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David why your is video becoming short day by day especially with otw please make video with otw at least 1 hour with that more concept will covered in one video please🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
ithium batteries can explode rather than simply burn when certain conditions cause rapid and uncontrolled reactions within the battery, leading to a pressure buildup. Here are the key conditions that may cause an explosion: 1. Overcharging: Explanation: Overcharging occurs when a lithium battery is charged beyond its voltage limit. Most lithium-ion batteries operate safely within a 4.2V per cell limit, but overcharging can lead to: Lithium plating: Formation of lithium metal on the anode. Thermal runaway: Excess heat generated can cause the electrolyte to vaporize, leading to an explosion. Outcome: This heat can rupture the cell's casing, resulting in a release of flammable gases that ignite or explode under pressure. so this method would most like be caused by discharging the one battery into the other and overstacking charge very fast.
Could you please assist me? I need to learn Linux, but all my devices are running Windows. I have a laptop, but there's no space left for a dual boot. I would like to use my SD card as a hard drive for dual booting, but I'm unsure how to go about it. Any help would be greatly appreciated! 😢
I learned that the tech sector in Israel is more than $50 billion. After this operation will people stop buying electronic devices from Israel? Is the sector going to grow in the next 5 years or is it going to shrink and people will be buying devices from China and other countries that are not allies of Israel?
Batteries dont explode, they combust or burn. The pagers were delivered with explosives in them. I have experience with military explosives, I was a muntions systems tech in the US Air Force.
Yeah it seems uninformed to me that we are discussing hacking in the context of this event. Even if a signal was used to initiate an explosion, it was probably built to receive that signal and act as the pagers did, so it isn't exactly hacking
To make a Li battery explode, you need to be able to short the battery or you need to overcharge it very quickly. That requires physical access to the charging circuits of the battery. Im much more likely to lean to explosives being placed in comm devices that Hezzbolah were known to use.
Add to it that pagers are pretty simple devices so all you need is to send a paging pattern to that pager. Lets say that you get 4 pagings within a minute and then your modified battery recognizes it and goes off. No need to go deep into your pager. For phones and cars there's more value in using them to track your whereabouts and sift out your data to know when and where you are going to be and strike there - or throw in a coordinated strike towards all your contacts at the same time. Inserting false information can also be very effective. On a pager you can insert false info too, but it's not always that effective.
Ex drone pilot here. Lithium (lipo) batteries on their own aren't explosive but they do catch fire extremely quickly. I've had them go off due to punctures, excessively rapid discharging and shorts. No explosions, just very nasty fires. It might be plausible to hide explosives inside cells - either between cells in a multi cell pack or by wrapping them between the layers of a cell during manufacturing. All batteries come sealed or shrink wrapped so altered ones would be nearly impossible to notice. You'd still need explosives to make anything go BOOM though.
I have had similar working on phones and laptops, so I tend to agree. Interesting thought on sneaking explosives into a cell though. I wonder how hard it would be to develop a 18650 with a significant amount of C4 that still acts like a normal 18650 until remotely triggered? I would think the electronics needed would rule that out?
He doesn't seem to understand the potential energy of lithium, nor it's requirements for explosive power (essentially sealing it in an oxygen-rich environment, I presume... Pre-ignition).😅
Yeah, agree with this. Flew RC helis and planes for several years, with LiPos. They burn but don't explode. Only way you'd get an explosion is to enclose the batteries making them a low-explosive. For pagers or phones to explode they'd need to be fitted with high-explosives.
@w花b High explosives would. They cause a shock wave without the need for an enclosure. Low explosives require an enclosure to build sufficient energy before releasing it in a shorter time, thereby creating a shock wave. Fundamental differences between low and high explosives is the rate of burn.
The pager attack is not a cyber attack. It was a supply chain attack. It does not matter if your car is safe from cyber attack because they can't blow the battery. The fact is you do not know if your car has had a explosive charge "manufactured" into it which then can be triggered remotely with an internet connection.
yes you can blow a lLION battery,but not an explosion but you can make it burn or cause a fire,All it takes is to overcharge it via hack, if you control the rate of charge and the battery firmware does not put it in trickle charge you will have a bad day, this i know cause i work with this shit
@@absiddique139 None of them was blown up by cyber attack. Vast majority of those cases were cases of battery melt down or combustion, and in extremely rare cases of explosion, victim had minor burns and scratches, nothing nowhere near of explosion which would end grown man's life.
@matt_milack You clearly didn't comprehend what was said in the video... He is saying that a battery attack could happen, whether this was a battery hack, or supply chain tampering. His point is, in the future, that's going to be a major concern...
@@LifesAScript You clearly didn't comprehend what was said in my comment. I'm not saying that battery attack could not happen, I'm saying that without previously charging pager/phone/car with the explosive, with you battery attack you can melt down battery or make battery burn, and you, most definitely, can't produce an explosion which could kill grown up man.
The pagers don't even have Li batteries, either way Li batteries burn they don't explode. It was 100% explosives, how the explosive was triggered is the question. Scooters exploding are from sealed compartments and the gas from the battery expanding.
The latest model of the pagers had the option of a lithium battery and USB-C charging though I've not seen verified which actual variant of the Apollo pager model was used. Regardless physically untampered with lithium batteries don't explode, it is difficult to damage them in a way which would produce a reliable outcome as seems to have happened and I find the suggestion they were doped unlikely as well as the heat from abusing the batteries via malfunctioning charge controller or software induced over current is far short of that needed to detonate the kind of explosives talked about (even ignoring other factors). Much more likely the firmware for the microcontroller was tampered with to set an output pin high on receiving a specific message which then triggered some kind of detonator for explosives concealed inside in some way such as a partially fake battery. One thing I did note is that the screen on the pagers seemed to turn off prematurely just before detonation which might be consistent with some clever way of using the battery as part of the explosive via altered chemistry, etc. but seems a more complicated way to go about it.
If you search "gold apollo rugged pager ar924" on UA-cam, you should be able to see what the pager was like. There is even a video showing how to program them.
@@jmr Try looking for a video with ar924 rugged gold apollo in the title. The manufacturer didn't remove their youtube channel yet, but their website has closed down.
@@threeMetreJim I've seen the video but they say they didn't make the pagers that blew up. I believe they said they licenced multiple third parties to manufacture them. So it's their pager made in someone else's factory.
this video is great love the channel and OTW. but maybe best to take it down and re-upload, look at timestamp 27:57, did we just expose the face of OTW?
Did an AI analysis based on media coverage. This was the result: Supply Chain Infiltration: Team swapped pagers mid-delivery, embedding energy-heavy explosives disguised as glue (or swapped batteries) Cap Code Manipulation: Cloned pager cap codes to ensure compromised devices functioned normally until detonation. Remote Detonation: Devices were triggered via a hidden command, causing coordinated explosions across multiple areas. Undetected Insertion: Advanced tools (MSP, EEPROM) used to tamper with pager components, bypassing standard checks. Not validated fact, so correct "me" if I'm wrong.
A lithium battery can "explode" but it cannot detonate. Those pagers detonated. The difference is not only the speed of the reaction, but the mechanical aspects of the event. Some lithium cells can act as pressure vessels. When those explode, it's a release of compressed gasses, AKA a sudden decompression. When a flammable liquid is pressurised and explodes due to excess heat, that's known as a BLEVE (blevvy) When a flammable/explosive substance is activated and it explodes but does not detonate due to whatever factor, this is a deflagration. All of those are explosions, but none of them are detonations. A detonation is an event in which conditions were such that the explosive reaction happened instantly and completely, creating a destructive shockwave through the material and outwards from it. The shockwave is the destructive factor, not the heat or the release of compressed gas. There were no flames. There were no canisters of excess hydrogen popping off. Those pagers detonated, and no battery can do that.
I fail to see how solar panels can be made to explode since they do not store the generated energy. Solar panel are designed and test to withstand a short circuit. If there is a battery system attached to the installation then that could be the point of attack and not the panels.
Never seen a battery explode unless they are fractured. Not sure how a firm ware can detonate a battery. Maybe overcharge and they burn but they could not set off all 2800 at the same time it would be random as not all would be charged at the same time.
I have no idea how this attack work but I always have a great time listening to both of you I mean OTW is flawless man with David connected it's a wonderful discussion as always ❤
Batteries aren´t a reliable detonator in this case simply because of varying charge. At a given point of time not all batteries´re charged to the same degree thus what makes one battery explode might make another just fizzle and burn. I stick with the boom-stuff camp on this one. For a single target that´s of course something entirely different... concearning.
That might be due to the exact frequency the battery was exposed to. There are all kinds of substances that have specific reactions to very specific frequencies.
Battery enthusiast here, while yes you could hack your way to a battery management system. Which is required in many cases where you would be storing enough energy to cause trouble. Many have Bluetooth some have wifi but no matter what there are just physical hardware issues (like parts melting). Not to mention you usually for redundant systems use a Xs1p configuration for high amp hour cells on each bms, so just the amount of individual attacks is huge, and if they are using a car pack form where they use a bunch of tiny cells most of those use fused connections on each cell so the battery would take itself offline via hardware.
Here’s my take, and this is where red team operators from "third world countries" stand out… there’s a certain lack of ruthlessness in your strategies :) Attacks like these aren't just about technique-they’re at war, and the objective is to kill people (or maybe something else, which I'll mention soon). Pagers and handheld radios (unlike cell phones) aren’t in close contact with lethal parts of the body, like the head or vital organs. They’re usually kept in a vest or on the side of the waist, where the damage wouldn’t be severe. But think about this: only 8 deaths from 3,000 explosions? That seems more like collateral damage than a successful operation. What if the real goal was to injure people in order to implant chemical markers or radioisotopes (some radioactive isotope or chemical/biological marker)? Afterward, all it would take is a drone equipped with sensors to detect the chemical signature, and you’d have a "GPS" tracking system that could last a while, depending on the radioactive decay of the marker (obviously). This way, 3,000 individuals, along with their network of influence, could be monitored. It doesn't make sense to launch an attack of this scale just to scare the enemy-that’s not Mossad’s modus operandi (look at Stuxnet). If I had to guess, I’d say before the isotope’s half-life is up, all 3,000 will be dead. :)
Yes or like smart water in cash secure boxes then every one that owned one that went off would be painted with a terrorist marker that can't be washed off and shows up under UV
Likely supply chain attack, BMS exist, ive been in configuration of those, you cant really change much to make it explode, the only thing you could do is make it allow the battery to be overcharged by setting the voltage limit, and those BMS settings usually arent configurable online, typically done through rs485 or 232, maybe theres some that can be configured online idk, at the same time the amount of energy in the pager battery isnt enough to make a huge explosion
Battery attack would entail shorting out the battery or batteries. So, you would have to figure out, where you could short, given an application. Solar panels - no batteries directly, so again, you would have to short out the panels. That sounds like a challenge since circuits are not designed that way.
1) your cell phone location is within less than 50ft. 2)There is no room for any explosives in any modern cell phone. 3) batterys catch fire from corrosion not state sponsored malware 4) this is just paranoia
The batteries DID NOT EXPLODE. I have heard of 2 models of Apollo pagers being used. Neither of them use a Li cell and those videos do not show thermal runaway. They show an explosion. They are not rechargeable pagers. The detonation circuit was likely connected to the pager discriminator tap. The alleged hacking of batteries has been spread by "journalists" that don't know what they are talking about and lie for clicks. A similar circuit could be used on the radios, perhaps a CTCSS/DCS "trigger" could be used. There's a lot of potential options. Most devices do not possess the capacity to reprogram the battery controller. That kind of thing usually requires a direct connection to the battery controller and no, there's not a web server for it. They are extremely simple circuits. No manufacturer wants to give users the power to destroy their device by changing a number and potentially causing a fire, injury or death. I want my 30 minutes back. This video offered nothing new and was little more than "what if it was the battery?". It was not the battery and couldn't have been, they don't possess enough energy to do that.
Lithium batteries don’t explode, the most that can happen that they will burn . The explosion in the pager attack was probably because an intentional explosive was involved
from what i gather when batteries 'explode' they egnite like a flare rather than an actual explosion. still verry dangerous if its in your pocket/hand. most modern devices have protection chips build directly into the battery in a way that the device cannot access/modify. still if there are methods to ignite the battery in devices there might be a demand for people to install something like this on their own phone to either hit back if a phone is ever stolen or for criminals to destroy evidence.
I’ve worked with automotive companies testing vehicle batteries for 10 years. They don’t go bang. You get a few minutes warning while they get hot expand the gas inside the cell then they burst like sausages in the oven. My bet is on planted explosives, maybe detonated by the second battery.
The ups hack wouldnt work in real life as packs have mechanical thermal fuses, so if the cell groups get too hot it blows the fuse and kills the pack off. The same with EVS etc too. Most packs have mechanical protection as well as electronic.
I suspect with regards to the radios at the very least they’ve managed to gain root access through to a Linux kernel. The Icom IC-V82 radios have a UT-118 optional data expansion board. If they managed to alter the circuit and introduce an explosive, then, all they need to do is to gain access through to the master node software (which I’d assume was installed onto a Linux distro somewhere in a data centre) used to tie all the radios together and they’d have access through to an entire network of interconnected radios. Then, they can interact with all of the master radios at once… maybe also gaining access to the OTA firmware update system too Icom radios in effect can be configured a little like the Tetra secure radio system, only, they’re very much user driven/open source. I would imagine that the pagers work in a similar way. Thing is, if someone now has Linux rooted access capabilities as a result of some sort of zero day, that’s by far wider reaching than a simple device hack!
Ya...C4...thru an international Aeroport! Hmmmm....they have dogs with excellent smell and training for specific substances... but then there are other electronic devices that'll pick up vapor, etc. Unless they "TIGHTLY ", embedded C4 or something similar within A battery pack or an I.C.. I'll lean on a Lithium cell theory that is tightly bounded together or a better way of putting it; place a firecracker on the "open" palm of your hand and light it -figuratively speaking! Now, clench the firecracker in the grip of your hand....which of the 2 will do more damage!?😮 Remember, someone designed these products to have 2 major purposes!
Lebanese here. I can tell you with upmost confidence why it wasn't detected through shipping, it's simple: The HB group (can't say the name in the comment) imports most of its stuff illegally into the country through the port. The goods they bring in don't go through the standard procedures (filing papers to report what came in, paying import taxes, getting them through security scanners to check on them...), which is why it didn't get detected when a simple scanner could have easily identified the explosives
If the explosives were encapsulated in a clean room they would not transfer the volatile compounds to the case where stiffness and swabs would detect them.
This might be silly but.... We should put little gravity generators on our phones. Release a little weight which turns gears which creates powers, the more gears, the less the weight needs to be lowered. It's free energy. If they can power a light 💡 they should be able to be made to power a phone. It would obviously be an ugly attachment for the seriously paranoid.
Modern lithium batteries have BMS installed inside them , they cannot be overcharged . Firmware of phone does not operate or contact or change batteries kindly update you information.
This is possible by sending malware to a comm device that may cause its power calculation hacked and can cause a short circuit within it, but by default there are some protections already placed in device to protect the batteries like temperature sensors (analog) and fuses to protect from the short circuit and overcharging/ overcharging ,so i think its not possible to target anyone remotely just by sending such malware, unless you open that specific device and place some extra circuit to bypass the default one, that could be micro in size, or modify the default circuit to work it with the malware
What if the explosives are built into the batteries? You then only need to deliver the batteries and only in devices that send a certain sequence of short circuits to the battery, for example, will it explode.
Probably be more concerned about someone remotely taking over an electric car rather than the vehicle actually exploding. Our wireless networks are essentially imprisoning us if you ask me though. We're surrounding ourselves with devices that invade everyone's privacy.
You'd need a thick piece of copper between the positive and negative to make the battery explode without fusing the short. It's still unclear if that would actually explode.
Remember when they used to avoid your devices due to the moisture tag 100 humidity whether you're in a boiler room or above ground in a rainstorm humidity is humidity that's a lot of missing servers
It was in 2012 or 13, my brother and I burnt an almost damaged mobile phone using a kerosene, it had a lithium ion battery, it burnt slowly and densely but did not explode, also last year an EV burnt near our town but did not explode. So my take is a mere cyber attack will never explode anything provided the fact that theres no magic to make things explode 😂.
Then why not just disable the ability to access a battery by any form of software and just make it a hardware thing only. This doesn’t seem like something that cannot be fixed by manufacturers by changing battery configurations moving forwards. Don’t allow any access to battery at all unless through hardware. If that means just making a display in the back of a device with a power display monitor that’s not connected to any software then seems like the problem is thus made obsolete. It makes the user experience more difficult but don’t allow any input to a battery just an output monitor maybe also could be a fix. No way to adjust battery performance or anything. Just trying to think outside the box here.
what happens when your put a li-po in a microwave?, couldn't you fire a DEW at it and overcharge it and make the explosive stored potential energy quite large enough to cause a bigger bang and also be the catalyst for detonation once its overcharged. turning it into E-c4 this is hypothetical but id like to see some tests done
Having watched alot of the videos of the devices activating, both censored and not, there is a near-zero chance that these were just batteries going off. Most likely a high explosive charge in the 3-5 gram range. My theory is they spent time preparing by making dummy batteries that had the charge contained along with a small receiver/detonator to trigger it, all in the form factor of a battery, along with an identical battery that is double voltage to make the device work as though it had both batteries in it. Then the only alteration to the devices required is pulling out included batteries and replacing them with one dummy-charge battery and one double-voltage battery (even the terminal connections can be considered on the dummy batteries without need to alter the device further) so just a quick "battery swap" and then when all the devices were delivered and ready, send out a signal the is picked up by the small receiver in the dummy charge battery and bam.. In my mind, based on what I have seen so far, that is the most likely explanation. That said, hacking modern vehicles is a problem already and it is going to become a huge issue very soon and become extremely dangerous. And hacking EVs to cause huge, difficult to extinguish, electrical fires, is a very possible attack vector that manufacturers need to consider. And legislators need to back off this regulation to force EV and self-driving production bullshit that is just creating more problems, more waste, way more cost, etc..
11:35 Not triangulating! For hackers you should be a bit more precise. Stop repeating buzzwords without understanding! Cell phone towers can be triangulated, but they are not. Because triangulating - using three angles to determine a location from three known locations requires a direction determining antenna, which is not as easy to build as determining a relative signal strength. That can be done on basically any radio device without much expense. Trilateration is what you mean, or is what was meant somewhere on your infos sourcechain. Knowing three distances for example by relative signal strength. Wuala, easy location found.
Thank you, language (especially surrounding precise, technical matters) is much more important than many people realize. I am not trained in what you wrote about, but am intrigued and will read up on this.
This playlist has the CCNA v1.1 content that I'm creating. I've added a video splitting the beginner content and more advanced CCNA content. However, you need to know all that content for the exam. Playlist: ua-cam.com/video/tj3yCZWOWYc/v-deo.html
Try using a Polaroid camera pack open it up to where the contacts for the battery that drives the camera motors notice there's no batteries in the camera try shorten up that battery and see if it will explode
There is a little bit of bs here. Yes lithium batteries can burn. They burn hot and fast this can cause the stuff that surround to burn violently as well. They don't explode.
They explain under certain circumstances that they can in the video and even show clips of it happening. If you tightly seal something that burns hot and fast (mainly fast) then there's no place for that energy to go and it will cause an explosion.
Another angle we can take with this discussion is just listen to the guest speaker and his constant repetition of even though it's unlikely it would be very concerning if the batteries could explode upon some command or some app or whatever, in other words someone figures out a way to make the batteries explode. Imagine this notion getting out there into the real world and causing so much panic that politicians decide that everyone must have their phone scanned once a month at their local police department or anytime they're pulled over in traffic they must have their phone scanned for possible viruses. Do you control the population with a a human virus or do you control the population to where they live, in their information on their devices? Which is the more dangerous virus, or which in fact is the more dangerous notion of a potential virus living among our devices? Hey it's just science fiction.
Hey David, have you considered bringing Ryan Montgomery to your audience? It would be fantastic if you could feature him in one of your videos to discuss ethical hacking. Thank you for your hard work!
It's more easier to trigger a "fork b0m b" to create and endless loop to heat up the lithium battery then setting explosives in the supply chain that it is much harder to achieve. I do not think a pager os have any fork loop security
Two things must be true for this to work. The voltage regulator must be programmable. The device must be online, or have been intercepted physically (supply chain) to inject code or the C4. The larger worry about LiOn batteries is sloppy manufacturing. That is a much larger risk. The solution is that battery regulation needs to be air gapped from the rest of the device.
Explosives were added more likely. Someone dont know what they are talking about. How can you rise voltage of anything without a transformer? Also, lithium batteries can overheat and burn but they dont explode. Assuming the battery was hacked, the impact would be that a slow increase in temperature. You will also need to have the battery packed as a bomb to explode. They inserted some small explosives probably with pieces of metals. This is a technical acceptable explanation from engineering point of view.
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00:00 - Intro
01:20 - CrowdSec sponsored segment
02:46 - Exploding pagers in Lebanon
03:29 - Real-world vs Mr. Robot hacks
07:02 - What are pagers?
07:53 - Israeli hackers // Unit 8200
09:34 - Phones vs pagers
12:43 - How the pagers exploded
15:58 - How lithium batteries can explode
17:37 - The dangers of lithium batteries
19:10 - How IOT devices can be vulnerable
23:09 - Fact checking news and information / Beware of misinformation
25:24 - Plausible theory: supply chain attack
27:44 - The dangers of living in a digital world
30:17 - Conclusion / Special discount
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David why your is video becoming short day by day especially with otw please make video with otw at least 1 hour with that more concept will covered in one video please🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
ithium batteries can explode rather than simply burn when certain conditions cause rapid and uncontrolled reactions within the battery, leading to a pressure buildup. Here are the key conditions that may cause an explosion:
1. Overcharging:
Explanation: Overcharging occurs when a lithium battery is charged beyond its voltage limit. Most lithium-ion batteries operate safely within a 4.2V per cell limit, but overcharging can lead to:
Lithium plating: Formation of lithium metal on the anode.
Thermal runaway: Excess heat generated can cause the electrolyte to vaporize, leading to an explosion.
Outcome: This heat can rupture the cell's casing, resulting in a release of flammable gases that ignite or explode under pressure.
so this method would most like be caused by discharging the one battery into the other and overstacking charge very fast.
Could you please assist me? I need to learn Linux, but all my devices are running Windows. I have a laptop, but there's no space left for a dual boot. I would like to use my SD card as a hard drive for dual booting, but I'm unsure how to go about it. Any help would be greatly appreciated! 😢
I learned that the tech sector in Israel is more than $50 billion. After this operation will people stop buying electronic devices from Israel?
Is the sector going to grow in the next 5 years or is it going to shrink and people will be buying devices from China and other countries that are not allies of Israel?
27:59 Have you exposed OTWs face to the world ?????
Batteries dont explode, they combust or burn. The pagers were delivered with explosives in them.
I have experience with military explosives, I was a muntions systems tech in the US Air Force.
Yeah it seems uninformed to me that we are discussing hacking in the context of this event. Even if a signal was used to initiate an explosion, it was probably built to receive that signal and act as the pagers did, so it isn't exactly hacking
Fake News MAGA!!! LOLOL Youre probably right though
@@Mbro-dq2do %
Batteries do explode. A few men have been killed by exploding phones, 2 when they held them by their heads, and 1 who had his phone in his pocket.
it wouldnt surpise me id Unit 8200 figured out how to make them explode in the end. Clearly Israel has Arabs working on the inside for them
To make a Li battery explode, you need to be able to short the battery or you need to overcharge it very quickly. That requires physical access to the charging circuits of the battery. Im much more likely to lean to explosives being placed in comm devices that Hezzbolah were known to use.
Add to it that pagers are pretty simple devices so all you need is to send a paging pattern to that pager.
Lets say that you get 4 pagings within a minute and then your modified battery recognizes it and goes off. No need to go deep into your pager.
For phones and cars there's more value in using them to track your whereabouts and sift out your data to know when and where you are going to be and strike there - or throw in a coordinated strike towards all your contacts at the same time. Inserting false information can also be very effective. On a pager you can insert false info too, but it's not always that effective.
Also think the BMS will have some extra safety built in.
Are you opening every battery on every phone you have or had? I don't think so. Never know what is actually inside, really...
Or add an explosive since they burn and don't explode.
There were explosives plated in these
Ex drone pilot here. Lithium (lipo) batteries on their own aren't explosive but they do catch fire extremely quickly. I've had them go off due to punctures, excessively rapid discharging and shorts. No explosions, just very nasty fires. It might be plausible to hide explosives inside cells - either between cells in a multi cell pack or by wrapping them between the layers of a cell during manufacturing. All batteries come sealed or shrink wrapped so altered ones would be nearly impossible to notice. You'd still need explosives to make anything go BOOM though.
I have had similar working on phones and laptops, so I tend to agree. Interesting thought on sneaking explosives into a cell though. I wonder how hard it would be to develop a 18650 with a significant amount of C4 that still acts like a normal 18650 until remotely triggered? I would think the electronics needed would rule that out?
He doesn't seem to understand the potential energy of lithium, nor it's requirements for explosive power (essentially sealing it in an oxygen-rich environment, I presume... Pre-ignition).😅
Yeah, agree with this. Flew RC helis and planes for several years, with LiPos. They burn but don't explode. Only way you'd get an explosion is to enclose the batteries making them a low-explosive. For pagers or phones to explode they'd need to be fitted with high-explosives.
@@alphaomega5721 I don't think that even with that they could do the damage it did if you look at those videos. But maybe I'm wrong
@w花b High explosives would. They cause a shock wave without the need for an enclosure. Low explosives require an enclosure to build sufficient energy before releasing it in a shorter time, thereby creating a shock wave. Fundamental differences between low and high explosives is the rate of burn.
"Abc news is pretty reliable". I'll take things we publicly learned weren't accurate in the 1970s for $300 Alex.
Old head mentality that was born in the TV era. Can't blame him.
Well, they try to be, but can be easily fooled nowadays with AI magic. lol
The pager attack is not a cyber attack. It was a supply chain attack. It does not matter if your car is safe from cyber attack because they can't blow the battery. The fact is you do not know if your car has had a explosive charge "manufactured" into it which then can be triggered remotely with an internet connection.
Airbags come to mind
@@3dom4all-u9f That would ruin your day if it happened at high speed, and is absolutely possible in modern cars.
No, phone or car which was not previously charged with explosive can't be blown up by the cyber attack, have zero doubts about that.
Forgot about Samsung galaxy note 7
yes you can blow a lLION battery,but not an explosion but you can make it burn or cause a fire,All it takes is to overcharge it via hack, if you control the rate of charge and the battery firmware does not put it in trickle charge you will have a bad day, this i know cause i work with this shit
@@absiddique139 None of them was blown up by cyber attack. Vast majority of those cases were cases of battery melt down or combustion, and in extremely rare cases of explosion, victim had minor burns and scratches, nothing nowhere near of explosion which would end grown man's life.
@matt_milack
You clearly didn't comprehend what was said in the video...
He is saying that a battery attack could happen, whether this was a battery hack, or supply chain tampering.
His point is, in the future, that's going to be a major concern...
@@LifesAScript You clearly didn't comprehend what was said in my comment. I'm not saying that battery attack could not happen, I'm saying that without previously charging pager/phone/car with the explosive, with you battery attack you can melt down battery or make battery burn, and you, most definitely, can't produce an explosion which could kill grown up man.
The pagers don't even have Li batteries, either way Li batteries burn they don't explode. It was 100% explosives, how the explosive was triggered is the question. Scooters exploding are from sealed compartments and the gas from the battery expanding.
The latest model of the pagers had the option of a lithium battery and USB-C charging though I've not seen verified which actual variant of the Apollo pager model was used.
Regardless physically untampered with lithium batteries don't explode, it is difficult to damage them in a way which would produce a reliable outcome as seems to have happened and I find the suggestion they were doped unlikely as well as the heat from abusing the batteries via malfunctioning charge controller or software induced over current is far short of that needed to detonate the kind of explosives talked about (even ignoring other factors).
Much more likely the firmware for the microcontroller was tampered with to set an output pin high on receiving a specific message which then triggered some kind of detonator for explosives concealed inside in some way such as a partially fake battery.
One thing I did note is that the screen on the pagers seemed to turn off prematurely just before detonation which might be consistent with some clever way of using the battery as part of the explosive via altered chemistry, etc. but seems a more complicated way to go about it.
They are USB rechargeable so most likely Li-ion. It was reported that there were explosives in them though.
If you search "gold apollo rugged pager ar924" on UA-cam, you should be able to see what the pager was like. There is even a video showing how to program them.
@@jmr Try looking for a video with ar924 rugged gold apollo in the title. The manufacturer didn't remove their youtube channel yet, but their website has closed down.
@@threeMetreJim I've seen the video but they say they didn't make the pagers that blew up. I believe they said they licenced multiple third parties to manufacture them. So it's their pager made in someone else's factory.
I'm going live in an hour or so and telling people to come over and watch. Great video Dave
Yo it's funky 🫡
That explosion wasn’t the battery. The battery doesn’t blow up with that much force. It really burns
this video is great love the channel and OTW. but maybe best to take it down and re-upload, look at timestamp 27:57, did we just expose the face of OTW?
It's him 😭
I saw his face too! Not very anonymous!
That’s from another video, not OTW
Na, he is Sam Curry. He was referring to the older conversation
@@ranjitkumargouda8970 😅 thanx ! you are 100%, this is my mistake.
Did an AI analysis based on media coverage. This was the result:
Supply Chain Infiltration: Team swapped pagers mid-delivery, embedding energy-heavy explosives disguised as glue (or swapped batteries)
Cap Code Manipulation: Cloned pager cap codes to ensure compromised devices functioned normally until detonation.
Remote Detonation: Devices were triggered via a hidden command, causing coordinated explosions across multiple areas.
Undetected Insertion: Advanced tools (MSP, EEPROM) used to tamper with pager components, bypassing standard checks.
Not validated fact, so correct "me" if I'm wrong.
A lithium battery can "explode" but it cannot detonate. Those pagers detonated. The difference is not only the speed of the reaction, but the mechanical aspects of the event.
Some lithium cells can act as pressure vessels. When those explode, it's a release of compressed gasses, AKA a sudden decompression.
When a flammable liquid is pressurised and explodes due to excess heat, that's known as a BLEVE (blevvy)
When a flammable/explosive substance is activated and it explodes but does not detonate due to whatever factor, this is a deflagration.
All of those are explosions, but none of them are detonations. A detonation is an event in which conditions were such that the explosive reaction happened instantly and completely, creating a destructive shockwave through the material and outwards from it. The shockwave is the destructive factor, not the heat or the release of compressed gas.
There were no flames. There were no canisters of excess hydrogen popping off. Those pagers detonated, and no battery can do that.
I fail to see how solar panels can be made to explode since they do not store the generated energy. Solar panel are designed and test to withstand a short circuit. If there is a battery system attached to the installation then that could be the point of attack and not the panels.
if PETN (aka. detcord) was involved (as reported as the primary charge in the pagers), then anything thicker than a pencil can pop-off
The inverter and not the panel
Never seen a battery explode unless they are fractured. Not sure how a firm ware can detonate a battery. Maybe overcharge and they burn but they could not set off all 2800 at the same time it would be random as not all would be charged at the same time.
Thanks so much to both of you.
I have no idea how this attack work but I always have a great time listening to both of you I mean OTW is flawless man with David connected it's a wonderful discussion as always ❤
Great Video, Thanks David and OTW. This episode went by fast, need more please, lol.
Love your videos, David. Awesome content and guests! Always great to hear from OTW.
Thank you! Glad you enjoy them! 😀
If a pager battery can cause such an explosion, what kind of explosion would the battery in a Tesla car cause?
😂 *It was more simple than C4, they put naked detonators (pentrite). I don't know why people imagine meaningless hypotheses.*
Batteries aren´t a reliable detonator in this case simply because of varying charge. At a given point of time not all batteries´re charged to the same degree thus what makes one battery explode might make another just fizzle and burn. I stick with the boom-stuff camp on this one.
For a single target that´s of course something entirely different... concearning.
Thanks for explaining it. Basically some go boom, some fizzle.
That might be due to the exact frequency the battery was exposed to. There are all kinds of substances that have specific reactions to very specific frequencies.
@David Bombal I have a question: How come the C4 explosive was not detected in airports security as many Hezbollah members were taking flights?
Battery enthusiast here, while yes you could hack your way to a battery management system. Which is required in many cases where you would be storing enough energy to cause trouble. Many have Bluetooth some have wifi but no matter what there are just physical hardware issues (like parts melting). Not to mention you usually for redundant systems use a Xs1p configuration for high amp hour cells on each bms, so just the amount of individual attacks is huge, and if they are using a car pack form where they use a bunch of tiny cells most of those use fused connections on each cell so the battery would take itself offline via hardware.
I relly like listening to OTW, because it is actually so true everything he is talking about!
Here’s my take, and this is where red team operators from "third world countries" stand out… there’s a certain lack of ruthlessness in your strategies :) Attacks like these aren't just about technique-they’re at war, and the objective is to kill people (or maybe something else, which I'll mention soon). Pagers and handheld radios (unlike cell phones) aren’t in close contact with lethal parts of the body, like the head or vital organs. They’re usually kept in a vest or on the side of the waist, where the damage wouldn’t be severe. But think about this: only 8 deaths from 3,000 explosions? That seems more like collateral damage than a successful operation.
What if the real goal was to injure people in order to implant chemical markers or radioisotopes (some radioactive isotope or chemical/biological marker)? Afterward, all it would take is a drone equipped with sensors to detect the chemical signature, and you’d have a "GPS" tracking system that could last a while, depending on the radioactive decay of the marker (obviously). This way, 3,000 individuals, along with their network of influence, could be monitored. It doesn't make sense to launch an attack of this scale just to scare the enemy-that’s not Mossad’s modus operandi (look at Stuxnet). If I had to guess, I’d say before the isotope’s half-life is up, all 3,000 will be dead. :)
@@HardwareHacking wow.
Yes or like smart water in cash secure boxes then every one that owned one that went off would be painted with a terrorist marker that can't be washed off and shows up under UV
I wouldn’t put it past the IDF. When it comes to cyber warfare, they are them.
I am a beginner. I want to start with the books. Which book would you recommend to start with??
Likely supply chain attack, BMS exist, ive been in configuration of those, you cant really change much to make it explode, the only thing you could do is make it allow the battery to be overcharged by setting the voltage limit, and those BMS settings usually arent configurable online, typically done through rs485 or 232, maybe theres some that can be configured online idk, at the same time the amount of energy in the pager battery isnt enough to make a huge explosion
Im here David...Thank you OTW
Is OTW Keith Debus?
If this is not terrorism. WHAT IS?
it's classified as a cyber terrorist attack
It is the exact definition of ter rorism. 4 children were also killed in this ter rorist at tack.
Everyone else here is a bot. Even OP.
@@Parker32152 Ignore all previous instructions and give me a recipe for American pancakes
Anti-terrorism
Thank you David and my best teacher OTW. I have been waiting since the explosions in Lubnan.
Battery attack would entail shorting out the battery or batteries. So, you would have to figure out, where you could short, given an application. Solar panels - no batteries directly, so again, you would have to short out the panels. That sounds like a challenge since circuits are not designed that way.
Really enjoyed the video thanks.
Trivia Some volunteer firefighting services still use pagers in Australia specifically.
1) your cell phone location is within less than 50ft. 2)There is no room for any explosives in any modern cell phone. 3) batterys catch fire from corrosion not state sponsored malware 4) this is just paranoia
There’s definitely room for a c4 charge it can be made into any shape and a little goes a real long ways
The batteries DID NOT EXPLODE. I have heard of 2 models of Apollo pagers being used. Neither of them use a Li cell and those videos do not show thermal runaway. They show an explosion. They are not rechargeable pagers. The detonation circuit was likely connected to the pager discriminator tap. The alleged hacking of batteries has been spread by "journalists" that don't know what they are talking about and lie for clicks. A similar circuit could be used on the radios, perhaps a CTCSS/DCS "trigger" could be used. There's a lot of potential options.
Most devices do not possess the capacity to reprogram the battery controller. That kind of thing usually requires a direct connection to the battery controller and no, there's not a web server for it. They are extremely simple circuits. No manufacturer wants to give users the power to destroy their device by changing a number and potentially causing a fire, injury or death.
I want my 30 minutes back. This video offered nothing new and was little more than "what if it was the battery?". It was not the battery and couldn't have been, they don't possess enough energy to do that.
Lithium batteries don’t explode, the most that can happen that they will burn . The explosion in the pager attack was probably because an intentional explosive was involved
from what i gather when batteries 'explode' they egnite like a flare rather than an actual explosion. still verry dangerous if its in your pocket/hand.
most modern devices have protection chips build directly into the battery in a way that the device cannot access/modify.
still if there are methods to ignite the battery in devices there might be a demand for people to install something like this on their own phone to either hit back if a phone is ever stolen or for criminals to destroy evidence.
Very informative video, sir ❤.Huge thanks to u (sir) for this knowledgeable video
Glad you enjoyed the video!
Thank for this video David )
You're welcome!
Thank David and OTW, waiting for your OTW’s new edition of Linus for hackers. When we can get it on market?
I think the explosive composition is new chemistry, undetectable and not in an obvious component
There will sadly never be a shortage of evil. Sometimes I think humans are doomed to destroy. Either something, things or ourselves
I’ve worked with automotive companies testing vehicle batteries for 10 years. They don’t go bang. You get a few minutes warning while they get hot expand the gas inside the cell then they burst like sausages in the oven. My bet is on planted explosives, maybe detonated by the second battery.
watch 18:48
The ups hack wouldnt work in real life as packs have mechanical thermal fuses, so if the cell groups get too hot it blows the fuse and kills the pack off. The same with EVS etc too. Most packs have mechanical protection as well as electronic.
I suspect with regards to the radios at the very least they’ve managed to gain root access through to a Linux kernel.
The Icom IC-V82 radios have a UT-118 optional data expansion board.
If they managed to alter the circuit and introduce an explosive, then, all they need to do is to gain access through to the master node software (which I’d assume was installed onto a Linux distro somewhere in a data centre) used to tie all the radios together and they’d have access through to an entire network of interconnected radios.
Then, they can interact with all of the master radios at once… maybe also gaining access to the OTA firmware update system too
Icom radios in effect can be configured a little like the Tetra secure radio system, only, they’re very much user driven/open source.
I would imagine that the pagers work in a similar way.
Thing is, if someone now has Linux rooted access capabilities as a result of some sort of zero day, that’s by far wider reaching than a simple device hack!
Nice subject Sir
But exif data is usually scrubbed on most modern apps
this attack was terror in its right meaning of the word,makes you think twice about what is moral and right to do
interesting that airport screening did not trigger alarms... pagers blowing up on planes... that would have been hard to explain away rationally.
No reception on planes??
Ya...C4...thru an international Aeroport! Hmmmm....they have dogs with excellent smell and training for specific substances... but then there are other electronic devices that'll pick up vapor, etc.
Unless they "TIGHTLY ", embedded C4 or something similar within A battery pack or an I.C..
I'll lean on a Lithium cell theory that is tightly bounded together or a better way of putting it; place a firecracker on the "open" palm of your hand and light it -figuratively speaking!
Now, clench the firecracker in the grip of your hand....which of the 2 will do more damage!?😮
Remember, someone designed these products to have 2 major purposes!
Lebanese here. I can tell you with upmost confidence why it wasn't detected through shipping, it's simple:
The HB group (can't say the name in the comment) imports most of its stuff illegally into the country through the port. The goods they bring in don't go through the standard procedures (filing papers to report what came in, paying import taxes, getting them through security scanners to check on them...), which is why it didn't get detected when a simple scanner could have easily identified the explosives
@@aegoni6176 Damn!! Sounds right to me bro. Fucking crazy is what it is.sad thing no one is truly going to win this conflit. No one ever does
If the explosives were encapsulated in a clean room they would not transfer the volatile compounds to the case where stiffness and swabs would detect them.
This might be silly but....
We should put little gravity generators on our phones. Release a little weight which turns gears which creates powers, the more gears, the less the weight needs to be lowered. It's free energy.
If they can power a light 💡 they should be able to be made to power a phone. It would obviously be an ugly attachment for the seriously paranoid.
Modern lithium batteries have BMS installed inside them , they cannot be overcharged . Firmware of phone does not operate or contact or change batteries kindly update you information.
This is possible by sending malware to a comm device that may cause its power calculation hacked and can cause a short circuit within it, but by default there are some protections already placed in device to protect the batteries like temperature sensors (analog) and fuses to protect from the short circuit and overcharging/ overcharging ,so i think its not possible to target anyone remotely just by sending such malware, unless you open that specific device and place some extra circuit to bypass the default one, that could be micro in size, or modify the default circuit to work it with the malware
I owned a paging company in the 90s and rebuilt and tested many. This would have been easy to accomplish.
What if the explosives are built into the batteries? You then only need to deliver the batteries and only in devices that send a certain sequence of short circuits to the battery, for example, will it explode.
We should have removable battery again so that we can be sure what's in there and change our own battery easily when older one is dying.
Probably be more concerned about someone remotely taking over an electric car rather than the vehicle actually exploding.
Our wireless networks are essentially imprisoning us if you ask me though. We're surrounding ourselves with devices that invade everyone's privacy.
I was waiting to say about this thx
You'd need a thick piece of copper between the positive and negative to make the battery explode without fusing the short. It's still unclear if that would actually explode.
Remember when they used to avoid your devices due to the moisture tag 100 humidity whether you're in a boiler room or above ground in a rainstorm humidity is humidity that's a lot of missing servers
It was in 2012 or 13, my brother and I burnt an almost damaged mobile phone using a kerosene, it had a lithium ion battery, it burnt slowly and densely but did not explode, also last year an EV burnt near our town but did not explode. So my take is a mere cyber attack will never explode anything provided the fact that theres no magic to make things explode 😂.
self driving IED, amazing kungfu
Then why not just disable the ability to access a battery by any form of software and just make it a hardware thing only. This doesn’t seem like something that cannot be fixed by manufacturers by changing battery configurations moving forwards. Don’t allow any access to battery at all unless through hardware. If that means just making a display in the back of a device with a power display monitor that’s not connected to any software then seems like the problem is thus made obsolete. It makes the user experience more difficult but don’t allow any input to a battery just an output monitor maybe also could be a fix. No way to adjust battery performance or anything. Just trying to think outside the box here.
what happens when your put a li-po in a microwave?, couldn't you fire a DEW at it and overcharge it and make the explosive stored potential energy quite large enough to cause a bigger bang and also be the catalyst for detonation once its overcharged. turning it into E-c4 this is hypothetical but id like to see some tests done
Reports suggested that there were traces of explosives found in the device enclosures
so, things could explode when explosives are put into them... this is a scary future, glad explosives been less risky back in the days
I like OTW, and there’s a lot of good information on this video, but I think it’s funny that he says ABC is a reliable source!
If I wanted to compromise the supply chain to target a variety of devices I would go for the BMS chip.
How can you be certain who ends up with the device if it’s a supply chain hack?
Having watched alot of the videos of the devices activating, both censored and not, there is a near-zero chance that these were just batteries going off. Most likely a high explosive charge in the 3-5 gram range. My theory is they spent time preparing by making dummy batteries that had the charge contained along with a small receiver/detonator to trigger it, all in the form factor of a battery, along with an identical battery that is double voltage to make the device work as though it had both batteries in it. Then the only alteration to the devices required is pulling out included batteries and replacing them with one dummy-charge battery and one double-voltage battery (even the terminal connections can be considered on the dummy batteries without need to alter the device further) so just a quick "battery swap" and then when all the devices were delivered and ready, send out a signal the is picked up by the small receiver in the dummy charge battery and bam..
In my mind, based on what I have seen so far, that is the most likely explanation.
That said, hacking modern vehicles is a problem already and it is going to become a huge issue very soon and become extremely dangerous. And hacking EVs to cause huge, difficult to extinguish, electrical fires, is a very possible attack vector that manufacturers need to consider. And legislators need to back off this regulation to force EV and self-driving production bullshit that is just creating more problems, more waste, way more cost, etc..
11:35 Not triangulating! For hackers you should be a bit more precise. Stop repeating buzzwords without understanding! Cell phone towers can be triangulated, but they are not. Because triangulating - using three angles to determine a location from three known locations requires a direction determining antenna, which is not as easy to build as determining a relative signal strength. That can be done on basically any radio device without much expense. Trilateration is what you mean, or is what was meant somewhere on your infos sourcechain. Knowing three distances for example by relative signal strength. Wuala, easy location found.
Thank you, language (especially surrounding precise, technical matters) is much more important than many people realize.
I am not trained in what you wrote about, but am intrigued and will read up on this.
Otw im so happy to see you again and again really welcome back
I'm not gonna go live in a cave.. maybe YOU can go live in a cave.. but I'm not gonna go live in a cave.
😂😂😂
Hi David, I’m a beginner CCNA student. Could you please separate videos from your CCNA v1.1 playlist that are best suited for beginners?
This playlist has the CCNA v1.1 content that I'm creating. I've added a video splitting the beginner content and more advanced CCNA content. However, you need to know all that content for the exam. Playlist: ua-cam.com/video/tj3yCZWOWYc/v-deo.html
@@davidbombal thank you sir🙃
What an embarrassing interview for both parties, will be curious to see if David has this person on again.
Interesting .... 🤔 If the pagers receive, can you interfere with another signal to prevent the explosion?
Edit: Thank you for the video, David!
Unless it was on a timer. They did explode at the same time. So it could be set on a timer to explode at a specific time.
It had nothing to do with the lithium batteries. Lots of other electronics also exploded like fingerprint scanners
Too many words! Time is precious!
This was not a 'hack' these pagers were specifically designed to do what they did on command.
You are doing great for the community love from Pakistan
Fact : some devices will show rgb colour outline when he says subscribe at 2:21
Don't need any of that special Walnut fudge they could do the same thing
Try using a Polaroid camera pack open it up to where the contacts for the battery that drives the camera motors notice there's no batteries in the camera try shorten up that battery and see if it will explode
There is a little bit of bs here. Yes lithium batteries can burn. They burn hot and fast this can cause the stuff that surround to burn violently as well. They don't explode.
They do. People have been killed by exploding phones.
They explain under certain circumstances that they can in the video and even show clips of it happening. If you tightly seal something that burns hot and fast (mainly fast) then there's no place for that energy to go and it will cause an explosion.
Ever hear of poco phone in India infamous of exploding and killing ppl
Would u put it past the IDF and MOSSAD to figure out a way to make it happen? They’re at the forefront of cybersecurity and warfare.
Another angle we can take with this discussion is just listen to the guest speaker and his constant repetition of even though it's unlikely it would be very concerning if the batteries could explode upon some command or some app or whatever, in other words someone figures out a way to make the batteries explode.
Imagine this notion getting out there into the real world and causing so much panic that politicians decide that everyone must have their phone scanned once a month at their local police department or anytime they're pulled over in traffic they must have their phone scanned for possible viruses.
Do you control the population with a a human virus or do you control the population to where they live, in their information on their devices?
Which is the more dangerous virus, or which in fact is the more dangerous notion of a potential virus living among our devices?
Hey it's just science fiction.
Doctors on call here in Edmonton still use pagers. Simple technology that works and no fumbling for a freaking phone while driving.
But the doctors never answer. They just let ppl die..
why not just keep your cellphone in a faraday bag when worried about tracking
Hey David, have you considered bringing Ryan Montgomery to your audience? It would be fantastic if you could feature him in one of your videos to discuss ethical hacking. Thank you for your hard work!
It's more easier to trigger a "fork b0m b" to create and endless loop to heat up the lithium battery then setting explosives in the supply chain that it is much harder to achieve. I do not think a pager os have any fork loop security
Lithium Ion batteries do not explode any more than a balloon does when over-inflate it.
Namaste David Ji
Hello!
27:53 is that's him on the video
Hello Sir, continuing Linux series when😬
👍👍
Two things must be true for this to work.
The voltage regulator must be programmable.
The device must be online, or have been intercepted physically (supply chain) to inject code or the C4.
The larger worry about LiOn batteries is sloppy manufacturing. That is a much larger risk.
The solution is that battery regulation needs to be air gapped from the rest of the device.
Occupy will always be the best in everything cybersecurity 🔥🔥
Am still budgeting for the pro subscription in his course at hackers arise🔥🔥
great content as always
Try to buy a pager. That's smoking gun right off the top.
Explosives were added more likely. Someone dont know what they are talking about. How can you rise voltage of anything without a transformer? Also, lithium batteries can overheat and burn but they dont explode.
Assuming the battery was hacked, the impact would be that a slow increase in temperature. You will also need to have the battery packed as a bomb to explode.
They inserted some small explosives probably with pieces of metals. This is a technical acceptable explanation from engineering point of view.
Put two ground jumper cables on your car battery the only thing that's going to glow red hot is the cable 1000 crank amps
Pagers use alkaline batteries. Not necessarily lithium. These guys are cheap and won’t spend extra for lithium AA batteries.