the plugin that ruined music

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  • Опубліковано 26 гру 2023
  • lalals.com/ref/370/
    Ultimate Recording Template: stan.store/georgetmusic
    In todays video I take a look at the wave l2 limiter a plugin used by many pro mixers like dave pensado, jaycen joshua, manny marroquin , and so many more. I go over the controversial reputation that pertains to this plugin and how it has evolved into the plugin that it is today.
    Waves Plugins: bit.ly/38LfoOf
    Instagram: / georget_music
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КОМЕНТАРІ • 486

  • @dustincicero7452
    @dustincicero7452 5 місяців тому +206

    What’s ruining music is not the tools!! Lmaooo it’s the people operating the tools.

    • @JBMetalProductions
      @JBMetalProductions 5 місяців тому +20

      Its the artists writing music to fit in and be popular n' trendy, instead of just writing what they think sounds beautiful.

    • @stormie909
      @stormie909 5 місяців тому +7

      More people are able to produce than ever, so with this abundance of technology will be people that don't follow the industry standard

    • @houdinididiit
      @houdinididiit 5 місяців тому +9

      Shhhh... don't give out the real secret.

    • @houdinididiit
      @houdinididiit 5 місяців тому +3

      @@stormie909 "Industry standard" is basic science. It's not a preference.

    • @AudioReplica2023
      @AudioReplica2023 5 місяців тому +6

      @@houdinididiit What secret? Everybody knows that by now. Ego its the real assasin here . Home studio owners that think they know more than anybody and not opened to learn not even from their own mistakes regarding the feedback given on social media on their crap. `

  • @bulkvanderhuge9006
    @bulkvanderhuge9006 4 місяці тому +101

    The recording Industry: "CDs will allow you to hear ALL of the dynamics of music, from the loudest cymbal crash, to the quietest note on a flute"
    Also the Recording Industry: "USE L2 AND AND MAKE EVERYTHING A SQUARE WAVE"

    • @viciousblissvideos
      @viciousblissvideos 4 місяці тому +6

      I remember when labels went out of their way to deliver the most fidelity in their cds. It really was treated like a high-end format until we get into the mid-90s.

    • @bulkvanderhuge9006
      @bulkvanderhuge9006 4 місяці тому

      @@viciousblissvideos Yes, especially the labels that covered Classical, Baroque, Orchestral music etc

    • @viciousblissvideos
      @viciousblissvideos 4 місяці тому +2

      @@bulkvanderhuge9006 I’ve heard that even some of those have gotten affected by the loudness mentality. Movie scores definitely have. What blew my mind was that the latest Aeternus album from 2018 was a DR11. Guns N Roses Perhaps is a DR9 but the rest of the recently released songs are DR4-5..ugh. Alae Noctis is a band that puts out high dynamic range stuff. Slasher is an album that’s like a mix of Alice Cooper Constrictor, British Steel, and elements of the first three Maiden albums. The vinyl versions of the latest BOC and Megadeth albums are high DR. There are also a couple of other modern Megadeth albums that have high DR releases.

    • @billyj.causeyvideoguy7361
      @billyj.causeyvideoguy7361 4 місяці тому +2

      @@viciousblissvideoson the movie side: so many directors want the sounds and soundtrack as loud as possible at all times that its making dialogue hard to hear. Lol. Its such a stupid thing.

    • @viciousblissvideos
      @viciousblissvideos 4 місяці тому

      @@billyj.causeyvideoguy7361 You’re right. A lot of the time I do feel like dialogue gets drowned out and that loud sounds are way too loud. Luckily this isn’t the norm. I feel like the use of plugins and tighter deadlines are probably the bigger problems based on what I’ve been told about post work.

  • @angusmacangus3181
    @angusmacangus3181 5 місяців тому +175

    These guys are genius hypocrites, every song I hear from then is super heavy on the limiter.

    • @thegreatdestroyer6506
      @thegreatdestroyer6506 5 місяців тому +26

      Could be the artist/record label, telling them to do it like that. Or the mastering process.

    • @BigTeddies
      @BigTeddies 4 місяці тому +13

      Recording , mixing, and mastering. 3 different steps in the process and they are most likely in charge of mixing and then the mix is sent off to mastering where the mix is most likely getting squashed.

    • @SamiDaComposer
      @SamiDaComposer 4 місяці тому +3

      Fax there 3 different step theres recording engineer and then there might be two mixing engineer meaning one mixes and gives a blueprint of how the song should go and one touches up the mistakes of the other engineer then sent off to another mastering engineer who does his thing and sometimes there might be two master engineer so yea it goes

    • @SamiDaComposer
      @SamiDaComposer 4 місяці тому

      And every song then were limited corrected but what u forget is that back then everything was done manully meaning h had to listen and do the limited or make the automation yourself. Now we have plug in that do it with ease but the thing is they don’t hit like back then

    • @greesy5644
      @greesy5644 4 місяці тому +14

      like the irony of doing a video like that and then promote Ai stuff for your "creativity" xd

  • @jorgiewtf
    @jorgiewtf 4 місяці тому +16

    When I was an assistant engineer at a famous studio in Miami, I was unfortunately taught some bad habits with slapping an L2 on every mix (on some world famous songs) and they would always just ruin all the work that big time engineers put into their songs. Also, master engineers hated it!

  • @Bluelagoonstudios
    @Bluelagoonstudios 5 місяців тому +22

    The L1 is less invasive to my ears, if used properly, that means just the peaks that are shaven. And the mix buses has the Townhouse buss compressor on them, mostly ratio from 2:1 to 4:1 max, and depending on how good the artists are the individual tracks don't have compression on them. Except for vocals, vocals are the most dynamic "instruments" in the pack. But mostly EQ and filtering, if necessary. My philosophy with music is, less is more. I just try to make it as simple as I can get.

  • @Praytri0t
    @Praytri0t 4 місяці тому +10

    Side chaining bass tracks etc. changed my mixes so much the L2 wasn't even needed. kick cuts through, vocals seated but sounding on top. oh and a Sure SM 57 is a killer dynamic mic don't underestimate it. God Bless

    • @b.hornetiii.6771
      @b.hornetiii.6771 4 місяці тому +2

      Yes, my story too. Side chain is a bliss.

  • @perrykeshahwalker5321
    @perrykeshahwalker5321 4 місяці тому +15

    You're right the L2 and L3 can ruin your music but if you use it sparingly it sound really really good. I really don't like super loud mixes I like the moderately loud but I want the Dynamics to be there

  • @spencera.4223
    @spencera.4223 5 місяців тому +16

    a ton of top mastering engineers have the hardware L2 in their mastering chains. It isn't the plugin, it's how you use it.

    • @SamiDaComposer
      @SamiDaComposer 4 місяці тому

      Nah it’s ass I’ve tried everything with that plug in I just don’t use it

    • @DayyFinesse
      @DayyFinesse 4 місяці тому

      Mad distortion lol

  • @drrodopszin
    @drrodopszin 5 місяців тому +19

    I was ruining my stuff with L2 as well. Now that I understand a bit more, I spend way more time with sound selection and serial compression (a little, invisible compression each plugin adding up) and actual clipping. Now instead of sweating to keep the percussion audible, I need to turn down the kick and snare, which never happened before.

    • @caddenbrands
      @caddenbrands 4 місяці тому +4

      Same .. crazy how less is more ..

    • @DayyFinesse
      @DayyFinesse 4 місяці тому +1

      We’ve been lied too 😂

  • @Kaotix_music
    @Kaotix_music 4 місяці тому +32

    Speaking as an engineer myself (and yes, I am actually an engineer - not just a producer), I submitted very early to the loudness war with my music and others ive worked on. While the older generation of engineers to include many teachers of mine just couldn't stand it? I knew that was just the new era we were entering. Im predominantly in dance music so loud is exactly what you need. Record Labels will not even sign your track if it's not loud to an oblivion. The problem alot of Dance Music producers had was getting their music loud and not actually distorting that crap out of it. I was one of them. Now its just the sound of Dance Music. In my early days before I caved into the loudness war people would tell me, ESPECIALLY Djs "Dude your song is not as loud as everything on my thumb drive!" and I would just tell them "Um...you know CDJs have a gain knob above the EQs, right? Just make it louder than. Are you not gain matching all your tracks?" But I realized "Hey, this is what people want". You go to a music festival all you hear is nothing but super compressed tracks with virtually zero dynamics to any track..but thats the sound of the genre and people like it. I know engineers develop a very much acquired taste for how they feel music should sound, but let's not forget that how music should sound is very subjective to each and every single person. The amount of times ive submitted to record labels to change how my songs sounded just for them started to bother me a shit ton...but it's what people wanted. Theres very little producers and engineers and theres ALOOOOT of listeners. Theyre the ones we have to cater to, not ourselves. IF you want to cater to yourself, make music for you and only you and never let it see the light of day

    • @mttlsa686
      @mttlsa686 4 місяці тому +2

      the irony is that dance music is actually music that doesn't need to be "loud" because it's supposed to be played in places with good and loud sound systems. You can play it loud with the system without pushing it absurdly.

    • @montyrayza7220
      @montyrayza7220 4 місяці тому

      @@mttlsa686 he's probably referring to broadcast ...

    • @viciousblissvideos
      @viciousblissvideos 4 місяці тому +1

      When did anyone survey the listeners? CD sales have gone down the louder music gets. A lot of DJs used vinyl. I can’t recall any complaints about the music not being loud enough at events or clubs in the 90s whether it was 1991 or 1999. No one was wishing for louder cds or complimenting a cd for its loudness.
      The people who want the loudness are the label guys who think it’s a way to get people to pay attention to their product instead of someone else’s. Then there are artists who are worried about how they’ll be perceived if the next track is louder.
      Nowadays all the clubs from the Dennis Rodman era are gone from Chicagoland. Instead we’re getting retirement homes built all over. Maybe dance music and clubs are being built up elsewhere.
      A lot of 90s Eurodance still had dynamics. DR9-11 cds. Even Jlo Waiting For Tonight is a DR10, which is the same loudness as Eternal Flame on the original Bangles cds. When a new song or album somehow slips through with a DR9-11 range, no one complains.
      So, I’m really scratching my head on where to find any evidence that the public asked for louder music.

    • @Jaburu
      @Jaburu 4 місяці тому +1

      @@mttlsa686 yea, but at some point the transients become too loud. I don't like dance music at all but I kind of hear what they are hearing. contrary to traditional music they don't really hear/like percusive beats, but more of wall of sound doing a wave. some tracks out there the beat is basicly presented by interruptions in the synth sound....no percusive elements left at all

  • @barneywatson3959
    @barneywatson3959 4 місяці тому +43

    this is a good video but i think it's pretty lame that you completely avoid saying you've been sponsored by/have an affiliate link for lalals. i also wonder whether it's a good look to be promoting an AI service that rips off famous singers' voices on a video about "the plugin that ruined music". regardless of your opinions on ai it's clear the service you're promoting mostly exists to rip off other people's voices without their consent.

    • @georgesimpson1406
      @georgesimpson1406 4 місяці тому +8

      So true. A lot of irony here

    • @AphexHaw3k
      @AphexHaw3k 4 місяці тому +5

      Was thinking the exact same thing 🤥

    • @bigstevedzn2353
      @bigstevedzn2353 2 місяці тому

      I think you have a valid argument, but it’s not completely sound. I don’t know if you’re newer to UA-cam, but his “ad” for lalals was blatant. Yes people should probably disclose when something is an advertisement, but anyone with an iq above 70 would infer it’s an ad. And the people who can’t tell it is are probably not capable enough to even make a song ripping off popular singer’s livelihood. And ai music/stems aren’t even destroying music. If AI was larger it would be as if I created a video and my sponsor was North Korea. But right now it’s still becoming commonplace. Ultimately, it is kind of ironic with the title and the ad. But we don’t have to lead a crusade against him for probably forgetting to disclose an obvious ad.

  • @fakemusic480
    @fakemusic480 5 місяців тому +74

    The funny thing is that he used money provided by ai music merchants to criticize the last era of music technology.
    That's the embodiment of claptrap to me.

    • @------YeahOK------
      @------YeahOK------ 5 місяців тому +1

      The irony!

    • @AudioReplica2023
      @AudioReplica2023 5 місяців тому +4

      You missed the point . The critique here is against misuse of the technology , not the technology itself.

    • @ParkerEdwardsParties
      @ParkerEdwardsParties 5 місяців тому +9

      @@AudioReplica2023I love reading comment replies like this that if you read them alone would look smart, but then you read the comment they are responding to and realize they are almost completely meaningless.

    • @fakemusic480
      @fakemusic480 5 місяців тому +1

      @@AudioReplica2023 If we are talking about the misuse of technology, does it mean that electronic music technology does not need to exist?
      I mean, I think the "abuse" is the creation itself.
      The fact is that no kind of music in the world today has emerged without abuse.
      I don't have a problem with "human" abuse of tools.
      In fact what I fear is that if the future of the world is further controlled by artificial intelligence and capitalized corporations, then congratulations my friend.
      Then congratulations my friend the disappearance of this "abuse" is the disappearance of freedom.
      And the tools will become us.
      I'm not tit for tat, I'm just voicing my opinion. So love and freedom friends

    • @georgesimpson1406
      @georgesimpson1406 4 місяці тому

      ​@@AudioReplica2023 the misuse of AI is to build and sell programs that make your voice sound like a popular singer.. It can be creative to use deep learning tools for weird things but that limits you so you have to cause tech by deep faking

  • @mttlsa686
    @mttlsa686 5 місяців тому +17

    Stop the loudness war and make consumer devices with a decent amplification to hear music loud but CLEAN and DYNAMIC. (Apart from the genres that require it as a sound choice)

    • @ghfjfghjasdfasdf
      @ghfjfghjasdfasdf 5 місяців тому +2

      This… the cheap amps in everything these days, especially smart phones is imo, one of the main if not the main reason so many producers want/need their stuff at -1 LUFS, lol.

    • @SuperAgentAB
      @SuperAgentAB 5 місяців тому

      Thankfully with Dolby Atmos for Music, it'll have space and dynamic due to their own loudness spec.

    • @mttlsa686
      @mttlsa686 5 місяців тому +1

      ​@@ghfjfghjasdfasdf I've found myself doing mixes that almost didn't need mastering to sound loud and punchy, even if the LUFS were around -11. If i push them to get -8/-6 the mix lose emotion and the carefully crafted balance that i've done in the mixing process. Moreover, noticing that if i play my mix thru devices with good amplification it sound perfect, but being forced to make it sound loud on consumer device, i have to sacrifice balance and emotion in favor of loudness and this makes me mad. (Not native speaker, sorry if there's some language mistake)

    • @ghfjfghjasdfasdf
      @ghfjfghjasdfasdf 5 місяців тому

      Copy that. Do you mix to -6 when you’re mixing down? I just started producing with Live 11 this year and I find that mixing to -1 gets a mix pretty hot on its own without any limiting on the master bus.

    • @mttlsa686
      @mttlsa686 4 місяці тому

      @@ghfjfghjasdfasdf no, recently i've found a way which gives me pretty good results. I mainly work with headphones so i mix exceeding the 0 reaching around + 3 and considering that working at 32bit float doesn't necessarily introduce distortion if you balance the low frequencies properly i can hear it loud almost like it will be when mastered. When the mix is finished i check the value of the highest peak on the master bus and then i put an eq and 2 comp in series with different behavior to bring the peaks down, containing them below the zero and a limiter at the very end with 0.5 gain reduction maximum. At this point i pull the master fader down to -6 and it's ready for mastering but it sounds as it should already. The mastering process will be more a tasteful "polishing" than an invasive work where you actually make "the sound" and the character of the song. I "discovered" this technique because of the necessity to have a decent volume with hp and no proper amp or studio speakers, even if i have them.

  • @JohnGaltHasArrived
    @JohnGaltHasArrived 4 місяці тому +3

    Gently lower the gain and engage the limiter at the same time using the middle button. Toggle this setting on and off to compare the sound variations at the same dB volume. The suitability of heavy limiting varies with each track - it's a matter of how deep and rich you prefer your bass to be in the mix.

    • @CR38
      @CR38 5 днів тому +1

      this is a great great comment

  • @rustatum2382
    @rustatum2382 4 місяці тому +1

    I used to put the L2 on every mix bus of every session I worked on. One day, I did an A/B comparison with Fab Filter Pro-L, and after hearing the difference, I never used the L2 again.

  • @danbull
    @danbull 4 місяці тому +31

    For years I've been in the habit of putting L2 as the final plugin on my mixes. "Just in case". It seemed the most reliable limiter for stopping any clipping while pulling the levels up just to the point of loudness without distorting. What other plugins would you recommend to fit this role

    • @Mi_Mono
      @Mi_Mono 4 місяці тому +9

      FL Studio Maximus.

    • @thomasaustin8477
      @thomasaustin8477 4 місяці тому +9

      Someone already mentioned it but FabFilter's Pro-L 2 (not L2) is my go-to cherry on top limiter, handles anything you throw at it from tiny to large amounts of gain-reduction with enough control to taper it to get any sound you desire, from transient destroying to near-full (perceived) dynamic preservation

    • @made.online2149
      @made.online2149 4 місяці тому

      'stopping any clipping'
      platinum records deliberately clip the master both before & after any dynamics processing.

    • @averyintelligence
      @averyintelligence 4 місяці тому +1

      i usually use ProL Limiter because its relatively transparent. the transients sound better with true peak limiting off, just something to bare in mind

    • @banba69
      @banba69 4 місяці тому

      WEISS limiter

  • @iengineer_247
    @iengineer_247 5 місяців тому +7

    I use to like to use the Waves Limiters (I forgot the names I only use l1 now lol) for the dithering option and just a bit of making the sound nice and loud not aggressive loud. I mostly use the l1 on busses and I use Plugin Alliance bx limiter for mastering. I don't look for loudness I depend on my mixes having a good volume on everything and just allowing the limiter to catch the spikes if any within the mastering stage.

    • @KidKyroOffical
      @KidKyroOffical 5 місяців тому +2

      Imma put you on something try good hertz dither plugin

  • @houdinididiit
    @houdinididiit 5 місяців тому +43

    You either compress to control volume or to create rhythm/glue. I rarely use it to contain volume peaks because it just ruins everything. It's far better to just look at your waveforms and make adjustments there!

    • @TheRealCowlick
      @TheRealCowlick 5 місяців тому +2

      Amen

    • @kambollow
      @kambollow 5 місяців тому +2

      Amen

    • @trevor_mounts_music
      @trevor_mounts_music 5 місяців тому

      Oh yeah - it's SO much simpler just to edit the waveform in the sampler if it's a little bit peaky or w/e than just slam the f*** out of it most of the time.

    • @wolfgangdevries127
      @wolfgangdevries127 5 місяців тому +3

      Yeah and then put another limiter on it 😊

    • @SamiDaComposer
      @SamiDaComposer 4 місяці тому

      That’s what I do now but I will say I still use compression but only as a glue and I try not to use to much but yea adjust the wave form is the way to go that’s what I do majority of the time is just fix the wave form and another thing is artist don’t want to take multiple takes because I notice a lot of professional artist and big names even rappers take multiple takes for one word so it comes out right because what people fail to realize is performance and takes also affect the vocal in mixes and this is hard to explain but ifykyk

  • @AdderallPapi
    @AdderallPapi 5 місяців тому +10

    The L2 is a classic

  • @juleleleldilla3950
    @juleleleldilla3950 5 місяців тому +15

    Used to use L2 a lot, nowadays only use L1’s within the mix and my new fav limiter is 100% the Fg-x 2 by Slate

    • @TommyWashow
      @TommyWashow 5 місяців тому +14

      I used to use the L2 a lot, well I still do but I used to, too

    • @tsunami979
      @tsunami979 5 місяців тому +1

      ​@@TommyWashowLMAO

    • @mikeweiser2210
      @mikeweiser2210 5 місяців тому +2

      Absolutely agree with the L1 on lots of busses. The FG-X is definitely at the end of my 2 buss chain with just a bit of the dynamic knob added. There’s some great subtle distortion happening under the hood of that plugin as you can see your peaks start to tighten up as your pushing towards the ceiling. Still very smooth yet transparent as well

    • @StoicccccMuzik
      @StoicccccMuzik 5 місяців тому +1

      @@TommyWashowfellow Mitch Herberg fan spotted

  • @johnjhonny646
    @johnjhonny646 4 місяці тому +21

    L2 is a very colorful limiter. It's a useful tool and still golden. One tip is to use it as dual mono.

    • @xyzallday1293
      @xyzallday1293 4 місяці тому +2

      That's actually really smart, similar to parallel compression to a mix?

    • @JPGProducciones
      @JPGProducciones 4 місяці тому +2

      Hi. I think that's the key, all of them are just tools, they are not the magic key, they are not the ultimate solution, they were meant to be a single tool which must be used in conjunction with other tools, and the creativity and musicality must stand over all.

    • @incognegro100
      @incognegro100 4 місяці тому

      How is this actually done can you elaborate?

    • @JPGProducciones
      @JPGProducciones 4 місяці тому +1

      @@incognegro100 in Pro Tools there's an option to insert the plugins in "multi-mono mode" which means the instance will work as 2 separate mono instances which can be linked or unlinked. This is helpful when you need to compress independently each side. I'm pretty sure this is possible in other DAWs also.

    • @dustincicero7452
      @dustincicero7452 4 місяці тому

      And experiment with Dither options, lots going on there tone-wise!

  • @VocalChainsStudio
    @VocalChainsStudio 4 місяці тому +1

    Gear culture is 100% visual but production, engineering, mixing are 90% ear and 10% instinct. The influencers rarely go beyond gear culture because they pay their bills selling ads for new gear.

  • @deadtotheworld
    @deadtotheworld 5 місяців тому +4

    for my beats ill get a sub master mix so I can get the whole song at -6. Ill do parallel compression and other things to get the dynamic range tight with punch still present control the peaks with a limiter. Then I get the l2 on the master chain at the very end and put the threshold down to -6 so its really just kissing it. and brings it back to zero.

    • @themarcosaguila1
      @themarcosaguila1 5 місяців тому +5

      Parallel Compression and Saturation in the mix! especially the low end which usually is eating up the head room while not being as present on most speakers.

  • @complexity5545
    @complexity5545 4 місяці тому +2

    The key is not to use it for the leveling, but to use it for the audio matrix; it changes the stereo image. Plugins didn't kill it. Most producers don't know how to make their own matrix,transients, eq-compression, and other tricks. Waves puts those tricks in many of the things like C4, L2 that emulate hardware. Most engineers don't know about polarities and panning; that's the lost art for most engineers. Only the studious and gifted (hearing) engineers know. I was never taught, but I could hear it and I code it. Its the same way with video or any other science sampling tool.

    • @FulvioCuppi
      @FulvioCuppi 4 місяці тому

      how can an engineer not knowing about panning?

  • @AdelSweezy
    @AdelSweezy 5 місяців тому +18

    i still USE L2 as the last kiss of ur master
    just 1 or 1.5 db of reduction

  • @SPAZZOID100
    @SPAZZOID100 4 місяці тому +2

    I've been using WAVES plug-ins since the late 90's, Zero complaints. The L3 Multimaximer/Limiter is a great tool for mastering if used tastefully. I NEVER have used it on individual tracks....

  • @josephforrest3713
    @josephforrest3713 5 місяців тому +5

    L2 Shmel 2 lol.
    I'm REALLY surprised no one is talking about the R Comp in limit mode.
    That thing is AWESOME! And it isn't even close to being about loudness. It's about taming dynamics!
    I ad a liiiiitle bit of L1 to a vocal, just because it has a sound! It makes it stand out and sound more strident. But in a good way. Paired with a 1176...There it is!

    • @NoahBuehler
      @NoahBuehler 4 місяці тому

      It's a tool, how people use it is their choice....

  • @WheelieMix
    @WheelieMix 5 місяців тому +4

    *OTT enters the chat*

  • @manvince
    @manvince 5 місяців тому +4

    I've never liked any waves limiter including the l2 because they changed the tone my mix drastically.

  • @Juliano_DJOL
    @Juliano_DJOL 5 місяців тому

    Roger alwayz readz my mind w the L2ed mix verb explanation!
    Def heard many overly L2ed mixez!!!

  • @Zelectrocutica
    @Zelectrocutica 5 місяців тому +5

    This is the content we soooo desperately need folk! Blame the tools!
    What's next to blame? My mix suck because my mouse and keyboard are cheap?
    And then sponsors by AI voice lmfao, irony af.

  • @infamata_official
    @infamata_official 5 місяців тому +2

    The L1 or L2 should only ever be used a smidge, but to be honest, I don’t EVER use a limiter when mixing. My mixbuss is an SSL G-Series Bus Compressor plugin, and that’s all there really is to it.

    • @MG-jy5qx
      @MG-jy5qx 5 місяців тому +3

      Limiters on vocals is sometimes key

    • @mirkomarkovic3438
      @mirkomarkovic3438 5 місяців тому

      ​@@MG-jy5qx it's called gates sta level

  • @nuvoid
    @nuvoid 5 місяців тому +7

    i think its funny that a video about "ruining music" is sponsored by an AI celebrity voice site lol

    • @aerov2484
      @aerov2484 4 місяці тому +3

      This video is clickbait in order to pocket the ad money. No relevant information of any kind was provided. This is a waste of server space.

  • @Ch.AtonFier
    @Ch.AtonFier 4 місяці тому +1

    I knew that was CLA in the beginning. Absolute legend..

  • @djfridaze
    @djfridaze 5 місяців тому +1

    you have the best audio videos on UA-cam

  • @whosrobertseed
    @whosrobertseed 5 місяців тому

    L2, and even L1 to a lesser extent is best used to tame issues like a snare that is overpowering your overhead tracks, to the point where you have to over process and mangle your overheads just to fix bleed alone. Provided of course you are still recording a live kit. Put it first in the chain and you can kill 6 to 12db on just the snare transient giving you issues, without even touching your actual overhead sound. If you *need* a louder mix, instead of just smacking an L1 on every track, focus on utilizing clipping tastefully, EQ, saturation, proper side chaining of necessary elements, and above all balance, and then just tickle a limiter at the mastering phase. You can get a lot done in a mix by simply balancing early, and effectively.

  • @protoolsfanatic7276
    @protoolsfanatic7276 5 місяців тому

    does a L2 sound as good as the fabfilter limiter? i'm not familiar with waves plug ins. im curious because fabfilter limiter gets my mixes very loud if need be.

    • @hinky7729
      @hinky7729 4 місяці тому

      Both sound shitty when not used correct - both sound great if used correct - as with almost every tool that we have

  • @worshipdemons
    @worshipdemons 4 місяці тому

    soo it's L1 and L2 just limiters? what diference are with other limiters?

  • @bear-headstudios1212
    @bear-headstudios1212 4 місяці тому

    Ozone 9 Element + SSL Native Bus comp has always done well for me on my Master. Or J37 Emulation + Drawmer Stereo Buss .... Those have always worked for me. I've never used an L2 Before

  • @seenbelow
    @seenbelow 4 місяці тому +1

    I'm only a hobbyist in audio, but in the industry I'm working in when a client buys a service and they want to use it for something it wasn't really designed for, I take my time to explain the downsides. Heavy ear fatigue, loss of musical detail, potentially damaged speaker cones. Why are all these 3 worth it having your sh*t a little louder? I think producers do a poor job explaining the risks involved and just devolve into a "yes man" mentality. Really hope I'm wrong here... but how many times have I heard from old mixers that few hours later they showed the same mix to the client and all of a sudden it was perfect, just because their ears weren't tired...

  • @musicalvoyageur
    @musicalvoyageur 5 місяців тому +1

    does anyone have the sources of each of the clips in this vid (specifically the dude at 4:09 he seems like a nice guy id like to see the rest of the interview)

  • @quickstrike209
    @quickstrike209 5 місяців тому

    Thanks. I'm about to put this on the master 2 bus right now

  • @MrFelonyLoc
    @MrFelonyLoc 5 місяців тому +1

    Thats why I work in a rms mindset ,perceived loudness .

  • @user-uo7mz6es9x
    @user-uo7mz6es9x 5 місяців тому +10

    The best recordings feel as if they are within a space of air, giving just the perfect room for sound or sky above for sound, the sound should fill your heart at the same time. Sometimes too, silence is golden.

  • @TWEAKER01
    @TWEAKER01 4 місяці тому +1

    The hardware L2 preceded the software L2. This issue is, sure it can kill attack and snare drums and that's "a sound", but it basically punches holes in the track (ie: in the music) at every peak while also creating aliasing distortion.

  • @Mi_Mono
    @Mi_Mono 4 місяці тому +1

    Man, people really overthink music production and mastering. Myself included.

  • @bigloxxito
    @bigloxxito 5 місяців тому +8

    I really never use maximizer and limiter, I use the standard clip by Sir Audio and its the best to me.

    • @houdinididiit
      @houdinididiit 5 місяців тому

      Sir Audio is the bomb. Marc D. Nelson uses it. Shhhhh...

    • @TellMeaJokePlease
      @TellMeaJokePlease 5 місяців тому

      I don’t know why but the ableton stock limiter is my favorite. It just sounds so clean and gets straight to the point with the L2 I find that I have to drive it a lot more.

    • @StoicccccMuzik
      @StoicccccMuzik 5 місяців тому

      I used to use the sir audio standard clip. I started getting a buzzing sound whenever it was working though and switched to loudmax
      EDIT: I use both now actually. Standard clip to check the dynamics on the master track and a combo of loudmax and standard clip to alter individual sounds

  • @mrnick6270
    @mrnick6270 2 місяці тому

    What songs represent the smashed brick-wall limited sound of the legendary l2?

  • @modernistmixing
    @modernistmixing 5 місяців тому +3

    People complain about L2 but add tracks that have dozens of L2 instances to their Spotify Playlists.
    L2 is great.
    I just listened to a track I was involved with which ended up being mastered by a 21 time Grammy winner mastering engineer and the short term lufs is -4.5
    I'm sure he isn't using L2 but it's crushed to death and harsh all the same

    • @Jaburu
      @Jaburu 4 місяці тому

      do the grammys make it good? serious question

    • @modernistmixing
      @modernistmixing 4 місяці тому

      @@Jaburu Grammys are voted by the members of the of the Recording Academy. So people who actually make the records everyone listens to. And they think records make with L2 sound great. I think deferring to their opinion is safe here.

    • @Jaburu
      @Jaburu 4 місяці тому

      @@modernistmixing they judge to a standard

  • @InternetThe
    @InternetThe 5 місяців тому +2

    Cool vid, but it really needed some examples! I still have no idea what this L2 sounds like

  • @________2705
    @________2705 4 місяці тому

    L2: I ruined music
    Autotune: hold my pitch

  • @olivermaier-landshut3047
    @olivermaier-landshut3047 5 місяців тому +2

    The TC Finalizer had a similar impact.

  • @matthewchavezm.b.s5503
    @matthewchavezm.b.s5503 5 місяців тому +5

    So was it the plugin that ruined the music, or was it how people were using it....?

  • @user-kj3fs3xp5w
    @user-kj3fs3xp5w 4 місяці тому

    Used sparingly on the master bus is the best statement of the 3 most experienced mixers on the video.

  • @XXROGUE
    @XXROGUE 5 місяців тому +1

    Awesome vid - please more like this!

  • @ZykonSoftware
    @ZykonSoftware 4 місяці тому +1

    It's funny to see all these "high class" mixing engineers back then doing what would be now called a rookie mistake.

  • @milesmontgomery3000
    @milesmontgomery3000 5 місяців тому +2

    George T Music back with another banger

  • @PaulFisherMedia
    @PaulFisherMedia 5 місяців тому +2

    My mixes are always too crowded and just loud I’m learning to dial back gains and chill lol

    • @MrCheswickMusic
      @MrCheswickMusic 5 місяців тому

      That's the spirit man, chill out & skin up and sit back a bit ha ha

    • @PaulFisherMedia
      @PaulFisherMedia 5 місяців тому

      @@MrCheswickMusic yehhhh make a good balanced mix that's quiet

  • @timothybondaudio
    @timothybondaudio 4 місяці тому +1

    With most streaming services normalising to around -14dB LUFS, are we now able to reintroduce some more dynamic range? Squashing to -6dB is pointless when you're losing 8dB on Spotify or Apple etc.

    • @Jaburu
      @Jaburu 4 місяці тому

      it's more about the density now. they will still target higher levels only to achieve this. and if you don't your track want fit any playlist even after -14 normalization.

  • @officialrachi
    @officialrachi 5 місяців тому +2

    The "sound" I think it will always be controversial

  • @SuperMax_____0.0_____
    @SuperMax_____0.0_____ 5 місяців тому +2

    I will put 10 L2 on each track plus buses and master and send it to the engineer

  • @user-tx1ko6gb8w
    @user-tx1ko6gb8w Місяць тому

    I used a lot of limiters, but ended up using the l2 limiter again.

  • @HindiRapGuru
    @HindiRapGuru 4 місяці тому +1

    I put L2 in my mixes and it sounds great!

  • @madouble
    @madouble 5 місяців тому +14

    first time hearing about this plugin lol
    definitely can be tough not to fall into the "louder is better" trap, especially as someone who "engineers" my own stuff
    great vid!

    • @GuterSchenkel23
      @GuterSchenkel23 5 місяців тому

      always a/b gain match

    • @ChvckMarshallMusic
      @ChvckMarshallMusic 4 місяці тому

      I’ve used waves over the years and I use to use this plugin to raise my vocals to a line level that starts to effects tonality and saturation, for it to sit better in the mix. I think they are referring to using it on the mastering. Something I don’t do, I use UAD spark and Slate Digital plugins for all my mixing now. They are amazing. Every song on my page was used with them.

    • @jan_07
      @jan_07 4 місяці тому

      L2 has been a mainstay in mastering studios, especially the hardware-ported rack version.

  • @NewHopeAudio
    @NewHopeAudio 5 місяців тому +1

    “The plugin that ruined music”= the industry standard that ruined music.

    • @roymoxley2587
      @roymoxley2587 4 місяці тому

      Yes agree todays music pure garbage I don’t care how you mix it ,master it still sucks

  • @jayfromdaa_apk
    @jayfromdaa_apk 5 місяців тому +2

    I think the amount of master compression depends on genre. Like we can't sit here nd say that we'd rather here shotta flow in a more spatial way

  • @Juliano_DJOL
    @Juliano_DJOL 5 місяців тому +1

    Good video, i like the end and agree w that guy too, sometimez thatz what they want, so give it to em!
    Nothing worse than working w a engineer or producer that wont do anything u ask or want!

  • @mill3370
    @mill3370 5 місяців тому +1

    Didn’t know Norm Macdonald knew music production

  • @diegomotta2249
    @diegomotta2249 4 місяці тому

    I don't even use and l'Inter anymore, Just compression and clipping 💯

  • @scrummyvision
    @scrummyvision 4 місяці тому

    been insecure about master bus limiting for years... i have realized my gut was right and that the insecurity drove me further towards crushing it
    i have ssl and fairchild on master before it, also just barely kissing

  • @mansurdorado
    @mansurdorado 4 місяці тому

    i never used it, but i should try itt after this video

  • @Lance_G
    @Lance_G 5 місяців тому

    More videos like this please🙌

  • @djvoid1
    @djvoid1 5 місяців тому +6

    Ironically, there's a wave of interest in the 90s right now as far as what's influencing electronic music and the dynamics of these tracks seem to be opening up as a result (as it matches the aesthetic to do so), while retaining the low-end density and power of the last 20 years.

    • @romulus_
      @romulus_ 5 місяців тому

      got any example tracks?

    • @angurishudesu
      @angurishudesu 5 місяців тому

      ​@@romulus_ Bruno Mars' whole album in silk sonic lol

    • @romulus_
      @romulus_ 5 місяців тому +1

      @@angurishudesu that album is mostly inspired by the 70s.

  • @le_krock_mort_officiel
    @le_krock_mort_officiel 5 місяців тому +1

    I really like Maxim from protools

  • @MrCheswickMusic
    @MrCheswickMusic 5 місяців тому +2

    Look at all the best bands in history, Stones, Beatles, Floyd, Sabbath, Genesis, etc etc, think of the great pop of years gone by, 60s 70s 80s etc etc, and look at the gear they had & used, I'll say no more

    • @DerekPower
      @DerekPower 5 місяців тому

      But then again, it wasn’t so much a deliberate choice, but rather what was available. Granted, there was surely a craftsmanship to the tools being employed. But at the same time, it’s the artists and the work made who ultimately matter, not so much the tools.

  • @austingomezGAME
    @austingomezGAME 4 місяці тому +1

    Seems like some intense conclusions based on opinions and preference!
    In my view, the L2 is in fact a very powerful limiter and has to be used with sensitivity. Getting mixes loud is good. And doing so while maintaining dynamics is the goal. So having a light touch on the L2 accomplishes that. But the same issue can be caused by any limited misused. It’s a typical “inherently good but misused by our nature” kinda things.

  • @whatspadethinks
    @whatspadethinks 4 місяці тому +2

    Dude makes a video about crush limiting and the loudness wars being a nail in recorded music's coffin yet advertises an AI service that has the potential to seriously hurt the artistic integrity of music forever.

  • @soundacresstudio
    @soundacresstudio 4 місяці тому

    Bottom line is, you want it loud? That’s what your volume knob is for.

  • @harryolive1853
    @harryolive1853 4 місяці тому +1

    L2 works great... in the right use case.. I would like to know the algorithms .... and teak some more if it would possible..

  • @yasunakaikumi
    @yasunakaikumi 4 місяці тому

    meanwhile I now switched on using Loudmax lol

  • @lisan_al-ghaib
    @lisan_al-ghaib 5 місяців тому +4

    Loudness normalization didn't stop the mixes getting louder since it only works if the individual listeners have it turned on on their apps.

    • @ChristianBoragine
      @ChristianBoragine 5 місяців тому +1

      and in fact it is turned on by default on mobile devices.

    • @lisan_al-ghaib
      @lisan_al-ghaib 5 місяців тому +2

      ​@@ChristianBoragine then when it's turned off you hear just how much quieter your mix is vs what's out there and your client gets back to you and asks why you made it so quiet. Funny thing is, even with the loudness penalty, a lot of those label releases still sound louder than those that followed the -14 LUFS. But sure, believe what you want.

    • @lukaszbudzinski
      @lukaszbudzinski 5 місяців тому

      the -14 Lufs is for Noobs, nobody cares, one rule only: loud AF @@lisan_al-ghaib

    • @woodywillchange
      @woodywillchange 5 місяців тому +1

      @@lisan_al-ghaib i'm not sure, but i think it's because of "crest factor" i.e. peak level and rms level, so basically when two releases have same LUFS volume (because of normalization, ordinary crest factor doesn't differentiate much between releases with same lufs), but different crest factor, the one that has lower, will sound louder than the other one.
      by squashing with limiter, you are reducing crest factor, you are bringing rms level up, and peak remain the same (in numbers, technically it goes down).
      so if peak is basically drum peaks, and rms is basically music, by higher rms we will have louder music, so in lower crest factor we will have louder music
      if we have less limiting, we have same peak (probably), but lower rms, so we have more of crest factor, so we have quieter mix.
      so:
      -6 lufs track with crest factor say i don't know, -6
      will be louder, than
      -8 lufs track with crest factor say i don't know, -8
      if you are bringing level down (normalization) of both tracks to -14, you will not change crest factor, since both tracks just got lower volume, it got peak and rms lower.
      and because of it, -6 crest factor track will still sound louder, but less dynamic, because of difference between peak and music (rms) level is less.
      probably you can write it in far less words, but english is not native language, so sorry for long text :) and again i'm not sure, but it is probably this way.

    • @ChristianBoragine
      @ChristianBoragine 5 місяців тому +2

      @@lisan_al-ghaib the avarage user does not know about normalization nor that there is the possibility to turn it off. So you basically are producing for the minority instead of the majority of users. Seems legit bro. By the way, surprise surprise, users have volume too and they can operate it. If it sounds quiet they can turn it up, if it sounds shitty there is no loudness that can save the song.

  • @sleonse
    @sleonse 5 місяців тому

    LOVE YOUR VIDS MAN!!!!! HAHAHA they're so good.

  • @franchize3600
    @franchize3600 2 місяці тому

    Any videos from Mwtm namm2024 coming?

  • @TheHonestTruth
    @TheHonestTruth 5 місяців тому +8

    4:25 4 L3s is wild lol
    Awesome edits. Will be watching the rest of your catalog
    Also,
    I hate all waves plugins lol

    • @tyreemorrison732
      @tyreemorrison732 5 місяців тому

      Yo Facts 4 L3’s took me out! Lmaoo 💀

    • @nofood1
      @nofood1 5 місяців тому

      i hate them but not the puigchilds 🤤🤤

  • @DavidServiceMusic
    @DavidServiceMusic 4 місяці тому

    The L2 hasn't ruined music but that A.I. shite you're advertising will

  • @peterbarker6641
    @peterbarker6641 4 місяці тому

    Records are not as loud as they were a few years ago. I see most pro masters hitting -9 to -8 LUFS with some parts hitting -7. A couple years ago I saw things hitting -6 -5 pretty regularly. That difference is big in allowing for more fidelity in the master.

  • @petergedd9330
    @petergedd9330 4 місяці тому

    The best way to record a song is using a 'Scrope Shovel' I use it all the time.

  • @samuelemanta
    @samuelemanta 5 місяців тому +1

    hard clipped master is the new wave, i hear always the 808 clipped saturation 0 db whetever u wanna called it always on underground trap or in music in general

  • @MichaelLenz1
    @MichaelLenz1 4 місяці тому

    “We hate it, but we do it”

  • @reghuram9781
    @reghuram9781 4 місяці тому

    I would blame the TC Finalizer for starting the loudness wars, not the L2

  • @ReeWebster
    @ReeWebster 5 місяців тому

    Loud starts with sound selection and placement. You ain’t stacking two peaks without knowing about it.

  • @ChrisAcheson
    @ChrisAcheson 4 місяці тому

    Maybe you could have supplied a demo track to illustrate the L2?

  • @OnlyLoveCanLimitUs
    @OnlyLoveCanLimitUs 5 місяців тому

    Just started! Compression???

  • @GaganDeepSinghMusic
    @GaganDeepSinghMusic 5 місяців тому

    thanks for sharing.

  • @DruDilly
    @DruDilly 5 місяців тому +8

    Dude, keep doing what you’re doing. These videos are super dope.

  • @SuperAgentAB
    @SuperAgentAB 5 місяців тому

    Thankfully, Dolby step up and create their own loudness spec for Music which is -18 LUFS and you can't exceed their spec or your mixes would get rejected.

    • @JoshWiniberg
      @JoshWiniberg 4 місяці тому

      Really? I can't find info on that anywhere, can you share? I'm all for less loud mixes and it would be great if things did move in that direction.

    • @SuperAgentAB
      @SuperAgentAB 4 місяці тому +1

      @@JoshWiniberg There's an question that provided in Dolby website.
      "Is there a loudness target for music mixed in Dolby Atmos?
      Yes.
      - The integrated Dolby Atmos loudness measurement should be -18 LKFS or less.
      - The True peak level should be -1 dBTP or less for the Dolby Atmos loudness measurement."

    • @JoshWiniberg
      @JoshWiniberg 4 місяці тому +1

      Thanks!

  • @UrbanLikwid
    @UrbanLikwid 4 місяці тому

    Every dance record has the L2 or something to the same effect on the Master. It is what it is (-7RMS the standard).

  • @millerman7799
    @millerman7799 4 місяці тому

    I love how you can take an old waveform like Blue Oyster Cult's Fear The Reaper, and it has beautiful dynamics, but then you take most modern hip hop, and it's just a burned bockwurst :P

  • @b.hornetiii.6771
    @b.hornetiii.6771 4 місяці тому +1

    Use the smallest amount of tools and make sure they are top notch quality. And use them for years so you know them good. Then you'll get that magic top notch sound. I see guys using a ton of stuff just puting it on the mix in the mix all over, throwing things left and right, knowing a little or nothing about plugin or hardware. You'll get a mess out of it every time.

  • @akg414
    @akg414 5 місяців тому +1

    When i hear heavy ccompressed-limited records, i usually hve no problem, but when i do it, and i have the oportunity to a-b the sound, i usually hate it, to me it sucks out the life of it. That been said, i hate that snobby position where they want to tell you how much compression or limiting is good or acceptable. Its just a matter of taste and aesthetics, you can't pretend to endorse some kind of purism, or better undesrstanding, for what it is merely a sound profile choice. If customer is happy, engineer is happy, listeners as happy, the wtf is wrong about that? I think some times us audio engineers get over our heads trying to point out do's and dont's in verey subjective terrains.