Top 10 Performance Cruising Cats [50 Foot Range, 2022 Models]
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- Опубліковано 4 лип 2024
- If you were to buy a brand new Performance Cruising Cat today, what would you get?! As the Annapolis Boat Show comes to a close, we look at the Top 10 boats we would have liked to see during the show. We provide our thoughts on the types of questions you should ask when buying, what we consider important for a cruising cat, and list the pros and cons for each vessel. Just looking for a particular boat? No problem, just skip to the chapters below:
Take our 1 question survey, which boat would you buy?:
forms.gle/tXWZEFQCNb8Wovnv7
CORRECTIONS:
Since the release of this video we have been informed of a few (inevitable) mistakes. We're sorry! But here are the corrections we wish we could go back and make:
1) The WINDELO price was off badly. We're not sure where we got that information (as price info is hard to find, especially on new boats), but the price should be $1.1m USD. This is down significantly from the $1.6m we reported. It's an interesting boat and one that everyone should check out if you find that layout interesting! And we love their Eco approach. Hopefully that spurs more competitors to do the same.
2) The SEAWIND 1600 is now heavier than reported. After producing the first few hulls they saw a need for improved Heavy Displacement payload and widened it a bit. I'm not sure it affects performance that much, but it is a change from what we reported.
3) The people at ITA reached out to inform us that you can get both Diesel and Electric engines on their new design. Again, this is a pretty cool new boat and very similar to Outremer in terms of design (and probably performance). If you're looking for the fancy Italian version of that French yard, go check them out. Also of note, this boat is Epoxy Infused, which is one of only three boats listed here to have this strong production method.
4) The OC50 from HH CATAMARANS is also Epoxy Infused, making them one of three - along with the KINETIC KC54 (not sure we mentioned that). Epoxy is reportedly 3 times stronger than Polyester and Vinylester (although that depends on the yard producing them). Either way, it is a more expensive production technique and you should know what you are paying for and why. Hope this helps!
0:00 - Why a Performance Cruising Cat?
1:47 - Questions you should ask when buying a Performance Cat
7:06 - ORC50 (TS5) - "The Minimalist Racer"
10:18 - Seawind 1600 Passagemaker - "The Cheaper Outremer"
15:17 - Outremer 51 - "The Market Leader"
19:10 - Catana 53 - "The Old Guard"
22:39 - HH Catamarans OC50 - "The Quality Leader"
29:13 - Windelo 50 - "The Eco-Apartment Boat"
34:08 - Balance 526 - "The Versa-Boat"
38:51 - McConaghy MC52 - "The Flybridge Performance Cat"
42:27 - ITA 14.99 - "The Electric Outremer"
44:34 - HH50 - "Fly A Hull If You Want To"
46:14 - Kinetic KC54 - "Poor-mans Gunboat"
50:01 - What Boat Would You Pick & Why?
Want more info on these boats? Check out the outstanding online resource Katamarans:
www.katamarans.com/marsaudon-...
www.katamarans.com/seawind-1600/
www.katamarans.com/outremer-51/
www.katamarans.com/catana-53/
www.katamarans.com/hh-oc50/
www.katamarans.com/windelo-50/
www.katamarans.com/balance-526/
www.katamarans.com/ita1499/
www.katamarans.com/mcconaghy-...
www.katamarans.com/kinetic-kc54/
BOATS WE LEFT OUT: We intentionally left out kit boats or boats with design plans like Schionning, Chris White and others. While we do have a lot of respect for boats like that, we are focusing today on companies that produce a line of boats and not one-off custom jobs. But that might make for a good future video, so stay tuned! Oh, and we regret leaving the Dazcat out. Click here to learn more: www.katamarans.com/dazcat-1495/
SPECIAL NOTE: The views expressed in this video are our own, and we were not compensated in any way for making this video. Although we are emotionally attached to our boat and the kind people at Outremer, we tried to be honest with ourselves on what boats we would look at today.
Special thanks to Hans at @GoSunChill who let us use his outstanding drone shot of the Annapolis Boat Show from the weekend! Thanks Hans!
Click here to check out that Scott Rocknak video I talked about:
• Sailing the 2020 HH Ca...
Click here for the spreadsheet:
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
We are posting live updates on our social channels:
www.the-sailing-family.com/
/ the_sailing_family
/ the-sailing-family-voyage
![Outremer 51 Owner's Tour! [🎥81🇦🇺]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/6r2VRG0X3wg/mqdefault.jpg)
Great video Seth & Elizabeth! It's very nice that so many UA-camrs are sharing very detailed information with the rest of us, this is information that you can't even get from the manufacturers. It's is probably an outlier for most people, but the ORC 50 looks really nice. It may not work (at all) for a family of 5, as it's fairly sparse. If I had the dough and a used ORC 50 was available (similar to your situation with Archer) I'd jump on that boat. I would want to look into having a helm station with a wheel added to the setup, though. This type of boat would probably require a food dehydrator and a vacuum bagger. Making long passages requires a good deal of food, and one way to store enough is to cut and dry most of your veggies. And that would require an extra amount of planning and time preparing for each long passage. Got to say, I love Christophe Barreau's design work!
I would not be at all surprised if at the end of the family’s sailing adventure Seth gets an offer to join one of these manufacturers as head of marketing.
Lol guess what. That happened.
He did
You called it
Are you psychic?
@@dannimcleod1364 … nope.. Call of dutty dit it, Rubby Rose did it… and Sailing famile…. So no suprice… I wish they all took labours condtions, wages and so in consideration. There is a clear reason some of the top boats are build in Asia and Souht Africa…
Thanks Seth and Elizabeth. So excited to see this video. I love a top 10 cat comparison. Seth, I know you love the HH boats! I can see you sailing an Outremer 55, although I know they are expensive too. (I am enjoying watching the Great Circle O55 videos). It was good to have Elizabeth’s questions and comments on each boat. I agree with the her, that green fabric was not nice! I am chartering an FP Elba 45 in 10 days time in Croatia, so I get to find out, for the first time, what it’s like to live and sail on a cat. Try before you buy!! Thanks again and love to the family ❤️⛵️
Awesome and balanced summary from performance, aesthetics and functionality. Really enjoyed it. Love the passion Seth.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Absolutely fantastic job you two. The right amount of detail to guide you when starting to look. I need to go back and watch again but off the top of my head I believe I liked the OC50. Hate that it is made in China. Loved Elizabeth's questions. She asked things that I wouldn't think to ask but learned a great deal from her questions. Way to go E. Cheers!
Elizabeth - 11 minute question on living wage and equity for all is just perfect. Thank you and well done for raising. Buyers of these luxury goods need to focus on the human element.
Agreed! :)
Hey guys, great episode and Elizabeth asked some epic questions which really balanced the technical versus practical living. I actually have the Seawind 1600 (SV Womble) from the photos you used, we are currently on the East Coast of the USA for a whole host of Covid reasons. Completely agree that every boat is a compromise, you get the base model and then start modifying it to your needs and filling it with what I would call essential toys and cruising gear. Plus there is the live aboard factor and amount of crew you are sailing with on a day 2 day basis. From a personal perspective, this is about as large as I would want to go and still be comfortable single to dual handling her as a primarily husband and wife crew. Love your channel and what an amazing experience and adventure for those lovely cubs of yours to grow up with. They are all bound to have that same sense of breaking the mould & getting out there in years to come! Best D
Very cool! Thanks for letting us know. It must be neat seeing your boat everywhere! It's a very popular boat the 1600... Any insight as to why Outremer changed the boat already to the Passagemaker? I read they widened the hulls. Are you happy with the skinner one?! Thanks for commenting!
@@TheSailingFamily One compelling thing you mentioned is the challenge from purchasing from further afield such as Vietnam. The cost of shipping globally has at least tripled plus the time of delivery has increased. So people in the USA or Europe need to get a real view as to what that cost will be if they are not going to sail the boat from where it is built. Currently it pretty much negates any benefit you get from having it built abroad. My boat is the first V2 version of the Seawind 1600. So hulls are 4” or 100mm wider for a bit more volume/load capacity, rig is heavy duty for cruising. I would describe the boat as a GT car as opposed to a Ferrari! Enjoy Australia!!
Agreed. Thankfully Southeast Asia is a paradise to cruise! Are you there now? We would love to sail the Philippines, Indo, PNG, Solomans, Thailand. So good!
Great information . I have just bought a new lagoon 46 delivery 2nd of November so only a couple of weeks , with the view to sail the med for 2 years then once i find my feet with the view to upgrade to a performance type cat , your content is invaluable to people like myself . Many thanks .
Glad it was helpful! We had a Lagoon first as well. Great boats (and super comfortable).
The nerd in me likes the podcast/lecture style of this edit! I really enjoy following all the new designs coming out. Cheers for taking the time to stack em up and put your thoughts to whats about.
With covid making the regular cruising routes more challenging its these boats which open up more of the less used West to East passage options. Then at anchor you still have a very comfy house with room for the family and the big kids toys 😎
Glad you enjoy it!
Another great video and very informative, as always, thanks Seth and Elizabeth!
Super helpful. Especially cause I’m trying to figure out what used CAT I want to get. I like the data analysis your doing and it’s needed in this UA-cam space.
Glad it was helpful! So what three would you look at?
WOW Great Video! Thank you for thoroughly encompassing almost every boat that anyone would ever be looking for in this performance cruiser category. If money was plenty and could pick any boat then it would definately be the Gunboat 68 with its Carbon fiber construction, electric drive, protected center helm and rear tillers on either side, space in front and in back of boat, and ropes and winches right at the bottom of the mast is in my opinion the ideal setup. Your analogy of the "poor mans gunboat" is so fitting. Still expensive but somewhat more attainable if i was considering a gunboat alternative. Although i would also add the HH50 on there. Both share alot of gunboat lineage. Both were Ex-Gunboat builders and both have the original Gunboat molds that were used. Both have layouts derived from Gunboat that i mentioned above. The Kinectic was a Nigel Irens designer for gunboat and the HH50 was a Melvin & Morelli design when they were contracted. I would definately look more closely at the build quality of the HH50. If both boats are the same quality then it would be tough to pick between the two. Thanks for an insightful video!
We're right there with ya!
Pretty easy decision for me, i'm NOT going to single hand a Gunboat 68!
Great video and awesome questions from Elizabeth (some of the same my wife had). We were in Annapolis this past week and were able to see several of these and sailed the Seawind 1600 and Balance 526. For those at the show that could not see a boat, I recommend making contact with your rep ahead of the show to make an appointment. We did this for every model we were interested in. My only mistake was showing the Mrs the HH50 first. The fit and finish on the HH50 is VERY nice and it would be interesting to see the OC50 which should be the same quality at a lower price point with a small performance sacrifice. We also really liked the Balance 526 (and 482). We like the versa helm which allows you to steer from the main deck with great visibility and keeps the coach roof clean. Seawind 1600 is also a nice yacht but took third in our ratings. We were really interested in the 1370 but given hull 1 is not yet available to see and the long lead times because they have already sold so many, we took this off the list. If your retirement/adventure is 4-5 years out this might be a good option too. We looked at the Outremer 45 at the show but it is a bit more spartan. We would definitely recommend the HH50/OC50 and Balance 526/482 for those who have the budget. Cheers!
Thanks Joe, that's fantastic input. Good advice on not taking your wife board the nicest boat first! 😂 You are my "boots on the ground!" I wish we could have been in Annapolis to kick the tires. Appreciate your insights! ~Seth
I was at the show and went on all these boats. I really like the HH boats, but they seem a little more delicate coastal cruiser territory to me. I like the Balance 526 as it’s very high quality, well laid out and seems very rugged as if it can take a lot of miles and stay looking good and reliable.
My husband and I were there as well- great show. Our favorite was the Xquisite X5 Plus... a special boat but too heavy to make your list despite recent improvements. HH50 was really nice (our first tour as well...) Very interested in the OC50 at a better price point and I'd rather have the space than the extra helm- - good question, Elizabeth- dual helm isn't for everyone. Great video, Seth and Elizabeth- terrific!
Thanks Seth and Elizabeth fantastic chat. The Balance is for me the versa helm is the way to go out of the sun and weather.
Wow! Great video for those that are planning to buy a boat. Thanks you guys!
Really interesting video. If I had $1m I’d consider a Grainger cat. They’re fantastic performance cats, beautiful lines & spacious interiors.
I love the concept of the ORC 50. I would start there and maybe add a few basic QOL options and stick to that.
Omg! So informative. Thank you for taking the time to sift through all of that for us. (btw. I'm still sad I missed you in Mooloolaba)
Next time!
Thanks for the great info. I think it might also be super helpful for people looking at used boats (maybe less than $500k USD) and what would be a selection of performance cruisers.
Great video. An intelligent, fair and thoughtful comparison. Thank you!
Great video!!! Lots of new boats coming out too, Loving the Outremer 55, the Balance 428 looks very interesting, as does the Seawind 1370 (Ruby Rose) and the HH40 looks incredible! Going bigger/heavier/slower I love the Privilege 580 and I'm super interested in the new Xquisite 60. Was interested in your comment about the headroom too Seth, I was fortunate enough to meet you guys in Sydney and really struggled with my height on both your and the other Outremer there on the day - any further observations about said headroom moving forwards would be awesome! All the best.
You mean the HH48? I haven't heard any updates in a long while about that model. On paper it looks to be a game changer in its segment but I wouldn't consider a model that's under development. We can't know any negatives until the first hull enters the water.
I'd like to say I've followed your Sailing Family for a while...watched the boys grow in amazing bravery...watched 'moma' support the "antics" 🙂👍 and I think I saw that you've landed an offer in sales...
SALUTE!!
All of you have educated me so much that; I hope to seek you out when I go to make my own purchase of a cat.
I'll stop here and say --
Thank You
I don’t normally watch these reviews but that was super helpful. Cheers
Glad you enjoyed it!
I went the Annapolis boat show last week. Had a great time and saw a lot of nice boats, but was disappointed that Balance said they were completely booked (prior to the show) and you could not even step foot on any of their boats. This was on Thursday morning. Not booked to talk to a rep...the answer was “we’re completely book to board the boat, I’m busy, I gotta go”.
Seawind, Privilege, Antares,Lagoon and Leopard were great hosts.
Funny you say that. I tried to get on their boat when I was there last and the same thing happened. Shame... ~Seth
Their loss, if they can't spare the time to talk or show off their work, they're missing out on customers. Poor customer services kills sales.
3 years ago when I was interested in switching to a cat I called Balance and months ahead of the boat show, they Set up an appointment,and they gave me all the time I wanted and answered all my questions until I was tired. And they were very patient with me, they were not pushy salesman. As I was stalling when the pandemic hit and I wasn’t sure about spending a lot of money. This boat show of 2021 was crazy busy,Balance sold a lot of boats this past weekend.
Your comment about her saying I’m busy, I gotta go, I was probably standing there right beside you, LOL it was crazy, a mass of people wanting to climb on boats. But I’m sure if you call them today they would be happy to set up a time for you.
@@sydshuler1941 I’m sure that Balance makes a great boat and the sales and service are above average.
However, at a boat show I feel that they should expect and have a plan for getting a large number of prospective buyers on one of their boats.
The “walk up” clients probably outnumber those with appointments or those putting a deposit down. In fact, it would probably be easier if they took the very serious buyers to a private room nearby and talked details, then set up a private or semi-private time for them to get on the boat again and answer questions/close the deal.
I understand these shows are not perfect situations and things are fluid. I was just disappointed that they made little effort/plans to handle a situation that they knew years in advance was going to arise.
Balance had hull #1 of their new 482 at the show and there are many that wanted to see it and the new 526. I was able to pre register and get an extensive tour from Phil B. They are super nice but can not accommodate all the demand to see the boats....and apparently all those who want to buy in the near term
Hey Guys! Great information and well presented. My fantasy dream boats are be HH50, Balance 526, and Outremer 55 because I want comfort as well as performance. This is your home. Some of the others are too minimalist for my liking and I don't want to weigh every pound that goes on board for an extra knot or two. My reality boat however is a new Leopard 42. Looks like I'll be cruising "SV Honeymoon" style. Feel fortunate to be able to just get out on the water regardless of what it's in. Cheers and thanks for the great videos!
The best boat is the one you have! Go sailing!!! :)
Good video. Now, six months later, I would double check a lot of your info on the Windelo 50. You called it out for displacement without any discussion of the unique basalt-fiber material that is the primary hull material (which is actually a lot lighter than fiberglass). In fact, you called it out for the reported light displacement, and used the number in your graph for their heaviest model (not actually the Sport). Now that there are more than half a dozen of these out on the water, we know it's reported displacements were very accurate. It's also worth noting that the Windelo 50 Adventure and Yachting models actually have more cubic footage of storage than the Outremer you were making the video from. You also questioned its range as well without noting the hydrogeneration aspects of their electric propulsion and power generation. Basically, there's a bunch of very good reasons it ended up being nominated (alongside the Outremer 55) for the European Boat of the Year - Bluewater Cruiser category. Maybe give it another look.
A lot of work and thought went into this video. The only thing I can compare it to is the Ruby Rose 2 where Nick & Terysa explained their choices and why they made them. They did such a good job that Seawind now has a 4 year backlog on orders for the type. I totally agree with Nick that he does not need a Genset because the 200 amp alternators on his engines will charge his batteries as they leave their anchorages. Of course, because they are not sailing with those three beautiful sea monkies you two are causing you to make different choices. I love your channel for it never fails to entertain.
Seth & Elizabeth your channel continues to deliver and inspire us all in lock down. Great top 10 shoot out and hopefully off the back of this there may be a few other top 10 reviews. (When you have the spare time Seth). My question as a Dad of 3 young boys currently 5, 3 & 1 who is keen to potentially buy a new boat in about 3-4 years time with my wife. What would recommend in the 50-60ft range that can still be managed shorthanded and meets both you and your families needs. I would be interest to see if both of you would choose the same boat?
It depends on your budget. Elizabeth would tell you to buy the KC54, but I would tell you to look at the Outremer 55 or (for a faster boat) the HH55. All incredible boats! ~Seth
This is just what i needed to see. Me and my wife are looking for a boat. We have tried a few this summer. Not easy to rent Cats when there are so few of them in Norway. We have tried a Lagoon 42 and 46. Wanted to try/charter a Outremer 4X but covid put a stopper for that.
I was hoping that you would have added the Outremer 55, 4X and 5X. Since you are familiar with the Outremer family. A 4X is not a family friendly Cat but for just two people i think it would be enough. And you shouldent be to afraid of high seas in a 48 ft cat.
I bet youre wife would just love the new Outremer 55..... hehe. It is just out of this world when it comes to comfort and preformance.
But its nice to see what else is out there and get a sailers honest opinion.
I dig the Windelo. The “yachting” version should be way less sparse. There are no 2 x 1,000kg engines, so 12.5 could be doable. 4Kw solar on the 50’ I believe. Some solar behind the biminy would be great. Oh and there is no tent land on the Windelo. All hard enclosed, no maintenance.
Great video. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. What do you think about the Outremer 55. It also comes with this new helm.
New in this area and exploring . . . . So tnx for this informative and entertaining vid. I dug into the Windelo today at boot Dusseldorf and I loved what I discovered. I think your information can be expanded a little, like:
- it is light due to light motors and the used materials.
- there is a diesel powered generator on board, standard.
- but, while sailing the batteries are recharged by the screws that are 'propelloring'. Offcourse solar power is an option that makes this boat completely selfsufficient.
- there is a number of possibilities for the shape of the interieur, including the outside diningtable you would like. In fact, the grade of customising possibilities is very high.
- I found that there was a lot of storage.
- the building materials are basalt and recycled plastics. That makes the hulls very stiff what boosts the performance.
- the model is 'tweeked' and the new models are more 'flowy' and less 'boxy'. Although, what you call 'boxy' looks robust and efficient to me, and I like that look.
I have not sailed it yet, but I will and am very curious how that will be. I think you might like to adjust your opinion on this one a bit ; )
Thx again for your insights. Keep up the good work.
Thank you for clarifying, I just wanted to write that myself because a lot of specs were misinterpreted in the vid. Maybe due to the lack of info at that time or maybe due the lack of really looking into things and trying to understand. I personally think that the Windelo concept is one of the most intriguing approaches towards the next generation.
@@SenpaiSchuda hear hear :D Totally agree
Hey Liz, In answer to your question about 2 helms. When sailing I like to sit to windward so that I can see the mainsail and telltales. When docking, and you dont have the option of docking to starboard, the portside helm is also appreciated but not essential. I think your O51 finds a happy compromise, with tillers on either side when you really want the full on, wind in your face experience , with perfect visibility of the sails and the waves (I dont like racing unless I can see sails and water in front of me)but you also have the single wheel for the time you are cruising without the autopilot on. My only negative on the O51 helm position is lack of sun protection, and I would hate to raise the goose neck.. If Im going to have weather protection for the helm (and I would) I would try and design it without raising the goose-neck. Seth, do you think that is possible?
The Australian based designers of Grainger, Schionning and of course Crowther were all talking about all the qualities Seth is now advocating back in the 80's. These designers pulled the French manufactures toward their design philosophy's, but at some stage the market flipped and chased the Lagoon and Leopards. Great to see the market moving back in the opposite direction where the main propulsion are the sails and not the engines. Thanks Seth for a thoughtful and considered set of boat reviews.
Yes agree, Crowther's stint with Catana really supercharged the French performance cat industry
Tell this to VPLP, Lombard, Barreau-Neumann, Nivelt, Lerouge and other equally talented French multihull designers.
@@ozolliYou don't know what you are talking about - those Aussie designers @benjaminperrett588 mentioned were leading the way for the whole industry many decades ago and those designers you mentioned learnt from them, not the other way around. Learn your history and get your facts straight before trying to correct someone like @benjaminperrett588 who knows EXACTLY what they're talking about.
@@ApprenticeGM Well I just happen to work with all of them in this industry since 1988, so almost the last 4 decades, but I don't know what I'm talking about.
@@ozolli If you talk to those French designers and ask them who their influencers were, who mentored them, whose designs they studied and learnt from, and whose philosophies they adopted and built on, they will mention those Aussie performance cat designers. So no, you don't know what you are talking about . . . all modern performance cat designers are standing on the shoulders of those pioneers and giants. So give credit where it's due.
Learned a ton. Great video!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Amazing episode, very interesting and helpful. If you had the opportunity, would you go for the forward cockpit layout?
Love the inputs.... Thank you...
This was a spectacular video in regards to showcasing your individual areas of professionalism and perspectives. Generally fine job in showing the successes of your marriage. Looking forward to some opportunity where our paths cross on shores of the Cape at some point.
Pretty sure any captain will tell you that tools and spare parts don't count as part of 'their' stuff :-)
Thankyou for the video, this type of information is very important to future buyers of the catamarans. One thing you may what to have a think about next time is the waiting time from manufacturers before a customer can actually have the boat of her / his dreams due to i was watching another youtube channel about the Outremer 55 which is very popular
We wanted to put that in but given the boat show is happening right now we would have outdated info immediately. I think A LOT of boats are being sold this weekend!
Hi Seth and Liz, Great video as always, you have really done your homework here in the comparisons and stats. With most of the points that you liked on the various models along with price and performance I would think that the new Outremer 55 would stack up pretty well against any of the others. Just my thoughts.
Bill
Interesting examples. Finding that balance especially when sailing with family.
Great video as always and really helpful to have your reflection and experienced view ! Interesting the displacement discussion. Probably similar to the automotive sector in the sense that the value is probably accurate but the conditions not well standardized which leaves room for discreet optimization during evaluation / testing. BTW, have you weighted yours?
Yes, and it's not even close to the disclosed weight. The scales could have been off, but I would say that Outremer are cheating a little on Light Displacement.
@@TheSailingFamily 🤣😂
Great video on production catamarans. If I had that sort of money I would also include the Schionnings and other types of Australian performance designs, although they are normally custom built.
Great job on the comparisons. I really like the Balance , the helm is genius if your cruising, and it's just enough of a racer and not to much of a cruiser, but ideal for cruising. I can't imagine doing any long crosses on the cats with exposed helms, in fact can't even imagine casual sailing Caribbean with those helms. The sun and wind would be really unhealthy and terribly uncomfortable. Balance gets my vote.
I also like very much the Balance's helm, but I have also a doubt about it: even if I know that that cat is designed around the helm so even in the well protected down position you still have unobstructed view, you can see the 4 corners of the boat, I am not sure that night time with people and lights in the main cabin the helmsman can watch trough the cabin glasses so efficiently. That told I am not sure that my doubt is sound, I would like very much to have an opinion about it from a owner or someone that has a real cruising experience on that vessel.
To me, as a cruising sailor, the aft helms are not a problem. I think most people don’t have an idea of just how little time is spent at the wheel on passage. My first passage on our Cat was 1500nm. The only helm time was anchoring or coming into our slip. Otherwise, Otto had the helm. It does give you good sight lines down the amas, and anchoring you need to be able to communicate with the deck crew. Sun protection sailing is important, but much more time is spent doing other things than at the helm. Really, just a matter of preference.
Helm position is one of the most important design challenges on Catamarans. With racing monohulls there is an intuitive place for dual helms at the outboard stern portion of the boat, but for performance catamarans it is hard to cover that area adequately.
The elevated helm concept is good in practice, but it raises the gooseneck/boom. Even on the Balance the Gooseneck needs to be raised to avoid crash jibe dangers, and there is only one helm so you're unable to steer to the telltales on a port tack. So while the swing helm is a novel concept, and it eliminates the need for a bimini, it's still not a perfect solution.
I think if you are going to raise the gooseneck anyway, you might as well embrace the solution and put a bimini over the helm so you're not looking through a boat to steer in the dark/rain. And ideally you would put two helms there to see the tell tales on either tack. The only disadvantage is the visual looks of a bimini, but this is the most functional approach (ie HH50).
It's interesting to see that Outremer has taken the swing helm a step further with the O55. On that boat there is enough space to allow the helm to swing to the outboard stern edge (avoiding the need to raise the gooseneck), or inside the protection of the cockpit. I think it's a better design than the Balance, but unfortunately not a feature on our Outremer 51.
It's a tough design challenge and an important consideration factor when buying a boat - so I am glad we are talking about this! ~Seth
@@TheSailingFamily Helm position is really hard to solve on a catamaran. There is no perfect solution.
The elevated helm with bimini not only spoils the looks, but also raises the center of effort of the main (which has many downsides including more leeway and more heel for a given power, and probably lower pointing to wind) and also wastes the airflow under the boom. So it is less efficient, though it makes for arguably the best visibility.
Aft helms have good visibility, but are arguably too exposed.
Helms at the aft of the pilothouse/salon bulkhead are an interesting compromise, but lack visibility to one side unless dual helm. In a sense the Balance is a variation on this, but adds an elevated helm position. Some Australian cats place the wheel where one can peer either over the coachroof or around the side of it, and this is also in interesting compromise. And often those allow a view through the salon windows too, pilothouse style.
Front helms have good visibility forward and easy and efficient access to lines at the mast, but can be wet and the forward cockpit is somewhat of a swamping risk. The new Windelo catamarans have an interesting partially enclosed front helm that is neither Gunboat nor Chris White.
The swing helms on the new Outremer 55 are a good compromise, but still a bit exposed aft.
The reality for long passages though is that most people "helm" from inside the salon with the autopilot, as William mentions. Given that, an aerodynamically more efficient lower boom is probably a better optimization overall for a cruiser than a raised helm.
@@TheSailingFamily All of the issues, that you just raised, are simply solved on the Windelo, which you shamefully then only downed in your comments, and entirely with slander and nonsense!
Super informative, thanks !!
Thanks for the fantastic video. My wife and I have bought the new Leopard 42. I was thinking of all the same things as you speed and build she liked the roof lounge. My compromise was if that gets us out cruising the world I can start with a little comfort. The new L42 is the first no wood all vacuum infused foam core construction built in two molds by Leopard. So I think you are right that fast cats are moving into luxury but also over the next few year production cats will start to change and switch build technologies to increase performance. It is just the two of us so a 42 is going to be a nice size and a good start for our live aboard adventure. That said I would buy the HH50 or HH50 OC. I do like the Balance and we looked at 442 but the wait is 2024 and like you I prefer the open cockpit salon. We start our adventure next year so thanks again for sharing your adventure.
Hey, you made the right purchase! And frankly, you have the right attitude. We have met too many solo sailors out there that didn't listen to their wives and the boat pulled them apart. Good on you for making her happy! You're going in the right direction. :) ~S
In the price range, there are a few custom builds that I would consider as well. David DeVilliers has an amazing design, built in marine grade aluminum. Also Garcia now makes an Explocat which is amazing. These are go anywhere cats in the same price range. More bang for your buck in my opinion.
I agree. Aluminium is definitely something to consider. I do think though that the Explocat is fantastic but not really performance due to its weight.
@@carldb7374 Yes, not as fast, but go anywhere (almost)
Really great video. Thanks for sharing!
Glad you enjoyed it!
At the moment i follow Cat Greatcircle, a couple that just took delivery of their 3rd cat, a outremer 55 to sail around the world. They have exposed helms but i see them mostly keeping watch at the forward nav station, do you do the same or do you take watch at the helm? Btw, they are still in the med, so no big crossings yet andvthey might change it. Thanks for the great vids and grtz from holland.
Great video. My top 3 are:
1. HH50
2. HH OC50
3. Balance 526
Or my true dream boat the HH55 😀😀
But also do like the ‘go anywhere’ option of the Garcia 52 Explocat, still got reasonable performance but pretty bullet proof 👍
Thanks much for the review. A problem with fully opening front windows is that if they're not properly closed when under way can let in seawater which can damage the interior, electronics, etc. Worst case, if a wave hits, it can swamp the boat. That's why many boats such as HH and Balance only have a small opening portlight in front.
Quite informative guys. What's your thoughts on comfort and performance trimarans compared to catamarans?
I sadly think that yes, you need to buy a 60 foot trimaran to get the same living space as a 45 foot catamaran. For us, as a cruising family with three kids, it makes zero sense. But if all you want to do is race or it's just the two of you, it could work.
Thanks folks I learnt something new today!
Thanks for the summary and all the insides.
I’m quite happy to hear that the OC50 will be available with daggerboards but unfortunately I found no information about this upgrade somewhere else.
Would you be so kind to share where I can find some information about the upgrade.
Thanks in advanced.
When I talked to Paul, the Kiwi CEO for HH, he told me the Daggerboards were in development with Morrelli & Melvin and available on the next boat. And the EcoDrive (electric hybrid) will also be available. If you talk to someone in sales they should tell you the same?
I am a HH50 fan, but I'm curious on what your take is on a performance trimaran and have you ever sailed on one.
Great video, for my the Balance gets my vote, they have been backdrops on my computers for some years now. I like the HH50 but the hulls are really skinny. The balance makes good use of the bridge deck to make the hills feel bigger by using a transverse bed. And then using the full width in the stern for a massive master heads.
Thanks for sharing!
Balance 526 cockpit area has changed with the newer versions and then the 482 has also a wider sliding door system
The Outremer 55 that has just been launched last year has some impressive living space.
Between these two it's hard to make the right choice. If money was not an option then Kinetic 54
Just picked up your channel an from a complete novice, I would ask your advice on a lot of things.
Like the kids safety and the getting up the stairs in a emergency. Never even thought about “ dry” weight ? So adding 5 or more tons of gear etc is highly important when considering load on the mast, especially in heavy weather or worse.
Thanks for sharing guys with the experience an knowledgeable food for thoughts.
Fair winds
Paul 0059 gmt Uk cheers
Thanks for amazing information. I would buy HH50 it seems really good for sailing around the world
Good choice!
I know you're taking cats that compare with Archer but 51'is a big cat. Seawind have a 38 and the new 45' 1300s that Ruby Rose are building. The new seawinds take designs to new places and finally you talk about the closed doorway as a negative but it's the opposite. Seawindd doors winch up and stow completely out of the way making the cockpit and salon into one continuous space . I've delivered one of these and nobody else makes a boat with a more livable salon / cockpit
The Seawind 1600 doesn't have an open cockpit like the smaller models. Unless the reviews I saw didn't demonstrate that feature or it's an option that needs to be ordered.
I think I said this before, the smile you have when sailing got me to buy the nautitech open 46. (Not on your list of but faster than what I was going to buy) 8.5 tons, 91 sqm (but self taking jib is sort of a handicap - I will sail with a code 0) Also way less money. I also watch closely and notice you you put solar panels on the trampoline. I am going to do that instead of having a solar arch which adds weight. (And put those same panels on the dingy when on passage)
Great video, thanks! What do you think of the recent trend for the forward cockpit/seating just aft of the tramp? I saw a Leopard 45 (at the Annapolis boat show) and a couple boats in your review with this. While a cool concept, based on your offshore experience, could the cockpits fill up and load the bow in foul weather/heavy seas? Another vlog called it the bow swimming pool.
I like the idea on a nice day, but would HATE going forward on a rough one. If I had to choose, I think the HH50 has the best helm option. Two helms to steer from, huge spaces for two people to sit and fully protected with good visibility. You can handle all the lines without getting wet.
Have a look at sailing Sisu on you tube they have done 20000nm on their Leopard 45 including from Cape Town all the way up straight to the med which is an extremely tough sail. They have never had problems with the forward cockpit
Very educational and entertaining.
The only reason I watched this was because it was from you! I don't think I'll ever be able to afford a new cat.. so used is my focus.. but this was super informative and I got a lot out of it. Thank you!
We couldn't (and probably still can't) either. But what's exciting is that all these boats will be used someday soon! And that means it's very interesting to us to see this field developing and getting better and better. And especially important to look at build quality to see which boats will last the longest on the used market!
The OC50 seems like a lot of boat for the money. Any reason for not including the Outremer 55? The O55 seems to have come up with a really great interior/exterior configuration.
That was very informative Thank you Guys... For me 482 Balance twin owners hulls yeah not 50+ feet but close lol
Nice summary guys. I’m biased being a Nautitech 542 owner but I believe it should be there. (PS - the sail area of main and headsail of N542 is actually 152m2 if you select the square top option) I inspected the Seawind 1600 before ordering the 542 and compared their polars and found them to be nearly identical. Certainly if 220nm days are the goal then we regularly achieve this. I’m also confused as to why so many forums have an issue with exposed helms? We find that when on passage we just use the autopilot and so long as a boat has a forward facing nav station there is no need to be outside unless you are wanting to feel the wind in your hair. I would have loved a video like this when we were looking so well done mate - great unbiased resource. Hope to say hello on the east coast Oz over Summer time.
I think it’s such a cool boat. Why don’t they have daggerboards?! It could be a cool contender. Are the hulls quite wide?
@@TheSailingFamily i agree on the dagger boards - although I also try not to sail upwind when cruising if I can get away with it! I’m feeling a drag race coming on if we see you guys over Summer in Sydney!! (:
Great video...it felt much shorter than 51 minutes. I'd have liked to see the Outremer 55 (best salon in my opinion), instead of the MC50, since the KC54 was included in the comparison (probably my favourite one overall). One that I'm dying to see a long review on is the Explocat52.
Seth is definitely staying in the boat industry job wise, methinks.
I can definitely see the advantages of the forward helm for sailing. You get a fantastic view both forward and of the sails and all of your controls are in one place. However, for a cruiser I can see three massive problems for cruising. Firstly they take up an absolute tonne of space (seriously you could fit an entire kitchen in the place of one of these), secondly as they're essentially unusable in foul weather you need an entire backup helm and lastly if you need to adjust lines in foul weather you have the choice of either going out the front door (in which case you risk getting seawater into the boat) or going up the side of the boat (which is risky).
Overall if I had a racer or something massive (like the Atlantic 72) I'd go for a forward helm in a heartbeat. But for those of us trapped in the land of the living the trade off just doesn't seem worth it.
Balance is my dream boat. The new 482 (that has its first public showing in Annapolis actually, afaik) was able to get rid of the center column and has a very wide, open space that unites the cockpit and the saloon.
How would you rate the interior built quality of the 482 compared to other production catamarans?
@@raimondobuehler9111 i am not in the industry. So I can't claim - not by far - that I've experienced all, or even many, of boats on the market.
But based on my research I'd say they're top notch. I'd go as far as saying best in (price) class. I really like the design. They made a ton of smart design and engineering choices. For example: the 482 is the only boat that can offer a fresh breeze from open hatches in the main cabin, without risking rain, or a burglar, coming in because they use a forward sail locker as a lock.
I also love the huge windows in the aft cabins, making it feel really airy. Basically... They took an already excellent product (the 526) and responded it even more. It gives me a lot of confidence that the team continues to iterate and improve.
I can't wait for reviews of the 482 they brought to Annapolis to come out. Hopefully at least one of the channels will do it.
Very well done!
I loved it!!! So so so good.
Very good presentation of the 50 performance cats. HH get my vote. Do you think the HH55 with the forward Helm is a good choice for one hand sailing?
Positive vibes ;) Give your opinion on FULL electric boat as global travel boat. For sure Silent 55 is superb as living place with full electric supply for anything . Solar roof and modern lithium batteries ( no sales just Kite) seams like good fit to go around a world and keep coast on sight ...BUT cross the oceans ??? If diesel used for generator for sure it work, its proven, but then you look on diesel costs. So consider you get older and excitement will fade a little from wind in hair ;) its life... will you consider Full electric global cruiser ? What could be your requirements for such boat ?
Seth / Elizabeth, great video, questions raised and presentation. Also, you have a great family and are wonderful parents. Now that you have dropped anchor at HH, I aim guessing doing the additional videos on construction materials / methods is not going to happen. Bummer, it is so hard to find true details on all the brands. Outremer seems to be getting they story out best with their training, support and a number of strong UA-camrs telling the story. Possibly with the Wynns and your marketing HH will get better told. Windelo looks real interesting but no one telling the story and light on the marketing. Of course has to be hard for brands to tell the story when they are sold out 2-3 years in advance.
Ahhh the life of parents with boys!!! 🤣🤣🤣 good on you for leaving that in the video!
hehe
Great informational video and wonderful family, sharing amazing adventures. Truly living the dream(s) many people in the world have. I’m sure it’s not all peaches & cream but the experience and memories you guys are making will certainly last a lifetime of reflection
Thanks so much!
Thank you for this very interesting video (as usual)! We've just purchased a cruising cat (a Lagoon 46 called "Sail Away" which was delivered last July). Not at all a performance cat indeed but very confortable. Hope to see you at sea one day (you would be in front of us for sure... :-)).
Congrats! Great boats!!!
Great video, very thorough and thoughtful. I was confused by a couple of the weights. You said that the LD of the Seawind was heavier than many of the boats but it was listed at 11.2 t 10:27 . Then, you said the Outremer was a lighter boat but it was also listed at 11.2t 15:18 . They are roughly the same size so I thought this was odd. Or, are you disputing the Seawind weight as not being accurate? Thanks!
Turns out the Seawind weight was terribly inaccurate (they made it heavier). I fixed it in the next video. Thanks for watching!
HH55 is my dream catamaran. But, the best I’ll ever be able to afford is a small mono. Luckily we have UA-cam to see when we can’t afford.
never say never my friend if you really want it you will achieve.
The HH 50 or even the new HH 44 if you ever do a review of that one. This was a very well done review of these boats. I would like to know more about what the back ground about the demise of Gunboats.
Would love to hear more of your thoughts on the age old helm position debate. I have a Nautitech open 40 and love the aft helms. Standing over the rudder with very direct cable steering, great views of the sails and the water and yet low and protected inside the hull is a major win for the boat. Other than when I enjoy steering the pilot steers and I’m close to either helm or the nav station. Docking is of course amazing too. Do you feel the need to have hands on or close to the wheel a lot of the time? Perhaps other aft helms like the Catana feel precarious in all but calm conditions, but the Nautitech helms are down low at cockpit and saloon level and very protected. Would love to hear your thoughts…
I think that's a subjective one. Some people love to be exposed and out on the edge. We prefer to be covered from the sun and rain. I think Balance, the Outremer 55 and new HH44 are all onto something with the swing helms idea. This gives you the best of both worlds. Now you need to decide if you want the helm to swing into your cockpit and take up space, or swing at the back so the cockpit is uninterrupted. I'm really liking the HH44 design with the folding down seats, personally. What do you think?!
@@TheSailingFamily I have limited experience with no passages longer than 48 hours on my boat, so take it with a grain of salt, but while the swing helm seems neat I worry about all the complexity going into the boat with systems as critical as steering. Again my point is that when you want to steer then the conditions are probably favourable. If they aren't then you probably don't want to steer and the pilot will (most of the time underway). I appreciate that there is a 3rd category for when you don't want to steer but you need to for some reason, but that seems rare and not worth compromising other things for unless it's a matter of safety. An exposed helm could mean unsafe in a seaway or it could just mean you get wet or you need a hat. The Nautitech Open helms are very safe imo, but you might get wet if you had to be out there when you didn't want to be. The direct connectivity to the rudders, view of the sails and water, connection to the cockpit and ease of docker are the win for me.
I wonder how the Knysna 500 SE compares. Problem is they all come standard with generators, watermaker, large battery bank, etc so may not look well on " light displacement" .
I got the impression you would go for the HH50 / OC50 boats if you had the option. They do look pretty!
What do you think about Neel Trimarans, like the 51?
Hi! Thanks for this amazing video, and on my opinion HH OC 50 is right in the middle between price and comfort. I would choose this boat!
Good choice!
Thank you for the info
Two items I like about the Seawind 1600 are the flush deck daggerboards and the retractable rudders!
I forgot to mention the rudders, although are you really going to need to raise them often? The flush deck worries me though as I like to be reminded when my boards are down! Don't want to hit anything with those lowered or you could find yourself with a crack in your hull... ~Seth
@@TheSailingFamily
True, the decks are atheistic. But the rudders are interesting because you can easily service and replace accordingly. Overall just very well thought out.
I like your boat better than all of the rest. It just looks better than the modern square box designs. I agree for the most part on pretty much everything you've said. There are several other performance catamarans such as Schionning available and I'm shocked that you didn't mention them in your list. I hope that you do a video about the other boats. I think my favorite design that I've seen is the Schionning Arrow and the Schionning G-Force. For two people I'm thinking that the best boat to get would be somewhere between 45 and 50 feet. Out of all the boats I've seen, the following video has everything I'm looking for in design and layout. I love most everything about what this boat has except for the way some of the lines are run which is supper easy to correct. I've done a lot of research on the performance of Ocean Volt electric engines and have come to the conclusion that you don't need a gen set if your sailing in the tropics and want to be on anchor every night. Sailing UMA has a full electric boat and have the latest and greatest Ocean Volt with re-gen and it works supper well even considering how far North on the globe they are right now. I'm thinking the best way to go is a full electric boat except for the dinghy and BBQ. White gas would probably be the best for the BBQ but I'm not 100% sure. I also think having a wind generator despite the noise is a good idea. ua-cam.com/video/laBrLA7EKY4/v-deo.html
If you are looking at smaller boats and want one with electric motors, be sure to check out the HH44 and OC version. I think they are building the best hybrid option out there. And yes, we want to do a video about custom boats too. But it's hard to compare as each are so different. But yes, it's on the list!
Hey guys. Thanks for sharing this kind of information. Would love to hear your opinion on the Knysna500SE. Probably not really in the Performance Cruiser Category, but certainly a we'll build bluewater yacht. Also really good value for money in my opinion.
We've never really looked at it because it's not a performance cruising cat. But I know they have a good reputation!
Would be interested to hear your opinion on the seawind 1260 I think and the 1370
What about Sunreef 50 or 60 as a world cruiser? Would u consider it if money wasn't an issue? Would it be viable for a couple who wants to sail the world without a crew? Even though money for a crew isn't a problem, i feel it takes the privacy and connection I would like to have with my partner/family in this kind of adventure. Would love to have your take on this. I loved the HH 52 forward cockpit btw. But if u could take a step forward in the catamaran game as a home to cruise the world sailing, Would you think this is a viable option? Bear in mind, I would like to be mainly sailing it and use motor as less as possible. Specially talking about the Sunreef 60 for a Bluewater cruiser as a couple. Thanks so much and wish all the best for you guys, hope we can meet someday. Would LOVE to have you guys take on this... Cheers!
The Sunreef is really a motor-sailor, meaning it cannot sail up wind, cannot sail in light wind and you will find that you use your motors a lot to get around. This is probably a great boat if you are stationed in one place (the BVI or Greece, for example), but as a world cruiser I have NEVER seen one making the rounds without a captain and crew. It's just a different boat for a different need IMO.
Great video & very interesting
Thanks for the visit
I’m going through this decision right now! However probably in the 45 foot range not 50+. So very interested in views on Balance 442, (482 ideal but bit too expensive), Outremer 45, Seawind 1370 (although I don’t like the helms on that one) and new Nautitech 44. Probably some others but these seem to be best fit for the performance cruiser in the sub $1m range. Would love your thoughts.
Be sure to check out the all new Parallel Hybrid HH44. They make an OC version of that boat too and I think it's a game changer for this size segment. Lots of future ideas like the electric motors with a diesel backup to shaft drive regen propellers, dual swing helms, 5m carbon daggerboards, 3.2kW of solar, flip up front windows, etc. Very cool boat to consider. I'd bet it becomes Boat of the Year in 2022. www.hhcatamarans.com/hh44
@@TheSailingFamily thanks Seth. I wasn’t aware of the HH44, looks great. It’s strange as I spoke to the CEO and visited the OC50 at the Cannes show just a month ago. OC50 was too big/expensive for us which we told him but he didn’t mention the new 44. I wonder how the prices compare to others in that size range given the electric setup. I’ll get back in contact and find out more. Otherwise we loved the OC50. Felt more cruiser than racer but the performance stats and claims say otherwise. The guy also told us that it only came with Keels but from what you say maybe that’s changed. It’s pretty custom so I guess they’ll do it if you pay. Many thanks for the video.
@@TheSailingFamily And you said there wasn't a perfect boat...That HH44 hybrid is it. The HH & OC 44 have a transom that folds down like all the new monos. FINALLY!
Great video!
Glad you enjoyed it
Great vid! Question: Salon or Saloon? I’m not a cruiser sailor, but that has always puzzled me…Thx!
I think it's a french word, so Salon?
Excellent !!!
Thanks for the great comparison and insight.
Two questions though:
1. Why did you make the green line on the graph round and disqualify all boats with a sail area below 135m2?
2. Why did you discard all smaller boats like Outremer 45 (sailing la vagabonde), ORC42 (winner of the last ARC), C-Cat 37 etc. that are in the - for many people more reasonable - 300-900'000 USD price range and still are very ocean capable and fully equipped performance cruisers?
Good questions. The green line is the mean line average and shows that as the boats get heavier the sail area is increased to try and cover the increased drag that these boats have. As for smaller boats, we can't compare every boat made, so we made this a Top 10 of the 50 foot range, which we consider the ideal size for a cruising family. We might do another video someday on the smaller boats. Does that help!? ~Seth
@@TheSailingFamily Yes, thanks. We always enjoy watching.
@@nicolaistuder4213 Thanks for watching and commenting!
I like either the Balance or if the money wasn't an issue, the HH50 ( I am a sucker for carbon fibre) As for the Balance, the door may be small but with the full opening windows on either side there is plenty of ventilation available. Is there some other reason you prefer a wide door, Seth?
We just like the indoor outdoor lifestyle a wide door allows. The whole reason we're on a catamaran and not a monohull is that we want to see the environment around us and feel like we are in it (and not "inside"). Plus we know from experience that it makes the entire living space feel larger. Just our opinion. I guess it's a subjective one as many people like these 526 boats!
What about the new outremer 55?
I would go for the HH50 with carbon