Full Frame VS APSC... Which is better
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- Опубліковано 25 кві 2024
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alright folks, a couple of things to say:
Corrections:
1. the 30mm on apsc is 45mm (close enough in the comparison and the point of that test still stands for it and the MFT.)
2. I said Large Format instead of Medium Format (I dont script so theres that.)
Please dont miss the point of the video. What I am saying is that saying "FF is always better" simply isnt true, that will mislead a lot of people. you get what you pay for. a $5,000 Super35/APSC Camera will out perform a $2000 Full frame camera, which will out perform a $1000 Super35/APSC. there is so much more that goes into a good camera than just the size of the sensor.
If you have a full frame camera that you love, thats great, its probably a great camera and I love that youre out there using it and making cool stuff with it. this video sint about saying one is better than the other, you dont need to defend your camera choices lol, in 2024 there really are no bad cameras coming out. Keep using what you have! Im just here to debunk some myths
It's not the Arrow it's the Indian holding the bow
The heck😂
Indian? Dude.
Let's put brass facts here (refering to the video side):
Low light performance is a boon when it comes to larger sensors if your taking advantage of the dual gain or dual base iso feature that is active during the use of a log profile.
Crop is usually limited to a second base iso of 3200 or 2500 or in some to 2000, which is no slouch and some big boy full frame hybrids are capped at the iso of 3200 as for few exceptions like the Panasonic S5 line, Sony a7iii s or fx3 and canon r5c......etc.
Now using fast primes can combat this as well as shooting in a non cropped mode like 4k down sampled can reduce the noise size and make the footage look clean also can make it easy enough to clean with minor denoise in post.
Also there is the exception of some camera sensors like the Fujifilm offerings that produce filmic grain that lacks the nasty color shifts and digital look in the lower iso spectrum that can be usable and add a bit of character to your footage, or like the bmpc6kpro that also has a similar grain effect.
Now to combat low light lackluster performance, fast primes can be bought that have an f.stop of f1.2 or t1.2
For example viltrox or Siriu have a pro line or nightstalker cine line or sniper series lenses that offer exceptional quality or characteristics paired with autofocus.
Here is where a good speed booster (meta bones)can solve the issue of wanting a versatile zoom lens with a fixed f2.8 for those run and gun gigs, yes the rig is bigger now and it would make sense to just grab a full frame body.
Your pretty much right on the money here.
I would say that currently fullframe now is somewhat more suited for run and gun events where lighting conditions are somewhat suboptimal.
But if you do narrative based work or commercial or even medium productions, or Indi films and small production films.
Your most probably rigging that camera and lighting your scene also using a sound gear.
Any sensor nowadays even the older ones will look jaw dropping if a combination of scene lighting and set dressing plus coherent sound mixing is applied.
It will look cinematic if it's M4/3 ,APSC super 35, fullframe, medium format /large format sensor.
Large sensors offer flexibility when it comes to obtaining exposure in lighting conditions that push the smaller systems to their limit.
At the end
These things are tools
Just pick the right tool for the job
If you light your scenes and can control the elements in your shots, your pretty much golden with any interchangeable lens system.
As for the cinema Bois and pixel peepers.
Well you guys have the budget to hire a crew and grab the best possible cinema camera given that usually the producer negotiates for the funds and budget.
You guys are on a whole another level.
Your lens alone cost as much as a two mirrorless systems with good lenses and monitors.
More power to every shooter out there.
So true! I use aps-c for my job as a videographer and I’ve had some pretty big clients and never had any complaints. The lens is key. Smashed it bro ❤
Thanks dude!
Only found your channel yesterday for the first time and it’s fantastic, so much valuable info. This video was great at explaining the difference in the two. Thank you. Subscribed 😃
Thank you! Glad you liked it
@@thomasjmcclure quick question, what is the light stand and light above your screen?
This video was so detailed and well explained! I’ve been beating my head against the wall if I should go fx30 or fx3. Budget wise fx30 all day, I was just thinking about the future if I wanted to upgrade and what I should do about lenses. Didn’t want to get all crop glass and regret it. But, this just pushed me more in the direction of the fx30 again. Thank you! Just subbed for this video knowledge alone! 🫡
Great advice, Thomas. I would like to add that in the Film industry, Super35 Sensors are still the standard. Super35 sensors are virtually identical in size to an ASPC sensor. Most of the visually amazing movies have been made by smaller sensors. Even if you are using a Full Frame or even a Medium format, you still need to light your scenes, no matter how good the camera is in low light. You need to light and shape your subjects day or night, if you want the cinematic look. you need lighting.
lighting is an integral part to film making, it shapes your subject, improves dynamic range that gives that 3D look, it separates the subject from the background. when you see a low light scene in a movie, wasn't actually low light , the set was bright, very bright, using low iso and high aperture number, then improved further in post.
so the sensor size doesn't matter, because you need lighting regardless of the sensor size your using, of course this only applies to people looking to make high quality videos/film. now sensor size is important if your a private Detective trailing a cheating husband and your hiding in the bushes where it probably wouldn't be a good idea to pull out 60-1000 watt cob light.
Totally agree man, great video!
Thanks man!
How dare you have a rational opinion on the internet!? 😂
Thanks for this one! You are absolutely right, it's mostly about the lenses and not a lot about sensor sizes. In fact, to get almost identical shots from 2 cameras with different sensor sizes (with lenses matching the sensor size), keep the same shutter speed, apply the crop factor to both the focal length and the f-number, and apply the square of the crop factor to the ISO. For instance, a shot at 1/60s, 50mm, f4, ISO 800 on a full frame camera looks very similar to a shot at 1/60s, 25mm, f2, ISO 100 on a micro four third (after cropping to same ratio). That said, manufacturers have put a lot more efforts into FF lenses than in lenses for any other format, and for some genres it does make a difference. For sports and wildlife, it usually doesn't make a lot of sense to use anything else than full frame.
love the video, great work! I'm getting the ZV-E10 very soon and thought it would be cool if you were to make a video dedicated to properly using it and as well as what lenses are best for it. I am aware that you have made videos for lens that are great for the ZV-E10 before, It would just be extraordinarily helpful if you were go more into depth about the camera and would help beginners such as I. Great content, keep it up Thomas!
Thanks!
I’ve been procrastinating making that as the way I want to may take more work lol. But yes i totally will!
@@thomasjmcclure Thank you so much! You really have inspired me to start my journey, much love man❤️
@@therealnoahvalentine If you can hold on for a month, ZVE10 ii is about to be launched this May.
@@OnlyCitrus I may just wait then, thanks for letting me know!
also have been thinking about this FF vs APSC thing for a while and I took a shot at Viltrox 27mm F1.2. Here is my take on this….(I am not a professional photographer so take this with a grain of salt). If I go FF (eyeing on A7cii) and if I couldn’t afford those super expensive G Master F1.4 or 1.2 lenses then I probably won’t notice much of a difference in quality vs staying with Apsc and buy the Viltrox 27MM or 75mm F1.2 which is said to be super sharp and great low light performer though not going to be at FF level for more extreme situation like Astrophotography (still doable with APSC though - tested). Thus, if budget is not an issue and I can afford the great GM F1.4/1.2 lenses then by all means I would go for FF. Otherwise, an Apsc with a great lens will get the job done just as well in most cases with good glasses.
I really enjoy APSC. I've used both but prefer the smaller sensor.
감사합니다!
im local to you been watching all ur vids recently keep up the content its badass bro
Sir I am confused between A7cii And A6700. The reason that I wanna go to the Full Fream as 2.8 zooms looks good on FF. Like I can carry just 1 Len Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8 For FF. But Tamron 17-70mm f/2.8 for Aps-C will not be as good at night as that one, for that I must have to carry Sigma C scries lenses.
Oh good, I'm so confused.
Please help me out of this situation.
So both those Tamron lenses are f2.8, so they perform identically as far as how bright the image is, the only difference between the two would be how blurry the background appears due to the crop on apsc, but the 17-70 has more range and has stabilization, nevermind the $600 price difference between the two cameras. But both will give great results. The a7c ii seems to do better at high ISO’s compared to the a6700, but you’d hope so with the big price difference
@@thomasjmcclure okay sir, so I should probably go with the Sony A6700 as price does matter to me.
Would definitely be interested in knowing more about the anamorphic lenses if you want to make a video out of it! I've been looking at the Lumix S5IIX and I didn't know anamorphics had different benefits with open gates or what the squeeze even means
I do have a video about the sirui lenses, but I’m thinking about doing one with the fx30. Cam Mackie has a good video about that sort of thing in his blazar lens review he put out a few weeks ago
Skills are most important😊👍🏻. Especially for social media content APSC is great. Currently I do rock a combination, canon R7 and R8 and enjoy them both. The R7 is my workhorse for exhibitions, B-Roll and als my run and gun camera. The r8 is a B-Video camera and also my foto camera. Absolutely looking forward to pick up in July a sigma 10-18 f2,8 for the ar7, it’s great that canon finally giving in and allowing 3rd party AF lenses coming to the RF mount!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this one, have a great weekend 👍🏻
Thanks man!
I chose Full Frame as my main for a reason and for its image quality capabilities (Photo and Video wise), I use APS-C as a b-cam (video) and travel cam for its size (photo and short snaps of videos).
Doesn't matter which one you choose, not one is better than the other in my opinion as long as you know which one to choose for the job.
Specs and features of a camera matters a lot to me more than its sensor, for example I would choose A6700 over A7II because of the new features and its capabilities compared to the older A7II even though its a Full Frame camera. (Don't get me wrong it does take great photos just not for video due to its limitations and AF performance)
Great video! You tackled most of the things I always point out to people about APS-C and Full Frame :)
its the same reason why we choose specific lenses for shoots!
That’s the key, using the right tool for the job. Thanks!
Sorry but what are the cinema lenses that you said? I didn't get the model.
The T1.0 ones are by Zhongyi, the speedmaster series. I have a full review on the channel 😊
@@thomasjmcclurethanks
For me it is full frame ! To my use the full frame Camera are the most versatile Camera, with 61 megapixel I have two Cameras in one Camera, I can any time use the APSC mode with 26 megapixels if I need to and I often do for fx bird and wildlife photography, but for fx Landscape photography I use full frame to get the maximum image quality.
There is micro four thirds, APS-C, APS-H, full frame(35mm) and MEDIUM format. These is no large format sensor.
Yeah I noticed i misspoke about medium format. Had old film camera large format on the brain lol
You get better low light performance with full frame, period. I have shot full frame for the last 12 years and it is what it is. However, nowadays this advantage is for most people less or not relevant. A recent APSC model performs close enough that it doesn't matter much at all. Shallow DOF is easier to achieve with full frame. A budget lens on full frame (e.g. 50/1.8) blurs already a lot. To get the same on APSC you need a much more expensive 'pro' lens like a 33/1.2. So yes, full frame is better in most ways but not super relevant in decent light. At the same time you get a bigger and heavier kit to lug around. Full frame is just not the holy Grail as it used to be. Disclaimer, I recently sold all my Canon full frame gear and got a Fujifilm X-T5 and 18 and 33 LM WR lenses.
Fullframe all day. When I first started with Fuji I saw all the videos about how you didnt need it but once I switched my workflow massively improved. Im never going back😂
How did a FF camera improve your work flow? When, I was in Film School, we asked our professor this question, and he basically put it this way. "There are two types of cinematographers, those that create breath taking visuals with any camera, and those that need specific cameras to create passable visuals because they have no talent and if you're in the latter then leave my class, this field isn't for you".
I always thought he was a bit of an arse for saying that, but have found that to be true, not all of the time, but most of the time. It was more nuanced then that. So, that's why I'm asking, how did it improve your work flow?
@@jessea3165 Im a firefighter by trade. We can accomplish our job with any tool or lack there-of through sheer will, however, some tools make accomplishing it easier. Do I need a specific camera to find my voice, absolutely not, but having a tool that makes reaching the goal easier is worth it to me. Why wouldnt you want more light and more depth of field.
You can make them look similar sure but for acquisition, full frame just has so much more latitude and room for error before clipping and still getting enough light for low noise. That’s my experience going from One Inch to MFT to APSC to Full Frame. Full frame is just incredible in the dynamic range from neutral exposure before clipping. Just my experience. I don’t care about bokeh.
It depends which cameras you are comparing, theres a lot of amazing cinema cameras with much better dynamic range than some full frame cameras. if you compare a New Sony full frame like an a7iv to a new sony apsc like the a6700, yeah there would be a difference (but youd hope so for the price difference). Usually its down to getting what you pay for, a $5000 Super35 cinema camera will perform better than a $2500 full frame camera which will perform better than a $1500 super35 camera. hope that makes sense.
FF is better, but APS-C is good enough for 95% of ppl who use mirorless cameras
I’d say that FF CAN be better, but isn’t always, for example I’d take a red Komodo (apsc) over a Sony a7iv for video any day, but I’d take an a7iv over a Sony a6000. Depends on what cameras we mean.
Totally agree. A blanket statement (like the one above) kind of missed the poijt of your video. @thomasjmcclure
APSC and Fullframe sucs Medium and large format are best
lol that's hilarious! Will it change the minds of the full framers? Nope :-)
It's that Lumix you're eyeing isn't it? 👀
🤫… don’t tell sony
Modern cameras are great in right hands. Heck you've seen many great shots using iPhone with fingernail size sensor. Also who on earth shoot film without light? Many night scenes are actually shot in day time then edited in post.
Good point about the day time to night time edits, I’ve had to do that once, in a pinch lol.
It's a LUMIX isn't it? LOL. Interested to know.
A 30mm lens on an APSC body is not a 40mm
Haha it was the closest I had to match it with the MFT 20mm
@@thomasjmcclure probably better to just say that then, rather than possibly confusing new photographers
I prefer MFT 🤷
I don’t know enough about MFT lens options, but I love my Z Cam M4 with a Sony mount on it!