Most will try to keep your pay low by not letting you learn enough. Lots of people have big egos and dont want to see others around them catch up to their level. Get your one 12- 18 months experience and move on. Dont even bother asking your current employer to give you a raise. Just move on.
Terrible advice. 12 to 18 months is not long enough to learn from your past self. People who do this don't learn from their mistakes and spread their poor architectural decisions elsewhere. If you have never confronted your old code and say what the heck was I thinking you won't really get better.
I know some people are frustrated with how they’re talking about raises, but after hearing what they said, it makes sense to me. The way they’re talking about transparent pay ladders is a good way to mitigate discriminatory pay gaps. For example, men are more likely to over estimate their abilities, while women are more likely to underestimate their abilities. Men are also more comfortable being assertive and negotiating pay. So you could have a situation where you’re paying some employee more just because they’re more likely to pound on the desk and demand a pay raise, rather than their actual experience and ability. However, they should definitely do their best to match the salaries of the surrounding companies. If the jobs out there are paying a certain amount for 2 years experience, you want to make sure you’re paying your people the same amount by 2 years.
I am so grateful for what you do Don, thank you for these insightful videos. I am currently in a career change from nursing into software development, totally different worlds but I finally found my true passion in the IT world just like my dad. I am currently in the waiting game to start a a coding apprenticeship, so many different emotions. But, your videos have truly helped and truly appreciate hearing different perspectives into the software development world I am about to enter into. Thanks so much 💙
Wow, I just started as a developer and this episode has a lot of useful advice! The bit about "we don't want you leave as much as you think you are going to be fired" really hits home for me, thanks for putting this together!!
Right?? I was even a little surprised to hear that. Honestly, I got lucky finding these 3. They brought nothing but honesty and encouragement from that.
Bad managers is why I left my last dev job. The manager couldn't keep the project scope in place without extending the project schedule. Worked weekends and birthdays. Kept getting to that 10 yard line just to be told that changes were being made to the project.
I would disagree with all these guys. You should always be putting in apps even if happy at current job. Then if cant match salary and enjoy the new work move on. They keep saying you should come to them and ask for a raise first. Why? Then that just lets them find a replacement. They all seem dishonest to me. I am willing to work for minimum wage if I like the company. But I don't want to have to ask them to pay me more. If I do well I want them to decided to pay me well. If not then why not move on to a company that values me more. It makes sense to both parties.
This is one of my favourite interview videos from your channel. Learned a lot and have a clearer vision of future company I am looking for. Thank you Don
That's great to hear! This was one of my favorite conversations too. All 3 of them have so much experience and I feel like they had a lot of great advice to share. I really wish this video had gained more traction..
I am retooling to be in data engineering and this is the most valuable video ever. Job posting requirements contribute towards a lot of confusion and impostor syndrome. I think team leads and hiring managers in the tech industry need to have more hands on with creating job postings. I and a lot of hardworking people who want to join the tech industry get intimidated by job postings and the impersonal job application process, even before they get an interview.
Love the vids man! I've been on the "Software Eng career change" youtube vid path for a few weeks and you are by far one of the most genguine creators in the niche for sure. I went from on the fence to okay its gonna suck but it's okay I can do it, purely from your vids so please keep up the good work!
Good to know Scenery doesn't want to match market with their compensation. I've had a competing offer matched/topped 4 time over the last 10 years now and i'm no wizard. Matching market comp is what companies do if they want to keep the talent they need and have invested on building up.
I’m a new learning developer, but I have been in business for many years. The argument from all 3 guests is very insightful on pay raises. It sounds like they are perpetuating the turnover problem. It’s well known in tech and business in general that these days people who move companies every few years make more than those who stay put. So these guys are saying basically, oh you want more money, then basically your already gone and we won’t even talk about it at that point. Sounds like a great retention policy. No wonder most people have to move around to make more money. 🤦🏼♂️
18:20 "ideally, I would like a junior to stay for 3 years", better fork up 80K annually then id promise to stay(I would not even ask for any raises during those 3 years, smash projects forward and make sure that people feel like its a pleasure to go to work). Also considering their budget that's not even a big difference in the long run.
Exactly. And listen how asking to be compensated for your worth to the company labeled as “threatening”. 25:26 Dress up on video, talk about how you want to help people find the right job for them, yet totally drop the ball on integrity in the relationship. 25 min in and the masks drops, pretty quick.
Don, great video as usual. Amazing, very informative questions. Have you made a video about some of the interview questions that usually come up?? Like, not solving them but talking about them?? I think that would be amazing if you happen to have that info.
Like technical questions? They can vary so much between companies. Feel free to check out this interview to get an idea of what a frontend interview for junior developers can look like: ua-cam.com/video/vomuCMmoNyE/v-deo.html
Brother, thanks a lot for creating very high value content. Thanks a lot man . I am commenting for the first time but I just wanted to let you know that I really appreciate the work you do . Have a good day brother 💯
As a current student of computer engineering starting my career late in life (27) I'm not sure I'll make it as a developer and get hired for a position where I'll actually write code, there are so many requirements, not including work experience that I don't have (frameworks, APIs, testing, Certifications, portfolios, Automation Tools) that I will never see in my University, I'm not sure if it's the right path to take for someone my age, insted of learning about Software Engineering and actually writing code, I spend most of my time studying Physics and redacting pretty looking reports with full APA references just to not fail my classes. It feels like a huge waste of time, I want to write code, but between homework and a full time job, there´s no time.
27 years old is not "late in life." That's such an absurd take, even in a hyper competitive region like Silicon Valley. Don't buy into the meme. At 27 years old you are young. You are a young adult. You are a 20-something. It gets harder at 37 -- if you have a wife, children, and a mortgage. It's very difficult at 47, if you're in the middle of another rewarding career and have a wife, children, and a mortgage. It's super difficult at 57, for all the same reasons -- and more. More responsibilities in your career, you're worried about retirement 10 years away, etc. But at 27? Don't be absurd, man. You're young. If you want to be a computer engineer, study your ass off. If you were starting from scratch today, you'd be a computer engineer at 30/31. That gives you 30-40 years of a full career. If you don't want to study more math and physics and just want to write code? Cool. If you're starting that from scratch today, you'll be making $60k-$90k a year (depending on the job market) as an entry/junior developer within a year. I got my first job in my early 30s as a UI developer, while completing an online degree in computer science. 10 years later and I'm making a six figure salary in an affordable city, and I'm super happy with my life. Don't let Reddit memes scare you aware from an awarding career. And don't do your competition any favors by intimidating yourself out of growth. Pick a path, shut the f*ck up, and grow.
I was kinda in the same boat. Currently 27 and enrolled to college for Computer Science degree but I mostly just want focus on coding (I’ve been coding for a few months by then). I eventually decided to drop and go the self-taught/bootcamp route since it fit more with my goals and timeline. I’m not saying drop out because a part of me does wish I could continue with the CS degree because a lot of those genEd classes would make you a more well rounded professional in the field. But if you’re really passionate and motivated about coding, try learning some code on your own on the side. If you feel college isn’t really working out or aligning with your goals, then there are many other options out there!
My issue with white boarding is how different it is from the actual job lol shortly after every white boarding interview I've ever had I immediately think of better solutions that I end up emailing to the interviewer afterwards. The nerves cloud my thought process in the moment. Unfortunately, I'm sure the interviewer just assumes I googled it and there's no way to prove otherwise.
Sounds like the "argument retort in the shower" conundrum. I think the stress and time goes hard and your mind processes that even aubconsciously after the interview so you can get the eureka moment after. The only solution I think of is train yourself to hopefully get those glimpses faster overtime. Surely hurts, you can't prove it after. 😅
they are like math teachers telling us that they don't care about the answer, and that they care about the method used. turns out, he in fact cared about the answer more than the method.
This is a terrible example because in math the only thing that matters is that you use a method invented by a smart Greek guy 2000 years ago. But never ever use your own way of solving problems.
So the guy says that he's promoting managers internally rather than hire outside the company ( 34:33 ) minutes after shitting on software engineers that ask for a raise (because 'this is what the formula says' your salary should be at 24:58 )... I believe it means he cares more for the managers than for engineers, doesn't that feel wrong in a tech company?
Keyword: feel. It is immoral but from a business-centric standpoint, it is the most optimal way to conduct business. Managers tend to show much resilience and adherence to the business and its culture versus the new hires who will likely jump ship in a couple of years, if that.
you did not ask the important question, why do you want a junior developer to have years of experience and can solve very hard algorithm questions in the interview ? the questions you asked were not important to a junior developer
Most will try to keep your pay low by not letting you learn enough. Lots of people have big egos and dont want to see others around them catch up to their level. Get your one 12- 18 months experience and move on. Dont even bother asking your current employer to give you a raise. Just move on.
Doesn't hurt, especially once you have an offer in tow.
Terrible advice. 12 to 18 months is not long enough to learn from your past self. People who do this don't learn from their mistakes and spread their poor architectural decisions elsewhere. If you have never confronted your old code and say what the heck was I thinking you won't really get better.
主もすザザSuGか指さす具座作さ 2:08 さなな 2:11 やさなやややかこななまかなまなこのなななななながなややさやか😮やややややややさやすやさややさこななざやかやさなかなかなごなくややくくかややかやさかがさなむかくややなやくやこまぬななこながやささややかやくさくややかくやすやさなかがぬ（ゆざささ（なざざ😅😅😊😅😊😅😊😅😅😅😅😅😅 2:19 😅😅 2:19 😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅 2:15 😮 2:15 😅 2:15 2:14 😮 2:14 2:14 😮😮😮 2:12 2:12 😮 2:12 😮 2:12 2:12 2:11 2:11 2:11 😮😮 2:08 😮😮 2:08 2:08 2:08 2:08 2:08 2:08 2:08 2:08 😮 2:08 2:08 😅😅😅😅😅😅 2:07 2:06 😅 2:06 2:06 😅😅😅😅😅 2:05 2:05 😮 2:05 😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮 1:59 1:59 😮😮 1:59 😮 1:57 😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮 1:54 1:54 😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮 1:50 😮😮😮😮😮😮 1:48 😮😮 1:47 😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮 1:42 😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮 1:38 😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮 1:33 😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮 1:28 😮😮😮😮 1:28 😮😮 1:26 😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮 1:24 😮😮😮😮😮😮😮 1:22 😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮 1:20 😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮 1:12 😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮 1:05 1:04 😮😮😮 1:03 😮😮😮 1:03 😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮 1:00 1:00 😮😮😮 0:59 😮😮😮 0:58 😮 0:57 0:57 😮😮 0:57 😮😮😮😅😮😮（さがさざさざそささそさそすすさくさすがすすそざさざさそざすか
I am grateful for these gems of insightful discussion 🙏 Thank you, everyone
I know some people are frustrated with how they’re talking about raises, but after hearing what they said, it makes sense to me. The way they’re talking about transparent pay ladders is a good way to mitigate discriminatory pay gaps. For example, men are more likely to over estimate their abilities, while women are more likely to underestimate their abilities. Men are also more comfortable being assertive and negotiating pay. So you could have a situation where you’re paying some employee more just because they’re more likely to pound on the desk and demand a pay raise, rather than their actual experience and ability. However, they should definitely do their best to match the salaries of the surrounding companies. If the jobs out there are paying a certain amount for 2 years experience, you want to make sure you’re paying your people the same amount by 2 years.
I am so grateful for what you do Don, thank you for these insightful videos. I am currently in a career change from nursing into software development, totally different worlds but I finally found my true passion in the IT world just like my dad. I am currently in the waiting game to start a a coding apprenticeship, so many different emotions. But, your videos have truly helped and truly appreciate hearing different perspectives into the software development world I am about to enter into. Thanks so much 💙
Thanks so much for sharing Natalie. I hope the coding apprenticeship goes well for you.
Where did you get the coding apprenticeship Natalie?
@@eugenekwaka Hey! Thanks for reaching out. The coding apprenticeship I will be doing soon is called Road to hire
Those guys are to good to be true on how an hr should be like
They're doing PR for the companies that they work for now.
man this youtube channel deserves way more views!!!
Wow, I just started as a developer and this episode has a lot of useful advice! The bit about "we don't want you leave as much as you think you are going to be fired" really hits home for me, thanks for putting this together!!
Right?? I was even a little surprised to hear that. Honestly, I got lucky finding these 3. They brought nothing but honesty and encouragement from that.
Wow guys thanks so much for the insight as im trying to be a coder im close to getting the first cert for html and css
I'm not even sure how this hasnt gone viral. Extremely insightful and valuable video.
Thank you. Going viral would be nice.
Just found your channel and am really digging into stuff. Really appreciate your help and info man! No BS is right.
Welcome!
Bad managers is why I left my last dev job. The manager couldn't keep the project scope in place without extending the project schedule. Worked weekends and birthdays. Kept getting to that 10 yard line just to be told that changes were being made to the project.
I would disagree with all these guys. You should always be putting in apps even if happy at current job. Then if cant match salary and enjoy the new work move on.
They keep saying you should come to them and ask for a raise first. Why? Then that just lets them find a replacement. They all seem dishonest to me.
I am willing to work for minimum wage if I like the company. But I don't want to have to ask them to pay me more. If I do well I want them to decided to pay me well. If not then why not move on to a company that values me more. It makes sense to both parties.
This is one of my favourite interview videos from your channel. Learned a lot and have a clearer vision of future company I am looking for. Thank you Don
That's great to hear! This was one of my favorite conversations too. All 3 of them have so much experience and I feel like they had a lot of great advice to share. I really wish this video had gained more traction..
I am retooling to be in data engineering and this is the most valuable video ever. Job posting requirements contribute towards a lot of confusion and impostor syndrome. I think team leads and hiring managers in the tech industry need to have more hands on with creating job postings. I and a lot of hardworking people who want to join the tech industry get intimidated by job postings and the impersonal job application process, even before they get an interview.
Love the vids man! I've been on the "Software Eng career change" youtube vid path for a few weeks and you are by far one of the most genguine creators in the niche for sure. I went from on the fence to okay its gonna suck but it's okay I can do it, purely from your vids so please keep up the good work!
Nice, i come from musical theatre and decided to do engineering too.
Good to know Scenery doesn't want to match market with their compensation. I've had a competing offer matched/topped 4 time over the last 10 years now and i'm no wizard. Matching market comp is what companies do if they want to keep the talent they need and have invested on building up.
Are these formulas immutable or something?
wow thanks for the interview! I hope one 1 day to land a job. Thanks for the tips like always DOn
Glad you like it!
This was incredibly helpful.
I love this channel!! Thank you so much!! Super helpful videos
This is incredibly helpful! Lots of questions answered. Also definitely would love to know what kind of microphone Trevor is using. Impressive!
I've taken so many interviews for purely money reasons. The bottom-right guy was really off-base about that. Overall great discussion though :)
I’m a new learning developer, but I have been in business for many years. The argument from all 3 guests is very insightful on pay raises. It sounds like they are perpetuating the turnover problem. It’s well known in tech and business in general that these days people who move companies every few years make more than those who stay put. So these guys are saying basically, oh you want more money, then basically your already gone and we won’t even talk about it at that point. Sounds like a great retention policy. No wonder most people have to move around to make more money. 🤦🏼♂️
This is exactly what I heard from this talk... I feel you bro
18:20 "ideally, I would like a junior to stay for 3 years", better fork up 80K annually then id promise to stay(I would not even ask for any raises during those 3 years, smash projects forward and make sure that people feel like its a pleasure to go to work). Also considering their budget that's not even a big difference in the long run.
Exactly. And listen how asking to be compensated for your worth to the company labeled as “threatening”. 25:26
Dress up on video, talk about how you want to help people find the right job for them, yet totally drop the ball on integrity in the relationship.
25 min in and the masks drops, pretty quick.
Joshua Fluke & HR Lady for the win on bringing awareness to these dynamics.
Then he says asking for more money, with the leverage on your side, he called that “sneaking up”.
-
The gaslighting is strong with these guys.
Don, great video as usual. Amazing, very informative questions. Have you made a video about some of the interview questions that usually come up?? Like, not solving them but talking about them?? I think that would be amazing if you happen to have that info.
Like technical questions? They can vary so much between companies. Feel free to check out this interview to get an idea of what a frontend interview for junior developers can look like:
ua-cam.com/video/vomuCMmoNyE/v-deo.html
@@DonTheDeveloper thanks a lot!!! Been binge watching your videos lol
Brother, thanks a lot for creating very high value content. Thanks a lot man . I am commenting for the first time but I just wanted to let you know that I really appreciate the work you do .
Have a good day brother 💯
I appreciate that
As a current student of computer engineering starting my career late in life (27) I'm not sure I'll make it as a developer and get hired for a position where I'll actually write code, there are so many requirements, not including work experience that I don't have (frameworks, APIs, testing, Certifications, portfolios, Automation Tools) that I will never see in my University, I'm not sure if it's the right path to take for someone my age, insted of learning about Software Engineering and actually writing code, I spend most of my time studying Physics and redacting pretty looking reports with full APA references just to not fail my classes. It feels like a huge waste of time, I want to write code, but between homework and a full time job, there´s no time.
27 years old is not "late in life." That's such an absurd take, even in a hyper competitive region like Silicon Valley. Don't buy into the meme.
At 27 years old you are young. You are a young adult. You are a 20-something. It gets harder at 37 -- if you have a wife, children, and a mortgage. It's very difficult at 47, if you're in the middle of another rewarding career and have a wife, children, and a mortgage. It's super difficult at 57, for all the same reasons -- and more. More responsibilities in your career, you're worried about retirement 10 years away, etc.
But at 27? Don't be absurd, man.
You're young. If you want to be a computer engineer, study your ass off. If you were starting from scratch today, you'd be a computer engineer at 30/31. That gives you 30-40 years of a full career. If you don't want to study more math and physics and just want to write code? Cool. If you're starting that from scratch today, you'll be making $60k-$90k a year (depending on the job market) as an entry/junior developer within a year.
I got my first job in my early 30s as a UI developer, while completing an online degree in computer science. 10 years later and I'm making a six figure salary in an affordable city, and I'm super happy with my life.
Don't let Reddit memes scare you aware from an awarding career. And don't do your competition any favors by intimidating yourself out of growth.
Pick a path, shut the f*ck up, and grow.
I was kinda in the same boat. Currently 27 and enrolled to college for Computer Science degree but I mostly just want focus on coding (I’ve been coding for a few months by then). I eventually decided to drop and go the self-taught/bootcamp route since it fit more with my goals and timeline.
I’m not saying drop out because a part of me does wish I could continue with the CS degree because a lot of those genEd classes would make you a more well rounded professional in the field. But if you’re really passionate and motivated about coding, try learning some code on your own on the side. If you feel college isn’t really working out or aligning with your goals, then there are many other options out there!
This is the best video I have seem fr great information 👏
My issue with white boarding is how different it is from the actual job lol shortly after every white boarding interview I've ever had I immediately think of better solutions that I end up emailing to the interviewer afterwards. The nerves cloud my thought process in the moment. Unfortunately, I'm sure the interviewer just assumes I googled it and there's no way to prove otherwise.
Sounds like the "argument retort in the shower" conundrum. I think the stress and time goes hard and your mind processes that even aubconsciously after the interview so you can get the eureka moment after. The only solution I think of is train yourself to hopefully get those glimpses faster overtime. Surely hurts, you can't prove it after. 😅
Thanks!
Thank you!
they are like math teachers telling us that they don't care about the answer, and that they care about the method used. turns out, he in fact cared about the answer more than the method.
This is a terrible example because in math the only thing that matters is that you use a method invented by a smart Greek guy 2000 years ago. But never ever use your own way of solving problems.
So the guy says that he's promoting managers internally rather than hire outside the company ( 34:33 ) minutes after shitting on software engineers that ask for a raise (because 'this is what the formula says' your salary should be at 24:58 )... I believe it means he cares more for the managers than for engineers, doesn't that feel wrong in a tech company?
Keyword: feel. It is immoral but from a business-centric standpoint, it is the most optimal way to conduct business. Managers tend to show much resilience and adherence to the business and its culture versus the new hires who will likely jump ship in a couple of years, if that.
Great video, thanks for sharing
Don is the man!
No, you're the man Davis.
Terriffficcc thank you 🙏
you did not ask the important question, why do you want a junior developer to have years of experience and can solve very hard algorithm questions in the interview ? the questions you asked were not important to a junior developer
1) A college degree
2) 1-3 years of commercial experience