Initially I was impressed by his thoughtfulness and experience. I’m someone who remembers his hay day with some affection. However, I am struck by how little he relates his political career to ordinary lives. He appears to be a prime example of ‘political aristocracy’ and we all need to remember that aristocrats in any field have far more in common with each other than they ever have with the rest of us. Also. Farage? Really? Leaving ECHR? Really? I had forgotten just how off target and plain wrong he could be.
I fully agree with you. To be statesmanlike is essentially to acquit oneself little more than stylistically. David Owen didn't really show himself as being of any great substance, and his lack of awareness of the effects of Brexit seems utterly risible.
What a delightfully sane and civil conversation! An island of calm communion amid madness. I miss those days when interviews were an intellectual dance and not mediocre WrestleMania.
What a great conversation and great journalist by Goodall . I do love his style of journalism. Never afraid to ask the big questions and also so so smart .... thank you Lewis.
I remember watching the then recently ex-Labour Foreign Minister, David Owen being interviewed, immediately after Argentina had invaded the Falklands. He was asked what Britain could now do, to which he replied, nothing at all. The Falklands were too far away and it was too late to take military action. He said, we should have strengthened defences before Argentina invaded. Obviously, Margaret Thatcher had a completely different viewpoint and the rest is history. He had similar success predicting the future of British politics after leaving Labour to set up the SDP.
Fascinating discussion that, first time I’ve ever heard David Owen speak at length. Personally, I’m an advocate of maintaining the HoL precisely because we need wise and experienced old hands being a check & balance on the today’s frenetic legislative circus. Ironic that Owen himself would see it abolished. Great interview Lewis 👍🏻
The likes of Boris and Truss have debased the HoL so there are now quite a few charlatans and shysters sitting amongst the wise and experienced. Current system needs to be abolished and a second monitoring and advisory house set up subject to election by members of the Commons, church and judiciary. All members need to show that they have made a significant and positive contribution to this country.
I'm inclined to agree with you about keeping the HoL, but I think it's been diluted with too many inexperienced, biased, political appointments to be able to function. I think something must be done about it. Let's see how they handle the Rwanda bill 🤷♂️
I largely agree with you, but we need to stop the politically motivated appointments to it. It should be experts and those who have given non-politically based service to the UK, not party donors and sycophants.
You probably won't be saying that as the current membership filters out and it's dominated by Tory appointees from the BJ, Truss, & Sunak era. That's the problem with unelected and unaccountable politicians.
A man who thinks about positive outcomes and what it takes to achieve such - a breath of fresh air in comparison to the current government approach and lack of experience.
Many interesting opinions advanced on international politics and relations, but anything to do with Europe and UK and the Brexit blinkers are strapped on.
Just tell me why,? When the political leaders of the EU (and that by which I mean the Commission) clearly want federalism, as does ,of course the major player in this, the Federal Republic of Germany.?@@jimwest7107
I thought that was an excellent interview. I don't agree with Lord Owen on everything but all his opinions are cogently argued. Rare these days to listen to a political figure who makes you think rather than pushes your buttons.
I can't say I agree with everything he says, but I'm happy to listen to someone with firmly held beliefs and a coherent argument behind them. The Gang of Four were a ragtag bunch at times, but I found DO especially engaging at the time. Unfortunately, as was said, they took a chance with the SDP to change British politics, but the system snapped back. If we get the chance again, we can't allow the "system" to win.
Brexit is just moving power from the EU Superstate to Westminster. You still have to VOTE in a positive government. It has exposed the Torys, particularly with their pro immigration policy. They will now be destroyed.
UK-EU trade at record high, City/Services are booming. Against the backdrop of Remainers, many who watch this channel, saying there'd be a cliff edge and job losses, house price crashes and all sorts of disaster. Really all there is to moan about are some lower level single market related import/export issues which Owen is nodding to.
He is spot on regarding the failings of the two-party system. Should Labour win the next election, they have a duty to introduce a PR electoral system. Our traditional Punch and Judy politics has been a disaster; a disaster taken to its extremes on a bigger stage at the present time in the US by the Democrats and Republicans.
The difficulty with PR is that it is not interests of the major political parties to introduce it; not even the Lib Dem’s, for the simple reason that they would probably lose out to the small parties.
All the more so because of the machinations by the Tories to game the electoral system. The equalising of constituency sizes, for example, does not make them more democratic. On the contrary, breaking down boundaries is very much about diminishing community voices. Meanwhile, PR is desperately needed to draw politics back to the centre ground and return us to some sense of consensus politics.
Also a man who has worked for a few oligarchs in his time. Sometimes, it strikes me that we grant ex. politicians with way more "gravitas" than they actually deserve...
Very interesting & civil conversation. David Owen still presents the face of a politician a world away from the populist charlatans of today. It would have been fascinating to probe his views on Brexit further. He seemed in danger of simply reiterating the standard Brexit 'lies', until he suggested that the Norway model was a valid Brexit option. I'd love to hear more of his arguments for this scenario?
He opposed EU political union, some Leavers consider Norway's deal to just leave mainly the trade side with the ability to make their own trade deals. So you stay in the market you are already in with your neighbour but can push on more globally.
@@jimwest7107 The Norway option was put forward, but the Leave extremists would not accept it, as it left the UK subject the EU SM rules, but unable to influence those rules. It seemed the least worst option, but Johnson promised the impossible, then failed to deliver.
He has more gravitas than the likes of Chukka Amuna but in reality he's not that different from the current Blairite wing. In his prime he couldn't stand the thought of a left wing Labour party so split the party and set up the SDP to ensure Thatcher won.
Very interesting but on balance l dont agree with David Owens politics. He believes in Brexit as a concept and thinks Russia can be appeased by allowing them to retain occupied territory in Ukraine. I am glad he never rose to political prominence.
Detachment, distance and time allow for some wisdom to bear fruit. A mostlyfunctional man of statesmanship. Not the fly by night toadies who flop into Westminster out of a flatulent sense of their place in the world. Hope the next election will flush out the blocked cistern of UK democracy as is. We need some real fizz in the right places. And I don't mean Trump. There's something else to go down the drain.
Britain is a world power? While I value this gentleman’s views and perception, he is clearly quite off base when it comes to Brexit, the ability for this country to (a) grow at the rate needed outside the EU to support its welfare state and defence and (b) project its power in any way shape or form militarily without significant US support/logistics. Also he advocates for a Norway style arrangement with the EU. This makes zero sense as one still must support free movement in the EEA, except one has no power to influence EU decisions. Its literally the worst of all worlds so how one could have championed Brexit and what it represents while simultaneously embracing the Norway model as the preferred outcome to the exit negotiations is beyond me
Don't be absurd. Helseltine has always been a EU supporter without equivocation . Owen to his credit ,has always been eurosceptic , very unlike his former Liberal partners.
Sorry, did you watch the same video as I did? Owen's stature lies in him realising that moving to Docklands in the early 80s was a genius move, decades before the hipsters 'discovered' the area.
So Owen's genius can be demonstrated by his enlightenment that the London Docklands were viable to move to after their development had already begun, can it? Does his genius extend to advising those there to now leave, as so many are doing, unfortunately? @@TrevorBarre
He is 100% right about the Tory, labour stitch up. This has gone on for over 100 years and it needs to come to an end. He is right about the EU. He is right about immigration.
@@alan_davis I don't think so. Take a look at the state of this country and how the Tories have trashed everything over the last 13 years. What do we have to look forward to? Useless Labour who are just as bad, maybe working with the EU loving libs.
It is often forgotten that the famous Balfour Agreement insisted, in the sentence following their support for a Jewish homeland, upon the preservation of the rights of the non Jewish residents of Palestinians.
And that the future Israeli PM Begin was leader of the zionist terror group IRGUN who blew up The British Mandate Office & HQ at the Saint Davids Hotel in Jerusalem with 98 people killed and Britain withdrew with their tails between their legs and no British foreign secretary visited until David Owen in 1978 !
Fascinating man and interview, thanks very much.
Initially I was impressed by his thoughtfulness and experience. I’m someone who remembers his hay day with some affection. However, I am struck by how little he relates his political career to ordinary lives. He appears to be a prime example of ‘political aristocracy’ and we all need to remember that aristocrats in any field have far more in common with each other than they ever have with the rest of us. Also. Farage? Really? Leaving ECHR? Really? I had forgotten just how off target and plain wrong he could be.
I fully agree with you. To be statesmanlike is essentially to acquit oneself little more than stylistically.
David Owen didn't really show himself as being of any great substance, and his lack of awareness of the effects of Brexit seems utterly risible.
What a delightfully sane and civil conversation! An island of calm communion amid madness. I miss those days when interviews were an intellectual dance and not mediocre WrestleMania.
Absolutely wonderful interview reminding me of the days when politicians could be trusted.
A real pleasure to listen to such a great interview, bravo!
makes me sad..reminds me when MPs were sane!!!! And not just greedy!!!
True, but I think we tend to look at the political scene when we were younger through rose-tinted spectacles. Greed and corrupt behaviour is not new.
Great man to listen to always
What a great conversation and great journalist by Goodall . I do love his style of journalism. Never afraid to ask the big questions and also so so smart .... thank you Lewis.
I remember watching the then recently ex-Labour Foreign Minister, David Owen being interviewed, immediately after Argentina had invaded the Falklands. He was asked what Britain could now do, to which he replied, nothing at all. The Falklands were too far away and it was too late to take military action. He said, we should have strengthened defences before Argentina invaded. Obviously, Margaret Thatcher had a completely different viewpoint and the rest is history. He had similar success predicting the future of British politics after leaving Labour to set up the SDP.
Yes I remember the big red bus saying ask us in a hundred years if Brexit is a success pretty sure David Owen said the same thing
Fascinating discussion that, first time I’ve ever heard David Owen speak at length. Personally, I’m an advocate of maintaining the HoL precisely because we need wise and experienced old hands being a check & balance on the today’s frenetic legislative circus. Ironic that Owen himself would see it abolished. Great interview Lewis 👍🏻
The likes of Boris and Truss have debased the HoL so there are now quite a few charlatans and shysters sitting amongst the wise and experienced. Current system needs to be abolished and a second monitoring and advisory house set up subject to election by members of the Commons, church and judiciary. All members need to show that they have made a significant and positive contribution to this country.
I'm inclined to agree with you about keeping the HoL, but I think it's been diluted with too many inexperienced, biased, political appointments to be able to function. I think something must be done about it. Let's see how they handle the Rwanda bill 🤷♂️
I largely agree with you, but we need to stop the politically motivated appointments to it. It should be experts and those who have given non-politically based service to the UK, not party donors and sycophants.
@@buzzukfiftythree exactly! 👌
You probably won't be saying that as the current membership filters out and it's dominated by Tory appointees from the BJ, Truss, & Sunak era. That's the problem with unelected and unaccountable politicians.
A man who thinks about positive outcomes and what it takes to achieve such - a breath of fresh air in comparison to the current government approach and lack of experience.
Many interesting opinions advanced on international politics and relations, but anything to do with Europe and UK and the Brexit blinkers are strapped on.
He isn't a federalist, anyone who isn't shouldn't really be backing EU membership.
Just tell me why,? When the political leaders of the EU (and that by which I mean the Commission) clearly want federalism, as does ,of course the major player in this, the Federal Republic of Germany.?@@jimwest7107
Terrific interview
Very educational.
As elegant and articulate as ever, and with just the same poor judgment. I'd forgotten what a disappointment he was.
Amazing interview.
I thought that was an excellent interview. I don't agree with Lord Owen on everything but all his opinions are cogently argued. Rare these days to listen to a political figure who makes you think rather than pushes your buttons.
Underneath, still very much David Owen and the same David Owen I would never have voted for.
More more more!
5 episodes a day please
David, rickets scurvy and malnutrition is now present among the kids of the UK. What would you do about it if you were in power?
I can't say I agree with everything he says, but I'm happy to listen to someone with firmly held beliefs and a coherent argument behind them.
The Gang of Four were a ragtag bunch at times, but I found DO especially engaging at the time. Unfortunately, as was said, they took a chance with the SDP to change British politics, but the system snapped back. If we get the chance again, we can't allow the "system" to win.
I remember Michael Foot’s assessment of Owen “Macho isn’t mucho. The greatest mountebank in British politics “
We do need an elected second chamber. The recent resignation honours lists have made the current system untenable.
Great interview, and as Lewis points out, some eclectic views.
What part of Brexit is going well? And why we should give a flying f..k what the late war criminal Kissinger thought about it is anyone's guess!
Brexit is just moving power from the EU Superstate to Westminster. You still have to VOTE in a positive government.
It has exposed the Torys, particularly with their pro immigration policy. They will now be destroyed.
UK-EU trade at record high, City/Services are booming. Against the backdrop of Remainers, many who watch this channel, saying there'd be a cliff edge and job losses, house price crashes and all sorts of disaster. Really all there is to moan about are some lower level single market related import/export issues which Owen is nodding to.
To Old. and dreaming of times gone by.
These old White men knew their stuff.
He is spot on regarding the failings of the two-party system. Should Labour win the next election, they have a duty to introduce a PR electoral system. Our traditional Punch and Judy politics has been a disaster; a disaster taken to its extremes on a bigger stage at the present time in the US by the Democrats and Republicans.
No Party that wins an election will vote for PR, regardless of how much fairer it may be; it would be like turkey’s voting for Christmas.
The difficulty with PR is that it is not interests of the major political parties to introduce it; not even the Lib Dem’s, for the simple reason that they would probably lose out to the small parties.
All the more so because of the machinations by the Tories to game the electoral system. The equalising of constituency sizes, for example, does not make them more democratic. On the contrary, breaking down boundaries is very much about diminishing community voices. Meanwhile, PR is desperately needed to draw politics back to the centre ground and return us to some sense of consensus politics.
26:40 suggests he isn't as sharp as he might sound...
Edit: and 29:40
A man of substance
Also a man who has worked for a few oligarchs in his time.
Sometimes, it strikes me that we grant ex. politicians with way more "gravitas" than they actually deserve...
Very interesting & civil conversation. David Owen still presents the face of a politician a world away from the populist charlatans of today. It would have been fascinating to probe his views on Brexit further. He seemed in danger of simply reiterating the standard Brexit 'lies', until he suggested that the Norway model was a valid Brexit option. I'd love to hear more of his arguments for this scenario?
He opposed EU political union, some Leavers consider Norway's deal to just leave mainly the trade side with the ability to make their own trade deals. So you stay in the market you are already in with your neighbour but can push on more globally.
@@jimwest7107 The Norway option was put forward, but the Leave extremists would not accept it, as it left the UK subject the EU SM rules, but unable to influence those rules. It seemed the least worst option, but Johnson promised the impossible, then failed to deliver.
"Your longevity is very long indeed".
Oldest surviving,former Foreign Secretary,you mean.
The look on smug Lewis' face when Owen says that Brexit is doing well... shock horror!
Ah, when politicians had gravitas, recognition and respect. Today's feeble, thin gruel of Politician are simply grey nobodies.
He has more gravitas than the likes of Chukka Amuna but in reality he's not that different from the current Blairite wing. In his prime he couldn't stand the thought of a left wing Labour party so split the party and set up the SDP to ensure Thatcher won.
Old White men knew their stuff.
The smug way Lewis talks with his eyes closed really needs to be discussed.
I agree with Mr Owen. Less war. None in fact.
Lewis is in danger of flicking his wedding ring in someone's eye
I wasn't familiar with him before this interview but the more he spoke, the more I wished he was in government.
The best ever TNA episode. Such an interesting and forthright man
People forget how useless he was in his prime. Who cares what he thinks now ?
Explain because I understand he was very well thought of both at home and abroad.
Very interesting but on balance l dont agree with David Owens politics. He believes in Brexit as a concept and thinks Russia can be appeased by allowing them to retain occupied territory in Ukraine. I am glad he never rose to political prominence.
Detachment, distance and time allow for some wisdom to bear fruit. A mostlyfunctional man of statesmanship. Not the fly by night toadies who flop into Westminster out of a flatulent sense of their place in the world. Hope the next election will flush out the blocked cistern of UK democracy as is. We need some real fizz in the right places. And I don't mean Trump. There's something else to go down the drain.
These old White men, knew their stuff.
Britain is a world power? While I value this gentleman’s views and perception, he is clearly quite off base when it comes to Brexit, the ability for this country to (a) grow at the rate needed outside the EU to support its welfare state and defence and (b) project its power in any way shape or form militarily without significant US support/logistics.
Also he advocates for a Norway style arrangement with the EU. This makes zero sense as one still must support free movement in the EEA, except one has no power to influence EU decisions. Its literally the worst of all worlds so how one could have championed Brexit and what it represents while simultaneously embracing the Norway model as the preferred outcome to the exit negotiations is beyond me
My sense is that he's a bit of an egoist
He sounds more and more like Heseltine.
Don't be absurd.
Helseltine has always been a EU supporter without equivocation .
Owen to his credit ,has always been eurosceptic , very unlike his former Liberal partners.
He comes across as a very unpleasant man with an inflated opinion of himself.
Found the Israeli/supporter of fascism ^
Your observation is that which has been levelled at him from his university days.
Sorry, did you watch the same video as I did? Owen's stature lies in him realising that moving to Docklands in the early 80s was a genius move, decades before the hipsters 'discovered' the area.
So Owen's genius can be demonstrated by his enlightenment that the London Docklands were viable to move to after their development had already begun, can it? Does his genius extend to advising those there to now leave, as so many are doing, unfortunately? @@TrevorBarre
He was a great man. We had great men in Westminster when I was young.
How old are you? Who in Westminster is at his standard
Sounding pretty senile
He is a dinosaur.
Man of knowledge.
Today's MPs not fit to do his shoes up.
He is 100% right about the Tory, labour stitch up. This has gone on for over 100 years and it needs to come to an end. He is right about the EU. He is right about immigration.
Or, he agrees with your views on those things.
You could both be wrong...
@@alan_davis I don't think so. Take a look at the state of this country and how the Tories have trashed everything over the last 13 years. What do we have to look forward to? Useless Labour who are just as bad, maybe working with the EU loving libs.
It is often forgotten that the famous Balfour Agreement insisted, in the sentence following their support for a Jewish homeland, upon the preservation of the rights of the non Jewish residents of Palestinians.
And that the future Israeli PM Begin was leader of the zionist terror group IRGUN who blew up The British Mandate Office & HQ at the Saint Davids Hotel in Jerusalem with 98 people killed and Britain withdrew with their tails between their legs and no British foreign secretary visited until David Owen in 1978 !