam turns into a bubble and it makes it's way up through the water before rising again and going out to the condenser. As the still runs, the water warms,, as more water is condensed and warmed in the thumper, therefore lessening the condensation factor on the rising steam, as the steam bubble has to travel higher through the warmer water. Less colder water, or more water of the warmer variety, still runs about the same over time, but, does create a higher final proof. Lets clear up something else at the beginning of the video.. Your temperatures are not "Evaporation Points",, but, Boiling Points.. There is quite a big difference between the two, and a point of some MASS confusion.. Put a teaspoon of 190 proof on a counter top in an Air Conditioned room at 70 degrees, and come back in a day or two, and you will have 10% left in your spoon.. (KEY: A constant 70 degree temperature),, while the Alcohol continues to "EVAPORATE",, not Boil away... If it were simply a "Evaporation Point" at say 212 degrees for water, we would never have rain,, or,, your Teaspoon of 190 proof would always remain 1 teaspoon below 173 degrees for ethanol. Nor, would we have Fog after a rain, etc.. Next time you raise your lid on your fermenter, notice how you raise the lid.. You pop it to one side, and let the "WATER" run back into the fermenter.. Huge amounts of water condensates on the inner lid.. Nothing 212 degrees there either.. Now, you understand why,,, when you run a still, you don't get 100% Alcohol or 200 Proof distillates.. If it were that simple, it would be all about temperatures.. Here would be what you would be reading on "EVERY" website out there talking about distillery.. Pour in Mash, Fire up the Still, Turn up heat to max temp.. Turn on cooling supply.. When you see the first drips, this will be your thin alcohols etc.. Turn the heat source down and maintain the temp at 133 degrees until your drip stops,,,,,, Then, raise your temperature to the next level... Heat until about 173 degrees, and your next distilate will start.. It will also come out at 100% or 200 Proof.. When it stops, if you want to see something else drip out of the end of your condenser, you will have to raise the "BOILING POINT TEMPERATURE" to 212 degrees to get the water out... Of course, there might be something else that comes out between, and then after that next degree point, based on particulates, etc.. IE.. Salt increases boiling temperatures, etc for example, so other things in your mash might also create some irregularities.. I will leave you with a thought, since you are a thinker,, and maybe you will come up with the Next Revolution in Stills.. Raise that Fermenter lid again and watch the volume of water run off... Bump the water off, and wipe it with a clean rag and put the lid back on.. Go back in an hour or two and look again at the NEW volume of water on the lid... Yes.. Quite a bit... Now.. Once your Mash is done,, and you are ready to go to the still,, do one more thing... Take a portion of your mash, and put it in something where you can heat the mash back up to brewing temperature.. Say 80-90 degrees.. Warm it, and put the lid back on again and come back in an hour or two, and lift the lid again.. This time,, lift it evenly, and let the water drain into a cup/bowl, etc,, and give it a sip.. Yep. You will be amazed.. Alcohol with that water... I guarantee you that,, when I sit down and put some thought into it, with some time, I will be able to show you a totally new way of Separating the two.. I believe the key is Temperature Variance... NOT just Boiling Points, and in your comments "Evaporation Points".. Since we know that Alcohol and water will both evaporate at room temperature,, given the time,, I think we can both see that Alcohol will evaporate first.. And very likely, at a lower temperature variance.. I have not put much thought into it, and have never put a thermometer to it, but, I would bet that water will condensate between 15 and 30 degrees F, and that makes me think that Alcohol will or might condensate between 5 and 15 degrees variance.. I see the rain hit the cool white water river of the Nantahala river. The rain is darn cool, but, the river is cooler.. A heavy Fog develops over the river pretty quick.. One day, when I am not so slammed with projects, I'll take a water temp and the temp of the rain, and have a starting point to play with.. In this case.. The still would be made of some sort of wide flat plates with some sort of cooling running across the plates at one temp, and the mash at a warmer temp below it. I would most likely work from an angle of how would this work if there were no Electricity... But, I would first use whatever I had to to verify the temperature variances before I started the "Prepper Distillery".. Ha.. Every time you raise your Fermenter lid, you think about this.. And, no, you never noticed this before, because your mash has never been that warm at the end of your fermentation.. I run Temperature controllers and keep mine at a constant for the duration.. I don't do distilling, although I did research it, and tried it with something I threw together for the learning experience.. But, I do like to brew wine,, and I start and finish my wines,,, ready to bottle in 10 to 12 days.. Secondary Fermentation is a completely manual process that takes me an evening for 6to 12 gallons of wine, and it is ready to rack first thing in the AM.. I break every rule in the book, and when I try to enlighten people on the wine forums,, they say I am not brewing wine, but, I am brewing "Hootch".. One day, I will catch one of the PrimaDonna's, and hand them a glass of wine, and let them rant and rave about it, and then, tell them, it is some of my 12 day wine.. Ha.. Have had many fine wine drinkers beg for a bottle or two.. Good Luck with the Distillation.. Keep up the videos..
Oh,, and BTW... One more point.. Being a wine maker, and one day getting interested enough to start researching distilling,, I ran across the "Don't Drink it or go Blind" Moonshine Heads comments... I thought to myself.. What a bunch of Garbage.. When you make "Moonshine" or Rum, or Vodka, or "White Lightening",, what are you making??? Really??? A Wine that you are going to Distill. Wine Recipe.. Juices, Sugar Yeast.. Whisky: Grains Sugar, Yeast. What creates Methanol Esters??? Research that too... Fruits are much higher than grains.. Never heard of anyone going blind drinking wine??? It has nothing to do with the Distillation process,, only the Fermentation process common to both methods of making spirits.. Wine Musts have much more methanol esters than Whisky Mashes.. The POISONS that come out of Moonshine??? HA,,HA,, HA... WHAT A BUNCH OF GARBAGE... Government Propaganda to keep people from buying a $2.00 bottle of untaxed Alcohol from the local hardware store, instead of the $10/bottle Government Taxed Spirits.. The Word "DENATURED Alcohol?".. De-Natured.. Or De-Naturalized.. Or,, Not Natural any more.. It's all Ethanol, before the Government forces producers to "Poison" Ethanol not designed or "Approved" for Drinking.. Try to get a Distillery Permit.. GOT CASH??? And,, get a Fuel Permit.. Hell, it's free!! Same Stuff.. But, if you have a "Fuel Alcohol Permit", if it came off of your still, and it is in a bottle, it has to be "Poisoned" before the cap goes on.. Back in the days of Prohibition, when the shiners lost a load, if they got in a pinch, and the demand and consequences for not meeting the demand was high enough,,,, in went the methylated spirits,, commonly called DeNatured Alcohols... This was just after the Poison mandated by the Government was added.. Now you know about the Heads.. Research "methylated spirits" and DeNatured Alcohol and you will see what I am talking about.. Then, research Methanol Esters, and do some research on Apple Juice and Orange Juice and tell me that drinking the Heads is worse than drinking the same amount of "Apple or Orange Juice".. Ha.. EVERYTHING IS TOXIC in the right proportions. EVEN WATER... I just did a quick search and found two good articles to get everyone started to see the bullcrap the Government has dumped on the public's heads... homedistiller.org/intro/methanol/methanol after this article, check this page out.. Make sure you see the "Lethal Doses of Common" WATER, COFFEE, etc... at the bottom of the page.. BTW, don't trust anything you see on any .gov sites, nor any Western Medicine sites either. Cancer was not caused by Lack of Chemo or Radiation.. Excuse my rant.. If it wasn't Illegal for someone to distill for their own consumption, people like me would be playing with stuff like this, and enjoying the challenge of learning, testing and developing new skills and procedures for making better spirits.. Hell.. I studied Primary and Secondary Fermentation for 3 or 4 days before I decided that I could break every rule ever written about making "Good Wines", and make better wine than I have ever tasted.. French wines being the best I have enjoyed. Every bottle I brew is better than the absolute best bottle of wine I have ever tasted, and people who have never liked wine love my wine. Those who are wine lovers really can't get over the taste of my wines.. Don't believe anything you hear about anything.. Research and learn.. If it doesn't sound right, and you think you know what you are talking about, then, it probably isn't... Go with your gut and experiment.. Learn something new every day.. Get good at it and then move onto another subject or another experiment. Share what you are sure about on UA-cam and let others start where you left off and educate the next subscriber.. Don't let the Government win... It's not::: I want, I want, I have, I have,,,,, now I owe, I owe, so Off to Work I go,, to be a good boy and do what I am told.. Don't keep up with the Jones's.. They ain't too smart anyway.. Figure out how your Great Grandma and Grandpa did it... If things keep going like they have been going, we all may just be wishing we knew how to make a bar of soap out of Fat and Ashes.. I just so happened to be making my yearly batch of Berry Blend wine... My favorite recipe, and decided to once again do a little UA-cam on the subject.. Then, got off into a discussion with someone talking about Going Blind with Moonshine.. I thought...Hmm.. Same process.. Where does the Methanol get created.. Did my research, and figured I would finish the night with some Moonshine videos, since I will be talking about this for a bit with some others and ran across this video.. Figured I would jump in, and learn some more by commenting to others.. You will learn more from teaching others than you will ever learn on your own.. A Student will never catch up with his Teacher or Master, because the Master or Teacher is always learning while teaching.. You never know what you Don't understand, until you begin to teach others and explain what it is that you know.. Cheers.
+Mark Thomas There is only one point to a reflux still, and only one way to make a higher proof with a still like this no matter what you name it. The heat slowly dissipates so the water can condense first while gravity can carry it back to the pot instead of the worm. Anything you build that allows this will work. There is no distilling it hundreds of times like some people say.. there is no fractionating like some people say. And to answer your question. The "what are you making" goes along like this. When the fist oil refineries were distilling kerosene for lamps from crude oil (this replaced whale oil and gasoline wasn't being used yet), the first thing that came out was gas. The gas was collected and dumped, then the kero came out. The same thing is going on with distilling alcohol. The first thing you get out of your still is poisonous alcohols like acetone and these can make you go blind when too much is drank. It is called "heads". Like the gas, it is collected first and you can dump it or save it to light fires. THEN you can start collecting the good stuff.
+wcemichael Yes. I am familiar with Samuel M. Kier, who discovered crude in his Salt operations in the Mid 1840's, who finally used in 1851 the horizontal cylindrical stills to create what he called Carbon Oils, that within the next 10 years resulted in 58 different refineries in Philli with different types of distillation techniques to make different products.. Of which nothing back in those days is being used today, as far as "whole distillation processes", although Vertical Columns and Fractional Columns of those days are still used today in creating spirits, since it is a much simpler system than trying to separate crude oils. Which is created first, gas or kerosene depends on which process you are referring to, and whether the gas is the aerosol product or gasoline which is usually not referred to the end product until it is blended with the other waste like products produced during distillation. EVERYTHING at some volume is "Poisonous" to the body. Even distilled water at 6 ltrs/day. I am curious about the "Poisons that make you go blind".. These Alcohols are produced in the Fermentation process, then refined in the distillation process. Question: If Methanol is poison and is removed at the beginning of distillation,,,, When/how is methanol removed from wine or beer? ANSWER: IT IS NOT,, and has never been removed from Wines and beers.. It has always been there, and will always be there.. The fact of the matter is, that Pectins are the primary source of the creation of the methanol comes from the pectin, which mainly composed of methyl esters of galactose. When pectin breaks down, by enzymes introduced by microorganisms, or deliberately introduced, the methyl esters combine with water to produce methanol. Methanol is the "Go Blind" agent.. The Poisons of Ethanol and Methanol are broken down by the body in the exact same fashion. Metabolizing ethanol produces chemicals (LESS) toxic to the body than alcohol. Unfortunately, if the same chemical action is performed on methanol the result is formic acid, lactic acid and formaldehyde. Formaldehyde attacks nerve cells, especially the optic nerve and can damage the liver and kidneys. Formic acid and lactic acid also attack the kidneys and liver. Now that we know that Methanol is the "Go Blind Agent", lets look at some raw statistics about Methanol so we can get this "GO BLIND" in context, other than the Government Propaganda being repeated by so many today.. Other factors also go into the production of Methanol. Type of Yeast, High Targets of finished ABV's, dirty conditions going into the fermenter, lack of sufficient oxygen of the yeast in the Mash/Must, etc.. Corn Liquors surely contain less methanol than fruit wines,, especially if the distiller dumps his heads. Wines created with "Fruit Juices" contain an average of 0.2-0.3% methanol, or if derived from pulp, or fresh fruit by enzymatic degradation, the levels can be 0.4-.06 or 0.6-0.9 which is 2 to 3 times higher than juice wines. So,,, if you are concerned about Heads in distillation,, PLEASE DO NOT DRINK ANY WINES..... AND,, in fact,, lets look at Orange Juice.. Orange juice contains 10 to 50 times as much methanol as sugarmash. Sorry, I could not put my hands on a Orange Juice vs a standard Fruit Juice or Fresh Fruit Must, but, you get the picture. Now, lets look at Recommended vs Lethal Doses of the same Orange Juice.. "Dietary surveys have shown that an extreme consumer of orange juice drinks slightly over 2 litres/day. The estimated maximum intake of methanol based on this consumption would be 455 mg for a 60 kg adult which is below the maximum advisory intake of 600 mg per day for a 60 kg adult, "Recommended" by the Department of Health." So if we stay under 600 mg per day we are "SAFE", that's the same as 200 liters(52 Gallons) of mash per day or about 70 liters(18.5 Gallons) of 40% alcohol per day if you weight is 60 kg. I'm sorry, but, that by itself would be a new record in Guinness Books.. Now, lets look at the Lethal Doses.. The lethal dose of methanol is equal to about 80000 mg or you need 27000 liters of mash at least to get that amount. I challenge you to drink 27,000 liters of mash (7132 Gallons).. Or, Imagine drinking a lethal amount of wine... Maybe 5,000 Gallons of wine AT ONE TIME... to get a Lethal Dose.. But, it is a concern, if you are going to Separate your Heads and drink them rather than throw them away.. I will agree to that totally.. But, to make a run and not throw them away, and mix them with the rest of the pulls, it is right back to the mash numbers.. You would not want to pull heads from a 5 gallon batch and drink them, not included with the rest of the batch, that would force you to spread them out over a weeks worth of drinking.. The fact of the matter is, that neither Ethanol or Methanol is going to make you healthy.. But to think that if someone doesn't pull their Heads, you are going to go blind is just plain not paying attention to the facts.. The total amount of methanol in mash expressed in ml is about 0.1 ml = nothing. I'm glad we have that to set the records straight.
+wcemichael To the Reflux Stills.. If you are familiar with running Reflux stills, you run them for 5 to 10 minutes (preference), to "Warm" them up. To get them to operating temperatures.. You don't find anyone insulating their columns, and you won't find anyone who is cooling them either. You will however find all of them (who are running in Reflux mode rather than Pot still mode), packing the columns with Copper wool, Ceramic Rings, etc.. to add volume to the column. You would not add a volume or packing inside of a Column, if you wanted to Insulate or vice versa Cool the external of the tower. It would be defeating either or both of the purposes.. There are wild variations to the Reflux Stills. Internal vs External and Valved Reflux for example. The Internal would be the only Reflux still that I could imagine you are basing your ideas on, because the water feed to the cooling coils at the top of the column are also running through the middle of the column. At the bottom of the column, there would be a lot of condensation that would drip back into the pot, and that would be if there were no packing.. The packing would be heated up by the rising steam across the whole volume of the column, while only the water feed pipes themselves plus a very small portion of the packing around them that would be active condensers. The water warms as it rises, and the steam cools, so the net effect is not realized until the top of the condenser, where the condensates drip back down through the packing and rise again before making it back down to the pot. This is where the higher proof collection comes from.. But, it is much easier to understand, when you look at a Valved Reflux Column. And it would be well worth while to look at the Fractional column also. You mentioned that there is no distilling it hundreds of times.. I have never heard that claim.. But, a valved reflux still, after determining it's maximum distillation rate, best runs at 1/3 collection and 2/3rds reflux, depending on your setup, but, that is a good rule of thumb. So, 2 oz out of 3 would run back down the column, to further refine or increase the proof. The "Re-Evaporation" of the distillate in the column, before it makes it to the pot,,, and in this case,, AFTER it passes by the condenser. The Valved reflux still usually only has a single condenser.. AND, they can be unpacked and run as a Pot still, where the Internal Reflux still can not. The fundamental design of the same "Reflux Still" is totally different. I can't see how you can Lump all of them in a single class and say they all work the same way, when you are talking about anything less than they are designed to be used as a "Reflux" still, and that is not even true in the case of an unpacked Valved Reflux (Now a Pot Still).. www.moonshine-still.com/still.pdf Take a look at this document. About page 42 or the Chapter 11. I can't think of a better still with more flexibility, etc.. They are much, much easier to operate for a beginner operator. It does the same thing that a pot still and Thumper Keg does, but, much more efficient, smaller foot print, and isn't prone to leaks or pressures. It is an open system. It is much easier to see and anticipate the splits for Heads, Hearts and Tails. You can anticipate via temperature and then, confirm via taste, burn test, smell, etc.. to learn the process vs try to figure it out while you make mistakes. It can be run as a Reflux still for higher proofs and a cleaner distilate, or it can be run as a Pot still if you are running something with a full body that you want to keep the full flavor of the distillate.. to be honest, I don't see the loss of flavor pot over Reflux. I give my waste wine fruits away to others who do their thing with them. Some have multiple experimentals and I have been a part of tasting many batches from each. The Valved reflux still in this link that I have just posted is an exact replica, and I can't see a better piece of equipment with more functions and efficiency in a single uncomplicated package.. Unless you can come up with more than what you have said up to this point, I think it is obvious that your understanding of "Reflux Column stills" isn't where it needs to be yet to be making authoritative statements about it. I agree it is much more complex than a Pot still based on the millions of Pot stills out there all based on the exact same design, but, the Reflux still is an evolutionary still. Something that came after years of experimentation, and varying designs. In fact, the distillation of Petroleum went through this same evolution with these same devices. Cheers. BTW.. According to my research, the Rums made from Molases that are below 15% ABV are said to have "NO" methanol products in them. I will be at least suggesting that some runs be made to determine if this is true or not, using the crude flame test to check the results.
Mark Thomas Sigh....So you've turned this into a pissing contest....Wonderful. Sorry but here is why you are wrong. The water and the drinkable alcohol boil at different temps. It is this difference that allows people separate them. Simple basic science. One evaporates quicker than the other at the same temp. This same simple basic science is still in effect with the non-drinkable vs drinkable alcohols. The laws of physics don't change. There is a difference in temp at which each will boil. This difference allows us to separate one from the other. Again, basic science. I have done this so many times I can tell the difference in what I am getting by taste alone. Cognac makers are so skilled in this they can tell the difference between savable and non-savable alcohols by smell alone. So now we know you know absolutely nothing about distilling, but like talking about it A LOT anyways. As as for what is a lethal dose or not and all the other stuff you feel the need to talk about to make yourself appear more knowledgeable is just that, a red herring so you can look down your nose at me. Have a wonderful life.
and what about internal half rings on the inside of the reflux to impede the flow of the steam to grab more heat without impeding the flow of water back to the still pot....kind of made to make the steam corkscrew up the reflux..put the half rings inside at an angle all the way up the reflux staggered around the inside you could cut a section off the reflux to trace the inside curve then solder it but this would take a tube bigger than 6 inches diameter but also to grab all the heat by spiraling the steam instead of sending it up the center ...
why not get 1/4 inch tube 1/2 inch 1 in, 2 inch and 3..put them all inside one another with holes drilled without..the 1/4 is the shortest one, and up and up acting like rings of metal to help condense the water back out, only letting the vapor rise... so if your total stack height is 2 feet, the 1/4 pipe is 6 inch, then 8, 12, 16 so by the time it gets to the top to go into the cone and down the pipe most of the water is condensed out.. and as the steam comes out is spreads out ward, also giving it two metal surfaces to touch as it rises..
and you can get copper tube with heatsinks on it from the water cooled computers...takes all the work out of it..and just soldering up your connections...
If I may suggest, CPU coolers. Look up nofan coolers. aaawave.com/p-16347-nofan-cr-95c-copper-icepipe-fanless-cpu-cooler.aspx Drill a hole through the cpu pad. Might want a couple.
I'm sorry, but I don't understand how you can create a reflux still as you suggest in the comment below, using tape if I'm reading correctly? Simply passing vapor over an area below 212°F will not increase proof. Water cannot be removed from the vapor without condensing and revaporizing (redistilling) the condensate. This is how both reflux columns and thump kegs function. Removing water from vapor by passing it over an area below 212°F is simply not possible, nor is it how reflux works. If you pass a vapor of 40%abv through a "condenser" @190°F, you will condense the vapor without removing any alcohol, as the alcohol and water have effectively come into solution, as alcohol is soluble in water. To remove water from vapor, it must be condensed and vaporized a second time, ie: go through a second stage of distillation. As for your theory of creating effective reflux distillation in a narrow, air cooled pipe without packing, it is fraught with problems. First, the vapor speed will be very high in such a narrow tube, providing a tendency to blow any condensate out of the "reflux chamber" before the rising steam can heat and re-vaporize it. Second, the surface area is so smaal inside the narrow tube, very little condensate will collect and any redistillation will be minimal, and again bringing problem #1 into play, as the chance of what little does collect being blown out of the tube is not favorable to your intent. Three, your tube is so narrow, if you do get any significant condensate build-up, it will be very susceptible to flooding, ie: condensing to an excess so that it simply flows back into the boiler without any reflux occurring. Four, air cooling is not stable, predictable or easily regulated, thus making an already questionable system even more difficult to regulate. These are just the more obvious issues I observed, and others could be present that I have not thought of. If you are able to see abv% gains, they will likely be minimal at best. In closing, there is a reason why, after many years of research and development, the reflux stills currently in use are designed as they are, ie: the science of reflux distillation necessitates such designs. Current designs are efficient, effective and easy to operate systems of relatively simple design. It really doesn't get much simpler than the common designs of today while still remaining easy to operate and effective. Good luck, I think you're going to need it!
Yes tape. But not just everyday tape. Something like duct tape. And my copper coil it much too narrow for water vapor to form inside without it being pushed into final collector so the vapor will be refluxed IN the cook pot long before it hits the copper tubing. I don't know how much improvement there will be but I know there will be some. And you may be partially right, water in a still might not condense exactly at 212, but it is a figure I did research.
Well, you've got a "unique" perspective on reflux... I guess all I can say is good luck! Others have explained how reflux distillation is achieved, as have I, and you seem not to care about anything but proving us wrong. I'll leave you to your experiments. Be safe.
one correction at the beginning the temperature of water BOILING not evaporating is 212 F water evaporates at any temp above the dew point even below the dew point somewhat if the humidity is low...
Well technically, yes you're right, but you'll wait for days for a quart of liquor if take it literally evaporate at that temp. Generally the info is correct for the layman to understand, and that's all I'm doing here. Didn't want to get too technical and confuse people.
I've seen many better examples of making more surface area inside the column using copper plates silver soldered or braised to the inside of the column by making cuts all the way up the column and inserting plates on an angle. Another is to put many copper tubes that run the full length of the column like a Gatling gun. It's held together buy copper plates top and bottom and its like a removable insert or canister can even drill out to allow the vapour to pass through all the tubes as well, It has holes cut out in the centre of the holing plates to allow the vapour through. I think this is the most effective way and you can stuff with copper mesh sponges as well making more surface area. Mucking around with foil or other metals and fans using more energy when 94-96% could be achieved for ages makes not much sense to me personally.
you're confusing boiling with evaporation. water BOILS at 212. It evaporates at any temp between 32-212. Alcohol evaporates at any temp where it's liquid as well. This is a fundamental error in this video.
One disadvantage to this will be being a small reflux would be puking your mash the steam vapors will contact and start pushing up the pipe , However if you use beads or copper wool like I use in the upper column so the alc. vapors go thru but the co2 vapors fall back down , It will help cool though.
using copper will remove sulfates in your brew. the still doesn't need to made out of copper. just use some copper piping.. in any device or container used for food products. lead free solder is required. you may think that any lead on your cooling fins will be o.k., but, small amounts of lead may vaporize, if lead based solder is used. be safe...
Ausiewood, that's actually spot on figures on the watts. Never used electric eliment before,i love the propane version,call me old fashioned. I'm considering it now though. I need a still that fits in my house. Don't need neighbors getting wise to my skills lol. No longer in the country. Eliments may be the answer.
If you were to build a column in such a way that you alternated the diameter going up the column, do you know if that would have any effect? In other words 3/4 reduced to 1/2 then back 3/4 maybe three or four times the length of the column. Basically creating mini chambers. Just thinking out loud, nothing more :)
Well thought through but one thing I've seen is to use a copper mesh within the reactor column to help keep the water from making it out through the consider. With the reactor size you ate talking about it just seemed to be way to much of a hassle to build. If you are going to do something like that you might as well go for making a larger still. This is coming from the knowledge I have from my job. I have just started making my own whiskey so I've been looking up all kinds of indo I can get on making a good whiskey recipe. I work at a chemical recycling plant and run very large fractionation machines, thin film stills, and reactors. We use ceramic, in a couple of the ractor colums on the smaller machines.
Thanks for the video. I do not speak English, however, I would like to make burbon as a hobby. I live here in Brazil and we do not have this culture, nor a lot of how a handicraft distillery is made. Could you indicate some book or schema that you have there for me to buy, or fabrication schemes of what you are demonstrating, grateful.
Really cool!!! I've been obsessed with this lately, reflux and thumpers in general. Anything to get a cleaner product :) I have a 1/2 gallon Mason Jar thumper, I put pure copper scrubbers in it(that I boil clean before every usage), and I put just enough water in it for the copper "input" pipe to touch, no more no less. The output is just a small condensor I've had for awhile, not the big immersion coil types, but the smaller ones that you pump water through constantly(I've used an aquarium pump for nearly 3 years on it) It's been really great!! High proof, no having to mess with collecting low wines and "re distilling" them, which is something some people do, but I don't think it is efficient, also it comes out very clean, and at a more reasonable speed. I even thought about trying a second 1/2 gallon Jar after it, like a double thump, but who knows. Never hurts to try! This video has inspired me to try something different when I build a copper thumper though. Run the copper thumper dry, but immerse the outside of it in cooling water. Thanks for the information!!
The crap that appears here and elsewhere is just that, crap. Yeasts, and there are many of them, convert sugars, and there are many of them, into ethanol, drinkable alcohol and into some nastieas as well. Yeasts do not feed on starch. Starches need an enzyme to convert them into useable sugar. Do not waste time. Start with fermentable sugar, preferably glucose or dextrose but supermarket sugar, sucrose, will do. There are many alcohols. Methanol is the two carbon atom alcohol which will kill you, pronto. Avoid it. Ethanol is the three carbon alcohol which we drink and, most of us anyway, enjoy. There are other four, five and plus alcohols which will give you a fucking hangover or worse. Avoid them too. Start with right sugar, sucrose, dextrose maltose or fructose, basically six carbon sugars. Use a decent yeast, supermarket dried yeast will do the job. Keep the mix sterile. That is; keep everything close to boiling point in the early stages. Put a lid on things and let it cool to blood heat before adding the yeast. Add it too soon and you will kill it. It is a living organism.
Methanol is a single carbon alcohol, ethanol is C2H6O. Go back to school
6 років тому
I know nothing about stills I came out of curiosity. But why not use a 3/4 baseboard radiant slantfin type of pipe already designed to cool off and dissipate the heat. The 3/4 pipes with the stamped aluminum (I think) fins
One, because that would be a special order, but it could be done. The local hardware doesn't carry stuff like that. And two, simply because I want everyone to be able to build their own equipment from scratch. Some people overseas just don't have the luxuries we do of purchasing special equipment. I do plan on making something similar to what you proposed, but again, from scratch. But I will mention this in the video when I make it. Make no mistake. You're idea is good for people that can find the parts.
The reason the reflux riser is larger diameter is to decrease restriction and backpressure in the boiler. You have completely overthought this and created either a very low production still or a dangerous one.
"The reason the reflux riser is larger diameter is to decrease restriction and backpressure in the boiler." And then they either pack it full of marbles and copper mesh, increasing restriction and back pressure in the boiler, OR it has to pass though several plates full of small pinholes, again increasing restriction and back pressure. You have completely underthought this My one still has an even smaller diameter cooling coil with no reflux riser. It's not going to get any more restriction by adding in a slightly larger diameter tube before the smaller one. Oh, but since you are SOOOOOO worried about back pressure you can split the up tube into multiple up tubes of the same diameter and decrease back pressure, or don't you think that much? Took me the time of reading your comment to think of that.
wcemichael You sir are a moron. You seem to think you invented the heat sink or the cooling fan. The alcohol expands hundreds of times its original volume after it boils off and if it has no place to go it will blow the still up. The reason the worm is smaller diameter is because the alcohol steam is condensing and dripping out the end. HELLO
hlyautey " You seem to think you invented the heat sink or the cooling fan." TROLLING. That would be like saying Henry Ford thought he invented the wheel.
One has no control over the temperature at which the alcohol is created, unless one turns the power down, which stops production. I run my system using 2300 watt heaters and the alcohol production determines the temperature, not the other way around. So I cannot see how you can "lower" the temp. Chears
So where would you say is best to add a thermometer? to the Pot it's self or to the top of the lid? Ive put a thermometer to the lid and the Vapor temps before anything moves are near 200f
I don't need a temp gauge, but if you so inclined to do so I would put the gauge in the liquid. If I had a reflux column, I would put it on the metal at the top of it, not where the steam is.
Thanks so much for the reply, Really enjoy the vids! Going to do a cornmeal mash shortly, just need some of that enzyme. I was thinking of doing malted barley with it but don't really know the ratios. Been looking, I guess I can always follow a traditional bourbon or something.
***** Well if it's your first time, I suggest to start simple by making brandy from store bought wine, until you understand the still. Then ferment your own wine, so you understand fermenting. Then go on to grains.
great video..i was recently researching plate condensers. tbh, i never did think about it as a reflux. No matter the variables, the theory is correct. thanks for getting the wheels turning. A true distiller is innovative, never afraid to build their own.
Again, thanks for all your videos. Can I ask a really simple question. Is moonshine drinkable? I mean.. enjoyable? I live in Australia, so I can't taste traditional moonshine from a bottle shop. I have no idea what corn liquor or a home made rum tastes like (what I want to make). I am toying with the idea of making a still, but I want to know if I am only going to produce something that will strip the skin from my throat? there will obviously be a learning period, and some poor quality runs on my first attempts (only to expected, and acceptable to me), but in your honest opinion... can you produce something drinkable with enough experience from simple equipment (I am looking at a 30 litre stainless steel stock pot, 8-10 litre thump keg, about a 4 meter 1/2 inch copper worm and multiple passes through the still if necessary)? I don't want to go through all the trouble of constructing the still, and churn out something where the fumes alone would kill a brown dog. If most shine is pretty rough, regardless, will aging in a barrel with chips make a significant difference to smooth down the resulting product? Thanks
Ok, remember this. All store bought spirits are the same as moonshine in the basic sense. The store bought stuff is backed by years of experience and refinement, while homemade stuff CAN either be just as wonderful or equally vial depending on the guy that made it. I have made many different recipes and they have turned out nearly as good as any store bought stuff. HOWEVER, at first years ago I made stuff that today I would not touch today. As I got better and tried other peoples brews, I could notice the lack of quality in some and never asked for another drink. So if you try some home brew and think there is something wrong with it, don't think that's normal just because it's moonshine. It's off the mark from the maker having a lack of experience. About the only thing that I can't fully replicate is Cognac. Even though I have created something close to it, I can't fully replicate ALL the processes exactly, but that's just because cognac is such a high quality spirit that replicating it perfectly is near impossible, but can still be enjoyable. In short... Always strive for the best quality you can get.
Okay here's what I don't get... water evaporates at 212 and alcohol 173 degrees. Do you need a reflux or thumper if you keep steam a consistent 175 coming from the pot to the worm?
You don't need a thumper or reflux at all, it's just a trick to get a slightly higher proof by allowing the water to condense first and run into a different container.
Have you considered running the the air-cooled column at a 45 degree angle to make sure all rising steam touches the metal? Also instead of fins, what about soldering washers up the lenght of the column? That way each heat sinking connection is pulling heat from the full 360 degrees of the round pipe. Combined that should give a fair amount of reflux. Running another 45 degree angle down to the worm, also finned with washers would conserve some ice (or cold water, whatever you are using) by dissapating more heat on the way down.
Ah, someone thinking. I like it. Off the top of my head, I don't think those things mention really matter, BUT at the same time I think it is very creative, and I don't see why they wouldn't work. I mean, I see exactly what your getting at and think it is very clever. I just don't know how much better your idea would be if you put it side by side next to my idea. If you do a 45 degree reflux, I still would not use a large diameter tube for the same reasons mentioned in the video. What I would do as an improvement, only for a larger scale still is...... either take a large diameter tube, but only flatten it somewhat, OR make several T's coming off the cook pot and make multiple refluxes going up and then coming back together into one single tube. I have a unused solar water heater with no box just sitting around that would be perfect for the job. Either of those would increase the total amount of cooling surface but still have a narrow channel for the steam to get through.
Hi, Subed and LIKED!!!!!!,, Could I Use as a Outer, a sq Pc.Of stainless steel Tubing,I Have left Over from a Job, Also Have some !" Od ss Tubing ??????? Just a Thought,as Its Here and Paid For,, Thanks,, Jack
Jack Connors I'll say that I've used a lot worse and lived to tell the tale. Personally I do not see a problem with SS tubing. After it was well cleaned I had some of the best stuff ever. Having said that, there is suppose to be sulfur problem that copper removes. I have no evidence of this one way or the other. SOooooo.....to be on the safe side, if you're also using a SS pot, I would throw in a couple of copper scrubber pads into the pot.
Thanks, as I Own a welding and Fab Co,so These are dropps,from My 40 Years worth, Plus what Came with It,,and Its All #)) seriers stainless,Not Like the Stuff ya BUY, Thats all a 400 series, which Means Its Magnetic,, Hell, If I was Going do That, Ive Built so Many 3/8 thick steel Round Ink Tubs,, I Could Have 3 Here tommorow,and They Hald 5000 Gals ea!!!!!!!!! All Id Have to do is Make the Coned top, which Is No Big deal at all, But Im 1300 ft Off the road,and Do Not want a 8 x 10 cell,, Thanks,,Love Yer vidios,, But Theres No work,,But Ya MMention Moonshine, GREAT FRIENDSM There ears PERK UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TY,,!!!!!!!!! Jack,, Once Im Up,ill Swend Ya a TASTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Down,, Jack,,,
Jack Connors Hey, since you're so into welding and have stainless. I was going take a water heater apart and rebuild it as a still. Everything would be inside. It would have water hook up to cool it only shine would come out the E relief pipe or some other place
wcemichael THANKS, well,ive Owned a welding and Fab Co,for almost 40 Years, and 40 Ft Long Tanks for Kaman, Pratt, stanley Works,are Nothing!!!!! Sir,are You Going To Be doing a Vid,,Im In No Rush,as I Have so Much For sale,,,,, Thanks so MUCH,,i Knew I Picked The Correct Man to Respond To,,, Jack,,,:)
Jack Connors Well, my wife left me broke for my winter video budget, so I made no videos. I might make some summer vids, but they might not be on moonshine
Sorry WCE. The purpose of the column in a refluxing column still is not heat transfer; it accommodates several plates along its length (height). As the initial vapors rise, it is true that condensation begins as it hits the cooler metal components and eventually the dephlegmator (condenser at the top). But the columns are not made tall as a means to transfer heat but rather to accommodate many stages of increasingly higher proof "distillation stages." Cooling and condensing does occur in the column and creates a pressure gradient (high at the boiler-end and lower at the top) across the entire vertical column which drives the vapor towards the top. This happens progressively as the vaporization/condensing temperature drops at each stage due to properties of the higher proof liquid at each stage. As it forms, condensate will accumulate at each plate and create a shallow pool; holes in the plate are a relatively high resistance to liquid and prevents the condensate from running back down towards the boiler in the face of the rising vapor since the holes are a fairly low resistance to the rising hot vapors moving upward through the plate. The rising vapors will heat and vaporize some of the accumulated condensate as it passes up towards the next higher plate. This process continues all along the height of the column repeating at each plate. The benefit is that the fraction of alcohol at each plate is progressively higher; highest proof at the top, lowest at the bottom. The accumulated condensate at each plate cannot be totally vaporized due to thermodynamic principles, associated with the desired reflux action, and some condensate will continue to accumulate at each plate level; without a level control process, each stage could eventually flood. So a short stub of tubing (downcomer) is located in each plate that will direct the accumulated condensate to overflow or fall downward to the next lower plate where it will be reheated by vapors passing through that lower plate. The height of the downcomer determines the flooded level at each plate and also has an engineered length below the plate that assures a column of liquid is formed and will essentially prevent a bypass path for the rising vapors thus forcing vapor to pass through the plate (which is perforated with many holes or has some sort of bubble cap system). When perfectly tuned up the column could live in a state of reflux forever...not really...but a longtime. Once the desired proof is reached the deplegmator's cooling can be reduced which will allow the highest proof vapors to continue out of the still where it encounters another condenser near a collection point; this is the product condenser. Refluxing in distillation is a well understood technique mastered by petroleum and other chemical processing industries. What you are suggesting is a heat transfer fin arrangement that will just cool the vapors generated in the boiler, condensers with external forced cooling (air or water) are much more efficient. But keep looking for ways to improve this process.
I don't mean to argue with you, especially since were very polite and your first words here were not "You're an idiot", lol, but there are only 2 processes involved with distilling. Vaporization and Condensation. These happen at different temps so the location of where a certain condensation occurs is critical, either over the pot or over the final collecting container. At any rate, once my divorce is final, I plan on doing some experiments and exploring this further with just a couple of simple items.
i have ask 0 or 40 web sites about reflux tubes ver coil condenser and no one can give me a answer! so i want o see if you have good answer for me? if coil condenser setting in cold water worked for well over 200 years now why do people use's reflux tubes? and what dos copper have to do with my moonshine? i'm using stainless steel and my shine comes out just great....
+sam smith Ok, one part at a time... For ever 1 percent of alcohol you get 2 points of proof, 200 proof or 100% alcohol being the highest rating.People use reflux to give them a higher percentage of alcohol, because more of the water vapor condenses first and falls back into the still, the remaining alcohol vapor reaches the coil and condenses there, falling into your collection container. The problem I find with this is, unless your making gas for your car, most people will add more and more water afterward to make a drinkable proof. ....Example. I make an average of 100-130 proof and I add spring water to make sure it's at 100p. These other guys are making 150p or higher and then add more water to get that same 100p. The problem here is, whatever flavor you have is also being watered down......Next part. From my understanding copper removes sulphur from the alcohol. Now I don't know if this is true, but it is my understanding from what I've read.
so it seems to me your the only one on earth that can give me a straight answer! i want to thank you so so much! and i will be watching for more of your videos to come out! later buddy....
sam smith That's amazing, cause I just dealt with 2 people that keep telling me I don't know shit, Oh yea..... They talk with the people in those forums that you can't get a straight answer from. LOL
Buddy i know what you mean! i have watched 10 or 12 of your videos now and ALL of them is very close to how i make my moonshine and it all comes out great! i have learned alot from you! i have watched around 50 other videos on distilling moonshine and almost everyone has all different ways to make it. to me there only one real way to make it right not 15 ways lol lol so buddy keep on making great videos and her in Manila Philippines i'm going to keep using your advice!...
i always see everyone using copper coils or a copper Reflux tube so what is the purpose of using copper? why can't i use all stainless steal cooking pot and coil?
+sam smith It's my understanding that copper will remove sulphur. I don't know if it's true.You can use all SS but can also throw in a copper scrubber pad.
One flaw I can see is that steam produces pressure. The smaller the tube Increases the pressure which will not allow the water to condense and fall out and away from the alcohol vapors. 1 inch pipe should be the smallest column used.
Why not just just control the temperature in a stepped process? Heat it to the lower temp to get the bad alcohols out then step up the heat to 173 degrees or slightly above. Controlling the heat with an Arduino and some heat sensors along with a relay for the heating element would be easy.
On a gas stove? The idea behind my videos is to learn the processes, not to let machines do the guessing for you. A car that can park itself usually has a driver that doesn't know how to park a car.
wcemichael No, using an electric element to heat the mash. I disagree with you on your analogy, or rather your comparison. It wouldn't be having the machine guess, but control the process. It requires knowledge of that process to program the controller to read the temp from the sensor and have the heating element do what's required. There's no guessing by the machine at all. I can understand that part of the thrill of making moonshine is doing it yourself. Part of the thrill for me is seeing if precise control would yield a superior product. Maybe it will, maybe it won't.
Bad Wolf Media Turn still on, set to temp that other guy tells you to. walk away. My method, I don't even know what temp I'm at. My product is superior because I'm always watching it and making little adjustments. The highly advanced control unit is my brain.
Actually the wash will take care of temperature control for you. When it is running off the heads it will not go above 159-162 at the top of the column/pot head. The heads will run off very fast unless you are running off more than 20 gallons of 10% wash. So it will be much easier for most to just toss the first 1.5 oz per gallon of wash. As soon as the methanol is run off then your wash will jump to 172-178. This is when you are getting great tasting high proof Distillate(moonshine, rum, vodka, whiskey). The temp will slowly climb to about 202-210 producing lower proof as well as harsher tasting Distillate as it does. This entire process will be done with out you ever adjusting the temp of your heat source. Before you make your first run fill your still 80% up with straight tap water. Set the temp on your burner to medium and see how long it takes to begin producing distilled water. If it takes less than a hour turn it down/more than a hour turn it up and do it again. Once you find out where your burner works best take note, this is where you will set it to do your entire run from now on. Of course the 1 hour rule is for stills from 2-6 gallons add 15 minutes for every gallon above this up to forty gallons. Over forty and your in the distillery/illegal moonshine business range and it would be best to consult or hire pros to help you control your still and or run from the cops.
why not just get one of those 15 feet heat pipe exchanger for home (it has surface fins) and pump your moonshine or get those car radiator/oil radiator and pump steam through those - it should condense steam to water :)
I think I'm going to try a column with cooling fins as you suggest in the video just to see what actually happens. I've got a few feet of the stuff they use in hot water baseboard heat, basically 3/4" copper pipe with aluminum fins attached to it. Figure it'll be easy enough to make into a column to fit onto my keg, then some elbows and my 3/4" Liebig condenser will fit up nice. I figure the minimal fabrication and some propane is worth it to prove if you can make a reflux column without packing, reflux condenser or large diameter pipe. I'd still like to see what you come up with as well. Thanks
Ohhhhh, That's perfect material to use for a test like that. How many feet do you have of it? I would go a min of 2 feet and have a some kind of fan set near by just to create a small breeze Can you also create a base test without the reflux for comparison? Do you have a video camera to record it? When I do mine, I'll be using either MD 20/20 or wild irish rose. It'll give me a solid starting APV that anyone can verify.
You start simple. Don't worry about a mash made from grain, that is like the last lesson in learning. And the stuff in this video is also for more advanced people but it does give actual numbers on stuff. Here is the first thing you need to know about distilling. ua-cam.com/video/JZakPUSVVKo/v-deo.html
Could you please help me? I got given this still and I was wondering how you connect the condenser to the top of the packed colum. I would love to get this still running can some one please help me here? homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=53034
Daniel Frame oh hey, sorry I missed your message. The link you had put it in a spam folder and I just now saw it. Off hand, no I don't know how to assemble this, It has so many extra parts I wouldn't know were to begin unless it was in front of me. Do like they suggested at the site and start with something more simple
Yes I know, that's exactly my point. to get use of the extra diameter in cooling you need extra parts inside. Smaller diameter tubing solves that, but you also need extra cooling on the thinner tubing. It's a trade off one way or the other. Putting some cooling fins on the thinner tubing will get extra cooling and you don't have packing that needs to be cleaned or replaced
Can you run it through a small radiator like a transmission cooler with a fan behind it that's temperature regulated when it hits a certain temperature the fan kicks on
Hmmmm. Yes and no. It would be more correct top say to dial everything in, like adjusting heat and air flow to cool things. You want everything at a constant, not fluxuating.
Just a share for anyone with ideas. I work on computers for a living and the other day while I had a desktop open, it dawned on me that most new computers have these huge heat sinks that cool the processor. Higher end models use copper, lower end aluminum. In some cases are held together with tubes. Let your imagination run with that.
Adding to your comment... I did take leftover little copper squares, wedged them into a heat sink between it's fins and managed to fit a left over aluminum piece on copper pieces, expanding the heat sink by a factor of 10. That heat sink has no fan, (it's not the main chip, that does have a fan) but the computer runs much cooler now.
there are some meth heads in my town that make stuff with blow torches, foil, and sheet metal screws and it looks just like your example reflux column.
Back in the 80s my Dutch gf's father got 90% ethanol from his still, based on these ideas. He used an old milking machine canister for the boiler, fitted it with a 50cm long/1cm dia column completely covered in fins and packed with stainless steel wool, and ran it with an ordinary household ventilator fan playing on the fins. So, I've seen the principles in action, and they work!
The short answer...It's a condenser, for making better whiskey and vodka by allowing a greater separation of the lighter and heavier elements. Why, what do you think it is, a milking machine?
Well I'm not even sure how reliable a thumper is. Personally I don't see the need for one. If you look at Popcorn Suttons last run video you'll see he has a thumper to increase alcohol %, BUT he then waters the final product down greatly. Also the temp of the thumper will slowly rise, making it less effective. Also you can just add the "backins" to your pot. That's what I do.
Thank you wcemichael. I have found your videos very informative, I was wondering if you have ever used/ or thought of an induction cooker for a pot still and if you think this would be a good way to control the temperture to boil off the methanol and acetone? thanks for the info
+Mark McPike Well you can use anything you want, I guess induction would be better than electrical heating elements. Haven't used one but they seem to look good
With respect, how can that copper thump keg (when dry) be considered 'reflux'?.. Reflux means condensates can flow back to the source, in this case the pot..
But the key goal in reflux and thump kegs is to separate the water from the alcohol by getting the water to condense first and it runs into something that is not the cook pot. Many fluted reflux columns have chambers where the water collects as well similar to that thump keg.
Iffy Signal It would just turn it into a slobberbox if its dry, it would filll. but would take much longer. And then turn into a true thumper ( I don't recommend dry.). You can't use anything from the thumper. SO you should either run your mash or your low, weak wines or feints to contact the lowest pipe and just the tip of it. If your thumper actually fills all the way up, your in deep trouble....anyone that runs a thumper, has to run it slow....the slower, the stronger and better your whiskey will be, but so will the run time. If you collect and 2 or 3 drips per sec. and say your running a 45 gallon with a thumper, without a true reflux still....and a your using a old copper pipe still, with a hammerhead and all that? Expect your run to be finished in 36 hours. And even if you don't run a thumper, and ya don't care...your shine just comes out weaker.....takes the SAME amount of time. Your jus stretching your run out with water. Only a reflux or flute still can shave real time off. Because it cools the water off before it actually gets into any 2nd cooling system
FYI: For mechanical metal contacts (not soldered) heat transfer grease is available. Typically it’s used between heat producing components on electronic circuit boards and finned heat sinks. The grease insures full thermal contact to the heat sink. GREAT CHANNEL!!! Thanks for posting.
wcemichael You are way ahead of me..... I should have figured! I love your channel. I did some distilling in my 20’s. Thank you for reminding me of those good times. I’m a new subscriber as of last week...
I don't like to stereo type people and places BUT I'll bet he has a California background. There is a common thread through to many people there that let their egos power what comes out of their mouths. Admit being wrong about something, are you kidding. The louder and faster you throw the bullshit out there , the more right you are. Research, facts, common sense, who needs them!!!?
+tomisnt You're welcome. The biggest piece of info here is, unless your making gas, you don't need it. BECAUSE when I make a batch without double distilling or using thumpers, ect. I already get at least 100 proof, usually up to 130p then I use spring water to bring it down to 100. IF I were to get my proof up to 150+, I still want people to still be able to enjoy it (but still have that little extra kick) and I would still water it down to 100p AND by doing this I also water down flavor and it no longer tastes that good. This is why we also make a cut at the end of a run, because the taste gets too watered down to be enjoyed.
hi I was wondering I was told you can only make a still out of a certain type of copper is there any truth to this certain type of copper is there any truth to this or is it a lie or can u use any type I'm asking cause I want to get a still but now I'm scared I don't want to get a still someone went to lows or something for the copper and poison myself and my family/friends thanks
+Jacob Crab How many types of copper can there be???? Copper is copper that I'm aware of. There different grades I would guess and I don't see a problem there. I am seeing some info on "food grade" copper, whether there is such a thing I don't know. Just make sure you don't use steel or lead and if you have to use brass at all, just make sure you keep it to as few of pieces as possible. Here is some info I found www.artisan-distiller.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1332
No, I usually get at least 100 -130 proof out of any mash or wash with extra sugar in the mix. I've never gotten any lower than 80p without extra sugar. So it's not really the size of your still but the strength of your mash, and how well you distill it. People wanted the info on this so I gave them the basic math behind it.
Yea yea, but the boiling point is actually lowered with alcohol in it. For all practical purposes, it was easier to say evaporates, than go through extra explanations which would only confuse some people in the end.
Great video with the right information. I have 24 quarter inch copper tubes through the top half of my column. Looks like a porcupine, but works great with just a small fan on it.
2:40 You realize that is a pot still, NOT a reflux still...? The passive reflux you get from that small riser, is neglectable. That means you won't get a higher ABV in your product, it is what it is...a simple pot still. Also, I wonder what the thumpers shown have to do with it? IF you were to put a thumper on after the pot still, THEN and only then you would get a higher proof due to the second distillation. That's clearly not the case here, so again...it's just a pot still.
3:33 "As much heat displacement in the air.." Again you are telling people wrong facts, and you don't understand what a reflux column does..! You actually DON'T want anything to condense on the walls, you want to let the vapor travel ALL the way to the top where your reflux condenser is located. The reason is that you want to take advantage of all the packing/plates in the column. Btw...my reflux column is insulated, which has the nice side effect of lowering the heating costs.
7:42 "There are other things you can put.." Ohh...sure you could use steel if you wanted an inefficient air-cooled still, if not ..use materials that are suitable for it. Why do you think heatsinks on electronics are copper or aluminum?
9:10 Once again you don't understand the basic theories of such still. It's not a matter of disappeat more heat to get a higher proof. The height of your column determines the proof, i.e. how much packing/plates the vapor would face.
10:30 WTF..??? Now it's really clear to me you don't know shit about distilling..! That's an air cooled condenser, NOT a reflux column! In a million years this won't be any reflux column! A reflux column HAS to be perpendicular to function, the picture shows a contraption that is roughly 45 degrees tilted. That would mean all reflux would run down one side, rendering the rest of the packing useless.
12:00 Now you want to tell us a pot still with a thumper is a reflux still, as long as the thumper is dry??? WTF??
The distillate can't even run back into the boiler and you call it a reflux still.
Well, read and learn a little before you tell people such shit... You still have a lot to learn before you should teach others.
Yes this guy has no clue what he is talking about, I saw that when his best alcohol % was 130.
Feel better now?
Well said and spot on.
Glad I'm not the only one who was thinking that's not how a distillation column works.
@@DaniGirl6 Yeah. There are just too many badly build distillation rigs on UA-cam. Also, a lot of people with absolutely zero understanding of how these things work. That results in a bunch of bad and in worst case scenario dangerous "advise" /false facts, that the novice would take for good.
You must pack that exposed space with marbles, racing ring's, ceramic chips, ect....This will yield more surface area to your vapor. Bio engineer
You're so over thanking it. copper chore boyt botem and glass marbles.
You're so over thanking it. copper chore boy at bottom and glass marbles.
You're so over thinking it. copper chore boy at bottom and glass marbles.
That is my point. You make this big space then need more surface area inside or the steam will pass through it untouched. IF you have a narrow tube then all the steam will have contact with it.
Russell McGahee I use ceramic cubes, it's all about surface area. Runs faster and more efficient. That's as long as you know what your doing with temp.regulation.
the interior of the reflux column isn't empty it's filled with either ceramic and copper saddles ,or copper mesh
Interesting approach. How have your results been?
Evaporation is different than boiling. Water can evaporate at any temperature. It depends on the surrounding pressure and temperature that determine evaporation. Like when you pass a lake or a pond when it is very cold. You can see the evaporation of the water and it condensing back into water when it comes off the surface of the water and it condenses again when it reaches the cold air. Nothing wrong with what you said just how it was said. I know what you meant though and Just want to say thanks for the info. I thank you for sharing your expertise.
+Steve Rabon Yea water will evaporate just above freezing, but the info is in it's most basic form so people get the idea without having to cram too much info in their heads. Sometimes over teaching can overwhelm them.
For what we are doing, that don't apply. Only variable in the process is altitudes. Our temp reading will go lower at higher altitude. His figures are good at sea level. This is not even in the same galaxy as fog on a pond lol. Here we are boiling water and alcohol and we use the VAPOR POINT difference between the two to separate them. Alcohol becomes a gas if you will, before water when heat is applied.
Evaporation and boiling is two different equations. Sea level as you say water boils at 212. It can evaporate at any temperature. On a cold day or on a hot day. Water can evaporate and become a vapor. That is what evaporation is when water becomes a vapor is what evaporation is. I know some wants to use that term when it comes to boiling point, but it doesn't make it fact.
Steve Rabon Yea, I dumbed down the info for that average viewer. Water evaporates even at just above freezing. If you reduce the pressure you also reduce the boiling point, but that can be too much info for some people.
Yeah I had to learn all this in AC/R classes. I understand and said so in my first post, but it looks like I had to correct a know it all.
i use a refux colum and they are very efective. try stuffing the colum with copper scrubers to increase surface area for condensation to occur. i build all of my stills with borocilicate glass and stuff my reflux colum with small glass marbles to increase surface area to trap water condensation.
Me too.
A little disagreement. water boils at 212. It evaporates when you have a 30 degree difference. That is why you have fog , clouds etc. Right info other than terminology.
Great info!... Immediately gets me thinking of several ways I could increase cooling surface area and, at the same time, reduce steam bypass within the column...
Thanks!
just run water-cooled worm around the reflex components.
This guy gets the math right but he gets a lot wrong on everything beyond that. A thumper actually comes out to about a 1/2 second distillation and a column is usually not empty. It has copper wool AR ceramic plates in it.
While i'm not a fan of reflux stills I do own 2 and that's not how they work or are made. All true reflux stills share 1 common element. They have plates inside of them which act like several small thump kegs. The first one i purchased about fifteen years ago was packed with 3 layers of copper mesh separated about 6 inches apart(4 inch mesh wadded up in sections and separated 6 inches from the top of one section to the bottom of the next) The wash would evaporate into each of the packed layers then separate the water from the alcohol until it came out the condenser at around 186 proof. Hot as hell but no flavor.
The second one i purchased about 2 years later and is known as a hillbilly flute. It has four actual copper plates as well as glass sight glasses. Each plate is concaved down and has a hole on each side so that they are constantly re condensing the the water vapor.
Your diagram and the way you are explaining it is what happens when someone detunes their column so that it was now a pot still. As i said i don't like reflux stills but I do own and have ran several of them for friends. Not trying to bust your balls and even though I've been doing this for years I still watch and enjoy your videos. Keep up the great work!
Thank you wcemichael for the very informative UA-cam presentation. I learned a lot.
+Bill Astell ;)
How would this measure up against the more traditional means such as a thumper keg, or glass bead packing, or more recently perferated plates or bubble plates as some call them, as their are a few different types?example being the recent hillbilly flute. Excellent still, I know the guy that made it, and it probably can provide consistent 94% alcohol with an experienced southern man running it. BUT, it is costly, and extensive. Not as familiar with thumper keg set ups, we used them for the sake of tradition, and to learn the old ways. I used sections of glass beads about an inch deep, works reasonably well, compared to bubble plates, and works the same. Plates might be more efficient however.
Rather use a half meter 50mm copper pipe and put half meter 15mm copper pipes in til it is full of pipes inside giving it alot of surface area for the steam to touch and condens on
Thanks a lot I really like the way u explain the concept of what u doing ..
Thanks a lot I really like the way u explain the concept of what u doing ..
Buy made in America people. Let’s keep America great again.
Great video,good to see people improving semi-ancient tech. Have you considered a peltier module for your heat displacement/condensing needs? Placed on the fins of your proto it could (even only using it at 3-6v,instead of the full 12v) over compensate for the accumulated heat,I wouldn't recommend using the full 12v supply because the temps would reach freezing (and below).
ua-cam.com/video/vf90zIUPpMo/v-deo.html
Why are you suggesting to use a column as small as what you hold up to the camera? Am I getting this right? If I am then I'm reminded of what a professor said to a student one time...."It's not even wrong." To even suggest using a column that small, you never list a reason, is completely ridiculous. It would immediately choke, and then puke mash. What's more, the diameter is too small to maintain any meaningful level of reflux, which is sorta the point of the whole thing, so you get no reflux, no point in even having a reflux still. You apparently think you are very clever for all this, but you are doing no one any good, and in the end, your advice is dangerous at worst, and leads to worthless stills at the least.
+Duane Estill Wow!!! Just how would a choked tube magically draw up mash to a tube that is inches above it??? Blocked tubes must cancel gravity.... And I did list my reasons, explained them in detail. Guess you think you're being clever.
I DO HAVE AN ACTUAL QUESTION: which worm position is better a worm working uphill or downhill with an uphill exit? or is it as some claim to best be used sideways so the alcohol can cool the steam also.. i understand the thump keg is designed to drop the water out of the steam first while allowing the 180 proof alcohol steam thru...but the worm problem is the next question.....flowing bottom to top, in a vertical alligned coils with horizontal tubing in a corkscrew going UP or DOWN? most say down or you get spurts and pops...some say the corkscrew laying on its side so alcohol will settle in the bottom of the corkscrew.and give more time to condense in the water...like a U shape in the sink to block the smell from coming back up and the drain from drying out and to catch your rings and sticks.....but in this instance it would be to keep some alcohol in the bottom to allow it to condense more until the pressure pushes some thru
Hold up a second. Too many questions at once.
First. Cooling coil. Downhill, all the way
Thumpkeg. Yes, it's just a short burst of quick coolness, but I don't use one.
Have you considered trying a 1" diameter steel reflux column packed with copper wool?
Just starting to get into distilling, got my first batch of mash fermenting away!
Also, what length/diameter coil would you recommend for a 20qt pressure cooker setup?
Thanks a million for your helpful videos!
You can do it that way. I'm not saying either way is better, but my way does the exact same thing, just with the same math worked out differently.
Get a least 6 to 10 feet for the coil then add what ever you need to get from the pot to the coil. Don't get any smaller dia then what you've seen me use.
Good info. Brainstorm! I am going to use this info and use a 4' length of 3/4" copper baseboard heat element already covered in aluminum fins made to dissipate heat. No more 2" column. Thanks. Now I see this is 5 years old.
Keep me posted on your results.
I would like to know how this works out for you. I was thinking the same thing. Thank you.
I will use 1/2" baseboard element off the line arm. Easy add on. Will update.
@@joeogden7361 ok, thanks for your reply looking forward for your results.
Question, why could you not just use a piece of copper/ aluminum radiant hot water heating . Your drawing was what I was think of.
Excellent
You have some good ideas, but, this one,, hmmm...
Reflux is about getting a higher proof.. Valved Reflux about control of the process. Internal vs External, etc..
Valved Reflux also flexibility to run as a standard pot still without the packing, etc..
It is about letting the Steam vapors rise, cooling at the head, and letting a portion of the vapors(water and Alcohol) condense and fall back into the packing, getting heated again and the distillates(alcohol) again turning into steam and going back to the condenser to migrate out at a higher proof, while the water flows back into the pot.
That is why you see some Column refluxes with two condensers and some with valves to redirect a percentage of distillate back to the column.. Also why you see some with cooling at the top of the head, and I think you are referring mostly to internal cooling tubes in the columns in your comments.
The volume is for the packing (which restricts flow), to still have a reasonable flow, and for the packing to also heat up (the reason you run a Reflux still in full reflux for a while to "Heat it up",) so it will help to turn the falling condensates back to vapors....
Your view of all of this is too simplistic. You are not talking about making any sort of reflux still,, just a new type of condenser, but, using it as a mid shaft in your still.. Not sure what that is going to do considering the size, but, don't waste too much time working on it until you have a better idea of what is is you want to do...
Thumper kegs are basically Pre-coolers (proof boosters) before condensing. It is similar to the concept of the Reflux, but, exactly in reverse.. Where a column in reflux condenses and drops the condensate back into the column to further distill, and steam again, the thumper keg cools the water hopefully, and leaves it in the keg, hoping most of the alcohol vapors rise into the tube going to the final condenser.
The time spent cooling is fairly quick. The steam turns into a bubble and it makes it's way up through the water before rising again and going out to the condenser. As the still runs, the water warms,, as more water is condensed and warmed in the thumper, therefore lessening the condensation factor on the rising steam, as the steam bubble has to travel higher through the warmer water. Less colder water, or more water of the warmer variety, still runs about the same over time, but, does create a higher final proof.
Lets clear up something else at the beginning of the video.. Your temperatures are not "Evaporation Points",, but, Boiling Points.. There is quite a big difference between the two, and a point of some MASS confusion..
Put a teaspoon of 190 proof on a counter top in an Air Conditioned room at 70 degrees, and come back in a day or two, and you will have 10% left in your spoon.. (KEY: A constant 70 degree temperature),, while the Alcohol continues to "EVAPORATE",, not Boil away...
If it were simply a "Evaporation Point" at say 212 degrees for water, we would never have rain,, or,, your Teaspoon of 190 proof would always remain 1 teaspoon below 173 degrees for ethanol. Nor, would we have Fog after a rain, etc..
Next time you raise your lid on your fermenter, notice how you raise the lid.. You pop it to one side, and let the "WATER" run back into the fermenter.. Huge amounts of water condensates on the inner lid.. Nothing 212 degrees there either..
Now, you understand why,,, when you run a still, you don't get 100% Alcohol or 200 Proof distillates..
If it were that simple, it would be all about temperatures..
Here would be what you would be reading on "EVERY" website out there talking about distillery..
Pour in Mash, Fire up the Still, Turn up heat to max temp.. Turn on cooling supply.. When you see the first drips, this will be your thin alcohols etc.. Turn the heat source down and maintain the temp at 133 degrees until your drip stops,,,,,,
Then, raise your temperature to the next level... Heat until about 173 degrees, and your next distilate will start.. It will also come out at 100% or 200 Proof..
When it stops, if you want to see something else drip out of the end of your condenser, you will have to raise the "BOILING POINT TEMPERATURE" to 212 degrees to get the water out... Of course, there might be something else that comes out between, and then after that next degree point, based on particulates, etc.. IE.. Salt increases boiling temperatures, etc for example, so other things in your mash might also create some irregularities..
I will leave you with a thought, since you are a thinker,, and maybe you will come up with the Next Revolution in Stills..
Raise that Fermenter lid again and watch the volume of water run off...
Bump the water off, and wipe it with a clean rag and put the lid back on.. Go back in an hour or two and look again at the NEW volume of water on the lid... Yes.. Quite a bit... Now.. Once your Mash is done,, and you are ready to go to the still,, do one more thing... Take a portion of your mash, and put it in something where you can heat the mash back up to brewing temperature.. Say 80-90 degrees.. Warm it, and put the lid back on again and come back in an hour or two, and lift the lid again.. This time,, lift it evenly, and let the water drain into a cup/bowl, etc,, and give it a sip.. Yep. You will be amazed.. Alcohol with that water... I guarantee you that,, when I sit down and put some thought into it, with some time, I will be able to show you a totally new way of Separating the two.. I believe the key is Temperature Variance... NOT just Boiling Points, and in your comments "Evaporation Points".. Since we know that Alcohol and water will both evaporate at room temperature,, given the time,, I think we can both see that Alcohol will evaporate first.. And very likely, at a lower temperature variance..
I have not put much thought into it, and have never put a thermometer to it, but, I would bet that water will condensate between 15 and 30 degrees F, and that makes me think that Alcohol will or might condensate between 5 and 15 degrees variance..
I see the rain hit the cool white water river of the Nantahala river. The rain is darn cool, but, the river is cooler.. A heavy Fog develops over the river pretty quick.. One day, when I am not so slammed with projects, I'll take a water temp and the temp of the rain, and have a starting point to play with.. In this case.. The still would be made of some sort of wide flat plates with some sort of cooling running across the plates at one temp, and the mash at a warmer temp below it. I would most likely work from an angle of how would this work if there were no Electricity... But, I would first use whatever I had to to verify the temperature variances before I started the "Prepper Distillery".. Ha..
Every time you raise your Fermenter lid, you think about this.. And, no, you never noticed this before, because your mash has never been that warm at the end of your fermentation.. I run Temperature controllers and keep mine at a constant for the duration.. I don't do distilling, although I did research it, and tried it with something I threw together for the learning experience.. But, I do like to brew wine,, and I start and finish my wines,,, ready to bottle in 10 to 12 days.. Secondary Fermentation is a completely manual process that takes me an evening for 6to 12 gallons of wine, and it is ready to rack first thing in the AM.. I break every rule in the book, and when I try to enlighten people on the wine forums,, they say I am not brewing wine, but, I am brewing "Hootch".. One day, I will catch one of the PrimaDonna's, and hand them a glass of wine, and let them rant and rave about it, and then, tell them, it is some of my 12 day wine.. Ha.. Have had many fine wine drinkers beg for a bottle or two..
Good Luck with the Distillation.. Keep up the videos..
Oh,, and BTW...
One more point.. Being a wine maker, and one day getting interested enough to start researching distilling,, I ran across the "Don't Drink it or go Blind" Moonshine Heads comments... I thought to myself.. What a bunch of Garbage..
When you make "Moonshine" or Rum, or Vodka, or "White Lightening",, what are you making??? Really???
A Wine that you are going to Distill. Wine Recipe.. Juices, Sugar Yeast.. Whisky: Grains Sugar, Yeast.
What creates Methanol Esters??? Research that too... Fruits are much higher than grains.. Never heard of anyone going blind drinking wine??? It has nothing to do with the Distillation process,, only the Fermentation process common to both methods of making spirits.. Wine Musts have much more methanol esters than Whisky Mashes..
The POISONS that come out of Moonshine??? HA,,HA,, HA... WHAT A BUNCH OF GARBAGE...
Government Propaganda to keep people from buying a $2.00 bottle of untaxed Alcohol from the local hardware store, instead of the $10/bottle Government Taxed Spirits.. The Word "DENATURED Alcohol?".. De-Natured.. Or De-Naturalized.. Or,, Not Natural any more.. It's all Ethanol, before the Government forces producers to "Poison" Ethanol not designed or "Approved" for Drinking.. Try to get a Distillery Permit.. GOT CASH??? And,, get a Fuel Permit.. Hell, it's free!! Same Stuff..
But, if you have a "Fuel Alcohol Permit", if it came off of your still, and it is in a bottle, it has to be "Poisoned" before the cap goes on.. Back in the days of Prohibition, when the shiners lost a load, if they got in a pinch, and the demand and consequences for not meeting the demand was high enough,,,, in went the methylated spirits,, commonly called DeNatured Alcohols... This was just after the Poison mandated by the Government was added.. Now you know about the Heads..
Research "methylated spirits" and DeNatured Alcohol and you will see what I am talking about..
Then, research Methanol Esters, and do some research on Apple Juice and Orange Juice and tell me that drinking the Heads is worse than drinking the same amount of "Apple or Orange Juice".. Ha..
EVERYTHING IS TOXIC in the right proportions. EVEN WATER...
I just did a quick search and found two good articles to get everyone started to see the bullcrap the Government has dumped on the public's heads...
homedistiller.org/intro/methanol/methanol
after this article, check this page out.. Make sure you see the "Lethal Doses of Common" WATER, COFFEE, etc... at the bottom of the page.. BTW, don't trust anything you see on any .gov sites, nor any Western Medicine sites either. Cancer was not caused by Lack of Chemo or Radiation..
Excuse my rant.. If it wasn't Illegal for someone to distill for their own consumption, people like me would be playing with stuff like this, and enjoying the challenge of learning, testing and developing new skills and procedures for making better spirits.. Hell.. I studied Primary and Secondary Fermentation for 3 or 4 days before I decided that I could break every rule ever written about making "Good Wines", and make better wine than I have ever tasted.. French wines being the best I have enjoyed. Every bottle I brew is better than the absolute best bottle of wine I have ever tasted, and people who have never liked wine love my wine. Those who are wine lovers really can't get over the taste of my wines..
Don't believe anything you hear about anything.. Research and learn.. If it doesn't sound right, and you think you know what you are talking about, then, it probably isn't... Go with your gut and experiment.. Learn something new every day.. Get good at it and then move onto another subject or another experiment. Share what you are sure about on UA-cam and let others start where you left off and educate the next subscriber..
Don't let the Government win... It's not::: I want, I want, I have, I have,,,,, now I owe, I owe, so Off to Work I go,, to be a good boy and do what I am told.. Don't keep up with the Jones's.. They ain't too smart anyway..
Figure out how your Great Grandma and Grandpa did it... If things keep going like they have been going, we all may just be wishing we knew how to make a bar of soap out of Fat and Ashes..
I just so happened to be making my yearly batch of Berry Blend wine... My favorite recipe, and decided to once again do a little UA-cam on the subject.. Then, got off into a discussion with someone talking about Going Blind with Moonshine.. I thought...Hmm.. Same process.. Where does the Methanol get created.. Did my research, and figured I would finish the night with some Moonshine videos, since I will be talking about this for a bit with some others and ran across this video.. Figured I would jump in, and learn some more by commenting to others.. You will learn more from teaching others than you will ever learn on your own.. A Student will never catch up with his Teacher or Master, because the Master or Teacher is always learning while teaching.. You never know what you Don't understand, until you begin to teach others and explain what it is that you know.. Cheers.
+Mark Thomas There is only one point to a reflux still, and only one way to make a higher proof with a still like this no matter what you name it. The heat slowly dissipates so the water can condense first while gravity can carry it back to the pot instead of the worm. Anything you build that allows this will work. There is no distilling it hundreds of times like some people say.. there is no fractionating like some people say. And to answer your question. The "what are you making" goes along like this. When the fist oil refineries were distilling kerosene for lamps from crude oil (this replaced whale oil and gasoline wasn't being used yet), the first thing that came out was gas. The gas was collected and dumped, then the kero came out. The same thing is going on with distilling alcohol. The first thing you get out of your still is poisonous alcohols like acetone and these can make you go blind when too much is drank. It is called "heads". Like the gas, it is collected first and you can dump it or save it to light fires. THEN you can start collecting the good stuff.
+wcemichael Yes. I am familiar with Samuel M. Kier, who discovered crude in his Salt operations in the Mid 1840's, who finally used in 1851 the horizontal cylindrical stills to create what he called Carbon Oils, that within the next 10 years resulted in 58 different refineries in Philli with different types of distillation techniques to make different products.. Of which nothing back in those days is being used today, as far as "whole distillation processes", although Vertical Columns and Fractional Columns of those days are still used today in creating spirits, since it is a much simpler system than trying to separate crude oils.
Which is created first, gas or kerosene depends on which process you are referring to, and whether the gas is the aerosol product or gasoline which is usually not referred to the end product until it is blended with the other waste like products produced during distillation.
EVERYTHING at some volume is "Poisonous" to the body. Even distilled water at 6 ltrs/day.
I am curious about the "Poisons that make you go blind"..
These Alcohols are produced in the Fermentation process, then refined in the distillation process.
Question:
If Methanol is poison and is removed at the beginning of distillation,,,, When/how is methanol removed from wine or beer?
ANSWER: IT IS NOT,, and has never been removed from Wines and beers.. It has always been there, and will always be there..
The fact of the matter is, that Pectins are the primary source of the creation of the methanol comes from the pectin, which mainly composed of methyl esters of galactose. When pectin breaks down, by enzymes introduced
by microorganisms, or deliberately introduced, the methyl esters combine with water to produce methanol.
Methanol is the "Go Blind" agent.. The Poisons of Ethanol and Methanol are broken down by the body in the exact same fashion. Metabolizing ethanol produces chemicals (LESS) toxic to the body than alcohol. Unfortunately, if the same chemical action is performed on methanol the result is formic acid, lactic acid and formaldehyde.
Formaldehyde attacks nerve cells, especially the optic nerve and can damage the liver and kidneys. Formic acid and lactic acid also attack the kidneys and liver.
Now that we know that Methanol is the "Go Blind Agent", lets look at some raw statistics about Methanol so we can get this "GO BLIND" in context, other than the Government Propaganda being repeated by so many today..
Other factors also go into the production of Methanol. Type of Yeast, High Targets of finished ABV's, dirty conditions going into the fermenter, lack of sufficient oxygen of the yeast in the Mash/Must, etc..
Corn Liquors surely contain less methanol than fruit wines,, especially if the distiller dumps his heads.
Wines created with "Fruit Juices" contain an average of 0.2-0.3% methanol, or if derived from pulp, or fresh fruit by enzymatic degradation, the levels can be 0.4-.06 or 0.6-0.9 which is 2 to 3 times higher than juice wines.
So,,, if you are concerned about Heads in distillation,, PLEASE DO NOT DRINK ANY WINES.....
AND,, in fact,, lets look at Orange Juice.. Orange juice contains 10 to 50 times as much methanol as sugarmash.
Sorry, I could not put my hands on a Orange Juice vs a standard Fruit Juice or Fresh Fruit Must, but, you get the picture.
Now, lets look at Recommended vs Lethal Doses of the same Orange Juice..
"Dietary surveys have shown that an extreme consumer of orange juice drinks slightly over 2 litres/day. The estimated maximum intake of methanol based on this consumption would be 455 mg for a 60 kg adult
which is below the maximum advisory intake of 600 mg per day for a 60 kg adult, "Recommended" by the Department of Health."
So if we stay under 600 mg per day we are "SAFE", that's the same as 200 liters(52 Gallons) of mash per day or about 70 liters(18.5 Gallons) of 40% alcohol per day if you weight is 60 kg.
I'm sorry, but, that by itself would be a new record in Guinness Books..
Now, lets look at the Lethal Doses..
The lethal dose of methanol is equal to about 80000 mg or you need 27000 liters of mash at least to get that amount. I challenge you to drink 27,000 liters of mash (7132 Gallons)..
Or, Imagine drinking a lethal amount of wine... Maybe 5,000 Gallons of wine AT ONE TIME... to get a Lethal Dose..
But, it is a concern, if you are going to Separate your Heads and drink them rather than throw them away.. I will agree to that totally.. But, to make a run and not throw them away, and mix them with the rest of the pulls, it is right back to the mash numbers.. You would not want to pull heads from a 5 gallon batch and drink them, not included with the rest of the batch, that would force you to spread them out over a weeks worth of drinking..
The fact of the matter is, that neither Ethanol or Methanol is going to make you healthy.. But to think that if someone doesn't pull their Heads, you are going to go blind is just plain not paying attention to the facts..
The total amount of methanol in mash expressed in ml is about 0.1 ml = nothing.
I'm glad we have that to set the records straight.
+wcemichael
To the Reflux Stills..
If you are familiar with running Reflux stills, you run them for 5 to 10 minutes (preference), to "Warm" them up. To get them to operating temperatures.. You don't find anyone insulating their columns, and you won't find anyone who is cooling them either. You will however find all of them (who are running in Reflux mode rather than Pot still mode), packing the columns with Copper wool, Ceramic Rings, etc.. to add volume to the column.
You would not add a volume or packing inside of a Column, if you wanted to Insulate or vice versa Cool the external of the tower. It would be defeating either or both of the purposes..
There are wild variations to the Reflux Stills. Internal vs External and Valved Reflux for example.
The Internal would be the only Reflux still that I could imagine you are basing your ideas on, because the water feed to the cooling coils at the top of the column are also running through the middle of the column.
At the bottom of the column, there would be a lot of condensation that would drip back into the pot, and that would be if there were no packing.. The packing would be heated up by the rising steam across the whole volume of the column, while only the water feed pipes themselves plus a very small portion of the packing around them that would be active condensers. The water warms as it rises, and the steam cools, so the net effect is not realized until the top of the condenser, where the condensates drip back down through the packing and rise again before making it back down to the pot. This is where the higher proof collection comes from..
But, it is much easier to understand, when you look at a Valved Reflux Column. And it would be well worth while to look at the Fractional column also.
You mentioned that there is no distilling it hundreds of times.. I have never heard that claim.. But, a valved reflux still, after determining it's maximum distillation rate, best runs at 1/3 collection and 2/3rds reflux, depending on your setup, but, that is a good rule of thumb. So, 2 oz out of 3 would run back down the column, to further refine or increase the proof. The "Re-Evaporation" of the distillate in the column, before it makes it to the pot,,, and in this case,, AFTER it passes by the condenser. The Valved reflux still usually only has a single condenser..
AND, they can be unpacked and run as a Pot still, where the Internal Reflux still can not. The fundamental design of the same "Reflux Still" is totally different. I can't see how you can Lump all of them in a single class and say they all work the same way, when you are talking about anything less than they are designed to be used as a "Reflux" still, and that is not even true in the case of an unpacked Valved Reflux (Now a Pot Still)..
www.moonshine-still.com/still.pdf
Take a look at this document. About page 42 or the Chapter 11.
I can't think of a better still with more flexibility, etc.. They are much, much easier to operate for a beginner operator. It does the same thing that a pot still and Thumper Keg does, but, much more efficient, smaller foot print, and isn't prone to leaks or pressures. It is an open system.
It is much easier to see and anticipate the splits for Heads, Hearts and Tails. You can anticipate via temperature and then, confirm via taste, burn test, smell, etc.. to learn the process vs try to figure it out while you make mistakes.
It can be run as a Reflux still for higher proofs and a cleaner distilate, or it can be run as a Pot still if you are running something with a full body that you want to keep the full flavor of the distillate.. to be honest, I don't see the loss of flavor pot over Reflux.
I give my waste wine fruits away to others who do their thing with them. Some have multiple experimentals and I have been a part of tasting many batches from each. The Valved reflux still in this link that I have just posted is an exact replica, and I can't see a better piece of equipment with more functions and efficiency in a single uncomplicated package..
Unless you can come up with more than what you have said up to this point, I think it is obvious that your understanding of "Reflux Column stills" isn't where it needs to be yet to be making authoritative statements about it. I agree it is much more complex than a Pot still based on the millions of Pot stills out there all based on the exact same design, but, the Reflux still is an evolutionary still. Something that came after years of experimentation, and varying designs. In fact, the distillation of Petroleum went through this same evolution with these same devices.
Cheers.
BTW.. According to my research, the Rums made from Molases that are below 15% ABV are said to have "NO" methanol products in them. I will be at least suggesting that some runs be made to determine if this is true or not, using the crude flame test to check the results.
Mark Thomas
Sigh....So you've turned this into a pissing contest....Wonderful. Sorry but here is why you are wrong. The water and the drinkable alcohol boil at different temps. It is this difference that allows people separate them. Simple basic science. One evaporates quicker than the other at the same temp. This same simple basic science is still in effect with the non-drinkable vs drinkable alcohols. The laws of physics don't change. There is a difference in temp at which each will boil. This difference allows us to separate one from the other. Again, basic science. I have done this so many times I can tell the difference in what I am getting by taste alone. Cognac makers are so skilled in this they can tell the difference between savable and non-savable alcohols by smell alone. So now we know you know absolutely nothing about distilling, but like talking about it A LOT anyways. As as for what is a lethal dose or not and all the other stuff you feel the need to talk about to make yourself appear more knowledgeable is just that, a red herring so you can look down your nose at me. Have a wonderful life.
Your running to hot if you needed all that stuff.
and what about internal half rings on the inside of the reflux to impede the flow of the steam to grab more heat without impeding the flow of water back to the still pot....kind of made to make the steam corkscrew up the reflux..put the half rings inside at an angle all the way up the reflux staggered around the inside you could cut a section off the reflux to trace the inside curve then solder it but this would take a tube bigger than 6 inches diameter but also to grab all the heat by spiraling the steam instead of sending it up the center ...
Too complex, I'm just covering the basics for new learners by simplifying everything.
But I like your thinking.
why not get 1/4 inch tube 1/2 inch 1 in, 2 inch and 3..put them all inside one another with holes drilled without..the 1/4 is the shortest one, and up and up acting like rings of metal to help condense the water back out, only letting the vapor rise... so if your total stack height is 2 feet, the 1/4 pipe is 6 inch, then 8, 12, 16 so by the time it gets to the top to go into the cone and down the pipe most of the water is condensed out.. and as the steam comes out is spreads out ward, also giving it two metal surfaces to touch as it rises..
or you could just put some sheets of metal though it creating more surface and the steam passes it and condenses out water..
and you can get copper tube with heatsinks on it from the water cooled computers...takes all the work out of it..and just soldering up your connections...
I wish I could figure all this out without blowing up my house.
What part is giving you problems?
the pressures are not that great if you follow WCEMICHAELs instructions.
If I may suggest, CPU coolers.
Look up nofan coolers.
aaawave.com/p-16347-nofan-cr-95c-copper-icepipe-fanless-cpu-cooler.aspx
Drill a hole through the cpu pad. Might want a couple.
I'm sorry, but I don't understand how you can create a reflux still as you suggest in the comment below, using tape if I'm reading correctly?
Simply passing vapor over an area below 212°F will not increase proof. Water cannot be removed from the vapor without condensing and revaporizing (redistilling) the condensate. This is how both reflux columns and thump kegs function.
Removing water from vapor by passing it over an area below 212°F is simply not possible, nor is it how reflux works.
If you pass a vapor of 40%abv through a "condenser" @190°F, you will condense the vapor without removing any alcohol, as the alcohol and water have effectively come into solution, as alcohol is soluble in water.
To remove water from vapor, it must be condensed and vaporized a second time, ie: go through a second stage of distillation.
As for your theory of creating effective reflux distillation in a narrow, air cooled pipe without packing, it is fraught with problems.
First, the vapor speed will be very high in such a narrow tube, providing a tendency to blow any condensate out of the "reflux chamber" before the rising steam can heat and re-vaporize it.
Second, the surface area is so smaal inside the narrow tube, very little condensate will collect and any redistillation will be minimal, and again bringing problem #1 into play, as the chance of what little does collect being blown out of the tube is not favorable to your intent.
Three, your tube is so narrow, if you do get any significant condensate build-up, it will be very susceptible to flooding, ie: condensing to an excess so that it simply flows back into the boiler without any reflux occurring.
Four, air cooling is not stable, predictable or easily regulated, thus making an already questionable system even more difficult to regulate.
These are just the more obvious issues I observed, and others could be present that I have not thought of.
If you are able to see abv% gains, they will likely be minimal at best.
In closing, there is a reason why, after many years of research and development, the reflux stills currently in use are designed as they are, ie: the science of reflux distillation necessitates such designs.
Current designs are efficient, effective and easy to operate systems of relatively simple design. It really doesn't get much simpler than the common designs of today while still remaining easy to operate and effective.
Good luck, I think you're going to need it!
Yes tape. But not just everyday tape. Something like duct tape. And my copper coil it much too narrow for water vapor to form inside without it being pushed into final collector so the vapor will be refluxed IN the cook pot long before it hits the copper tubing. I don't know how much improvement there will be but I know there will be some. And you may be partially right, water in a still might not condense exactly at 212, but it is a figure I did research.
Well, you've got a "unique" perspective on reflux...
I guess all I can say is good luck! Others have explained how reflux distillation is achieved, as have I, and you seem not to care about anything but proving us wrong.
I'll leave you to your experiments. Be safe.
one correction at the beginning the temperature of water BOILING not evaporating is 212 F water evaporates at any temp above the dew point even below the dew point somewhat if the humidity is low...
Well technically, yes you're right, but you'll wait for days for a quart of liquor if take it literally evaporate at that temp. Generally the info is correct for the layman to understand, and that's all I'm doing here. Didn't want to get too technical and confuse people.
wcemichael YES SIR, Ive had the evaporation Prob,,,,, LOL,,,, Any Tricks On VODKA!!!!!!!!!!!? Thanks,,, jack
This vid will lead you down the wrong path
To the dark side of the force?
I've seen many better examples of making more surface area inside the column using copper plates silver soldered or braised to the inside of the column by making cuts all the way up the column and inserting plates on an angle. Another is to put many copper tubes that run the full length of the column like a Gatling gun. It's held together buy copper plates top and bottom and its like a removable insert or canister can even drill out to allow the vapour to pass through all the tubes as well, It has holes cut out in the centre of the holing plates to allow the vapour through. I think this is the most effective way and you can stuff with copper mesh sponges as well making more surface area. Mucking around with foil or other metals and fans using more energy when 94-96% could be achieved for ages makes not much sense to me personally.
you're confusing boiling with evaporation. water BOILS at 212. It evaporates at any temp between 32-212. Alcohol evaporates at any temp where it's liquid as well. This is a fundamental error in this video.
One disadvantage to this will be being a small reflux would be puking your mash the steam vapors will contact and start pushing up the pipe , However if you use beads or copper wool like I use in the upper column so the alc. vapors go thru but the co2 vapors fall back down , It will help cool though.
wcemicheal my wife and I have been trying to make some homemade shine and are only getting waterded down stuff at the beginning. Any tips?
using copper will remove sulfates in your brew.
the still doesn't need to made out of copper. just use some copper piping..
in any device or container used for food products. lead free solder is required.
you may think that any lead on your cooling fins will be o.k., but, small amounts of lead may vaporize, if lead based solder is used.
be safe...
Ausiewood, that's actually spot on figures on the watts. Never used electric eliment before,i love the propane version,call me old fashioned. I'm considering it now though. I need a still that fits in my house. Don't need neighbors getting wise to my skills lol. No longer in the country. Eliments may be the answer.
If you were to build a column in such a way that you alternated the diameter going up the column, do you know if that would have any effect? In other words 3/4 reduced to 1/2 then back 3/4 maybe three or four times the length of the column. Basically creating mini chambers. Just thinking out loud, nothing more :)
Well thought through but one thing I've seen is to use a copper mesh within the reactor column to help keep the water from making it out through the consider. With the reactor size you ate talking about it just seemed to be way to much of a hassle to build. If you are going to do something like that you might as well go for making a larger still. This is coming from the knowledge I have from my job. I have just started making my own whiskey so I've been looking up all kinds of indo I can get on making a good whiskey recipe. I work at a chemical recycling plant and run very large fractionation machines, thin film stills, and reactors. We use ceramic, in a couple of the ractor colums on the smaller machines.
Thanks for the video. I do not speak English, however, I would like to make burbon as a hobby. I live here in Brazil and we do not have this culture, nor a lot of how a handicraft distillery is made. Could you indicate some book or schema that you have there for me to buy, or fabrication schemes of what you are demonstrating, grateful.
Really cool!!! I've been obsessed with this lately, reflux and thumpers in general. Anything to get a cleaner product :)
I have a 1/2 gallon Mason Jar thumper, I put pure copper scrubbers in it(that I boil clean before every usage), and I put just enough water in it for the copper "input" pipe to touch, no more no less.
The output is just a small condensor I've had for awhile, not the big immersion coil types, but the smaller ones that you pump water through constantly(I've used an aquarium pump for nearly 3 years on it)
It's been really great!! High proof, no having to mess with collecting low wines and "re distilling" them, which is something some people do, but I don't think it is efficient, also it comes out very clean, and at a more reasonable speed.
I even thought about trying a second 1/2 gallon Jar after it, like a double thump, but who knows. Never hurts to try!
This video has inspired me to try something different when I build a copper thumper though. Run the copper thumper dry, but immerse the outside of it in cooling water.
Thanks for the information!!
I like the thump keg better but I havnt maid any for over a yr and am planning on adding a thump keg to it just been bussey with other things
You can also achieve the higher proof by stuffing cap with copper scrub pads. Paired with a thumper this will ensure high proof
The crap that appears here and elsewhere is just that, crap. Yeasts, and there are many of them, convert sugars, and there are many of them, into ethanol, drinkable alcohol and into some nastieas as well.
Yeasts do not feed on starch. Starches need an enzyme to convert them into useable sugar.
Do not waste time. Start with fermentable sugar, preferably glucose or dextrose but supermarket sugar, sucrose, will do.
There are many alcohols. Methanol is the two carbon atom alcohol which will kill you, pronto. Avoid it. Ethanol is the three carbon alcohol which we drink and, most of us anyway, enjoy. There are other four, five and plus alcohols which will give you a fucking hangover or worse. Avoid them too.
Start with right sugar, sucrose, dextrose maltose or fructose, basically six carbon sugars. Use a decent yeast, supermarket dried yeast will do the job.
Keep the mix sterile. That is; keep everything close to boiling point in the early stages. Put a lid on things and let it cool to blood heat before adding the yeast. Add it too soon and you will kill it. It is a living organism.
Nobody is talking about yeasts and sugars in this video
I don't know what videos you are watching. I know and have always stated yeasts convert sugars to alcohols and have never said they work on starch.
Methanol is a single carbon alcohol, ethanol is C2H6O.
Go back to school
I know nothing about stills I came out of curiosity. But why not use a 3/4 baseboard radiant slantfin type of pipe already designed to cool off and dissipate the heat. The 3/4 pipes with the stamped aluminum (I think) fins
One, because that would be a special order, but it could be done. The local hardware doesn't carry stuff like that. And two, simply because I want everyone to be able to build their own equipment from scratch. Some people overseas just don't have the luxuries we do of purchasing special equipment. I do plan on making something similar to what you proposed, but again, from scratch. But I will mention this in the video when I make it. Make no mistake. You're idea is good for people that can find the parts.
but not in other countries. I have people watching my videos where they have next to no money and resources.
@ oh yea...Don't get me wrong, it is a good idea.
The reason the reflux riser is larger diameter is to decrease restriction and backpressure in the boiler. You have completely overthought this and created either a very low production still or a dangerous one.
"The reason the reflux riser is larger diameter is to decrease restriction and backpressure in the boiler." And then they either pack it full of marbles and copper mesh, increasing restriction and back pressure in the boiler, OR it has to pass though several plates full of small pinholes, again increasing restriction and back pressure. You have completely underthought this
My one still has an even smaller diameter cooling coil with no reflux riser. It's not going to get any more restriction by adding in a slightly larger diameter tube before the smaller one. Oh, but since you are SOOOOOO worried about back pressure you can split the up tube into multiple up tubes of the same diameter and decrease back pressure, or don't you think that much? Took me the time of reading your comment to think of that.
wcemichael You sir are a moron. You seem to think you invented the heat sink or the cooling fan. The alcohol expands hundreds of times its original volume after it boils off and if it has no place to go it will blow the still up. The reason the worm is smaller diameter is because the alcohol steam is condensing and dripping out the end. HELLO
hlyautey
" You seem to think you invented the heat sink or the cooling fan."
TROLLING.
That would be like saying Henry Ford thought he invented the wheel.
One has no control over the temperature at which the alcohol is created, unless one turns the power down, which stops production.
I run my system using 2300 watt heaters and the alcohol production determines the temperature, not the other way around. So I cannot see how you can "lower" the temp. Chears
So where would you say is best to add a thermometer? to the Pot it's self or to the top of the lid? Ive put a thermometer to the lid and the Vapor temps before anything moves are near 200f
I don't need a temp gauge, but if you so inclined to do so I would put the gauge in the liquid. If I had a reflux column, I would put it on the metal at the top of it, not where the steam is.
Thanks so much for the reply, Really enjoy the vids! Going to do a cornmeal mash shortly, just need some of that enzyme. I was thinking of doing malted barley with it but don't really know the ratios. Been looking, I guess I can always follow a traditional bourbon or something.
*****
Well if it's your first time, I suggest to start simple by making brandy from store bought wine, until you understand the still. Then ferment your own wine, so you understand fermenting. Then go on to grains.
What is dessapate?
There's an L in soLder. Also - computer heat sinks FTW.
great video..i was recently researching plate condensers. tbh, i never did think about it as a reflux. No matter the variables, the theory is correct. thanks for getting the wheels turning. A true distiller is innovative, never afraid to build their own.
Thanks for information, I will produce a homemade still soon
What about a sealed dry box between the brew pot and the worm? Anyone doin this?
I would fill with copper wire job done
Increasing the surface area of the worm seems like an easy way to help with cooling.
Thanks for the upload.
or you could use a piece of slant fin base board 3 ft long? then put a fan to it
Again, thanks for all your videos. Can I ask a really simple question. Is moonshine drinkable? I mean.. enjoyable?
I live in Australia, so I can't taste traditional moonshine from a bottle shop. I have no idea what corn liquor or a home made rum tastes like (what I want to make). I am toying with the idea of making a still, but I want to know if I am only going to produce something that will strip the skin from my throat? there will obviously be a learning period, and some poor quality runs on my first attempts (only to expected, and acceptable to me), but in your honest opinion... can you produce something drinkable with enough experience from simple equipment (I am looking at a 30 litre stainless steel stock pot, 8-10 litre thump keg, about a 4 meter 1/2 inch copper worm and multiple passes through the still if necessary)? I don't want to go through all the trouble of constructing the still, and churn out something where the fumes alone would kill a brown dog.
If most shine is pretty rough, regardless, will aging in a barrel with chips make a significant difference to smooth down the resulting product?
Thanks
Ok, remember this. All store bought spirits are the same as moonshine in the basic sense. The store bought stuff is backed by years of experience and refinement, while homemade stuff CAN either be just as wonderful or equally vial depending on the guy that made it. I have made many different recipes and they have turned out nearly as good as any store bought stuff. HOWEVER, at first years ago I made stuff that today I would not touch today. As I got better and tried other peoples brews, I could notice the lack of quality in some and never asked for another drink.
So if you try some home brew and think there is something wrong with it, don't think that's normal just because it's moonshine. It's off the mark from the maker having a lack of experience.
About the only thing that I can't fully replicate is Cognac. Even though I have created something close to it, I can't fully replicate ALL the processes exactly, but that's just because cognac is such a high quality spirit that replicating it perfectly is near impossible, but can still be enjoyable.
In short... Always strive for the best quality you can get.
Okay here's what I don't get... water evaporates at 212 and alcohol 173 degrees. Do you need a reflux or thumper if you keep steam a consistent 175 coming from the pot to the worm?
You don't need a thumper or reflux at all, it's just a trick to get a slightly higher proof by allowing the water to condense first and run into a different container.
Have you considered running the the air-cooled column at a 45 degree angle to make sure all rising steam touches the metal? Also instead of fins, what about soldering washers up the lenght of the column? That way each heat sinking connection is pulling heat from the full 360 degrees of the round pipe. Combined that should give a fair amount of reflux. Running another 45 degree angle down to the worm, also finned with washers would conserve some ice (or cold water, whatever you are using) by dissapating more heat on the way down.
Ah, someone thinking. I like it.
Off the top of my head, I don't think those things mention really matter, BUT at the same time I think it is very creative, and I don't see why they wouldn't work.
I mean, I see exactly what your getting at and think it is very clever. I just don't know how much better your idea would be if you put it side by side next to my idea.
If you do a 45 degree reflux, I still would not use a large diameter tube for the same reasons mentioned in the video.
What I would do as an improvement, only for a larger scale still is...... either take a large diameter tube, but only flatten it somewhat, OR make several T's coming off the cook pot and make multiple refluxes going up and then coming back together into one single tube. I have a unused solar water heater with no box just sitting around that would be perfect for the job. Either of those would increase the total amount of cooling surface but still have a narrow channel for the steam to get through.
Another Great vid, keep em coming.
Hi, Subed and LIKED!!!!!!,, Could I Use as a Outer, a sq Pc.Of stainless steel Tubing,I Have left Over from a Job, Also Have some !" Od ss Tubing ??????? Just a Thought,as Its Here and Paid For,, Thanks,, Jack
Jack Connors I'll say that I've used a lot worse and lived to tell the tale.
Personally I do not see a problem with SS tubing. After it was well cleaned I had some of the best stuff ever.
Having said that, there is suppose to be sulfur problem that copper removes. I have no evidence of this one way or the other. SOooooo.....to be on the safe side, if you're also using a SS pot, I would throw in a couple of copper scrubber pads into the pot.
Thanks, as I Own a welding and Fab Co,so These are dropps,from My 40 Years worth, Plus what Came with It,,and Its All #)) seriers stainless,Not Like the Stuff ya BUY, Thats all a 400 series, which Means Its Magnetic,, Hell, If I was Going do That, Ive Built so Many 3/8 thick steel Round Ink Tubs,, I Could Have 3 Here tommorow,and They Hald 5000 Gals ea!!!!!!!!! All Id Have to do is Make the Coned top, which Is No Big deal at all, But Im 1300 ft Off the road,and Do Not want a 8 x 10 cell,, Thanks,,Love Yer vidios,, But Theres No work,,But Ya MMention Moonshine, GREAT FRIENDSM There ears PERK UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TY,,!!!!!!!!! Jack,, Once Im Up,ill Swend Ya a TASTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Down,, Jack,,,
Jack Connors
Hey, since you're so into welding and have stainless. I was going take a water heater apart and rebuild it as a still. Everything would be inside. It would have water hook up to cool it only shine would come out the E relief pipe or some other place
wcemichael THANKS, well,ive Owned a welding and Fab Co,for almost 40 Years, and 40 Ft Long Tanks for Kaman, Pratt, stanley Works,are Nothing!!!!!
Sir,are You Going To Be doing a Vid,,Im In No Rush,as I Have so Much For sale,,,,, Thanks so MUCH,,i Knew I Picked The Correct Man to Respond To,,, Jack,,,:)
Jack Connors
Well, my wife left me broke for my winter video budget, so I made no videos. I might make some summer vids, but they might not be on moonshine
Nice 👍
Sorry WCE. The purpose of the column in a refluxing column still is not heat transfer; it accommodates several plates along its length (height). As the initial vapors rise, it is true that condensation begins as it hits the cooler metal components and eventually the dephlegmator (condenser at the top). But the columns are not made tall as a means to transfer heat but rather to accommodate many stages of increasingly higher proof "distillation stages." Cooling and condensing does occur in the column and creates a pressure gradient (high at the boiler-end and lower at the top) across the entire vertical column which drives the vapor towards the top. This happens progressively as the vaporization/condensing temperature drops at each stage due to properties of the higher proof liquid at each stage. As it forms, condensate will accumulate at each plate and create a shallow pool; holes in the plate are a relatively high resistance to liquid and prevents the condensate from running back down towards the boiler in the face of the rising vapor since the holes are a fairly low resistance to the rising hot vapors moving upward through the plate. The rising vapors will heat and vaporize some of the accumulated condensate as it passes up towards the next higher plate. This process continues all along the height of the column repeating at each plate. The benefit is that the fraction of alcohol at each plate is progressively higher; highest proof at the top, lowest at the bottom. The accumulated condensate at each plate cannot be totally vaporized due to thermodynamic principles, associated with the desired reflux action, and some condensate will continue to accumulate at each plate level; without a level control process, each stage could eventually flood. So a short stub of tubing (downcomer) is located in each plate that will direct the accumulated condensate to overflow or fall downward to the next lower plate where it will be reheated by vapors passing through that lower plate. The height of the downcomer determines the flooded level at each plate and also has an engineered length below the plate that assures a column of liquid is formed and will essentially prevent a bypass path for the rising vapors thus forcing vapor to pass through the plate (which is perforated with many holes or has some sort of bubble cap system). When perfectly tuned up the column could live in a state of reflux forever...not really...but a longtime. Once the desired proof is reached the deplegmator's cooling can be reduced which will allow the highest proof vapors to continue out of the still where it encounters another condenser near a collection point; this is the product condenser. Refluxing in distillation is a well understood technique mastered by petroleum and other chemical processing industries. What you are suggesting is a heat transfer fin arrangement that will just cool the vapors generated in the boiler, condensers with external forced cooling (air or water) are much more efficient. But keep looking for ways to improve this process.
I don't mean to argue with you, especially since were very polite and your first words here were not "You're an idiot", lol, but there are only 2 processes involved with distilling. Vaporization and Condensation. These happen at different temps so the location of where a certain condensation occurs is critical, either over the pot or over the final collecting container. At any rate, once my divorce is final, I plan on doing some experiments and exploring this further with just a couple of simple items.
i have ask 0 or 40 web sites about reflux tubes ver coil condenser and no one can give me a answer! so i want o see if you have good answer for me? if coil condenser setting in cold water worked for well over 200 years now why do people use's reflux tubes? and what dos copper have to do with my moonshine? i'm using stainless steel and my shine comes out just great....
+sam smith Ok, one part at a time... For ever 1 percent of alcohol you get 2 points of proof, 200 proof or 100% alcohol being the highest rating.People use reflux to give them a higher percentage of alcohol, because more of the water vapor condenses first and falls back into the still, the remaining alcohol vapor reaches the coil and condenses there, falling into your collection container. The problem I find with this is, unless your making gas for your car, most people will add more and more water afterward to make a drinkable proof. ....Example. I make an average of 100-130 proof and I add spring water to make sure it's at 100p. These other guys are making 150p or higher and then add more water to get that same 100p. The problem here is, whatever flavor you have is also being watered down......Next part. From my understanding copper removes sulphur from the alcohol. Now I don't know if this is true, but it is my understanding from what I've read.
so it seems to me your the only one on earth that can give me a straight answer! i want to thank you so so much! and i will be watching for more of your videos to come out! later buddy....
sam smith That's amazing, cause I just dealt with 2 people that keep telling me I don't know shit, Oh yea..... They talk with the people in those forums that you can't get a straight answer from. LOL
Buddy i know what you mean! i have watched 10 or 12 of your videos now and ALL of them is very close to how i make my moonshine and it all comes out great! i have learned alot from you! i have watched around 50 other videos on distilling moonshine and almost everyone has all different ways to make it. to me there only one real way to make it right not 15 ways lol lol so buddy keep on making great videos and her in Manila Philippines i'm going to keep using your advice!...
ive heard of shiners using agate. rocks as well
i always see everyone using copper coils or a copper Reflux tube so what is the purpose of using copper? why can't i use all stainless steal cooking pot and coil?
+sam smith It's my understanding that copper will remove sulphur. I don't know if it's true.You can use all SS but can also throw in a copper scrubber pad.
One flaw I can see is that steam produces pressure. The smaller the tube Increases the pressure which will not allow the water to condense and fall out and away from the alcohol vapors. 1 inch pipe should be the smallest column used.
There is logic to that, but I run extremely low pressure
Why not just just control the temperature in a stepped process? Heat it to the lower temp to get the bad alcohols out then step up the heat to 173 degrees or slightly above. Controlling the heat with an Arduino and some heat sensors along with a relay for the heating element would be easy.
On a gas stove?
The idea behind my videos is to learn the processes, not to let machines do the guessing for you. A car that can park itself usually has a driver that doesn't know how to park a car.
wcemichael
No, using an electric element to heat the mash. I disagree with you on your analogy, or rather your comparison. It wouldn't be having the machine guess, but control the process. It requires knowledge of that process to program the controller to read the temp from the sensor and have the heating element do what's required. There's no guessing by the machine at all. I can understand that part of the thrill of making moonshine is doing it yourself. Part of the thrill for me is seeing if precise control would yield a superior product. Maybe it will, maybe it won't.
Bad Wolf Media
Turn still on, set to temp that other guy tells you to. walk away.
My method, I don't even know what temp I'm at. My product is superior because I'm always watching it and making little adjustments. The highly advanced control unit is my brain.
Actually the wash will take care of temperature control for you. When it is running off the heads it will not go above 159-162 at the top of the column/pot head. The heads will run off very fast unless you are running off more than 20 gallons of 10% wash. So it will be much easier for most to just toss the first 1.5 oz per gallon of wash.
As soon as the methanol is run off then your wash will jump to 172-178. This is when you are getting great tasting high proof Distillate(moonshine, rum, vodka, whiskey). The temp will slowly climb to about 202-210 producing lower proof as well as harsher tasting Distillate as it does. This entire process will be done with out you ever adjusting the temp of your heat source.
Before you make your first run fill your still 80% up with straight tap water. Set the temp on your burner to medium and see how long it takes to begin producing distilled water. If it takes less than a hour turn it down/more than a hour turn it up and do it again. Once you find out where your burner works best take note, this is where you will set it to do your entire run from now on. Of course the 1 hour rule is for stills from 2-6 gallons add 15 minutes for every gallon above this up to forty gallons. Over forty and your in the distillery/illegal moonshine business range and it would be best to consult or hire pros to help you control your still and or run from the cops.
why not just get one of those 15 feet heat pipe exchanger for home (it has surface fins) and pump your moonshine
or get those car radiator/oil radiator and pump steam through those - it should condense steam to water :)
The heat exchanger might be a good idea. It has to be solid copper inside.
I think I'm going to try a column with cooling fins as you suggest in the video just to see what actually happens.
I've got a few feet of the stuff they use in hot water baseboard heat, basically 3/4" copper pipe with aluminum fins attached to it. Figure it'll be easy enough to make into a column to fit onto my keg, then some elbows and my 3/4" Liebig condenser will fit up nice.
I figure the minimal fabrication and some propane is worth it to prove if you can make a reflux column without packing, reflux condenser or large diameter pipe.
I'd still like to see what you come up with as well.
Thanks
Ohhhhh, That's perfect material to use for a test like that. How many feet do you have of it? I would go a min of 2 feet and have a some kind of fan set near by just to create a small breeze
Can you also create a base test without the reflux for comparison?
Do you have a video camera to record it?
When I do mine, I'll be using either MD 20/20 or wild irish rose. It'll give me a solid starting APV that anyone can verify.
Well all of it really. I start reading about what it takes and get overwhelmed. I get how to get the mash done. But its what how to after that.
You start simple. Don't worry about a mash made from grain, that is like the last lesson in learning. And the stuff in this video is also for more advanced people but it does give actual numbers on stuff.
Here is the first thing you need to know about distilling.
ua-cam.com/video/JZakPUSVVKo/v-deo.html
Could you please help me? I got given this still and I was wondering how you connect the condenser to the top of the packed colum. I would love to get this still running can some one please help me here? homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=53034
Daniel Frame oh hey, sorry I missed your message. The link you had put it in a spam folder and I just now saw it.
Off hand, no I don't know how to assemble this, It has so many extra parts I wouldn't know were to begin unless it was in front of me. Do like they suggested at the site and start with something more simple
the packing just catches the water vapors and drops them back into the pot and the alcohol passes through to the cooling coil. done!!!
Yes I know, that's exactly my point. to get use of the extra diameter in cooling you need extra parts inside. Smaller diameter tubing solves that, but you also need extra cooling on the thinner tubing. It's a trade off one way or the other. Putting some cooling fins on the thinner tubing will get extra cooling and you don't have packing that needs to be cleaned or replaced
Can you run it through a small radiator like a transmission cooler with a fan behind it that's temperature regulated when it hits a certain temperature the fan kicks on
Hmmmm. Yes and no. It would be more correct top say to dial everything in, like adjusting heat and air flow to cool things. You want everything at a constant, not fluxuating.
Thanks brother. Such a good solid description of the process.
Just a share for anyone with ideas. I work on computers for a living and the other day while I had a desktop open, it dawned on me that most new computers have these huge heat sinks that cool the processor. Higher end models use copper, lower end aluminum. In some cases are held together with tubes. Let your imagination run with that.
Adding to your comment...
I did take leftover little copper squares, wedged them into a heat sink between it's fins and managed to fit a left over aluminum piece on copper pieces, expanding the heat sink by a factor of 10. That heat sink has no fan, (it's not the main chip, that does have a fan) but the computer runs much cooler now.
you need a better mic or it to close to your mouth !
Very informative, thank you!
there are some meth heads in my town that make stuff with blow torches, foil, and sheet metal screws and it looks just like your example reflux column.
thats becuase a still is basicly a chemistry set.
i would love to see it tested on a refux, in the book "the compleat distiller" he talks about how fins would work, maybe back to back it on a still
Back in the 80s my Dutch gf's father got 90% ethanol from his still, based on these ideas.
He used an old milking machine canister for the boiler, fitted it with a 50cm long/1cm dia column completely covered in fins and packed with stainless steel wool, and ran it with an ordinary household ventilator fan playing on the fins.
So, I've seen the principles in action, and they work!
this guy should find out what a reflux column actually is before he posts videos telling everyone about them
The short answer...It's a condenser, for making better whiskey and vodka by allowing a greater separation of the lighter and heavier elements. Why, what do you think it is, a milking machine?
What should I use in my thumper my first run?
Did you ever figure this out lol, that’s what I’m trying to figure out
You should test this! Show us your results.
So u have to fill the thumper with alcohol well not fill but a lil past the lowest pipe what if its my first run on a still should i leave it empty ?
Well I'm not even sure how reliable a thumper is. Personally I don't see the need for one. If you look at Popcorn Suttons last run video you'll see he has a thumper to increase alcohol %, BUT he then waters the final product down greatly. Also the temp of the thumper will slowly rise, making it less effective. Also you can just add the "backins" to your pot. That's what I do.
Thank you wcemichael. I have found your videos very informative, I was wondering if you have ever used/ or thought of an induction cooker for a pot still and if you think this would be a good way to control the temperture to boil off the methanol and acetone? thanks for the info
+Mark McPike Well you can use anything you want, I guess induction would be better than electrical heating elements. Haven't used one but they seem to look good
I would have hoped you had covered the thumper and its operation in this as its in the tittle.
I did. The principle behind it is covered. It work the same as the reflux. The cooler liquid allows some of the steam to condense.
I WOULD USE 1 1/2 COPPER PIPE, ABOUT 2" AND PUT LIKE 4 OR 5 COPPER RISER CLAMPS ON IT
2 FEET MEAN NOT 2 INCHES
With respect, how can that copper thump keg (when dry) be considered 'reflux'?.. Reflux means condensates can flow back to the source, in this case the pot..
But the key goal in reflux and thump kegs is to separate the water from the alcohol by getting the water to condense first and it runs into something that is not the cook pot. Many fluted reflux columns have chambers where the water collects as well similar to that thump keg.
Iffy Signal It would just turn it into a slobberbox if its dry, it would filll. but would take much longer. And then turn into a true thumper ( I don't recommend dry.). You can't use anything from the thumper. SO you should either run your mash or your low, weak wines or feints to contact the lowest pipe and just the tip of it. If your thumper actually fills all the way up, your in deep trouble....anyone that runs a thumper, has to run it slow....the slower, the stronger and better your whiskey will be, but so will the run time. If you collect and 2 or 3 drips per sec. and say your running a 45 gallon with a thumper, without a true reflux still....and a your using a old copper pipe still, with a hammerhead and all that? Expect your run to be finished in 36 hours. And even if you don't run a thumper, and ya don't care...your shine just comes out weaker.....takes the SAME amount of time. Your jus stretching your run out with water. Only a reflux or flute still can shave real time off. Because it cools the water off before it actually gets into any 2nd cooling system
What’s the difference between reflux and fractionated?
Not sure there is except for having multiple chambers for doing the exact same thing and I don't see the need unless you're making fuel for your car.
FYI: For mechanical metal contacts (not soldered) heat transfer grease is available. Typically it’s used between heat producing components on electronic circuit boards and finned heat sinks. The grease insures full thermal contact to the heat sink.
GREAT CHANNEL!!! Thanks for posting.
Yes I know. It's used on computer chips. I plan using a couple cooling fans with heat sinks in future videos. This was just explaining the process.
wcemichael
You are way ahead of me..... I should have figured!
I love your channel. I did some distilling in my 20’s. Thank you for reminding me of those good times.
I’m a new subscriber as of last week...
I don't like to stereo type people and places BUT I'll bet he has a California background. There is a common thread through to many people there that let their egos power what comes out of their mouths. Admit being wrong about something, are you kidding. The louder and faster you throw the bullshit out there , the more right you are. Research, facts, common sense, who needs them!!!?
What are you talking about?
This video is full of nonsense.
Then been specific, not general. I can say "you're stupid" but it doesn't prove anything.
Lmao man ur on some good shit and it ain’t shine ....
Lmao even more...Care to elaborate on that thought, or are you just telling me it's wrong but have no idea what??
Thanks for posting this, you just saved me hours and answered my thumper question in minutes.
+tomisnt You're welcome. The biggest piece of info here is, unless your making gas, you don't need it. BECAUSE when I make a batch without double distilling or using thumpers, ect. I already get at least 100 proof, usually up to 130p then I use spring water to bring it down to 100. IF I were to get my proof up to 150+, I still want people to still be able to enjoy it (but still have that little extra kick) and I would still water it down to 100p AND by doing this I also water down flavor and it no longer tastes that good. This is why we also make a cut at the end of a run, because the taste gets too watered down to be enjoyed.
Can you use Water Pex tube? its high temp
No. It's high temp but not alcohol steam temp. You also need heat transfer from the metal. Chemical lab equipment could be used.
hi I was wondering I was told you can only make a still out of a certain type of copper is there any truth to this certain type of copper is there any truth to this or is it a lie or can u use any type I'm asking cause I want to get a still but now I'm scared I don't want to get a still someone went to lows or something for the copper and poison myself and my family/friends thanks
+Jacob Crab How many types of copper can there be???? Copper is copper that I'm aware of. There different grades I would guess and I don't see a problem there. I am seeing some info on "food grade" copper, whether there is such a thing I don't know. Just make sure you don't use steel or lead and if you have to use brass at all, just make sure you keep it to as few of pieces as possible.
Here is some info I found
www.artisan-distiller.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1332
Lol ty I feel kinda stupid now but better safe them sorry right lol now I'm going to kick my friend in the knee thanks again
I believe you are confusing boiling point temperatures with evaporation.
Yes, but the wording is better for your average layman
I like whiskey too, but "boilin' & evaporatin' " is two differnt critters!
So do you need to make a thump keg or reflux column for the smaller pressure cooker still you made?
No, I usually get at least 100 -130 proof out of any mash or wash with extra sugar in the mix. I've never gotten any lower than 80p without extra sugar.
So it's not really the size of your still but the strength of your mash, and how well you distill it.
People wanted the info on this so I gave them the basic math behind it.
One shouldn't make a still out of any such crap as a pressurecooker! This guy is nuts..
212 is where water boils not evaporates
Yea yea, but the boiling point is actually lowered with alcohol in it.
For all practical purposes, it was easier to say evaporates, than go through extra explanations which would only confuse some people in the end.