Politically Incorrect with Camille Paglia
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- Back on his old show (and this was on Comedy Central, before the show even moved to ABC), Bill Maher had a two-part episode where he abandoned his usual roundtable discussion to have a one-on-one discussion with feminist icon Camille Paglia. Great stuff here.
This was filmed in 1995. For those that are wondering
She has a very blue collar background and you can see it in her liberal politics. She's a liberal, but she's certainly not an elitist and it's a refreshing change. She is also fearless and doesn't seem to give a shit about conforming to convention.
@Meister Incognito But you're not threatened by her, right?
Cobalt
Yeah, Paglia is an advocate for the working class - going so far as to say that child porn/child prostitution should be legalized in their book Sexual Personae, but being the class aware person that they are - they made sure to make it clear that they’re opposed to child labor; meaning they only believe child sex work should be decriminalized so long as the children aren’t being paid.
If y’all don’t want to read Camille’s books, I suggest at least reading their interview titled “The Purity of Allen Ginsburg’s Boy Love” published by Salon. Paglia is a infamous advocate for pedophilia and adult/child sex.
I’m going to take a wild guess that the vast majority of the people praising Paglia in the comments of this video haven’t actually read anything from them.
And for any people on here that believe Camille gives a “refreshing” alternative to contemporary identity politics - Paglia is a radical gender abolitionist that believes both sexual orientation and gender are a choice, and that choosing both heterosexuality and a cisbinary view of gender is backwards. Paglia chooses to identify as transmasculine as well as non-binary because they believe in the abolition of femininity.
The vast majority of heterosexual men would be gravely disappointed if they weren’t cherry-picking Paglia’s rhetoric; Camille is an advocate for radical homocentric chauvinism first and foremost. It’s just something that isn’t instantly apparent from their more mainstream interviews, especially because gay chauvinism is fairly alien to most straight men - let alone someone on the radical fringes like Paglia. When they talk about the Greeks and Spartans, this is something they take very seriously and you might not know what all that entails if you aren’t familiar with the historical sexual norms of those cultures or Camille’s views on them. This is someone at a direct opposition to heterosexuality, traditional western family units, and age of consent laws.
Foucault was also an advocate for radical free speech, pedophila, rape, and homoerotic chauvinism but I don’t see him having the same fan base as Paglia because he happens to be very popular among leftist elites and Universities. As much as Paglia claims to hate post-structuralism, they’re as much influenced by it as feminists like Judith Butler. If Paglia didn’t claim to be a feminist, I don’t believe so many “anti-feminists” would like them - they only get points with the mainstream for being an outlier among other feminists.
There are plenty of better working-class liberals to get behind if you genuinely care about class politics. Camille is someone with very little interest in class politics, and only uses their working-class background as a way to appeal to the mainstream. If you agree with their viewpoints on the gender wars, and the negative cultural impact imposed by elitist academics - I’d suggest someone like Christopher Lasch, he’s not socially liberal but he is a leftist.
Camille is likely one of the most radical feminists that has ever achieved prominence - perhaps the direct Inverse of Andrea Dworkin, but that doesn’t mean that they’re right. You’d be better off simping for MRAs.
This is all out in the open, all you have to do is read Paglia’s books and essays - it’s not a conspiracy. You’d be surprised how many well-respected academics have wildly radical and toxic views. If her opposition consisted of anyone aside from other feminists angry over arbitrary disagreements, maybe people would listen.
@@baobypixar5841 "Paglia is a radical gender abolitionist that believes both sexual orientation and gender are a choice, and that choosing both heterosexuality and a cisbinary view of gender is backwards."
This seems like a misreading to me. From what I've read of Sexual Personae - as I have not yet finished it - Paglia makes a distinction between behavior, and thought and artistic expression on the other hand. Gender and sex are masks only insofar as they are represented in literature and poetry, used by the author or artist.
"Androgyny, which some feminists promote as a pacifist blueprint for sexual utopia, belongs to the
contemplative rather than active life. It is the ancient prerogative of priests, shamans, and artists."
What she's against is assuming that prudish heteronormativity is an adequate lens through which to view the history of art and culture. The claim that she is "against" traditional family units also seems unsubstantiated to me, but I'm happy to be proven wrong.
Hmm
This is better than his current show.
by a thousand miles
Obviously his current show earns him more, otherwise wouldn't have changed it up.
He was fired…
I weep that the modern day feminist has lost the objectivity that Camille Paglia had.
you mean they have stopped supporting child p0rn legalization and organizations like NAMBLA like her?
Not only the objectivity, the knowledge she has that sadly, our college students no longer have.
I love Camille! I like her ideas but she's also so honest and open! Her likability is off the charts!
But I think that's part of her charm!
No, many people can't stand her. It's not that she just throws out noxious talking points, nor that she acts as if she's the arbiter of right and wrong. She has a Manichean view of the world, and the world is not black and white.
She speaks too fast to make it hard for people to ponder her views. Her thought organization is nearly incoherent, and her method is simply to intimidate people into thinking they can't keep up because she's brilliant.
A good communicator interested in explaining her thoughts and influencing people honestly would strive to be understood.
Her whole act is smoke and mirrors. She takes the views of a few women and generalizes about all women just to bash us.
She's a tiresome fraud.
@ctwriter lol. right, sorry love, 3rd & 4th wave of feminism is pure and absolute fail. they're whiney bee0tches full of discontent. She isn't and she's calling out these posers as she should.
B/c 3rd wave has never taken the views fo a few and claimed to speak for all, right?
@@ctwriter 😩 oh God
Considering with whats been going on in modern 3rd wave intersectional feminism , it is simply amazing how relevant and how well this interview holds up . 20+ years old and its still relevant.
Only difference is that we're in the 4th wave now.
It's gotten even worse?!
***** Yep, I have 2 videos about 4th wave feminism on my channel.
Eh, her rape thesis could be worked on but I get the idea & I agree.
Essentially, all she bemoans is the shrinking population of well-rounded adults: responsible, educated, sensitive, toughened by experience & strong sense of morality . . . & fun. A world, really, not many adults could live in, even the many here applauding her words
Harbringe Always will be relevant. There will always be enemies of freedom lurking about.
I love that she's a fast talker, yet she quickly heeds to let someone else pop in to respond.
She is passionate but respectful. Love her.
Exactly. She's actually warm-hearted....and of course, brilliant! She is so quick to let someone pop in with and interjection. What a gal.
Young Camille Paglia was a force to be reckoned with.. DAMN! Camille and CHS are the baddest bitches on the planet.
"Angry women who get into a group and whine about men." This is what's happened to the whole generation who was born when this was recorded.
Yes.
ManInTheBigHat I concur my good sir!
and who's she? Pathetic loser without sex life, who wants other women just lay down and breed
Women always whine about men and always been even before this show were aired even before 100 years ago and which year did this show were aired
@@Wasp239 you must be a very unhappy person lol
"Wildly overblown claims about an epidemic of sexual assaults on American campuses are obscuring the true danger to young women, too often distracted by cellphones or iPods in public places: the ancient sex crime of abduction and murder. Despite hysterical propaganda about our “rape culture,” the majority of campus incidents being carelessly described as sexual assault are not felonious rape (involving force or drugs) but oafish hookup melodramas, arising from mixed signals and imprudence on both sides.
"Colleges should stick to academics and stop their infantilizing supervision of students’ dating lives, an authoritarian intrusion that borders on violation of civil liberties. Real crimes should be reported to the police, not to haphazard and ill-trained campus grievance committees.
"Too many young middleclass women, raised far from the urban streets, seem to expect adult life to be an extension of their comfortable, overprotected homes. But the world remains a wilderness. The price of women’s modern freedoms is personal responsibility for vigilance and self-defense.
"Current educational codes, tracking liberal-Left, are perpetuating illusions about sex and gender. The basic Leftist premise, descending from Marxism, is that all problems in human life stem from an unjust society and that corrections and fine-tunings of that social mechanism will eventually bring utopia. Progressives have unquestioned faith in the perfectibility of mankind." CAMILLE PAGLIA 9/28/2014
Brilliant!
Dude you wrote that whole thing. 🥇
More relevant 6 years later than ever!
And then it was just about college.
Now, the lefty kooks are after the elementary kids.
Several years ago look what happened. Parents kept sending their girls off to college, and we hear nothing about "rape culture" anymore.
Guess it was mostly a bunch of melodrama to begin with.
no wonder so many American's struggle with intelligence when there's an advert break every four minutes ;)
When television comes to your country, you will appreciate having those ads because it means none of your tax dollars pays for it.
sweiland75 ha ha ! you got me!
That's what tax dollars are for! Gimme the BBC any day over hyper commercialised US TV.
big black cock! big black cock!!
how is it moral to tax people and force them to pay for a tv channel they dont necessarily want? the free market is more effective than socialized systems, anyway
"if you advertise, you better be ready to sell."
Michael Anderson , i used to ride my red convertible to classics night and put it on display, but it was not for sale
'd
Every fucking 4 minutes a commercial break... US TV was insufferable in those days. Thank christ for HBO!
Kinda sad to see Bill before the feminists got to him.
MMODoubter Yes, I'm a fan of Real Time, but I realize Camille would never get a chance to be on his show these days. He's too busy having on Rachel Maddow, young university feminists talking the 'one in five' BS, and women who write for the Nation. It's the worst when he has a feminist on. He used to challenge them more on his old show.
He recently had Milo Yanopoulos so no reason Camille Paglia couldn't be invited on real time.
Hanna Rosin ("End of Men" author) stuck up for men more than he did when she was on the show recently. He has become such a wimp on the topic. Yes, MMODoubter, it's pathetic to watch.
yes!
Can somebody tell me when this was published? I enjoy her so much.
1995
It's incredibly annoying how he has to cut her off every five minutes for an ad-break. I'm not going to miss TV _one bit_ and this is why!
I was blown away when she walked out, I've only seen her more recent talks.
Close but even earlier: She was on a book tour for "Vamps and Tramps", published Oct. 11, 1994, so its probably late October 1994.
I remember when it first aired! I'm so old. 😂
She is so sharp. her mouth can't keep up with her brain. And she's hilarious, witty, and fiery.
Bill NEEDS to have Camille on Real Time. Nowadays, the world needs her more than ever.
"A hole of color"
Holy shit, this was around back then?
20 years ago 2 people had a conversation that resumes our current political weather
I liked Bill Maher when his humor was less condescending. This light interview with Camille is a gem from his old show.
She was and is so cool. Confident, clever, humorous.
I wish she would come back and comment on pop culture again. She's great.
A) I forgot how bad Bill Maher was
B) I can't believe he's been doing the same exact shtick on HBO for three decades.
I agree with her. Meryl Streep and Meg Ryan are vomit-inducing.
Politically Incorrect was so much better than Real Time. Don't know why he doesn't go back to more of this format (yes I realize it was mostly panel).
This is definitely the first - and likely simultaneously the last - time I have heard Grunge tarred with the label "PC", _and I was there. I was up to my knees in rice paddies..._
Paglia should at least be heard and read by both women and men. Peace!
Human respect covers it all, isms screw things up.
I'm afraid she doesn't speak too quickly: people just fail to keep up with her. It's different.
Hah, well put.
La Petite Résidence à Dinan Sometimes she doesn't speak quickly enough... you can see her waiting for her mouth to get the sentences out.
La Petite......she talks fast for a New Yorker.....and i do agree with your second point...the avg person needs a second or two to fully absorb what she says after she's done or they're just trying to shift mental gears from focusing on her talking to their own train of thought
I've had moments where my mouth was too slow for my brain and I started talking erratically to see if I could get all the ideas out. I imagine that's what Camille is like all the time. Maybe it's because she reads and thinks about things a lot...
She does though. I can follow her but she does speak fast.
She's extremely empathetic to men and very hard on woman. I could figure her psyche in 15 minutes.
"It's the 90's, we are 30 years down the line now, and we can say the time for hostility towards men in feminism is over. It's time to reconcile, find common ground."
Oh Camille, if only you could have looked ahead to 2016. Were you EVER off.
She didn't predict it, she was suggesting it. They didn't listen to her then and they sure don't now. Shame.
Camille is quite ravishing. She reminds me of a very very hot Miss Jane from The Beverly Hillbillies.
the more things change the more they stay the same
How many cups of double espresso did she drink before the show?
Elas Mobranch that's just how she speaks, her brain is too fast for her mouth.
“It’s all been satirised for your protection.” That’s a good line.
So the 2010's are the 1960's androgyny experiment in rewind, only this time they got them while they were young.
Wow. This is so timely...even 23 years later.
date rape is complicated, u cant generalize either way. Most of the time u have to be there for it to be obvious
One reason that made me an expat: the increasingly commercial nature to all things. Look at talk shows from the 60s and 70s such as Dick Cavett: far less commercial interruptions, more time for expressing thought. By the 2020s, it’s all about product placement.
2019 and I saw the complete show, it was amazing, and Im happy to see that Camille still got it!
I reckon Paglia around 40 would've been a sweet lay...
I love Camille and Bill's ok. Holy crap, did she run circles around him. He is such a lightweight, especially then, but if you watch Paglia today she's still a frenetic, erudite joy. Why the hell is she not a bigger star/brighter luminary?
She's too controversial and dissident
She is--you just can't tell here because his show was 90% commercials and product placements. It was pathetically low-budget.
she's too unorthodox
Neither has changed much, besides appearance.
I wonder the same thing because my brother who is a semifinalists road scholar from New York, Yale law school graduate, studied the classics at Columbia, did not know who she was when I asked him and I was very surprised.
11:24 was the one time in this man's career he opened his mouth and redundancy didn't fall out of it in place of a joke
Why shouldn't people focus on the prevention of rape?
Usually when a girl I'm pursuing agrees to come home with me, she has the sense to say if she doesn't want it to lead to sex. I assume she doesn't want to risk an hormonally charged situation with a stranger.
The way domination and humiliation in sex ought to be and the way it is are completely different. Many participants shun preplanning because they feel that it kills the excitement.
Maybe it's an American thing but in Europe (as far as I know) going to someone's house after a date doesn't mean consenting to sex. It just means you want to hang out some more.
neJSppaEaQHyFmDesURv CMMnAjuxeTQTdtUTQCqb yeah, it all depends on the details. I just think Camille Paglia is being an idiot to say that it ALWAYS means you want sex. She's too intelligent to make such a silly generalization.
neJSppaEaQHyFmDesURv CMMnAjuxeTQTdtUTQCqb Yes. I think the woman certainly has to be prepared for him to assume she wants sex if she goes to the apartment after a date.
As for accusations...the sexual act pretty much has to be violently enforced to constitute rape. I don't know what other sensible definition of rape there could be. If there are women who accuse men of rape for seducing them on a date then that's ridiculous.
neJSppaEaQHyFmDesURv CMMnAjuxeTQTdtUTQCqb Agreed.
And why do you need to go to his house to get to know him? Aren't there plenty of other places you could go? House = extraordinary privacy. And w.r.t. to these social norms, that's what it used to be FOR A GOOD REASON. You had clear social conventions which allowed clear communication about these things to be done effectively. You were free to feel the impulses and so on, but the social conventions gave you a way to manage them and stay in control so that when you DID go to his house, it was clear what that meant. And if you didn't, it was clear what that meant. Now, women go to his house, feel the emotion, get into bed, have sex, and then feel guilty and blame him for the mistake. Fuck you. You want to be a big girl? Act like one. Take responsibility for your actions. Sex isn't for children. It is a powerful force that is best left to the adults who are better at managing it AND if they do screw up take responsibility for it instead of lying and pretending to be a pure virgin, daddy's little girl. Grow up, you infantile twat. If you're equal, then equal expectations and equal responsibility. You can't clap with one hand.
***** Are you talking to me?
It's amazing to watch this. Maher's show must have laugh tracks now. The audience literally laughs at every word out of his mouth now. Back then some of the jokes bombed.
Camille Paglia is brilliant.
Why the hell is such common sense not promoted in mainstream,when we need it now,more than most
Camille is quite an amazing human.
Thanks for posting this up. Just learning about Paglia. Good to see more content.
Wow! This is 22 years old and it's so actual. Amazing.
My god he was and still is insipid in the face of genius.
She can take a joke.
Thank You; Hollywood is about Glamour.
I don't know if rape is a violent crime or a sex crime. I don't even understand the question. I mean, you're having sex against the other person's will. I guess that doesn't necessarily have to get violent. If they resist, it will become violent, but I think you'd call that assault and rape. I don't know what the motivation is. I'm a man. Never raped anyone. Never assaulted anyone either. Have been angry, have been upset, have been horny, have been desperate. Have never assaulted or raped anyone. So...
INCREDIBLE philosophies in those words there.
Thanks you soooo much for this. I think I was only a kid when this interview occurred and so I missed it. But, they are both idols of mine.
Even to this day, I can not think of a more dangerous thinker, and believe me, we need dangerous thinkers.
Why did he bother with those monologues? He looks like he doesn't even want to be there.
That's what happens when a show like this has "writers". I've never understood why shows like this have writers. As if Maher and Pagilia couldn't have a conversation off the cuff for 45 minutes. what a joke.
they told him to.
I love how she calls herself a provacator. I think Milo (stupid long greek Greek name) would have a million times more cred if he came out of that closet and embraced it instead of pretending to be an intellectual.
Well there's nothing quite like 90's synthesizer background music to get you excited about politics!....
How many “breaks” were there in this video? Crazy. Bill would ask one question and they would take a break
Holy fuck the ad breaks back then happened every five minutes. Insanity.
thats pretty crazy all these years later, you can be good at something, like the stones with rock music, but if you have some unorthodox opinions you gotta go. Nothing's ever changed with this cancel shit
I don't think it's about the way you dress to "avoid" rape. You shouldn't have to "avoid" rape.
Rape should be a FUNDAMENTALLY DISCOURAGED act of violence. It should not be tolerated, at all. Murder has its flip side, rape does not. Ever. For women or for men.
Instead of victim blaming the people for wearing "provocative clothing," we should be deriding those who let their primal urges run wild. We're humans, who are proud to have evolved beyond instinct.
No one is "asking" for it.
And people say feminism only recently got batshit crazy
On the other hand what a smart confident breath of fresh air..
Camille is one hot lesbian feminist. I love her.
Wow, I can't believe I'm hearing a feminist - who usually drive me crazy with the "rape is whatever/whenever/however I say it is" - who actually has a more limited definition of rape than I have. I mean as much as I hate the abuse of rape/harassment definitions, I do NOT think going to someone's apartment means you consent to sex. That's crazy.
They are good together.
I see how this show is almost the same from his HBO show, I really do enjoy Bill Maher a bunch. He makes me laugh and he makes me happy to learn about true shit. Keep it up and I'm from the future. the year is 2014. (from reading this was uploaded back in 2011. ;) LOL!
Somehow he still finds a way to mar the interview.
1995 and Bill is hilarious and Camille is brilliantly beautiful; I think I'm in love.
She talks about knowledge as being the ultimate principle, well as time moves forward, humans understand more and more our role with ourselves, each other and our biodiversity. Homosexuality/bisexuality is natural and we see expressions of this throughout time, in all forms and in other lifeforms. To limit homosexuality to some weird human western-centric concept of only the last 2,000 is folly. She says a lot of interesting things but she reminds me of a lot of demagogue artists from the 20th century in that they demand that their ideas are universal. She may have problems with her parental figures and she may have problems with sex - which may be so given that she talks about it a lot, which is telling.
Prove it.
She said that in the video, that every lesbian she's met has had some issue or another with one of their parents at least.
"Holy shit he's so young" First words that came out of my mouth.
CAMILLE-NOAM CHOMSKY TALK WOULD BE AMAZING!!!!!!!
yes please !!
Chomsky? really? no thanks.
yeah really
It'd be amazing if he was as on top of things as he was with Foucault but the guy's faculties are not up to snuff enough to deal with a motormouth like Paglia. Considering the current state of the things I think it'd be only slightly better than a debate between Jordan Peterson and Christopher Hitchens as they are now
They have ad breaks every 5 fucking minutes.
If no time to watch the whole thing, check out the half-minute beginning at 11:11
i love her but she is SO wrong about rape. If you go to someone's house after a date it doesn't mean anything. It sends a signal that you might be interested but it gives no man a green light to do anything.
I think she's leaning toward this train of thought: If I, a woman, go to a man's house on a saturday night alone, I have to be prepared that he is expecting us to have sex. I should use everything in my power to make it clear to him that this isn't a bang session. In a utopia, yes, it would be great if we were all so pure but in reality our primal brains go straight to one assumption: sex. Women must be prepared for the worst and be careful with how they present themselves.
ex: I don't wear teeny dresses when I walk alone in the city at night because I fear the sexual predator and I clothe myself to protect myself.
thanks for the response
there's a compromise from both sides, as is with most issues. Men don't be idiots, Women be responsible for messages you send. I guess.
Yes, I agree with you. Paglia seems to have a lot of strange ideas surrounding rape. I have brought a number of women back to my apartment and never felt there was a tacit agreement that there would be sex. I think some of her comments are actually dangerous and it's nice to hear someone calling her out.
But I think you have expressed this far better than she did. You explained the nuance of the issue perfectly whereas Paglia has actually said that if you get raped in a situation like that you have no leg to stand on. I think that's nuts.
Jessica LB, I must say that I tend to agree with you. You put your argument out in a clear, uncomplicated and neat order. You used simple language that even a 5 year old can understand. You also didn't over-rationalize it. I also like your use of rhetorical questions to prove your point. And rhetorical questions should also be asked in a way so that the reader or listener could answer it for themselves, but at the same time give the same answer or come to the same conclusion as everyone else
"Prodigy Poll" -- omg time warp to The Land of the Lost.
Paglia: (through her teeth) I'm a lesbian!
Paglia: (continuously talks about having sex with men and how unnatual/emotionally r*tarded "exclusive" homosexuality is and how natural bisexuality is)
The earlier days of q*eer theory, everyone.
Gacs25 She obviously meant she liked girls
Thanks for posting this. Paglia's got some interesting ideas.
I miss this Bill Maher
What was Bill's quip after the "Cindy Crawford or Richard Gere" question? (19:30)
That type of rapid fire speech can be cured with medication
Just some food for thought: "As I would not be a slave, neither would I be a master."
As much as my love for Cammy chews through, I think the format of this interview gives her too little room to unfold her ideas. Innyways, it's nice to know this very '90s /pol/ show existed.
Paglia specifically said if you go home with a man it is an automatic invite for sex and anything there after is just "misinterpretation" which is garbage.
How common dom and humiliation are in consensual sex is debatable but it in any case it is to be preplanned and standards and safe words are to be set.
Can't believe Bill had the balls to say 'nigga' in a joke back then but now he has to apologise.
@19:38 what did he say? "still or a mirror?" I can't make it out. Any help would be great.
Its all about politics for a lot of people.I am shocked that so many people in the comment section are admiring her for all the blatantly and obviously wrong things she said in the video.I have seen some of her other videos, she sounds much more sensible than she does here.I guess owing to the name of the show she just came with a conscious or subconscious intention to grandstand a little bit and sound provocative.But what surprises me more is the reactions of people.Seems like all that's required for them is just someone spouting anti feminist things and that's good enough whether it makes sense or not.Like I said its all about politics, all about simplified groups categories and labels.Are you a feminist or an anti feminist are you on the right or left? democrat or republican? pro gun control or anti gun control? etc. etc. Nuances and complexities be damned.They are too inconvenient.
I don't see why people feel the to choose whether rape is a "sexual" act OR an act of "violence" when clearly it is both. As for a desire to "control' someone else I see it as more of a rejection to control your own sexual urges. There is a sense of power people experience by rejecting self control.
LOL at "prodigy poll". Way to date it :O
I'm not sure that going into someone's house on a date is consent for sex. It's especially not consent to be raped. Weird
lol this is incredible television.
If some women ever hi me I have no problem hitting back.
I'm not agreeing with the other guy; but in regards to solving rape with better rearing, Paglia quotes Ben-Hur- "Balthasar is a good man. But until all men are like him, we must keep our swords bright!" She's telling individual women what THEY can do: Be aware of the risks they're taking (and life is about risk). I'm not sure why you think the violence inherent in most rapes would crowd out any sexual element.
I think she is spot on except the whole "you can't be completely homosexual" part. Then again, as someone who is not homosexual, I cannot really delve into that subject and say I know.
15:08 -consent to go with a guy to his apartment is consent to sex - Nope
WTF with the advertisements?
She states that traditionalism remains the backbone of society, so isn’t that a tacit concession that queerness is just a symptom of decadence that cannot exist without this heteronormative foundation?