I'd rather have a compact ICE sedan or hatchback. That way I won't have to bother about replacing multiple batteries at the same time, especially considering that the batteries of the Leaf degrade pretty quickly.
@damilolaakanni The batteries have already degraded over time, there will be little additional degradation now, and the limited range is sufficient for those who drive short distances. Many people just use a car for local shopping and errands, and many families have another car for longer journeys
I use a 2011 LEAF with 8 bars left as a town runabout. It's quick off the line, easy to maneuver, fits a week's groceries, and I don't care about door dings.
Own a 2014 leaf sl, live in western nc. Dont need a garage to charge, we trickle charge overnight from outlet on porch. Wake up to a full charge, as a retired couple this car has and contiunes to serve us well, 7 years of no maintenance, just rotate tires, replace wiper blades and in cabin filter. Our 4x4 suv is used so little we only fill the tank once a year! Still have 11 bars, perfect run around car for us. 😊
Hang on, you’re completely missing a big part of the story here: Yes, the 2011 - 2012 are a hard pass, but starting around March 2013, they greatly improved the battery and added an optional heat pump. I bought a used 2013 in 2017 and it has been a wonderful commuter car here in the Pacific NW. The whole family loves it, and now my son drives it to college every day, and the battery is still at 80% of its original capacity. The realistic 100% range is still 70+ miles. This is surely helped by the mild weather here and the fact that we always limit the charge to 80%. If you do your research, you can get a great first EV / commuter car with a used Leaf. (Just please don’t buy a new one. There are way better EVs out there now).
Same boat.. PNW more inland :). bought a 2014 with 60k miles and 11/12 capacity... family loves using it for bouncing around town. I lived on a 110v charger all its life, so we are doing the same and it's been great! :). My teenage sons are learning to drive in and and they are looking forward to using it for commuting. :) The value is there, especially in the cooler climates. At one point I had a 2015 Leaf and but studded snows all around and it was a TANK in the winter... I enjoyed the commute on ice and snow with the leafs better than my f150 ;).
Totally agree!! Bought my 2013 Leaf SV in 2017 and in December '21 at 91k miles I paid $4k for a battery upgrade to 30 KWh pack from a wrecked 2017 and now my car is every bit as good as new with 112k miles. And bonus it has already paid for itself and the battery upgrade. I am way up in the PNW and this is the perfect climate to make these cheap compliance EVs last seemingly forever!
I feel like Nissan Leafs get a lot hate because of the early first generation cars ( and the chademo plug ). I have a 2022 Plus model and after a year and a half, the battery capacity meter hasn't gone down at all yet. Mind you I live in Florida and I fast charge all the time. The Chademo plug has not proven to be as big of a problem as people say (in fact for me it hasn't been a problem at all) however it will probably be something to worry about in the future here- hopefully no less than five years or something but we'll see. I would have liked a CCS port though.
@@kellenniles4581 At the moment, the Chademo port is almost a benefit, since a lot of stations have at least one and they’re rarely in use. (Not that I’m going to try to road trip my decade-old Leaf, lol!)
@@-Jethro- To my knowledge every CCS station has at least one CHAdeMO port. I have heard people talking about chademo being on its way out for years but CHAdeMO is literally everywhere and at all of the CCS stations so I don't understand what those people are talking about. I have heard Electrify America is no longer adding CHAdeMO stations though- I don't know if any other charging companies followed suit.
One thing I will give Nissan credit for is battery health transparency. No manufacturer made it as easy as they did to glance at the dash and see overall health of the pack. Loved my 2015 but I don't see how the economics work out for battery replacement unless you get the car for next to nothing.
Yeah that cracks me up - do you need to see it every time you drive? It should be a sub menu. It’s only going to change 5-8 times in the cars entire existence. It should not be on a dashboard!!
Except...the warranty is based on those bars (activates after bar 9 is lost). The bars themselves are not equal divisions of 100%, which creates an opaque measurement for when the warranty can be expected. My 2017 LEAF has 11/12 bars, but only has a capacity of 22.3kwh/30kwh. That a 26% battery degradation and I've only lost 1/12th of my capacity towards a warranty claim. That borders on fraudulent behavior, IMO.
It’s called you get a aftermarket warranty that covers it up to 250,000 miles. You get a free battery replacement. It cost maybe three grand a year for the warranty as soon as you get your battery replaced dump the warranty sell the car for what you bought itand it has a brand new Nissan battery
Good news about the Nissan Leaf. I own both a 15 and a 16 Nissan Leaf. the 15 has 54K and still has 11 bars. It was from the San Francisco area and was never DC fast charged. My wife and I live in the Washington State and my wife will drive this Leaf all day long and still go over 80 miles in her daily commutes. If She uses freeway only, the range will degrade to about 60. Around town is the key. For example, our newer 16 Leaf has 43K on it and still has all 12 battery life meter bars. If I drive around town and no freeway. I can go over 90 miles on one charge. It's an amazing bargain if you have a secondary vehicle for out of town trips, only use the Leaf for daily short commutes, and then plug in at home with a level 1 or 2 charger. Gas prices here in Washington state are hovering around 5 bucks a gallon, but my wife hasn't had to use a drop of gas in the last 6 months since owning the Leaf. They are peppy quiet and comfortable and can be had for under 8K. On a side note, I almost bought a third 2015 Leaf at auction. It had over 120K on it and still had 10 battery life bars. I was hoping to get for under 2k, but it went for 3k.
Great first car. My husband and I Purchased a 2014 Leaf for my daughter to get back and forth from school. Paid $2800 from a nice gentleman has 8 bars 70 miles @ 100%. Charge it at home, hardly noticeable on my electricity bill. I live in So Cal, got the Edison rebate $4000 (you do the math). Car drives perfectly made $1000 off of this car. My daughter loves her leaf. And the added bonus is me and my hubby don’t have to fork out gas $.
I've owned a 2015 Leaf for 5 years, which I got for $10k and I've put about 30k miles on it. I'm still waiting for that degradation that's been promised. Still at 11 bars like when i bought it. The ultimate in affordable, reliable and practical semi-urban transportation. Less flaky doing car things than my Rivian.
I got my 2014 Leaf for about $4k, and it's done 80k miles on the clock. Still got 11/12 battery health bars, which is about 75 mile range @ 30mph (45 miles @ 70mph).
@@JustSomePerson8Waw! How many bars do you have? What year is the car and size of battery? Can you provide more details of the car? Also where you live for an understanding of climate.
My buddy has a 2014 Leaf with 100k miles, and he has 10/12 bars of battery health and 71 miles of range. That is Insane. 10 years later and the battery has 80% health.
I own a 2011 Nissan Leaf .. gives me 40 miles full charge .. it's a Great car to go to work if you live close by .. I charge it every 4 days .. and the cost to buy one was only $2500.. saying that .. before buying this car over s month ago I was paying $135 a week on Gas on my truck.. close to $500 a month .. plus maintenance.. your looking at $6k a year .. owning the leaf over a month has been awesome..passing gas pumps in California for $5.89 a gallon .. and this car has a awesome stereo .. great speakers and XM radio .. don't listen you this guy ..it's worth it.. for short communtes around town .. for long distance..keep your other car .. but short distance .. BEST CAR EVER
im planning to buy one used 2013 for 8800 usd, 10 bars battery and mint condition inside and outside, im spending each week about 45 usd a week on bmw x5 2001 so for me it will be a huge upgrade from money standpoint i will spend about 8 usd a week on extra electricity to run the same 140 kms i run from monday to saturday
Many people buy these cheap and swap them with the newer 40kwh or 62kwh batteries that get around 200 miles of range, totally costing about 14k "ready to ride". The new batteries are exactly the same shape and size as the old ones and companies like Ingenex make conversion plug kits for it.
Personally, I think that's a really bad idea. The Leaf gen 1 suspension is not designed to take the weight of a huge battery and you'd be better just picking up a used gen 2 Leaf now.
Me and the missus have bought one over here in England. It's only got a range of roughly 60 miles but its more than enough for what i use it for. I live very close to work so i can walk it in 15 minutes but I've been using this a lot lately with the awful weather as well as doing local journeys (shopping/swimming etc) and we can't fault it! We're only charging it on the home charger when it gets to 15-20 miles so fingers crossed it'll last. We've got a diesel Kia Ceed we use if we need to go any further. The range isn't great, but if you're only using it locally you can't beat it!
Only the 2011 and 2012 had severe battery issues. I bought a 2013 model S five years ago it's still at 10 bars. Still goes 70 miles in the summer, less in the cold. Best car I've ever owned. Only spent $120 on charging for 25,000 miles due to free charging at work. Only spent $200 in maintenance including tires (I buy barely used ones from CL and Facebook Marketplace).
I just bought a 2012 24kvh car gone 100 000 km with 12 of 12 bars. I paid about $6500 for the car (NOK 69900). It can go about 150 km in summer. I am OK with it!
Tommy you missed the fact that it is a perfect cheap vehicle that costs almost nothing to run and would be ideal for the proverbial old lady who uses it for grocery trips and chuch on Sundays.😊 Some offices also have charging available, which could make this a good commuter vehicle.
@thenutsonyourchin that's quite reasonable, I heard previously it was much more expensive. Depending on your area, there may be third parties that replace the pack or offer upgraded packs for some models.
@@thenutsonyourchin that's not a bad deal, as you can likely find older models in good condition with low prices due to a degraded pack. The car is practical and comfortable, with a large hatch and cargo space with seats folded
@thenutsonyourchin yes, this was a biased and overly negative review of a vehicle that would be great for many people. There aren't many truly affordable used EVs on the market, and they shouldn't discourage people from considering this car.
But someone said 7-8$ per charge, i can get 100km with that in gas, which is about the same range for a used leaf it not slight more, so charging this thing is actually more expensive then gas? hmmm definatley not 10x cheaper, unless you find free power like solar or whatever
I love the LEAF! I had a 2013 SV. Fastcharged the battery pack down 2 bars in just 2 years, and sold it to a guy with a short commute in town. I should have never sold that car! I would definitely buy another one for $1k. One thing about the LEAF I love is Nissan KNOWS how to make a car. This car has a respectably comfy interior with appropriate functionality. I’m not a fan of all these copycat touchscreen EVs hitting the marketplace. That stuff is a nuisance to deal with, especially while driving.
For a battery replacement, a 62 kWh long range upgrade will set one back approximately $16k. Basically a Chevy Bolt upgrade, with well over 200 miles, for $18k - $20k (car + battery upgrade). A flop for resale value, but a bargain as a daily driver. Curious if anyone attempted this.
I think that's a great deal. $16K for a new "car" the battery! The wheels work, wipers, doors, audio speakers, heated seats and steering wheel. Just need a newer batter pack
That's why I did my due diligence before purchasing my Leaf. In the 80s I went for a ride in a converted ICE vehicle and was sold on the concept. I waited until the lizard battery came out. I found one that had all the battery bars for less than $10,000 in 2016. I was told I couldn't make long trips, but I did make a trip of 1,600 miles, round trip, early on. The Leaf is now 10 years old with over 126,000 miles and 25% degradation. At this point I don't take long trips and 50 miles is more than adequate for my needs as a retiree. I was looking to the future when I wouldn't drive as much. Most driving is 12 to 24 miles a day. It may be the last car I own. It's a great little car for charging at home and local traveling. The new Leaf has longer range and would make a less expensive alternative here in the Northwest. I don't see a battery swap as totaling the vehicle, but as a being a less expensive alternative to buying a new car. I don't view an item that loses value year after year an investment. I purchased it as I knew it would be less expensive to operate. It has served me well.
I wish there was a way to remove the Leaf from average EV battery longevity studies. You just know this car alone drags that number down way more than it would be otherwise.
@@directorjustinGood luck, some cars lie about the capacity of the battery, but it's not a bad thing. If I charge to only 80% but have 125% of listed capacity it shows as full 100% but over time as the battery looses capacity I can increase the charge level to counteract the loss. The limiting to 80% charge can double your cycle life and underrating means at 20% loss of capacity it still looks like it's lost nothing. This is one way to give a 10 year 80% capacity warranty on battery with cells that have a 600-800 cycle life.
Owning 2013 Leaf S with Chademo since 2020 in Ukraine, did 28k miles on it already. All time with A/C on, without ECO and without 'slow driving', just enjoying the car. When bought it was 83.5% SOH (18kw/h usable) and now 76% SOH (16.8kw/h ~ usable). 99% of time charge to 100% but never was discharging it to 'turtle' state, never left it even for a day being charged to 100% or discharged less than 20%, like 99% of charges made at home with 220V with it's own brick (which charges around 2.2kw/h). The only problem I was experiencing - it's suspension. Car has 86000 miles on it by this time. Big part missed is difference between 2011-2012 and 2013-2017 cars and of course the one with 30kwt battery. ZE0 - 11-12', AZE0 - 13-17', BZE0 - 13-17' but with 30kwt. ZE0 is the worst one, it looks identical visually but technically it's just another car, another battery chemistry (and another battery case/connections as well), another motor, another charger, another wiring, just really different car and it's degradation yeah, not good at all + charger is known to be 'fried' and find a replacement is an expensive headache, in fact any spare part which is different from AZE0 is hard and expensive to find. But starting from AZE0 it's really different, battery much more reliable (as for me my stats are not bad and I've seen plenty of better ones here with same age), charger is reliable and can handle up to 6.6kw/h AC (seems as a joke nowdays but it's better than default 3.3), anything not related to battery/bodywork is quite easy and cheap to find (maybe except suspension, even though it's simple it still quite pricy), heater works like immediately + if it is a SV/SL trim you get efficient heat pump which reduces power usage for heating approx by 15-20%. For most people in US I guess car under 10k is not a thing so Leaf should be avoided in this case but if you have only up to 8k for a car, charge plug at home and it fits your range - it is just pefrect. Air cooling will be a problem only for extreme hot temperatures and if you are using more than 1 DC charge in a row. For all time all problems I had is with suspension (I guess our shity roads also aaffected it :D) and that's it, after fixing suspension it became just perfect for my needs again. Next one will be tesla for sure but that's some time later. P.s. As for BZE0 (the one with 30kwt pack) should be avoided at all costs, Nissan really failed with software and these cars were degrading super fast because of it, they had a campaign but not a lot of cars been 'updated' since you can't just do it by yourself as in Tesla, a lot of cars still on old firmware + after update battery still already degraded, in other parts - it's the same as AZE0.
My sister owns one of those early Nissan Leafs in New Zealand. She has a 10-minute commute and that's all she needs. Her husband has a more recent Leaf which has a lot more range but is still not much good for road trips. I think these early EV's can be useful as city runabouts if you want to save money on gas and just have a good reliable car. You get what you pay for. You can of course upgrade the battery pack to get more range, if you can find a third-party shop that does those conversions using a battery pack from a later model salvage vehicle, but you have to get that done at the right price to justify doing that instead of just buying another used EV with better range like a Chevy Bolt or maybe an early Model S.
I bought my 2011 used a year ago. Its got over 100k miles on it. Fully charged the battery gets 65 miles. It hasent fallen at all since we got it. Maybe four times a year we use a fast charger but for the majority of the time its plugged into 110. It drives about 20 miles a day, usually has heat or ac on. If its really cold or hot out ill even leave it running and locked to go shopping. Oh. Also, ive never had to change the oil in it.
I was originally looking for a 2015-2017 LEAF with only up to 2 bars lost on the battery SOH for a cheap commuting car when a 2017 Bolt came up on my search. I researched the VIN and found it hadn't gotten the battery recall done yet which I made the dealer take care of before purchasing. Now I have a 2017 Bolt with a brand new battery. Now if I can only get the dealer to file with the IRS so I get my $4000 it will have only costed me $16k.
So let’s say you get this car for 2500, spend 4,000 for a new upgraded battery. You still have a super cheap EV with low miles. I don’t think it sounds so bad with todays car prices. Would I do it? Nope haha
I bought my 2012 leaf with 3 bars for 2K and had a used 10 Bar battery installed for 4k. It takes me to work and back every day. Its like driving for free.
@@PremiumFuelOnly but someone said it cost them $7-$8 per charge, thats not exactly free, and if youre getting 60 miles per charge, a 40mpg gas engine is cheaper per 60miles then this EV. Unless i got the math wrong. I guess theres cheaper maintenance. Also you can charge free with solar or whatever where you dont have that option with gas.
Loved my Leaf. Taking care of that battery is key. Slow AC charge it, keep it out of the sun and heat as much as you can and the batteries will live a lot longer. The price to replace these batteries is still very high and while you can get a larger capacity battery for them the cost will still be questionable. One of the glaring deficiencies in the EV market are the shops that do the repairs. It is a problem that is only going to grow. Insurance companies too often are salvaging vehicles because they can't get them recertified and repaired so they write them off. The new Leaf being sold today is still air cooled. I don't know what changes Nissan has made to address the degradation in the currently sold new cars, but I don't hear as much complaining today. It is dead end technology. Nissan needs a serious update to this car which it does not appear they will be doing. While not a good idea to DCFC these things much to add insult to injury the DCFC plug is Chademo so there aren't as many places to charge when away. You have to make sure the Leaf is even equipped with the DCFC plug because it wasn't standard equipment until later. If you only drive local short distances, can keep the vehicle garaged and out of the heat, and AC slow charge it the Leaf with a new battery would still work for people, but that is a lot of conditions to be met for it to make sense now.
The problem with buying these now particularly at auction is a buyer doesn’t know if you were the prior owner or someone who DC charged it to 100% every day in 100 degree temperature after driving it hard 50 miles
@@Jeddin But you can learn that information in 10 seconds with the Leaf Spy Pro app and a bluetooth OBD2 adapter. I know that my 2013 has been DC fast charged just 5 times EVER, but has over 9k slow charge cycles.
That is going to be a "new thing" with used EV's. When you buy an ICE, you try to understand the frequency of oil changes, timing belts and whatnot. With EV's you are going to need to understand how it was charged, when and how often. Was the battery cooling system maintained, etc. All of this will determine the used value of the car/truck.
Aside from the lack of active battery thermal management our Leaf has been pretty solid. It’s a 2016 S. We did have the battery replaced under warranty and got upgraded to a 40 kWh. But I attribute that to the 30 kWh battery chemistry not being great for FL heat. The 24 kWh batteries seem to do better here. I have been told the 40 kWh has the better chemistry so I should be fine. I don’t intend to ever sell our Leaf. It suits our needs for like 80% driving. Sucks fast DC is chademo. I wish more electric cars were simple like the leaf. I don’t need massive screens, self driving, massage seats. Just a car that’s electric.
We bought a 2012 four years ago for $7500, basically the money we saved on gas has paid for the car. The only issues have window wash sprayer and 2 of the windows no longer work. Other than a new set of tires, I have put no $$$ into maintenance. It still gets around 70 miles on a full charge and its a perfect car for my wife who just does running around town errands and we charge it at night just using normal 120v outlet. So while it might not work for everyone, it's still a very good 2nd running around town car.
The Leaf is a hard sell, especially the one you have in this video. 30 miles of range is pretty useless. Until replacement batteries are cheap (assuming $10k to replace this battery??), its a hard pass for me.
I love my 2015 leaf but also 100% agree with your take, I would never recommend someone buy one, but as a third commuter car if they really know what they are doing or if they've researched and come to the decision on their own that it could be a good car for them... but recommending one would be insane.
Not air cooled, I made that mistake too. It's passively cooled, no air is directed across the cells. The Toyota Prius hybrid battery has a fan, and can be considered air cooled. I have no idea if air conditioned air is required to be "air cooled". Does conditioned cabin air in the Prius count?
I bought one for 1200 and it’s got 19 miles range but it really can only go about less than half that because when there is 8 miles left it warning light go on for low battery. Also I can’t use AC or heat otherwise I can only gos a few miles maybe 4 at the most so it is mainly used within Les than 3 miles radius
The other negative is Chademo. With everyone moving over the NACS the lone Chademo connector at EA stations is going to be replaced with the CCS connector
You really shouldn’t be fast charging a Leaf very often, regardless of the connector type. If you need to fast charge more than a couple times per year, the Leaf is probably not the right car for your needs.
Plenty of people still changing batteries in these cars. Not for reselling but their own use. 2-3k for battery replacement is better then 20-30k for new car. And they are well equipped. PS: You can sell the old battery to someone for home solar battery. At 50% (~10kw remaining) the battery's still are selling pretty well.
Bought a 2012 leaf and its great for me, i live in a small town and only need 15 to 20miles a day, if i need more i plug it in while im working and its back up to 40mike range Kept my old gas car for longer trips but it mainly sits, ill use it once a week just to run it, so im saving a lot on fuel and maintenance and not dependent on gas prices, next i get solar installed on the gouse and it all works for the best:)
i love the leaf, i have a blue 2012, repairing them is easy and cheap especially for people (like me) if i was rich I'd buy all of them. its seems this one in the video has a EV and brake system issue just like mine had and it was super cheap to fix, dont believe the hype about them being super expensive to fix. other than the traction battery especially from a nissan dealer. right now I'm working on a cheap solution for the battery.
These still typically have 10-12 bars here in northern Norway because they don't suffer heat damage. Great daily drivers. A used 12/12 bar battery costs The equivalent to $2300. It's not expensive to replace them. It's super easy for any shop that has a two post lift.
So on the opposite end of the spectrum what is the cheapest reliable EV you can get nowadays particularly one that has a liquid cooled battery and a heat pump?
I've had a 2015 leaf for a few months and the LeafSpy app tells me the efficiency of the original battery is 81.92%. Used parts are increasingly available on the market and many YT videos allow known faults to be repaired. I love everything about this car, except the front headlights which give it a Kermit the frog look.
You don't like the headlights, but you're ok with the homely rear end? I'm trying to be family friendly with that description, but dang, they whupped that thing's azz with a big ugly stick when it was designed. I can live with the front though.
My max trip is 20 miles one way and I have a 60 mile range on mine. It is 10 years old so as long as I don’t cook it by dc charging on a hot day, it should last a long time. I also almost never pay for public charging unless the price is the same or less than home charging. The Tesla drivers pay three times more when supercharging while I never DC charge. This is a great car if your max range is three times your max one way trip.
I think you missed the *other* major, expensive fault with these cars: the On Board Charger. The 2010-2013 Leaf on-board charger is known to fail and is an expensive fix. If you're lucky and have the know-how, it can be repaired cheaply with a bit of work, but a full replacement is over $3k. When the on board charger fails, you can only charge the car on DC ChaDeMo. You won't be able to charge at home. Otherwise a fair review. I have a 2012 Leaf, which I bought in July last year. It has just dropped to 9 bars. So far so good with it. It does help that it is from a cooler climate (Canberra, Australia) and only has 53,000km on the clock. Now that it's in Sydney it's degrading mildly faster but it only does occasional short trips now. Love mine, but agree that the first gen leaf should be avoided. And the fact that new leafs STILL come with no thermal management and ChaDeMo is appalling, which is why when we bought our new EV this year we picked the BYD Atto 3 (which has been fabulous). It's a pity, because the Nissan is the OG, it's the grand daddy, and it is damn well built. Oh, the heater in the Leaf is grossly inefficient. It'll sap range something fierce. I've seen mine draw 4500 Watts, compared to my Atto's heat pump drawing a little over 1000 at worst.
Would DC Fast charging the 2016 Nissan Leaf in the evenings out of direct sunlight but in still very warm temps like 80 degrees, still encourage battery degradation? (I live in Las Vegas) and these models are now available between 6K to 8K depending on the miles and at that price it's tempting with gasoline approaching 5.00 a gallon next year.
I recall going to a big Nissan event in 2010 where the public was allowed to ride in the new Leaf. When asked about the lack of thermal management the Nissan guy stood in front of the big crowd and said this just shows how far ahead Nissan is over their competitors. Battery thermal management systems is a “crutch” used by other manufactures to overcome weaknesses in battery engineering, Nissan is decades ahead of the other guys who are struggling to catch up.
Ummmm, NO. In fact, the newest Nissan EV (Aria) is middling at best (at least its better than the, out of the gate, already obsolete Toyota BZ4). Hyundai, American and German manufacturers have much better EV technology. Nissan basically squandered its early lead since the leaf was not a serious production effort but rather a CAFE compliance model.
That meter adjust to how you drive. I got a 2015 with 70+ thousand miles that usually says I got 63-67 miles, and my battery has lost a bar. I always drive with the radio and AC on. My old man never used that stuff and it always said 80, now 70 with the bar loss. I live around 10 miles from Walmart, the supermarket, Homedept, my sisters house etc. This car is perfect for that. That battery is clearly more degraded then mine but I'd like to see what that range said full charge, that car said 40 minutes till full at 240. For 5 grand I'd buy that car for short in town trips if it said at least 40 miles range. What do you expect for 5 grand, your never gonna buy gas.
I bought this car brand new in 2015, never gave me a SINGLE issue. I still have it, the battery like any EV is slowly dying but it deserves some respect!
I could see replacing that original battery, with a cool upgrade...you can even install a 62kw battery!...that gives you over a 200mile range, and massive acceleration. But I am having trouble even finding companies that install such an upgrade!...Do they exist here in Washington State? Of course, it is expensive, around 10 grand total. Still, you would have a very quick, extended range vehicle. I love the quirky look of the first gen Leaf...someday, I will do this upgrade!
leaning more and more towards this vehicle for my first car when i turn 30. i live 5 miles from my job. i live in la, so the climate seems to be okay for it. the price tags is so pretty for a used one that i plan on getting one. can anyone give me advice?
I 100% agree with you on the fact that the Leaf alone has caused the majority of Anti-EV rhetoric and thinking, even among car people. Even today, when I mention getting an EV or something, it's always "But you'll have to spend $X thousands on a battery replacement in 5 years!" or "I couldn't imagine sitting and waiting over an hour for a charge to only go a hundred miles".
I just bought a 2016 Nissan Leaf & it still has 11 of it's 12 original bars, I bought this one specifically because of that & it was only $4,900 after tax credit so these used Leaf's are a great deal for a dependable electric car & it's fun to drive.
You should check out Dala's EV Repair channel to see his 1st gen. Leaf upgrades. You can get this car on the cheap and upgrade it to an amazing vehicle. Yes...that's right...people are already modding and hot rodding old EVs. A 62 kWh battery upgrade can give you a 232+ mile range, and upgrades to the inverter and gearbox can result in 215 hp from the original 110 hp. Now...will it cost some money? Sure, but you end up with a pretty decent car for less than buying a new one.
In Austin ive seen a handful of them for under 10k, which astounds me, a lot of them dont even have 100k miles on them, but since its an electric car it is where the problems start
Nissan or any manufacturer will not replace the battery, they will change the bad cell until the battery is within 80% or promised the percentage, not 100%. Be aware of that, do not expect them to give you a new or 100 percent chargeable battery.
True but the aftermarket get a 40 KW battery 60 KW battery I've seen them go up to 300 me on the charge. Get them out of a wrecked car with low mileage
I'm curious. If you can buy this car for $1000 how much would and aftermarket batter replacement cost. I assume with batter improvement the replacement would increase the range over the OEM battery from 10 years ago.
i have two volts, 12 and 13 years old, zero degradation, both have well over 100k miles on them. both are daily drivers saving my family a good amount of money. got them for about 7-8k each. the first one saved us 2,000usd the first 12 mo we owned it coz it was all we drove. its a shame nissan did such a poor job with the leaf. they all have so few miles on them for being as old as they are.
Leaf is a great car! As each "first of a kind" product you should know how to use it! Mine is 85 000 km 24kw and battery is 84% SOH. But I used as it is supposed to be used - city only, no fast charging, always keep battery between 20% to 80%. I'm pretty confident it will stand at least double the current mileage.
Perfect car for a student or old person, 1000 USD is a steal! And the fact that it still can drive with the original battery after around 12 years time is impressive. He forgot to mention that the car does not need repairs like mechanical cars. My 40kw version is 6 years old and has only lost 1/12 bars, and has drive about 110.000 miles on it. I am just going to ride it till it gets 12-15 years old and then get an EV with solid state battery perhaps used. I will at the end up 15 years time, have saved at least 20k USD on repairs and about 50k USD on gas. As a minimum, compared to my previous french mechanical car. Just don´t DC charge it, and only use it in areas that don´t have extreme heat and long distances, and then you have one of the best value cars ever.
Brilliant video, first of your reviews for me anyhow. Honest and transparant no nonsense review. Sad though that it "single handedly destroyed EVs reputation!"
No active battery cooling, on board charger failure is pretty common, battery costs more than a car that needs a battery, you have to use chademo to DCFC, the list goes on much further don’t buy a leaf.
I have a 2022 Leaf, and love it. Serves me perfectly, but that particular Leaf you are featuring with only 3 bars of battery life, I wouldn’t touch it. It starts off life with 12 bars, and with only 3, your estimate of 35 miles might be a little on the high side. If you got 20 miles out of that, you’d be lucky.
If you know what you can do with the car and if it fits to your driving profile the Leaf is a superb car. Furthermore it is one of the very few cars where it is pretty easy to repair or replace the battery. Lots of people out there who put a 40 or 60kWh battery in old 2012 to 2015 Leafs. Dala from Norway now has put his upgrade software and hardware open source, so if you are a little used to work with such stuff you can do the upgrade yourself.
Hate to agree but it’s true. For me the reasoning, and TFL will admit, they can’t factor in reliability to most recommendations. Example, every dodge product they’ve ever sworn by. 😂
I just bought one. $400 has about 20 miles ranges and some minor body damage. You can't even replace tires on a car for that, but I can commute to train station. They are one of the ugliest cars in history, certainly modern era. Would never buy one that was not essentially a free local commute. The new ones are actually rather good and not ugly.
I had a 2013 down to 5 bars out of warrantee... got a 2019 now at 10 bars I didn’t learn 😑 I have only 14,000 miles of warrantee remaining to get to under 9 bars for a new battery wish me luck!
To buy a GEN1 leaf, you need to KNOW how not to get a beat battery AND not plan on rapid charging it, or get it SO inexpensively that a replacement battery makes sense. And then you still have the convective-cooling only battery and don’t want to DCFC (ChaDeMo) more than rarely to protect the investment. NEED to get an SV WITH heat pump option or a ‘12 or newer SL (has heat pump) if you live where you need heat in the winter.
Well I gotten mine for a steal 1,500 dollars for mine 2014 Nissan Leaf with 69,122 miles total on it. However, my battery has only 6 bars I get about 42-50 miles full charge depreciated.
Just means u should check the bars before buying and buy according to needs. All tho some are a really though sell, even with my short commute. Oh and there is always a posibility of a super low range one having a dead cell which is cheaper to replace than a whole battery(tho it would still cost about a grand). So maybe bring Leafspy.
Buy a second hand battery pack out of a crash victim and necessary hardware/Software? Things are moving on rapidly though and it has been 13 years! I had a 2013 Leaf for commuting, not such an issue in UK, always scan with Leafspy to check overall battery SOH
Funny thing is you can actually use the original battery for your house as a battery backup. Then buy a newer 40kwh battery for a couple grand to upgrade it to get 200mi range
We have a 2015, no problems and electricity is basically free. Great little cars as long as you take care of them and dont expect to drive to the moon and back on a single charge.
I wish someone was out there converting these old Nissan leaves to mowers. Put some super wide tires on it and a PTO in the back to run a mower and my lawn of 2.5 acres would be done in about 10 passes lol
I had a 2012 Leaf and one cold February I had a full charge and only a 25km range with the heat on. So to get home I had to shut off the heat. I drove, frozen-fingered, teeth chattering and just barely made it home. As soon as I warmed up I said I had to get rid of this car and sold it a week later.
It’s their initial offering, it’s not expected to be perfect in any way. They were brave enough to introduce it & improve upon it. From the comments it seems as though it could still be a great option for certain people.
NOT air-cooled. There is NO FLOW of any cooling agent (not even air) through the battery pack. Convection of heat across case surface ONLY. That’s the problem. There ARE air-cooled batteries (early VW’s for example). Convection is the poorest cooling capability and is why old, GEN1 Leaf’s must be carefully checked for battery health.
Hello, by having a vehicle over 10 years old and a battery with a gross capacity of 24Kwh for 21Kwh useful, with more than 100,000km, there is a way to have a battery that is quite worn out... The manufacturers make guarantees which can indicate the probable degradation of the battery, for the leaf 24Kwh is 5 years or 100000Km, we can therefore deduce with this guarantee that the maximum loss of capacity over 5 years is 30%. If the loss of capacity is linear, we would have a 60% loss of capacity, fortunately this is not the case, we must rather be at a 45% loss of capacity. With a typical average consumption of 15Kwh/100Km, we can conclude that with the remaining 10 to 12Kwh, we can travel 77Km by draining the battery, moreover what I indicate is quite close to what you have on the meter. For a vehicle with such degradation it is preferable to change the battery with one having a larger capacity and recycle the old one into a stationary battery. This vehicle is therefore good to buy, as long as we know what we are going to do, so to say that we should not buy is a total mistake. Sincerely.
Nissan Leaf owners who have cars less than 8 years old- and in many cases WELL under 100,000 kms are having to scrap their cars because there is currently no repair nor replacement batteries available for them. Imagine a customer buying an electric vehicle believing that they are saving the environment only to find that their vehicle is considered scrap after less than 60,000 miles and 8 year’s worth of service. Most gas powered cars in production today should EASILY make it to over 200,000 kms and 15 years worth of use. As for other electric vehicles, the general consensus is that the vehicles are scrap once the battery is worn out because at that point, a replacement battery and the installation will surpass the value of the vehicle. Yes, there are some makes and models that provide better life from their vehicles, but those are offset by the ones that are write-offs because of what should be relatively simple repairs or battery failure.
Ppl underestimate the Nissan Leaf as an economic ev. There are battery upgrades available now giving much longer range than original. The caveat being these are suburban runabouts, not a long distance tourer.
Been that a 24 kwh battery is small compared to almost all todays EV's they should only be like $500 to replace with a new one when trading in the old battery for its second life use home battery storage or recycled to create a new one especially as new battery costs have fallen so much
Love love my 2016 Leaf. Totally disagreed with this review. Perfect for just driving around town with it. Same here : still have 11 bars and absolutely no maintenance. Just tires, windshield wipers and cabin filter. LOVE IT!!
This is a perfect teenager car, go to school and back with no frills. With a used car tax break they are almost free
Exactly, it would also be great for people that just use it for local shopping trips or errands.
I'd rather have a compact ICE sedan or hatchback. That way I won't have to bother about replacing multiple batteries at the same time, especially considering that the batteries of the Leaf degrade pretty quickly.
@damilolaakanni The batteries have already degraded over time, there will be little additional degradation now, and the limited range is sufficient for those who drive short distances. Many people just use a car for local shopping and errands, and many families have another car for longer journeys
I use a 2011 LEAF with 8 bars left as a town runabout. It's quick off the line, easy to maneuver, fits a week's groceries, and I don't care about door dings.
Cost more in tyres than fuel…
Own a 2014 leaf sl, live in western nc. Dont need a garage to charge, we trickle charge overnight from outlet on porch. Wake up to a full charge, as a retired couple this car has and contiunes to serve us well, 7 years of no maintenance, just rotate tires, replace wiper blades and in cabin filter. Our 4x4 suv is used so little we only fill the tank once a year! Still have 11 bars, perfect run around car for us. 😊
Ppl just dont understand how great the car is. And how affordable they are!
Same here. 2013, 11 bars and trickle charge.
Hang on, you’re completely missing a big part of the story here: Yes, the 2011 - 2012 are a hard pass, but starting around March 2013, they greatly improved the battery and added an optional heat pump. I bought a used 2013 in 2017 and it has been a wonderful commuter car here in the Pacific NW. The whole family loves it, and now my son drives it to college every day, and the battery is still at 80% of its original capacity. The realistic 100% range is still 70+ miles. This is surely helped by the mild weather here and the fact that we always limit the charge to 80%. If you do your research, you can get a great first EV / commuter car with a used Leaf. (Just please don’t buy a new one. There are way better EVs out there now).
Same boat.. PNW more inland :). bought a 2014 with 60k miles and 11/12 capacity... family loves using it for bouncing around town. I lived on a 110v charger all its life, so we are doing the same and it's been great! :). My teenage sons are learning to drive in and and they are looking forward to using it for commuting. :) The value is there, especially in the cooler climates. At one point I had a 2015 Leaf and but studded snows all around and it was a TANK in the winter... I enjoyed the commute on ice and snow with the leafs better than my f150 ;).
Totally agree!! Bought my 2013 Leaf SV in 2017 and in December '21 at 91k miles I paid $4k for a battery upgrade to 30 KWh pack from a wrecked 2017 and now my car is every bit as good as new with 112k miles. And bonus it has already paid for itself and the battery upgrade. I am way up in the PNW and this is the perfect climate to make these cheap compliance EVs last seemingly forever!
I feel like Nissan Leafs get a lot hate because of the early first generation cars ( and the chademo plug ). I have a 2022 Plus model and after a year and a half, the battery capacity meter hasn't gone down at all yet. Mind you I live in Florida and I fast charge all the time. The Chademo plug has not proven to be as big of a problem as people say (in fact for me it hasn't been a problem at all) however it will probably be something to worry about in the future here- hopefully no less than five years or something but we'll see. I would have liked a CCS port though.
@@kellenniles4581 At the moment, the Chademo port is almost a benefit, since a lot of stations have at least one and they’re rarely in use. (Not that I’m going to try to road trip my decade-old Leaf, lol!)
@@-Jethro- To my knowledge every CCS station has at least one CHAdeMO port. I have heard people talking about chademo being on its way out for years but CHAdeMO is literally everywhere and at all of the CCS stations so I don't understand what those people are talking about. I have heard Electrify America is no longer adding CHAdeMO stations though- I don't know if any other charging companies followed suit.
One thing I will give Nissan credit for is battery health transparency. No manufacturer made it as easy as they did to glance at the dash and see overall health of the pack. Loved my 2015 but I don't see how the economics work out for battery replacement unless you get the car for next to nothing.
Yeah that cracks me up - do you need to see it every time you drive? It should be a sub menu. It’s only going to change 5-8 times in the cars entire existence. It should not be on a dashboard!!
@@gary3074 very helpful when buying used bc sometimes people wont dig though the menu to take pictures of very important part
Except...the warranty is based on those bars (activates after bar 9 is lost). The bars themselves are not equal divisions of 100%, which creates an opaque measurement for when the warranty can be expected. My 2017 LEAF has 11/12 bars, but only has a capacity of 22.3kwh/30kwh. That a 26% battery degradation and I've only lost 1/12th of my capacity towards a warranty claim. That borders on fraudulent behavior, IMO.
battery is absolute shit. no cooling. degrades like rust
It’s called you get a aftermarket warranty that covers it up to 250,000 miles. You get a free battery replacement. It cost maybe three grand a year for the warranty as soon as you get your battery replaced dump the warranty sell the car for what you bought itand it has a brand new Nissan battery
Good news about the Nissan Leaf. I own both a 15 and a 16 Nissan Leaf. the 15 has 54K and still has 11 bars. It was from the San Francisco area and was never DC fast charged. My wife and I live in the Washington State and my wife will drive this Leaf all day long and still go over 80 miles in her daily commutes. If She uses freeway only, the range will degrade to about 60. Around town is the key. For example, our newer 16 Leaf has 43K on it and still has all 12 battery life meter bars. If I drive around town and no freeway. I can go over 90 miles on one charge. It's an amazing bargain if you have a secondary vehicle for out of town trips, only use the Leaf for daily short commutes, and then plug in at home with a level 1 or 2 charger. Gas prices here in Washington state are hovering around 5 bucks a gallon, but my wife hasn't had to use a drop of gas in the last 6 months since owning the Leaf. They are peppy quiet and comfortable and can be had for under 8K.
On a side note, I almost bought a third 2015 Leaf at auction. It had over 120K on it and still had 10 battery life bars. I was hoping to get for under 2k, but it went for 3k.
Great first car. My husband and I Purchased a 2014 Leaf for my daughter to get back and forth from school. Paid $2800 from a nice gentleman has 8 bars 70 miles @ 100%. Charge it at home, hardly noticeable on my electricity bill. I live in So Cal, got the Edison rebate $4000 (you do the math). Car drives perfectly made $1000 off of this car. My daughter loves her leaf. And the added bonus is me and my hubby don’t have to fork out gas $.
I've owned a 2015 Leaf for 5 years, which I got for $10k and I've put about 30k miles on it. I'm still waiting for that degradation that's been promised. Still at 11 bars like when i bought it. The ultimate in affordable, reliable and practical semi-urban transportation. Less flaky doing car things than my Rivian.
I got my 2014 Leaf for about $4k, and it's done 80k miles on the clock. Still got 11/12 battery health bars, which is about 75 mile range @ 30mph (45 miles @ 70mph).
Have you ever used a super charger? You must be charging it at your house. My battery has 50k, and they need replacing badly
@@JustSomePerson8Waw! How many bars do you have? What year is the car and size of battery? Can you provide more details of the car? Also where you live for an understanding of climate.
My buddy has a 2014 Leaf with 100k miles, and he has 10/12 bars of battery health and 71 miles of range.
That is Insane. 10 years later and the battery has 80% health.
I have a 2016, about 110k miles on it, still 12/12 bars. I love it
I own a 2011 Nissan Leaf .. gives me 40 miles full charge .. it's a Great car to go to work if you live close by .. I charge it every 4 days .. and the cost to buy one was only $2500.. saying that .. before buying this car over s month ago I was paying $135 a week on Gas on my truck.. close to $500 a month .. plus maintenance.. your looking at $6k a year .. owning the leaf over a month has been awesome..passing gas pumps in California for $5.89 a gallon .. and this car has a awesome stereo .. great speakers and XM radio .. don't listen you this guy ..it's worth it.. for short communtes around town .. for long distance..keep your other car .. but short distance .. BEST CAR EVER
im planning to buy one used 2013 for 8800 usd, 10 bars battery and mint condition inside and outside, im spending each week about 45 usd a week on bmw x5 2001 so for me it will be a huge upgrade from money standpoint i will spend about 8 usd a week on extra electricity to run the same 140 kms i run from monday to saturday
Still going strong? Looking at a simular one from 2012 with 8 bars left.
So how much has the leaf cost you per year then?
Many people buy these cheap and swap them with the newer 40kwh or 62kwh batteries that get around 200 miles of range, totally costing about 14k "ready to ride". The new batteries are exactly the same shape and size as the old ones and companies like Ingenex make conversion plug kits for it.
Personally, I think that's a really bad idea. The Leaf gen 1 suspension is not designed to take the weight of a huge battery and you'd be better just picking up a used gen 2 Leaf now.
@@decimal1815 about 25 lbs added weight from the 24 kwh to the 30 Kwh.
Me and the missus have bought one over here in England. It's only got a range of roughly 60 miles but its more than enough for what i use it for.
I live very close to work so i can walk it in 15 minutes but I've been using this a lot lately with the awful weather as well as doing local journeys (shopping/swimming etc) and we can't fault it! We're only charging it on the home charger when it gets to 15-20 miles so fingers crossed it'll last. We've got a diesel Kia Ceed we use if we need to go any further.
The range isn't great, but if you're only using it locally you can't beat it!
Only the 2011 and 2012 had severe battery issues. I bought a 2013 model S five years ago it's still at 10 bars. Still goes 70 miles in the summer, less in the cold. Best car I've ever owned. Only spent $120 on charging for 25,000 miles due to free charging at work. Only spent $200 in maintenance including tires (I buy barely used ones from CL and Facebook Marketplace).
Dang I found a 2012 Nissan leaf with 11/12 bars for 5k but now idk everyone saying they degrade fast😭
@@viperomen914how's your 2012 leaf? I'm about to buy one.. with 5/12 bars (32K miles )
I just bought a 2012 24kvh car gone 100 000 km with 12 of 12 bars. I paid about $6500 for the car (NOK 69900). It can go about 150 km in summer. I am OK with it!
Tommy you missed the fact that it is a perfect cheap vehicle that costs almost nothing to run and would be ideal for the proverbial old lady who uses it for grocery trips and chuch on Sundays.😊 Some offices also have charging available, which could make this a good commuter vehicle.
@thenutsonyourchin that's quite reasonable, I heard previously it was much more expensive. Depending on your area, there may be third parties that replace the pack or offer upgraded packs for some models.
@@thenutsonyourchin that's not a bad deal, as you can likely find older models in good condition with low prices due to a degraded pack. The car is practical and comfortable, with a large hatch and cargo space with seats folded
@thenutsonyourchin yes, this was a biased and overly negative review of a vehicle that would be great for many people. There aren't many truly affordable used EVs on the market, and they shouldn't discourage people from considering this car.
@thenutsonyourchin yes, but he is excluding the fact that these vehicles are a good option for many people despite the limited range.
But someone said 7-8$ per charge, i can get 100km with that in gas, which is about the same range for a used leaf it not slight more, so charging this thing is actually more expensive then gas? hmmm definatley not 10x cheaper, unless you find free power like solar or whatever
I love the LEAF! I had a 2013 SV. Fastcharged the battery pack down 2 bars in just 2 years, and sold it to a guy with a short commute in town. I should have never sold that car! I would definitely buy another one for $1k.
One thing about the LEAF I love is Nissan KNOWS how to make a car. This car has a respectably comfy interior with appropriate functionality. I’m not a fan of all these copycat touchscreen EVs hitting the marketplace. That stuff is a nuisance to deal with, especially while driving.
The heaters are awesome in these! 1k is dirt cheap especially if ppl are paying 10k for a golf cart 😅
For a battery replacement, a 62 kWh long range upgrade will set one back approximately $16k. Basically a Chevy Bolt upgrade, with well over 200 miles, for $18k - $20k (car + battery upgrade). A flop for resale value, but a bargain as a daily driver. Curious if anyone attempted this.
I think that's a great deal. $16K for a new "car" the battery!
The wheels work, wipers, doors, audio speakers, heated seats and steering wheel. Just need a newer batter pack
That's why I did my due diligence before purchasing my Leaf.
In the 80s I went for a ride in a converted ICE vehicle and was sold on the concept.
I waited until the lizard battery came out. I found one that had all the battery bars for less than $10,000 in 2016. I was told I couldn't make long trips, but I did make a trip of 1,600 miles, round trip, early on.
The Leaf is now 10 years old with over 126,000 miles and 25% degradation. At this point I don't take long trips and 50 miles is more than adequate for my needs as a retiree. I was looking to the future when I wouldn't drive as much. Most driving is 12 to 24 miles a day. It may be the last car I own.
It's a great little car for charging at home and local traveling.
The new Leaf has longer range and would make a less expensive alternative here in the Northwest.
I don't see a battery swap as totaling the vehicle, but as a being a less expensive alternative to buying a new car. I don't view an item that loses value year after year an investment. I purchased it as I knew it would be less expensive to operate. It has served me well.
I wish there was a way to remove the Leaf from average EV battery longevity studies. You just know this car alone drags that number down way more than it would be otherwise.
WRONG
so you want to fudge the data?
@@fortheloveofnoise I want to know what the average battery longevity is for EVs that aren't the Leaf.
@@directorjustinGood luck, some cars lie about the capacity of the battery, but it's not a bad thing.
If I charge to only 80% but have 125% of listed capacity it shows as full 100% but over time as the battery looses capacity I can increase the charge level to counteract the loss.
The limiting to 80% charge can double your cycle life and underrating means at 20% loss of capacity it still looks like it's lost nothing.
This is one way to give a 10 year 80% capacity warranty on battery with cells that have a 600-800 cycle life.
unfortunately have to agree. however, this car is perfect for a teen driver or student. low range, have to come home, and cheap.
Owning 2013 Leaf S with Chademo since 2020 in Ukraine, did 28k miles on it already. All time with A/C on, without ECO and without 'slow driving', just enjoying the car. When bought it was 83.5% SOH (18kw/h usable) and now 76% SOH (16.8kw/h ~ usable). 99% of time charge to 100% but never was discharging it to 'turtle' state, never left it even for a day being charged to 100% or discharged less than 20%, like 99% of charges made at home with 220V with it's own brick (which charges around 2.2kw/h). The only problem I was experiencing - it's suspension. Car has 86000 miles on it by this time.
Big part missed is difference between 2011-2012 and 2013-2017 cars and of course the one with 30kwt battery. ZE0 - 11-12', AZE0 - 13-17', BZE0 - 13-17' but with 30kwt.
ZE0 is the worst one, it looks identical visually but technically it's just another car, another battery chemistry (and another battery case/connections as well), another motor, another charger, another wiring, just really different car and it's degradation yeah, not good at all + charger is known to be 'fried' and find a replacement is an expensive headache, in fact any spare part which is different from AZE0 is hard and expensive to find.
But starting from AZE0 it's really different, battery much more reliable (as for me my stats are not bad and I've seen plenty of better ones here with same age), charger is reliable and can handle up to 6.6kw/h AC (seems as a joke nowdays but it's better than default 3.3), anything not related to battery/bodywork is quite easy and cheap to find (maybe except suspension, even though it's simple it still quite pricy), heater works like immediately + if it is a SV/SL trim you get efficient heat pump which reduces power usage for heating approx by 15-20%.
For most people in US I guess car under 10k is not a thing so Leaf should be avoided in this case but if you have only up to 8k for a car, charge plug at home and it fits your range - it is just pefrect. Air cooling will be a problem only for extreme hot temperatures and if you are using more than 1 DC charge in a row. For all time all problems I had is with suspension (I guess our shity roads also aaffected it :D) and that's it, after fixing suspension it became just perfect for my needs again. Next one will be tesla for sure but that's some time later.
P.s. As for BZE0 (the one with 30kwt pack) should be avoided at all costs, Nissan really failed with software and these cars were degrading super fast because of it, they had a campaign but not a lot of cars been 'updated' since you can't just do it by yourself as in Tesla, a lot of cars still on old firmware + after update battery still already degraded, in other parts - it's the same as AZE0.
My sister owns one of those early Nissan Leafs in New Zealand. She has a 10-minute commute and that's all she needs. Her husband has a more recent Leaf which has a lot more range but is still not much good for road trips. I think these early EV's can be useful as city runabouts if you want to save money on gas and just have a good reliable car. You get what you pay for. You can of course upgrade the battery pack to get more range, if you can find a third-party shop that does those conversions using a battery pack from a later model salvage vehicle, but you have to get that done at the right price to justify doing that instead of just buying another used EV with better range like a Chevy Bolt or maybe an early Model S.
I bought my 2011 used a year ago. Its got over 100k miles on it. Fully charged the battery gets 65 miles. It hasent fallen at all since we got it. Maybe four times a year we use a fast charger but for the majority of the time its plugged into 110. It drives about 20 miles a day, usually has heat or ac on. If its really cold or hot out ill even leave it running and locked to go shopping. Oh. Also, ive never had to change the oil in it.
I was originally looking for a 2015-2017 LEAF with only up to 2 bars lost on the battery SOH for a cheap commuting car when a 2017 Bolt came up on my search. I researched the VIN and found it hadn't gotten the battery recall done yet which I made the dealer take care of before purchasing. Now I have a 2017 Bolt with a brand new battery. Now if I can only get the dealer to file with the IRS so I get my $4000 it will have only costed me $16k.
So let’s say you get this car for 2500, spend 4,000 for a new upgraded battery. You still have a super cheap EV with low miles. I don’t think it sounds so bad with todays car prices. Would I do it? Nope haha
There is a shop in Portland that does the base battery for 7500, still not a bad deal overall though
My 98 Sentra with manual transmission cost $2500 a few months ago, I can manage to get in the 40+ MPG range if I drive right. I wouldn't trade.
I bought my 2012 leaf with 3 bars for 2K and had a used 10 Bar battery installed for 4k. It takes me to work and back every day. Its like driving for free.
Where is a reliable source for the battery? After doing a little research I am uncertain about how to reliably source a "good one".@@PremiumFuelOnly
@@PremiumFuelOnly but someone said it cost them $7-$8 per charge, thats not exactly free, and if youre getting 60 miles per charge, a 40mpg gas engine is cheaper per 60miles then this EV. Unless i got the math wrong. I guess theres cheaper maintenance. Also you can charge free with solar or whatever where you dont have that option with gas.
Loved my Leaf. Taking care of that battery is key. Slow AC charge it, keep it out of the sun and heat as much as you can and the batteries will live a lot longer. The price to replace these batteries is still very high and while you can get a larger capacity battery for them the cost will still be questionable. One of the glaring deficiencies in the EV market are the shops that do the repairs. It is a problem that is only going to grow. Insurance companies too often are salvaging vehicles because they can't get them recertified and repaired so they write them off. The new Leaf being sold today is still air cooled. I don't know what changes Nissan has made to address the degradation in the currently sold new cars, but I don't hear as much complaining today. It is dead end technology. Nissan needs a serious update to this car which it does not appear they will be doing.
While not a good idea to DCFC these things much to add insult to injury the DCFC plug is Chademo so there aren't as many places to charge when away. You have to make sure the Leaf is even equipped with the DCFC plug because it wasn't standard equipment until later. If you only drive local short distances, can keep the vehicle garaged and out of the heat, and AC slow charge it the Leaf with a new battery would still work for people, but that is a lot of conditions to be met for it to make sense now.
The problem with buying these now particularly at auction is a buyer doesn’t know if you were the prior owner or someone who DC charged it to 100% every day in 100 degree temperature after driving it hard 50 miles
@@Jeddin But you can learn that information in 10 seconds with the Leaf Spy Pro app and a bluetooth OBD2 adapter. I know that my 2013 has been DC fast charged just 5 times EVER, but has over 9k slow charge cycles.
@@AdventuresWithBrian83 I don’t think they let you hook up obd adaptors at auctions :/
That is going to be a "new thing" with used EV's. When you buy an ICE, you try to understand the frequency of oil changes, timing belts and whatnot. With EV's you are going to need to understand how it was charged, when and how often. Was the battery cooling system maintained, etc. All of this will determine the used value of the car/truck.
i have 2012 leaf since september 2011. i am at 11 out of 12 bars. awesome car.
Aside from the lack of active battery thermal management our Leaf has been pretty solid. It’s a 2016 S. We did have the battery replaced under warranty and got upgraded to a 40 kWh. But I attribute that to the 30 kWh battery chemistry not being great for FL heat. The 24 kWh batteries seem to do better here.
I have been told the 40 kWh has the better chemistry so I should be fine. I don’t intend to ever sell our Leaf. It suits our needs for like 80% driving. Sucks fast DC is chademo.
I wish more electric cars were simple like the leaf. I don’t need massive screens, self driving, massage seats. Just a car that’s electric.
We bought a 2012 four years ago for $7500, basically the money we saved on gas has paid for the car. The only issues have window wash sprayer and 2 of the windows no longer work. Other than a new set of tires, I have put no $$$ into maintenance. It still gets around 70 miles on a full charge and its a perfect car for my wife who just does running around town errands and we charge it at night just using normal 120v outlet. So while it might not work for everyone, it's still a very good 2nd running around town car.
The Leaf is a hard sell, especially the one you have in this video. 30 miles of range is pretty useless. Until replacement batteries are cheap (assuming $10k to replace this battery??), its a hard pass for me.
@@thenutsonyourchin source? I've read double that.
A 30-40 mile range would work for 99% of my trips.
It would be a great second car.
That car wasn't fully charged, look again it said 40 minutes till full at 240v.
I love my 2015 leaf but also 100% agree with your take, I would never recommend someone buy one, but as a third commuter car if they really know what they are doing or if they've researched and come to the decision on their own that it could be a good car for them... but recommending one would be insane.
Not air cooled, I made that mistake too. It's passively cooled, no air is directed across the cells. The Toyota Prius hybrid battery has a fan, and can be considered air cooled. I have no idea if air conditioned air is required to be "air cooled". Does conditioned cabin air in the Prius count?
I bought one for 1200 and it’s got 19 miles range but it really can only go about less than half that because when there is 8 miles left it warning light go on for low battery. Also I can’t use AC or heat otherwise I can only gos a few miles maybe 4 at the most so it is mainly used within Les than 3 miles radius
The other negative is Chademo. With everyone moving over the NACS the lone Chademo connector at EA stations is going to be replaced with the CCS connector
You really shouldn’t be fast charging a Leaf very often, regardless of the connector type. If you need to fast charge more than a couple times per year, the Leaf is probably not the right car for your needs.
got an 2012 leaf, 6 bars left, I charge every day and save 2k an year.awesome car still on 2024, got mine for 2k
Plenty of people still changing batteries in these cars. Not for reselling but their own use. 2-3k for battery replacement is better then 20-30k for new car. And they are well equipped. PS: You can sell the old battery to someone for home solar battery. At 50% (~10kw remaining) the battery's still are selling pretty well.
You are correct but I'd never put them in my house. Maybe in a steel box on a concrete pad vented to the outside.
Bought a 2012 leaf and its great for me, i live in a small town and only need 15 to 20miles a day, if i need more i plug it in while im working and its back up to 40mike range
Kept my old gas car for longer trips but it mainly sits, ill use it once a week just to run it, so im saving a lot on fuel and maintenance and not dependent on gas prices, next i get solar installed on the gouse and it all works for the best:)
i love the leaf, i have a blue 2012, repairing them is easy and cheap especially for people (like me) if i was rich I'd buy all of them. its seems this one in the video has a EV and brake system issue just like mine had and it was super cheap to fix, dont believe the hype about them being super expensive to fix. other than the traction battery especially from a nissan dealer. right now I'm working on a cheap solution for the battery.
A guy in NZ opened the source code for battery upgrade/replacment.
The controller board is like $20
@@ghz24 your referring to Dala, yes i know.
@@jr-pl9kjDala is in Finland
These still typically have 10-12 bars here in northern Norway because they don't suffer heat damage. Great daily drivers.
A used 12/12 bar battery costs The equivalent to $2300. It's not expensive to replace them. It's super easy for any shop that has a two post lift.
You have to compare cost per mile driven to other cars. I personally do not care how much the car is worth, if the total cost of ownership is lower.
So on the opposite end of the spectrum what is the cheapest reliable EV you can get nowadays particularly one that has a liquid cooled battery and a heat pump?
bolt.
I've had a 2015 leaf for a few months and the LeafSpy app tells me the efficiency of the original battery is 81.92%. Used parts are increasingly available on the market and many YT videos allow known faults to be repaired. I love everything about this car, except the front headlights which give it a Kermit the frog look.
You don't like the headlights, but you're ok with the homely rear end? I'm trying to be family friendly with that description, but dang, they whupped that thing's azz with a big ugly stick when it was designed. I can live with the front though.
My 2015 looks like a koala with a full diaper.
My max trip is 20 miles one way and I have a 60 mile range on mine. It is 10 years old so as long as I don’t cook it by dc charging on a hot day, it should last a long time. I also almost never pay for public charging unless the price is the same or less than home charging. The Tesla drivers pay three times more when supercharging while I never DC charge. This is a great car if your max range is three times your max one way trip.
I think you missed the *other* major, expensive fault with these cars: the On Board Charger.
The 2010-2013 Leaf on-board charger is known to fail and is an expensive fix. If you're lucky and have the know-how, it can be repaired cheaply with a bit of work, but a full replacement is over $3k.
When the on board charger fails, you can only charge the car on DC ChaDeMo. You won't be able to charge at home.
Otherwise a fair review. I have a 2012 Leaf, which I bought in July last year. It has just dropped to 9 bars. So far so good with it. It does help that it is from a cooler climate (Canberra, Australia) and only has 53,000km on the clock. Now that it's in Sydney it's degrading mildly faster but it only does occasional short trips now.
Love mine, but agree that the first gen leaf should be avoided. And the fact that new leafs STILL come with no thermal management and ChaDeMo is appalling, which is why when we bought our new EV this year we picked the BYD Atto 3 (which has been fabulous). It's a pity, because the Nissan is the OG, it's the grand daddy, and it is damn well built.
Oh, the heater in the Leaf is grossly inefficient. It'll sap range something fierce. I've seen mine draw 4500 Watts, compared to my Atto's heat pump drawing a little over 1000 at worst.
Would DC Fast charging the 2016 Nissan Leaf in the evenings out of direct sunlight but in still very warm temps like 80 degrees, still encourage battery degradation? (I live in Las Vegas) and these models are now available between 6K to 8K depending on the miles and at that price it's tempting with gasoline approaching 5.00 a gallon next year.
I recall going to a big Nissan event in 2010 where the public was allowed to ride in the new Leaf. When asked about the lack of thermal management the Nissan guy stood in front of the big crowd and said this just shows how far ahead Nissan is over their competitors. Battery thermal management systems is a “crutch” used by other manufactures to overcome weaknesses in battery engineering, Nissan is decades ahead of the other guys who are struggling to catch up.
Ummmm, NO. In fact, the newest Nissan EV (Aria) is middling at best (at least its better than the, out of the gate, already obsolete Toyota BZ4). Hyundai, American and German manufacturers have much better EV technology. Nissan basically squandered its early lead since the leaf was not a serious production effort but rather a CAFE compliance model.
@@Wised1000 hyunDIE is JUNK and do not better tech whatsoever and the Toyota is best in class, so STOP
He works for nissan of course he's going to say that. Nobody in the industry is trying to copy nissan right now.
That meter adjust to how you drive. I got a 2015 with 70+ thousand miles that usually says I got 63-67 miles, and my battery has lost a bar. I always drive with the radio and AC on. My old man never used that stuff and it always said 80, now 70 with the bar loss. I live around 10 miles from Walmart, the supermarket, Homedept, my sisters house etc. This car is perfect for that. That battery is clearly more degraded then mine but I'd like to see what that range said full charge, that car said 40 minutes till full at 240. For 5 grand I'd buy that car for short in town trips if it said at least 40 miles range. What do you expect for 5 grand, your never gonna buy gas.
I bought this car brand new in 2015, never gave me a SINGLE issue. I still have it, the battery like any EV is slowly dying but it deserves some respect!
Can you share your opinion of the 2015 Nissan Leaf?
You should have never bought those shoes or shirt also.
😂
I could see replacing that original battery, with a cool upgrade...you can even install a 62kw battery!...that gives you over a 200mile range, and massive acceleration. But I am having trouble even finding companies that install such an upgrade!...Do they exist here in Washington State? Of course, it is expensive, around 10 grand total. Still, you would have a very quick, extended range vehicle. I love the quirky look of the first gen Leaf...someday, I will do this upgrade!
what about 2nd gen LEAF? 2018+ ?
leaning more and more towards this vehicle for my first car when i turn 30. i live 5 miles from my job. i live in la, so the climate seems to be okay for it. the price tags is so pretty for a used one that i plan on getting one. can anyone give me advice?
Got a 2013 leaf with over 70 mi of range and only 40,000 miles on the odometer. you don't want to drain it low or charge it when it's really hot
I 100% agree with you on the fact that the Leaf alone has caused the majority of Anti-EV rhetoric and thinking, even among car people. Even today, when I mention getting an EV or something, it's always "But you'll have to spend $X thousands on a battery replacement in 5 years!" or "I couldn't imagine sitting and waiting over an hour for a charge to only go a hundred miles".
that was said before any battery replacements
I just bought a 2016 Nissan Leaf & it still has 11 of it's 12 original bars, I bought this one specifically because of that & it was only $4,900 after tax credit so these used Leaf's are a great deal for a dependable electric car & it's fun to drive.
The other problem with the 2011-2012 LEAF is the onboard charger's design defect. They're prone to a rare but expensive failure.
Yep happened to me 2012 model.
What do you think caused it to go bad and what did you do?
You should check out Dala's EV Repair channel to see his 1st gen. Leaf upgrades. You can get this car on the cheap and upgrade it to an amazing vehicle. Yes...that's right...people are already modding and hot rodding old EVs. A 62 kWh battery upgrade can give you a 232+ mile range, and upgrades to the inverter and gearbox can result in 215 hp from the original 110 hp. Now...will it cost some money? Sure, but you end up with a pretty decent car for less than buying a new one.
In Austin ive seen a handful of them for under 10k, which astounds me, a lot of them dont even have 100k miles on them, but since its an electric car it is where the problems start
Nissan or any manufacturer will not replace the battery, they will change the bad cell until the battery is within 80% or promised the percentage, not 100%. Be aware of that, do not expect them to give you a new or 100 percent chargeable battery.
True but the aftermarket get a 40 KW battery 60 KW battery I've seen them go up to 300 me on the charge. Get them out of a wrecked car with low mileage
I'm curious. If you can buy this car for $1000 how much would and aftermarket batter replacement cost. I assume with batter improvement the replacement would increase the range over the OEM battery from 10 years ago.
i have two volts, 12 and 13 years old, zero degradation, both have well over 100k miles on them. both are daily drivers saving my family a good amount of money. got them for about 7-8k each. the first one saved us 2,000usd the first 12 mo we owned it coz it was all we drove. its a shame nissan did such a poor job with the leaf. they all have so few miles on them for being as old as they are.
Leaf is a great car! As each "first of a kind" product you should know how to use it! Mine is 85 000 km 24kw and battery is 84% SOH. But I used as it is supposed to be used - city only, no fast charging, always keep battery between 20% to 80%. I'm pretty confident it will stand at least double the current mileage.
Perfect car for a student or old person, 1000 USD is a steal!
And the fact that it still can drive with the original battery after around 12 years time is impressive.
He forgot to mention that the car does not need repairs like mechanical cars.
My 40kw version is 6 years old and has only lost 1/12 bars, and has drive about 110.000 miles on it. I am just going to ride it till it gets 12-15 years old and then get an EV with solid state battery perhaps used. I will at the end up 15 years time, have saved at least 20k USD on repairs and about 50k USD on gas. As a minimum, compared to my previous french mechanical car.
Just don´t DC charge it, and only use it in areas that don´t have extreme heat and long distances, and then you have one of the best value cars ever.
Thanks for the information, I was going to pick a 2012 up tomorrow 😮😊
Brilliant video, first of your reviews for me anyhow. Honest and transparant no nonsense review. Sad though that it "single handedly destroyed EVs reputation!"
In the uk the battery is easily and cost effectively upgraded.
No active battery cooling, on board charger failure is pretty common, battery costs more than a car that needs a battery, you have to use chademo to DCFC, the list goes on much further don’t buy a leaf.
Ran a 13 plate for 3 years ,only replaced wipers and tyres no issues at all.Battery lasts better if you avoid high power chargers .
I have a 2022 Leaf, and love it. Serves me perfectly, but that particular Leaf you are featuring with only 3 bars of battery life, I wouldn’t touch it. It starts off life with 12 bars, and with only 3, your estimate of 35 miles might be a little on the high side. If you got 20 miles out of that, you’d be lucky.
If you know what you can do with the car and if it fits to your driving profile the Leaf is a superb car. Furthermore it is one of the very few cars where it is pretty easy to repair or replace the battery. Lots of people out there who put a 40 or 60kWh battery in old 2012 to 2015 Leafs. Dala from Norway now has put his upgrade software and hardware open source, so if you are a little used to work with such stuff you can do the upgrade yourself.
most of the vehicles you guys love I wouldn't own 😊
Hate to agree but it’s true. For me the reasoning, and TFL will admit, they can’t factor in reliability to most recommendations. Example, every dodge product they’ve ever sworn by. 😂
Tommy is spot on. Failing to include adequate battery temperature management results in a car no one should buy.
Stupid headliner!! This car is the most reliable car ever, just works forever! So economical its ridiculous! Cheap insurance etc. 8 years 0 problems
I own a 2011 but I think I going to put some kind of thermal management on mine after I upgrade it
Our 24kwh Leaf is 10 years old and nearly done 100k miles. The Battery health is 10 of 12 bars still so able to still do 75 miles 😊
has anyone thought to add a fan to help cool the battery?
I just bought one. $400 has about 20 miles ranges and some minor body damage. You can't even replace tires on a car for that, but I can commute to train station.
They are one of the ugliest cars in history, certainly modern era. Would never buy one that was not essentially a free local commute. The new ones are actually rather good and not ugly.
Perfect for close commuter or teens to go around the neighborhood
I had a 2013 down to 5 bars out of warrantee... got a 2019 now at 10 bars I didn’t learn 😑 I have only 14,000 miles of warrantee remaining to get to under 9 bars for a new battery wish me luck!
dont drive it, let it sit so it degrades, drive something else
To buy a GEN1 leaf, you need to KNOW how not to get a beat battery AND not plan on rapid charging it, or get it SO inexpensively that a replacement battery makes sense. And then you still have the convective-cooling only battery and don’t want to DCFC (ChaDeMo) more than rarely to protect the investment. NEED to get an SV WITH heat pump option or a ‘12 or newer SL (has heat pump) if you live where you need heat in the winter.
My 2012 leaf still has 8 bars and somewhere from 40-50 miles every time I charge it up to 100% battery
Well I gotten mine for a steal 1,500 dollars for mine 2014 Nissan Leaf with 69,122 miles total on it. However, my battery has only 6 bars I get about 42-50 miles full charge depreciated.
Just means u should check the bars before buying and buy according to needs. All tho some are a really though sell, even with my short commute. Oh and there is always a posibility of a super low range one having a dead cell which is cheaper to replace than a whole battery(tho it would still cost about a grand). So maybe bring Leafspy.
Buy a second hand battery pack out of a crash victim and necessary hardware/Software? Things are moving on rapidly though and it has been 13 years! I had a 2013 Leaf for commuting, not such an issue in UK, always scan with Leafspy to check overall battery SOH
Funny thing is you can actually use the original battery for your house as a battery backup. Then buy a newer 40kwh battery for a couple grand to upgrade it to get 200mi range
If it doesn't hold charge dose that mean it's also cheeper and faster to recharge? 😊
We have a 2015, no problems and electricity is basically free. Great little cars as long as you take care of them and dont expect to drive to the moon and back on a single charge.
I wish someone was out there converting these old Nissan leaves to mowers. Put some super wide tires on it and a PTO in the back to run a mower and my lawn of 2.5 acres would be done in about 10 passes lol
I had a 2012 Leaf and one cold February I had a full charge and only a 25km range with the heat on. So to get home I had to shut off the heat. I drove, frozen-fingered, teeth chattering and just barely made it home. As soon as I warmed up I said I had to get rid of this car and sold it a week later.
It’s their initial offering, it’s not expected to be perfect in any way. They were brave enough to introduce it & improve upon it. From the comments it seems as though it could still be a great option for certain people.
in Ukraine the are bisness that produce a battery for 500 km that coast some around 9k usd. In this case, it is quite an interesting car
@@thenutsonyourchin yes, but what kind of range from that battery you get for 6k? For 9k you get a 500km battery!
NOT air-cooled. There is NO FLOW of any cooling agent (not even air) through the battery pack. Convection of heat across case surface ONLY. That’s the problem. There ARE air-cooled batteries (early VW’s for example). Convection is the poorest cooling capability and is why old, GEN1 Leaf’s must be carefully checked for battery health.
Many hybrids (Toyota Prius, for one) use air cooling on their batteries. They have a fan that pulls in air from under the passenger seat.
I really wish I had the free time to buy one and replace the battery system with a LiFePo4 battery, charger, and power delivery.
Add distilled water to the 12volt after every summer keep the og battery 10y easy
The Replacement batteries are on Ebay they are between $3K and $4K.
Thank You!
@@rickphillips683 As time has went on there is a Larger
Supply of Motor parts on Ebay for EV's.
Hello, by having a vehicle over 10 years old and a battery with a gross capacity of 24Kwh for 21Kwh useful, with more than 100,000km, there is a way to have a battery that is quite worn out...
The manufacturers make guarantees which can indicate the probable degradation of the battery, for the leaf 24Kwh is 5 years or 100000Km, we can therefore deduce with this guarantee that the maximum loss of capacity over 5 years is 30%.
If the loss of capacity is linear, we would have a 60% loss of capacity, fortunately this is not the case, we must rather be at a 45% loss of capacity. With a typical average consumption of 15Kwh/100Km, we can conclude that with the remaining 10 to 12Kwh, we can travel 77Km by draining the battery, moreover what I indicate is quite close to what you have on the meter.
For a vehicle with such degradation it is preferable to change the battery with one having a larger capacity and recycle the old one into a stationary battery.
This vehicle is therefore good to buy, as long as we know what we are going to do, so to say that we should not buy is a total mistake.
Sincerely.
Nissan Leaf owners who have cars less than 8 years old- and in many cases WELL under 100,000 kms are having to scrap their cars because there is currently no repair nor replacement batteries available for them.
Imagine a customer buying an electric vehicle believing that they are saving the environment only to find that their vehicle is considered scrap after less than 60,000 miles and 8 year’s worth of service.
Most gas powered cars in production today should EASILY make it to over 200,000 kms and 15 years worth of use. As for other electric vehicles, the general consensus is that the vehicles are scrap once the battery is worn out because at that point, a replacement battery and the installation will surpass the value of the vehicle. Yes, there are some makes and models that provide better life from their vehicles, but those are offset by the ones that are write-offs because of what should be relatively simple repairs or battery failure.
Ppl underestimate the Nissan Leaf as an economic ev. There are battery upgrades available now giving much longer range than original. The caveat being these are suburban runabouts, not a long distance tourer.
Been that a 24 kwh battery is small compared to almost all todays EV's they should only be like $500 to replace with a new one when trading in the old battery for its second life use home battery storage or recycled to create a new one especially as new battery costs have fallen so much
We need a 3rd party battery upgrade option for the Nissan Leaf. A New Zealand company may be on to something.
Love love my 2016 Leaf. Totally disagreed with this review. Perfect for just driving around town with it. Same here : still have 11 bars and absolutely no maintenance. Just tires, windshield wipers and cabin filter. LOVE IT!!