Hello! Resident Pittsburgher here, with a few comments: - The light rail is a bit streetcar-esque, but one could argue that that's the point of light rail - it's not trying to be commuter rail (cough, Dallas) or metro (cough, Seattle), it's genuinely a streetcar system upgraded to modern standards. So yeah, I get the bus-esque feeling that comes with it, but that's a feature, not a bug. Plus, it's way faster than buses during events such as Steelers/Pirates/Pens games (it serves all 3 stadiums/arenas), concerts, and the Fourth of July celebration recently. - The South Busway is not irrelevant! It's simply an access road. A lot of the routes between Pittsburgh and its southern neighbors involve tunnels through Mount Washington, and these can get clogged with traffic. Having a transit-only tunnel and a special bus-only highway south of that can help buses dodge congestion. - Light rail to Oakland is arguably one of the most needed transit projects in the entire state, if not the entire country. (I may be biased as it would go right past Carlow, my school!) - I don't think removing a chunk of the east busway would be helpful. There's a ton of ridership between downtown and the outer stations, and taking the current route would eliminate additional crowding of students and health workers in Oakland. Rather, I think these should both be separate entities. Ideally tracks would be laid into the busway to operate high-capacity rail service replacing the P1 and P2, with trains dumping into Steel Plaza; your Oakland line would replace the P3, and longer-distance routes would remain the same. - 376 express bus service is such a good idea! I love it! I never thought about it before. - Love the S Bahn idea. Not sure Norfolk Southern would... Overall, I LOVE this!
Excited to see you stop by (I watch your channel)! These are all valid critiques, particularly given you have more experience in the region. I’d argue a lot of these considerations reflect something that I noticed a lot while visiting, which is that the integration between the bus system and the rail system is quite limited, and almost no bus routes feed into rail stations. Calling the south busway irrelevant maybe isn’t fair in the system’s current state-I would say though that it’s rather unusual that the busway and rail route largely duplicate each other rather than buses terminating at stations and service hours instead going to running more rail service, as is done in many other regions with light rail. But if one seat rides and buses heading all the way into downtown is a priority, the South Busway is a solid solution. I think capacity concerns surrounding rail along the East Busway and through Oakland could be mitigated by using trains at least as long as the current two car sets and running significantly more service. Pittsburgh’s a comparatively small region and much larger metro areas squeeze massive capacity out of small trains. This is true about trackage rights. A regional rail system is more than feasible but the freights need to be, well, forced to play along… Definitely appreciate hearing your feedback and will be looking out for your next video!
1. As someone who's visited Pittsbrugh many times and taken the bus as far as Coapolis and Oakmont, I think the S-Bahn system is the lowest hanging fruit proposed in this video (at least it would be in Europe) If NS continues to give middle fingers to passenger rail, I think there needs to be a federal law that requires railroads to work with regions if they want to implement regional rail, using the threat of a penalty corporate income tax and loss federal funding eligibility if they don't comply.
The East Busway should've followed 376 from Wilkinsburg to Monroeville instead of going to Swissvale. And it should be heavy rail, not light rail. The South Busway gets buses off the very congested RT 51. Agreed to Downtown to Oakland light rail, either elevated or underground. How about a West Busway extension to Robinson, Moon, and the airport? It can be left as a Busway for now.
@@thehouseoftransit2719I think the South Busway could be made a lot more useful if they put in dedicated bus lanes along Route 51. The road has four lanes for cars, which is totally unnecessary. Make a couple into bus lanes for quick rides along 51, and then they can get on the South Busway at Overbrook to avoid stop lights the rest of the way. Though keep the dedicated bus lanes going to South Hills Junction to better serve Carrick and Overbrook with a route. This should be accompanied by lots of transit-oriented redevelopment. Transform the strip malls along 51 into a walkable, mixed-use business district, and transform the parking-lot desert in West Mifflin, in and around Century 3, into a proper, walkable community. This is all a pipe dream, as it would involve getting several suburban municipalities to work together on a transit project, but it would be a great transformation of the area, and it would offer much-needed service to places like Baldwin. As a final side note, I still appreciate the South Busway as a Brookline resident. It gives me a nice ten minute commute to downtown.
@thedapperdolphin1590 as of right now, with route 51 sometimes backing up (particularly near route 88) it is totally necessary to have 4 lanes. This transiting to more density would need to happen first
That’s the largest reason Allentown is kept intact and even still maintained There’s also a hope on various sides the former 52/Brown or line could see eventual re-activation of service in some capacity leading to rail cars actually making stops in the neighborhood
It is. But in the NEXT 25 year plan for Pittsburgh transit, the Allentown line is going to go under review to try and bring it back as population increased in the area and people been asking for it.
we really do need more transit up the Allegheny valley. the 28 "express"way is hardly that anymore. it's always congested as it's the only highway that connects all of the north/northeast suburbs to downtown. i think expanding the Allegheny valley transit options is included in the NEXT plan, hopefully something comes of it!
Pittsburgh resident here. I would make a 5 lines Line 1 (PGH International to Monroeville) , the line would go through downtown , the growing east end , Wilkensburg and finally Monroeville. Stops in Green Tree , Carnegie , and Robinson Line 2 (South Hills village to Cranberry) It would extend the current line run Parallel to I-279 , I-79. Stops in West view , Ross , Wexford. Line 3 (Downtown to Penn Hills) Stop in Oakland , Squirrel Hill , East Liberty , Lawrenceville. Line 4 (North Shore to Ambridge). Runs along rt. 65. Stops in Bellevue , Avalon , Ben Avon , Sewickley. Line 5 (rt. 837). Station Square to Mckeesport. Help revitalize the 837 area. It will never happen. Area is not big enough. Just my dream.
Line 1 effectively follows and extends the busways to where they are needed. Line 2 is the Shopper... Line 3 makes no sense at all. If you are doing downtown to Penn Hills, the fastest route would be via Penn Ave between downtown and East Liberty and then via Frankstown, effectively 88 Penn to 77 Penn Hills. Otherwise if you want to serve Lawrenceville, use that to also serve the Allegheny Valley, effectively an extension of the 91 Butler Street. Line 4 I wouldn't have running down 65. It should follow the 16 Brighton. Granted, the tracks right now are down Route 65. Line 5 is tempting to send via 837 and Kennywood, but it might be better to just have that be a busway extension to McKeesport. Interline Lines 1 and 5 from downtown to Wilkinsburg alongside the busway. Split those routes up in Wilkinsburg with half the trips headed to Churchill and Monroeville and the other half to Swissvale, Rankin, Braddock, etc to Mckeesport.
A Pittsburgh Gondola system sounds so, so cool and complementary to the city's historic inclines. Continuing the age-old tradition of weird transit being used creatively in Pittsburgh due to its wild geography
Y'know having a lot of inspiration from Germany in your transit networks would make a lot of sense because Pennsylvania has a large German ancestral population! I mean even the name Pittsburgh itself is a pretty German sounding name!!
@@RepeatedFailure yeah when i wrote this i thought pittsburgh would have german etymology simply because strasburg pa did and that pittsburgh has alot of (presumably) german ancestry although i have no fuckin idea if it does🤣
Love to hear it! We hope to do more of these expansion map videos in the future, but in the meantime stay tuned for upcoming content from Chicago and Seattle!
Awesome video! Did not expect to see Pittsburgh but it works out! I think Philadelphia or Portland should be next. Both cities have solid systems that need some work.
Both would be great candidates! Philly would probably be more of a priority as it has some crazy unrealized potential, but I'd love to get around to Portland someday as well (PNW local here)
Did not expect to see Pittsburgh but since there's an existing light rail tunnel I think the existing and suggested light rail should be respectively rebuilt and built as Skytrain automated light metros. Heck, if PRT can get the existing southern light railways out of the street the existing cars can be retrofitted for automatic operation. I would love to see you do Miami next! In the late 70s and early 80s they built a Metrorail at $40 million a mile cheap by today's standards but Reagan thought it so wasteful he cancelled all future rapid transit projects. Result? The notorious Miami-Dade traffic.
At its peak, Pittsburgh Railways Company had over 600 miles of streetcar tracks and rights of way in the city. Interurbans connected the surrounding counties. Pittsburgh Railways ran interurbans to Washington, and Charleroi, PA. to the south. The Pittsburgh, Harmony Butler & Newcastle Railway served the north. West Penn Light Power & railways served Fayette and Westmoreland Counties to the East. Most ot these were built when and where there was NOTHING! They created their own markets. I believe that a regional light rail network has the potential to re-invigorate development in all of southwest Pennsylvania. This could include concepts like the German S-Bahn and U-Bahn. I remember "commuter rail" from when I was a child. One could take a B&O train to downtown Pittsburgh. But it was designed to discourage use. Scheduled arrival times in Downtown Pittsburgh in the AM were either 7:45 AM or after 9 AM. But on Saturdays we could get a B&O train at 8:30 AM in Hazelwood that would arrive in town at 8:45 AM. Go figure!
The west busway is missing it's most important part.... it's own bridge so the busses are forced across the Fort Pitt bridge (notoriously bad traffic during rush hour, and more) and onto East carson St to the entrance of the busway. That needs it's own dedicated route into downtown. Which means new bridge or tunnel, both being expensive. The west busway does connect to 376 which I know the airport flyer (express) uses. There is only one 'west busway route' the G2. There used to be a G1 as well, I don't remember which but one did just the west busway into downtown and one went out to robinson. Once you are on the busway, it's very quick. It's following an old railroad line, it most likely could be expanded, even converted to light rail but still have pavement for busses. There are still relics of those street car lines around, there part of one old route that was separate from road along route 60 coming out of the west end up into crafton where it most likely went back on street. I'm sure there are other abandoned old right of ways around. I know there was even parts you could still see heading up to Butler PA in the Forward Twp area along route 68. A major issue with Pittsburgh is that our highways, bridges and tunnels are sorely undersized and we need more bridges and tunnels, what we have backs up a lot. We are limited by steep hills and the geography of this region which can be difficult so adding bus or rail lines into the existing highways is going to require expanding those highways, bridges and tunnels. It is absolutely needed and there really isn't a lot of room to expand them. There are a lot of either still in use rail lines or abandoned lines in this region. There are a good amount that have been converted to rails to trails which complicates reusing some of the old rail lines for obvious reasons. There is considerable freight traffic on some of the existing lines through the region. So you'll most likely not be able to utilize those that are heavy freight lines and there are a lot of places where there simply is not room to add lines beside. Sometimes there is not enough 'air space' in places to even do elevated above the freight lines. There is the Wabash Tunnel behind station square, the old bridge piers are still on either side of the river but the bridge is long gone. There may be buildings in the way but getting a new bridge to downtown from that tunnel could allow light rail / busses to bypass the clogged bridges and tunnels. On the other side of the tunnel is the old bridge over route 51 which a business uses for a parking lot now. There is old right of way through this area including bridges across 376 right behind the fort pitt tunnels into the west end. Part of the line was removed when they renovated the west end circle. Now there is freight lines that run out along east carson st which is route 837. This section from southside to the Interchange 885 (mess) is in bad need of expansion to 4 lanes, there is a rails to trails old line on the river side of 837, up an embankment on the other side is active freight lines. If this whole area could be reconfigured getting the freight lines pushed further away from the river, expand route 837 and maybe even sneak in some sort of light rail. If you can get out to that interchange, there could be one that continues along the river into homestead and the waterfront and could even continue out further along the river. Now back to the interchange on 837. If you continue along 885 you could connect to a number of old rail lines that are either under utilized or abandoned. You could get some sort of light rail out to west Mifflin, pleasant hills, Jefferson hills among other areas. Coming out of downtown from 2nd ave, there is an old rail line which has been converted to rails to trails. There really isn't much space along here with 376 and 2nd ave all smushed together. But this could be another route out along the mon. There's lots of possible access to various neighborhoods along this route including oakland, greenfield, hazelwood. There's many, many old or current rail lines but figuring out how to use some of those and aquiring them is going to be challenging to say the least. There's many ideas and solutions but getting many those built is going to be very challenging. Pittsburgh need A LOT of funding to be able to build out a lot more of the transit network. There are loads of possibilities but funding is going to be quite challenging.
I’m curious about what you think of the proposed East Busway extensions. From my understanding, phase 1 will be to East Pittsburgh, phase 2 to McKeesport, and phase 3 will have a branch through Turtle Creek and then Monroeville. I get the allure of rail, but the East Busway already is very useful. It only takes like 15 minutes to get between downtown and Swissvale. And having a connection to a lot of those economically depressed towns in the Mon Valley is sure to be helpful for development there.
Extending the corridor to East Pittsburgh and having some form of express transit to McKeesport and Monroeville makes sense, but the East Busway is already busy enough that it could be operated more efficiently as a rail line
Glad you mentioned my hometown, Greensburg, in there. When I was living there, I would have loved to jump on a train to get to the city just for the day, but Amtrak is so terrible that it's impossible. I'd even settle for a connection to Murrysville right at the edge of Westmoreland county, with bus services into communities like Greensburg, Latrobe, and Jeanette. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this! Pittsburgh just feels so disconnected to it's metro area and surrounding towns and they need to capitalize on the existing infrastructure to rope these communities back in. Thanks for the video!
Thanks for the thoughtful improvements to the Pittsburgh transit system. I live on the other side of the state in suburban Philadelphia. But I have visited Pittsburgh several times. I have made use of both the bus and light rail system to get around. The improvements you propose look good but in many cases be expensive to implement. Pennsylvania is not known to give much money to fund transit compared to road improvements. One point I feel that could be changed to save money would be to keep the busway system and just add rails to extend some of the light rail system. Busses and the light rail already co use the existing transit tunnel so that proves busses and rail,can both use the same right of way. Since the busses use a station system you just have the light rail use some or all of the existing stations. Of course for longer routes you could build bypass tracks at some stations for express light rail service. At the end of the light rail service,bus routes could continue to leave the transit way and serve areas that build ridership to the light rail line or also use the transit way to continue to provide a one seat ride to downtown especially at rush hour. Keeping expansion plans lower cost, yet effective have a better chance of being funded, built and used.
I like the idea in the short term, though I’m not necessarily sure it would save money given the higher operating expenses. Long term the goal should probably be to just feed all bus routes into rail (something Philadelphia does a much better job with!)
@@thehouseoftransit2719 Philadelphia has been in the top 10 (mostly #5) populated cities for decades. Relatively flat. Constant density for miles. I am in my mid 70s and have used public transportation all my life. (I have lived all of them in busy East End neighborhoods) Too bad density in this East End area seldom occurs in other areas.
All this will never happen but we can dream about it tho. It would be awesome if it did. You’re gondola idea is the one I like the most. Pittsburgh might be the only city where that type of public transportation might be the best in some areas.
Westmoreland Transit is planning a similar expansion project, but with how service has been lately, I would focus less on expansion and more on improving the service. Quality over quantity.
There’s definitely a balance, but there’s no getting around the fact that the current rail system is inadequate and bus trips between downtown and Oakland are slower than they should be. Service improvements are very important, but so are infrastructure upgrades on busy corridors.
My only criticism is that you don't suggest reactivating the Allentown Light Rail Line. The big reason why it had low ridership before hand is that it only ran very infrequently during rush hours, so there was no reason to use it when there more frequently running bus service. I think I could be very useful if it ran at all times on a frequent schedule. Also if you're going to add rail to the East Busway which is pretty much grade separated, I think it would be better to go for a Skytrain like Innovia Light Metro that would run from Steel Plaza (taking over the Penn Station Spur) then continue along the existing East Busway to Swissvale or on to Braddock. Because it would be automated the trains would be able to run at very high frequencies without the cost of driver's (Pittsburgh has in the past been notorious for having operational funding cuts). I think you could still incorporate your stadbahn plans with the line through Oakland to Homestead, with a branch connecting to the new metro line at Shadyside. The transfer is offset by the super high freuqncies of the Metro. Otherwise, as someone who's visited Pittsburgh several times THIS SYSTEM WOULD BE AMAZING! I actually visited Oakmont and a S-Bahn train would be great!
The moment when 3 of the S Bahn lines are for the most part following interurban trolley lines that used to exist (Zielenople is using 2 different ones from the same network that closed in 1932). The Washington and Charleroi ones basically revive the parts cut off from the T network in 1957.
@@thehouseoftransit2719 i think the butler and harmony lines went under due to the great depression. As for Washington and Charleroi, I think I can safely chalk those two up to something the mayor pushed (corruption and lobbying with bus companies) to put buses everywhere that said "trolley = more crime" and people actually bought it
@@thehouseoftransit2719 If you're reviving some of the interurbans you might as well make them extensions of the T (or just lay their ROW as PA Trolley gauge)
@@triangulism Expansive as the interurbans were, the very essence of an interurban can be slow in nature and isn’t necessarily the best way to revive them. Mainline trains with higher top speeds and tracks that won’t interfere with existing light rail services are probably best
Since the Oakland connection is so important i think extending the VAL there would be critical, that way a proper metro thats not a tram tunnel connects the two cores.
I really like this. Although if we are ok with extensive tunnelling, I think it would be best to through-run the light rail network or form a downtown loop
That’s an interesting idea. I think it could work to form a loop, though the complication with through running is that it probably wouldn’t make sense for new lines to use the same high floor trains as the existing system
Convert the east and west busways to rapid transit at 1.435 mm track gauge and 750 Volt DC Third Rail and build a connecting tunnel with stations and then extend to Monroeville and the Pittsburgh Airport.
With S-bahn no need for the LRT branches and they pass through not end at the center. Automate the blue line and have a tunnel replace the Allentown branch
This is what we need here and needed for many years. But............ Never going to happen. This isn't California, we don't think big here, we hate change. And the PRT needs to be a truly regional transit agency but that's not going to happen either. I used to ridicule the surrounding counties for not wanting to join a greater regional transit agency but now I understand why. If the surrounding counties would impose say like a percent sales tax to fund transit, they would just be subsidizing service in Allegheny County with little improvement in service. Think back to the whole sports stadium, ballpark and arena proposals back in the late 90's. Pennsylvania doesn't think big either, and when it does it funds big projects in Philadelphia. I used to be cynical to the naysayers but in such a corrupt area I now understand their opposition to more spending. Another thing is that the county is dependent on paid parking at the airport and downtown for revenue, they aren't going to do anything that is going to kill that cash cow.
cool video!! i've always thought the traintracks going through the state had such wasted potential, i'd go to the city so much more if i didn't have to drive! i've lived in new ken for the past 16 years and it's so sad to hear about how nice it used to be. there's some cool shops around but i wish i coulda experienced what it was like.. or at the very least have an actual grocery shop instead of loads of dollar stores that you can only walk to if you cross the main drag 🙃
It’s certainly a shame seeing how vibrant these small towns used to be. A rail connection would be a game changer not only for reaching the activity in Pittsburgh, but also for brining some of it back to towns like New Kensington!
With light rail to Oakland and Braddock and a 7 line regional rail system. the regional rail system would be electrified at 25KV 60 HZ AC. Hard to reach destinations would be served by gondolas.
I would love your Light rail revamp, plus alot of you changes. The only issue is the fact this would cost hundred of millions and take YEARS AND YEARS to build. Allentown is open when The MT Washington tunnel is closed. and Penn Station is used when Wood street is closed. Too get further you get on a Bus Shuttle that goes between Penn and Gateway which stops at Wood Street.
I have one issue with this plan. There is no light rail service directly to the airport to downtown. While BRT could provide a connection, it's still not a "premium" service like light rail.
Buses are often seen as a second-class alternative to rail, but they can be just as comfortable and in this case might even be faster! PIT is really far from central Pittsburgh, so a light rail line would just end up following the freeway as the planned busway will (but costing a lot more in the process)
You can't expect passenger to use AMTRAK leaving Penn Station Pittsburgh M-F at 7:30 AM to pull into Greensburg PA at 8:11 AM looking out window to 3 blocks away to see buses for Westmoreland Transit lined up to where AMTRAK and would be WCTA passengers wanting to access between both to wait 2 hours for WCTA as they leave Offices of WCTA at 8:15AM not returning until they return to pull back out at 10:15 as the first WCTA 4 leaves Greensburg about 6 AM to be in Pittsburgh at 8 AM to pull back to Greensburg from Pittsburgh at 10:15 AM while WCTA riders wanting to get to/from tracks for Pennsylvanian eastbound can't get to the tracks to catch train. It gets deeply worse as I can explain far more that Board of Directors refuse to fix as PRT its self is overlapped by outer systems where would be riders can't connect to nothing.
The original plan for the light rail line is to connect it to the airport going thru north side belview coraopolis robert moris college moon but it won't happen any time soon.
The expansion needs to focus on Allegheny county first before any thought of reaching out further . People moved out there to avoid paying taxes so let them fund their own connections
Allegheny County and City of Pittsburgh, Allegheny Conference, SPC that is the Southwestern Pennsylvania Regional Planning Commission that dropped Regional out of its name with the rest of the Board of Directors clearly from the pre birthing of PAT now PRT planned from the start in 1950's planned to attack railroads, trolley lines and more as all they have done from the start is cut, cut and cut more and more over the years. The mere fact that Pennsylvania Canals Western Division from Plane 1 of the Allegheny Portage RR had the Western PA RR build in the Western Division of PA Canal out through Blairsville, Saltsburg, Torrance crossing the Allegheny River at Schenley down the Allegheny River to Allegheny City Terminus at PNC Park today with crossing the Pittsburgh Fort Wayne & Chicago Trestle to AMTRAK/Greyhound building those areas first. Then from Bolivar PA Westmoreland/Indiana County line pushing the 2nd line down through Derry Yard wye in Latrobe picking up Judge Mellons Ligonier Valley RR for PRR to push through Greensburg to Pittsburgh clearly has the potiential to rebuild passenger trains and end Westmoreland Transit overlapping to/from Pittsburgh.
We have the Pennsylvanian but how are we to keep it and the to be return train when fixed transit here in SPC Region is preventing existing and would be riders from accessing fixed transit statewide and preventing us from accessing Pennsylvanian, Capitol Limited and would be return train from New York NY areas
Overall there’s some nice thoughts in here yet a lot overlooked. The reality is between age, Maintenance issues, Staffing, and gov interference in some of the worst ways Light Rail, has about reached its limit in the PGH region, If you’re going to go whole hog and suggest more tunnels, many spurs, Oakland to which PAAC & others basically said no, multiple types of rail or multiple modes Then response would be I’d rather we did 1 and multiple expansions at once that mode being to build a replica Metro Of DC with maybe some inspiration from other places which PGH Should’ve done from the start. Having most of the system underground would solve many of infrastructure and property impact issues, doing heavy metro rail or a heavy-light hybrid reminiscent of CLE Rapid would alleviate some maintenance issues and the inability to replace aged out stuff ( a big issue we are facing now ) If we’re gonna go big anyway I could see a DC or NYC Style Metro covering some parts of the existing light rail but branching out in the following ways • A North Hills RT 65 Ohio Valley Sewickley Spur/Line • A North Hills RT 19 McCandless, Cranberry, Possibly New Castle/Zelionople spur • An Allegheny Valley RT 28 Fox Chapel Harmar New Ken spur • A West End, Crafton Kennedy , Robinson , Airport Spur maybe also extended to the various Amazon sites out that way and link to Weirton WV & Steubenville Ohio A small little known transit agency Known as SVRTA does a Robinson-Weirton-Steubenville route but with limited services and is in life support Giving them an option and links or folding them into a potential PRT Merger as PAAC adds “regional” to its moniker and would be expanding under such rail extension could work for all parties • An East End Wilkinsburg, Edgewood Monroeville CCAC Line and • A East End Wilkinsburg Edgewood, Braddock Versailles, McKeesport line
New Castle operates Route 71 from the Transit Center that sits on the New Castle, Franklin & Clarion RR right of way as Route 71 follows the old A&A Railroad along U.S. 422 then down U.S. 18 left PA 488 at Portersville Exit to stop at Zelienople PNR then down I 79 to I 279 to I 579 to AMTRAK as Butler uses PA 356 to PA 68W to Zelienople PNR down to Pittsburgh as both New Castle and Butler thanks to mistake 7 Fields and Adams Township made years after Grove City Coach Lines folded had one of the past shareholders for Grove City Coach Lines and PHB&NC Rwy and Beaver Falls had that retired owner of New Castle Transit try to run a route from NC to Ellwood PA out on the past route for defunct Grove City Coach Lines. Leaving the man only option to push trips on Route 71 to Pittsburgh to due its current routing where both New Castle and Butler are forced by 7 Fields and Adams Township to not service PA 68 east of PA 528 eliminating U.S. 19 to West View Plaza as Butler and New Castle refuse to operate local on major growing areas since I was a boy.
Century III has been gone since well before this video was made. Though transit along PA51 would be helpful. A park-and-ride at the 51 end of the PA43 toll road would make that road actually useful. For now, its is almost always empty. And the extension is doubly-useless since it goes to a place nobody wants to go.
@@thehouseoftransit2719 I merely meant the through running making the services a one hop ride across the region. The frequency would be whatever best fits
Hello! A resident of Pittsburgh here! I'd love to pick your brain to help reactivating rail in PGH with an agency that has succumbed to the falsity that is austerity...
@@thehouseoftransit2719 "Make no little plans. They have no magic to stir men's blood" -Daniel Burnham The thing I know about state politics in relation to transit is that it's always an uphill battle. However, PRT's uninspiring leadership certainly does not help to move the needle. Southwestern PA deserves better.
I do think, with the Innamorato administration, that there will be new channels to create more inspiring visions and leadership. Would love to talk about this more. How do I get in touch?
Grandiose ideas, to be sure, but the Silver Line/Library branch of the T STILL is an inconsistent mass transit service that needs and deserves the upgrading to similar standards long enjoyed by Red Line/ Blue Line commuters. We Silver Line commuters are still patiently waiting…. ☹️ 🚞 🇺🇸
We have to hope the Port Authority will pour the necessary investment into bringing the branch up to modern standards rather than abandoning it as they have suggested doing
@@thehouseoftransit2719 We cannot allow such a blunder to occur. Such a foolhardy decision would be a major setback to the South Hills commuters by adding MANY vehicles to already congested traffic, as well as a NATIONAL EMBARRASSMENT of SHRINKING light rail rather than EXPANSION of light rail, which is occurring around the nation. 🚞
1:01 there are many contributors to the “slowness” of the existing Light Rail ( T ) is attributable to many factors The largest being the age of the rail cars themselves, the overkill technology on the rail cars, The perpetual state of repair issues on most of the line and governments hands in that, among others
@@chrispontani7637 I’m not sure if you’re familiar with S Bahn systems but essentially they involve a core trunk with lots of capacity and frequent service and a lot of through running branches which usually run at 10 or 20 minute intervals. SEPTA’s Center City tunnel for Regional Rail was designed to allow for the exact same style of service, but SEPTA never ran enough trains or lowered fares to really complete the concept. Fortunately they are finally looking at infrastructure and service improvements that will make SEPTA Regional Rail much more like a true S Bahn system.
While I do think lightrails are incredible, I was reading about how they use the busways for emergency vehicle transport so idk which would be more practical having a bus way or light rail system. I think initial cost for busways are cheaper, but light rail is cheaper in the long run.
I did notice a passing ambulance or two on the East Busway, so it’s a fair point. It would be possible to continue to allow use of the right of way for emergency vehicles, and since stations are extra wide those vehicles could pass trains when they stop. Alternatively, 376 could start to take more of a role as the express thoroughfare. The costs often stem from how much ridership you’re getting-busways often make sense on corridors where the demand isn’t terribly high. There’s enough demand in the east of the region that I think it’s safe to say the corridor warrants rail.
The fact that it’s a straight shot from the airport to downtown with Moon, Robinson, Carnegie and Greentree on the way but we don’t have a train that connects it is an embarrassment.
Don't be embarrassed BJ. When USAir pulled the PIT hub, most of the employees at the airport went too. There is just not enough density to justify train service.
We can go from Grantsville MD's Piolet Truck stop with Bay Runner West but FACT Bus can't make connections to Piolet and FACT says he can't loop buses at Fallingwater do to parking lot issues as Ohiopyle is needing bus route as Somerset County has no means to connect to Cambria City/Rural Divisions and no service in Somerset County to connect to FACT as Huntingdon, Bedford & Fulton County is so badly underfunded which prevents Rich Farr CEO of Rabbits York County's home Base and his take over of Capitol District routes that once was Capitol Area Transit can't make connections beyond Shippensburg, Chamberburg, Duncannon PA area do to our PA Democrats and PRR Management created a hellish war war with Vanderbilt's and the Alphabet lines so long ago. Yes these points may not seem like sense to you but trust me these are well hidden facts that's helping to keep our 8 State areas from being properly connected as Thaddeous Steven's worked with Ahl's brothers and the Vanderbilts that were attacking our worthless Democratic Party and PRR Management and more as they were trying to better Passenger Trains, Fright Trains, and would be future Motor Coach and fixed transit lines down in time as because of the mistakes made we here in PA are screwed into our 8 state area.
The Allentown Route wasn’t useless. It was an important connection for the south hilltop neighborhoods. It had low ridership because it was a pretty poor area, and there were affordability issues. Though the neighborhood has been getting more attention lately, and they’re considering bringing it back in some capacity. All the infrastructure is still maintained, and used whenever the Mt. Washington tunnel is underling maintenance, so it’s really just a matter of paying drivers to go through there.
It would be best for Rich Farr to take over SPC Systems as he would be far better to operate New Castle, Butler, Armstrong, IndiGo, PRT, Washington Rides Freedom Transit out of Washington County PA with Fayette Area Coordinated Transportation & Westmoreland as a whole. As Rich is building as all current PRT Region is doing is making things deeply worse. Kathleen is trying but she is hand tied with the Board of Directors and Unions keep our Region from growing and with far more mistakes of cutting routes from 1950's is harming us here in SW,NW,NC and SC PA as a whole.
@thehouseoftransit2719 Redevelopment will take 30 to 50 years in that area. Heck, the mill that was torn down in Braddock still isn't redeveloped. Talking about Carie Furnace location.
Pennsylvania Democrats and Pennsylvania Railroad Management were negligent piggish with deeper newer facts that I've learned about that made things worse as PAT now PRT Board of Directors made things deeply worse over the years. Penn DOT cutting funds in 1990s that folded Grove City Coach Lines, as Greyhound, Lincoln Coach did all they could to fully isolate fixed transit systems of EMTA Erie, Mercer, Crawford-Venango Bus in Venango County PA, New Castle, Butler, Armstong Towne & Country, IndiGo in Indiana County PA as Rabbit Transit is operating IndiGO's Paratransit. 7 County Area Transit Authority of Central PA, Warren/Forest County Medical trips only for Pittsburgh and Erie. Fully disconnected State College is broken to ATA of Central PA, AMTRAN Altoona, WCTA, Somerset, Westmoreland and much more.
Thanks for the feedback! PIT is really far from central Pittsburgh, so a light rail line would be pretty complicated compared to extending the West Busway there, which provides comparable speed and comfort at a much lower cost
Pittsburgh is a dying city that can’t even balance the budget. And please don’t say federal monies. Fed money is better spent in cities that have super growth.. Austin, Charlotte, etc. No one wants to move to Pitt why spend money on it.
Hello! Resident Pittsburgher here, with a few comments:
- The light rail is a bit streetcar-esque, but one could argue that that's the point of light rail - it's not trying to be commuter rail (cough, Dallas) or metro (cough, Seattle), it's genuinely a streetcar system upgraded to modern standards. So yeah, I get the bus-esque feeling that comes with it, but that's a feature, not a bug. Plus, it's way faster than buses during events such as Steelers/Pirates/Pens games (it serves all 3 stadiums/arenas), concerts, and the Fourth of July celebration recently.
- The South Busway is not irrelevant! It's simply an access road. A lot of the routes between Pittsburgh and its southern neighbors involve tunnels through Mount Washington, and these can get clogged with traffic. Having a transit-only tunnel and a special bus-only highway south of that can help buses dodge congestion.
- Light rail to Oakland is arguably one of the most needed transit projects in the entire state, if not the entire country. (I may be biased as it would go right past Carlow, my school!)
- I don't think removing a chunk of the east busway would be helpful. There's a ton of ridership between downtown and the outer stations, and taking the current route would eliminate additional crowding of students and health workers in Oakland. Rather, I think these should both be separate entities. Ideally tracks would be laid into the busway to operate high-capacity rail service replacing the P1 and P2, with trains dumping into Steel Plaza; your Oakland line would replace the P3, and longer-distance routes would remain the same.
- 376 express bus service is such a good idea! I love it! I never thought about it before.
- Love the S Bahn idea. Not sure Norfolk Southern would...
Overall, I LOVE this!
Excited to see you stop by (I watch your channel)!
These are all valid critiques, particularly given you have more experience in the region. I’d argue a lot of these considerations reflect something that I noticed a lot while visiting, which is that the integration between the bus system and the rail system is quite limited, and almost no bus routes feed into rail stations.
Calling the south busway irrelevant maybe isn’t fair in the system’s current state-I would say though that it’s rather unusual that the busway and rail route largely duplicate each other rather than buses terminating at stations and service hours instead going to running more rail service, as is done in many other regions with light rail. But if one seat rides and buses heading all the way into downtown is a priority, the South Busway is a solid solution.
I think capacity concerns surrounding rail along the East Busway and through Oakland could be mitigated by using trains at least as long as the current two car sets and running significantly more service. Pittsburgh’s a comparatively small region and much larger metro areas squeeze massive capacity out of small trains.
This is true about trackage rights. A regional rail system is more than feasible but the freights need to be, well, forced to play along…
Definitely appreciate hearing your feedback and will be looking out for your next video!
1. As someone who's visited Pittsbrugh many times and taken the bus as far as Coapolis and Oakmont, I think the S-Bahn system is the lowest hanging fruit proposed in this video (at least it would be in Europe) If NS continues to give middle fingers to passenger rail, I think there needs to be a federal law that requires railroads to work with regions if they want to implement regional rail, using the threat of a penalty corporate income tax and loss federal funding eligibility if they don't comply.
The East Busway should've followed 376 from Wilkinsburg to Monroeville instead of going to Swissvale. And it should be heavy rail, not light rail.
The South Busway gets buses off the very congested RT 51.
Agreed to Downtown to Oakland light rail, either elevated or underground.
How about a West Busway extension to Robinson, Moon, and the airport? It can be left as a Busway for now.
@@thehouseoftransit2719I think the South Busway could be made a lot more useful if they put in dedicated bus lanes along Route 51. The road has four lanes for cars, which is totally unnecessary. Make a couple into bus lanes for quick rides along 51, and then they can get on the South Busway at Overbrook to avoid stop lights the rest of the way. Though keep the dedicated bus lanes going to South Hills Junction to better serve Carrick and Overbrook with a route.
This should be accompanied by lots of transit-oriented redevelopment. Transform the strip malls along 51 into a walkable, mixed-use business district, and transform the parking-lot desert in West Mifflin, in and around Century 3, into a proper, walkable community. This is all a pipe dream, as it would involve getting several suburban municipalities to work together on a transit project, but it would be a great transformation of the area, and it would offer much-needed service to places like Baldwin.
As a final side note, I still appreciate the South Busway as a Brookline resident. It gives me a nice ten minute commute to downtown.
@thedapperdolphin1590 as of right now, with route 51 sometimes backing up (particularly near route 88) it is totally necessary to have 4 lanes. This transiting to more density would need to happen first
I think the Allentown Line is kept in tact as an alternative to the Mount Washington Transit Tunnel, in case the tunnel is closed.
That’s the largest reason
Allentown is kept intact
and even still maintained
There’s also a hope on
various sides the
former 52/Brown or line
could see eventual
re-activation of service in some
capacity leading to rail cars actually making stops in the neighborhood
It is. But in the NEXT 25 year plan for Pittsburgh transit, the Allentown line is going to go under review to try and bring it back as population increased in the area and people been asking for it.
3:48 "Century III, Chevrolet, Lebanon Church Road, Pittsburgh. Minutes from the mall!" 🎵 ua-cam.com/video/h68G-DUBZn4/v-deo.html
we really do need more transit up the Allegheny valley. the 28 "express"way is hardly that anymore. it's always congested as it's the only highway that connects all of the north/northeast suburbs to downtown. i think expanding the Allegheny valley transit options is included in the NEXT plan, hopefully something comes of it!
Looked like it, it was pretty vague but hopefully some solid options come from their study
Pittsburgh resident here.
I would make a 5 lines
Line 1 (PGH International to Monroeville) , the line would go through downtown , the growing east end , Wilkensburg and finally Monroeville. Stops in Green Tree , Carnegie , and Robinson
Line 2 (South Hills village to Cranberry) It would extend the current line run Parallel to I-279 , I-79. Stops in West view , Ross , Wexford.
Line 3 (Downtown to Penn Hills) Stop in Oakland , Squirrel Hill , East Liberty , Lawrenceville.
Line 4 (North Shore to Ambridge). Runs along rt. 65. Stops in Bellevue , Avalon , Ben Avon , Sewickley.
Line 5 (rt. 837). Station Square to Mckeesport. Help revitalize the 837 area.
It will never happen. Area is not big enough. Just my dream.
Are these rail lines or?
Line 1 effectively follows and extends the busways to where they are needed.
Line 2 is the Shopper...
Line 3 makes no sense at all. If you are doing downtown to Penn Hills, the fastest route would be via Penn Ave between downtown and East Liberty and then via Frankstown, effectively 88 Penn to 77 Penn Hills. Otherwise if you want to serve Lawrenceville, use that to also serve the Allegheny Valley, effectively an extension of the 91 Butler Street.
Line 4 I wouldn't have running down 65. It should follow the 16 Brighton. Granted, the tracks right now are down Route 65.
Line 5 is tempting to send via 837 and Kennywood, but it might be better to just have that be a busway extension to McKeesport.
Interline Lines 1 and 5 from downtown to Wilkinsburg alongside the busway. Split those routes up in Wilkinsburg with half the trips headed to Churchill and Monroeville and the other half to Swissvale, Rankin, Braddock, etc to Mckeesport.
A Pittsburgh Gondola system sounds so, so cool and complementary to the city's historic inclines. Continuing the age-old tradition of weird transit being used creatively in Pittsburgh due to its wild geography
Y'know having a lot of inspiration from Germany in your transit networks would make a lot of sense because Pennsylvania has a large German ancestral population! I mean even the name Pittsburgh itself is a pretty German sounding name!!
Ah, perfect!
Pittsburgh has the same root ending as Edinburgh (and was perhaps intended to be pronounced the same, whoops), so it has a Scotts etymology.
Burgh means "fortress"
@@RepeatedFailure yeah when i wrote this i thought pittsburgh would have german etymology simply because strasburg pa did and that pittsburgh has alot of (presumably) german ancestry although i have no fuckin idea if it does🤣
I also saw your Denver and Boston videos. This content is remarkably thoughtful and fun to watch! Please keep going!
Love to hear it! We hope to do more of these expansion map videos in the future, but in the meantime stay tuned for upcoming content from Chicago and Seattle!
Awesome video! Did not expect to see Pittsburgh but it works out! I think Philadelphia or Portland should be next. Both cities have solid systems that need some work.
Both would be great candidates! Philly would probably be more of a priority as it has some crazy unrealized potential, but I'd love to get around to Portland someday as well (PNW local here)
Idk how this ended up in my feed, all the way in India, but it's a great video. Here's to wishing all the success to you! Keep making videos!
Thanks for watching!
UA-cam algorithm
Gotta love it
😂🤣
A warm welcome to all of our Indian friends!! ❤ 🚂 🇺🇸
literally love this series
Ayyy ‘preciate it
Did not expect to see Pittsburgh but since there's an existing light rail tunnel I think the existing and suggested light rail should be respectively rebuilt and built as Skytrain automated light metros. Heck, if PRT can get the existing southern light railways out of the street the existing cars can be retrofitted for automatic operation.
I would love to see you do Miami next! In the late 70s and early 80s they built a Metrorail at $40 million a mile cheap by today's standards but Reagan thought it so wasteful he cancelled all future rapid transit projects. Result? The notorious Miami-Dade traffic.
Miami would be an interesting one to work on at some point
Nice vid glad you mentioned Monroeville
At its peak, Pittsburgh Railways Company had over 600 miles of streetcar tracks and rights of way in the city. Interurbans connected the surrounding counties. Pittsburgh Railways ran interurbans to Washington, and Charleroi, PA. to the south. The Pittsburgh, Harmony Butler & Newcastle Railway served the north. West Penn Light Power & railways served Fayette and Westmoreland Counties to the East. Most ot these were built when and where there was NOTHING! They created their own markets. I believe that a regional light rail network has the potential to re-invigorate development in all of southwest Pennsylvania. This could include concepts like the German S-Bahn and U-Bahn. I remember "commuter rail" from when I was a child. One could take a B&O train to downtown Pittsburgh. But it was designed to discourage use. Scheduled arrival times in Downtown Pittsburgh in the AM were either 7:45 AM or after 9 AM. But on Saturdays we could get a B&O train at 8:30 AM in Hazelwood that would arrive in town at 8:45 AM. Go figure!
The west busway is missing it's most important part.... it's own bridge so the busses are forced across the Fort Pitt bridge (notoriously bad traffic during rush hour, and more) and onto East carson St to the entrance of the busway. That needs it's own dedicated route into downtown. Which means new bridge or tunnel, both being expensive. The west busway does connect to 376 which I know the airport flyer (express) uses. There is only one 'west busway route' the G2. There used to be a G1 as well, I don't remember which but one did just the west busway into downtown and one went out to robinson. Once you are on the busway, it's very quick. It's following an old railroad line, it most likely could be expanded, even converted to light rail but still have pavement for busses. There are still relics of those street car lines around, there part of one old route that was separate from road along route 60 coming out of the west end up into crafton where it most likely went back on street. I'm sure there are other abandoned old right of ways around. I know there was even parts you could still see heading up to Butler PA in the Forward Twp area along route 68.
A major issue with Pittsburgh is that our highways, bridges and tunnels are sorely undersized and we need more bridges and tunnels, what we have backs up a lot. We are limited by steep hills and the geography of this region which can be difficult so adding bus or rail lines into the existing highways is going to require expanding those highways, bridges and tunnels. It is absolutely needed and there really isn't a lot of room to expand them.
There are a lot of either still in use rail lines or abandoned lines in this region. There are a good amount that have been converted to rails to trails which complicates reusing some of the old rail lines for obvious reasons. There is considerable freight traffic on some of the existing lines through the region. So you'll most likely not be able to utilize those that are heavy freight lines and there are a lot of places where there simply is not room to add lines beside. Sometimes there is not enough 'air space' in places to even do elevated above the freight lines.
There is the Wabash Tunnel behind station square, the old bridge piers are still on either side of the river but the bridge is long gone. There may be buildings in the way but getting a new bridge to downtown from that tunnel could allow light rail / busses to bypass the clogged bridges and tunnels.
On the other side of the tunnel is the old bridge over route 51 which a business uses for a parking lot now. There is old right of way through this area including bridges across 376 right behind the fort pitt tunnels into the west end. Part of the line was removed when they renovated the west end circle.
Now there is freight lines that run out along east carson st which is route 837. This section from southside to the Interchange 885 (mess) is in bad need of expansion to 4 lanes, there is a rails to trails old line on the river side of 837, up an embankment on the other side is active freight lines. If this whole area could be reconfigured getting the freight lines pushed further away from the river, expand route 837 and maybe even sneak in some sort of light rail. If you can get out to that interchange, there could be one that continues along the river into homestead and the waterfront and could even continue out further along the river.
Now back to the interchange on 837. If you continue along 885 you could connect to a number of old rail lines that are either under utilized or abandoned. You could get some sort of light rail out to west Mifflin, pleasant hills, Jefferson hills among other areas.
Coming out of downtown from 2nd ave, there is an old rail line which has been converted to rails to trails. There really isn't much space along here with 376 and 2nd ave all smushed together. But this could be another route out along the mon. There's lots of possible access to various neighborhoods along this route including oakland, greenfield, hazelwood.
There's many, many old or current rail lines but figuring out how to use some of those and aquiring them is going to be challenging to say the least.
There's many ideas and solutions but getting many those built is going to be very challenging. Pittsburgh need A LOT of funding to be able to build out a lot more of the transit network. There are loads of possibilities but funding is going to be quite challenging.
Would totally love to see a video like this on Toronto!
@@leohalpern Toronto’s got good expansion plans already, but perhaps someday!
I’m curious about what you think of the proposed East Busway extensions. From my understanding, phase 1 will be to East Pittsburgh, phase 2 to McKeesport, and phase 3 will have a branch through Turtle Creek and then Monroeville.
I get the allure of rail, but the East Busway already is very useful. It only takes like 15 minutes to get between downtown and Swissvale. And having a connection to a lot of those economically depressed towns in the Mon Valley is sure to be helpful for development there.
Extending the corridor to East Pittsburgh and having some form of express transit to McKeesport and Monroeville makes sense, but the East Busway is already busy enough that it could be operated more efficiently as a rail line
great video and love the production quality
Thank you Andy 🫡
Glad you mentioned my hometown, Greensburg, in there. When I was living there, I would have loved to jump on a train to get to the city just for the day, but Amtrak is so terrible that it's impossible. I'd even settle for a connection to Murrysville right at the edge of Westmoreland county, with bus services into communities like Greensburg, Latrobe, and Jeanette. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this! Pittsburgh just feels so disconnected to it's metro area and surrounding towns and they need to capitalize on the existing infrastructure to rope these communities back in. Thanks for the video!
Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for the thoughtful improvements to the Pittsburgh transit system. I live on the other side of the state in suburban Philadelphia. But I have visited Pittsburgh several times. I have made use of both the bus and light rail system to get around. The improvements you propose look good but in many cases be expensive to implement. Pennsylvania is not known to give much money to fund transit compared to road improvements. One point I feel that could be changed to save money would be to keep the busway system and just add rails to extend some of the light rail system. Busses and the light rail already co use the existing transit tunnel so that proves busses and rail,can both use the same right of way. Since the busses use a station system you just have the light rail use some or all of the existing stations. Of course for longer routes you could build bypass tracks at some stations for express light rail service. At the end of the light rail service,bus routes could continue to leave the transit way and serve areas that build ridership to the light rail line or also use the transit way to continue to provide a one seat ride to downtown especially at rush hour. Keeping expansion plans lower cost, yet effective have a better chance of being funded, built and used.
I like the idea in the short term, though I’m not necessarily sure it would save money given the higher operating expenses. Long term the goal should probably be to just feed all bus routes into rail (something Philadelphia does a much better job with!)
@@thehouseoftransit2719 Philadelphia has been in the top 10 (mostly #5) populated cities for decades. Relatively flat. Constant density for miles. I am in my mid 70s and have used public transportation all my life. (I have lived all of them in busy East End neighborhoods) Too bad density in this East End area seldom occurs in other areas.
All this will never happen but we can dream about it tho. It would be awesome if it did. You’re gondola idea is the one I like the most. Pittsburgh might be the only city where that type of public transportation might be the best in some areas.
Thank you for talking about Pittsburgh transit.Herd about the new passenger rail on the csx line I think?
Have not heard of it
Westmoreland Transit is planning a similar expansion project, but with how service has been lately, I would focus less on expansion and more on improving the service. Quality over quantity.
There’s definitely a balance, but there’s no getting around the fact that the current rail system is inadequate and bus trips between downtown and Oakland are slower than they should be. Service improvements are very important, but so are infrastructure upgrades on busy corridors.
@thehouseoftransit2719 baby steps and it'll get there. I just started driving again, but I still use the 1 every now and again.
My only criticism is that you don't suggest reactivating the Allentown Light Rail Line. The big reason why it had low ridership before hand is that it only ran very infrequently during rush hours, so there was no reason to use it when there more frequently running bus service. I think I could be very useful if it ran at all times on a frequent schedule.
Also if you're going to add rail to the East Busway which is pretty much grade separated, I think it would be better to go for a Skytrain like Innovia Light Metro that would run from Steel Plaza (taking over the Penn Station Spur) then continue along the existing East Busway to Swissvale or on to Braddock. Because it would be automated the trains would be able to run at very high frequencies without the cost of driver's (Pittsburgh has in the past been notorious for having operational funding cuts). I think you could still incorporate your stadbahn plans with the line through Oakland to Homestead, with a branch connecting to the new metro line at Shadyside. The transfer is offset by the super high freuqncies of the Metro.
Otherwise, as someone who's visited Pittsburgh several times THIS SYSTEM WOULD BE AMAZING! I actually visited Oakmont and a S-Bahn train would be great!
The moment when 3 of the S Bahn lines are for the most part following interurban trolley lines that used to exist (Zielenople is using 2 different ones from the same network that closed in 1932). The Washington and Charleroi ones basically revive the parts cut off from the T network in 1957.
@@triangulism unfortunate they were ever torn up!
@@thehouseoftransit2719 i think the butler and harmony lines went under due to the great depression. As for Washington and Charleroi, I think I can safely chalk those two up to something the mayor pushed (corruption and lobbying with bus companies) to put buses everywhere that said "trolley = more crime" and people actually bought it
@@thehouseoftransit2719 If you're reviving some of the interurbans you might as well make them extensions of the T (or just lay their ROW as PA Trolley gauge)
@@triangulism Expansive as the interurbans were, the very essence of an interurban can be slow in nature and isn’t necessarily the best way to revive them. Mainline trains with higher top speeds and tracks that won’t interfere with existing light rail services are probably best
manifesting this
Since the Oakland connection is so important i think extending the VAL there would be critical, that way a proper metro thats not a tram tunnel connects the two cores.
The tram tunnel should function similarly to a metro, but if capacity were to become a concern extending the metro there seems smart
Coraopolis made the video! Nice!
@@houckola84 never been but I like your town’s name!
Do you have a link to the final map (it looks like it was done in Google Maps?). If so could you drop a link in the description? Thanks.
Done!
@thehouseoftransit2719 Thanks!
I really like this. Although if we are ok with extensive tunnelling, I think it would be best to through-run the light rail network or form a downtown loop
That’s an interesting idea. I think it could work to form a loop, though the complication with through running is that it probably wouldn’t make sense for new lines to use the same high floor trains as the existing system
Convert the east and west busways to rapid transit at 1.435 mm track gauge and 750 Volt DC Third Rail and build a connecting tunnel with stations and then extend to Monroeville and the Pittsburgh Airport.
Who is gonna pay for that?
With S-bahn no need for the LRT branches and they pass through not end at the center. Automate the blue line and have a tunnel replace the Allentown branch
This is what we need here and needed for many years. But............
Never going to happen. This isn't California, we don't think big here, we hate change. And the PRT needs to be a truly regional transit agency but that's not going to happen either. I used to ridicule the surrounding counties for not wanting to join a greater regional transit agency but now I understand why. If the surrounding counties would impose say like a percent sales tax to fund transit, they would just be subsidizing service in Allegheny County with little improvement in service. Think back to the whole sports stadium, ballpark and arena proposals back in the late 90's.
Pennsylvania doesn't think big either, and when it does it funds big projects in Philadelphia. I used to be cynical to the naysayers but in such a corrupt area I now understand their opposition to more spending.
Another thing is that the county is dependent on paid parking at the airport and downtown for revenue, they aren't going to do anything that is going to kill that cash cow.
cool video!! i've always thought the traintracks going through the state had such wasted potential, i'd go to the city so much more if i didn't have to drive! i've lived in new ken for the past 16 years and it's so sad to hear about how nice it used to be. there's some cool shops around but i wish i coulda experienced what it was like.. or at the very least have an actual grocery shop instead of loads of dollar stores that you can only walk to if you cross the main drag 🙃
It’s certainly a shame seeing how vibrant these small towns used to be. A rail connection would be a game changer not only for reaching the activity in Pittsburgh, but also for brining some of it back to towns like New Kensington!
With light rail to Oakland and Braddock and a 7 line regional rail system. the regional rail system would be electrified at 25KV 60 HZ AC. Hard to reach destinations would be served by gondolas.
You’d need like 500 billion for all this lol
Can you do this for South Florida Metro?
Would be fun eventually
I would love your Light rail revamp, plus alot of you changes. The only issue is the fact this would cost hundred of millions and take YEARS AND YEARS to build.
Allentown is open when The MT Washington tunnel is closed. and Penn Station is used when Wood street is closed. Too get further you get on a Bus Shuttle that goes between Penn and Gateway which stops at Wood Street.
Drivel from yet another arm chair expert.
can you do one of these for san francisco/bay area? these videos are great!
Thanks! There are some other cities we’d like to cover first but it would be fun to do eventually
I have one issue with this plan. There is no light rail service directly to the airport to downtown. While BRT could provide a connection, it's still not a "premium" service like light rail.
Buses are often seen as a second-class alternative to rail, but they can be just as comfortable and in this case might even be faster! PIT is really far from central Pittsburgh, so a light rail line would just end up following the freeway as the planned busway will (but costing a lot more in the process)
You can't expect passenger to use AMTRAK leaving Penn Station Pittsburgh M-F at 7:30 AM to pull into Greensburg PA at 8:11 AM looking out window to 3 blocks away to see buses for Westmoreland Transit lined up to where AMTRAK and would be WCTA passengers wanting to access between both to wait 2 hours for WCTA as they leave Offices of WCTA at 8:15AM not returning until they return to pull back out at 10:15 as the first WCTA 4 leaves Greensburg about 6 AM to be in Pittsburgh at 8 AM to pull back to Greensburg from Pittsburgh at 10:15 AM while WCTA riders wanting to get to/from tracks for Pennsylvanian eastbound can't get to the tracks to catch train. It gets deeply worse as I can explain far more that Board of Directors refuse to fix as PRT its self is overlapped by outer systems where would be riders can't connect to nothing.
The original plan for the light rail line is to connect it to the airport going thru north side belview coraopolis robert moris college moon but it won't happen any time soon.
Wasn’t actually aware of that. It’s a decent corridor but probably makes sense as a mainline rail branch
The expansion needs to focus on Allegheny county first before any thought of reaching out further . People moved out there to avoid paying taxes so let them fund their own connections
Definitely more commuter rail.
Allegheny County and City of Pittsburgh, Allegheny Conference, SPC that is the Southwestern Pennsylvania Regional Planning Commission that dropped Regional out of its name with the rest of the Board of Directors clearly from the pre birthing of PAT now PRT planned from the start in 1950's planned to attack railroads, trolley lines and more as all they have done from the start is cut, cut and cut more and more over the years. The mere fact that Pennsylvania Canals Western Division from Plane 1 of the Allegheny Portage RR had the Western PA RR build in the Western Division of PA Canal out through Blairsville, Saltsburg, Torrance crossing the Allegheny River at Schenley down the Allegheny River to Allegheny City Terminus at PNC Park today with crossing the Pittsburgh Fort Wayne & Chicago Trestle to AMTRAK/Greyhound building those areas first. Then from Bolivar PA Westmoreland/Indiana County line pushing the 2nd line down through Derry Yard wye in Latrobe picking up Judge Mellons Ligonier Valley RR for PRR to push through Greensburg to Pittsburgh clearly has the potiential to rebuild passenger trains and end Westmoreland Transit overlapping to/from Pittsburgh.
We have the Pennsylvanian but how are we to keep it and the to be return train when fixed transit here in SPC Region is preventing existing and would be riders from accessing fixed transit statewide and preventing us from accessing Pennsylvanian, Capitol Limited and would be return train from New York NY areas
Overall there’s some nice thoughts in here yet a lot overlooked.
The reality is between age,
Maintenance issues,
Staffing, and gov interference in some of the worst ways
Light Rail, has about reached its limit in the PGH region,
If you’re going to go whole hog and suggest more tunnels,
many spurs, Oakland to which PAAC & others basically said no,
multiple types of rail or multiple modes
Then response would be
I’d rather we did 1 and multiple expansions at once that mode
being to build a replica Metro
Of DC with maybe some inspiration from other places which PGH Should’ve done from the start.
Having most of the system underground would solve many of infrastructure and property impact issues, doing heavy metro rail or a heavy-light hybrid reminiscent of CLE Rapid would alleviate some maintenance issues and the inability to replace aged out stuff ( a big issue we are facing now )
If we’re gonna go big anyway I could see a DC or NYC Style
Metro covering some parts of the existing light rail but branching out in the following ways
• A North Hills RT 65 Ohio Valley
Sewickley Spur/Line
• A North Hills RT 19
McCandless, Cranberry, Possibly
New Castle/Zelionople spur
• An Allegheny Valley RT 28
Fox Chapel Harmar New Ken spur
• A West End, Crafton
Kennedy , Robinson , Airport
Spur maybe also extended to
the various Amazon sites
out that way and link to
Weirton WV & Steubenville Ohio
A small little known transit agency
Known as SVRTA does a
Robinson-Weirton-Steubenville route but with limited services and is in life support
Giving them an option and links or folding them into a potential PRT Merger as PAAC adds “regional” to its moniker and would be expanding under such rail extension could work for all parties
• An East End
Wilkinsburg, Edgewood
Monroeville CCAC Line
and
• A East End Wilkinsburg
Edgewood, Braddock
Versailles, McKeesport line
New Castle operates Route 71 from the Transit Center that sits on the New Castle, Franklin & Clarion RR right of way as Route 71 follows the old A&A Railroad along U.S. 422 then down U.S. 18 left PA 488 at Portersville Exit to stop at Zelienople PNR then down I 79 to I 279 to I 579 to AMTRAK as Butler uses PA 356 to PA 68W to Zelienople PNR down to Pittsburgh as both New Castle and Butler thanks to mistake 7 Fields and Adams Township made years after Grove City Coach Lines folded had one of the past shareholders for Grove City Coach Lines and PHB&NC Rwy and Beaver Falls had that retired owner of New Castle Transit try to run a route from NC to Ellwood PA out on the past route for defunct Grove City Coach Lines. Leaving the man only option to push trips on Route 71 to Pittsburgh to due its current routing where both New Castle and Butler are forced by 7 Fields and Adams Township to not service PA 68 east of PA 528 eliminating U.S. 19 to West View Plaza as Butler and New Castle refuse to operate local on major growing areas since I was a boy.
I woudn't mind a new "Harmony Line"
The spur to the train station would actually be useful if Amtrak service in Pittsburgh didn't suck.
@@axmajpayne one day, one day…
Please do Atlanta!
Century III has been gone since well before this video was made.
Though transit along PA51 would be helpful. A park-and-ride at the 51 end of the PA43 toll road would make that road actually useful. For now, its is almost always empty. And the extension is doubly-useless since it goes to a place nobody wants to go.
Population would increase
How about connecting both incline railroads to other Train lines.
@@mikehaas1393 Monongahela already connects at Station Square, Duquesne might just have to make do with connections to West Busway buses
The S-Bahn style system could benefit if the services functioned like a cross rail in the style of the Paris RER system
@@vasquen I’m not sure any of the services would have nearly enough demand to run as frequently as the RER, but it’s a great model nonetheless
@@thehouseoftransit2719 I merely meant the through running making the services a one hop ride across the region. The frequency would be whatever best fits
@@vasquen Ah for sure, S Bahns function the same way :)
Allegheny County Little Dark age, but also just the entire rust belt
Facts, most small towns saw transformations like those
Hello! A resident of Pittsburgh here! I'd love to pick your brain to help reactivating rail in PGH with an agency that has succumbed to the falsity that is austerity...
@@H3lue much as I think the agency could be pushing harder, it’s largely the fault of a state legislature that’s all too eager to cut transit funding
@@thehouseoftransit2719
"Make no little plans. They have no magic to stir men's blood" -Daniel Burnham
The thing I know about state politics in relation to transit is that it's always an uphill battle. However, PRT's uninspiring leadership certainly does not help to move the needle.
Southwestern PA deserves better.
I do think, with the Innamorato administration, that there will be new channels to create more inspiring visions and leadership. Would love to talk about this more. How do I get in touch?
What we need to do is replace busways with Regional Railroad passenger trains with AMTRAK and fix what Board destroyed.
Grandiose ideas, to be sure, but the Silver Line/Library branch of the T STILL is an inconsistent mass transit service that needs and deserves the upgrading to similar standards long enjoyed by Red Line/ Blue Line commuters.
We Silver Line commuters are still patiently waiting…. ☹️ 🚞 🇺🇸
We have to hope the Port Authority will pour the necessary investment into bringing the branch up to modern standards rather than abandoning it as they have suggested doing
@@thehouseoftransit2719 We cannot allow such a blunder to occur. Such a foolhardy decision would be a major setback to the South Hills commuters by adding MANY vehicles to already congested traffic, as well as a NATIONAL EMBARRASSMENT of SHRINKING light rail rather than EXPANSION of light rail, which is occurring around the nation. 🚞
1:01 there are many contributors to the “slowness” of the existing
Light Rail ( T ) is attributable to many factors
The largest being the age of the rail cars themselves, the overkill technology on the rail cars,
The perpetual state of repair issues on most of the line and governments hands in that,
among others
Two-car trains into the suburbs. Why are we comparing it to Germany when you’re just trying to create SEPTA West?
In fairness SEPTA was also inspired by Germany, they just didn’t follow through
@@thehouseoftransit2719 Please elaborate...
@@chrispontani7637 I’m not sure if you’re familiar with S Bahn systems but essentially they involve a core trunk with lots of capacity and frequent service and a lot of through running branches which usually run at 10 or 20 minute intervals. SEPTA’s Center City tunnel for Regional Rail was designed to allow for the exact same style of service, but SEPTA never ran enough trains or lowered fares to really complete the concept. Fortunately they are finally looking at infrastructure and service improvements that will make SEPTA Regional Rail much more like a true S Bahn system.
Please do this for Philadelphia
Gladly 😁
While I do think lightrails are incredible, I was reading about how they use the busways for emergency vehicle transport so idk which would be more practical having a bus way or light rail system. I think initial cost for busways are cheaper, but light rail is cheaper in the long run.
I did notice a passing ambulance or two on the East Busway, so it’s a fair point. It would be possible to continue to allow use of the right of way for emergency vehicles, and since stations are extra wide those vehicles could pass trains when they stop. Alternatively, 376 could start to take more of a role as the express thoroughfare.
The costs often stem from how much ridership you’re getting-busways often make sense on corridors where the demand isn’t terribly high. There’s enough demand in the east of the region that I think it’s safe to say the corridor warrants rail.
So you want Pittsburgh to be Karlsruhe. I'll only go along with this if we get Spaghettieis too
Damn, this just makes me sad and depressed
It’s simply not going to work, with four cars and a truck in everyone’s driveway we are beyond any kind of transit in the private sector…
Rail link to the Airport.
Ehh, it’s not really a priority IMO since the airport’s so far out and the West Busway makes the airport express bus pretty speedy
@@thehouseoftransit2719Yep. Just extend the busway there and increase the frequency.
I found some good ideas from this UA-camr: www.youtube.com/@pittsburghtransitideas
I like the night bus and the through city routes ideas.
@@paulfoster6406 nice, we’ll have to take a look!
Please improve the DC metro(the silver expansion wasn’t enough)
Another DC video is on its way… eventually ;)
@@thehouseoftransit2719 yay
The fact that it’s a straight shot from the airport to downtown with Moon, Robinson, Carnegie and Greentree on the way but we don’t have a train that connects it is an embarrassment.
Don't be embarrassed BJ. When USAir pulled the PIT hub, most of the employees at the airport went too. There is just not enough density to justify train service.
We can go from Grantsville MD's Piolet Truck stop with Bay Runner West but FACT Bus can't make connections to Piolet and FACT says he can't loop buses at Fallingwater do to parking lot issues as Ohiopyle is needing bus route as Somerset County has no means to connect to Cambria City/Rural Divisions and no service in Somerset County to connect to FACT as Huntingdon, Bedford & Fulton County is so badly underfunded which prevents Rich Farr CEO of Rabbits York County's home Base and his take over of Capitol District routes that once was Capitol Area Transit can't make connections beyond Shippensburg, Chamberburg, Duncannon PA area do to our PA Democrats and PRR Management created a hellish war war with Vanderbilt's and the Alphabet lines so long ago. Yes these points may not seem like sense to you but trust me these are well hidden facts that's helping to keep our 8 State areas from being properly connected as Thaddeous Steven's worked with Ahl's brothers and the Vanderbilts that were attacking our worthless Democratic Party and PRR Management and more as they were trying to better Passenger Trains, Fright Trains, and would be future Motor Coach and fixed transit lines down in time as because of the mistakes made we here in PA are screwed into our 8 state area.
The Allentown Route wasn’t useless. It was an important connection for the south hilltop neighborhoods. It had low ridership because it was a pretty poor area, and there were affordability issues. Though the neighborhood has been getting more attention lately, and they’re considering bringing it back in some capacity. All the infrastructure is still maintained, and used whenever the Mt. Washington tunnel is underling maintenance, so it’s really just a matter of paying drivers to go through there.
It would be best for Rich Farr to take over SPC Systems as he would be far better to operate New Castle, Butler, Armstrong, IndiGo, PRT, Washington Rides Freedom Transit out of Washington County PA with Fayette Area Coordinated Transportation & Westmoreland as a whole. As Rich is building as all current PRT Region is doing is making things deeply worse. Kathleen is trying but she is hand tied with the Board of Directors and Unions keep our Region from growing and with far more mistakes of cutting routes from 1950's is harming us here in SW,NW,NC and SC PA as a whole.
Fyi century 3 mall is shut down
True, but there is some nearby retail that is still open and lots of space for redevelopment
@thehouseoftransit2719 Redevelopment will take 30 to 50 years in that area. Heck, the mill that was torn down in Braddock still isn't redeveloped. Talking about Carie Furnace location.
@@SimonBarsinister yea sometimes they would have the road that leads to it would be open
@@SimonBarsinisterCarrie Furnace redevelopment is just getting started. And that would be Swissvale/Rankin, not Braddock.
Pennsylvania Democrats and Pennsylvania Railroad Management were negligent piggish with deeper newer facts that I've learned about that made things worse as PAT now PRT Board of Directors made things deeply worse over the years. Penn DOT cutting funds in 1990s that folded Grove City Coach Lines, as Greyhound, Lincoln Coach did all they could to fully isolate fixed transit systems of EMTA Erie, Mercer, Crawford-Venango Bus in Venango County PA, New Castle, Butler, Armstong Towne & Country, IndiGo in Indiana County PA as Rabbit Transit is operating IndiGO's Paratransit. 7 County Area Transit Authority of Central PA, Warren/Forest County Medical trips only for Pittsburgh and Erie. Fully disconnected State College is broken to ATA of Central PA, AMTRAN Altoona, WCTA, Somerset, Westmoreland and much more.
omg you listen to mgmt???
Sure do
as a pittsburgher i love this plan but i think the 1 thing that this is missing is a rail connection between downtown and the airport
Thanks for the feedback! PIT is really far from central Pittsburgh, so a light rail line would be pretty complicated compared to extending the West Busway there, which provides comparable speed and comfort at a much lower cost
thats true but it would be great publicity and very good media for prt@@thehouseoftransit2719
Pittsburgh is a dying city that can’t even balance the budget. And please don’t say federal monies. Fed money is better spent in cities that have super growth.. Austin, Charlotte, etc. No one wants to move to Pitt why spend money on it.
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