X Men: is Magneto Right? | Philosophy Tube ft NerdSync
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- Опубліковано 6 лют 2025
- Marvel Comics & philosophy! Professor X might be a liberal but what if Magneto’s revolutionary politics is the path to peace? How do we challenge structural violence and systemic oppression?
NerdSync's video! • Why Are the X-MEN Hate...
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Recommended Reading:
PBS Idea Channel, What is Violence? • What Is Violence?
Falguni Sheth, Toward a Political Philosophy of Race
Johan Galtung, Violence, Peace, & Peace Research
Johan Galtung, Violence, War, and their Impact
Elias Canetti, Crowds and Power (Has some cool stuff about survivor psychology that might be very relevant to Magneto!)
Franz Fanon, The Wretched of the Earth
John Rawls, A Theory of Justice
John Stuart Mill, On Liberty
Achille Mbembe, Necropolitics
bell hooks, Ain’t I A Woman Chapter 4, “Racism & Feminism” and Feminism is for Everybody
Eric Williams, Capitalism and Slavery
X-Men, X2, X-Men the Cartoon Series, X-Men First Class,
X-Men Days of Future Past, X-Men Apocalypse, X-Men comics
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I wouldn't be surprised 'cause Stan Lee created the X-Men out of sheer anger and frustration of not being able to adopt children after the death of his second child. According to Lee (who is Jewish) was denied the right to adopt in a Jewish orphanage 'cause his wife is an Irish catholic but when they tried to adopt a child in a catholic orphanage they were denied 'cause Lee is Jewish (remember this was in the 50's) and out of that frustration and sense of injustice he created the X-Men.
Good Point.
jewish plot confirmed
Badass story. I mean, it's terribly sad and unjust, but that the Great Stan Lee was able to use that for artistic inspiration and create a world with characters that millions (if not billions) of people around the world cherish to this very day.
Stan Lee was a God among mortals. Excelsior!
I think there was a bit more going on when stan created the x-men than just that one experience. That may have been the catalyst, but you have to remember that this is a man who lived with oppression his ENTIRE life. Even in his old age when he was rich and successful and safe, you have to understand the fear and shared trauma that comes with being Jewish. Especially for somebody who started writing comics in 1939.
@@rebbyberard8150 Well I remembered that fact 'cause he said it himself in a documentary about him and he experienced that right around the time he made the X-men so that might also be a contributing factor.
WHY IS CALLED MUTANISM AND NOT EQUALISM?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!!!
Legit, made me laugh
I thought that was a rather shameful little jab.
Wulfshade boo hoo
The proper term for equalism would be egalitarianism and would cover both feminism and hypothetical mutantism.
That's seem to make sense.
I am a mutant
It's also worth mentioning that Charles Xavier, big apologist for "let's try to live together and cooperate", is a very wealthy man from a very wealthy family, with ability to literally rewrite mind of everybody who is trying to harm him, or even know his identity and position, and without any physical markers that would make somebody to suspect he's mutant.
It's very easy for him to argue that direct violence isn't an answer, because he personally wouldn't met structural violence against him in his actual life.
Tbf he did meet it as a kid because they treated him like someone with DID.
But even then, his wealth helped.
Charles Xavier is a self-righteous wealthy genius who never had to deal with oppression like other mutants have. His ideals are unrealistic & far too noble. The world needs balance. Magneto isn’t all the way right, but if I’m a mutant I’d pick his team cause at least they fight back. Not just wait to be attacked in my own home, defend myself & barely live, live on the run essentially, & all that to just be like “well I still have hope”…right I wish you guys luck with that.
I mean, Magneto is also not clearly a mutant, he has internalized his trauma as an excuse to be a terrorist, and make people hate mutants even more
@@simoneidson21the initial trauma he suffered was far before anyone knew he was a mutant. Most comics attempts to paint him as purely a villain have failed. Even their loose inspirations of MLK and Malcolm x for Charles and Eric have splashes of light in the darkness. Mlk was considered a communist even though that wasn't true. Mlk like Charles had a lot of skeletons In his closet. X since his conversion had no public displays of violence but stated violence is on the table. Magneto has many acts of violence but in most versions it is to serve a greater purpose.
Violence is always shown as bad when it comes from the bottom up but is normalize when it is from the top down.
Protester that sabotage a bulldozer to protected a forest are evil but cops that evict an old lady from there house because she can't pay the bank are just enforcing the law.
Always relevant
THANK YOU
Yeah the police officers are following the law. The bad people in that case are the policy makers. If you can't pay the house, you can't live there, but you need to be given an affordable alternative, or it's cruel.
Don't forget how the Boston Tea Party is framed in a positive light, but protests against the American government are bad.
@@solar0wind Following blindly without questioning is also bad though.
On Magneto and intersectionality: Magneto is both a mutant and Jewish so I'm sure he's thought about that a lot
Magneto and Xavier are actually both right. But Xavier's philosophy is admirable but far fetched and Magneto's philosophy is harsh but completely realistic
King Ramesez it's really brilliant how their conflict is written, there's no obvious bad guy
@@anatoldenevers237 Which is why I can't ever really cheer for either when I read their stories. I'm torn between Magneto's background as a Holocaust survivor and how justified he sounds when he pains over mutant prejudice and you know he genuinely cares for his people. I want him to win quite often, but at the same time you have characters like Nightcrawler, Professor X, Kitty Pryde, and Colossus who are just purely good people who care about you. Their selflessness, humor, and hospitality warms you. That their mission in coexistence isn't impossible because it happens within the X-Men themselves.
Different races/ethnicities-Russian Colossus, Southern Belle in Rogue, Canadian Wolverine, French Gambit, Bishop and Storm are black mutants; religions-Nightcrawler is Catholic and Kitty Pryde is a Jew, sexualities-Iceman and Shatterstar are gay, personality types, and backgrounds uniting to achieve something beyond themselves is something that you want to support.
@@thehobbyist7275 And that's what makes the X-Men so great. And why Magneto is arguably the best villain/anti-hero in all of comics.
Ask the neanderthals how they feel about mutants oh wait they died out or evolved in to humans
In other words educat the people and fight and destroy those who don’t fear mutants but just hate them or are just evil
Nitpick: Wolverine was made by the Canadian government not the American.
In The Cartoons,Later Comics and Video Games,he was made by both(Department H was Canadian,however it also had connections to the CIA and the fictional island nation of Madripoor bordering Spain). In The Films, Stryker was a U.S. Major during Vietnam and Logan had to clarify that he and his paternal half-brother Victor Creed were technically Canadian by birth.
I was about to say that Weapon X and Alpha Flight were Canadian.
#MagnetoWasRight
#MagnetoDidNothingWrong
#CyclopsWasRight
#CyclopsWasMagneto
@NerdSync love your channel but you probably should know this is a Marxist propaganda channel that does apologetics for violent communist anarchy groups like antifa.
Daniel Bertrand stop spewing your shit
Kudos for comparing Xavier and Magneto's philosophies and NOT going to the overdone MLK and Malcom X.
I wouldn't call it overdone when that's who they were directly inspired by philosophy wise.
Yeah, I thought that road was pretty well-travelled already
+Nazrat84 Actually no they aren't that was when. Chris Claremont wrote them he used X and MLK to keep them interesting.
@@rell127 actually they are, the struggles and philosophical differences in the X Men directly mirror the civil rights movement of the 1950s/60s. X Men comics debuted during the height of the Civil Rights movement.
If I was a mutant in the X Men Franchise, I'd either join Magnetos side, or form my own team.
This is something I have said for years. I have mostly known the X-Men through the movie franchise, and one cartoon show in the 90's. After seeing the behavior of the "humans" I have always felt very sympathetic towards Magneto.
+Stephanie Hight agreed
+ Daniel Diaz most definitely agreed
Lets be honest here, Xavier's dream is among the most unrealistic goals in fiction, let alone in real life. Magneto or Apocalypse represent causes you could believably side with.
Apocalypse wants to cause a human genocide and magneto wants mutant dictatorship ( atleast in some incarnations) both sound just as ridiculous as charles plan.
As a Swedish person I would thank direct violence for my democracy. During the industrial era a small elite made out of capitalist ruled Sweden and most others where worked to death under capitalism.
What created the society we have today in Sweden was not elections, but labor strikes and riots that often ended up in the destruction of property and direct violence. This was a form of act of democracy. When you are going to negotiate the terms of your oppression with the oppressing power you need to speak with the same language. If the power structure uses violence to oppress the people then the people need to negotiate back with violence.
Democracy stands on the shoulder of those who fought with the police.
The problem with tyrants is that they use some form of violence to achieve their goals. Peacefully protesting isn’t always going to get results.
I think violence is the one language humanity has only ever truly understood. It’s universal.
It's the same way the 🇺🇸 got the 40 hour work week.
I did not know that about Sweden. I think here in the U.S., we just think democratic socialism came about through political parties.
@@erinmcdonald7781
USA is a very special case. You could have gone down the same path as the rest of us, but you began sowing the seed of democracy as early as directly after the revolution. I can see why you think so highly of your founding fathers, they where great men. They did the right thing in a cruel and unjust world. But with that said it took almost 200 years for black people to gain the same rights as white people. Just because some things are good doesn't mean that there still isn't things worth fighting for in the US.
the fight does not end, though it becomes subtler.. more and more towards non violence of all parties involved..
more towards integration into the natural world, and the availability of resources, and sustainability of biological, mechanical processes which make life fun, and a play rather than a struggle just to be alive..
to celebrate life is the proof of a free society..
i do not agree that democracy is based in violence..
it is rather that dictatorship, and the failure to pacify people through it, is its own failure..
democracy is the natural state..
but it can only happen when people have an understanding, and an awareness, towards each other..
if that does not happen, even all those struggles and fights against police, cannot prevent a future dictatorship.. a blind democracy is as dangerous, perhaps more dangerous than a clear dictatorship..
especially in cases where the majority supports the dictatorial regime, and a strong military force is used, violence is way less effective//
democracy needs compassion in the first place..
and in the case of fighting at impossible odds
like martin luther king did..
the danger and risk of civil war is far more effective, than the actual going to war..
black vs white..
and this is what happens a lot in political discource (though it becomes less and less effective), the use of past dictatorships to make people aware: this is not what we want..
but what do we want?
democracy is about individuals, choosing freely to co operate, similar to the anarchy-communism.. but less loaded with bad examples (since communism has been thoroughly misused and abused by maoists and stalinists alike, even destroying for instance the spanish anarcho-cyndicalist revolution)..
and democracy is the goal, as far as politics goes.. we can do better than democracy, because we are not just political animals..
humans are fare more qualitatively than what is politically possible.. a body is more than its bones, and all political systems are dead like,
without the human spirit..
and so the theory is so easy to become corrupted when the name becomes the goal, and the meaning becomes perverted..
the moment democracy becomes exclusive, seperating man from man, man from nature, country from country, planet from planet..
it has become a pseudo democracy..
lenin used to call the ussr communist, even though it was not.. even though it had a gouvernment, and the people did not all together choose to revolt against the old system of monarchy.. his hope, was expressed in his naming of his country: communist..
but communism as envisioned by marx was anarchic, no rulers no ruled... and the ruling of the proletariat (all workers as a whole), the path to this.. this is where the corruption happened, and on this stalin built the violent dictatorship...
after stalin communism might have happened,
but the people just went from following one leader to the next, and the movement died out... just as it did in china.. perhaps the only country working towards communism at this point is vietnam..
towards a non gouvernment co operative democracy..
i can also be misunderstood..
its not about the words,
all language has a kind of politics in it, what to give attention to what not..
to be bound to words is also a kind of violence..
that this language i should use to be understood, to fit..
though in a way i would love to understand every language, and be able to read all those ancient texts and talk to any culture, minimising mediators..
language can be forcive but also creative..
one should not be bound by it anyway..
Loved this video! I'm a huge Magneto fan exactly because it's so hard to call him a true villain in my opinion - he fights against structural violence and even though I'm a pacifist I can see why violence is Magneto's weapon of choice.
There is a place where Magneto is the revolutionary you were musing about, though - fanfiction! I've read a lot of fics that portray Magneto in a very favourable light as a revolutionary.
Can you blame him?
He was a holocaust survivor and to top it off. He was a mutant.
The only thing that pushes him into villainy for me sometimes is how he is willing to kill his own kind even if it doesn’t directly effect his current goals
@@d7b50 because he was written by liberals who want to portray revolution as inherently bad and the people who want it as evil.
Some of the greatest villians have justifiable motives. There actions may be wrong, but you can see where they are coming from. Magneto is the perfect example of this.
So I get that discrimination against mutants is an allegory, but something about it always bothered me. Mutants are powerful. The differences that make people discriminate against them are the same differences that give them far greater power than any human.
Historically, it's very difficult to create systemic oppression against people with power. Racial history in the US would look very different if black people could shoot lasers out of their eyes or read minds.
You have to remember 3 things:
- Most mutants aren't powerful, they're just regular humans with weird quirks and appearances; the X-Men are super-heroes they are the exception. Also if the mutants used their exceptional cases to pose a serious threat to humanity, then humanity would used their own exceptional cases (read super-heroes/villains; along with high tech like the sentinels) to permanently stop them.
- Mutants are the minority, they don't have the power of numbers
- Mutants are recent (ignoring the exceptions of stuff like Apocalypse) which means they don't have institutional power to make sure their needs are heard.
It's really hard to say what would 'realistically' happen in a world of mutants, because there's really no president for it.
When you refer to "power", you're referring to social power, or economic power, or even military power. But there's never really been a minority group possessing some inherent power that makes them more individually more powerful than the ordinary person.
That's important, because when you look at historical examples, the difference in power is inexorably connected to their oppression. They lack power because society prevents them from acquiring it.
In the case of mutants, their power is innate, but you could argue that baseline humanity's far greater knowledge and institutional access to all sorts of advanced tech, and vast police and military forces, as well as holding dominance over modern culture and economy means that they could still effectively oppress mutants, even if mutants were individually more powerful.
Funny enough, I'd argue that the more liberal approach of the X-Men only facilitates that, by encouraging mutants to NOT use their powers to alter the status quo, whereas Magneto is explicitly intent on getting mutants to do just that.
I think the word you meant to use is precedent
Superhero stories are meant to be power fantasies created to make the readers feel (at least for a while) a little bit better. No one says that it's not realistic that Superman prevents nuclear war by just grabbing a launched missile and throwing it into space. Everyone knows that in real life buffed, handsome guys clothed in spandex won't get rid of discrimination by punching the baddies in their faces but those comics give the oppressed a hope and teach the rest about daily shit some fellow people have to deal with
@@BlueSun_
- Mutants are the minority, they don't have the power of numbers
However, they are the strongest minority powerwise.
I read the title and was like "Nah, he'd be radical left if anything." Then I realized you meant "is he correct?" LOL
Magneto is correct and more realistic
Magneto is auth left
@@simoneidson21 which is STILL more correct than neoliberal
@@anonymous36247 Libleft is still the best and Chuck is libleft, therefore Professor X is right
The most interesting thing about this comment section is that many people interpret the observation that 'sometimes direct (violent) resistance to structural (violent) oppression has resulted in an overthrowing of systems that incorporate structural violence' as being an endorsement for ALL direct violence regardless of context or outcome. Clearly this is not Olly's stance. Rather, I understand that he is pointing out how, in retrospect, we can determine that direct violence has sometimes resulted in a reduction of structural violence.
It seems that the most interesting questions raised by this video are: 'Do the ends justify the means?' and, 'Assuming the ends do justify the means, how can we accurately predict what means will best produce the ends we desire?'
Stories with Magneto as an antagonist and not a villain are my favorite. The 90s animated showis interesting because the show constabtly is saying magneto is corrupt and wrong and vile, but he literally is almost always right. A standout example is Xavier saying magneto will succumb to the corruption of power in regards to asteroid M, but magneto when asked to exterminate the humans responds that he is there to save his people, not avenge them. Veyond that, he is extremely restrained to reciprocate with nuclear warfare when attacked. Conversely, the versions of magneto as a weird eugenecist megalomaniac miss the whole point of the character. I think having magneto being a survivor of fascism and supremecist puts him in a great position to counter the naive idealism of xavier.
He looks like young Professor X lmao 😂
I would take that role
+Philosophy Tube 👌😆
omg dude you totally do haha
Bruh shave this dudes hair and it’s a perfect role.
Ho-ly shit I knew he looked familiar without the beard
4:44 Dr. King once famously said that was the definition of a negative peace rather than true peace.
And then Moira comes along and says 'Xavier, your dream was wrong, we need immortality and swords'
olly: i am not advocating the use of violence by anybody
me: ok charles
"I am a Jew. Hath not a Jew eyes? If you prick us, do we not bleed? If you tickle us, do we not laugh? If you poison us, do we not die? *And if you wrong us, do we not revenge?"* --Shylock, The Merchant of Venice (William Shakespeare)
"...a pit where men are thrown to suffer and die. *But sometimes a man rises from the darkness. Sometimes the pit sends something back...Born and raised in hell on Earth"* --Alfred Pennyworth, The Dark Knight Rises (DC Comics)
I remember one of the most pleasing conversations I had with my dad was about Magneto.
I asked him as a kid : "Dad,why they call Magneto if he's just defending his people?"
I still remember how proud and happy he got for me at young age to have recognized a true hero.
He's not a hero not even an anti hero...
Shut up nazi scum
Some versions of Magneto would mass murder random people and not just the government that's oppressing and attacking them.
@@renzogallegos5877 definitely an anti hero
@randomprick7353 eh, he's still a bigot and mass murder/genocidal maniac and basically a nazi on top of all that since he believes in mutants being the "superior race".
1:20-1:25 structural violence gets physical too. Some autistic support tactics that are legal in the USA have been deemed torture that’re illegal to be used on prisoners of war. And if people point that out in a way that’s seen as inflammatory, they get charged as terrorists.
I think Magneto is such a compelling villain because it is easy to understand or even agree with his motivations.
Something to consider:
Magneto dehumanizes baseline humans pretty much the same way that humans dehumanize mutants. He has bought into that all-too-common lie that humanity is fundamentally terrible and not worth saving.
And, a lot of us, with varying degrees of trauma, agree with him. How can there be any humanity in the people who have done these terrible things? I know I've thought it from time to time; I admit it.
A lot of people do monstrous things, but that doesn't make them monsters. The second that we think of them as such, we rob them of any accountability.
Professor X and Magento represent more than two sides of the same coin; they represent the choice between compassion and hatred. Hatred is easy. Anger is easy. Revenge is easy. Compassion is hard. Caring is hard, especially when it's for people who will absolutely refuse that same courtesy to you. Despite all the hatred flung back at them, the X-Men can and do care, and it does make a difference.
Next time you think people are beyond redemption, remember: Rogue used to be a bad guy.
People in power don’t give up power by choice. It has to be taken.
Another issue with mutants is how do governments reaction to the formation of both teams. Mutants are feared because mutantphobes believe they will rise up and take over. Magneto's advocacy of direct violence inflames these fears and contributes to further mutant oppression. However, his ideas of mutant separatism do seem like a positive solution to the issue of existing under structural violence in homo sapiens society. Even Xavier's boarding functions a mutant safe space outside the bounds of human culture and sometimes law.
We need a second part to this analysing the Krakoan era.
Not sure if you will see this, but I would love to see this video made again.
One problem I see when trying to justify direct violoence is that in many or most cases its justification relies on post hoc analyses of largely unpredictable events, whereas the initial decision to employ it is seldom driven by anything approaching altruism.
good point!
D Staff I've seldom found "thinking too hard" to be the problem, in most cases the problem is quite the opposite.
The example you give is at the easy end of the spectrum to answer, dealing as it does with direct and immediate threat and the right to self defence. Most of the examples cited by Olly in the video are much less obvious to answer.
So what are you going to do when a government institution is bearing down on you, killing you and everyone you love in the moment?
"They are killing us, what are you going to do about that?"
The only thing you can.
I agree with magneto, humans will always hate mutants even when mutants save them. For example if the avengers saved the earth they are praised as heroes but if the X-men save the earth then hardly anyone thanks them
There were many times the people thanked the x-men for heroic shit in the comics.
@@kpencil859 the x-men sure. Far less often does the world thank Magneto for saving them and less often still the Morlocks. The X-men are an exercise in respectability politics. They all look relatively human, most look white, and all of them have "useful" powers. Also, when the world lauds the X-men as heroes, it is forgotten within seconds and once again the x-men are fighting sentinels or something. The x-men are not respected by the other heroes either. When Namor tried to flood the earth in 2019, Captain America blamed the mental meddling of Xavier (which played a role, but Namor was still the main problem). When Reed Richards wouldn't help Kitty Pryde, the mutants went to Dr Doom for help and the FF FOUGHT the x-men using slurs like "mutie" during the fight.
3:42 "The US government" double check the comics. Weapon X is Canadian government! :O Big shocker, eh?
I think part of the issue isn't about direct violence so much as Magneto's tendency towards tribalism. For him, a mutant is always worth more than a human and he'll accept crimes committed against humans by mutants under the banner of 'we are oppressed' regardless of the cause. Most of the mutants he works with are pretty damn awful people but he'll work with them to achieve his goals without thinking about the fact he's corrupting his own goals of justice by embracing so many causes of injustice. Sabertooth for example is a mass murderer, not for the sake of mutant liberation but because he wants to kill people.
Magneto's points are not wrong but Magneto himself isn't right, would be my overall leaning. He's too caught in his cycle of revenge to achieve his own goals.
I think people idealize magnito as a leader too much. Hes genuinly a toxic person. He treat the people under him and his own children like crap. Even, if not more so, when hes on charles path. And despite his words the way he treats people usually causes his plans to backfire.
Also this is a main reason why his relationship with rogue is stupid like outside his ideals hes way too truamatized to be in this sort of relationship
You have lovely eyes sir.
+Tré Oliver thanks! No-one's ever said that before!
@@PhilosophyTube It's true! :)
@@PhilosophyTube I guess it's "you have lovely eyes, mam" now 😉
7:13 well, Magneto being a Jewish Mutant during the holocaust, I think there have been... though it wasn't in Magneto: Testament
Doom proves that Magneto was correct.He may manipulate certain information to throw his enemies off or be extremely brytal and manipulative buf in the end he's willing to risk his life,pride and even power to help his people and because they know this they'll always choose him.
"Genoism"? Wherever the mutant abilities come from, discrimination (much like selection pressure) must focus on the phenotype, not the genotype.
Mutants who can "pass" won't face the same levels of day-to-day discrimination as those who bear obvious physical signs of their genetic difference. And some mutations are prettier than others.
"Phenoism", probably.
you can test for the x-gene and in-universe the laws often apply to all mutants. Additionally, they DO NOT apply to mutates like Spiderman who frequently get confused with mutants but lack an x-gene
working with nerdsync is definitely one way to get me to subscribe, good job on networking!
Welcome to the little community! And I think the first collab we ever did, Scott reached out to me!
I mean, Professor X is in general much more intersectional than Magneto, in anything because he acknowledges the suffering of other groups other than just mutants, and tries to help as many people as he can, while Magneto is pretty short-sighted.
Hi all, I really enjoyed this and wanted to raise a couple things - please forgive my pedantry (if you want). Going by the dictionary (wikipedia) definition of intersectionality there are many points of intersectionality in X-Men but they are not usually thrust into the spotlight in the same way that a conflict between superpowered individuals is. Some off the top of my head:
- Cyclops' blindness/colour blindness (see: Uncanny issues re: relationship with Cap. Lee Forrester/Magneto or the JPL Morrison issue where he's beginning his psychic affair with Emma)
- Blob's weight is repeatedly emphasised, and again in a different light after M-Day (see: Generation M/Paul Jenkins)
- Maggot's eating disorder, as well as his nationality (see: X-Men issues by Joe Kelly)
- Tabitha's background ('white trash' upbringing, abusive father - see: Jeph Loeb/Adam Pollina X-Force)
- Ororo's recalling of her past ('little girl back in Africa', growing up poor, a thief - "I was 12 years old when a man first looked at me thus" and then again when she is depowered and on a pilgrimage to find herself (Lifedeath Part 2/Claremont/BWS, a Black woman leading the team when Scott steps down, and in the Byrne/Cockrum era, always naive of how things are in America vs. what she knew in Kenya)
- Dani Moonstar and Forge ("proud of my Cheyanne heritage"). I think that's even the case with John Greycrow/Scalphunter, one of the Marauders
- Lorna's body image and anxiety and mental health issues
- Guido - body image because of his mutation (Quesada/Peter David X-aminations issue post-X-Cutioner's Song)
- Rahne's extreme abusive Catholic upbringing shaped the way she looked at the world for years (Claremont)
- Jubilee is mocked by the Chinese teenagers in China because she is too Americanised for them (Claremont/Silvestri I think?)
- Betsy's body image and ethnicity post-Acts of Vengeance (Claremont/Nicieza)
- Warren's 'other face' which should be read as anger management/mental wellbeing issues (Claremont/Nicieza)
- Rogue's upbringing as a Mississippi 'river rat' and her added inability/physical disability to touch anyone, amplified at various points such as Carey's Red Data arc where she ends up absorbing 8 billion minds
- Kitty's Jewish background
- Laura's abusive upbringing and 'no-filter' on what she says - similar to Xorn's character really
- Beak and Angel's physical disfigurements (Morrison)
- Bobby's sexuality (Bendis/Asrar)
- Illyana's abuse and 'addiction to dark magic'
- Sarah/Marrow and Caliban of the Morlocks, probably the most obvious example of intersectionality where poor, homeless, sometimes physically disfigured or significantly physically different to the rest of the mutant population come into contact with humans
Genosha, when originally conceived by Claremont with Rick Leonardi was an allegory for apartheid but examines more than just the capitalising of mutants' superpowers for the state, it's also about the physical transformations that they undergo, signalling the fetishisation of the physique in service to the slavemasters - the skin suits are bonded to the bodies, the mutants are branded and shaved, some latent powers are amplified like with Jenny Ransome.
Another point I wanted to raise quickly was that someone in the comments below had said the X-Men never attack humans, or that they never defend mutants from humans, but rather go after the mutants that have been incited to violence after being provoked by humans. This also isn't accurate but can totally be forgiven just because - no - they don't often attack non-powered humans, but it does happen. On Genosha when facing the Acolytes for the first time, Beast protects Psylocke from a bunch who attack her. Rogue's team smashes up Dr. Pan's clinic in Carey's first few runs. The X-Men attacked the ONE led by Val Cooper. When Morrison and Kordey established the international X-Corps they were defending mutants from persecution on the streets of Paris. In the Claremont/Byrne run Ororo visits Harlem on the trail of her mother's past and is attacked by kids in one of the apartments being used as a squat, and is rescued by Misty Knight and Luke Cage. Indeed Kurt's first appearance was being chased by a horde of torch-wielding humans that Xavier put 'on hold'. In that Morrison/JPL issue, a mother's mutated son is killed by the Police because she can't get him the medication he needs. Shattershot also featured the X-Men fighting armed Afghan fighters in the Hindu Kush before realising they're not the enemy. In Soldier X Cable turns a dictator's hands to Uranium to stop him terrorising a Russian village. Magneto was also responsible for sinking the Soviet nuclear sub Stalingrad, killing 150 sailors when it went down.
From the title of this I've already formed my opinion. If I were a mutant, why the hell would I want to join team "Let's be nice to the awful bigots"? If I were a mutant I'd be team "Let's show these bastards who runs the world now".
I was thinking the same thing.
Then again, remembering 'magneto was right' when about to watch 'is magneto right?', is this a coincidence?
Michael Berg I don't understand the question too well because of the wording, but, it's probably a coincidence.
Keep in mind Magneto's philosophy as a victim of the holocaust consists of taking inspiration from the Nazi's and applying it to his own group. He detests nazi's yet he agrees with their philosophy. Something to consider if you had mutant powers.
Nazrat84 That is all true mostly depending on which iteration. I was referring to the Magneto from House of M. If I were a mutant I would side with that Magneto, all things considered.
I really wonder how he would feel about the current X-men comics like House of X. It deals with a lot of these issues and has the mutants establish their own nation.
Direct violence against Capitalism is self defence.
Really? Because communism always, every time it is attempted, degenerates into mass murder, gulags, and killing fields.
NutNapalm communism never works, capitalism may not be perfect, but its works
capitalism works for some people, but it's death count is far higher than communism could ever hope to achieve
That’s usually what mass shooters say, yeah.
NutNapalm Just because someone is anti-capitalist doesn't mean they're for soviet Russia. It means they're against oppression. Have you ever heard of pure-democracy, anarchism, democratic socialism, or any other system that involves everybody having equal power and responsibilities? See, it's not just a battle between wage slavery (capitalism) and slavery (communism). What's the point of living if you're stuck making a decision between the two?
You can actually be a valued member of society that has an equal say in every decision made. Why not live in a society where you're free, equal, and valuable?
Watching this in 2020 this video has aged surprisingly well...
Remember you told me to read Bell Hooks, well I read "Feminism is for Everybody"! Thanks for the reco! Could you do a video on the difference between formal and substantive equalittu!
+Jamie Mitchel I just did a Twitter thread on it today coincidentally enough! And yes it will feature in a video at some point
you may not, but I absolutely advocate violence for political purposes. politics itself is violence, it's just called politics when referring to the winning side. i always thought magneto was right.
Professor X could of just single handedly forced people to accept Mutants or anyone who were different.
This is an absolutely excellent video.
As an anarchist and a geek, I am ashamed I never thought about how Charles Xavier actively supports not only the hierarchy of humans on top of mutants, but potentially is protecting the state and capitalism itself. With mutants such as Magneto, Charles Xavier, and Scarlet Witch working together, we could have a post scarcity anarchist economy easily. Hell Scarlet Witch could make it so we've ALWAYS had it that way. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU Olly for making this video and fundamentally changing the way I see the X-Men. I already had sympathy for Magneto as a fellow Jew but now I can see that he is very much a fellow Anarchist in some ways. Well when he's written as a revolutionary for equality, not a Fascist mutant supremacist.
This was a pretty transparent attempt to feed people intersectional feminism. I liked the analysis on Magneto's persona, though.
categorizing the soviet revolution as something bad is false imo. you are overlooking the extreme oppression, poverty and violence under the zar. life conditions and rights drastically improved for the people of russia. not saying that it wasn't a dictatorship that needs to be criticized, but we need to keep things in perspective
It would be a great companion to this video if you and NerdSync explored the actions and motivations of Scott Summers, specifically as he was portrayed between the Messiah Complex and Death of X eras.
Scott from 2012 and beyond was a fascinating exploration of the development of Xavier and Magneto's ideologies.
#cyclopswasright
Good intentions does not guarantee good results. There have been as many dictatorships that were ruled "to promote true values of peace and prosperity" as there were to promote just, being in power. Just look at British vs American colonialism.
The Cold War wasn't all about "I want more power, more control!"... there was a _ton_ of "I need to conquer them *because they are oppressed and I can free them!*" _on both sides_.
(And, you could also argue, like John Green has, that the American revolution was actually really conservative for a "revolution", because the power was still in the hands of rich white men at the end. I would also argue that the Cuban revolution wasn't really that successful, considering it also ended in a dictatorship. Whether he was benevolent or not is not my place to discuss because I have never lived in Cuba, but he was a dictator.)
yep
I'd say John Green was idiotic on that point. Conservatives hold tradition in high regard, and believe that while change happens, changing abruptly can disrupt social order in such a way that it's damaging to society. The American revolution was a period of rapid change where the American system of government moved from a monarchy to a constitutional republic. Seeing as republics were uncommon and generally much smaller than the US, it's hardly a conservative move to change from the most common style of governance to one of the most uncommon styles of governance. To call the revolution conservative because the most powerful group in 95% of the world remained the most powerful group in the US is rather ludicrous.
>Cuban revolution wasn't really that successful, considering it also ended in a dictatorship
It never intended "dictatorship" to be end result. As soon as dictator Batista was removed from power Fidel went to US government to help them build "a real democracy".
Too bad interests of corporations won and he was essentially forced to become a communist to get support from the only other superpower on the planet.
The Cuban Revolution, despite it's problems, did actually bring about a lot of positive change and I'd recommend taking a deeper look at its legacy.
I always think of Lee Kuan Yew.
To be completely fair, the question is "It's Magneto's cause the just one rather than Xavier"
The writers are not revolutionary types and will write him as a madman and obvious villain, even if it's sympathetic and make him do reprehensible stuf that doesn't even further his own agenda so you can't take his side, same thing they did with Killmonger
the "writers" no, the movie director, yes. But Magneto and Killmonger are right we all know that, even though I'm of their ideas are wrong, just the violence they use is show as something wrong in the MOVIES
While not intersectionality in the manner you questioned, real world+mutant, i would say that the Morlocks are a case of in universe intersectionality, mutants who literally live underground, mostly physically deformed, many having been homeless before being gathered together.
The problem with Magneto, X-men and comics in general is that when it comes to revolution and intersectionality is that how well and if it's even dealt with at all depends entirely on the writer. Chris Claremont for example, tends to shine some focus on queer issues/interpretations in his work where this tends to completely disappear if for example Rob Liefeld is borrowing the characters. (Liefeld even tries to argue that Deapool- an explicitly pansexual character- is straight so he's a particularly egregious example but you get the idea)
Lets put it this way.
Humanity has never given Magneto reason to change his mind.
Hearing you talk about direct and systematic violence makes me want to hear what you'd have to say on Ursula Le Guin's 'The word for world is forest'.
The Genosha-like move to relocate all mutants to their own homeland occurs multiple more times in the comics, after the Decimation where most of the world's mutants are cut down from millions to hundreds, Magneto's old asteroid base Asteroid M was placed off the coast of San Francisco as an independent nation, then that fell too, and last I heard the mutants had relocated to Krakoa setting up another mutant-only nation. Though while Utopia was pretty reasonable, the entire setup of the Krakoa settlement is far more... problematic, involving cloning, resurrections and psychic mind-backups alongside more extreme measures that regularly results in members of the team dying and being brought back, all while threatening world governments.
Professor X is the MLK of mutant rights.
Magneto is the Malcom X of mutant rights.
Intersectionality? Dude, it's a comic book where people want to see good guys fighting bad guys. X-Men do enough whining as it is. I'm not really trying to hear 'woe is me' from a black woman that controls the weather.
@josh raid I asked for less whining. But people see what they want to see.
Does that woe is me shit get tired at some point? Who are you? I'm the guy in the pic. I hope you aren't some white guy trying to be woke. You're really barking up the wrong tree if that's the case.
@josh raid if that's not what you want to see there a plenty other comic series where that won't be a problem.this one just isn't the one for you,considering you dislike the underlying themes.
Just wanted to say that I really enjoy your chanel man. Actually very useful for me as well... just got a 2:1 in Philosophy and I found some of your videos a great starting point for research etc. essays. Keep it up mate
+Duffman The First that's awesome, congrats on the 2:1!
I found this relatable to _The Purge: Election Year._ The movie straight up panders to SJW politics while simultaneously keeping the same classical sexist and racist narratives in tact. It made the whole debate about Representations in Media a joke because the two can harmoniously coexist in the same narrative. Just like a black man can be president and we can have a bunch of minority superheroes in comics but if Police are still killing black people in the streets like they have for decades then it's all dog and pony show.
This is why I really don't like the "blue lives matter" trend. While I'm not condoning violence per se, I do think that violence against the police is at least better than the do-nothing response to police violence against law-abiding black people.
I agree that we shouldn't do nothing. However, I don't think murdering innocent cops is ever justified.
***** So does that mean it's okay to kill innocent black people as long as someone else kills them more, and I don't do it that often?
***** Yes, I agree that driving police out isn't the answer. My hope is that violence against police could be a wake-up call to bring about police reforms. I just don't want to see this get derailed into "oh, the poor policemen," and lead to us forgetting about the racially-motivated violence which started the whole problem. That's really all I was trying to say.
Shawn Ravenfire the justified violence? and the BLM did not only attack cops. they attack whites on sight while rioting.
crazycookie9000 but hun cops have been murdered 70% of the time by white males, that was just last year.
It would be interesting for you to go on the net sync podcast. A 1 hour conversation of my 2 favourite you tubers, yes please.
Magneto doesn't just use direct violence against institutions though, he's targeted innocent people who are not part of government or other institutions.
In X2 he literally tried to use Xavier to wipe out every human life on Earth which would be genocide.
At best I think we can say Xavier and Magneto are both right and both wrong and the truth lies somewhere in between.
I think a two pronged approach would be needed. Politcal activism and reform to dismantle prejudiced institutions (which slowly but surely has been happening) whilst still appealing for peace.
Hate after all is guaranteed to breed more hate
He a not so well extremist for selfish reasons, he a villain, he must be punished. He is not get off that easy. Jason Todd was right.
The real conversation should be about dr doom who's country is a eutopia and he just wants to spread that with the world
Logan (2017) is proof that Magneto was right all along.
You should def re-do this video now that X-Men ‘97 has been dropped 👀
Genuinely would love to see this
I mean intersectionality is def a thing lookup northstars childs backstory. I blame disney for shoving it down.
Also for dedicating waaaaay to many comics to queerbaiting.
Loved the episode, subscribed. Make sure you thank Josh for sending me over (thank him for me too).
I'll be going back to the start of your channel, so it'll be a while before I see anything new.
Talk to you soon!
-Shawn
For Magneto being a revolutionary I'd need to think more on that but I would point out where Magneto goes on trial as he tries to work within the system and the UN identifies him as the self proclaimed ruler of the Nation of Mutants and therefore they hold him accountable for the war crimes. Also important for intersectionality I would point to the Morlocks as they point out that while they are all Mutants they don't get to walk around like a normal person like many of the X-Men because they are too noticeably different due to their mutations. But, yeah, otherwise it gets kind of muddied like Scott pointed out
What is more interesting about his story is that it is more connected to Scott and it was magneto's actions that made Cyclops into the man he is now. And even more ironic is that it was Cyclops who gave him the idea for brotherhood of evil mutants. In the one shot comic book X-Men Origins: Cyclops, Scott asks Xavier why he called Magneto an evil mutant and he also asked Erik the same question. Later on he asked him to join Xavier and be part of a Brotherhood. Lastly, what happened at the end of the comic is that he displayed how effective teamwork can be and how a bunch of kids managed to defeat the omega level master of magnetism. And thus born the first generation of "Brotherhood of Evil Mutants", courtesy of Scott's words; comprised of Toad, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver and Mastermind (a group of social outcasts).
Also, the current Magneto's motives are coming from the last words of a terrigen infected Cyclops who requested Emma to not let their species nor their cause die in vain. So that means, the current extremist version is also inspired by Scott as well.
Whenever a sympathetic villain comes along with ideals that clash with society, the writers force them into doing deplorable acts to remind the audience that they shouldn't be siding with them to prevent any inspirations for an actual real life uprising.
I think it’s more like because that character is still hypocritical in their own beliefs. It’s not to keep the audience down, it’s to tell you that these people are “right” but do the exact same things they claim to be against. Uprise if you want, but don’t murder based on your superiority/inferority complex otherwise you’ll be like the last person who saw themselves as a victim while purposely treating others poorly based on that person’s identity that you instantly see them as evil as.
Magneto's ideology in the movies is a direct result of him being a Jewish Holocaust survivor and then experiencing similar government policies attacking him for being a mutant (i.e. mutant registration acts and yellow badges, not being considered human, etc.). He knows the worst possible outcome and his ideology on mutants is prevent that from occurring again. So, I don't understand how you can say intersectionality is avoided when one of the main character's ideology is due to an intersection of identities.
As for the video itself, I think Magneto is *more right* than Xavier but unfortunately his style is a bit too state-socialist / Marxist for me. Thinking he can set himself up as ruler seems implausible to me as a way to fix these issues.
And besides that, although his intentions and character have largely changed Magneto is altogether too quick to kill, claim or desire power and double cross others. He's an unreliable leader, let alone a ruler over 16 million mutants.
Idiot.
We must always strive towards equality.
Urbanization is a great way to do this. At least, from what I've seen. It's not urbanization of cities, but of minds.
There used to be discrimination according to the caste system in India. Which still persists in majority. But , being a first generation in a city, I've seen a different demographic, one deviating from my parent's ideologies. People don't even ask what a person's caste is, unlike my father.
For the question of Casteism's existence in 21st century, I think it's mostly because of the lower caste people being given more allowances, to fight the structural violence. I know people who criticize the Indian Constitution's writer- Dr. Ambedkar. because there's a new turnover of bias. The lower caste people can get into colleges easily.
This is a classic example of how A bias overturned creates a new bias.
Destroying the bias on paper instead of fighting bias by turning it over it's head works! it needs patience. It needs people to forget about any bias.
People will eventually realize that they are surrounded by a variety of people and will adapt towards equality.
#500thComment
I love this channel
Thanks!
I wish I could 'like' this video twice. Once for a well composed argument, the other for a great Fassbender impression.
Magneto is never a villan, and acknowledging him as an anti-hero is equally as important as acknowedge Charles Xavier is and does not consider himself a hero, but merely an educator, a bridge, a mediator. And even no only Professor xavier himself, also beast, wolverine, andmistic has admitedly conveyed Erick Lessner as a necessary evil, a "left hand of god" in the mutant cause, a force to be reckoned giving the peace talk the resemblance of a less costly solution. Also, there is a saying that explain magnetos methodology to me quite simply "a cornered rat fights the cat!"... so... yeah! bye \o
even Star Trek has briefly talked about the fact that violent revolution has ended in positive ways. When Data points out that terrorism has worked at certain points in history Picard says "your confusion is only human"
Uncanny Xmen 274 is one of my fave, narrated frm Magneto's perspective. He's been left in charge of the school for a while... right b4 Xavier's return (he doesn't know that)... right before Jim Lee's X-Men vol 2 (1991) vs Magneto and the Acolytes. He, Nick Fury and Rogue are in the Savage Land and (internally) he's wavering on his promise to Charles to lead the X-Men.
After Logen we know, Magneto was right!
Magneto was Right!
You got a new subscriber, I came here from NerdSync.
+batmanfanforever08 welcome to the little community :)
Philosophy Tube thank you
This video targeted a view that I had seen so much in X-Men comics, and I loved how you handled it. Plus NerdSync is awesome, and this video was hilarious.
The more I think about it the more I tend to agree with Magneto.
The people in power won't want to give that up so will put up barriers to make sure they remain in power therefore not promoting true equality between humans and mutants and they only way that can be 'fixed' is by "Tearing down and start anew"
It's the same viewpoint I have on Fallout New Vegas and the NCR. If the previous government allowed the country to get to the state it was in why should we rebuild government using a structure that is already fundamentally flawed
I like this!!!
You just got a new subscriber
+343burninglegion cool! Welcome to the little community!
Magneto was always right, humans and mutants cannot live together. RISE UP MY BROTHERS!
*facepalm*
This video was awesome! Good job, new fan.
Fantastic video! Subbed :)
+rainkeltoia welcome!
fI love how nearly five years later I can come here from a Jessie Gender video and suddenly see NerdSync and suddenly feel like UA-cam really _is_ a community of creators!
Got this video recommended last night hahaha
I have an issue with the statement that rejecting direction
violence is accepting structural violence. If genoism is being used merely as a
justification for the powers that be to exploited mutants without upsetting the
populous at large, then it seems to me that a solution is trying to get the populous
at large to no longer harbor feelings of genoism and thus make it societally
unacceptable to continue their exploitation. I would instead say that rejecting
direct violence is accepting that one will need to deal the presence of
structural violence in the mid-term, while eroding its social justification in
the long term.
I'm down with Magneto. Xavier is a humie lover.
On the thought that X-men is so vague that it can appeal to anyone.
X-men is , as far as I know. The only thing that my vegan feminist indie friend and my anti immigration nationalist metal friend both like..
For the vegan the mutants are lgbt people, coming out and such. and for the metal it's a story of how the proper elite is opressed by the government?
I know a dozen people have already made this point but I feel like it may be the most important. Wolverine is Canadian. The government that experimented on him was also Canadian.
Two corrections: Genosha is actually a mutant-only island led by magneto until it's destruction, and Wolverine was experimented on by the Canadian government.
Also Magneto is Jewish to touch on the intersectionality comment. His violence and politics stem from his status as a holocaust survivor.
The best image from the movies is in The Last Stand when the mutants ask for his "mark."
Magneto replies, "I have been marked once, my dear, and let me assure you, no needle shall ever touch my skin again." He then shows the tattooed serial number on his arm given to him in a Nazi concentration camp.
And those same camps (except run by Sentinels) were what we saw in the alternate timeline in the Days of Future Past comic.
Magneto is right in the primary and wrong in his secondary. Which makes him a villain with a point.