The Helphen | Elden Ring Lore
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- Опубліковано 2 сер 2022
- Hey there! In this one, I discuss connections between Elden Ring's underworld and the afterlife in Norse Mythology, as well as theories relating to Outer Gods and the Helphen.
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Twitter: noctugalplays?t=M...
Email: noctugal@gmail.com
Music:
Suite Tracks Music - Brooding and sad piano music. Bittersweet and delicate for drama. A little mystery.
#eldenring #eldenringtheory #helphen #eldenringlore #fromsoftware - Ігри
Red is also perceived to be primeval gold. (Dragon lightning, Crucible knights). The helphen grace could be primeval grace before the golden order excised the Crucible and removed the rune of death.
Your theory that other gods could create a "Grace" to follow is supported by Hyetta's questline. She sees the guidance of grace, but it is one that leads her to the 3fingers.
Which could be an elevated form of puppetry.
There's also blue grace like streams of light throughout Raya Lucaria but they seem to be zig zagging all over the place, not pointing to anything in particular.
@@alblank1316 and red grace trails in the forbidden lands right as you leave the capitol
And the blood star, from the thorns - sorceries
One idea I've had is that Outer God of the Death-Birds is paired with the Formless Mother. I don't see why multiple Outer Gods can't be cooperative, and there's tenuous precedent with the marriage of Radagon and Rennala unifying the Golden Order with the Moon. Though that depends upon the Moon, Dark or not, being interpreted as an Outer God.
The moon isn't perceived as an Outer God, as there is no info on it in the game. However, there is a pairing between the Greater Will and the Ancient God of Dragons, as Fortissax had become friends with Godwyn and Lansseax managed to convince the Golden Order to allow for the creation of the Dragon Cult, which draws power from the Ancient Dragons and their Outer God.
@@the_furry_inside_your_walls639 It should be noted that there is no mention of the dragon god being an outer god, only a god like Marika. Also in the unpatched version one of the item that says the dragon god fled instead mention that the dragon's served The Greater Will untill it left, possibly meaning the only outer god they served was TGW or perhaps The One Great if that indeed was an outer god and not just a state of being.
@@the_furry_inside_your_walls639 The moon is absolutely seen as an outer God. The outer God of fate. I.e. the fate of the stars. They go hand in hand. Also there is alot of proof to say that the god of the dragons was either Marika or someone with her same position of power, Placidusax was the "Elden Lord" and the greater will was their outer God. However this may not be the case, the actual god and the outer God during that time is actually completely unknown although based on imagery, descriptions, and icons it almost certainly was the greater will but during a previous age. Go to the peak of Manus Celes and peer into the closed eye of the moon and see the truth. It is quite disturbing.
@@endlesstrash4718 I know this is a year-old comment, but the Greater Will being an outer god is really only speculation, I don't think there's any evidence of it being the case.
Bones are all that remains from the incineration of the corpse. The birds scoop it out, making way for the next batch.
Perhaps this is why the Tibia Mariners focus on summoning bone-type summons. That is all that is left after the ghost flame does it's thing.
CORRECTION: At 6:10 I said Baldur died a gruesome death in battle, and I meant to say he died a gruesome and painful death and yet still wound up in Hel. The Prose Edda is more concerned with the gruesome and painful part of death to enter Valhalla, which is more easily achieved in battle, though Baldur did not die in combat per se.
Moreover, I was intentionally being over simplistic with a few things, such as claiming Celtic mythology is the basis for Norse mythology and that the Poetic Edda is the end-all-be-all of Norse mythology. I now realize my words were likely taken as if I meant Norse mythology entirely using Celtic mythology as a blueprint. Celtic mythology is connected to Norse mythology and does slightly predate Norse mythology and some names in Norse mythology can be inferred to have originated from a Celtic origin. Furthermore, I was also over simplistic when discussing the Poetic Edda, as most stories in Norse mythology were passed down orally, and thus there is much argumentation and confusion as to the accuracy of information in both of the Edda's, though less is known about the Poetic Edda and is a collection of anonymous narrative tales that could perhaps be more in line with the old Norse mythos.
Wow! You made it to the end! You're a real trooper!
I believe it's vague enough that putting your foot down on calling it a contradiction is wrong.
@@mikaneumann7791 I can understand where you're coming from, though I was going off of what I've read experts in the field discussing, which are the inconsistencies between the Poetic and Prose Edda, with the most pertinent one being that gruesome and painful deaths lead one to Valhalla in the Prose Edda and not the Poetic Edda, yet Baldur enters Hel in both.
@@noctugal surely it‘s not that simple though, right? What gods did actually end up in Valhalla after a gruesome and painful death?
That's why the Prose Edda can be a bit confusing, as there aren't other gods directly mentioned that go to Valhalla or Hel, yet Baldur does. Though, in the Poetic Edda it's not really clear as to why Baldur enters Hel, and it especially makes little sense based on the Prose Edda's designation for entering Hel, as he should have entered Valhalla based on Snorri Sturluson's interpretation of the original tales. Again, this is all based on what I've read from those who've studied the differences between the two.
@@noctugal Ok, fair enough. You know more about this than I do.
You know those statues in Ordina that you have to activate looks like Miquella kneeling and holding a branch of Ghostwood. The candelabra in Elphael looks like them too. If Helphen is connected to the Formless Mother somehow, then there is a possibility that Miquella knew about the Helphen or worse, that him and Mohg had planned his transfer from the Haligtree to the Mohgywn Palace Mausoleum.
I've never considered this. I recall the candletree imagery in Ordina and Elphael, but it's interesting to think that if the Formless Mother is an Outer God that rules over Helphen, that Miquella could have devised Mohg to kidnap him and get him closer to the Formless Mother.
Honestly I'm not convinced with that. All evidence in game suggests that Miquella, and by extention Malenia, are both actively fighting away the influence of Outer Gods. That's the whole reason Miquella created Unalloyed Gold, to thwart the interference of Outer Gods like the God of Rot.
My problem with this is the Lands Between is already an afterlife for the Tarnished. They died in the outside world and are in a land without death. I think that if anything, Marika is the Helfen. She is the one who is interested in gathering powerful dead warriors for an unknown purpose.
I think erdtree burial is a kind of stasis that filters the runes one earned in life from the body. Marika is refusing Death so she can cause a mass influx of Runes/Grace. We’re told Marika was a Numen. We’re told the Numen sought to forge a Lord, specifically using mimic tears. Marika also is clearly quite the forgemaster herself. Perhaps she desired to forge a Lord capable of fighting the Greater Will. However, the mimic tears say something interesting.
“The spirit takes the form of the summoner to fight alongside them, but it’s mimicry does not extend to imitating the summoner´s will"
This could be a throwaway joke, but I think it may hint at the truth of Radagon and Marika. Radagon is clearly not identical to Marika, but I think there are reasons for this. It is said that Horah Loux was a great warrior, but Marika had need of a Lord, so she had Serosh hold back his lust for battle. Maybe Marika did something similar to herself? Goldmask often says that Radagon is/is related to a flaw in the Golden Order. Maybe when Marika became the vessel, to be a true vessel of the Golden Order she had to hide away part of herself. Perhaps she hoped to nurture that part of herself to one day challenge the Golden Order, only to have her hopes crushed when he ultimately chose to continue her endless existence as the vessel, perhaps because he could not bear to slay her.
Incredible video. I love the angle you're taking of analyzing real world mythos to understand their influence on the game's lore. Came to learn about a fictional game, left with a dope history lesson. Can't wait to see more from you 👍
I should add that there was a type of damnation for the worse people in Norse culture, the souls of Oathbreakers, Kinslayers and Adulterers were said to wash up on the shores of Nastrond, in Niflheim where they were consumed by Nidhoggr.
It’s interesting, the idea that creativity is rearranging and combining familiar ideas. Cormac McCarthy, the writer of No County for Old Men said in an interview that “The ugly fact is books are made out of books, the novel depends for its life on the novels that have been written”
I’ve always hated the idea that creative works must be original. It reinforces this idea that studying masters of art and art history is unnecessary and will soil creativity.
I haven't watched the full video yet so I don't know if you mention this, but in the Forbidden Lands you can see red-looking swirls of grace all around you. It could be related to the lamplight "similar to grace in appearance" of the Helphen.
re: the theories you proposed about creativity in the beginning, i highly recommend J.R.R. Tolkien's essay, "On Faerie Stories". his theory of sub-creation matches quite well with what you were discussing! and it's generally just an interesting essay from the father of fantasy on world building.
WOW! Such a unique interperation of Elden RIng and the world within it! Thanks to this, I have a more of a clue on who the Helphen actually are! New Sub.!
The thing I like to imagine is that the name “The Lands Between”, could be a direct reference to the 9 Realms. Specifically the three in the center of that picture you provided (aka Midgard, Alfheim, and Muspelheim). The Tree of Yggdrasil could also be related to The Erdtree as the three realms sit at it’s base, whilst the gods reside above, unseen to those below, just beneath the leaves and branches of the Erdtree. Not sure about the 5 remaining realms below, but again, this is just a theory. One thing I’m still very curious about is what we saw in the arena of the games final boss.
I think the Lands Between are more of a Berserk reference to Midland, the kingdom where a big part of the story unfolds, and is governed by a monarch (just like Marika). But i could be wrong.
@@exia32 I think it's the opposite actually, but you're not wrong. Berserk is somewhat influenced by Norse mythology, and Elden Ring seems to be influenced by both
What if the helphen was where the tarnished warrior spirits rested before the call of grace brought them back to the lands between? Maybe the ghostflame that guided the dead could have been a form of grace explicitly for that purpose
What a nice introduction this video has.
You got straight into it and immediately pulled my full attention by being both interesting and comprehensive.
Got a mini Vaati in the making here and I'm all for it.
Well done.
Incredible work. Thank you for making this!
Great vid dude. Love the deeper analysis you give. For sure subscribing can't wait for more content from you.
Just watching your video on the Helphen... I like your work 🙂. Looking forward to see you cover more Souls content from you
Want know a weirder thing, not just the formless mother and destined death, but the god of rotten, the cruxible knights and the giants are also associated with the color red. So maybe those things were just the how things worked bafore the elden ring control the order and logic of the word. In fact the outer god of rot is say to be rot “itself” not just power by rotten. When Godwyn is kill with destined death he started to show features of fish, tree and worm wich sounds just like all life blend together( the cruxible).
That thing isn't really Godwyn, but rather his body, which is still alive. The way the Black Knife Assassins killed Godwyn botched the process, causing his soul to die but his body to remain alive, and I guess when the body of an Empyrean remains alive but its soul is gone, some freaky things happen with it.
@@the_furry_inside_your_walls639 I'm sorry but you are wrong. It absolutely is Godwyn, and he wasn't an empyrean. The black knives also did not "botch" the process things went exactly as planned. Ranni was the empyrean. She wanted to shed her empyrean flesh because she refused to serve the greater will. She had the rune of destined death stolen and through hidden rites imbued it into the black knives. Imbuing half of the cursemark of death on herself and half onto godwyn the golden. Causing her to die in body allowing her spirit to live on, and godwyn to die in spirit leaving his body to stay and decay it is more like a tumour a growth that cannot stop growing.
And baldur did not die in battle he was tricked by loki. Being shot by an arrow that was made from mistletoe the only thing capable of hurting him. When his mother asked all of the worlds creatures to weep for him to bring baldur back to life loki dresed as a troll refused to weep keeping baldur in hel.
Yes I mistakenly said he died in battle. I meant to refer solely to the fact that he dies a gruesome and painful death, which is the primary designation for entering Valhalla in the Prose Edda and yet he still went to Hel.
Great video on an elden ring topic I haven't seen a video on yet! Subbed.
So we get:
1. Ancestor Spirits
2. The Helphen
3. The ghostflame sheenigans
4. The Crucible
5. Erdtree burial
6. Spirit Ashes
So it certainly seem possible to die wrong in Elden Ring.
Very nice video! Keep up the great work, and I hope to see more :)
The helphen has some interesting ties to Norse mythology, with being guided to the afterlife by a bright light. Very, very interesting, especially since elden Ring takes much liberties from Keltic & Norse mythology
Phenomenal video! Your channel is so criminally underrated, but I have a feeling you'll blow up sooner or later. Keep it up!!
Fantastic video, I wonder if you would be willing to make a video around the subject of Godwyn, the golden, or rather Godwyn, the prince of death. Would love to engage in discussion about what and why Godwyn is doing whatever it is he is doing, whether he realises it or not. Great video, keep it up.
Yo I saw the last video, didn't know you were just blowing up. Bring back the gas station vlogs, love it
👁I noticed some of the spirit summons have red glowing eyes. I wonder if this represents their ability to see the lamplight; similarly to how those blessed with grace have a golden hue to their eyes.
I just found your content and I love it. I can't wait for more lore analysis. Keep up the good work.👍
If there is a rival Outer God rulling the Helphen, it could explain why Marika wanted the Rune of Death unbound, since the end goal of her plan seems to have been severing the Greater Will's connection to The Lands Between.
Great video! Subbed!
I've seen a lot of discussion regarding the metaphysics and geography of the Lands Between, and why it has that name. My best guess is that it IS a physical, "real" place in the world of the game rather than a separate realm. Rather than being some sort of land "between" dimensions, or between life and death, it's simply the name of a central continent or land mass. Basically like how Middle Earth isn't the name of the planet in Tolkien's works, it's just a region surrounded by others but separated by the sea.
Some evidence includes the existence of other lands such as Eochaid and the Land of Reeds, as well as characters that have physically crossed the sea and travelled to the Lands Between, like Roderika.
When you mentioned a potential outer god that resides within the Helphen, amassing an army of the dead for some future confrontation, it made me wonder if that might have something to do with Marika sending the Tarnished across the sea to another land, specifically to die there. Maybe the Helphen's influence doesn't extend beyond the Lands Between? I'm not sure how that fits in with Marika's desire for them to "suffer unto eternity" though. I'm actually not sure if anything I've said makes sense, I haven't slept in five days lol send help
I think it makes a lot of sense especially considering the LOTR connections!
@@noctugal Well thank you, you're too kind. And by the way, this was a great video and it's a crime it doesn't have more views.
Thank you so much!
Great video, really interesting
Very interesting. I do think its a bit of a stretch to just conclude that helphen is red and then assert it as a fact for the rest of the video though
I don't know if its been pointed out or not but Celtic mythology is most certainly NOT the "foundation" for Nordic mythology.
Rather, they both share a theorised foundation, similarly to how both languages are distantly related by virtue of both being branches of the Indo-European language family tree, but share no direct genealogy with each other. They are both descendants of a hypothesised ur-myth that is also the basis for Greek, Roman, Germanic, Slavic, Kurdish, Persian, Hindu, etc. mythology (for the most part)
You are correct. I meant to say they had a similar source and similarities between them that also could have arisen from cross-pollination of the two cultures meeting.
BTW love these deep lore dives, this is on level of other lore channels like Lockstin & Gnoggin, and Game Theory. Don't know how you only have a little more than 400 subs, you definitely deserve more. Here, have another.
Has anyone discussed that the two and three fingers might be split apart like the mystics and skeksis from Dark Crystal? I get the feeling they might be the same source but seperated.
If you look the 2 fingers would fit within the gap in the three quite well
@@zakaryrichmond396 You think the dlc will talk about putting them back together for balance?
@@minespatch possible relation to the crucible?
@@zakaryrichmond396 We'll have to wait and see. Miyazaki mentioned in a previous interview about how one of influences was Dark Crystal.
IIRC, Hyetta does explain that the Greater Will made a great mistake. Perhaps this mistake resulted in the two fingers and three fingers splitting from one another. Once more, at some point there was the worship of a hand with five fingers, such as the beast incantations and the fact that the beasts and ancient dragons have five fingers, indicating a greater form of intelligence and possibly linked to some sort of being that was looked to for guidance, which could have also been a hand with five fingers.
Tibia means flute. So I think the mariners are named after their horns.
Another excellent video!
according to my speculative time-line. Marika was not around with the Helphen. She would've been active in the transition shortly thereafter. As the empyrian queen of death. Purveyor of the culture of death surrounding the first order. She ritually dealt death to gods. Once chosen, she led a coup of godslayers to prevent being contolled by that thing. Only, Maliketh "succeeded", where Blaidd "failed". Sealed her power. Submitted her to the Beast.
Red is mostly the sign of close proximity to, if not dated in, the time of the crucible. The lead crucible knight is guarding the remains of the Helphen in the underground. The Greater Will is a very powerful outer god who sent his machine and mechanic to dominate this world. Dragons were the first choice. Then the World Tree controlled by a very talented Spirit Tuner.
My theory on the Formless mother is that it is in fact Marika. Once shattering the Elden Ring she weakened the Elden Beast's hold on her and simultaneously injured both forms. This injury allowed her Omen children to draw directly from her body. That static wound is the formless mother empowering Mohg. It is also the symbol of betrayal that Morgott rejects.
two cents!
I love it!
Nice vid, the Helphen has interested me as I've learned about it. I certainly think an outer god is linked to it since the Twinbird(linked to death rite birds and therefore ghostflame) is said to be an envoy of an outer god but personally I don't feel like the Formless Mother quite fits. She does seem to grant Mohg wings, however. 🤔
Edit: Forgot to say I'm also confused how the deathbirds and Helphen could relate to other demigods as the mausoleum knights have imagery of them, but that seems to conflict with the belief in the Golden Order
I dont think the Formless Mother was in league with the Helphen but the theory of Marika fearing other Gods or having a disdain for those that opposed The Greater Will, even perhaps being puppet, is a holds great weight. I also believe that in her crusade to end Destined Death in The Lands Between, she allowed others like the Mother to grow incredibly powerful under her nose.
I have the feeling a DLC will take us here
Creativity is an expression of the eternal human experience. There is nothing new under the sun.
Your connection with the Formless Mother to the undead is interesting but the Formless Mother is more connected with the Omen and their accursed blood. However Omen can't return to the Erdtree to be resurrected that might be a more stronger connection as the Omen might have seen the Helphen
Check the item description of the “Twinbird Kite Shield” it might interest you and raise some new theories
Well regarding bones I heard a saying somewhere and I do not know if this is true in folklore. But blood is valued. Since blood is what ties the soul to the bones. It could give some interesting though wild interpretations for the undead/bones theory.
Though don’t forget the alchemical inspirations of elden ring and the undead needing bones to be summoned could be reference to the prima materia (bones = body = salt).
Personally I just think it’s classical inspiration and from previous games.
This video makes me feel even more strongly that the Gloam Eyed Queen was the empryean chosen by the one great or the twin bird death god via the five fingers. Placidusax could have been her Elden Lord; something caused a rift. The five fingers split into two and three; the greater will used the two fingers where the god of frenzy (greater will is order. God of frenzy is chaos) chose the three. (Or perhaps The One Great itself fractured and greater will and frenzy were created when it cleaved. Unclear).
But now I realize that it Gloam Eyed Queen could have been empyrean of the formless mother too, really. Perhaps formless mother IS the twin bird god just a different interpretation?
So much lore. So many thoughts haha
Been going deep on lore since the reveal of the expansion. I think you may have solved a lot of the links to it here.
Hell was first mentioned in the poetic edda, so no Christian infuenses. Even the concept of it is completelly different, hell being a cold place instead of brimstone and fire. While Baldr didnt die in battle, but was accidently killed as entertainment. So no warrior's death for him, off to hel he goes. :)
The Poetic Edda is a document from the Middle Ages. Even if the stories and poems in it date back hundreds of years Christianity is older still. Anyone who argues that the Eddas don't have Christian influence is being academically and historically dishonest.
I didn't watch the full video, but you can see the Helphen light in the forbidden lands
well done my dude
I think there might be a mirror like world that is similar to lands between but with is own tree. I feel like it's the spirit world and rennala's divine tower shows its wierd reverse like physics. I think it could also be related to the abyss
I personally disagree with the idea that Marika is against the outer god of the Helphen, and that the crucible and- funny enough the snake snails, are proof of such
Red is also the color of raw gold, prior to being smelted down and refined, this is made reference already in game with the crucible(their armor and weapons and holy essence being red because it represents raw gold and the primordial state of the order) and the dragons red lightning able to adapt and become lightning "flecked with gold"(Lightning Spear spell item description)
Because see, when it comes to spirits we see three possible outcomes
A. What the ancestral followers do where they collect bones together, in Norse and Celtic mythology bones were believed to house the soul/spirit inside them, and as we see with the ancestral spirit bosses, spirits still inside their bones cannot move from where they are unless their bones are moved(as can be seen by how animals whose bones aren't moved to the boss area such as any animals we kill while we're there don't show up in the bossfight, only ones who's bones were already moved there)
B. The deathbirds/death rite birds/other burn the bones of powerful warriors to let the spirit out during the age of the crucible/great tree which caused the spirit to be freed in the form of Ghostflame/spiritflame that will then seek the red grace of the crucible to guide it to the Helphen(sources: Red Feathered Branchsword, Blue Feathered Branchsword, Helphen's Steeple, Death's Poker)
And C. Have their bones burned post Erdtree/golden order so since that isn't "Erdtree burial" the body and soul can't revive but instead are stuck in the ashes of their bones allowing us to summon them
Can't be Mhog sice the envoy of the outer God who manage dead is the twin birds
I wonder if the Deathrite Birds could build nests out of bones? Or if there's a real life bird that does this that could be Death Rite Bird inspiration? Also, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Death Rite Bird encountered at the Outer Wall drop a Twin Death Rite Bird Kite Shield (don't recall the exact name of it) that mentions a Two Headed Death Rite Bird Outer God? Perhaps this has a connection to the Helphen. The Helphen's Steeple is also found very close to Castle Sol, and if I'm not mistaken the Church of the Eclipse found in Castle Sol has some unique architecture only found there that is very reminiscent of the Helphen Steeple's design. The only other thing I can think of is Nokron's architecture which wouldn't surprise me if it matched or was similar, considering Ghostflame Torch and the Hawks that use Ghostflame are found there, and there are also giant skeleton bones sitting in thrones found in the Eternal Cities. The Helphen definitely always made me think of the underground Eternal Cities. But I believe the Castle Sol connection links Helphen to the Eclipse. I'm wondering if the Eclipse opens up some gateway to the Helphen and Spirit World without needing to die in battle. Hoping to get answers to these questions in the DLC.
i would go so far as to say every creative act is combinatorial. Creativity is the permutation game. It seems like that can't be true at some level, but only because at the bottom of creativity, the pieces you are combining are small and highly abstract. Like the color red. Or 'circles'.
I dont think the formless mother is related. She craves wounds, not death. Her entire thing is suffering, not brave death. Her chosen are outcasts, the guilty, etc. not heroes.
Baldr didn't die in battle at all. He died of a horrible accident/assassination. And also he wasn't a human, so afterlife rules for dead humans wouldn't apply to him anyway.
What's interesting about it is that there aren't really any clear cut afterlife rules, and souls kind of went where they went most of the time, as Baldr did still go to Hel upon his death. Also you are correct that he did not die in battle, though the Prose Edda's designation for entering Valhalla was primarily that one died a gruesome death, and that such a death was more easily obtained in battle.
Now I want Helphen DLC
Hey 2 more cents for no reason but to say thanks for the video :)
cent 1) Snail eats Ashes, snail learns to make bell like noise (or whatever noise calls spirits but we use a bell so) and its a great evolutionary advantage. Thats a fun thought at least :D
cent 2) what do you think about the Red grace like light on the path to the Rold Elevator? i always thought it was the presences of the Fell God, but it could be seen a the same color as the helphen steeple gem? this one wasnt really a cent was it?
Well done.
Helphen in my quick 30 second research of the words that make it up could either be, a Hidden Fen (which makes sense with the tibia mariners, as a fen is a wetland)
Or it could mean “Hidden Light” from Phen which is variant of Pheno which refers to something that Shows or Shines. To show would make the name oxymoronic
hi there, first time watching your videos. you are raising really interesting ideas but if we look at grace and it being a connection with the greater will guiding the players and looks like some gold lines shinning above the player each time he visits the bonefire. my question would be what about the red grace looking lines that are located at the top of the mountain of the giants?? is the the grace of the helphain god?? did the helphian god help marika to defeat the fell god ?? or is this grace looking red lines in the mountain of the giants are related to the fell god???. another thing to add the word fell i think means fallen or defeated in the context of the game. meaning the fell god actually has a name but was labeled the fell god to further removing their existence from the lands between. moreover the kitesheild shows us that the envoy of the death mother bird is a twin bird possibly with two natures having cold death and burning life.
Awesome points! I really appreciate your analysis of the Fell God. Thank you very much!
3.5k views and 167 subscribers? man make dat 168 now big dawg👌
While I do find the subject matter facinating I was mesmerized by the visualizations in the video.
What program is that if you dont mind me asking.
No problem! It's called ClipChamp!
If all creativity is derivative, then all creativity can be traced back to nature. And nature functions on physics and biology, which in turn function on mathematical truths.
Therefore, creativity is math.
Also, while talking about Valhalla I couldn't help but think about Thor Love and Thunder.
Asgardian: Leave me here, I will dir on the battlefield and move on to Valhalla.
Thor: actually technically you have to die IN battle, and the battle is already over, so...
Asgardian: really? Shit.
XD
Can't properly express my sadness at how crap death magic is yet it looks so damn cool, saddens me.
I thought Baldur was killed by a mistletoe dart
Baldr didn't die in battle so he wouldn't go to Valhal
Hey friend! Do you have a Twitter? I think your research is bad ass and I've been chatting a lot with Rageikari, Quelaag and a few others on there whenever I find new cool stuff. Im writing a huge essay about interpreting the game spiritually as a guide to self actualization (through the lense of gender and family dynamics). If that or just being lore homies interests you let me know! I really like your work and you did a kick ass job on this one in particular
Also also, I think you're on the right track in thinking a lot of these are mashup concepts! I have written a good amount about that and while it lead me astray on one topic I think it is still how many of the symbols were built in game!
Thank you so much! My Twitter is @noctugalplays.
@@noctugal i just followed you on there! (@S41ntTr1n4) I don't have anything new from today but if you check out my pinned post thats where my essay is :) its dormant for now cause I had some lore theories wrong, but still has a bunch of interesting things to think about in there already.
And ill tag you when I find kewl stuffs :3
Snorri Sturlason wrote both the poetic edda and the pros edda
That is not true. The Poetic Edda is the name given to an untitled collection of old Norse poems and tales. The Prose Edda is more akin to a textbook on the Poetic Edda.
@@noctugal yeah but snorri compiled them and put them all in written text. Everythinh was verbal legends till then he wrote them all down. He literally wrote the book.
He wrote only the Prose Edda as far as anyone can tell. The Poetic Edda is from the same time period, but unlike the Prose Edda it's never been confirmed that he compiled those tales, though he did certainly reference and quote them heavily in the Prose Edda. Though, if he did compile them, he was not the progenitor of those tales, hence the discrepancies between the actual old Norse poems and Snorri's interpretations in the Prose Edda. The whole thing is a bit confusing though!
@@noctugal fair enough :)
TIN FOIL HAT FLOATS ONTO HEAD,
Lamentable: "adj. Inspiring or deserving of lament or regret; deplorable or pitiable"
Human Bone Shard item description:
"Fragment of bone with dun mottling.
Material used for crafting items.
Found by hunting Those Who Live in Death.
Lamentably brittle, it crumbles at the lightest caress."
Skeletal Militiamen Ashes desc:
"Ashen remains in which spirits yet dwell.
Use to summon the spirits of two skeletal militiamen.
These are the spirits of militiamen who live in Death, and will continue to rise again until properly finished off.
This is the grotesque fate of those who come into contact with Deathroot."
Skeletal Bandit Ashes desc:
"Ashen remains in which spirits yet dwell.
Use to summon the spirits of a skeletal bandit.
These are the spirits of bandits who live in Death, and will continue to rise again until properly finished off.
After the night of the plot, Deathroot appeared in the Lands Between, and Those Who Live in Death soon followed."
As for why bones, I think it may have to do with that being one of the only remaining parts of a body left after a long period of decomposition.
As for lamentable, I think it may have to do with their fate not being able to truly die. This leads me to think maybe this act of possessing skeletons is not something they originally did, but maybe something they had to do after death was taken out of the lands between.
Perhaps the skeletons are significant because the skeletons no longer have an identity, there aren't actually any named humanoid skeletal characters that are specifically named, there are no boss skeletal enemies besides the Tibia Mariner, but Tibia is a bone and Mariner means sailor I think. (I think deathbirds are skeletal-ish) Compared to dark souls which had bosses like Nito and Wolnir. The only thing named for the skeletons is their occupation [ref to descriptions above].
It's interesting that the locations with a strong presence of the Helphen are the same place the Godwyn's body will primarily take root and produce his eyes around the world, makes me wonder if Godwyn is being driven towards it.
REMOVES TIN FOIL HAT
At 2 minutes you say Celtic mythology forms the basis for Norse mythology. Patently false.
One might say they have a common ancestor, but they’re quite clearly different and contain original ideas that are not found in the other, suggesting isolated development.
I was primarily referring to the common Germanic origins between the two, as well as the fact Celtic mythology predates Norse mythology, and many similarities can be found between the two, not that Norse mythology necessarily used Celtic mythology as the sole foundation for their stories and Gods. Though, the groups did come in contact so there was likely some cross-pollination of ideas between the two.
Just look at bloodborne
That shit is literally inspired by hp lovecraft
Even one of the dlc areas is made from one of his stories
Fromsoftware Is good at using inspiration in its games
I wonder if Radahn went Helphen? He is the only demigod who died in battle.(Radahn Festival)
Overall, I think the video was well made. However I did find it disappointing that your explanation of the Norse Eddas and some of the myths was not accurate. I would advise doing some more thorough research in the future, I think you have good potential but it's difficult for me to overlook wrong information being presented confidently as facts.
Just to name some major ones in the very beginning:
We have almost no idea what Norse mythology was actually like. All we have are the Eddas which were written by Christians hundreds of years after the last practitioners of the Norse religion had died. We have reason to suspect some of the stories and poems are older than others based on linguistic evidence, but nothing concrete. This goes for both the poetic and prose Eddas. Presenting the poetic Edda as somehow being the basis for Norse religion is patently ridiculous, and comparing it to the Iliad or the Odyssey which predate the Classical Greek period by centuries is absurd. It is closer in time to Shakespeare's plays than the Viking period.
The prose Edda was redacted by Snorri, and he may have adapted some existing stories that he knew, but the bulk of the material is clearly pre-extant, so presenting the prose Edda as some kind of whole-cloth invention by Snorri is also misleading. He was not trying to create some kind of canon for the Norse religion, he was just presenting old stories, he had no problem with contradictions because the stories are never meant to be taken literally.
Saying that Celtic mythology is the basis for Norse mythology is another very basic mistake that I believe you are better than committing. The two cultures co-existed and influenced each other, but they are still very separate. They are both very poorly attested, and only by Christians many centuries after conversion, so I suppose they have that in common, but one did not spawn the other.
The Baldur myth has him being killed by trickery, not in battle. In the Gylfaginning it is plainly stated that those who die in battle go to Valhalla. Dying a gruesome and painful death is not enough, since it is plainly stated that those who die of illness or other things go to Hel.
All of this is just in the first five minutes, I was not able to watch any further. I might come back and check some other videos of yours in a few months, I believe that if you take the research and accuracy more seriously this could be a great channel, but just making things up and loosely connecting dots is not enough.
Val= choice höll= palace. Valhöll is the hall of the chosen valhalla is a wierd word said by english speaking people.
Valr (Val) =slain
Judging from Valkyrja meaning Val - slain and kyrja- choose.
Choice palace(hall) makes less sense as a compound word.
Any etymological sources for it suggest “slain” is the accepted translation. I haven’t seen choice brought up as a suggestion until your comment.
@@jacksonhoerster3966 in icelandic val means to choose something thu hefur val= you have a choice.
@@davieinarsson3183 Val í valhöll kemur ekki frá rótinni að velja heldur frá valur sem þýðir fallinn, þannig valhöll þýðir höll hinna föllnu.
@@gudmundur-heimisson takk fyrir vissi thad ekki.