@@austinsnodgrass8035 But Katherine wasn't losing anything and would've benefited from the reset being so far behind, so I get risking giving him a turn by ignoring the counterbalance trigger after he has already spent mana on the wheel.
@@Niehm I think I’d rather forego the benefit of “catching up” to the table in terms of board presence and not give the Blue Farm player (who won the previous game) 21 cards. Just my opinion tho!
I get to see Yoshi CEDH AND Shorikai CEDH? What a treat. Two of my favorite commanders that I'd not really considered for higher level play. Great stuff as always, ya'll.
That second game ending was absolutely insane! I thought that was game over, and it was but not in the way I think everyone thought! Really really impressive.
Game 1 Kevin had turn 1 drop hand and chose not to, and that bewilders me. Since he was going first and could risk getting counterspelled first iat the exchange of 2 cards for 2 card (which wasn't going to be the case regardless, but was an unlikely scenario) I'd just risk it all. T1: Fiery Islet > Lotus Petal> Jhoira> Mana Crypt(Draw)> Lotus Petal(Draw)>Mana Vault(Draw) >Metalworker(Draw). End with 6 cards in hand. His first draw for the game was Inventors Fair and he legitimately couldve just gone for the T2 win as well. He would've had 4 other cards drawn for his turn afterwards & The Fair would've been online. Fair would either get him Mystic Forge, Sensei's Diving Top, or Aetherflux Reservoir and he could dig for a win on the spot Turn 2. At the assumption he's obviously good counterspells, the least of his worries would be what gets countered as he'd like draw into it.
Right? It just doesn't make sense. He could've had a turn 1 Jhoira into Crypt, Vault, Petal *and* Metalworker. First in turn order, too, so a very limited number of counterspells that would've gotten him.
Also confused by this. What confused me even more was his turn 2: casts a bunch of those 0-drop artifacts without first tapping the Metalworker he cast turn 1 and revealing them to float mana. That was the only thing I could see as justifying the turn 1 Metalworker, but he doesn't even use the Metalworker. Are we missing something?
The list in the description is mine, but the one in the video was clearly quite a bit different, why not show the actual decklist instead of the database one?
probably they aren't using proxies, but don't wanna buy more than one copy of an expensive card, so they share those cards amongst their decks and mark it with those dots so they know which cards to put in which deck.
Tip 1: don't cast cyclonic rift in response to a fair windfall if the other decks can take advantage of it better than you. Tip 2: If a player has breach, LED and Brain Freeze, but they are out of Red mana, chain of vapor (or cyclonic rift, or brazzen borrower, or tidespout, or nature's claim, or anything) can fizzle their combo.
So they know what decks that specific card goes into. That way they can just use the same card and sleeves with multiple decks and not need multiple copies/proxies of staple cards.
I do this, it's to share a card between decks - one copy of an expensive card (e.g. crypt) then gets all the dots, and whichever deck I'm building I then just find all 100 card with that colour dot. Makes sharing cards between multiple decks much simpler if you're swapping between them on a regular basis. I've got 3 cEDH decks in a 200-card deckbox that take 30 seconds to separate out into the deck I want.
@@RobSchweitzer easier on the wallet than buying multiple mana crypts, time is money! The question for me is how many times do I have to spend 30 seconds rejigging to make it worth buying multiples copies of fast mana? I should point out that they're all in the same sleeves, so it's literally just picking out the 99 I need from a pile of ~200 cards
what did kyle do with that chain of vapor? That's the kind of plays that I always find dumb, because is not going to help you win in that moment and instead is going to allowed someone else win and the only thing that could have stopped him is that dang card that you decide to bounce!
Yes. Creatures not on the battlefield are referred to as creature *cards*, like on Worldly Tutor. Cursed Totem only affects creatures on the battlefield.
Why would you c-rift with a windfall on the stack? Especially when Kevin has a BOARD. I'll never understand king-making. I don't think anyone needs foresight to know not to give your opponents more cards to play. Kyle gave his opponents 63 cards. It also doesn't help when each game was basically a 3 person game because Katherine was so far behind in both games.
@@DefCatofficial We don't know when these games were played with respect to one another. All we saw was in game 1, you won on turn 2. In game 2, your opponent gave you a full grip times 3. Yes, your opponents also had 21 cards each but unless they had free spells in their hand, those cards were never going to see play. It's one of those understood rules where you don't help your opponents get closer to their win conditions. So not only did he fill your hand, he filled your graveyard which pretty much had everything you needed. Whether it's hindsight or foresight, gotta recognize how dumb a play that was.
Extort is a key word and the hybrid mana symbol is in the reminder text which doesn't count as actually being on the card so its colour identity is mono white making it legal
Yep! Basically because extort is keyworded it ignores color identity rules since theoretically they could print extort without reminder text and then the color of the card wouldn’t be in question. I don’t know if there are any other keywords like this but theoretically this applies across all keywords that have a specific colored cost for every instance.
@@dylanh8163 more generally it's the case because the mana symbol is in reminder text - had to clarify to someone once that Trinisphere can go in any deck, as the example they use with black mana is in reminder text
In game 2, why get Grafdigger's Cage with Urza's Saga, when he could have gotten Sensei's Divining Top? With Mystical Forge and Cloud Key, he could have drawn his deck...
Cloud Key and Mystic Forge were late draws. Defcat had the win in Graveyard. With the limited knowledge, It was the safer play to try to shut him down. If I knew I was going to draw the combo. Of course I would have gotten Top ;)
Katherine should have countered cyclonic rift with counterbalance. Calamity's wake was still on the top of her library and overload costs don't alter the cmc of the card. I don't know if it would have stopped blue farm but I know it would have shut down using underworld breach.
She wasn't losing anything and would've benefited from the reset being so far behind, so I get risking giving him a turn by ignoring the counterbalance trigger after he has already spent mana on the wheel.
That's what I do - one copy of an expensive card (e.g. crypt) then gets all the dots, and whichever deck I'm building I then just find all 100 card with that colour dot. Makes sharing cards between multiple decks much simpler if you're swapping between them on a regular basis. I've got 3 cEDH decks in a 200-card deckbox that take 30 seconds to separate out into the deck I want.
Did everyone forget that Counterbalance had already revealed a CMC 2 on the top and could have countered the C rift? Why was that trigger declined? Did I miss the Calamity's Wake being drawn?
@@DrHyde-hj3ym They were so far behind, it's a case of playing to your outs IMO. I'm sure they knew about it, and declined to reveal. I'd have done the same thing - yes the wheel gives Blue Farm 21 cards, but it also gives Catherine 21 cards, which may have included multiple free counterpells.
A turn one rhystic study may be annoying, but what about a turn 1 eidolon of rhetoric? Did it yesterday with tymna//tana and it slowed the game down so hard that they eventually scooped to me when i eldritch evolution on the eidolon for a potential win
That cyclonic rift into a windfall was sketch. I understand the idea but allowing the person who cast the wheel to draw approx 14 more cards cant be the right thing to do.
Huh... debatable. Windfall was only this powerful because someone else responded to it with an overloaded Rift. Drawing 21 cards off it is way too situational. I'd argue Underworld Breach was the most valuable card in both games. As always, turning your entire graveyard into your hand, even for one turn, is busted.
I am tired of watch Tymna or Kraum partner with other card, always the same winning strategy. The Arcum or Kaalia deck before makes me exited than partner deck. Please make more video with different commander cEDH deck.
We haven't played tymna krauma since this video was recorded, only new decks included Syhtis, omnath. Tivit, jhoira, kozilek, krarkashima, tasigur, ect..
@@DefCatofficial understand you need time to edit. However, few months ago like cEDH gameplay 199, had played these partner, and many of your videos later and before also used these. As an audience, I wish we have more commanders with powerful format in video. It is getting bored to keep watching partners.
Let's be real. Fun games to watch, but absolute bonkers decisions making from the players. That cyclo rift is amazingly bad. I understand it was gonna get lost anyway, but I believe it would have been better. Then the big bad bait is bitten when the dude with 21 cards in hand casts rhystic and (one of) the best counterspell of the format is used on it. Ma hart. Ma soul. And then, Blue Farmer casts a friggin wheel of fortune when everybody has 20 cards in hand, right after they won their first game on selfmill and that resolves. Somehow, three blue player drew 0 FoW or FoN or Fierce or Mindbreak on 63 cards. I can understand the jhoira turn one deciding to keep fuel for turn 2. Or can I ? Its a turbo deck starting on first position, yet instead of going for "commander into hand refill with mana engine", he goes "big target on my back, but without the value". Wish we could have seen more of game one, and maybe its shortness threw people of their focus. But this game 2 was ... something. Keep posting! I fuckin love your games; and I definitely can't play better than y'all. It's easy to criticise from my spectator seat. It's still cool to watch :)
Overloading the rift into a windfall was a punt move. This is why edh/cedh can’t be tournament viable. People punt games indirectly kingmaking , poor threat assessment, turn order, etc etc. the kinnan player literally gave the game to blue farm. Imagine being in a final four if a tourney and someone doing this and that’s how you lose as the shorokai or jhoira player
@@DefCatofficial most of them were tapped out or had 1 mana open against a blue farm player. How were they going tk stop a blue farm player with 21 quality cards in hand. Case in point. On top of that kinna now has 3 people with 21 cards going before him. It was never getting back to his turn. Total punt smh
Kevin's trigger finger twitching on land drops for the rhystic was funny as hell
I've never seen a person so excited for a Rhystic Study than Kevin lol
It's cute isn't it. He's so hype
👉🏻👉🏻
Rhystic Study 👉😎👉
Kevin excitedly giving the rhystic study tippy taps like a dog that wants to go outside made my day better.
God Kevin's Deck is SO PRETTY
You misspelled FABULOUS BBY
Kinda seems like the rift wasn't a good idea. Giving blue farm 21 cards
Came here to say this. Could’ve been countered through Counterbalance too, with the previously revealed Calamity’s Wake.
@@austinsnodgrass8035 But Katherine wasn't losing anything and would've benefited from the reset being so far behind, so I get risking giving him a turn by ignoring the counterbalance trigger after he has already spent mana on the wheel.
@@Niehm I think I’d rather forego the benefit of “catching up” to the table in terms of board presence and not give the Blue Farm player (who won the previous game) 21 cards. Just my opinion tho!
@@austinsnodgrass8035 which is valid. I guess it's a question of whether to play to win or to not lose. Reasonable minds can disagree
It’s like a mini Ad Naus
Lol Kevin @ 6:00 with the sassy Rhystic hands
I get to see Yoshi CEDH AND Shorikai CEDH? What a treat. Two of my favorite commanders that I'd not really considered for higher level play. Great stuff as always, ya'll.
Well tbf you didn't get to see much of Shorikai :D
Shorikai made waves as a humility commander on printing
what an awesome set of opening hands - total of one london mulligan in the pod and all super solid
That second game ending was absolutely insane! I thought that was game over, and it was but not in the way I think everyone thought! Really really impressive.
Game 1 Kevin had turn 1 drop hand and chose not to, and that bewilders me. Since he was going first and could risk getting counterspelled first iat the exchange of 2 cards for 2 card (which wasn't going to be the case regardless, but was an unlikely scenario) I'd just risk it all.
T1: Fiery Islet > Lotus Petal> Jhoira> Mana Crypt(Draw)> Lotus Petal(Draw)>Mana Vault(Draw) >Metalworker(Draw). End with 6 cards in hand.
His first draw for the game was Inventors Fair and he legitimately couldve just gone for the T2 win as well. He would've had 4 other cards drawn for his turn afterwards & The Fair would've been online. Fair would either get him Mystic Forge, Sensei's Diving Top, or Aetherflux Reservoir and he could dig for a win on the spot Turn 2.
At the assumption he's obviously good counterspells, the least of his worries would be what gets countered as he'd like draw into it.
Right? It just doesn't make sense. He could've had a turn 1 Jhoira into Crypt, Vault, Petal *and* Metalworker. First in turn order, too, so a very limited number of counterspells that would've gotten him.
Also confused by this. What confused me even more was his turn 2: casts a bunch of those 0-drop artifacts without first tapping the Metalworker he cast turn 1 and revealing them to float mana. That was the only thing I could see as justifying the turn 1 Metalworker, but he doesn't even use the Metalworker. Are we missing something?
@@alexhopewell449 Cursed Totem
Thank you! Blinked and I missed it, I guess
btw I was listed as "jay" in previous videos. I am the Yisan player!
Mystic Snake in Kinnan? That's some real spice and I'm here for it
Yay this is the first video I’ve seen with Kyle in it!
I love how large Kevin's graveyard was in the second game
didn't watch the video yet, but holy shit the starting hands in game 1 are insane already :D
Kevin booped his rhystic study with every game action😂
Why adnause when you can just windfall for 22 instead!
the Tymna/Kraum deck list link is not the deck being played
Kevin's good ol Rhystic trigger finger gets me :'D
Kevin cracked me up with his Rhystic triggers 😂😂😂
Only took 8 hours and 13 games to get these two good ones 🤣
I pack a lot of graveyard hate in my stax decks, but this video is telling me I need more
Awesome games! I noticed that some of the cards have little stickers on them. What are those for? Bottom right screen mostly lol
Each color represents a different commander deck. It's much cheaper and quicker to throw together a different deck using these stickers!
The list in the description is mine, but the one in the video was clearly quite a bit different, why not show the actual decklist instead of the database one?
Sorry for the noob question... what are those dots/stickers on the cards they're playing with?
I would guess it's to keep track of which decks the card goes in.
This must be the yellow dot deck
probably they aren't using proxies, but don't wanna buy more than one copy of an expensive card, so they share those cards amongst their decks and mark it with those dots so they know which cards to put in which deck.
Each color represents a different commander deck. It's much cheaper and quicker to throw together a different deck using these stickers!
Just here for tips on the kinnen as it is the deck I want to start cedh with
Tip 1: don't cast cyclonic rift in response to a fair windfall if the other decks can take advantage of it better than you. Tip 2: If a player has breach, LED and Brain Freeze, but they are out of Red mana, chain of vapor (or cyclonic rift, or brazzen borrower, or tidespout, or nature's claim, or anything) can fizzle their combo.
@@maximiliangunther9597 oh thanks
Can anyone tell me what the little circles on their cards are for?
So they know what decks that specific card goes into. That way they can just use the same card and sleeves with multiple decks and not need multiple copies/proxies of staple cards.
Apparently they're from the same cEDH cube, so the cube's owner marked the sleeves to remember which decks the cards go into.
What are all the little round colored
stickers on the sleeves for?
I too would like to know this.
I do this, it's to share a card between decks - one copy of an expensive card (e.g. crypt) then gets all the dots, and whichever deck I'm building I then just find all 100 card with that colour dot. Makes sharing cards between multiple decks much simpler if you're swapping between them on a regular basis. I've got 3 cEDH decks in a 200-card deckbox that take 30 seconds to separate out into the deck I want.
@@HalcyonVentures oof, that seems like a lot of work!
@@RobSchweitzer easier on the wallet than buying multiple mana crypts, time is money! The question for me is how many times do I have to spend 30 seconds rejigging to make it worth buying multiples copies of fast mana?
I should point out that they're all in the same sleeves, so it's literally just picking out the 99 I need from a pile of ~200 cards
@@HalcyonVentures I know it's easier on the wallet, but I only have 5 or so cards I switch between decks. can't imagine doing entire decks!
What are the colored dots on the cards for?
I saw in a previous video that it's so they can switch cards between decks more easily. The colors are coded to different decks.
what did kyle do with that chain of vapor? That's the kind of plays that I always find dumb, because is not going to help you win in that moment and instead is going to allowed someone else win and the only thing that could have stopped him is that dang card that you decide to bounce!
Noob question here, can you activate Simian Spirit Guide’s ability with Cursed Totem on the battlefield?
Yes.
Creatures not on the battlefield are referred to as creature *cards*, like on Worldly Tutor. Cursed Totem only affects creatures on the battlefield.
Ahh makes sense. Thanks!
What's with the confetti in the sleeves?
Because it's party time
blue farm decklist is not the same. When can find the real list?
Why would you c-rift with a windfall on the stack? Especially when Kevin has a BOARD. I'll never understand king-making. I don't think anyone needs foresight to know not to give your opponents more cards to play. Kyle gave his opponents 63 cards. It also doesn't help when each game was basically a 3 person game because Katherine was so far behind in both games.
It filled everyone's hand for a bigger windfall
@@DefCatofficial We don't know when these games were played with respect to one another. All we saw was in game 1, you won on turn 2. In game 2, your opponent gave you a full grip times 3. Yes, your opponents also had 21 cards each but unless they had free spells in their hand, those cards were never going to see play. It's one of those understood rules where you don't help your opponents get closer to their win conditions. So not only did he fill your hand, he filled your graveyard which pretty much had everything you needed. Whether it's hindsight or foresight, gotta recognize how dumb a play that was.
Is blind obedience legal in Shorikai because it has a black mana symbol in extort? I think this is a stupid rule but I’m curious
Extort is a key word and the hybrid mana symbol is in the reminder text which doesn't count as actually being on the card so its colour identity is mono white making it legal
Yep! Basically because extort is keyworded it ignores color identity rules since theoretically they could print extort without reminder text and then the color of the card wouldn’t be in question. I don’t know if there are any other keywords like this but theoretically this applies across all keywords that have a specific colored cost for every instance.
@@dylanh8163 more generally it's the case because the mana symbol is in reminder text - had to clarify to someone once that Trinisphere can go in any deck, as the example they use with black mana is in reminder text
What's the deal with the stickers kn the sleeves?
Who would've thought giving 21 cards to the best deck in the format was a bad idea?
What’s the deal with the round colored stickers on the sleeves?
"1 minute ago"
Comment: "22 hours ago"
Whut
Also what a perfect time to decide to eat!
patrons get to see videos early
I hate to admit blue farm is so resilient... Kevin's deck is... wow...
I bullied Defcat not to play Blue Farm in a different game that will come out in a few weeks. I absolutely wrecked him. 🤣🤣
In game 2, why get Grafdigger's Cage with Urza's Saga, when he could have gotten Sensei's Divining Top? With Mystical Forge and Cloud Key, he could have drawn his deck...
Could have likely just been a case of drawing forge last in the draw chain. And Grafdiggers was grabbed to be a stop to the Underworld Breach.
You're right always go top its the mvp in the deck. Great game though I like seeing Jhoria played
Cloud Key and Mystic Forge were late draws. Defcat had the win in Graveyard. With the limited knowledge, It was the safer play to try to shut him down. If I knew I was going to draw the combo. Of course I would have gotten Top ;)
okay, what is up with the stickers?
Katherine should have countered cyclonic rift with counterbalance. Calamity's wake was still on the top of her library and overload costs don't alter the cmc of the card. I don't know if it would have stopped blue farm but I know it would have shut down using underworld breach.
She wasn't losing anything and would've benefited from the reset being so far behind, so I get risking giving him a turn by ignoring the counterbalance trigger after he has already spent mana on the wheel.
@@Niehm you still don't take that risk, in Katherine's position Counterbalance is the literal only thing keeping her in the game
Can anyone explain the dots on the cards?
I am also curious of what they are for.
Each color represents a different commander deck. It's much cheaper and quicker to throw together a different deck using these stickers!
Nice games!
Are the dots used to help sort cards into different decks?
I have no idea, am also curious
yes that is the case
That's what I do - one copy of an expensive card (e.g. crypt) then gets all the dots, and whichever deck I'm building I then just find all 100 card with that colour dot. Makes sharing cards between multiple decks much simpler if you're swapping between them on a regular basis. I've got 3 cEDH decks in a 200-card deckbox that take 30 seconds to separate out into the deck I want.
Each color represents a different commander deck. It's much cheaper and quicker to throw together a different deck using these stickers!
Is Charles brewing the new Elesh Norn mono white? Or is that too terrible?
No shot that underworld breach wasnt the mvp ;o
Did everyone forget that Counterbalance had already revealed a CMC 2 on the top and could have countered the C rift? Why was that trigger declined? Did I miss the Calamity's Wake being drawn?
Yeah that's what I said earlier. I can only they forgot about it.
@@DrHyde-hj3ym They were so far behind, it's a case of playing to your outs IMO. I'm sure they knew about it, and declined to reveal. I'd have done the same thing - yes the wheel gives Blue Farm 21 cards, but it also gives Catherine 21 cards, which may have included multiple free counterpells.
A turn one rhystic study may be annoying, but what about a turn 1 eidolon of rhetoric? Did it yesterday with tymna//tana and it slowed the game down so hard that they eventually scooped to me when i eldritch evolution on the eidolon for a potential win
For urza's saga, is it true that when it gets its second saga counter, you can still tap the land for mana?
Yes
Yep!
Finally! 2 matches with no f**king fish!
I played fish in game 2 doe
@@DefCatofficial and rhys-Study on turn one of that game. Don't know what that guy is about.
where the hell is there a Tasha’s laughter in a blue farm deck? It’s not in the list??
"Blue Farm is so overrated"
ayeeee
“Let’s give the blue farm deck 21 new cards on their turn.”
- Someone with a Smooth Brain
Lol 2 of the 3 cards Kevin played Game 1 Turn 1 aren't in his deck list.
That cyclonic rift into a windfall was sketch. I understand the idea but allowing the person who cast the wheel to draw approx 14 more cards cant be the right thing to do.
Letting the Blue Farm player draw 21 cards was definitely not a good idea.
Huh... debatable. Windfall was only this powerful because someone else responded to it with an overloaded Rift. Drawing 21 cards off it is way too situational.
I'd argue Underworld Breach was the most valuable card in both games. As always, turning your entire graveyard into your hand, even for one turn, is busted.
"what a crazy game"
bruh, nothing at all happened that game, what was crazy about it
I cant believe the second game, the windfall, you arent a turbo deck and the next oponent was, its like giving half of the game
Really poorly timed cyc rift there.. Seemed like that was a kingmaking move.
I am tired of watch Tymna or Kraum partner with other card, always the same winning strategy. The Arcum or Kaalia deck before makes me exited than partner deck. Please make more video with different commander cEDH deck.
We haven't played tymna krauma since this video was recorded, only new decks included Syhtis, omnath. Tivit, jhoira, kozilek, krarkashima, tasigur, ect..
@@DefCatofficial understand you need time to edit. However, few months ago like cEDH gameplay 199, had played these partner, and many of your videos later and before also used these. As an audience, I wish we have more commanders with powerful format in video. It is getting bored to keep watching partners.
Let's be real. Fun games to watch, but absolute bonkers decisions making from the players.
That cyclo rift is amazingly bad. I understand it was gonna get lost anyway, but I believe it would have been better. Then the big bad bait is bitten when the dude with 21 cards in hand casts rhystic and (one of) the best counterspell of the format is used on it. Ma hart. Ma soul. And then, Blue Farmer casts a friggin wheel of fortune when everybody has 20 cards in hand, right after they won their first game on selfmill and that resolves. Somehow, three blue player drew 0 FoW or FoN or Fierce or Mindbreak on 63 cards.
I can understand the jhoira turn one deciding to keep fuel for turn 2. Or can I ? Its a turbo deck starting on first position, yet instead of going for "commander into hand refill with mana engine", he goes "big target on my back, but without the value".
Wish we could have seen more of game one, and maybe its shortness threw people of their focus. But this game 2 was ... something.
Keep posting! I fuckin love your games; and I definitely can't play better than y'all. It's easy to criticise from my spectator seat. It's still cool to watch :)
Overloading the rift into a windfall was a punt move. This is why edh/cedh can’t be tournament viable. People punt games indirectly kingmaking , poor threat assessment, turn order, etc etc. the kinnan player literally gave the game to blue farm. Imagine being in a final four if a tourney and someone doing this and that’s how you lose as the shorokai or jhoira player
It gave 3 other people a full 21 to stop me, I didn't find it punty. They just didn't use their interaction well imo
@@DefCatofficial most of them were tapped out or had 1 mana open against a blue farm player. How were they going tk stop a blue farm player with 21 quality cards in hand. Case in point. On top of that kinna now has 3 people with 21 cards going before him. It was never getting back to his turn. Total punt smh
people punt games in all formats lol
Weirdest take tbh.
Dumb take. “Mistakes can be made therefore it’s not tournament viable” is a ridiculous opinion
Thoracle being made was a mistake
I love it. Best wincon in blue
thoracle isn't really the problem here imo. The fact that the moment UWB resolved the game was over in both games was more the issue if anything
LMAO you can't go one game without partners, I hate partners. I love the content though! Very fun game
Pretty good games apart from thoracle again
there were a surprising amount of illegal decks in this video.
They are all legal what you mean?