I agree, at least with your point that many stones are inaccurately claimed to have been mounted. Although a lot of the specifics regarding NA tools and weapons remain a mystery, the difficulty of securing a 5-lb stone to a stick and then carrying and using it is easy to see.
Very interesting theory. My family has property with lots of Native American artifacts. One particularly nice specimen is an “axe.” It is highly polished with a groove around its entire circumference. I was recently pondering how it was hafted and I just couldn’t settle on a way that made sense. It seems too thick and unnecessarily cumbersome. In addition, the heel of the stone looks to be heavily used, but not the blade. It began making more sense to me that the stone was a hand tool, maybe a Mano? Or perhaps just an in-hafted axe. Your proposition will make me take a closer look.
Lenny, hands hold everything. Tools were not used enough to produce hand or especially finger polish. An adze or groved axe would be used longer than flake tools. Flake tools used for one task doesn't have finger holds or grips worn into it nor was it intentional.
I'm trying to picture how I would chop something holding these stones in the position you are showing. If held the other way the polish would be elsewhere. Perhaps a demostration would help.
Well I guess it’s my turn to add my two cents for what it’s worth I don’t necessarily believe grooved axes were held in the hand for one thing there is not enough leverage or force to be able to chop wood of any great quantities this way. The next thing is what about all the axes They have been found in dry caves and in the deserts of our southwest that actually still have hafting still on them. Why would an individual spend all that time grooving a stone and then putting it in his hand and not Halfting it. Just my two cents.
I'm always interested in an idea that goes against conventional belief. An idea someone publishes becomes accepted as if it's factual information, when it is actually just another - earlier- idea which (also) makes sense. Then someone else comes along with a new idea and everyone jumps on the "how ridiculous... Everyone knows it's this other way" bandwagon as if they have some personal knowledge on the idea. They're idea came from the same place everyone elses idea came from: earlier published accounts on the subject. And there we, as a species, sit in stagnation never moving forward in our understanding of our own past. It's bizarre to me how this occurs with almost every area of science and/or history. Your ideas make sense. You obviously have a lot of personal experience with the objects themselves, and have spent a lot of time making sense of your ideas to yourself (a time consuming process, I know). And now, thanks to your videos, they make sense to (some) others as well. Keep it up.
Outstanding collection !! Ummm the theories on using them tho..good Maine weed..it's always good to think out of the box and present new ideas that's how science advances..but..ummm..ya..next !!
I have one that was found by the red river in the lockport area of Manitoba that has four finger marks (grooves) adding to the theory about them not being hefted. I saw one for sale on ebay years back that was found down in the states that looked exactly the same as the one I have that was found here. It had the four finger grooves and it looked so similar to the one I have I swear it had to have been made by the same guy. Where were your artifacts found? I also have a roller pestle similar to the ones you have, mine is shaped like a grain of rice about a foot long. the pestle appears to made of slate or some other type of black stone. I thought mine was rare but there you got a bunch of them. I found an arrow head as a kid and now I'm always watching the ground. my last fishing trip I found an ancient bison horn that had washed out of the bank.
I have a huge collection of war axes from an ancient battle site. I can show you several ways axes were hafted besides grooved stones. My site is a mineral lick and has preserved a lot of wood and bone handles. The most amazing ones to me are where stones were placed into live sycamore roots and grown over to be harvested later. These stones have holes in them and grooves cut for the tree to grow into
It’s awesome you found these but even our ancestors understood the lever! 😂
I agree, at least with your point that many stones are inaccurately claimed to have been mounted. Although a lot of the specifics regarding NA tools and weapons remain a mystery, the difficulty of securing a 5-lb stone to a stick and then carrying and using it is easy to see.
🎉
If they are held by hand, I wonder what they could have been effectively used for? A hafted axe makes much more sense for versatility. To me anyway.
that "all of a sudden change" is called discovering the "lever"
Very interesting theory. My family has property with lots of Native American artifacts. One particularly nice specimen is an “axe.” It is highly polished with a groove around its entire circumference. I was recently pondering how it was hafted and I just couldn’t settle on a way that made sense. It seems too thick and unnecessarily cumbersome. In addition, the heel of the stone looks to be heavily used, but not the blade. It began making more sense to me that the stone was a hand tool, maybe a Mano? Or perhaps just an in-hafted axe. Your proposition will make me take a closer look.
They could attach all projectile points to wooden shafts but not axes?
Some people are still dreaming.
Amazing Scientific Method !
Lenny, hands hold everything. Tools were not used enough to produce hand or especially finger polish. An adze or groved axe would be used longer than flake tools. Flake tools used for one task doesn't have finger holds or grips worn into it nor was it intentional.
I'm trying to picture how I would chop something holding these stones in the position you are showing. If held the other way the polish would be elsewhere. Perhaps a demostration would help.
Well I guess it’s my turn to add my two cents for what it’s worth I don’t necessarily believe grooved axes were held in the hand for one thing there is not enough leverage or force to be able to chop wood of any great quantities this way. The next thing is what about all the axes They have been found in dry caves and in the deserts of our southwest that actually still have hafting still on them. Why would an individual spend all that time grooving a stone and then putting it in his hand and not Halfting it. Just my two cents.
Where are your Artifacts found, what state sir??
I'm always interested in an idea that goes against conventional belief. An idea someone publishes becomes accepted as if it's factual information, when it is actually just another - earlier- idea which (also) makes sense. Then someone else comes along with a new idea and everyone jumps on the "how ridiculous... Everyone knows it's this other way" bandwagon as if they have some personal knowledge on the idea. They're idea came from the same place everyone elses idea came from: earlier published accounts on the subject. And there we, as a species, sit in stagnation never moving forward in our understanding of our own past. It's bizarre to me how this occurs with almost every area of science and/or history. Your ideas make sense. You obviously have a lot of personal experience with the objects themselves, and have spent a lot of time making sense of your ideas to yourself (a time consuming process, I know). And now, thanks to your videos, they make sense to (some) others as well. Keep it up.
Outstanding collection !! Ummm the theories on using them tho..good Maine weed..it's always good to think out of the box and present new ideas that's how science advances..but..ummm..ya..next !!
Bro come on
I have one that was found by the red river in the lockport area of Manitoba that has four finger marks (grooves) adding to the theory about them not being hefted. I saw one for sale on ebay years back that was found down in the states that looked exactly the same as the one I have that was found here. It had the four finger grooves and it looked so similar to the one I have I swear it had to have been made by the same guy. Where were your artifacts found? I also have a roller pestle similar to the ones you have, mine is shaped like a grain of rice about a foot long. the pestle appears to made of slate or some other type of black stone. I thought mine was rare but there you got a bunch of them. I found an arrow head as a kid and now I'm always watching the ground. my last fishing trip I found an ancient bison horn that had washed out of the bank.
I have a huge collection of war axes from an ancient battle site. I can show you several ways axes were hafted besides grooved stones. My site is a mineral lick and has preserved a lot of wood and bone handles. The most amazing ones to me are where stones were placed into live sycamore roots and grown over to be harvested later. These stones have holes in them and grooves cut for the tree to grow into
Wow...very nice collection!!!
In new to all this … but actually like this view