When I was a flight instructor back in the day, one maneuver we taught was called "pivotal altitude turns" or "pylon turns", or "eights on pylons". You flew a constant angle-of-bank turn, whilst keeping an object or ground position aligned with the wing. As groundspeed changed due to wind, you had to increase, or decrease altitude to compensate and keep the point in sight, and at the same spot down the wing. As groundspeed increases, pivotal altitude increases so a climb must be initiated, and vice versa. Here is a linken.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pivotal_altitude I'm of the opinion it was part of the practical test standards published by the FAA in order to have pilots trained in the skill in case of war. It certainly has other applications as well, such as aerial photography, but it has been a required skill for obtaining a license for a very long time. Thanks Cap! All the best to you sir!
Much simpler methods available: 1) TPOD shows angle to target: If the angle to target is 90 degrees, then orbit is very stable. If the angle is less than 90, the you are moving closer to target. If the angle is greater than 90 then you are moving away from target. The TPOD limits are 0 degrees to 180 so it is very easy to establish and maintain an orbit once targeted.
TPOD shows distance on the HUD, so orbits can can easily be adjusted. Additionally, the SA page shows engagement ranges, so your orbit can stay out of trouble. Especially if there are overlapping SAM engagement areas creating a non-circular avoidance path.@@dicejones3654
In the aviation world, we sometimes need to fly a DME Arc on an instrument approach to align us with an inbound radial or an ILS for example. The way we do this with “mental maths” is to fly inbound to the beacon (target) and then add 1% of your airspeed to the distance you want to remain to the target and make a 90 degree turn at that point and that should put you on the arc. So if you are flying at 300 Kts indicated and you want to fly a 10 mile arc, you start a 90 degree turn at 10+3= 13 miles from the target. You then fly around the arc by varying your bank angle according to the distance you are from the target (beacon). So of the distance goes up to say 10.3, you increase the bank, if it goes down to 9.7, you reduce the bank. The bank angle to use as ball park as you do this is 10% of your airspeed +7 (I think) so at 300 Kts the ballpark bank angle would be 37 degrees. You now make bank angle adjustments to counter the affects of the wind. So in essence, running in to the target, for a 10 mile left hand orbit, at 300 Kts, turn left 90 degrees at 13 miles from the target, when you have completed the turn you should be close to the 10 mile arc. Using 37 degrees of bank as your ballpark, vary the bank angle to maintain 10 mile range.
Pretty cool. However it assumes zero wind aloft. Look up turns about a point. Turns about a point is a maneuver you will perform on a check ride to get your private pilots license (U.S.)
Yeah, OK, good theory. Now in practice, how can I adapt this to fly the marshall stack? The diameter of the stack is 5 nm so r=3.5 nm, great? However, r is not centered on the carrier to which we are using Tacan to measure to/from. Don't get me started on wind. I really struggle trying to fly an accurate marshall pattern. How about a video on how to enter the stack and stay in the stack with any degree of accuracy.
Just a heads up: There is a math error in the calculation for the roll angle. When solving for angle Beta (roll angle), the work page shows (r*g)/(v^2)=tan(beta), when in reality, this should be (r*g)/(v^2)=1/(tan(beta)). In the end, calculation ends up with the roll angle = arctan((r*g)/(v^2)), when it should be roll angle = arctan((v^2)/(r*g)). In the demo, they got a little lucky because the proper angle to maintain orbit was 41.75 degrees, and the incorrect equation gave an angle 7 degrees off, which was close enough for that range and speed.
an important addition to this video could have been: how to correct once you notice drift in the center of your orbit from the target in a certain direction. its gna be essential esp if there is any wind at all. also in case you wish to emulate this by hand and get way off as soon as you take your eye off the ball and wish to recenter without having too fly off to +3R and back again XD Basically: how to coax your circle in a given direction?
oh Cap.. you are the best. I love watching you do on the fly trigonometry and calculating Mach numbers in your head. lmao.. I don't even remember how to do long division...
Nice mathematical skills Bro. I wish There was a mapping formula for this x56. to map all my aircraft controls at once. I've had the game for two days now. I've spent 5 minutes flying, and the rest of the time watching your tutorials and mapping this X56.. LOL.. Another great video.
Shouldn't you use GS to calculate the bank angle instead of calibrated airspeed? Because from what I understand KCAS changes with altitude, which would mean you would have to fly different bank angles for the same orbit at different altitudes.
The question then becomes: "Does the 'grip' of a particular bank angle change with altitude, such that the same angle produces more or less turn?" ..and is that "automatically" (intrinsically) compensated for if you're using the KCAS velocity reading? ..lovely,.. yet another experiment! Aloha guys! :) 🤙
Can confirm I used GS as an assumption in the original working out, if you go about this in a different way you might get a different result, good luck!
@@zachtait5363 yes i made my own spreadsheet using GS and it seems to work, i think since you have the range only to 1/10 of a mile on your HUD and your bank angle will never be exactly spot on it doesn't make a real difference whether you use GS or KCAS
@@adhdrenalin4392 One of the earlier tests we did that day got to within about .1 of a mile, however you're totally right when you say that! Plus as a military pilot you are a little more fussed about the munition delivery at this stage than getting a perfectly mathematical orbit...
I think there may be an error with the formula. Intuitively... As speed increases so should the bank angle. However, this formula is decreasing bank angle with increased speed. I think the numerator and denominator need to be switched. Should the formula read =(ATAN(((C4*0.51444)^2)/((C5*1852)*9.8))*180/PI()) ?
Plenty call engineers nerds, Dw it’s totally true. Also, doesn’t matter if it’s a sim or a game, if you’re using the game setting probs shouldn’t have pilot in your name though....
Zach Tait I’m an actual pilot kid lmao, I don’t plat DCS and waste my time, although I would if I had a decent pc, I preferred to study and do it in real life 😂😂
Couldn't one do a orbit in the same style as a DME orbit? Keep the target at a constant distance by keeping it at your 9 or 3 oclock. Then you can input altitude to find slant angle.
Autopilots HATE him!! He keeps perfect orbits and does it all with SKILL! Cap exposes his SHOCKING secrets so you can learn this one SIMPLE trick to impress all your buddy-lasing A-10s friends!
and here was me thinking this was a Wagner moment as u punch a MiG29 up to 35,786,000 metres 🥴🤣🤣🤣🤣 this makes much more sense, now go and do it with an AC130 in ARMA 😳😃
When I was a flight instructor back in the day, one maneuver we taught was called "pivotal altitude turns" or "pylon turns", or "eights on pylons". You flew a constant angle-of-bank turn, whilst keeping an object or ground position aligned with the wing. As groundspeed changed due to wind, you had to increase, or decrease altitude to compensate and keep the point in sight, and at the same spot down the wing. As groundspeed increases, pivotal altitude increases so a climb must be initiated, and vice versa. Here is a linken.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pivotal_altitude
I'm of the opinion it was part of the practical test standards published by the FAA in order to have pilots trained in the skill in case of war. It certainly has other applications as well, such as aerial photography, but it has been a required skill for obtaining a license for a very long time. Thanks Cap! All the best to you sir!
Much simpler methods available:
1) TPOD shows angle to target: If the angle to target is 90 degrees, then orbit is very stable.
If the angle is less than 90, the you are moving closer to target. If the angle is greater than 90 then you are moving away from target.
The TPOD limits are 0 degrees to 180 so it is very easy to establish and maintain an orbit once targeted.
Kenneth Nickerson yeah but doesn’t ensure the radius stays the same
TPOD shows distance on the HUD, so orbits can can easily be adjusted.
Additionally, the SA page shows engagement ranges, so your orbit can stay out of trouble. Especially if there are overlapping SAM engagement areas creating a non-circular avoidance path.@@dicejones3654
In the aviation world, we sometimes need to fly a DME Arc on an instrument approach to align us with an inbound radial or an ILS for example. The way we do this with “mental maths” is to fly inbound to the beacon (target) and then add 1% of your airspeed to the distance you want to remain to the target and make a 90 degree turn at that point and that should put you on the arc. So if you are flying at 300 Kts indicated and you want to fly a 10 mile arc, you start a 90 degree turn at 10+3= 13 miles from the target. You then fly around the arc by varying your bank angle according to the distance you are from the target (beacon). So of the distance goes up to say 10.3, you increase the bank, if it goes down to 9.7, you reduce the bank. The bank angle to use as ball park as you do this is 10% of your airspeed +7 (I think) so at 300 Kts the ballpark bank angle would be 37 degrees. You now make bank angle adjustments to counter the affects of the wind.
So in essence, running in to the target, for a 10 mile left hand orbit, at 300 Kts, turn left 90 degrees at 13 miles from the target, when you have completed the turn you should be close to the 10 mile arc. Using 37 degrees of bank as your ballpark, vary the bank angle to maintain 10 mile range.
Pretty cool. However it assumes zero wind aloft. Look up turns about a point. Turns about a point is a maneuver you will perform on a check ride to get your private pilots license (U.S.)
Don't forget about eights-on-pylons ;) Of course your pivotal altitude changes with groundspeed, but still.
Yup doesn't work with wind.
"I'm not learning math to play a video game"
Challenge: 2 aircraft. 1 flying inverted. touching gear through a vertical loop.
lols hmmmm...
Yeah, OK, good theory. Now in practice, how can I adapt this to fly the marshall stack? The diameter of the stack is 5 nm so r=3.5 nm, great? However, r is not centered on the carrier to which we are using Tacan to measure to/from. Don't get me started on wind. I really struggle trying to fly an accurate marshall pattern. How about a video on how to enter the stack and stay in the stack with any degree of accuracy.
As a physicist, I love it when physics works. Thanks. You made me smile.
pleasure
Just a heads up: There is a math error in the calculation for the roll angle. When solving for angle Beta (roll angle), the work page shows (r*g)/(v^2)=tan(beta), when in reality, this should be (r*g)/(v^2)=1/(tan(beta)). In the end, calculation ends up with the roll angle = arctan((r*g)/(v^2)), when it should be roll angle = arctan((v^2)/(r*g)). In the demo, they got a little lucky because the proper angle to maintain orbit was 41.75 degrees, and the incorrect equation gave an angle 7 degrees off, which was close enough for that range and speed.
Thanks.
[ =((ATAN(((C4*0.514444)^2/((C5*1852)*9.81)) ))*180)/PI() ]
Cap, you have mad talents. Keep up the good work.
Rumor is that the AAA guys are using the same spreadsheet to calculate when they have to fire at the orbiting aircrafts, saving tons of ammo 😎
lols
an important addition to this video could have been: how to correct once you notice drift in the center of your orbit from the target in a certain direction. its gna be essential esp if there is any wind at all. also in case you wish to emulate this by hand and get way off as soon as you take your eye off the ball and wish to recenter without having too fly off to +3R and back again XD Basically: how to coax your circle in a given direction?
You are some what correct, this assumes zero winds aloft. You would correct by varying the bank angle. Look up turns about a point.
Hello, in the file, it gives me REF at orbit angle, how could I modify it ?
oh Cap.. you are the best. I love watching you do on the fly trigonometry and calculating Mach numbers in your head. lmao.. I don't even remember how to do long division...
lols roger Sir
Nice mathematical skills Bro. I wish There was a mapping formula for this x56. to map all my aircraft controls at once. I've had the game for two days now. I've spent 5 minutes flying, and the rest of the time watching your tutorials and mapping this X56.. LOL.. Another great video.
Shouldn't you use GS to calculate the bank angle instead of calibrated airspeed? Because from what I understand KCAS changes with altitude, which would mean you would have to fly different bank angles for the same orbit at different altitudes.
The question then becomes: "Does the 'grip' of a particular bank angle change with altitude, such that the same angle produces more or less turn?" ..and is that "automatically" (intrinsically) compensated for if you're using the KCAS velocity reading?
..lovely,.. yet another experiment!
Aloha guys! :) 🤙
Can confirm I used GS as an assumption in the original working out, if you go about this in a different way you might get a different result, good luck!
@@zachtait5363 yes i made my own spreadsheet using GS and it seems to work, i think since you have the range only to 1/10 of a mile on your HUD and your bank angle will never be exactly spot on it doesn't make a real difference whether you use GS or KCAS
@@adhdrenalin4392 One of the earlier tests we did that day got to within about .1 of a mile, however you're totally right when you say that! Plus as a military pilot you are a little more fussed about the munition delivery at this stage than getting a perfectly mathematical orbit...
Excellent Chaps.
I think there may be an error with the formula. Intuitively... As speed increases so should the bank angle. However, this formula is decreasing bank angle with increased speed. I think the numerator and denominator need to be switched. Should the formula read =(ATAN(((C4*0.51444)^2)/((C5*1852)*9.8))*180/PI()) ?
Also as you increase the radius the bank angle should decrease. Right? I'm seeing the opposite affect.
Amaaaazing! Love it! Thank you will do this tomorow all day ♡
Good AC-130 shooting practice.
1:04 lol if anyone ever calls you nerd show them this guy doing geometry in a game
DCS is not a game 😡
andrea montanari it is, lol
@@windshearahead7012 Then you aren't taking it serious enough.😉
Plenty call engineers nerds, Dw it’s totally true. Also, doesn’t matter if it’s a sim or a game, if you’re using the game setting probs shouldn’t have pilot in your name though....
Zach Tait I’m an actual pilot kid lmao, I don’t plat DCS and waste my time, although I would if I had a decent pc, I preferred to study and do it in real life 😂😂
I just put my target at 90 degrees on the hud and make sure while maintaining my turn that the target stays between 89 and 91 degrees...
step 1 tune tacan
step 2 fly directly at tacan
step 3 turn 90 degrees
step 4 if dme goes up turn in if dme goes down turn out or reduce your bank
rgr
Grim Reapers this is how you fly a dme arc approach irl
I got hit by a dude in a bar one night and did 2 perfect orbits before i hit the ground once:)
One of the most useful damn things I've ever saw about DCS. Wish I could leave 1k likes. Thank you, guys!
lols thx
Good video please l want all programs that help start dcs world its good
Video idea : can u fly the A-10 with no wings, land it if so why ?
Why would you be able to do that?
No idea apparently it can some how
Yup that vid is coming out in next few days
hey Cap you should check out the movie "SHER DIL" they have a nice Dogfight Mirage 2000 v JF-17 scene
Yup I have a vid on the Sher Dil dogfights coming out in a few days.
You should organize a competition, no autopilot...
Couldn't one do a orbit in the same style as a DME orbit? Keep the target at a constant distance by keeping it at your 9 or 3 oclock. Then you can input altitude to find slant angle.
Autopilots HATE him!! He keeps perfect orbits and does it all with SKILL! Cap exposes his SHOCKING secrets so you can learn this one SIMPLE trick to impress all your buddy-lasing A-10s friends!
AND impress the chicks...
+Grim Reapers can cap be my math teacher?
have a challenge where you have to land only with trim
that would be horrible...
Thnx
and here was me thinking this was a Wagner moment as u punch a MiG29 up to 35,786,000 metres 🥴🤣🤣🤣🤣 this makes much more sense, now go and do it with an AC130 in ARMA 😳😃
i love these videos, but this is not 'geometric' geometry here, it's all euclidean, :D
maff is hard.
Tis’ indeed, took me all of 3 and a half minutes that eqn