I always assumed that The Ood evolved on a planet with no predators and were the space equivalent of dodos. Features that make no sense and are, frankly, detrimental turn up in evolution all the time.
Yeah, that can work, to some extent. But the thing is, for those things that are detrimental to become common and then universal in a species, there has to be some sort of advantage. Dodos were docile because docility takes less energy. Not flying takes less energy. Shrinking in size (which often happens) takes less energy. But having you brain on the outside takes more than just a "less energy" explanation. You need a reason for why Oods with external brains would breed better than Oods with internal brains. Otherwise you might have external brains and internal brains together, but not just external brains. There are many ideas that could work. Maybe having them outside allowed them to grow bigger. Maybe it helped with the telepathy they seem to have and that seems to be a survival trait. Sure, they didn't have predators who would take advantage of their weakness. That's a given. But you need more than that.
I see what you mean. In some examples of detrimental aspects I've seen, they've progressed because they're genetically linked with (sometimes seemingly unrelated) advantageous features. For example, my partner has a high metabolism which results in him only needing six hours of sleep; however the genotypes responsible for this also make it impossible to digest vegetable fats and artificial sweeteners (the sugar tax has been horrid for him). Other than that, their telepathy could absolutely be a survival trait; perhaps it made it easier to breed. To be honest, the show should really delve into the biology and anthropology a bit more. I mean, it's not even been established if they're sexually dimorphic.
The thing that’s weird to me is, the fact that tivolli exists in the whoniverse makes it seem likely that a compulsively subservient species could evolve, say from the tivollis or from someone like them. I mean, at least for the slave piece that is mentioned as setting the doctor off, frankly could make sense in the context of somewhere like tivolli. In order to survive they not only surrender and allow people to take over so long as they don’t kill them, but for some races (including humans as seen in doctor who), they want more than your surrender to justify not killing you. If such a scenario were to happen to a species like the tivolli, but with some members who were already slightly better and more willing to be servants than the others, than they have a better survival chance, and so even as the invaders move out and new ones come in, they slowly refine themselves into being better and better servants until they have say, ten long arms and several sets of eyes and extreme multitasking efficiency, making them great at quickly conpleting lots of menial tasks, then they could have a survival advantage because now, not only do the invaders have a reason to keep them alive, now they also are more likely willing to house them, feed them, etc. making it be an even greater survival advantage. And, if they were treated as say, a butler or maid rather than just slaves, the occupants likely would also try to defend them against new invaders. Now I know that’s not what ended up happening with the ood, and I think that what @ZipplyZane said is likely accurate as well as your reply, but frankly I think that it is less of a nitpick to bring up, and more of a plot hole since it seems quite probable for such a species to develop in a universe such as the one depicted by who.
There's the possibility that someone further into the past line meddled with their genetics so that they'd become easier to exploit. I've been re-reading David Brin's Uplift saga and it goes into those ideas a little bit, especially in Startide Rising... I don't see any reason why someone wouldn't have done something like this to the Ood if they wanted them to eventually become a slave species. These don't even necessarily have to be the same humans who actually enslaved them. Or humans at all. 'specially if it's possible to turn other beings into Ood, would make sense that their own genetic code might be fairly malleable.
I`ve imagined (even when there is no proof or just a hint) that they have some sort of pouch near or beyond their collarbone, so the can "store" their external, vulnarable brain. They just need it outside to communicate telepathically with each other… just my thoughts.
Seeing as just in the previous season The Doctor himself changed from a Timelord to a Human down to the DNA level, I can buy that a human can turn into an Ood
The comment of how slave owners sleep at night makes me think back to series 1 where the 9nth doctor is having dinner with Margret and explains why her sparing one girl doesn't really mean anything.
Catherine Tate's acting as Donna can sell me on just about anything. I love how Donna is game for whatever comes her way, but she also reflects on what is happening. The Doctor lets her share the Ood song when she asks, but he (at this point) still respects her enough that when she is so emotionally overwhelmed and asks him to take it away again, he does. But that moment of sharing stays with her the whole series. Even if it's not in the scripts, Catherine Tate seems to remember and keep that in Donna's character. Donna is one of the best companions, and seeing her always makes me happy.
The Ood song is being translated in Donna's mind. It has to sound like actual music. Honestly, it would be hard for it to sound sad if it didn't. Best you could get is "sad and weird," but it isn't supposed to sound "weird." And while it is opera, it is of a type that is particularly highly prized, that of the natural male soprano. It was so prized that they would castrate boys to produce that voice. It fits really well, thematically, with just the barest hint of otherworldliness because we don't normally hear that sound today. It still sound human, which allows us to more easily empathize. That's the translation for you.
David Tennant & Catherine Tate work so well together. They're a comedic duo. I love them! Did anyone see the episode of The Catherine Tate Show where David Tennant played one of Lauren Cooper's teachers. It's hilarious! Do you fancy Billie Piper sir? I ain't bovvered. 😂😂😂
On the topic of how ood 'evolved' naturally to be where they are now: there are species on earth with no natural predators who have evolved to become completely peaceful. If we assume the ood came from a place like this where there are no predators then it becomes more likely for this evolutionary trait to have been adopted. When they 'sing' to communicate on a psychic level they raise their brains so perhaps the reason for having external brains is something to do with their psychic abilities? It is therefore true that no animal would ever evolve to be a slave but perhaps its possible for the ood to have evolved to be born 'with a brain in their hands.' Also I may be wrong but I don't think you mentioned having a problem with the doctor being able to completely change his biology to become human in 'human nature' so it seems a bit hypercritical to bring up changing biology in this episode.
The Doctor's logic that a species can't evolve to be enslaved is still wrong anyway. The Tivolians actively seek being enslaved as they see it as the best bet for survival.
@@mutantdevleTo be fair I think that was more a choice they made for they're own survival rather than an evolutionary path so I wouldn't say they 'evolved' to be slaves.
I can get behind that, 'cept for that huge brain that connects them all... It's locked away for decades in that one warehouse, so it's not like used for breeding, like a queen bee or something akin. Physically it's seperate and... well, okay, the Ood carry little brains, so there's maybe a 'family resemblance'? ^^; I dunno. I'm not saying it shouldn't exist, but it begs so many questions how this came to be. Unless, naturally it *is* their "queen bee" and in it's 'absence' the factory reproduced the Ood by cloning them...? And what exactly was in that hair tonic? We know how it works, but where did it come from? Is that the way Ood reproduce? Some liquid from them changes another creature until it becomes Oodkind? (Is that why they have no natural predators, because if they are eaten and the predators ingest their bodily fluids, they turn into Oodkind?) Is the 'tonic' related to the Ood Brain - which itself can 'eat'/absorb people?
I love this story. It's one of my favorite Doctor/Donna episodes. And like another poster said, I can accept that the Ood turned their "slaver" into one of them, because the Doctor likewise went from Timelord to Human (down to the DNA) in the previous season. I sort of look at it as a sort of similar to the "Ship of Theseus" thought experiment/connundrum, where slowly the Essence of Ood replaced different internal parts until all that was left was the external skin to be shed.
The man turning into an ood is a nitpick of mine too, but it comes back even worse for me in the Moffat era where you have people turning into daleks with eye stalks in their foreheads and tiny whisk guns on their palms Like those things aren't even natural parts of a dalek
I do think that’s different though. Because the premise there is that the people are hollowed out and replaced with Dalek tech via invasion of nano machines. Not that they’re literally being turned into Daleks.
Can you imagine what it would be like if a companion from the past met the current Doctor? Doctor Who has had multiple Doctors in an episode but we've never seen like Matt Smith's Doctor meet Donna Noble for example. 13 and Bill Potts or Captain Jack Harkness can fly off in the T.A.R.D.I.S. Just something I've been thinking about for a while.
They might have thought the singer's voice was unique enough. I'm sure you know this, but that singer is XY. I've heard others of that voice category and none of them sound the way this one does. It's an incredible and unique sound, so perhaps the showrunner and composer felt that could carry the alien qualities all on its own. But the Ood are my favorite Doctor Who alien race. ^_^
There are species that have evolved on our planet with no protection from outside species.. I seem to remember that an entire species of flightless bird was wiped out by a single cat belonging to a scientist looking to study them. Considering that when the man turns into an Ood he "spits out" his tertiary brain, it could be that adolescent Ood don't have external brains & they "drop" during their older years when their mental powers outweigh physical ability.
I like this episode. Although me and my brother always joke about the evil guy with the metal claws who _literally tries to kill the Doctor and Donna out of nowhere_ , especially the part where he says in a super evil voice, *_"I've always wanted to do this. hHhhMmMmMm!!!"_* Edit- Yeah it was already addressed in the vid but it's still hilarious
Haha:) Yeah, that scene is jarringly corny, and always pulls me out of what's one of my much-loved episodes, for a moment of cringing embarrassment before I can get into the story again.
I always thought that the maniacal security dude was really a statement about how these social constructs attract the most sadistic monsters. Because what they are inclined to do anyway is valued and approved, without society reigning them in like usual, so it brings out the worst people filling those roles. You get that kind of commentary around sanctioned torturers, or Nazis in WWII. So it worked for me on a conceptual level.
I could by that except that 1) I honestly feel like security forces who aren't inept are depicted this way more often than not already, so it's not a unique idea and 2) it's a terrible hammy performance regardless of thematic intent.
The maniac feeling is how authority reacts when a change could make them lose power. They may not show that face to the public but sanctions on movement and free thinking is clamped down just the same as a screaming fool in a tantrum.
4:52 "You let one of them go, but that's nothing new. Every now and then, a little victim's spared... because she smiled, cos he's got freckles, cos they begged. And that's how you live with yourself, that's how you slaughter millions, because once in a while, on a whim, if the wind's in the right direction, you happen to be kind."
The ood probably have their brain in their hands as a result of having no natural predators. So weird mutations like that could spread throughout a species without problema.
Once again Donna shows the boundless compassion that lies beneath her wisecracking exterior. The singing may not have been otherworldly enough, but it resonated with me anyway. I know Halpern getting turned into an Ood is a bit on the unrealistic side, but I find it weirdly fascinating nonetheless. I'm loving how many other commenters are referring to him as Captain Darling - y'all are my people! Also, there's no doubt you look good doing it, so you're allowed a little narcissism. ;)
The ood song isn’t really opera, it’s actually much more odd than that. Opera tends to have a much more “acted” vibe, because it takes place as part of a story and when you know the lyrics, it’s more like a musical. You can hear the difference clearly if you listen side by side. The ood song is a 20th century take on baroque mass music, like a requiem. You can hear it in the lyrics: 1. Because it’s in Latin (very few operas are in Latin) And 2. Because the singer is not “acting” the words. The words don’t tell a story, they are kind of religious and more like someone’s reading a passage from an ancient text. Adding this with the more 20th (or I guess 21st century) harmony and it has a very different feel to it. It’s not something you would ever hear normally. In that sense Donna’s reaction to it makes sense, she would likely never have heard anything like this before, even in the unlikely event she went out of her way to listen to either of the influences. I know the average viewer wouldn’t pick that up, hopefully they would subconsciously, but I think it’s a really neat touch to the episode. I mean, what were you expecting, synths? Weird instruments? While that would be more immediately appealing, Gold’s gone for a much deeper approach, which for someone like me is the sign of a brilliant composer.
Great review, however I would like to point out (as I'm sure many others have) dinosaurs don't actually have hind brains, that was a theory that was quickly proved false. The cavity where they thought the hind brain would be turned out to be used for something else
I am glad you picked up on the PR lady. i would have loved a bit more on an exploration into her. I feel she is one of those characters where like she knows they whole system is wrong and everything but she is not the direct one doing it. she is just paid for stuff and as long as she gets her monthly paycheck that's fine and she will turn a blind eye. I like when the Doctor says "What because you don't ask?" not only spitting her own words back at her (which i always love when it comes to bringing down antagonists in media) but also basically shows her ignorance. deep down she knows this is wrong but clearly money or something else is a higher motivation for her. and not turning this into a race issue. well kind of considering the episode is about slavery but the PR lady i think her name is Salhana or something like that the actress and the character is Asian. like Pakistani or Indian or something. i dunno the specifics but just a general guess but considering the theme of the episode her ancestors would have been treated very much like the Ood as second class citizens because lets not sugarcoat stuff we have treated Asian people like utter shit in the past so you would think she would be one person who would have some kind of compassion or sympathy for the Ood but clearly money overrides her morality and in the end she paid the ultimate price for her ignorance.
The only thing necessary for a trait to evolve is for its survival benefit to outweigh or at least equal its detriment. The external brain could play a role in communicating with the social group, like in End if Time when they all joined hands to see the psychic message about the Master. It could also be a way to increase intelligence with more brain volume. Humans sacrificed our jaw strength and made childbirth more dangerous for the sake of larger skulls and forebrains. This could be a similar adaptation to that. As to the changing species, in a universe where Time Lords can literally rewrite the DNA of every cell in their bodies and become a biologically different member of their species in seconds, it's not that far fetched. The tonic could work like a virus, replacing the human DNA in each cell with its own and gradually repurposing the proteins and tissues into a more and more ood-like body, until it effectively was an ood. There was a species in Star Trek: Voyager that reproduced this way, I think. ...not that _that_ makes it scientifically plausible. lol
Is it possible the ood didn't evolve such a vulnerable brain naturally, but were selectively bred to be that way by humans? I haven't seen the episode in a long time, so I don't remember the explanations given, but maybe the ood originally had more protection for the external brain
I'd buy that. I can almost see a mutation showing up as a lump on the chest or neck, and slowly being bred into the lines (like animals with docile natures and subservient personalities. )
As regards to the Ood's evolution, there's the obvious parallel to the Dodo. These now-extinct birds had no predators, so weren't wired to be wary of strangers. Man comes along and eats them to extinction. Similarly, the Odd were just as trusting until it was too late.
I get that but... evolving a hindbrain that has to be held in their hands?? I mean, it basically renders them one handed at best, and armless if they're trying to protect it.
@@CouncilofGeeks Yes and that is the point of darwinian evolution. I'm gonna try to explain it here... If something has a negative effect on the survival of a species, then the random mutations become more important for a better survival of the species and evolution (survival of the fittest) But, they never had an enemy, so the the mutation didn't stop them from reproducing in comparison to the members of the species who didn't have the mutation, and the mutation becomes widespread fast and after some more time even the standard of the species. (dominant trait?) So this i can understand how it happened, we also have weird mutations that make no sense, as long as they don't drag us down for reproduction in comparison to the other members... i have more problems with the human transforming into a ood (and so fast!), that's really farfetched
@@tommihorttana860 Yeah that's true, but i still can see this mutation happen it's not perfect, but good enough... And that's what's enough for surviving and evolution too....
I don't know why, but this episode reminds me of the video game Detroit Become Human. If you replace the Ood with androids, it feels like a similar story.
Yeah, the claw scene just comes out of nowhere, and just feels like a here's-a-cliffhanger-for-no-other-reason-than-we've-reached-that-part-of-the-runtime moment, except that it's in the middle of a single episode. It was just strange.
Maybe there was an ood larva incubating inside him. Maybe, because of their telepathic abilities, the larva was then able to transfer the directors consciousness into itself, letting his old body die as the mature ood emerged while his mind lived on in the new ood.
Hate to be that guy, but this myth needs to die. Dinosaurs didn't have 2 brains, that misconception started when early archaeologists found a gap in the hip bone of a stegosaurus specimen which was most likely used to hold spinal fluid. They assumed this to be true as they thought dinosaurs' brains were too small to cope by themselves. That being said (sorry about that, but misinformation about dinosaurs is a big pet peeve of mine), this is probably the weakest episode of series 4, but Donna still shines with her compassion and it's not even THAT bad to begin with so if this is the weakest one, that really speaks to how strong series 4 is as a whole.
@@ljnchannel2706 Thinking about it now, The Unicorn and the Wasp is objectively the worst episode of that series, but it's really hard to dislike...'cos Donna
Donna really dug going on the adventures with the Doctor. Thanks Nathaniel for getting my mind off something devastating that happened to me this week Ties suit you
Personally i believe that as the ood sing telepathically the opera-esque sound may just be our brain's own way of interpreting the telepathic singing which is presumably an expression of raw emotion. But yes the whole human + "hair tonic" = ood is a bit hard to swallow.
This is a great episode and goes without saying Tennant and Tate' chemistry throughout seres 4 is 11/10. Donna heard two different songs by the Ood. The first time was a song about captivity and being slaves so it was a very emotional, sad song. At the end it was a happy song because they were freed and saved by the Doctor and Donna. It was a happy song because they were happy. I love rewatching the RTD era even over 10 years late it still stands up today. Well some CGI doesn't but the stories do.
I think this is one of the weaker episodes of series 4 but even then it's still quite a good and enjoyable episode. And the music is soooooo good, definitely matches the performances in skill
Honestly, that's one of my issues with that film as well. I get the mutation thing, but it's creating a perfect recreation of a completely different species... it's just too clean.
The whole "being a peaceful, trusting people" thing works for me because Dodos were not stupid birds, they were birds that had no natural enemies before humans arrived in their habitat. I figure it's the same for the Oods. Isolated environment, no reason to already know to be suspicious. However, the physicality of the external brain? Hands are kinda necessary for more than warfare or self-defense, so...yeah, I get your point. And since the hands seem human-ish enough, that kinda implies the brain evolved after the hands, or the hands would look different since their main purpose would be to carry the brain and might as well have no fingers or something. So now my question is: What happened to cause the Ood to develop an external brain and why is that external brain on a cord instead of firmly attached elsewhere?
Oooooooooooooooooooooh, what if humans and Ood do share a common ancestor? That could be used to explain the human-to-Ood transformation and maybe the external brain business?
As a biologist...yes, the brain in the hands thing bothered me too. It suggests the hands evolved first (to manipulate stuff, like our hands) and then the hind brain dropped down, or something (otherwise why do they have HANDS, rather than something more specialized for brain-carrying) and what could possibly be the advantage of that? Although...the whole ecology of the planet seems weird. We don't see any other plants or animals, so what did the Ood eat? The whole setup does feel like it is meant to be almost magical (like you mention with the species transformation). But Dr. Who isn't really hard sci-fi, so it doesn't bug me THAT much.
My only problem with Darling turning into an Ood is that it all happened so quick, effectively in one short moment. Internally, those changes would have has a much greater impact on him externally, yet he was all but human until the transformation started.
I don't think we ever got to know much about the Ood. But they do have abilities that are not explained. Why shouldn't they have a way to transform someone on the DNA level? Just because humans can't do it (and I assume they still can't do it at the time when that episode plays) doesn't mean the Ood can't...
I'm not saying I can't ever buy it, I just... even a technobabble explanation would be nice. I feel like I'm just being asked to swallow a little too much on faith with this. Like I said, nitpick.
I don't have a problem with them being able to transform species as a concept. There's no inherent reason it has to be magical. I mean, a Time Lord can turn himself into a human being, too, despite having no genes in common. Daleks could merge themselves with humans. And, no, the Lazarus monster was not based on anything that humans were in the past, despite the comment saying they were. The issue for me is more that, if you can do this, then there's whole lot more you can do. It removes so many restraints if you can do this on purpose. Especially if you can do it so easily. It's not like magic where you can have artificial restrictions. If you do it scientifically, then it inherently comes with a lot of other stuff. If you can do it as shown on here, without fancy machines and such, it means you're even more powerful. So it works much better if you do just accept that it is magic. But I don't think it's the only thing that works better that way. See many "magic turned out to be because of aliens" episodes. They work better if what they are doing is magic, and it's just that magic does exist. It's just hard to use and needs study like science would.
8:30 I had the exact same problem with the male pregnancy in series 11. The fathers can only give birth through cesarian which means before surgery was established for this species the males would have all died out surely.
I seem to remember this episode being quite good, but weirdly every time I actually watch it I don't seem to enjoy it that much. Not sure why that happens.
I just realized, it's kinda the same to me. The episode has a high ranking spot on my fave eps list, but I can't refute most the "nitpicks" pointed out in this video. IMO it's more of a "the parts are bigger than the whole" kinda situation... As a story, this episode sorta falls apart and is not the strongest. But the elements are great: Donna is one of my fave companions; 10 and her have a wonderful dynamic this episode; I do love the score (and personally think, the Oods' song - in the story - is meant to sound different to any person, but to evoke the same emotional response); the Ood themselves are an interesting alien concept and a good design; gotta love Donna's honest awkwardness around the Ood; the implied and told history of the era (and ours) is thoughtprovoking without being overbearing; ('cept for the security guy) the tones in the episode are well-mashed, from DoctorDonna-comedy to DoctorDonna-heroics and DoctorDonna-right-in-the-feels, hitting various beats without clashing (again, 'cept for that security guy); (almost) all the acting performances are great.... and it turns out the episode plays into the larger mythology of the show, with several elements introduced returning, long after this season's finale - so in a way it's even tempting to revisit the episode for that. So, when watching this episode there's a lot that just doesn't make it a great episode, but at the same time and when remembering the episode, all the really great parts just stand out each by themselves and make the memory so much better than the actual thing is. At least, to me.
@@thekueken Yeah, I think for me as well. That's the case sometimes, I'll remember an episode quite fondly because the little nitpicks and issues aren't the things that stick with me, especially when there are some really good elements that are more memorable. So this episode isn't perfect, but I definitely still like it, to what degree I'm still not entirely sure though.
I just realized, this episode is what the episode Rosa was trying to be! 2000+ years into the future, there is still slavery, racism, and colonialism. The Doctor helps out here and there, but it ultimately takes more than one person to liberate the Ood. The episode Rosa plays into something called Great Man Theory. Krasko's assumption, that preventing Rosa Parks from sitting in the front will prevent the Civil Rights Movement from ever happening, is false. Don't get me wrong, Mrs. Parks played a huge role in the Civil Rights Movement, but she wasn't the _only_ one. That's also part of the reason why the message of that episode, which you talked about in your review of that episode, doesn't land well. People can and should do more than just sit back and watch others fight for their rights. The Doctor, Ryder, Ood Sigma, Donna, Friends of the Ood, they and many more were all instrumental in the song of freedom (pun intented). A single person can do a lot, but a whole community of friends, collectively working together in harmony? They could liberate an entire planet!
What about the alien in series 6 when matt smith was in the hotel with the minotaur thing? He said his people just allowed themselves to be subjugated by whatever alien race conquered them.
i think that's more or less because they get invaded every other day. besides i think that the Davies era of the show was slightly more realistic in tone than the Moffat era.
@@arcadeassassin7176 Yes it was. They'd been invaded and subjugated so often that it had become the norm, so they just went along with it because they knew it wouldn't be long before it changed again.
Regarding your nitpicks: The first one is rather good, assuming evolution works sensibly. Personally, I'm surprised no entrepreneur came up with a brain holder, but perhaps the culture would consider it disrespectful. The second: How _do_ you portray alien music? Most do new-agey stuff, which has the same problem. Or, it could be described and not shown, but that's tricky to pull off. Thematically, opera works best - song made by people, not instruments. The third nitpick: All too often, it seems to me that the resolutions in Doctor Who are more magical and fantastic than logical and scientific. The show is definitely not, in any way, hard science fiction. Thanks for your analyses. I find them thoughtful and interesting, even (especially?) when I disagree.
This episode is written by Keith Temple who doesn't have any other science fiction credits on his IMDb page. If they used a writers' room with these episodes I doubt a ridiculous concept like an external brain would have survived. A few sciencey people in that room probably would have nixed that idea from the get go. From the beginning, when the Doctor asserted that a slave race would never just evolve, I thought, well I can think of at least one way it could happen. And then when the external brain explanation came about, it completely took me out of the episode. Still it's not a bad episode, because chemistry between the Doctor and Donna seems to make anything work.
They could have evolved in a symbiosis with another species, starting simple but getting more and more complex. In fact, you could say dogs are on this path, though not as intelligent as the Ood of course, and they still have a lot of heritage from their wolf ancestors (so they're not literally born subservient). If the other species died out for some reason, the Ood would no longer know what to do and would be more than happy to find themselves new masters.
so the concept of a retrovirus that rewrites DNA... on a species with DNA is Ood to you and too magical for your sci-fi? Ok. In sci-fi terms, the catalyst for the change slowly rewrote the DNA of the victim, and much like a cancer, for the most part, it didn't express itself. Sure the new DNA didn't support hair so he started going bald. As the process was ongoing very little could be seen until the last treatment, which used a substance to force a massive cellular regeneration, something we've seen with nanomachines in the Empty Child. In short? Your lack of imagination got in the way of your suspension of disbelief, and that is a fault of the story. In Empty Child, we didn't question the rubber gas mask spontaneously erupting out of the victim's faces, let alone the no organic components. The biggest difference is Empty Child wanted you scared not thinking, Planet of the Ood wanted you thinking not scared. As such the 'that shouldn't be posable' came much more to the forefront.
Well the human turning into an Ood is very weird, but it's not completely unbelievable. The Doctor changed into a human after all. They HAVE to trust anyone who they come across, that doesn't mean they were born for servitude, they still have independant thoughts, feelings etc. I just find the brain in hands kinda icky and very impractical. How do babies hold it? Do the ood not eat? etc. PS. these videos are making me want to rewatch some of these episodes.
As long as the basic biological building blocks are the same -- the compounds that make up DNA, other organic compounds, maybe even one or two similar cell structures (Golgi apparatus! my fav part of me! :D) -- transforming one being into another is theoretically possible, whether they have common ancestry or not. In practice it would be infeasible or at least very complicated to find a method of triggering something like that, but there's no universal law that says it can't be done. And *that's* not even getting into the idea that if, in the DW universe life on Earth was seeded by organic compounds or already-living cells from an asteroid as some real-life theories postulate, then there just might possibly be some, extreeeeeeemely distant, relation between humans and ood. On a much smaller scale there's already such a thing as a gene therapy to treat some diseases, which works by slightly changing a person's DNA. Not to mention the more controversial idea of genetically modified crops, which is even more like turning one type of being into another. So yeah it is far-fetched... but not as far-fetched as you might think. Which is exactly the sort of thing I like to see in sci-fi :D
I gotta say I prefer the Ood song to the song from Rings of Akhatan. Also I never understood what happened...why they stopped singing. It always seemed like the guy singing near the monster just...stopped. For no reason. But maybe that's just me.
yeah the brain in the hands thing always struck me as weird and nonsensical. How are we supposed to believe these creatures could ever function in the wild? It's ridiculous.
I enjoy your videos. But I do think there were a few nitpicks. Thus episode is one of my favorites. I loved the human to Ood transformation. Sometimes you just have to sit back and enjoy.
It's interesting you bring that up because I would class Doctor Who more as fantasy than sci-fi. Most sci-fi tends to be futuristic stuff (spaceships and laser guns and all that) but with a story that could be told on modern day earth really, like Star Wars as an example- an evil empire gets overthrown by a group of revolutionaries using smart tactics rather than brute force- not only could that happen, it has. Whereas Doctor Who, the science itself is made up and quite often the made up science is a major plot point.
So you cant by the fact he turns into an ood but you can by the fact that there are alien Nazi an alien who can regenerate when he is about to die. Its strange then you cant by this one littel thing.
Hammy performances have always been a bit of an issue for me when it comes to this show. The security guy in this episode is very irritating and takes me straight out of it, and I too can't stand the Master in series 3 when he's clowning about. Saying that, there have been some good melodramatic villains--I think Diana Rigg is very good as the villainess in The Crimson Horror, since that character was written to be very over the top. I think the performance has to fit the character and the tone of the story, and sometimes it doesn't work very well.
I honestly love the ood as a concept and as a design. They’re basically what I imagine real aliens to be like. But... This story isn’t amazing. It’s not terrible or bad by any means, I just think it’s quite weak and a bit dull. I love the ood though, this story just isn’t huge for me. I wouldn’t say it’s “top 15 worst stories ever” though. It’s just very meh.
I always assumed that The Ood evolved on a planet with no predators and were the space equivalent of dodos.
Features that make no sense and are, frankly, detrimental turn up in evolution all the time.
Yeah, that can work, to some extent. But the thing is, for those things that are detrimental to become common and then universal in a species, there has to be some sort of advantage.
Dodos were docile because docility takes less energy. Not flying takes less energy. Shrinking in size (which often happens) takes less energy. But having you brain on the outside takes more than just a "less energy" explanation.
You need a reason for why Oods with external brains would breed better than Oods with internal brains. Otherwise you might have external brains and internal brains together, but not just external brains.
There are many ideas that could work. Maybe having them outside allowed them to grow bigger. Maybe it helped with the telepathy they seem to have and that seems to be a survival trait.
Sure, they didn't have predators who would take advantage of their weakness. That's a given. But you need more than that.
I see what you mean.
In some examples of detrimental aspects I've seen, they've progressed because they're genetically linked with (sometimes seemingly unrelated) advantageous features. For example, my partner has a high metabolism which results in him only needing six hours of sleep; however the genotypes responsible for this also make it impossible to digest vegetable fats and artificial sweeteners (the sugar tax has been horrid for him).
Other than that, their telepathy could absolutely be a survival trait; perhaps it made it easier to breed.
To be honest, the show should really delve into the biology and anthropology a bit more. I mean, it's not even been established if they're sexually dimorphic.
The thing that’s weird to me is, the fact that tivolli exists in the whoniverse makes it seem likely that a compulsively subservient species could evolve, say from the tivollis or from someone like them. I mean, at least for the slave piece that is mentioned as setting the doctor off, frankly could make sense in the context of somewhere like tivolli. In order to survive they not only surrender and allow people to take over so long as they don’t kill them, but for some races (including humans as seen in doctor who), they want more than your surrender to justify not killing you. If such a scenario were to happen to a species like the tivolli, but with some members who were already slightly better and more willing to be servants than the others, than they have a better survival chance, and so even as the invaders move out and new ones come in, they slowly refine themselves into being better and better servants until they have say, ten long arms and several sets of eyes and extreme multitasking efficiency, making them great at quickly conpleting lots of menial tasks, then they could have a survival advantage because now, not only do the invaders have a reason to keep them alive, now they also are more likely willing to house them, feed them, etc. making it be an even greater survival advantage. And, if they were treated as say, a butler or maid rather than just slaves, the occupants likely would also try to defend them against new invaders. Now I know that’s not what ended up happening with the ood, and I think that what @ZipplyZane said is likely accurate as well as your reply, but frankly I think that it is less of a nitpick to bring up, and more of a plot hole since it seems quite probable for such a species to develop in a universe such as the one depicted by who.
There's the possibility that someone further into the past line meddled with their genetics so that they'd become easier to exploit.
I've been re-reading David Brin's Uplift saga and it goes into those ideas a little bit, especially in Startide Rising... I don't see any reason why someone wouldn't have done something like this to the Ood if they wanted them to eventually become a slave species.
These don't even necessarily have to be the same humans who actually enslaved them. Or humans at all.
'specially if it's possible to turn other beings into Ood, would make sense that their own genetic code might be fairly malleable.
I`ve imagined (even when there is no proof or just a hint) that they have some sort of pouch near or beyond their collarbone, so the can "store" their external, vulnarable brain. They just need it outside to communicate telepathically with each other… just my thoughts.
Seeing as just in the previous season The Doctor himself changed from a Timelord to a Human down to the DNA level, I can buy that a human can turn into an Ood
That was through Time Lord technology tho, not "hair tonic"
The comment of how slave owners sleep at night makes me think back to series 1 where the 9nth doctor is having dinner with Margret and explains why her sparing one girl doesn't really mean anything.
Catherine Tate's acting as Donna can sell me on just about anything. I love how Donna is game for whatever comes her way, but she also reflects on what is happening. The Doctor lets her share the Ood song when she asks, but he (at this point) still respects her enough that when she is so emotionally overwhelmed and asks him to take it away again, he does. But that moment of sharing stays with her the whole series. Even if it's not in the scripts, Catherine Tate seems to remember and keep that in Donna's character.
Donna is one of the best companions, and seeing her always makes me happy.
Dang Donna's first adventures are really dark first mass death/murder via volcano and then a labotomised slave race
and then a dude pukes a brain
The Ood song is being translated in Donna's mind. It has to sound like actual music. Honestly, it would be hard for it to sound sad if it didn't. Best you could get is "sad and weird," but it isn't supposed to sound "weird."
And while it is opera, it is of a type that is particularly highly prized, that of the natural male soprano. It was so prized that they would castrate boys to produce that voice.
It fits really well, thematically, with just the barest hint of otherworldliness because we don't normally hear that sound today.
It still sound human, which allows us to more easily empathize. That's the translation for you.
David Tennant & Catherine Tate work so well together. They're a comedic duo. I love them! Did anyone see the episode of The Catherine Tate Show where David Tennant played one of Lauren Cooper's teachers. It's hilarious! Do you fancy Billie Piper sir? I ain't bovvered. 😂😂😂
Did you see his reaction to getting the special recognition award? MUST SEE for any whovian...
That one's a classic
On the topic of how ood 'evolved' naturally to be where they are now: there are species on earth with no natural predators who have evolved to become completely peaceful. If we assume the ood came from a place like this where there are no predators then it becomes more likely for this evolutionary trait to have been adopted. When they 'sing' to communicate on a psychic level they raise their brains so perhaps the reason for having external brains is something to do with their psychic abilities? It is therefore true that no animal would ever evolve to be a slave but perhaps its possible for the ood to have evolved to be born 'with a brain in their hands.' Also I may be wrong but I don't think you mentioned having a problem with the doctor being able to completely change his biology to become human in 'human nature' so it seems a bit hypercritical to bring up changing biology in this episode.
The Doctor's logic that a species can't evolve to be enslaved is still wrong anyway. The Tivolians actively seek being enslaved as they see it as the best bet for survival.
@@mutantdevleTo be fair I think that was more a choice they made for they're own survival rather than an evolutionary path so I wouldn't say they 'evolved' to be slaves.
I can get behind that, 'cept for that huge brain that connects them all... It's locked away for decades in that one warehouse, so it's not like used for breeding, like a queen bee or something akin. Physically it's seperate and... well, okay, the Ood carry little brains, so there's maybe a 'family resemblance'? ^^;
I dunno. I'm not saying it shouldn't exist, but it begs so many questions how this came to be. Unless, naturally it *is* their "queen bee" and in it's 'absence' the factory reproduced the Ood by cloning them...? And what exactly was in that hair tonic? We know how it works, but where did it come from? Is that the way Ood reproduce? Some liquid from them changes another creature until it becomes Oodkind? (Is that why they have no natural predators, because if they are eaten and the predators ingest their bodily fluids, they turn into Oodkind?) Is the 'tonic' related to the Ood Brain - which itself can 'eat'/absorb people?
I love this story. It's one of my favorite Doctor/Donna episodes. And like another poster said, I can accept that the Ood turned their "slaver" into one of them, because the Doctor likewise went from Timelord to Human (down to the DNA) in the previous season. I sort of look at it as a sort of similar to the "Ship of Theseus" thought experiment/connundrum, where slowly the Essence of Ood replaced different internal parts until all that was left was the external skin to be shed.
The man turning into an ood is a nitpick of mine too, but it comes back even worse for me in the Moffat era where you have people turning into daleks with eye stalks in their foreheads and tiny whisk guns on their palms
Like those things aren't even natural parts of a dalek
I do think that’s different though. Because the premise there is that the people are hollowed out and replaced with Dalek tech via invasion of nano machines. Not that they’re literally being turned into Daleks.
Can you imagine what it would be like if a companion from the past met the current Doctor? Doctor Who has had multiple Doctors in an episode but we've never seen like Matt Smith's Doctor meet Donna Noble for example. 13 and Bill Potts or Captain Jack Harkness can fly off in the T.A.R.D.I.S. Just something I've been thinking about for a while.
School Reunion?
They might have thought the singer's voice was unique enough. I'm sure you know this, but that singer is XY. I've heard others of that voice category and none of them sound the way this one does. It's an incredible and unique sound, so perhaps the showrunner and composer felt that could carry the alien qualities all on its own.
But the Ood are my favorite Doctor Who alien race. ^_^
There are species that have evolved on our planet with no protection from outside species.. I seem to remember that an entire species of flightless bird was wiped out by a single cat belonging to a scientist looking to study them.
Considering that when the man turns into an Ood he "spits out" his tertiary brain, it could be that adolescent Ood don't have external brains & they "drop" during their older years when their mental powers outweigh physical ability.
honestly this may be the doctor who episode that ive watched the most, its brilliant
I like this episode. Although me and my brother always joke about the evil guy with the metal claws who _literally tries to kill the Doctor and Donna out of nowhere_ , especially the part where he says in a super evil voice, *_"I've always wanted to do this. hHhhMmMmMm!!!"_*
Edit- Yeah it was already addressed in the vid but it's still hilarious
Haha:) Yeah, that scene is jarringly corny, and always pulls me out of what's one of my much-loved episodes, for a moment of cringing embarrassment before I can get into the story again.
@@demaupin Yeah, RTD was a great showrunner but some stuff from his era can be pretty dated lol
The doctor rewrote his DNA to become human in Human nature/family of blood so it’s not like it’s unprecedented in this universe
I always thought that the maniacal security dude was really a statement about how these social constructs attract the most sadistic monsters. Because what they are inclined to do anyway is valued and approved, without society reigning them in like usual, so it brings out the worst people filling those roles. You get that kind of commentary around sanctioned torturers, or Nazis in WWII. So it worked for me on a conceptual level.
I could by that except that 1) I honestly feel like security forces who aren't inept are depicted this way more often than not already, so it's not a unique idea and 2) it's a terrible hammy performance regardless of thematic intent.
The maniac feeling is how authority reacts when a change could make them lose power. They may not show that face to the public but sanctions on movement and free thinking is clamped down just the same as a screaming fool in a tantrum.
I thought this episode was great! I LOVE The Doctor and Donnas dialogue about slavery. Very enlightening!
4:52
"You let one of them go, but that's nothing new. Every now and then, a little victim's spared... because she smiled, cos he's got freckles, cos they begged. And that's how you live with yourself, that's how you slaughter millions, because once in a while, on a whim, if the wind's in the right direction, you happen to be kind."
The ood probably have their brain in their hands as a result of having no natural predators. So weird mutations like that could spread throughout a species without problema.
Once again Donna shows the boundless compassion that lies beneath her wisecracking exterior. The singing may not have been otherworldly enough, but it resonated with me anyway. I know Halpern getting turned into an Ood is a bit on the unrealistic side, but I find it weirdly fascinating nonetheless. I'm loving how many other commenters are referring to him as Captain Darling - y'all are my people! Also, there's no doubt you look good doing it, so you're allowed a little narcissism. ;)
I love your reviews like this, because they help me figure out what was bugging me about the episode that I couldn't pinpoint
The ood song isn’t really opera, it’s actually much more odd than that. Opera tends to have a much more “acted” vibe, because it takes place as part of a story and when you know the lyrics, it’s more like a musical. You can hear the difference clearly if you listen side by side.
The ood song is a 20th century take on baroque mass music, like a requiem. You can hear it in the lyrics:
1. Because it’s in Latin (very few operas are in Latin)
And
2. Because the singer is not “acting” the words. The words don’t tell a story, they are kind of religious and more like someone’s reading a passage from an ancient text.
Adding this with the more 20th (or I guess 21st century) harmony and it has a very different feel to it. It’s not something you would ever hear normally.
In that sense Donna’s reaction to it makes sense, she would likely never have heard anything like this before, even in the unlikely event she went out of her way to listen to either of the influences.
I know the average viewer wouldn’t pick that up, hopefully they would subconsciously, but I think it’s a really neat touch to the episode. I mean, what were you expecting, synths? Weird instruments? While that would be more immediately appealing, Gold’s gone for a much deeper approach, which for someone like me is the sign of a brilliant composer.
Any episode with the ood, I love. Definitely my favourite doctor who alien species, my sweet little pals 💙💙💙
Claire McKinley first off, same, second, omg hi, i see you all the time on Ashton’s channel!
And Adipose. Those two together would be so fun and relaxing.
I agree that it's not a particularly spectacular episode, but I love the Ood, and it also gets bonus points for having Captain Darling as the villain.
I never noticed it was Darling until relatively recently and felt very dumb when I finally realised.
Some guy was turned into an Ood? Well that's, Ood,
Great review, however I would like to point out (as I'm sure many others have) dinosaurs don't actually have hind brains, that was a theory that was quickly proved false. The cavity where they thought the hind brain would be turned out to be used for something else
I am glad you picked up on the PR lady. i would have loved a bit more on an exploration into her. I feel she is one of those characters where like she knows they whole system is wrong and everything but she is not the direct one doing it. she is just paid for stuff and as long as she gets her monthly paycheck that's fine and she will turn a blind eye. I like when the Doctor says "What because you don't ask?" not only spitting her own words back at her (which i always love when it comes to bringing down antagonists in media) but also basically shows her ignorance. deep down she knows this is wrong but clearly money or something else is a higher motivation for her. and not turning this into a race issue. well kind of considering the episode is about slavery but the PR lady i think her name is Salhana or something like that the actress and the character is Asian. like Pakistani or Indian or something. i dunno the specifics but just a general guess but considering the theme of the episode her ancestors would have been treated very much like the Ood as second class citizens because lets not sugarcoat stuff we have treated Asian people like utter shit in the past so you would think she would be one person who would have some kind of compassion or sympathy for the Ood but clearly money overrides her morality and in the end she paid the ultimate price for her ignorance.
The only thing necessary for a trait to evolve is for its survival benefit to outweigh or at least equal its detriment. The external brain could play a role in communicating with the social group, like in End if Time when they all joined hands to see the psychic message about the Master. It could also be a way to increase intelligence with more brain volume. Humans sacrificed our jaw strength and made childbirth more dangerous for the sake of larger skulls and forebrains. This could be a similar adaptation to that.
As to the changing species, in a universe where Time Lords can literally rewrite the DNA of every cell in their bodies and become a biologically different member of their species in seconds, it's not that far fetched. The tonic could work like a virus, replacing the human DNA in each cell with its own and gradually repurposing the proteins and tissues into a more and more ood-like body, until it effectively was an ood. There was a species in Star Trek: Voyager that reproduced this way, I think. ...not that _that_ makes it scientifically plausible. lol
I found the brain bit gross as a kid now I find every ood appearance sad since each orb was in place of a hacked off brain.
Is it possible the ood didn't evolve such a vulnerable brain naturally, but were selectively bred to be that way by humans? I haven't seen the episode in a long time, so I don't remember the explanations given, but maybe the ood originally had more protection for the external brain
I'd buy that. I can almost see a mutation showing up as a lump on the chest or neck, and slowly being bred into the lines (like animals with docile natures and subservient personalities. )
The powerful seeing only mindless beasts and not hearing the singing hits differently in 2020 tbh
I really liked the idea that the 'hair tonic' was actually a substance that was slowly changing him into an ood.
The end of this was so cute, feel free to be narcissistic, you are lookin pretty good!
You are wearing Tennant's costume, a bit of narcissism is absolutely in character. 😏
As regards to the Ood's evolution, there's the obvious parallel to the Dodo. These now-extinct birds had no predators, so weren't wired to be wary of strangers. Man comes along and eats them to extinction. Similarly, the Odd were just as trusting until it was too late.
I get that but... evolving a hindbrain that has to be held in their hands?? I mean, it basically renders them one handed at best, and armless if they're trying to protect it.
@@CouncilofGeeks Yes and that is the point of darwinian evolution.
I'm gonna try to explain it here...
If something has a negative effect on the survival of a species, then the random mutations become more important for a better survival of the species and evolution (survival of the fittest)
But, they never had an enemy, so the the mutation didn't stop them from reproducing in comparison to the members of the species who didn't have the mutation, and the mutation becomes widespread fast and after some more time even the standard of the species. (dominant trait?)
So this i can understand how it happened, we also have weird mutations that make no sense, as long as they don't drag us down for reproduction in comparison to the other members...
i have more problems with the human transforming into a ood (and so fast!), that's really farfetched
@@ElynevanOpzeeland They'd still occasionally trip and squash those brains, and having two free hands to gather food would still be an advantage.
@@tommihorttana860 Yeah that's true, but i still can see this mutation happen
it's not perfect, but good enough... And that's what's enough for surviving and evolution too....
When you rewatch a video on a different account so you can like it twice.
I don't know why, but this episode reminds me of the video game Detroit Become Human. If you replace the Ood with androids, it feels like a similar story.
Yeah, the claw scene just comes out of nowhere, and just feels like a here's-a-cliffhanger-for-no-other-reason-than-we've-reached-that-part-of-the-runtime moment, except that it's in the middle of a single episode. It was just strange.
Maybe there was an ood larva incubating inside him. Maybe, because of their telepathic abilities, the larva was then able to transfer the directors consciousness into itself, letting his old body die as the mature ood emerged while his mind lived on in the new ood.
A review video about the Ood? Well that's...Ood.
I so wanted you to comment on that one second of the doctor in the cage where tennant just looks as if he's playing barty crouch jr again
You should watch Good Omens starring David Tennant it just came out and it’s honestly hilarious okay thx
Seconded.
thirded
Fourthed
Never watched this show but I just wanted to keep this going
Perhaps the Tardis translates it differently for the Doctor and Donna and all anyone else hears is Opera.
EXACTLY what I was thinking. And Donna was moved by the content and feeling conveyed, not just the sounds themselves. I believe, for myself.
Hate to be that guy, but this myth needs to die. Dinosaurs didn't have 2 brains, that misconception started when early archaeologists found a gap in the hip bone of a stegosaurus specimen which was most likely used to hold spinal fluid. They assumed this to be true as they thought dinosaurs' brains were too small to cope by themselves.
That being said (sorry about that, but misinformation about dinosaurs is a big pet peeve of mine), this is probably the weakest episode of series 4, but Donna still shines with her compassion and it's not even THAT bad to begin with so if this is the weakest one, that really speaks to how strong series 4 is as a whole.
Willimations i’d say my least favorite was the Agatha Christie episode. I really liked Planet of the Ood, though it certainly wasn’t perfect.
@@ljnchannel2706 Thinking about it now, The Unicorn and the Wasp is objectively the worst episode of that series, but it's really hard to dislike...'cos Donna
I like this episode because the guy who plays Halpern played Percy in "Blackadder," which is only my favorite tv comedy of all time.
Donna really dug going on the adventures with the Doctor. Thanks Nathaniel for getting my mind off something devastating that happened to me this week Ties suit you
I’m so sorry to hear you’re going through something rough.
@@CouncilofGeeks thanks Ill dm you on twitter why ok
Personally i believe that as the ood sing telepathically the opera-esque sound may just be our brain's own way of interpreting the telepathic singing which is presumably an expression of raw emotion.
But yes the whole human + "hair tonic" = ood is a bit hard to swallow.
This is a great episode and goes without saying Tennant and Tate' chemistry throughout seres 4 is 11/10. Donna heard two different songs by the Ood. The first time was a song about captivity and being slaves so it was a very emotional, sad song. At the end it was a happy song because they were freed and saved by the Doctor and Donna. It was a happy song because they were happy. I love rewatching the RTD era even over 10 years late it still stands up today. Well some CGI doesn't but the stories do.
To me, the best thing, the Ood brought to the Whoniverse was "Vale Decem"!... 😭😭😭
ChanCeNecK and the song of freedom! Love them both.
OOD is love OOD is life. This has got to be one of my favorite episodes of tens runs
The real question is what was on the twelfth drs browser history.
Yes but you can say how does a dalek become human but it happend.
True very true.
I think this is one of the weaker episodes of series 4 but even then it's still quite a good and enjoyable episode. And the music is soooooo good, definitely matches the performances in skill
I miss Murray Gold...
Something like the lead character changing into the alien species in “District 9” maybe?
Honestly, that's one of my issues with that film as well. I get the mutation thing, but it's creating a perfect recreation of a completely different species... it's just too clean.
I think his transformation was meant to be symbolic of the slave owner becoming the slave.
The whole "being a peaceful, trusting people" thing works for me because Dodos were not stupid birds, they were birds that had no natural enemies before humans arrived in their habitat. I figure it's the same for the Oods. Isolated environment, no reason to already know to be suspicious. However, the physicality of the external brain? Hands are kinda necessary for more than warfare or self-defense, so...yeah, I get your point. And since the hands seem human-ish enough, that kinda implies the brain evolved after the hands, or the hands would look different since their main purpose would be to carry the brain and might as well have no fingers or something. So now my question is: What happened to cause the Ood to develop an external brain and why is that external brain on a cord instead of firmly attached elsewhere?
Oooooooooooooooooooooh, what if humans and Ood do share a common ancestor? That could be used to explain the human-to-Ood transformation and maybe the external brain business?
As a biologist...yes, the brain in the hands thing bothered me too. It suggests the hands evolved first (to manipulate stuff, like our hands) and then the hind brain dropped down, or something (otherwise why do they have HANDS, rather than something more specialized for brain-carrying) and what could possibly be the advantage of that? Although...the whole ecology of the planet seems weird. We don't see any other plants or animals, so what did the Ood eat? The whole setup does feel like it is meant to be almost magical (like you mention with the species transformation). But Dr. Who isn't really hard sci-fi, so it doesn't bug me THAT much.
If time lords can turn into humans, then humans can turn into oods.
My only problem with Darling turning into an Ood is that it all happened so quick, effectively in one short moment. Internally, those changes would have has a much greater impact on him externally, yet he was all but human until the transformation started.
I don't think we ever got to know much about the Ood. But they do have abilities that are not explained. Why shouldn't they have a way to transform someone on the DNA level? Just because humans can't do it (and I assume they still can't do it at the time when that episode plays) doesn't mean the Ood can't...
I'm not saying I can't ever buy it, I just... even a technobabble explanation would be nice. I feel like I'm just being asked to swallow a little too much on faith with this. Like I said, nitpick.
I don't have a problem with them being able to transform species as a concept. There's no inherent reason it has to be magical. I mean, a Time Lord can turn himself into a human being, too, despite having no genes in common. Daleks could merge themselves with humans. And, no, the Lazarus monster was not based on anything that humans were in the past, despite the comment saying they were.
The issue for me is more that, if you can do this, then there's whole lot more you can do. It removes so many restraints if you can do this on purpose. Especially if you can do it so easily.
It's not like magic where you can have artificial restrictions. If you do it scientifically, then it inherently comes with a lot of other stuff. If you can do it as shown on here, without fancy machines and such, it means you're even more powerful.
So it works much better if you do just accept that it is magic. But I don't think it's the only thing that works better that way. See many "magic turned out to be because of aliens" episodes. They work better if what they are doing is magic, and it's just that magic does exist. It's just hard to use and needs study like science would.
8:30 I had the exact same problem with the male pregnancy in series 11. The fathers can only give birth through cesarian which means before surgery was established for this species the males would have all died out surely.
I seem to remember this episode being quite good, but weirdly every time I actually watch it I don't seem to enjoy it that much. Not sure why that happens.
I just realized, it's kinda the same to me. The episode has a high ranking spot on my fave eps list, but I can't refute most the "nitpicks" pointed out in this video. IMO it's more of a "the parts are bigger than the whole" kinda situation... As a story, this episode sorta falls apart and is not the strongest. But the elements are great:
Donna is one of my fave companions; 10 and her have a wonderful dynamic this episode; I do love the score (and personally think, the Oods' song - in the story - is meant to sound different to any person, but to evoke the same emotional response); the Ood themselves are an interesting alien concept and a good design; gotta love Donna's honest awkwardness around the Ood; the implied and told history of the era (and ours) is thoughtprovoking without being overbearing; ('cept for the security guy) the tones in the episode are well-mashed, from DoctorDonna-comedy to DoctorDonna-heroics and DoctorDonna-right-in-the-feels, hitting various beats without clashing (again, 'cept for that security guy); (almost) all the acting performances are great.... and it turns out the episode plays into the larger mythology of the show, with several elements introduced returning, long after this season's finale - so in a way it's even tempting to revisit the episode for that.
So, when watching this episode there's a lot that just doesn't make it a great episode, but at the same time and when remembering the episode, all the really great parts just stand out each by themselves and make the memory so much better than the actual thing is. At least, to me.
@@thekueken Yeah, I think for me as well. That's the case sometimes, I'll remember an episode quite fondly because the little nitpicks and issues aren't the things that stick with me, especially when there are some really good elements that are more memorable. So this episode isn't perfect, but I definitely still like it, to what degree I'm still not entirely sure though.
One my personal favourite episodes
I like this one
Unrelated but are you planning to review the good omens(Neil gaiman / terry pratchett) mini series :)
Oh wow, I'm 47th!
Tennant and tate are so good, You forget dr who is fundamenally time travel magic.
Great video again council of geeks.
The doctor donna that forgot that lol
I just realized, this episode is what the episode Rosa was trying to be! 2000+ years into the future, there is still slavery, racism, and colonialism. The Doctor helps out here and there, but it ultimately takes more than one person to liberate the Ood. The episode Rosa plays into something called Great Man Theory. Krasko's assumption, that preventing Rosa Parks from sitting in the front will prevent the Civil Rights Movement from ever happening, is false. Don't get me wrong, Mrs. Parks played a huge role in the Civil Rights Movement, but she wasn't the _only_ one. That's also part of the reason why the message of that episode, which you talked about in your review of that episode, doesn't land well. People can and should do more than just sit back and watch others fight for their rights. The Doctor, Ryder, Ood Sigma, Donna, Friends of the Ood, they and many more were all instrumental in the song of freedom (pun intented). A single person can do a lot, but a whole community of friends, collectively working together in harmony? They could liberate an entire planet!
What about the alien in series 6 when matt smith was in the hotel with the minotaur thing? He said his people just allowed themselves to be subjugated by whatever alien race conquered them.
i think that's more or less because they get invaded every other day. besides i think that the Davies era of the show was slightly more realistic in tone than the Moffat era.
@@arcadeassassin7176 Yes it was. They'd been invaded and subjugated so often that it had become the norm, so they just went along with it because they knew it wouldn't be long before it changed again.
Regarding your nitpicks: The first one is rather good, assuming evolution works sensibly. Personally, I'm surprised no entrepreneur came up with a brain holder, but perhaps the culture would consider it disrespectful.
The second: How _do_ you portray alien music? Most do new-agey stuff, which has the same problem. Or, it could be described and not shown, but that's tricky to pull off. Thematically, opera works best - song made by people, not instruments.
The third nitpick: All too often, it seems to me that the resolutions in Doctor Who are more magical and fantastic than logical and scientific. The show is definitely not, in any way, hard science fiction.
Thanks for your analyses. I find them thoughtful and interesting, even (especially?) when I disagree.
But no issue with time lords becoming human.....
Haha! I liked that outro, I also identify at times as a narcissistic jackass.
This episode is written by Keith Temple who doesn't have any other science fiction credits on his IMDb page. If they used a writers' room with these episodes I doubt a ridiculous concept like an external brain would have survived. A few sciencey people in that room probably would have nixed that idea from the get go. From the beginning, when the Doctor asserted that a slave race would never just evolve, I thought, well I can think of at least one way it could happen. And then when the external brain explanation came about, it completely took me out of the episode. Still it's not a bad episode, because chemistry between the Doctor and Donna seems to make anything work.
They could have evolved in a symbiosis with another species, starting simple but getting more and more complex. In fact, you could say dogs are on this path, though not as intelligent as the Ood of course, and they still have a lot of heritage from their wolf ancestors (so they're not literally born subservient). If the other species died out for some reason, the Ood would no longer know what to do and would be more than happy to find themselves new masters.
so the concept of a retrovirus that rewrites DNA... on a species with DNA is Ood to you and too magical for your sci-fi? Ok. In sci-fi terms, the catalyst for the change slowly rewrote the DNA of the victim, and much like a cancer, for the most part, it didn't express itself. Sure the new DNA didn't support hair so he started going bald. As the process was ongoing very little could be seen until the last treatment, which used a substance to force a massive cellular regeneration, something we've seen with nanomachines in the Empty Child. In short? Your lack of imagination got in the way of your suspension of disbelief, and that is a fault of the story. In Empty Child, we didn't question the rubber gas mask spontaneously erupting out of the victim's faces, let alone the no organic components. The biggest difference is Empty Child wanted you scared not thinking, Planet of the Ood wanted you thinking not scared. As such the 'that shouldn't be posable' came much more to the forefront.
Beautifully said.
Well the human turning into an Ood is very weird, but it's not completely unbelievable. The Doctor changed into a human after all. They HAVE to trust anyone who they come across, that doesn't mean they were born for servitude, they still have independant thoughts, feelings etc. I just find the brain in hands kinda icky and very impractical. How do babies hold it? Do the ood not eat? etc.
PS. these videos are making me want to rewatch some of these episodes.
As long as the basic biological building blocks are the same -- the compounds that make up DNA, other organic compounds, maybe even one or two similar cell structures (Golgi apparatus! my fav part of me! :D) -- transforming one being into another is theoretically possible, whether they have common ancestry or not. In practice it would be infeasible or at least very complicated to find a method of triggering something like that, but there's no universal law that says it can't be done.
And *that's* not even getting into the idea that if, in the DW universe life on Earth was seeded by organic compounds or already-living cells from an asteroid as some real-life theories postulate, then there just might possibly be some, extreeeeeeemely distant, relation between humans and ood.
On a much smaller scale there's already such a thing as a gene therapy to treat some diseases, which works by slightly changing a person's DNA. Not to mention the more controversial idea of genetically modified crops, which is even more like turning one type of being into another.
So yeah it is far-fetched... but not as far-fetched as you might think. Which is exactly the sort of thing I like to see in sci-fi :D
I'm left wondering why the big brain 'ate' the gun thrown into it.
I knew the problem with the episode would be the security chief. He was really bad.
Maybe the operatic ood is just a result of tardis translation?
Donna all the way
Wait - Every Arnold movie? Even the old ones (comedies and romance stories) where he barely spoke engish¿
Oh yes.
I gotta say I prefer the Ood song to the song from Rings of Akhatan. Also I never understood what happened...why they stopped singing. It always seemed like the guy singing near the monster just...stopped. For no reason. But maybe that's just me.
Good comparison, I agree the Ood song does more for me.
It's been too long since I saw it for me to remember what happened but yeah, the external brain and the whole transformation thing don't make sense
yeah the brain in the hands thing always struck me as weird and nonsensical. How are we supposed to believe these creatures could ever function in the wild? It's ridiculous.
Nathaniel, I don't know how you feel about Shakespeare, but have you ever watched the Tennant and Tate version of Much Ado About Nothing?
Oh I'm early that never happens
Wasnt hair tonic anymore it became hair toxic.
I enjoy your videos. But I do think there were a few nitpicks. Thus episode is one of my favorites. I loved the human to Ood transformation. Sometimes you just have to sit back and enjoy.
It's interesting you bring that up because I would class Doctor Who more as fantasy than sci-fi. Most sci-fi tends to be futuristic stuff (spaceships and laser guns and all that) but with a story that could be told on modern day earth really, like Star Wars as an example- an evil empire gets overthrown by a group of revolutionaries using smart tactics rather than brute force- not only could that happen, it has. Whereas Doctor Who, the science itself is made up and quite often the made up science is a major plot point.
So you cant by the fact he turns into an ood but you can by the fact that there are alien Nazi an alien who can regenerate when he is about to die. Its strange then you cant by this one littel thing.
3:30 They ex-ood :^) I see what you did there
What's next Santaran stratagem?
Now I have a rather unpopular opinion but I will stick to my guns... slavery is not okay.
The ood are scary as fuck in general. Just listened to master of callous and fuck the ood
Hammy performances have always been a bit of an issue for me when it comes to this show. The security guy in this episode is very irritating and takes me straight out of it, and I too can't stand the Master in series 3 when he's clowning about. Saying that, there have been some good melodramatic villains--I think Diana Rigg is very good as the villainess in The Crimson Horror, since that character was written to be very over the top. I think the performance has to fit the character and the tone of the story, and sometimes it doesn't work very well.
Were videos taken down? Or did I actually dream about your other reviews? No one's commenting "reupload!" so I'm lost.
I have absolutely no clue what you might be referring to.
@@CouncilofGeeks - er...okay lol
Wait the thumbnail changed
Yeah, my thumbnail guy got a break from his exams and did me a proper one.
@Council of Geeks cool, Looks good! loved the review btw
I honestly love the ood as a concept and as a design. They’re basically what I imagine real aliens to be like.
But...
This story isn’t amazing. It’s not terrible or bad by any means, I just think it’s quite weak and a bit dull. I love the ood though, this story just isn’t huge for me. I wouldn’t say it’s “top 15 worst stories ever” though. It’s just very meh.