🤔 Something appears WRONG with the Toyota GT-One??... || Gran Turismo 7
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- Опубліковано 2 кві 2024
- When I first heard that the Toyota GT-One was coming to Gran Turismo I automatically thought it would go into Gr.1... But it didn't. Now is it right that it's in Gr.1 or should it stay in Gr.2?
...Enjoy :)
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#GT7 #GranTurismo7 #granturismo - Ігри
![Evolution of Toyota GT-ONE TS020 1999 & 2024 GT2 - GT7 [4K]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KoT528LO2B8/mqdefault.jpg)
I don't think it belongs in either category. They need to redo the grouping system for GT8 to classify cars into tighter groups which will allow for an easier BoP.
We need sub-groups. Is all.
(GT-1, clk lm, mclaren f1 in sub-group of Gr.1, definitely)
If they were to add the Nissan R390, Panoz, Porsche 911 GT1. Then I think they’d have enough to create a new category.
That still doesn't work, because the GT-One mops the floor with them.
The groups definitely need work. I reckon they're trying to build car numbers up before they go doing big changes to it.
Or possibly GT8 will see those changes.
@@greatsageclok-roo9013 u know about BoP?
@@bradconrad1961yeah if they added them and Bentley too then there grounds for it
This version of the GT-One is surely a GR.1 car, cuz in real life, it's the LmGTP version. If they had added the GT1 version, it would make more sense as a GR.2
Yeah Mercedes and Toyota both were really let off the lease in 1999 by the ACO after Mercedes-Benz burned down the GT1 class by winning all the rounds of the FIA GT1 World Championship the previous year in 98, the only race Mercedes didn't win that year was the 24 hours of Le Mans itself but that wasn't a championship round and the only reason they didn't win there was that Mercedes didn't have the necessary time to properly build and develop a endurance version of the engine in CLK-LM and Toyota were prevented from winning due to there Gearboxes kept failing even so both Mercedes and Toyota both had a car starting on the front row for the race as they were the fastest car in class already for the race but Porsche had the best overall package of speed and reliability.
Going into the 1999 race Mercedes and Toyota went two seperate way in developing a car for the new LMGTP class with Mercedes building brand new cars for the class the "aerobatic" CLR and Toyota just further developing the GT-One without the road-going constraints of the GT1 class I mean let's be honest of all the GT1 car the Toyota GT-One was literally just a closed cockpit Le Mans prototype so it wasn't be hard for Toyota to update the car anyway.
I'm okay with the grouping because group two is in desperate need of more cars. I also tried this car in group 1 but despite the lack of downforce that most people mention I believe the fuel capacity is lower as well and that's a huge disadvantage unless you put the AI on easy level but on hard you don't stand a chance with your fuel capacity even if you bump it with the highest turbocharger and get the PP above some of the group one cars you're going to burn all your fuel and pit every two laps. Honestly the best suggestion is to have the subgroups like group C and GT1, DTM, Hypercar, etc.
Gr.1 with sub categories (Group C, LMH, LMP1, LMP, LMGTP, GT1, Can Am)
Gr.2 (Super GT, DTM (modern), LMP2, LM Race Cars from previous games (Zonda LM, Corvette C6 ZR1 LM, Nissan LM etc.)
Gr.3 and Gr.4 can stay how they are now.
Yeah need regrouping, but they need to reclassify a lot of cars within groups, ff gr4, older cars and newer cars. Don't see pd doing this though
I love the GT-One. It looks great, sounds great, and feels great to drive, but I just can't understand Gr.2. I've tried, since I've heard a few people online now saying how it feels at home in Gr.2, but I just don't see it. It has far better stats than every other Gr.2 car, with the modern cars being 10 performance points or more below it, and the older cars from the 90s are 30 points below it. It has 100bhp or more than every other Gr.2 car, it is faster than every other Gr.2 car, it has higher PP than some Gr.1 cars stock and I can easily keep pace with Gr.1 cars while driving it. I always use the NSX GT500 as an example; go to GT6 and try to beat a GT-One with an NSX GT500, you won't be able to, because the 2 cars aren't in the same league. The GT-ONE had over 670pp, and the NSX GT500 had under 600pp, and now Polyphony is saying these 2 cars are in the same league? You can argue BoP all day long, but if the car has to be nerfed to Oblivion to be at the same level as others in it's class ( which I personally believe it will have to be), then it's in the wrong class. I could nerf Gr.1 cars to be competitive in Gr.2 no problem.
Polyphony themselves prove how the GT-ONE doesn't belong in Gr.2. Look at the newest WTC900 at Le Mans. You will win easily in a GT-ONE with stock power and Racing Hard tyres, at least I could. Every car from 3rd downwards was at least 50 seconds behind me, but do you know the only car that was within 10 seconds of me? The AI controlled GT-ONE, which started way back in the grid. If the AI is able to show up every other Gr.2 car in a GT-ONE while starting near the bottom of the grid, then it's completely OP.
Also, in terms of tuning, I believe that the GT-ONE is being limited in how much it can be tuned to keep it "competitive" in Gr.2, that's why a high end turbocharger only adds about 70bhp and the pp goes up by about 10 or less. Since the car is already OP in Gr.2, they don't want you to be able to tune it even more above everything else in the group. If the GT-ONE gets reclassed to Gr.1, then I believe we will be able to get more power and much higher PP than we can now with the car in Gr.2.
In real life the NSX GT500 is as quick, if not quicker, than the GT-ONE. In competition the GT-ONE has closer to 600bhp than the 750bhp in game.
Anyone who has even very, very little idea of real-life lap times would know this is a group 2 car, if we use the GT classification.
Great video. Enjoyed the trackside camera replay too 👍
it looks more like a Group1 car than Group 2
It definitely belongs in Gr.1 but GT 7 Should give us a new Group called Gr.c so only 1980s - 1990s lemans cars race with each other only.
Also, I like how your channel is evolving Tidg keep up the good work buddy
Frankly, GR.2. I'm not a fan of these class systems post GT Sport (despite the job they did manage to do with balancing Gr.3 and Gr.4) but my reasons for feeling that GR.2 is fine for it lies in key major features of both classes that I have obsevered. With GR.2:
- Race car silhouettes vaguely based on a production model of some kind (even including the GT1 road cars because somehow, that 911 Strassenversion for example IS road legal.)
- Only come in rearwheel drive with standard Petrol engines.
- Have little or no trick technologies that give an advantage (The only exception being the Audi RS5 Turbo DTM with its DRS wing, but that can be disabled in a Custom lobby)
Gr.1 on the other hand:
- Race car shapes either fictional or real usually not based on an actual Road car.
- Mostly come in Rear wheel drive, but are not restricted to it with can feature engines that aren't just regular petrol.
- Feature some sort of advantage that cannot be easily BOP'd (Low drag and high power of the Group Cs, Immense Torque from the Diesels and Hybrid systems that aid in traction out of corners)
Now taking all those into consideration, the GT-One is abit OP for GR.2 yet ticks all the boxes for it while its useless in Gr.1 either with or without tire and fuel use. You say you could have a competitive race but lets be real: How are you gonna BOP the Hybrids? How are you gonna bop the diesels? Sure you can turn down that power of the Group Cs, but thats only 5 cars in a class that features far more then that and unfortunately, guess what those other many cars have? And it gets worse when fuel use is on because would you like to guess who gets better mileage? One person has even tried to peg back the Porsche 919 Hybrid (Arguably, the strongest of the Hybrids) and it still outran the GT-One despite the massive power drop.
For this reason (and because I don't see PD introducing sub classes regardless of what any one of us says), GR.2 is the only option for this car. Putting in Gr.1 is simply an uphill battle it has no chance of winning regardless of what you do.
I feel the REAL reason people want this in GR.1 is for the same silly trap we continue to fall for: Nostalgia. It was one of the fastest cars in our childhoods so it should be in the top class now...yet we forget the part where Gran Turismo had NO class system until GT Sport so it was essentially a lawless land of randomly throwing these cars together (something that even then I didn't, hell I hated even more). And even then, All someone had to do was show up in a Group C car and its bye-bye to the GT-One.
Finally, someone smart.
I raced the TS020 against the 787B at Grand Valley and the TS020 beat the 787B on most runs. That might justify putting the TS020 in Gr. 1.
The group system in Gran Turismo is a cesspool and with that system it will never be reflective of what cars should race against each other. Although the series has seemed to have a made a point of eras of racing being brought together with the GT-One, R390 and 787B being the main trio in GT3.
That being said, the GT-One is in no mans land in Gr.1. It lacks top end of the Group C cars and lacks the downforce of more modern LMPS. I think its rightful place in the game is Gr.2 as it needs to be a top/dominant car in its group as that’s what it was in ‘99. We just need to get the R390 in the game, along with the BMW V12 LMR and (wishful thinking) the ‘98 winning Porsche 911 GT1. A rebalancing of the group system is definitely needed however.
Womble made a good video about it a while ago too. If they don't haver time/resources to balance those cars they should put them in separate categories based on performance tier. Separate the VGTs too. We are having Gr.1 races in league I'm a part of and sometimes it's hard to pick a car that's not too good/bad so the race is fair.
I am so LMP GTR lmp1 and downforce no downforce I am classified as confused
Group 1 is in need of a breakdown. 1a, 1b, 1c, etc.
We're playtesting their groups/BoP. The least P-D could do is listen to our ideas.
The GT-One belongs in Group 1 with the CLK
The rules have changed so much over time that no category has been stable. An historically accurate grouping would be complex, a pure BOP is a bit dull, something in between is not ideal but best option.
Wrt the handling in the time trial, I think the BOP settings has messed around with the suspension settings, LSD or a combination thereof and made its handling much worse than it otherwise should be
If it was just a straight power and weight adjustment it would handle beautifully imo, but when I compare manually adding weight and limiting power to the BOP applied in the TT, it handles *very* differently
As for what class it should be in, I really don't know what to suggest, the whole grouping system is a mess and leaves massive variation within the groups that makes certain types of cars like vgt utterly dominant and classic cars completely outclassed, but are technically fit for their respective group
I'm not sure where Polyphony got the 764 hp from. They should correct it to the 600 it actually raced with.
Wasn't it named after the class it was in? Gr. 1?
The Toyota GT-ONE is a weird case in this game, while yes the car is faster than the Gr.2 cars stock, however it's not quick enough to keep up with the LMP1s in Gr.1. I do believe it having 764hp (when it should actually be 600hp) does contribute to why the TS020 is in this position, hence why I say it should really be in a sub-category like LMP900.
By far they should overhual the class system already: Gr2 - Super GT/DTM, Gr.2 - LM, Gr.1 Modern Prototype, Gr.1 Group C...
In General the GR. classees dont make any sense.
DP needs to start doing propper Daily Races where they say, OK this week it's Group C on Le Mans or Super GT Race at Fuji, Only GT3 at Spa, LMP1 at Daytona, maybe a Porsche Cup Race. Even if we have only 4 or 5 cars to chose in a Race, and enable more Tuning.
Limit the useable cars.
also, having the same track 3 weeks in a row won't be as dull anymore.😮💨😮💨
Without Balance of Performance the GT-One is 844.84PP Stock with 764 HP. If you add BoP, you get 572 HP and 2094 lbs (950 kg). LMGT1 cars were changed to the LMGTP class in 1999. The CLK-LM is a GT1 car, so it makes sense that the GT-One is in Gr.2, as it was homologated as a GT1 car turned to a LMGTP car.
I agree they should put it in Gr. 1, and increase the downforce of it. But maybe also reduce the power to race spec and not qualifying spec.
This was always gonna be an issue when you have older and newer cars in the same category. Older gt1 cars were would get destroyed by current gt500 cars due to their aero grip. Its been said they are on par with the audi lmp1 car and look what category thats in
There is no such thing as a "current" gt500 car.
I think it feels like it should be Gr1, but I also think that PD could/should be more specific with car choices for daily races to make use of more cars overall.
I think the GT One and the CLK should be in gr1. Arguably the gr2 F1 should also, but with proper BoP I think that one can fit into either class just fine.
THIS!!
I strongly disagree. For reference, the F1 GTR competed in Super GT (then JGTC) against the top GT500 cars, which just so happen to be classed as Gr.2 cars. The F1 GTR and CLK would get absolutely annihilated by even Group C cars, let alone the LMP1 hybrids or diesel monstrosities like the Peugeot. If they added the Mercedes-Benz CLR, that would end up in a similar position to the GT-One, where its un-BoP'd performance is clearly superior to the rest of Gr.2, but still nowhere near even the slowest Gr.1 cars.
There should be a Gr1 Enduro category
It use the GT7 power specs (pre bop) at around 750hp it's a Gr.1 car but if u use the real life cars hp at around the 600hp mark it's Gr.2
Yes I agree it has been categorised inappropriately on name and looks alone.
It is a nice car though.
Maybe PD could divide it up to historics -up to 1999 and newer 2000 and up 🤷🏻♂️.
Does look a bit daft when racing against the Audi DTM, like having a Caterham7 up against a BTCC Mondeo......
Consider the fact that Class 1 cars (modern GT500 and pre-2020 DTM) are basically prototypes with a vaguely production car-shaped body slapped on them, with roughly the same amount of downforce as an LMP2 car, and that the last time someone tried to race an actual production-based GT car (a DBR9 GT1) against GT500 cars it got completely annihilated. _That_ is what you have to balance older cars against, and prototypes from that era are practically the only things that stand a chance.
If it gets into Group1, it would need a stat boost to keep up. Statistically it fits in Group2.
I agree Tidge.
Gr1 for sure, but tbh both Gr1 and Gr2 are a mess, Gr1 needs further division, Group C cars and Hybrid
I think Gr.1 needs a little update… maybe let Group C have its own grouping as well as the JGTC. That way we could promote the DBR-9 to Gr.2 as it’s criminal where that is.
Given it’s the same era as the Merc and McLaren I don’t have an issue with this being Gr.2 for now but with a little bit of reworking, sure, bump it up to Gr.1.
I’ve enjoyed making some custom late 90’s races this last week and the Merc is good competition for the Toyota
As much as I just am not a fan of this classing system period (Honestly, its useless when only 2 of them are even regularly used), Aston Martin DBR9 in GR.2 would not be a great idea. You have a GT car (far more closer to its production counterpart then basically this entire category) going against a class with NOTHING but pure racing silhouettes in it. The Mercedes would kill it, The Mclaren would make look like its the old one and we already have real world evidence of why it has no shot against the GT500s from 2008 as one team found out the hard way (Spoiler alert: Downforce is kinda important). And given how severely outgunned it was against the 2008 cars, imagine how bad it would be against the Class 1 spec 2016 GT500s. Hell, don't even get me started on what the 2019 Audi RS5 Turbo DTM will do to it (even sans the DRS).
They definitely need a more thorough breakdown in the racing cars. GT4 should stay GT4, but Gr 3 definitely needs to be split as GT3, GTE, and TCX. Gr. 2 needs to be GT500/DTM and Historic. Gr.1 needs to be broken down to Hypercar, Gr C, etc. Just having four (five if you count Gr. B) is not enough.
I also think to should be a gr.1 GT-one is a beast.
We need Tokyo R246 and Monaco.
The Mercedes too!
I think it should be in group 1 stock nothing done to car it laps lemans circuit in very similar times to Mazda 787b which is in group 1 it’s way faster than group 2 cars
imo it's just wired to see a LMP1 car in group 2.
PD should have brought the Porsche 911 GT1 also. Not the road version. PD bring lots of single cars in, that don't have a car to compete against. Honda RA2?? Gran Prix, McLaren MP4/4, Alfa 155 GR4., and now the GT One. Then they'll release a road version of a race car. Merc E190! Corvette C8!
All of this makes even less sense when we see that the performance of the Audi R15 (gr. 1) is worse than most gr. 2 cars
How about we actually use the Gr1 cars instead of them collecting dust in the garage ??? When was the last time we raced at Lemans?
It's a very good point, we've not had one in quite awhile!
My personal thought is (ignoring sub-groups as an option, because as nice as they'd be they won't happen) that all of the BMW, CLK and GT-One should be in Gr.1 and Gr.1 should be loosely defined as the "top class of Le Mans" group rather than strictly the prototype group.
But I'd rather all of those cars be in the same group instead of just moving the GT-One, because in the future them adding the R390 to Gr.2 and it not being with the GT-One would feel wrong for Gran Turismo even if it was technically correct for the real world rulesets.
I think they just wanted to have more Gr2 cars and that's how they do it, by considering GT1 cars kind of like a step between prototype and GT3. Obviously this TS020 is a GTP so a prototype, but they want it to be with the CLK because it's close in terms of years. It's possible that we tend to associate gr2 with super gt and they want to break that, and they want more variety in leaderboards like what happens in Gr3. In my opinion they should just split them up and given each new category their BOP, but I don't work there. They're too different on fuel and tyres. Do like Gr. LM1 for typical modern prototypes, Gr. LM2 for GTP/GT1/anything slower, Gr.C for older prototypes. And well, i don't know about the VGTs, I suppose you could downgrade their performance further and put them in LM2
I feel they put it in gr2 to give rival to the clk
It’s slower than almost every Gr.1 car even when it’s in the Qualifying trim
The laptimes of the GT one mostly match the real thing and the car is evenly matched by modern GT500 cars around some tracks
Also the Toyota GT one 1999 is almost the exact same car as it was in 1998 when it raced the CLK and the 911 GT1 so I think it’s in the correct group whether you hate it or hate it
They actually only made 1 road car of the GT-one. It is a common myth that they made 2...
Interesting, I didn't know this I may have to do more research as I do like the history of this car 👀
For sure the car looks more like a Group1 car, because as a GT1 car it was intentionally trying to bend the rules.
That said, I think it should be BOTH!
Instead of a Type A and Type B body kit, it should have a Group 1 and Group 2 body kit, with an adjustable BoP for both.
So you can put the 99 Gr1 front and rear end with the 4 head lights, and two tail lights, and make the car Gr1, with Gr1 BoP.
Then if you put the 98 Gr2 body on, with the 3 front head lamps, the black air vein behind the wheel well, and the three tail light rear bumper with the altered exhaust, it sets the car to Gr2, and runs a Gr2 BoP at significantly reduced power and down force levels. That way you get the best of both, and it's historically accurate.
I don't think the car is quick enough for gr1, the other cars have a lot more downforce.
Gr1 mostly for me...
But yes, I agree with you that it's classified wrong. 👏
運営「CLKと戦ってたからGr.2で良いか！」（？？？）
Well, you're gonna like what we're preparing 👀
On a sidenote, the problem lies more within PD insisting with a group system that just does not work anymore. Get rid of the whole thing and rebuild it from the ground up. Hell, even have cars fit in multiple groups so you can have real life classes, and "esports" classes.
Ooooooo interesting 👀👀👀👀👀
ITS LITERALLY Called Totyota GT-One because it was Originally in Group 1. Like the Nissan R92 CP that Almost have the Same Specs So Yeah.
GT1 is not the same as PD's Gr.1. The reality of the situation is the true Gr.1 cars should be LMP1-class cars and most of the VGT Gr.1 cars, with Group C and any LMh/LMDh cars having their own separate group. The GT-One would slot nicely into the latter group if it had more downforce, but against things like the Porsche 919 or Peugeot 908 it would get absolutely obliterated.
Like you said, it’s in the name 😂
Gr1 sounds right
Forza Motorsport 2023: Early LMP
Project CARS 2: LMP900
Forza Motorsport 6: Endurance Prototypes
Forza Motorsport 5: Prototype 1
Forza Motorsport 2: R1 Class
Do you see how wrong it is to put the 1999 Toyota TS020 in Gr. 2?
Edit: Polyphony are dead set on putting the TS020 in Gr. 2. If you select hint in WTC900, you'll get the TS020 as a recommended car.
If it was the 1998 version then absolutely should be Gr1 but as it's the adapted 1999 version it shouldn't be Gr1
It isnt fast enough nor does it have the downforce of the cars in gr1...it, the merc and the mclaren need to be put in their own class and bop....same with GrC but we know PD dont give a crap about what we want or what should be done....better it be in Gr2 with the merc and macca so at least those 3 can race each other.
How is it a "legend" MR car does not turn for 💩 🤔
I dunno man, you're saying it belongs in Group 1 as we watch footage of it get absolutely freight train-ed by the entire group 1 field. It just doesn't have the performance with what they've given it, the aero platform is way too low in downforce and the top speed is slow even with over 700hp.
The way its been made makes it a joke of a car.
The Group system was a great idea when we had 80 cars to play with, but in GTs roster of 500 cars the ability to throw every race car in the last 40 years cleanly into 4 groups just isn't viable, it needs an overhaul which is what it has needed since towards the end of Sport.
I was just showing that footage for looks to be honest. The BoP can easily be changed for it to work in that class. Appreciate your comment!
@@tidgney Can BoP give custom downforce figures? Feels like you'd be working real hard with power and weight to try compensate for its lack of aerodynamic performance that would leave it broken OP or broken slow depending on what track is used. Why they gave it so little DF I don't know.
Maybe pd has made a mistake. Maybe they will correct it.
your mom is group 1 legendary; she created a gentleman racer
more seriously; wouldn't the grouping be determined not by its name or how it looks; but by its real life performance? Taking those real cars from the past and doing time trials today, what group would they fall in to? (current time trial gives the tire advancements over the decades)
Also, would like to see multiple group races in GT7; won't happen but imagine 10 Gr3 and 10 Gr4 in a hour+ endurance race. Pit strategies, weather (sorry mate), interesting traffic. Even if it was just an exhibition match at a big event because latency/etc.
One last thing; spray in wet weather; toggable for pve from minimal to launch/realistic; and current for pvp. Imagine VR with the original spray effect feeling fully immersed! (wet weather doesn't bother me; I've farmed Spa and LeMans for the clean race bonus wins more times than I could try to recall; you get used to how to read the map and how the tires get affected.
I think there was a glitch for our man that ruined the experience for him; it seemed odd compared to my experiences as a whole (recall some outliers that I blamed on my skill levels on feathering throttle on a controller)
😂😂😂😂😂 My mum is a legend, love the comment!
Every group in gt7 is broken, they just stick cars wherever they want, which is kind of expected since all the cars are either antiques or not even real cars to begin with. People need to quit expecting too much from this game...... which is sad.
The CLK-LM would have raced in LMGTP if customers had run the car in '99. The CLR was essentially a CLK-LM with revised aerodynamics. There were no significant technical differences between GT1 & LMGTP between '98 & '99 other than the need for road homologation.
In GT1 yearly development was rapid as manufactures pushed homologation limits. The yearly performance jump form '95 onwards was as big as '98 to '99. Looks are irreverent - they where a by-product of pushing rules to the limit.
The real GT-ONE has nearer 600bhp rather than the 750bhp in-game. The performance difference from LMP1H to the GT-ONE is 10-15 seconds. The performance gap from the CLK-LM to the GT-ONE is 5 seconds. By this metric other late '90's & early 00's Le Mans cars should also be in Gr.2 - including the V12 LMR, Speed 8, R8, C60.
What we should have is a separation of Group C from Gr.1 - those cars are 30+ years old - they need significant power bumps and (unrealistic) modern tyres to be competitive. Likewise, in Gr.2 GT500 & DTM should be separate from the rest - they're very quick over a lap - but deliver their performance very differently to LMGTP/GT1.
I think your background races prove it is currently between the 2 categories. Too fast for Gr2. Too slow for Gr1. It and the CLK either needs their own class or a good bop is needed for Gr2. Both the GT-One or the CLK will only be meta on certain tracks so it may not be an issue but it shows how poor the basis for Gr2 is.
Made it to 3:25 before i got too bored.
Gr1
GR.1 hands down.
In my opinion if you put it in Gr1 it will just be like the Gr10 pointless, and in Gr2 it's not the right fit.
It's a fundamental issue with the game, shoe horning cars together than trying to BOP them, It's poor planning and it's why GT and PD are falling behind, nearly every update of cars is Hodge potch, instead of bringing out say to packs of cars be it race or road but especially race cars, that stack up against each other they bring out cars in isolation that don't belong in any group can't be sensibly be BOP without making them drive badly.
I know you're a big fan of GT but I don't think kaz grasps this the game has not moved on, whilst the competition has.
Simple. Stock, the car is GR.2. With upgrades, it's easily GR.1.
After hearing your take, that actually makes a ton of sense 🤦🏾♂
Irl these have way more downforce than it has in the game.
It doesn't matter to me really as if it's not a one make race I will not be choosing this car as it's beyond my driving capabilities.
Like deployed 👍
😎🎙🏎✅️
First again