THIS Grid Reduces The Need For Renewables!
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- Опубліковано 27 лип 2024
- We tend not to give the grid too much thought and yet these often weary copper webs are vital - carrying the proverbial lifeblood that keeps everything going. We took a look at the Western Interconnection, a whopping great big behemoth of a grid that spans a staggering 136,000 miles from Alberta to Mexico. We discovered that this isn't just about carrying electricity from where it's generated to where it's consumed in homes, businesses or industry, but rather a much more sophisticated balancing act that can allow strategic exchanges of clean, renewable energy across massive geographies and timezones. Send excess hydropower from British Columbia in the summer to help California when air conditioning is blasting, or send excess solar from California when the heating goes on in Canada. This approach not only reduces the number of new renewable energy assets to make the grid greener, but offers an intriguing insight into what a mega North America Macro Super Grid could look like! Who knew a pylon could be so fascinating?! Imogen investigates!
00:00 A Macro Grid?
00:53 Dealing with Intermittent Renewables
01:32 Swapping Clean Energy
02:09 Big Distances
02:40 Predicting the Future
04:35 Power Across The Border
05:35 AC DC
07:14 Seasonal Peaks
07:45 Sharing Renewables Nationally
09:45 The Contentious Bit
10:40 Doubling The Roll Out
11:27 What Next?!
11:52 A Greener Grid
12:29 Explore Further!
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Love that Fully Charged is taking on more complex topics and getting into the weeds about this stuff. Much more useful info than a review of yet another EV SUV.
Yeah, would love it if they covered more stuff like this. Maybe V2G tech.
The biggest challenge isn't Geography. It's politicians who are more interested in making themselves temporarily wealthy than the health and welfare of future generations.
So true - we need to keep bandits like Trump and his game out of power
As someone who has met three young wannabe politicians, you are spot on. Selfish, greedy, fake people friendly career driven. Tend to become Tories or Champagne Socialists.
I dunno, at the moment after all that investment wind is producing less than 1% of the UKs electricity.
… 50% of Victoria’s power right now is wind
@@edc1569 Not according to published data. According to national grid it was 26.8% in 2022, with peaks over 70%, which is why facts are more important than opinion
The production value on these videos is top notch. Storyboarding, scripting, presentation, graphics and multimedia..... Top class. Just the type of educational resources to change hearts and minds. Well done to the entire team involved. 👏
Who funds it?
@@clives4501 banana republics
Yeah they are but I felt this one was lacking a little on the real issues relating to the smart grid development. Perhaps more detail is coming and this was just an introduction
Most people assume that locally generated power sources are superior because it's more efficient to use power locally. *Long-distance transmission is actually very efficient.* You only lose about 5%, so building out a large wind or solar farm in a great location usually ends up being far more efficient than trying to shoehorn power generation into a local spot.
_(Side note: Even as an American I'd rather see the distances reported in km. We have 5k run events here but do not have any 3.10686 mile run events.)_
Every place that adopts renewables sees the price of energy shoot up, just a fact.
Have you ever said 5.28 kilofeet.
@@appliedengineering4001 I prefer 10,936.132983 deciyards.
Even better yet, lets ditch the Imperial system and go metric.
It's quite a challenge to swap out the presenter of a channel with a new person. Imogen is knowledgeable, and produces great content. Go you!
Have they not had a variety of presenters for a long time though? It was only in the early days when Robert was doing the whole thing.
Who was replaced?
@@SWR112 Robert is still presenting on the main channel. But I guess they moved the news show onto the second channel. I guess Imogen replaced Helen Czerski? I haven’t seen her for a while so I assume she’s left FC.
@@christillHelen is still around and will be doing many sessions for fully charged live
@@ShmuelSpade Ah cool. Any time you can have smart people involved, the better. And she supports cycling, so for me that’s important for the channel.
Thanks for addressing the biggest problem in decarbonization - transmission.
Another great video from Imogen and team.
Thank goodness for Canadians. They are refreshing in that they are not falling over themselves to see who can out compete his fellow American for craziest.
(Another) Great presentation, Imogen! 🇨🇦
Who knew that when we work together and plan for the future needs of the people that it benefits everyone!
Another brilliant report on a complex subject by Imogen, Governments need to encourage home owners and factories to enhance their solar panels by having batteries, this will also take pressure off the grid
07:46 "The North American grid is split into three interconnected grids; East, West and Texas." Yes, we are all aware of how "special" Texas is. That should require no further explanation.
Texans are fed up with the current power clusterfluff. Getting conserve warnings for multiple days in September along with the great freeze shut down has soured the flavor of that independent spirit.
Well done Imi. You have managed to explain quite a complex solution,very simply so evan I can understand it
What a superbly informative and wonderfully watch this episode is! Bravo Team Fully Charged!
An impressive presentation of the issues with excellent visuals - thank you Imogen & your team.
Extremely well done video on a complex large subject that's a total mystery to most people. The diagrams, interviews and on-site location visits help make this topic tangible. This video is going in my permanent bookmarks for sure. 👍
Hello from Ireland now let's get drinking 😊
Amazing video! All so well explained and clear. Loved the Polestar shots as well! Keep it going!❤
Been saying this for years, Australia needs massive solar in WA and send it to the East coast for the evening demand as WA is mostly 3+hrs behind. So during summer at like 9PM AEST the solar would just be tapering off a bit in WA as its just 6PM. And did you know, Perth W.A is further north than Sydney by almost 2' !
Fascinating and brilliantly produced. Nice one FC!
I love these sorts of videos! Thank you!
I live in northeastern Washington state, and we have dams and huge transmission lines. They are nice in that they go straight up and over the mountains which means they are great places to ski in the winter on their steep treeless slopes. Especially since all the snow reaches the ground in early winter making then the first place you can find good snow.
Another very interesting topic as usual and very well presented. I think I could listen to this geeky babe all day long, especially on such related topics. Thank you!
Cool. I grew up around large hydro projects. School visits and open days including a underground hydro station. Tongariro power scheme.
Thanks for all the useful knowledge you have taught me, these last few years. 🙂
Another fascinating and insightful episode brilliantly delivered by Imogen. Keep up the amazing work FCS! 🤩🤩👏🏻
This is sooo the answer… we don’t need batteries. We just need a grid that goes across the glove so that there is always sun somewhere
I live in rural Australia and have bumped my PV to feed my Volvo XC40 recharge :)
Very professional video with a stunning Imogen presenting intelligently.
I was hoping to hear about new developments regarding Electro Magnetic Radiation shielding by these high power transmission lines...
Very good video, keep it up. :D
Don't forget the constraints on the system, only so much power can be transported without instability in the system loop. The 750 kV DC line only goes in one direction, South. There are ties to the Eastern interconnection also; as well as the Texas interconnection, although they don't like to admit it. The losses are more than 10 percent but with local battery storage losses will be reduced. Most of this wire is aluminum (ASCR). Distance is one of the biggest challenges, not politicians. Don't ask me how I know, (former system operator).
Great video.
Beautiful presenter Imogen
What an excellent video! Well done!
Excellent VIDEO! THABKS!
Remarkable! I'm now a fully qualified US electricity consultant.
I only ever came on here to watch Creighton ask comics what he thought of his new Prius
Kryten. Nice try though. Makes him sound more like a 19th Butler.
Kryten is a butler, or started out as one anyway.
@@durwoodmaccool890 I even spell checked that.
Hi Imogen. Love your work 👍
Woah this is so interesting, we would love to see revolutionary strategies like this implemented in Australia!
So wise , Thank You
Roicky and Imogen in one video? And my favorite topic? Life is great, thanks!!!
No talk about “smart” transmission lines or new wire technology? Those innovations are inexpensive, use existing grid infrastructure, and can move about 75% more electrons. Those are needed and are being implemented today with very short permitting timelines to get us half way there to 100% renewables.
I have lived in BC for my whole life. We are very aware of the transmission lines but they are second nature. I have to admit that it was WAC Bennett who had the foresight to nationalise BC Electric and found BC Hydro. I cannot say I was a fan of BC's Social Credit Party but if we had stayed with BC Electric we could have ended up with a power grid like Texas.
Does BC Electric have 30,000 wind turbines?
If run by power companies there is only about 300, I believe. There is a lot of potential on the coast, but if you look at the west coast of BC it isn't very accessible except by water. There is a massive potential that is going untouched and that is geothermal as BC on the Pacific Ring of Fire. I thought if someone comes up with a fairly functional system then there could be wave power and tidal power. We surely have a lot of hydro power and a lot that has not been tapped, the Moran Dam on the Fraser River, planned but not done, which would have been an environmental disaster.
@@HermannKerr there are a few tidal-flow generators running, mostly around Scotland, but they're still small early stage machines, basically a submarine with an over-sized propeller riding at anchor. They seem reliable.
Tidal-range there's less of & so far they're a coastal barrage with low-head turbines set through the wall. There's one in France that's been working nearly 60 years (La Rance).
I haven't seen wave power working at scale yet but there are many promising designs.
We need to really expand geothermal power production in Northern Nevada.@@HermannKerr
You are the best presenter in this channel ❤
Like to see BC Hydro talk about reconductoring existing transmission line. We could do alot better.
What a lovely lady, makes learning tech easy watching listening
Except I have trouble understanding what she says because of the bad audio.
Just FYI, electrons don't "move around", even less along "long distances".
We need more and more of these big interconnections, nice!
But we also need to scale battery storage exponentially and start adapting our usage in order to help the grid, that’s where hourly tariff is the way to go!
Informative
Thank you
This large scale model is one solution but better balancing of local grids can really increase renewable use and use battery storage to ease peaks!
Yeah and as always literally everything.ade possible with ICE and oil! What are EVs doing un the meantime!?
Oh, the wonders of modern technology! We can have _both!_
@@alanmay7929 Did you notice the scow-bodied ore hauler in the video? (2:47)
Did you notice it's electric? The excavator filling it is probably electric too.
These things were available in electric long before ICEs were invented & are still quite often the best solution.
@@alanhat5252 are you living under the rocks on in your sweet dreams!? All those machines were steam powered first and then transitioned to diesel which made them significantly way more capable and versatile in all places around the world.
@@alanhat5252 from opening the mining site to installing all the equipments to operation and site reconstitution its all made possible with the almighty diesel power. Try again!
Well done
Put the lines underground as much as possible. It's more expensive up.front, but in the long term it's definitely worth it. High voltage DC for the long distance super grid, AC for medium grids and low voltage battery backed up DC micro grids for the neighbourhood.
Nope!!!! It's definitely not worth it and not everywhere! The repairs and other works on it are super expensive on underground lines.
@@alanmay7929disagree, repairs may be more expensive but are less frequent. It like a bkick road vs.asphalt. Brick is more expensive and more expensive to repair but lasts so much longe. But it’s easier to slap down asphalt that lasts three to five years to get some votes…
The losses are far greater when buried. So not just more expensive to build. More expensive to run.
@@michaelsmithers4900 wrong!!!
Better transmission, in combination with better demand side management can make the need for storage very small. We're still getting better at transforming power, we might get AC/DC transforming technologies that makes HVDC relevant for much shorter distances, and longer, than current, relatively soon. I find storage more technically interesting than improved transmission, but improved transmission is a better solution.
Shaving the worst peaks from peak demand makes it much easier to meet demand with long distance transmission. And there's a lot of potential for households moving power draw from grid a few hours or more that requires no to moderate investments or adjustments in life when everything is electric. Most charging of non-commercial EVs can be moved days without problems. A lot of the heat for hot water and heating homes can relatively easily be stored for hours. Thermal storage for cooling, for ACs and refrigerators could be even easier, as water has a convenient freezing point, which even can be adjusted with additives. Thermal storage also means you don't need as high output from the heat pumps as you need for that instant powerful heating or cooling, which means you can get higher efficiency. Also, running conventional ACs harder the higher the outside temperature gets is, well, not intelligent.
Thank you.
I wanted to hear much more technical detail. Here’s something I’m wondering about. Electricity is propagating presumably at the speed of light in the metal that the conductors are made out of. The size of these interconnects is so big that there’s a substantial propagation delay from one end of the network to the other. So I’m wondering how the different parts of the network synchronize themselves in terms of synchronizing the phase angle of the AC waveform in different places. If you took a snapshot of the grid at a single moment in time, what would the locations where the propagating electricity is currently at its peak look like?
If we connected the eastern and western grid we could send solar power at night across timezones
Higher voltage allows for thinner conductors to carry the same current. Longer distance leads to fatter conductors to offset the accumulated resistance.
Actually higher voltage does not allow thinner conductors to carry the same current. Higher voltage does however allow thinner conductors to carry the same power (watts). The amount of current a wire can carry is not related to voltage. Voltage x amps = Watts. Increase the voltage and you increase the Watts if the current stays the same.😊
@@richardnwilson Of course that's what I _meant_ to say. ;-)
The national electric grid is humanity's greatest asset.
Yesterday (Sept 6) ERCOT the Texas grid manager/operator declared a Level 2 Emergency. Grid reserves were below 1750 MW. We seem to be headed for another shortfall today as they are curerntly asking for voluntary conservation. If Texas actually participated in the Western Interconnection, the state would be much better off. But no, Republicans running the state are irrationally opposed to "federal regulation" that they would be under if they joined the other interconnected systems in the country. So their petty posturing means Texas citizens suffer power outages on a regular basis and are frequently asked to cut back, all so the "leaders" can get brownie points with low information voters. Great stuff right?
1:45 yes i was alway saying y parking lot dont built sunroof shade. Keep car cool and keep snow and rain off
Interesting point about AC/DC transmission. AC suffers significant losses in underwater transmission, due to electromagnetic interactions with cladding and seawater, so DC is used. Perhaps there is a similar effect for underground transmission, making DC a better option for that ?
Super grid? Super Imogen 😅
We need more east west interconnection to off set the peak demand with off peak power from a east west interconnection
Why not do it cheaply with batteries and solar?
The future of energy needs to be distributed energy! In areas where solar makes sense, streamline permitting, lower prices, and improve financing to enable home and small business owners to install. solar and batteries. And, we need affordable home storage batteries; less than $10,000 for 30 + kWh. Distributed energy is much cheaper than massive infrastructure profits. And, the huge projects hurt individual citizens by allowing us to compete with the corrupt and price gouging electric utility monopolies!
There are national security issues with centrally distributed electrical power.
In the 1960s I was living in Canada, when a transformer in the grid distribution site in Buffalo failed. and most of eastern Canada and the eastern US went dark.
There were only two of these transformers available at that time and it would take many months, or even years to manufacture additional transformers.
A later security analysis pointed out that there are only a dozen distribution nodes around the US relying on this type of transformer and if they were sabotaged it would take months if not years to get the US electrical grid back up again
now consider if millions of businesses and homes, with solar and energy storage,as well as electric vehicles, it would be damn near impossible to shut it all down and this type of distributed power generation and storage would increase National security.
Unfortunately I rarely ever hear this brought up as the big disadvantage of centrally distributed power generation.
Another point is historically wars are often start over access to energy, such as recently the access to petroleum products.
If there is no need to secure importation of energy sources, I suspect it would greatly reduce the reasons for countries to go to war.
And an additional bonus would be that it would not only lower the cost of living, (the cost of energy is what drives inflation), the money consumers would save would give them a better quality of life and more spending power, which would drive the economy to greater heights, something that businesses would appreciate.
I believe the best solution would be a hybrid grid, combining most areas that could be supported locally together with distribution to take care of sudden loads or breakdowns, it's a flexible approach that would address the issues and reduce the vulnerability of sabotage.
Scientia Habet Non Domus,
(Knowledge Has No Home)
antiguajohn
At 2:50 , there is a video of a dump truck powered by overhead wires. I want to know more about that.
The tech developed at the same time as steam (17th/18th centuries) & is still widely used in industry.
The excavator loading the dump truck is likely to be electric too because one wire is easier & quicker to move than hundreds of gallons of fuel.
there's a whole video all about it on this channel
If the link between Norway and the UK goes under the sea why can't these powerlines go underground?
Because they service homes on the way, were as the Norway - UK route is direct.
I can't remember where it was, but they designed Pylon towers to look like giants carrying the lines. Its almost like turning them into statues or pieces of art. If more of them were built this way, they would become an interesting part of the general scenery rather than a blight on the landscape. If we design pylons to fit into a landscape then would there be so many objections to them....?
😂I nerd out with excitement when I see them!!
@@lindam.1502 where are they?
There's a row of tidy-looking pylons crossing the M4 as you drop onto the Somerset Levels in England.
They're probably not pretty enough for a special trip but it's worth looking out for them if you happen to be going that way.
@alanhat5252 the new T pylons? Yet to see one in the metal, but I like the design.
Canada needs a HVDC transmission line across the country, not more pipelines.
Canada needs battery storage and solar maybe a little wind, just like anywhere else.
So the loss on electrical generation in the USA is 66% vs oil transportation which in a supertanker is around 5%. So those EVs are great?
Boom! Now if we could share more east to west our grid would be so much better.
Solar spread over 4-5 time zones has potential! And additionally you would get the comedic effect of a single huge connected North American grid with a hole in the middle the size of Texas. And the shape of Texas. 🤣
@@geirmyrvagnes8718 Texas is connected though what they do with the power is anyone's guess.
@@alanhat5252 They make stainless steel pick-up trucks ready for the apocalypse, of course! 🤣
Knowing this while others read at candle light, helps us how?!?
Looks like it's back to DC for both the grid & homes, HVDC is suitable for subterranean & submarine connections & DC domestic appliances just make sense these days (lighting & low-load appliances) especially with home generation being DC. AC was good for regional transmission but needs to end now as it has no place in long range transmission or domestic use.
The game-changer would be commercial though. Imagine selling electricity generated by your home back to yourself when using a public power point. Or subscribing to grid-storage bypassing the need for a huge domestic battery. Kind of like an electrical version of the internet/Cloud. Domestic generation is probably the solution to full electrification but he generation/consumption gap need to be fixed & batteries blow the budget.
And whatever it costs will be recovered by means of an even bigger standing charge.😞 I need to go off-grid before I go off my head.
Massive fings !
Power companies shouldn’t have to ask people to use less power. The price of power just needs to be time of use priced. If electricity is more expensive people won’t use it as much.
I think this also goes for industry. Make electricity expensive enough at a certain time and industry will change. Some companies would even change their working hours if it saved them enough money.
No they won't, they will put in battery storage systems. Do you have solar panels on your house?
So the rich can cool down their big houses while the poor will in heatwaves just die. cause of heat or cause the power bill does left no money to buy food. Not a good solution TBH.
Having Energy market prices as option is nice. For heatpumps and electric car charging that can be really nice when they automatic look when the best time is to use power and by that save some money.
There is a story about a bakery that switched to later working hours to have more use of the PV on the roof but that needs to be done in a clever way not by just having everyone pay Hourly marketprices.
@tedmoss Yes I do. But Washington doesn’t have time of use pricing. So I don’t have a powerwall yet.
@tedmoss Yes I do. But Washington doesn’t have time of use pricing. So I don’t have a powerwall yet.
@tedmoss Yes I do. But Washington doesn’t have time of use pricing. So I don’t have a powerwall yet.
I hope we get to putting power lines in conduit pipe, underground.
I’ve been wanting this in Australia but apparently it’s far to expensive and not viable
if only the US could / would recognize the invaluable utility of geothermal when it comes to heating and cooling, we could drastically reduce the need to send power regardless of region.
We've got a lot of land and it can be used as a heatsink. The ground not barely 2-3 metres deep is at a constant 25C year-round
As the cost goes down, more will be done. Build your own.
@@tedmoss With economy of scale, per the ideology of this video, geothermal could actually be cost effective, rather than having to build massive electrical corridors to transmit energy from Canada to the California and vise versa. The answers are literally in front of us and we refuse to accept them
Ignoring the need for clean firm energy too much.
And generating it close as possible to the demand location.
So more geothermal and nuclear is needed.
The pumping around of variable sources increases the cost of the grid and it's more costly on operating cost.
I would really urge people and fully charged to become more positive about firm clean energy sources. 🎉
how come solar panel properties are not allowed to be used for several years after the installation? I say raise them and have multi-use properties'.
The 3 sandboxes and their allegiance to shareholders and government bureaucracy makes the proposed cooperation virtually improbable. The 20-30 companies involved including foreign control ones strangle cooperation.
So, there is still no winner of your giveaway?
It’s impossible to find a good number for line loss while transporting electricity. Maybe because the number is much higher than the utilities are reporting. Local power with battery storage is bound to be less expensive, lower risk of fires, line damage, maintenance cost, land use, permitting issues, sub stations, and environmental damage. At least you should be addressing the negatives and mentioning the pros and cons. Don’t forget the undergrounding of these lines as an option. Isn’t that what they do on your side of the pond?
you do not drive with aT ford any more but your electricity is from the same time
- why is Ricky - 2-bit here ???
200,000klm @$ 2 million per klm is $ 400 trillion.
Now 5times new capacity because no fossil fuels in the future.
Some videos are crapy because they are unreasonable.
The graphic shown at 4.19 seems less than entirely accurate. Including windmills and solar panels while not showing any hydrodams, while interviewing the director of operations of a company that gets three percent of its electricity from wind and solar and eighty-seven percent from hydroelectricity gives an inaccurate impression. I would be very interested to know how much hydropower BCHydro ships to California and how much solar energy it gets in return
Environmentalists get very nervous when they hear the phrase "onerous regulations."
10:51 NEPA National Environmental Policy Act
Is it possible to run power lines underground or do they have to be on pylons?
There is a section in Dorset (UK) where some 19 pylons have recently been replaced by underground cables for aesthetic purposes in an area of Outstanding natural and historic beauty. Apparently the existing pylons were coming to end of life anyway, the cost was of cost high.
On a large scale the problem is cost per mile versus other benefits, hence cables normally only go underground in cities.
Underground cables need to be far thicker than overhead lines because they are not air cooled.
very HubTropolis ... Thank You³ 😊
A national supergrid solves a lot of problems. How about an international one? Would it make storage less necessary, if energy can be transferred efficiently around the world from point of generation to consumption?
The European Continental Synchronous Grid spans from the North Cape to Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia, and from Portugal to Anatolia. Last member connected were Ukraine and Norway. So, hurry up America, we are already several steps ahead.
Well the interconnects between Canada, Mexico and the US are international.
@@hape3862 Do you have any idea what you are talking about? The distances and power involved? Right of way?
Well this will be very hard. connecting the European grid with USA will mean that you need to find a route that is maintainable. Guess a route to iceland and then canada would be possible but that project to connect iceland to UK is tried since years and AFAIK abandoned.
The European grid does try to spread out like with the connection that is planned to Georgia the non Murican one thru the Black sea and EuroAsia Interconnector connecting greece with israel and Egypt.
But here is the reality hitting hard. In a perfect world we would connect all the grids but we are in a world of running wars and giving states the power to blackmail you or be easy targets for terrorist attacks is nothing you want to have. So the connections to other regions are quite small so that if they break the grid can easy replace it.
@@tedmoss Huh? Newsflash: The entire U.S. easily fits into the Synchronous Grid of Continental Europe! And it serves more people, over 400 million in 24 countries. So the distances are even greater, the power transport is even greater, and the rights of way are even more complicated, with 24 different countries involved and dozens of High Voltage Direct Current links running through multiple seas (North Sea, Baltic, Mediterranean, Adriatic, and Atlantic). All this is already existing and in daily use, mind you! - So I have to ask back: Do _you_ have any idea what you are talking about?
How very nice of YT to remove my comment about Material World...
Three sections; “East, West & Texas” Really!?
I wonder if you might consider employing correspondents overseas to present these programmes? Then you don't need to fly people from the UK around the globe?
You clearly havent watched many episodes. We have correspondents in Netherlands, Norway, Australia, Chine, South Korea and the USA.
@@fullychargedshow that's good to hear, and I'll look out for those videos presented by correspondents from overseas. Thanks for confirming.
the grid can not with no power lines hydro is a good water storage for farmers.
It is a realy nice video… but do me 1 favour…. The tempo with speaking may -/-50%, so your message will be a plus of 100%.
If gas pipelines are "down", why is there no drive to put powerlines down maybe using existing pipeline "routes" and making them more resilient to bad weather !? If there is the money to lay pipelines, why is it not affordable to "lay" powerlines !?
@1:36 Italian registered Tesla in California. That doesn't seem very green.
Looks like a European Supercharger to me as it’s has a CCS connector rather than a NACS connector.
We could just be using the global, super grid that already exists… y’know… the internet? Power over Fiber has been around for decades and we already have a global network of fiber lines and the ability to make more at nearly 0 environmental cost
Would never be able to carry the required power.
@@Simon-dm8zv Then we should be spending our limited time developing PoF transceivers that CAN handle the power. It would be exponentially cheaper than building an entirely new grid while being orders of magnitude more efficient
@@MrStreaty122 The electrical grid mainly needs expansion. There is a reason why aluminium / steel conductors have been used for over a century for high power transmission.