I disagree with your take on the family board. I much prefer the advanced side, but the family side allowed me to play with my 6 and 5 year old kids and it's really friendly. You make donations and get points for everything. It was still competitive but it was much more forgiving and everyone loved decorating their own trees. This is a game that should be played with all the FAMILY at Christmas, not just the three board game enthusiasts in between games of Kanban.
Completely agree! And being a Christmas game it is going to be played with family members who are turned away but that busy player board and extra tokens. It doesn’t feel like much for us but it would for so many of my family members who just wouldn’t want to try even if I can teach the rules. It was a hit for us on both sides. But yeah, I only wanna play advance myself.
Two rule books is confusing but the advanced game can be played by families, including my 6 year old? Please. I think Tom needs to spend time with non gamer families. We played the Family game twice over Christmas but there was no way the small kids would have have played the advanced side.
Loved the family mode! I run a tabletop program for kids ages 8-14 at the library I work for, where I introduce games/mechanics they might not usually play. We've only been providing the program since August of 2023, and the program itself is only an hour an a half long, so this was their introduction to worker placement. They liked it enough that they asked to borrow it so they could play it again outside of the program!
I have been trying to get my library to start a board game program for 3 years. I have even offered to help run it, donate games, and gave the lady in charge of deciding some information on other libraries that run board game programs and some UA-cam channels that discuss setting up a library program, etc. They just won’t do it which is unfortunate because they have other adjacent programs like a big D&D club, they do escape rooms, they lend out activity boxes and all sorts of other non-book type materials. No luck, I get the same answer every time “nice idea, we will think about it”. Oh well…I am moving soon, but I really wish our otherwise lovely library would consider a board game program.
@@searose6192 oh, wow! Like they don’t have board games available at all?? Humm… It might be something to do with how their particular system has to inventory board games… we might be able to get away with more at our location because we’re a pretty small library system. We have board games in the adult, teen, and children’s area available for passive play, a twice a week chess club, D&D for teens run by three (soon to be four!) teen DMs, a board game night program for family once a month, tabletop for tweens twice a month, and even a weekly prek games program! I wonder what’s holding them back? Maybe they’ve tried it in the past with little to no success? Either way, I hope the library in the area you’re moving to has the programming options you’re looking for!!!
I really appreciate the family side. I brought this to Christmas and got my parents to play and they enjoyed it. It being about Christmas made them want to play at Christmas and it was easy for them to understand without being gamers. The family side also has a really nice flow we’re it’s a good game to just go through the motions having fun without having to really think. Same feelings as Tokaido. I will say with some of my family we did play both sides. And the consensus of the non gamers was they liked the family side better. They said the other side for them was just a too thinky. They understood it but it wasn’t as fun. Some also felt it was more cutthroat and they felt like they were having a harder time building the toys like they wanted to. I personally like the hard side better but I enjoyed both sides. And will definitely bring this to Christmas again but based on the feed back I think it’s likely I will play the family side more because that’s what they will want.
I think the family mode is great. It would have been a bit better to have presented the advanced game as the "default" game, and presented the family game as a modified version for younger folks in an appendix or something.
Elf Creek replaced the duplicate Silver elf meeples, theres a BGG forum about it. I agree with Camilla the "family version" is for kids and non-gaming families and glad its in there for those to enjoy; but admittedly i really dont want to play that version lol My wife wants our 7yr to play that version, but shes played Azul, and Creature comforts, so i dont think there is too much of a stretch for the "advanced" version to be played instead
Tom, I wonder if you miss the plastic substitution for less points mechanism that the original had. I hope they bring that back in an expansion. And, yes, the designer said on a BGG thread that the rights to put Rudolph the Red-nose Reindeerin was very expensive to put in. Which is why we got Randolph the Green-nose Reindeer in the game’s promo cards!
I really appreciated the family mode because it let us bring in a family member who couldn't have handled advanced mode, and she loved it. I'm very happy to have another game to play wit her. When she didn't play, we enjoyed the advanced mode. Got at least 6 plays or more in around Christmas. It's very thematic, very pretty & fun for us.
I think the family mode is great for young kids. My 6 year was able to play with almost no help from me and I don't think she would have been able to handle the advanced.
That was our experience too. We played both modes with our 6 and 8 year old, but the family mode (which we started with) was a more successful experience. And then we still had a good game in the advanced mode for the adults when the kids went to sleep. Agree that the theme elevates it.
Great to hear! This has been on my wishlist and mainly to play with my kids. How this game can work well for both kids and gamers makes me want it even more.
I also really enjoyed the family side. We played with 4 players: 2 were seasoned Euro enjoyers, and 2 were newer to the hobby. We all enjoyed it, and I had enough strategy to keep us Euro fans engaged. Haven't tried the advanced side yet, but I'm sure I'd enjoy both with the right group.
I love that there are two rule books! As a solo gamer, I am always silently hoping for a second rule book just for solo rules. But in this case it would be super annoying to decide that you want to play and learn the more advanced game and still have to go through that rules for the basic game just to turn around and relearn what you're supposed to do for the advanced game.
I think you’ve become a bit jaded by playing as many games as you play. I have seen a lot of board game reviewers dismissing lighter games because it doesn’t meet their standard of complexity to enjoy. To say that the family version shouldn’t exist is dismissive of people that really struggle with rule sets that are just slightly complex. My kids and mother in law were able to grasp the family variant and enjoyed it a lot. I do plan on trying the more advanced mode soon, but I appreciate the simpler game version as a launching pad to teach in no time at all. I would have preferred the more advanced mode, but if the family mode allowed my family to enjoy and understand it, I’m grateful it was included.
Thank you for your thoughts. I hope my tone didn’t come across too harsh. I just see the value in family variants as a way to get a game tabled easier. Camilla saying she “hates” the family variant is representative of what I was referring to with the “jaded” comment I made. I get that you all prefer heavier games, but thankfully your final scores reflect a positive perspective of the overall game. It’s a struggle if you don’t have a group of gamers to regularly play with. I prefer medium weight games, but love board gaming with my family so I will gladly play lighter games to have the experience with my family who struggle with anything that’s too rules heavy or complex.
@@lonniestewart8428 Eh? Did you watch the same video? 6:10 She defends the utility of the family side. Be aware of the mental trap of "If they think differently, there must be something wrong with them."
@@Raphaelus13 Did I say there was something wrong with them? I heard Camilla give an argument for the family variant and then state “she hated it”. That’s her right to say but those words are stronger than anything I stated. I thanked them for their views and said that I hoped what I wrote didn’t have as harsh of a tone as it may have sounded like. If anything, I feel like you’re the one misinterpreting what I said.
@@Raphaelus13 Perhaps jaded is too harsh, but it’s clear that they are all gamers that play so many games that they don’t value simpler games anymore. I’ve watched numerous videos from them and appreciate their views and perspectives, but there have been numerous games that have been criticized for being too simple for them. I don’t think it’s inaccurate to say they aren’t going to sing praises for games below their desired gaming complexity, or at least it would be less common. Anyways, I apologize if I came across too harsh by using the word jaded. Have a nice day.
I play all sorts of games even Lacerdas games. So I went right for the normal rules. But didn't find it too fun and was going to sell it. But then tried the family side and it was so much more fun and keeping it. But will never play anything but the family side.
6:33 Yes…good point. Could they learn it? Yes, but would it be fun? It is a Christmas themed game, people will want to play it at Christmastime with non-gamer family.
I'm 52 and I have a learning disability. I have a hard time catching on to things. So i appreciate the easier side. It seems like Tom never takes that into account. Thats also why i appreciate mass market games, their easier for people like me who wants to be a gamer.
I’ve watched 3 plays of this game, 2 being advanced at 2p, the other game was 3p and on the family side. I would actually do a blend of the game. So on the advanced side you spend the equivalent of two full days just taking the coal action (why 3 more days are added). That isn’t fun. Also the tree, putting the lights on, not that great of an action. I know it can get 1p, get you points, get the resource you need, add towards cheer for Santa, but it’s a boring action. Lastly, the upgrades to the coal cart, elves, blankets and one other thing, those are all so easily obtained what’s the point when everyone scores all the same points. So my idea would be to play on the family side because the supplies overhaul area where you can go and collect globs of the extra stuff is a fun action. Decorating your own Christmas tree is fun. I think the toy selection is just fine. I would still play the extra 3 days of the advanced board because why not if it’s fun. Definitely use the reindeer from the advanced game because those powers are great. Might be missing one other thing but that’s definitely how I would do it.
Velvet is probably based off of a character in Them’s Fightin’ Herds, which was originally was based on My Little Pony. The creator of the show was partially involved in the development of the video game.
I disagree with your take on the family board. I much prefer the advanced side, but the family side allowed me to play with my 6 and 5 year old kids and it's really friendly. You make donations and get points for everything. It was still competitive but it was much more forgiving and everyone loved decorating their own trees. This is a game that should be played with all the FAMILY at Christmas, not just the three board game enthusiasts in between games of Kanban.
Completely agree! And being a Christmas game it is going to be played with family members who are turned away but that busy player board and extra tokens. It doesn’t feel like much for us but it would for so many of my family members who just wouldn’t want to try even if I can teach the rules. It was a hit for us on both sides. But yeah, I only wanna play advance myself.
Two rule books is confusing but the advanced game can be played by families, including my 6 year old? Please. I think Tom needs to spend time with non gamer families. We played the Family game twice over Christmas but there was no way the small kids would have have played the advanced side.
Loved the family mode!
I run a tabletop program for kids ages 8-14 at the library I work for, where I introduce games/mechanics they might not usually play. We've only been providing the program since August of 2023, and the program itself is only an hour an a half long, so this was their introduction to worker placement. They liked it enough that they asked to borrow it so they could play it again outside of the program!
I have been trying to get my library to start a board game program for 3 years. I have even offered to help run it, donate games, and gave the lady in charge of deciding some information on other libraries that run board game programs and some UA-cam channels that discuss setting up a library program, etc. They just won’t do it which is unfortunate because they have other adjacent programs like a big D&D club, they do escape rooms, they lend out activity boxes and all sorts of other non-book type materials. No luck, I get the same answer every time “nice idea, we will think about it”. Oh well…I am moving soon, but I really wish our otherwise lovely library would consider a board game program.
@@searose6192 oh, wow!
Like they don’t have board games available at all?? Humm… It might be something to do with how their particular system has to inventory board games… we might be able to get away with more at our location because we’re a pretty small library system.
We have board games in the adult, teen, and children’s area available for passive play, a twice a week chess club, D&D for teens run by three (soon to be four!) teen DMs, a board game night program for family once a month, tabletop for tweens twice a month, and even a weekly prek games program!
I wonder what’s holding them back? Maybe they’ve tried it in the past with little to no success?
Either way, I hope the library in the area you’re moving to has the programming options you’re looking for!!!
I really appreciate the family side. I brought this to Christmas and got my parents to play and they enjoyed it. It being about Christmas made them want to play at Christmas and it was easy for them to understand without being gamers. The family side also has a really nice flow we’re it’s a good game to just go through the motions having fun without having to really think. Same feelings as Tokaido. I will say with some of my family we did play both sides. And the consensus of the non gamers was they liked the family side better. They said the other side for them was just a too thinky. They understood it but it wasn’t as fun. Some also felt it was more cutthroat and they felt like they were having a harder time building the toys like they wanted to. I personally like the hard side better but I enjoyed both sides. And will definitely bring this to Christmas again but based on the feed back I think it’s likely I will play the family side more because that’s what they will want.
I think the family mode is great. It would have been a bit better to have presented the advanced game as the "default" game, and presented the family game as a modified version for younger folks in an appendix or something.
This was an overall fantastic lighter worker placement game that I can highly recommend! Haven't tried the family side.
Elf Creek replaced the duplicate Silver elf meeples, theres a BGG forum about it. I agree with Camilla the "family version" is for kids and non-gaming families and glad its in there for those to enjoy; but admittedly i really dont want to play that version lol My wife wants our 7yr to play that version, but shes played Azul, and Creature comforts, so i dont think there is too much of a stretch for the "advanced" version to be played instead
Tom, I wonder if you miss the plastic substitution for less points mechanism that the original had. I hope they bring that back in an expansion. And, yes, the designer said on a BGG thread that the rights to put Rudolph the Red-nose Reindeerin was very expensive to put in. Which is why we got Randolph the Green-nose Reindeer in the game’s promo cards!
My 7 year old daughter loves the easier side. I love both sides of the game though
2:52 Indeed. That red-nosed one has a licensing fee. 🦌
We did get a kick out of the Randolph the Green Nosed Reindeer promo.
I really appreciated the family mode because it let us bring in a family member who couldn't have handled advanced mode, and she loved it. I'm very happy to have another game to play wit her. When she didn't play, we enjoyed the advanced mode. Got at least 6 plays or more in around Christmas. It's very thematic, very pretty & fun for us.
I think the family mode is great for young kids. My 6 year was able to play with almost no help from me and I don't think she would have been able to handle the advanced.
That was our experience too. We played both modes with our 6 and 8 year old, but the family mode (which we started with) was a more successful experience.
And then we still had a good game in the advanced mode for the adults when the kids went to sleep.
Agree that the theme elevates it.
Great to hear! This has been on my wishlist and mainly to play with my kids. How this game can work well for both kids and gamers makes me want it even more.
I also really enjoyed the family side. We played with 4 players: 2 were seasoned Euro enjoyers, and 2 were newer to the hobby. We all enjoyed it, and I had enough strategy to keep us Euro fans engaged. Haven't tried the advanced side yet, but I'm sure I'd enjoy both with the right group.
I love that there are two rule books! As a solo gamer, I am always silently hoping for a second rule book just for solo rules. But in this case it would be super annoying to decide that you want to play and learn the more advanced game and still have to go through that rules for the basic game just to turn around and relearn what you're supposed to do for the advanced game.
I'm glad you still covered this one. I like the theme and production, and can imagine my self making a special Christmas game night with it.
The basic rules are probably so you can play a Christmas game with elementary school age children.
I think you’ve become a bit jaded by playing as many games as you play. I have seen a lot of board game reviewers dismissing lighter games because it doesn’t meet their standard of complexity to enjoy. To say that the family version shouldn’t exist is dismissive of people that really struggle with rule sets that are just slightly complex.
My kids and mother in law were able to grasp the family variant and enjoyed it a lot. I do plan on trying the more advanced mode soon, but I appreciate the simpler game version as a launching pad to teach in no time at all.
I would have preferred the more advanced mode, but if the family mode allowed my family to enjoy and understand it, I’m grateful it was included.
Thank you for your thoughts. I hope my tone didn’t come across too harsh. I just see the value in family variants as a way to get a game tabled easier.
Camilla saying she “hates” the family variant is representative of what I was referring to with the “jaded” comment I made. I get that you all prefer heavier games, but thankfully your final scores reflect a positive perspective of the overall game.
It’s a struggle if you don’t have a group of gamers to regularly play with. I prefer medium weight games, but love board gaming with my family so I will gladly play lighter games to have the experience with my family who struggle with anything that’s too rules heavy or complex.
@@lonniestewart8428 Eh? Did you watch the same video? 6:10 She defends the utility of the family side.
Be aware of the mental trap of "If they think differently, there must be something wrong with them."
@@Raphaelus13 Did I say there was something wrong with them? I heard Camilla give an argument for the family variant and then state “she hated it”. That’s her right to say but those words are stronger than anything I stated.
I thanked them for their views and said that I hoped what I wrote didn’t have as harsh of a tone as it may have sounded like. If anything, I feel like you’re the one misinterpreting what I said.
@@lonniestewart8428 Yes, "jaded".
If they weren't X (jaded) the would think like me. Nothing else or harsher.
@@Raphaelus13 Perhaps jaded is too harsh, but it’s clear that they are all gamers that play so many games that they don’t value simpler games anymore. I’ve watched numerous videos from them and appreciate their views and perspectives, but there have been numerous games that have been criticized for being too simple for them.
I don’t think it’s inaccurate to say they aren’t going to sing praises for games below their desired gaming complexity, or at least it would be less common.
Anyways, I apologize if I came across too harsh by using the word jaded. Have a nice day.
Really enjoyed this game. Played advanced version with my gamer friends and the easier version with my kids.
I play all sorts of games even Lacerdas games. So I went right for the normal rules. But didn't find it too fun and was going to sell it. But then tried the family side and it was so much more fun and keeping it. But will never play anything but the family side.
Thoughts on how this plays with kids? Tom did you try this with your family?
You can read from the other comments here that the standard mode (family mode) is built with children in mind and has gone over very well with kids.
I'm still interested!!
The Christmas tree being cut in half is just an odd choice. You can’t tell me they couldn’t find a way to have a full tree with a star on top.🎄
6:33 Yes…good point. Could they learn it? Yes, but would it be fun?
It is a Christmas themed game, people will want to play it at Christmastime with non-gamer family.
I'm 52 and I have a learning disability. I have a hard time catching on to things. So i appreciate the easier side. It seems like Tom never takes that into account. Thats also why i appreciate mass market games, their easier for people like me who wants to be a gamer.
I’ve watched 3 plays of this game, 2 being advanced at 2p, the other game was 3p and on the family side. I would actually do a blend of the game. So on the advanced side you spend the equivalent of two full days just taking the coal action (why 3 more days are added). That isn’t fun. Also the tree, putting the lights on, not that great of an action. I know it can get 1p, get you points, get the resource you need, add towards cheer for Santa, but it’s a boring action. Lastly, the upgrades to the coal cart, elves, blankets and one other thing, those are all so easily obtained what’s the point when everyone scores all the same points.
So my idea would be to play on the family side because the supplies overhaul area where you can go and collect globs of the extra stuff is a fun action. Decorating your own Christmas tree is fun. I think the toy selection is just fine. I would still play the extra 3 days of the advanced board because why not if it’s fun. Definitely use the reindeer from the advanced game because those powers are great. Might be missing one other thing but that’s definitely how I would do it.
Oo in November i hope you do a top 10 Christmas themed games; it would be nice to find something simple to play with the family
Velvet is probably based off of a character in Them’s Fightin’ Herds, which was originally was based on My Little Pony. The creator of the show was partially involved in the development of the video game.
Velvet is a reindeer in another of Elf Creek's games - Merchants of the Dark Road
@@KeithFerguson71 yeah that makes more sense.
lol - I actually prefer the artwork of the original and miss how plastic functioned.