@@mr.p215 that's a hilariously disingenuous argument. Valve's current market stance and operations are only really possible because the company is owned and directed by a single person. These concerns become extremely important the moment GabeN retires
Seems exactly like usual. Someone from some company accuses Valve of something, Valve does nothing at all, big news article comes out about that company for doing shady and outright anti-consumer stuff.
@@FearTheCaboose1337Oh. You have absolutely no clue how Valve works. No wonder you keep saying things this wrong. Valve is famous for running like almost no other company does. There are no bosses, including Gabe. Everyone is equal and projects only get worked on if enough people at the company agree. Nobody works on something that they don't want to. You should Google their structure because it is actually super interesting.
Valve is scary for their competitors because they're a black box; Valve is a private company, there are no earnings calls, there's no appeasing shareholders, there's no need to chase infinite growth. Other companies don't get that, especially the infinite growth thing. 2020-2022 were good to Valve, numbers going down a bit might not feel good but it doesn't substantially harm Valve outside of maybe reigning in some projects a bit, but it's not like they are spending billions on acquisitions
Valve plays by different rules and worked their way up to where they are over the years. Feels like the comeptition to Valve, or what poses as competition, just wants short-term, quick and easy monopoly themselves instead of Valve.
Came here to post this. It's almost as if trading publicly makes your company doomed to fail because it opens you up to predatory hedge funds and private equity firms that will bleed you dry of every penny you make and then still demand more. Or like with Red Lobster: sell the ground from under your feet and force you to pay rent on it. Regulations? What's that?
@@megamangos7408 it's hard to not do so in the game's industry if you're planning on going for a long period of time. Games cost money, lots of it, and only hedge funds or PoS investors have enough money to keep studios afloat for longer than 1-2 games after a certain point in their growth. People need to be paid, and if a game doesn't perform amazingly, or sells decently enough to somehow fund them until their next game, they studio has to shut down so people can go somewhere else and actually earn a living. For example: the studio behind Wizard with a Gun died because they didn't make enough money, nor managed to find anyone who would provide them with funding, to continue operating until they could finish their next game.
It really undermines the idea that valve specifically needs to find ways to take from others to keep themselves growing in the eyes of investors because they have none, just a constant stream of money from sales that isn’t going to stop. Even if it is potentially applicable to other platforms, Valve? They’re position is so stable they can afford to just sit unchanging and they’ll stay profitable
Valve = amazon of gaming. Handful of capitalists at the top of a proprietary monopoly position marketplace leeching masses of wealth from the work of all below them for no work themselves via dividends and rents. The problem is not Valve, it is capitalism itself that created such resultant debauched symptoms via its rewards and incentives.
@@ChrisSmith-mi2zo Could probably do another wordplay with "fencing". Putting up fencing for animals, acting as a middleman for buying/selling stolen goods, and the sword fighting style all have potential meanings in the scenario.
@@LuizAlexPhoenix Yes, he did quite well as a general and later as an emergency backup emperor after Germanicus died. At least until he hid himself away on his private pervert island, leaving Rome in the hands of the ancient worlds equivalent of the hubristic Taco Bell manager.
@@hazukichanx408 ultimately its a problem of "it was going to happen eventually, and right now im glad its valve" Doing regulation on valve alone, especially when other targets are far more egregious in their practices and far more overwhelming in their power, makes for a really hard lesson in trying to convince people its the system thats the problem. Valve may be contributing to it, hell valve may be the reason people arent currently on the streets right now, but the second problem is convincing people that its solveable at all. Its an uphill battle going from "everything is crap and im somehow still one of the lucky ones" to "i can help people and i have the power to do it" to "i cant be the main character" to "i cant solve anything" to "goddamnit im going to try anyways". The games industry problem of corporate megatyrants is kinda the EVERYTHING problem. If we didnt change how we view ALL corporations and not the scapegoat of the month that we can directly see in front of us, it was going to happen eventually, and right now im glad its valve.
Interesting point on the corporations "are under an immense pressure to show their investors that they can outgrow the overall industry trend" Mr. Stewart, but there is a little mistake there Valve is NOT publicly traded! So it has no need to show growth, it needs to earn enough to pay the monthly fees and it's golden. If they were to make all the money in the world they would celebrate rather than panic on how are they going to make more money on the following quarter. And that is why Valve can afford to make Steam a good product.
It's also the reason why the rumors of Microsoft planning to buy Valve are terrifying, if that were to happen, Steam would be under a publicly traded corporation and the growth argument starts to apply.
@@gustavokupcevich7895 At the same time, common sense chimes in to tell you that it probably won't ever happen unless things go extremely badly for Valve already. They are already sitting on a golden goose, they don't need a devil's loan.
@@gustavokupcevich7895 While true, buying valve is going to much much worse then activision for microsoft. It's horrifically expensive in ways that Activision can only dream about,.
@@simplysmiley4670 And what if Gabe Newell decides to take early retirement, dies suddenly, or just decides he doesn't want to be in the industry anymore? The PC Gaming market rests upon a single load-bearing pillar called Steam, and sure, it isn't creaking right now, its made of some incredibly strong materials in fact, but we can't expect that to always be the case. Hi-Rez's CEO is an idiot. But even idiots can see how dangerous Valve's position in the industry is.
@@gustavokupcevich7895 But at the same time - Valve is not publicly traded, so there aren't any investors to force Valve to sell if Microsoft makes an offer. Gabe Newell can keep telling Phil Spencer to go pound sand.
Sheap-shearing vs. sheep spearing is a perfect analogy. The thing about shearing sheep is that sheep want to be sheared. The wool can build up too much and make them uncomfortable. But shearing them takes work and patience. You gotta wait for the wool to grow back. If you spear them you may get a quick bonus (the meat), but you lose any future earning from that sheep, and if you do it too much, you run out of sheep to shear. In the same vein, customers want to do business. We want games to alleviate boredom, and we want convenience so there are fewer barriers between us and the games. We joke about Steam sales taking all our money, but when Valve whips out the shears, we all happily line up to be shorn, because experience has taught us that Valve is going to put in the work to do the job right. I agree that there needs to be competition, but very few companies want to put in the amount of time and effort Valve does.
@@PopcornMax179 Just like the sheep were bred that way long before the current farmers were born, customer psychology was in place long before Valve was founded.
@@PopcornMax179 Absolutely. People give other AAA companies shit for battle passes and micro transactions. And it's like, man, did you forget that value was selling keys and crates in dota, Counter strike and Team fortress 2?
@@crushycrawfishy1765 I consider microtransactions, at best, a sour taste in an otherwise fine experience. However, there are two main kinds. 1- Pure cosmetics. The extras are purely cosmetic items, such as skins, item paintjobs, maybe a useless pet to follow you around. When you buy the game, all the gameplay comes included and nothing engaging is held back. Anything locked behind progression can be reasonably obtained via just playing the game. This is the end of the scale that's more sour than problematic. 2- Paywalled Progression. Portions of the game (which you paid full price for) are locked behind either an up front paywall, usually in the form of DLC that was actually just cut whole cloth from the original finished product, or an in-game progression that is technically possible to complete without spending money but is not practically doable (see: SW:Battlefront 2 on launch). Valve's games fit firmly in the former. The closest they come to category 2 is TF2, and every gun in that game can be unlocked by simply playing. It also includes a reasonable scrapping and crafting system to turn duplicates into other weapons or even cosmetics (which can also drop randomly).
@@crushycrawfishy1765 I really am glad none of their library ever appealed to me. Because that meant by the time I was an adult I could see through all the lootbox and gacha nonsense as it started to rise in popularity. I love Steam to death for the ease of finding and buying indie games though.
Never trust a CEO. Business are NEVER your friend. Companies exist for one reason; to make as much money as possible, by any means possible, with the fewest costs possible. And CEOs exist to make sure thats happening. Reward ones that are well behaved when they dont need to be. But NEVER believe a CEO or their company is your friend. They are you gold digger. Nothing more.
And not actively fucking over the consumer at every chance possible just to squeeze that little bit more money to please shareholders' and executives' vision of infinite growth and profits for as little effort as humanly possible (from them).
Yeah, that's the thing. You want there not to be a monopoly? Then provide at least as good of a service as Steam, which is hard. At least do better than what the Epic Games Store did and launch incomplete while still getting exclusives
@@simplysmiley4670 Never ever forget, that gabe actually did try to squeeze people for money. Never forget Value tried to implement piad mods, wherein what was once free, now has a cost and valve takes a cut. They did it once, they will try it again.
@@crushycrawfishy1765 and the fact that it took a lawsuit by the Australian government to implement any kind of refund policy. Valve is not as perfect as people think they are.
Valve and Gabe have become basically a monopoly in terms of PC game distribution through the sheer fact that the customer feels safe buying from them. Even when they stumbled with the introduction of Early Access they've consistently proven themselves to be the only company that plays the long game with a customer-focused model of business. The fact that it's so obviously worked for them and every other company just throws money at the wall because the investors and executives are their target market and not the actual customers buying their games only highlights the difference and I hope after Gave leaves Valve keeps this ethos because no amount of short-term gains can replace the consumer putting their trust in you.
They have the greatest advantage. Gable owns most of the stock and has absolute power over the company, the other companies have to try to please their investors with a win-now attitude
The key to Steam’s success is Gabe’s observation that piracy isn’t primarily caused by cost avoidance, it’s caused by inconvenience and barriers to access. He made a system that streamlined access to games at a time when most publishers were of the mindset of “how many different levels of copyright protection hoops can we make our customers jump through?”
@@alexgrunde6682 And then everybody and their brother decided that they needed to force shitty copy protection onto the Steam versions, too, up to and including forcing you to use their shitty launcher in addition to Steam's okay one.
@@alexgrunde6682 I love Steam as a Linux desktop user, because I buy a game, download it, install it, and it runs flawlessly out of the box. I have been using Linux off and on for the past 20 years or so, on a permanent basis over the last five or six, and I can say it never used to be like this. Unless it was a native Linux game, there was at least a minimum of messing around with WINE. Now, that all happens automagically through Steam. Linux gaming is the most convenient it has EVER been, and it's all thanks to Steam.
Sounds like a version of a fallacy I keep in mind a lot these days, Original Position Fallacy. The thought that a system or rule is "fair" on the assumption that you'll be the one on the advantageous side of it. As you point out, it seems like he's complaining not because it's unfair that someone is king of the hill, but because they're not the one's on that hill. To him, the system is only unfair because he's not the one at the top of that hill.
He's upset that he was first but a company with lack of financial pressure and general success in game development and creative game design is pursuing a similar field as them, one which is their ONLY, barely-living specialty. Also yes, I'm agreeing, I just wanted to put it into similar words, same outlook
Not a day goes by i'm not reminded of The Hipcrime Vocab from Stand on Zanzibar: Unfair: Term applied to advantages enjoyed by other people which we tried to cheat them out of and didnt manage Logic: The prinicple governing human intellection. It's nature may be deduced from examining the following propositions, both of which are held by human beings to be true, and often by the same people. "I cant, so you mustn't." and "I can, but you mustn't."
That sounds like the typical complaint about game balance. The devs are only considered to be doing a good job if the author's preferred class is the one getting buffed.
Can't agree with you more. They follow trends to cash grab on any hype remaining and neglect all their previous titles. Not to mention Smite 2 disaster that is unfolding
As someone who adores Smite it's really upsetting seeing it run by such a shit company. I feel like they used to be a smaller company doing their best but they've ruined every chance they've had to make their games big
@@ZeFluffyKnightTo be completely fair, Hi-Rez dumped an incredible amount of resources into Paladins. The two big strikes against it was that (1)it came out concurrently with Overwatch and could never shake the accusations it was a copy, in spite of them starting development before Blizzard, and (2) the dev team regularly made utterly absurd choices/ directions during the open beta that would cause disgruntled portions of their playerbase to abandon the game.
@@furrymessiah And yet, Paladins is a dogshit version of Overwatch. I've played both and I'll tell you, I only play Paladins because Blizzard shit the bucket so hard that I finally caved to a friend's requests. That game is full of hackers and they try to suck every ounce of cash out of their playerbase that they can. I only play every once in a while until we encounter a hacker (usually that only takes a game or two) and then I remember why I didn't play it anymore and I have to wait until I forget that the game has more hackers than a DEFCON convention
One thing I love about Cold Take is that no two episodes feel the same, visual-wise. This one has a weird, almost punk-ish aesthetic, another is pure gameplay, a third is Frost in a Sombrero... gives each episode a totally different vibe.
Valve is a private company and doesn't have to play the "doing everything to please the shareholders" game that other big corpos use to guide their garbage behavior.
Yeah, and Timmy Tencent said the same thing. Valve is the dominant player in the PC games market because they're the best, and they do right by their customers. Instead of seething with jealousy, why not try making your service better so you can actually compete?
I'm just thinking that this is a perfect situation for a - "Tell me you don't play video games, without telling me you don't play video games." When the best description of an enjoyable game experience (the 'core game loop') that a major decision maker can come up with is "sprinkled with magic fairy dust", you know your game company has leadership issues. Thanks for the video Frost!
It really does feel like back in the PS2 or even tbe Xbox 360 era they would have died with their track record. But they have managed to keep going somehow.
@@haruhirogrimgar6047 It's mindboggling to me. Like they are somehow still afloat like How??? lol The amount of Failures they had over the past 10 years is insane. But maybe that's why they are betting right now their all on Smite 2. Could imagine that when Smite 2 also fails like so many of their games that they file for bankruptcy.
They've been seemingly trying their best to make the studio fail as well over that time it seems. It's unreal how many games they've launched and botched over the past 10 years but managed to survive from the sheer amount of SMITE whales.
Valve is OP because its not publicly traded. Not having to cater to the voracious appetite of investors allows a company to make smart long-term decisions instead of fucking over its user base.
Funny how many comments there are of "I'll never forgive Hi-Rez for ruining [game]" but each time it's a different game. They really have a perfect track record of running each and every one of their IPs into the ground.
unleashing frost was second winds smartest decision. the dude is cooking. have not seen any videos like cold take before or since. the vibe, the voice, the variance. good stuff!
The workers at Valve are not infallible, they have not made a perfect system, they've just done a better job than anyone else thus far and we thank them and hope that continues.
I'm not actually worried because the reason Steam works is because it's a good service. There's alternatives just as friendly as Steam at this point, so if Steam really turned into the Epic game store it would lose that advantage.
@hosvet_animation that was true of Reddit, Xitter, etc. too. Don't assume that just because a service is good today that this will be true forever or that one need not be conscious of that service's ability to oppress. As Frost says in the video: there's a point to that, but Hi-Rez should take a look in the mirror before making it
The thing is, what would happen is nothing. The company's got a pretty uncommon structure, basically democracy. There are checks in place to make sure nobody can suddenly choose violence on the consumer, even Gabe.
He took literally the same position as Tim Sweeney took. Trying to look like the good guy, then trying to replace Valve with the end goal being him at the throne instead of Gabe and doing twice as many bad things.
Success is not illegal. Epic had a chance to become a real competitor, but Tim couldn't help being an overgrown child. GOG has a self-imposed handicap. EA, Rockstar, and Ubisoft's stores are not worth the storage space they occupy, and the company names attached to them are like a malignant growth. Meanwhile, Valve has made strides in Linux gaming (and upstream Wine) and gained the loyalty of the entire ecosystem. If the industry has to be a quasi-monopoly, we could do far worse than Valve.
Valve are not great and are complete screw ups in ways that are utterly baffling and incomprehensible for a company as wealthy as they are, but they are significantly better than the alternatives. They occupy a similar space as UA-cam funnily enough, and if one wants an example of how bad things could be one needs look no further.
Don't forget; Epic kept REFUSING to add a shopping cart until it bit them in the ass with their customers bank accounts triggering false positives when people tried to buy multiple games during discount time!
what a damn shame. The consumer loves the corporation that doesn’t abuses them, response to problems, and punish them properly when the consumer messes up
Yeah hate to say it but I trust valve over the other companies when it comes to game launching, because the other choices are uplay which is known to take games that you paid for away from you, or the tencent owned epic games.
I don't think it's just giving what they want but what they need. Sure, obviously Valve would never do anything if there isn't profit, but most of what they do, benefits people at the end.
Whenever I think of how to run a "good" corporation, I'm reminded of a metaphor from a book by Sir Terry of Pratchett. He's talking about taxation, but the same principle applies to business, and it goes a little something like this: "it's like being a dairy farmer: the art is working out how to extract the maximum amount of milk, for the minimum amount of moo." Basically, keep your customers well fed and looked-after, and they'll happily let you get rich without feeling the sudden need to kick your mansion's door in and run you through with a pitchfork. Seems to be how Steam operates, and I can see why that upsets some corpo types who prefer the" grind your customers under your jackboot until their skulls pop, and then move on to the next market" approach.
@@yourself1210 i think the reason they dont fix tf2 is its way too old and has so little money left in it, even if it did became playable again. the best they could do is give it a source2 remake "sequal" like they did with counter strike, and even that didnt go that great considering it lost a good chunk of its content and gained bigger cheating issues (hey, maybe that "deadlock" game is a project name for tf3, wouldnt that be funny)
they broke tf2 over their knee 8yrs ago bc they felt pressured to compete with overwatch by copying the modern format: (essay ahead, im a redditor at heart) switch map after x rounds - even though tf2 rounds can go anywhere from 90 seconds to literal DAYS party queue - bc god forbid u play against ur friends and have fun moments of rivalry, u gotta turn everything into a mind-numbing, antisocial grind for le epic W. not to mention that the max party size is 6, which is half of the max team size of 12, meaning u and ur dkhead buddies can votekick anyone u dont like for whatever reason. and ofc, this makes it EXTREMELY easy for bots to do their thing and a decade later, people are starting to understand the corrosive effect this format has on team games, especially when the game structure itself doesn't need it (i.e. not a moba). when u have static servers that rotate maps on a timer, you're not pounding ur desk trying to get to the end and move on to the next lobby of faceless usernames who may as well be bots, you're chillin with a group of people that you start to recognize and enjoying the gameplay together. (but sometimes that group of ppl sucks, or they're just annoying like me, which is the big upside of the modern conveyor belt method)
They did a vibe check with the Jungle Inferno update to feel out what TF2s capacity for growth was and they said themselves they where very disappointed. TF2 fell drastically behind Counter Strike and DOTA years ago, and with something like Overwatch counting their monthly users in the millions, even at a low point in popularity, TF2 just isn't going to be the competitor to put money behind. The amount of money and talent needed to revive Team Fortress as a brand, is just as easily spent on a new ip ultimately
Remember when Hi-Rez lied about the Global agenda servers being "damaged in an office move"? they magically were found undamaged, fully working and configured, and able to play, a year ish? later. GA died because they begged and pleaded with Hi-Rez for a sequel. they instead put more shovelware on the "premium cosmetics" shop, and promised a sequel for *years*. I wish they'd cough up the Tribes IP to someone who would actually use it. and, for those interested, the GA servers are still up, puttering along with no one on them if you want some nostalgia.
GA died because of asymmetrical rewards and lack of content. I don't know if they had a whole bunch of developers leave right before launch but that was truly the last time that high rez did anything original.
Hi-Rez's entire business strat for the last decade and a half seems to have been: Make a core concept thats interesting, give it just enough budget to get it out the door, and then throttle all future support for it once its had enough sales. Ive gone through this twice now with Tribes Ascend and Paladins, not getting me a third time
Valve doesn't have a walled garden. It just has a really nice garden. If someone makes somewhere nicer, you're more than welcome to take a stroll there too. Take a second to consider why monopolies are a problem and you'll realise more of those problems apply to Valves competetors, monopoly or not, than Valve themselves.
but have you stayed in the garden so long that vines started binding you? vines such as an extensive friend list, a large library full of unplayed titles, a nice view of the many clouds(aves). should the trees become rotten or a nicer smaller garden pop up can you cut the vines so easily?
Valve is so spooked by Microsoft closing the gates to their playground, Valve decided to have a serious look at that Penguin playing on all those clouds!
@@LonelyAncient You have just described a general problem, this is not Valve specific. If the others had a good garden, some vines might grow too to pull me, but currently they are so rotten a gust of wind blows them right off of me.
Valve has a walled garden, its just that its customers have built the wall themselves by raging at any company that insists on using their own launcher instead of relying entirely on Steam.
Who's to say he might not turn on us? There'll come a point when Valve is no longer beholden to us, the consumers, and we won't know how close we were to that point 10 years ago until the day after it's too late.
@@128thMic before even that there are times where Gabe stepped in to oppose some predatory tactics, for example the Dota battlepass being too grindy. not all valve employees would be benevolent given the power.
5:26 "... under immense pressure to show their investors that they can outgrow the overall industry trend." If he's talking about Valve there, Valve is a private company (unless I missed something somewhere) and all the "shares" are owned internally. IOW, there are no Valve "investors" and Valve doesn't have to chase short-term gains. They only have to pay attention to the actual good of the company and their customers.
reminds me of that one 4chan post explaining in tinfoil hat terms how the whole game industry is held on by Gabe still being involved in Valve and the moment he dies is when everything come crashing down, the guy might be crazy but each day that passes I believe a bit ore that he might not be wrong
This is just another Silicon Valley complaint about how a successful business model couldn't be copied and then profiteered upon. They're only doing that because they were unable to successfully enshittify Valve yet.
God damn somethings in the boardrooms water supply havin all these highrankers line-up to clown themselves on the global stage this year. But I won't complain.
it's called fear. if other studios can make good games and then they cant make the line go up they need a scapegoat or they be removed from their position by the stock owners. no more multi million bonuses while people get laid off.
Not to mention the atrocious monetization Hi-Rez has implemented over the years. It used to be somewhat reasonable, now there are battle passes on top of seasonal FOMA bundles on top of randomized chests as the only way to get some skins. Absolutely zero sympathy for Hi-Rez.
@@breadguyyy And at the same time, Hi-rez monetization really isn't as bad as people make it out to be. All gods current and future for one low price is perfect and it was pretty generous with it's freemium money. I got a bunch of skins without ever slapping down money.
Tribes was the first game that I really enjoyed whose servers were shut down by the publisher about 1-2 years after its launch, rendering it unplayable. Ignoring all its other issues, I wanna thank HiRez for teaching me to avoid Games As A Service early.
being shafted by Valve is literally just a lackluster summer sale/winter sale/whatever. Valve wins the competition while sitting on the couch eating cheez doodles
Simple solution to Valve's, "Monopoly" here are the basic steps. 1. Make a store. 2. Make it have review system, shopping cart, discussion forums, etc. Overall useful features for your customers. 3. Profit.
@@peterclarke7006 If you're going to beat them, successfully copying what Steam is already doing is your *starting* point. You're going to have to do better in some, or likely multiple, areas. It took Epic literal months to get a working *shopping cart* for their *digital storefront* , something that should have been present at the start of development. If you can't get something that basic correct right out the gate, the whole endeavour is just doomed.
Stewart is stuck in his own personal hell with that whole stockholder pie size idea. Everyone's fighting over the pie, but Valve took the pie tin. They're not on the stock market. They don't need to abide by promises to investors in any way similar to HiRez. Valve knows all they need is the pie tin when someone wants to bake another.
They had so many opportunities and yet failed so miserably. Like they can't recognize that they have gold in their hands. Tribes was pretty unique and fun game, Smite is pretty unique, early versions Paladins where you had random cards dealt was pretty unique and fun. And they pretty much ruined them all. It's like with EA with Anthem, awesome theme for the game, practically unlimited potential for customization, skins (and selling those) and classes, great world, fun gameplay. They had insanely good basis for a great game and somehow managed to ruin it.
Remember when the devs behind PubG claimed Epic stole a bunch of insights from their game to make the Fortnite Battle Royale? And Epic basically confirmed it? Then said "what are you going to do about it, we're still supporting them and still letting them be on our store - good deals for devs there, BTW, trust us!" It's not a claim that isn't rooted in reality - it happens. However, the fact that he's claiming it's going to happen before it has just because his project is floundering says a lot, and it's not what he thinks he's saying.
You highlighted it perfectly. If Valve were to go rogue tomorrow it'd be devastating for consumers. But the sheer backlash that'd create in turn would obliterate that company in a decades' time, if that. Fact of the matter is for damn near two decades Valve has focused on consumer satisfaction and have thus cemented themselves as the games distributor everyone trusts. An unassailable position for a company to have in this business.
A thief believes that all people steal. So if a guy running a service that gives him seriously asymmetrical information accuses someone else in a similar situation of exploiting that kind of info, he's definitely either doing it himself or making excuses to justify what he plans to do later. Also, as he points out, a platform holder like Valve makes money off of other companies' games with significantly less risk, so why would Valve bother to try poaching his players?
The funniest thing to me is how much money a lot of publishers are spending to *acquire* various game development teams and studios, and Steam is just like "here's an open store stall for you to sell your games" and people pay Valve to join the platform.
This, in a roundabout way, explains some of why we never got Half-Life 3. If a company that made games isn't allowed to make games (without complaint) because they also sell games, then even the act of the game company making games only invites criticism.
While I do think healthy competition is important, the problem in this case is that the competition has to actually do the work before they complain. I mean, Why is it I can play Valve's Team Fortress 2 natively on Linux, but I need valve's own proton to play smite on the same Linux computer, or can't even play Fortnite at all? That's like Company B complaining that Company A is "too overpowered", when Company B don't even make any effort to serve (Let's say, for example) the US market. And In order for the customer in the US to get any purchases from Company B, The customer needs the channels from Company A to get to Company B. Company B has no legal restrictions on opening up a US branch, they just don't want to.
7:32 The guy is projecting. He's doing the dirty trick, so assumes that Valve is too. As the saying goes, "Thieves believe everyone steals".
Agreed, but at the same time he has a point. Valve could do this. We don't really have any evidence that they are, but it is a valid concern
@@FearTheCaboose1337 the USA might also decide to press the nuclear button tommorow for the lols but we arent here discussing that.
@@mr.p215 that's a hilariously disingenuous argument. Valve's current market stance and operations are only really possible because the company is owned and directed by a single person. These concerns become extremely important the moment GabeN retires
Seems exactly like usual. Someone from some company accuses Valve of something, Valve does nothing at all, big news article comes out about that company for doing shady and outright anti-consumer stuff.
@@FearTheCaboose1337Oh. You have absolutely no clue how Valve works. No wonder you keep saying things this wrong.
Valve is famous for running like almost no other company does. There are no bosses, including Gabe. Everyone is equal and projects only get worked on if enough people at the company agree. Nobody works on something that they don't want to.
You should Google their structure because it is actually super interesting.
Valve is scary for their competitors because they're a black box; Valve is a private company, there are no earnings calls, there's no appeasing shareholders, there's no need to chase infinite growth. Other companies don't get that, especially the infinite growth thing. 2020-2022 were good to Valve, numbers going down a bit might not feel good but it doesn't substantially harm Valve outside of maybe reigning in some projects a bit, but it's not like they are spending billions on acquisitions
Valve plays by different rules and worked their way up to where they are over the years.
Feels like the comeptition to Valve, or what poses as competition, just wants short-term, quick and easy monopoly themselves instead of Valve.
Came here to post this. It's almost as if trading publicly makes your company doomed to fail because it opens you up to predatory hedge funds and private equity firms that will bleed you dry of every penny you make and then still demand more. Or like with Red Lobster: sell the ground from under your feet and force you to pay rent on it.
Regulations? What's that?
@@megamangos7408 it's hard to not do so in the game's industry if you're planning on going for a long period of time. Games cost money, lots of it, and only hedge funds or PoS investors have enough money to keep studios afloat for longer than 1-2 games after a certain point in their growth. People need to be paid, and if a game doesn't perform amazingly, or sells decently enough to somehow fund them until their next game, they studio has to shut down so people can go somewhere else and actually earn a living.
For example: the studio behind Wizard with a Gun died because they didn't make enough money, nor managed to find anyone who would provide them with funding, to continue operating until they could finish their next game.
It really undermines the idea that valve specifically needs to find ways to take from others to keep themselves growing in the eyes of investors because they have none, just a constant stream of money from sales that isn’t going to stop. Even if it is potentially applicable to other platforms, Valve? They’re position is so stable they can afford to just sit unchanging and they’ll stay profitable
Valve = amazon of gaming. Handful of capitalists at the top of a proprietary monopoly position marketplace leeching masses of wealth from the work of all below them for no work themselves via dividends and rents. The problem is not Valve, it is capitalism itself that created such resultant debauched symptoms via its rewards and incentives.
That comparison between sheering and spearing sheep for wool is both funny and accurate.
I think there's a "fleecing" joke in there somewhere too, but I can't find it.
@@ChrisSmith-mi2zo Could probably do another wordplay with "fencing". Putting up fencing for animals, acting as a middleman for buying/selling stolen goods, and the sword fighting style all have potential meanings in the scenario.
@@SimuLordThanks. Couldn't remember which emperor said it.
@@LuizAlexPhoenix Yes, he did quite well as a general and later as an emergency backup emperor after Germanicus died. At least until he hid himself away on his private pervert island, leaving Rome in the hands of the ancient worlds equivalent of the hubristic Taco Bell manager.
@@ChrisSmith-mi2zo A like for the attempt.
"You're upset that it wasn't you. It shouldn't be anyone" Goddamn Frost, exactly right.
the problem is that the first part of the sentence is used to silence anyone that wants to talk about the second part
@@m.b.7560 and that'd be a problem if we weren't talking about a ceo who is actively attempting to be the first part
@@hazukichanx408 ultimately its a problem of "it was going to happen eventually, and right now im glad its valve"
Doing regulation on valve alone, especially when other targets are far more egregious in their practices and far more overwhelming in their power, makes for a really hard lesson in trying to convince people its the system thats the problem. Valve may be contributing to it, hell valve may be the reason people arent currently on the streets right now, but the second problem is convincing people that its solveable at all.
Its an uphill battle going from
"everything is crap and im somehow still one of the lucky ones"
to "i can help people and i have the power to do it"
to "i cant be the main character"
to "i cant solve anything"
to "goddamnit im going to try anyways".
The games industry problem of corporate megatyrants is kinda the EVERYTHING problem. If we didnt change how we view ALL corporations and not the scapegoat of the month that we can directly see in front of us, it was going to happen eventually, and right now im glad its valve.
Interesting point on the corporations "are under an immense pressure to show their investors that they can outgrow the overall industry trend" Mr. Stewart, but there is a little mistake there
Valve is NOT publicly traded!
So it has no need to show growth, it needs to earn enough to pay the monthly fees and it's golden.
If they were to make all the money in the world they would celebrate rather than panic on how are they going to make more money on the following quarter.
And that is why Valve can afford to make Steam a good product.
It's also the reason why the rumors of Microsoft planning to buy Valve are terrifying, if that were to happen, Steam would be under a publicly traded corporation and the growth argument starts to apply.
@@gustavokupcevich7895 At the same time, common sense chimes in to tell you that it probably won't ever happen unless things go extremely badly for Valve already.
They are already sitting on a golden goose, they don't need a devil's loan.
@@gustavokupcevich7895 While true, buying valve is going to much much worse then activision for microsoft. It's horrifically expensive in ways that Activision can only dream about,.
@@simplysmiley4670 And what if Gabe Newell decides to take early retirement, dies suddenly, or just decides he doesn't want to be in the industry anymore? The PC Gaming market rests upon a single load-bearing pillar called Steam, and sure, it isn't creaking right now, its made of some incredibly strong materials in fact, but we can't expect that to always be the case.
Hi-Rez's CEO is an idiot. But even idiots can see how dangerous Valve's position in the industry is.
@@gustavokupcevich7895 But at the same time - Valve is not publicly traded, so there aren't any investors to force Valve to sell if Microsoft makes an offer. Gabe Newell can keep telling Phil Spencer to go pound sand.
Sheap-shearing vs. sheep spearing is a perfect analogy. The thing about shearing sheep is that sheep want to be sheared. The wool can build up too much and make them uncomfortable. But shearing them takes work and patience. You gotta wait for the wool to grow back. If you spear them you may get a quick bonus (the meat), but you lose any future earning from that sheep, and if you do it too much, you run out of sheep to shear. In the same vein, customers want to do business. We want games to alleviate boredom, and we want convenience so there are fewer barriers between us and the games. We joke about Steam sales taking all our money, but when Valve whips out the shears, we all happily line up to be shorn, because experience has taught us that Valve is going to put in the work to do the job right. I agree that there needs to be competition, but very few companies want to put in the amount of time and effort Valve does.
Sheep have been bred to overgrow wool. Have Valve bred their customers to overspend money 🤔
@@PopcornMax179 Just like the sheep were bred that way long before the current farmers were born, customer psychology was in place long before Valve was founded.
@@PopcornMax179 Absolutely. People give other AAA companies shit for battle passes and micro transactions. And it's like, man, did you forget that value was selling keys and crates in dota, Counter strike and Team fortress 2?
@@crushycrawfishy1765 I consider microtransactions, at best, a sour taste in an otherwise fine experience. However, there are two main kinds.
1- Pure cosmetics. The extras are purely cosmetic items, such as skins, item paintjobs, maybe a useless pet to follow you around. When you buy the game, all the gameplay comes included and nothing engaging is held back. Anything locked behind progression can be reasonably obtained via just playing the game. This is the end of the scale that's more sour than problematic.
2- Paywalled Progression. Portions of the game (which you paid full price for) are locked behind either an up front paywall, usually in the form of DLC that was actually just cut whole cloth from the original finished product, or an in-game progression that is technically possible to complete without spending money but is not practically doable (see: SW:Battlefront 2 on launch).
Valve's games fit firmly in the former. The closest they come to category 2 is TF2, and every gun in that game can be unlocked by simply playing. It also includes a reasonable scrapping and crafting system to turn duplicates into other weapons or even cosmetics (which can also drop randomly).
@@crushycrawfishy1765 I really am glad none of their library ever appealed to me. Because that meant by the time I was an adult I could see through all the lootbox and gacha nonsense as it started to rise in popularity.
I love Steam to death for the ease of finding and buying indie games though.
Never trust a CEO wearing a Robin Hood costume.
Never Trust a CEO. Fixed it
I’d say never trust a CEO of a public company… but plenty of private orgs have asshole CEOs too, lol
Including valve
Or a Robin Hood tshirt
Never trust a CEO. Business are NEVER your friend. Companies exist for one reason; to make as much money as possible, by any means possible, with the fewest costs possible. And CEOs exist to make sure thats happening.
Reward ones that are well behaved when they dont need to be. But NEVER believe a CEO or their company is your friend. They are you gold digger. Nothing more.
turns out, the trick to being overpowered is providing a damn good service that people actually want
And not actively fucking over the consumer at every chance possible just to squeeze that little bit more money to please shareholders' and executives' vision of infinite growth and profits for as little effort as humanly possible (from them).
Turns out it’s using mono politics practices to stiffen competition and screw over the consumers.
Yeah, that's the thing. You want there not to be a monopoly? Then provide at least as good of a service as Steam, which is hard. At least do better than what the Epic Games Store did and launch incomplete while still getting exclusives
@@simplysmiley4670 Never ever forget, that gabe actually did try to squeeze people for money. Never forget Value tried to implement piad mods, wherein what was once free, now has a cost and valve takes a cut. They did it once, they will try it again.
@@crushycrawfishy1765 and the fact that it took a lawsuit by the Australian government to implement any kind of refund policy. Valve is not as perfect as people think they are.
Valve and Gabe have become basically a monopoly in terms of PC game distribution through the sheer fact that the customer feels safe buying from them. Even when they stumbled with the introduction of Early Access they've consistently proven themselves to be the only company that plays the long game with a customer-focused model of business. The fact that it's so obviously worked for them and every other company just throws money at the wall because the investors and executives are their target market and not the actual customers buying their games only highlights the difference and I hope after Gave leaves Valve keeps this ethos because no amount of short-term gains can replace the consumer putting their trust in you.
They have the greatest advantage.
Gable owns most of the stock and has absolute power over the company, the other companies have to try to please their investors with a win-now attitude
The key to Steam’s success is Gabe’s observation that piracy isn’t primarily caused by cost avoidance, it’s caused by inconvenience and barriers to access. He made a system that streamlined access to games at a time when most publishers were of the mindset of “how many different levels of copyright protection hoops can we make our customers jump through?”
@@alexgrunde6682 And then everybody and their brother decided that they needed to force shitty copy protection onto the Steam versions, too, up to and including forcing you to use their shitty launcher in addition to Steam's okay one.
They're so ridiculously on it that they started selling literal hardcore pornography and no one batted an eye.
@@alexgrunde6682 I love Steam as a Linux desktop user, because I buy a game, download it, install it, and it runs flawlessly out of the box. I have been using Linux off and on for the past 20 years or so, on a permanent basis over the last five or six, and I can say it never used to be like this. Unless it was a native Linux game, there was at least a minimum of messing around with WINE. Now, that all happens automagically through Steam. Linux gaming is the most convenient it has EVER been, and it's all thanks to Steam.
Sounds like a version of a fallacy I keep in mind a lot these days, Original Position Fallacy. The thought that a system or rule is "fair" on the assumption that you'll be the one on the advantageous side of it. As you point out, it seems like he's complaining not because it's unfair that someone is king of the hill, but because they're not the one's on that hill. To him, the system is only unfair because he's not the one at the top of that hill.
He's upset that he was first but a company with lack of financial pressure and general success in game development and creative game design is pursuing a similar field as them, one which is their ONLY, barely-living specialty.
Also yes, I'm agreeing, I just wanted to put it into similar words, same outlook
Not a day goes by i'm not reminded of The Hipcrime Vocab from Stand on Zanzibar:
Unfair: Term applied to advantages enjoyed by other people which we tried to cheat them out of and didnt manage
Logic: The prinicple governing human intellection. It's nature may be deduced from examining the following propositions, both of which are held by human beings to be true, and often by the same people. "I cant, so you mustn't." and "I can, but you mustn't."
That sounds like the typical complaint about game balance. The devs are only considered to be doing a good job if the author's preferred class is the one getting buffed.
That's a fallacy? Sounds like regular ol' hypocrisy to me.
HiRez is a garbage company and treats their employees and their IPs like dogshit, Stuart can embarrass himself all he likes
Can't agree with you more. They follow trends to cash grab on any hype remaining and neglect all their previous titles. Not to mention Smite 2 disaster that is unfolding
As someone who adores Smite it's really upsetting seeing it run by such a shit company. I feel like they used to be a smaller company doing their best but they've ruined every chance they've had to make their games big
Can't wait for half life 3 and tf2 getting fixed
@@ZeFluffyKnightTo be completely fair, Hi-Rez dumped an incredible amount of resources into Paladins. The two big strikes against it was that (1)it came out concurrently with Overwatch and could never shake the accusations it was a copy, in spite of them starting development before Blizzard, and (2) the dev team regularly made utterly absurd choices/ directions during the open beta that would cause disgruntled portions of their playerbase to abandon the game.
@@furrymessiah And yet, Paladins is a dogshit version of Overwatch. I've played both and I'll tell you, I only play Paladins because Blizzard shit the bucket so hard that I finally caved to a friend's requests. That game is full of hackers and they try to suck every ounce of cash out of their playerbase that they can. I only play every once in a while until we encounter a hacker (usually that only takes a game or two) and then I remember why I didn't play it anymore and I have to wait until I forget that the game has more hackers than a DEFCON convention
One thing I love about Cold Take is that no two episodes feel the same, visual-wise. This one has a weird, almost punk-ish aesthetic, another is pure gameplay, a third is Frost in a Sombrero... gives each episode a totally different vibe.
Valve is a private company and doesn't have to play the "doing everything to please the shareholders" game that other big corpos use to guide their garbage behavior.
I remember what HiRez did to Tribes, I have still not forgiven them
Valve's making a hero shooter? Awesome! I'm surprised they don't have one by now.
...Hey wait a minute!!
>Get to the Rallyhere segment
Who knew his concerns were borne from projection all along? Yikes
Not just projection, but *envy* by the looks of it.
He's envious about not having what Value is comfortably resting their laurels upon.
Yeah, and Timmy Tencent said the same thing. Valve is the dominant player in the PC games market because they're the best, and they do right by their customers. Instead of seething with jealousy, why not try making your service better so you can actually compete?
Steam refunded every request for Helldivers 2 for players outside of PSN countries.
Can't say fairer than that, and that's why Valve/Steam dominates.
If EGS was actually ran by Tencent people would probably have less issue with it. At least it would have cloned Steam long ago.
@@MorbidEel Yeah Tencent is pretty hands off, can't really blame them for Epic's fumbling.
I'm just thinking that this is a perfect situation for a - "Tell me you don't play video games, without telling me you don't play video games."
When the best description of an enjoyable game experience (the 'core game loop') that a major decision maker can come up with is "sprinkled with magic fairy dust", you know your game company has leadership issues.
Thanks for the video Frost!
To quote Lisa Simpson - ‘It’s funny how sometimes two wrongs *can* make a right.’.
Or three lefts.
@@jamesclark7448 Can't be, Valve can not count to three
@@theviniso 🤣 Tru dat.
Hi Rez is like the one Company where i'm surprised it hasn't been Shutdown 10 years ago lol
It really does feel like back in the PS2 or even tbe Xbox 360 era they would have died with their track record.
But they have managed to keep going somehow.
@@haruhirogrimgar6047 It's mindboggling to me. Like they are somehow still afloat like How??? lol
The amount of Failures they had over the past 10 years is insane. But maybe that's why they are betting right now their all on Smite 2. Could imagine that when Smite 2 also fails like so many of their games that they file for bankruptcy.
They've been seemingly trying their best to make the studio fail as well over that time it seems. It's unreal how many games they've launched and botched over the past 10 years but managed to survive from the sheer amount of SMITE whales.
It's amazing how many situations "every accusation is a confession" works for
Valve is OP because its not publicly traded. Not having to cater to the voracious appetite of investors allows a company to make smart long-term decisions instead of fucking over its user base.
Funny how many comments there are of "I'll never forgive Hi-Rez for ruining [game]" but each time it's a different game. They really have a perfect track record of running each and every one of their IPs into the ground.
unleashing frost was second winds smartest decision. the dude is cooking. have not seen any videos like cold take before or since. the vibe, the voice, the variance. good stuff!
The workers at Valve are not infallible, they have not made a perfect system, they've just done a better job than anyone else thus far and we thank them and hope that continues.
"What would happen if Gabe Newell woke up one day and chose violence" *shudder*
I'm not actually worried because the reason Steam works is because it's a good service. There's alternatives just as friendly as Steam at this point, so if Steam really turned into the Epic game store it would lose that advantage.
@hosvet_animation that was true of Reddit, Xitter, etc. too. Don't assume that just because a service is good today that this will be true forever or that one need not be conscious of that service's ability to oppress. As Frost says in the video: there's a point to that, but Hi-Rez should take a look in the mirror before making it
The thing is, what would happen is nothing. The company's got a pretty uncommon structure, basically democracy. There are checks in place to make sure nobody can suddenly choose violence on the consumer, even Gabe.
@@maromania7 The people who own the company can change that structure overnight if they want
what was the saying, " thieves find nothing wrong with stealing; until it happens to them".
no i think the saying is that theives think everyone else is stealing because they do it themselves
He took literally the same position as Tim Sweeney took. Trying to look like the good guy, then trying to replace Valve with the end goal being him at the throne instead of Gabe and doing twice as many bad things.
Local news: Company that doesn't make stupid decisions for hort term gains has good reputation and is doing well.
I will not forgive Hi-rez for the slow and neglectful death of Tribes Ascend
I accidentally snorted my water at "working on the sequel Smite 2: Sans Spaghetti Code." Good job. It's the deadpan line delivery I think.
Success is not illegal.
Epic had a chance to become a real competitor, but Tim couldn't help being an overgrown child. GOG has a self-imposed handicap. EA, Rockstar, and Ubisoft's stores are not worth the storage space they occupy, and the company names attached to them are like a malignant growth.
Meanwhile, Valve has made strides in Linux gaming (and upstream Wine) and gained the loyalty of the entire ecosystem.
If the industry has to be a quasi-monopoly, we could do far worse than Valve.
GOG's "handicap" is its nain selling point. Without it nobody would've cared about it or used it at all
I love GoG as a store, it's the only one I consider using aside from Xbox(for game pass when I want to try something but not buy it) and Steam.
Valve are not great and are complete screw ups in ways that are utterly baffling and incomprehensible for a company as wealthy as they are, but they are significantly better than the alternatives.
They occupy a similar space as UA-cam funnily enough, and if one wants an example of how bad things could be one needs look no further.
Valve occupy a similar spot as youtube funnily enough, and if one wants an example of how bad things _could_ be they need look no further.
Don't forget; Epic kept REFUSING to add a shopping cart until it bit them in the ass with their customers bank accounts triggering false positives when people tried to buy multiple games during discount time!
what a damn shame. The consumer loves the corporation that doesn’t abuses them, response to problems, and punish them properly when the consumer messes up
I mean love is a bit dick sucking. it’s still just a faceless corporation, but one who offers a good product
@@nathanl4083 Valve is kinda the opposite of a faceless company, it's privately owned with Gabe Newell having the majority of shares.
Yeah hate to say it but I trust valve over the other companies when it comes to game launching, because the other choices are uplay which is known to take games that you paid for away from you, or the tencent owned epic games.
@@tortoiseoflegends4466 that private ownership makes an absurd amount of difference 😓
The Brainwashed and copium filled Team Fortress 2 fanbase trying their Fixtf2 movement might disagree.
Imagine getting appreciation and love from your community by giving them what they want instead of what the shareholders want
I don't think it's just giving what they want but what they need. Sure, obviously Valve would never do anything if there isn't profit, but most of what they do, benefits people at the end.
If your talking about value your lying, look at half life and team fortress to know your lying, but don’t worry the theirs always new CS skins to buy.
Never treat your customers so poorly that a smile and a handshake will take them away.
Whenever I think of how to run a "good" corporation, I'm reminded of a metaphor from a book by Sir Terry of Pratchett. He's talking about taxation, but the same principle applies to business, and it goes a little something like this:
"it's like being a dairy farmer: the art is working out how to extract the maximum amount of milk, for the minimum amount of moo."
Basically, keep your customers well fed and looked-after, and they'll happily let you get rich without feeling the sudden need to kick your mansion's door in and run you through with a pitchfork.
Seems to be how Steam operates, and I can see why that upsets some corpo types who prefer the" grind your customers under your jackboot until their skulls pop, and then move on to the next market" approach.
Frost, love the spoken word rendition of "Stuck in the Middle" :p
We've found the Shatner of our generation
Shearing a sheep for wool vs spearing a sheep for wool has to be new favourite analogy!
Calling DRG "space gnomes" is gonna rustle some feathers, I'm sure.
If Valve ever needed to earn a bit more money, they would just release Half Life 3 and drown in the sea of cash
Or Team Fortress 3... or Portal 3... or Left 4 Dead 3
@@nsmjohn Valve has a lotta nukes ready to unleash on any given day 😂
If Valve was truly concerned with competing in the Hero shooter department you'd think that they'd fix TF2...
If Valve ever wants to win the hero shooter market, they put the number 3 in a unlisted 10 second video and post the link in their EULA.
I think the reason they don’t fix it is because tf2 falls closer towards arena shooter rather than moba hero shooter where most of the money really is
@@yourself1210 i think the reason they dont fix tf2 is its way too old and has so little money left in it, even if it did became playable again. the best they could do is give it a source2 remake "sequal" like they did with counter strike, and even that didnt go that great considering it lost a good chunk of its content and gained bigger cheating issues
(hey, maybe that "deadlock" game is a project name for tf3, wouldnt that be funny)
they broke tf2 over their knee 8yrs ago bc they felt pressured to compete with overwatch by copying the modern format: (essay ahead, im a redditor at heart)
switch map after x rounds - even though tf2 rounds can go anywhere from 90 seconds to literal DAYS
party queue - bc god forbid u play against ur friends and have fun moments of rivalry, u gotta turn everything into a mind-numbing, antisocial grind for le epic W. not to mention that the max party size is 6, which is half of the max team size of 12, meaning u and ur dkhead buddies can votekick anyone u dont like for whatever reason. and ofc, this makes it EXTREMELY easy for bots to do their thing
and a decade later, people are starting to understand the corrosive effect this format has on team games, especially when the game structure itself doesn't need it (i.e. not a moba). when u have static servers that rotate maps on a timer, you're not pounding ur desk trying to get to the end and move on to the next lobby of faceless usernames who may as well be bots, you're chillin with a group of people that you start to recognize and enjoying the gameplay together. (but sometimes that group of ppl sucks, or they're just annoying like me, which is the big upside of the modern conveyor belt method)
They did a vibe check with the Jungle Inferno update to feel out what TF2s capacity for growth was and they said themselves they where very disappointed. TF2 fell drastically behind Counter Strike and DOTA years ago, and with something like Overwatch counting their monthly users in the millions, even at a low point in popularity, TF2 just isn't going to be the competitor to put money behind.
The amount of money and talent needed to revive Team Fortress as a brand, is just as easily spent on a new ip ultimately
Gotta love a good ol lack of responsibility.
I object, Paladins was in development before Overwatch, they just released after.
Fair game on the "maintenance mode" though.
Just like Sterling has been saying for years, these corporations don't just want some of the money, they want all of the money.
Remember when Hi-Rez lied about the Global agenda servers being "damaged in an office move"? they magically were found undamaged, fully working and configured, and able to play, a year ish? later. GA died because they begged and pleaded with Hi-Rez for a sequel. they instead put more shovelware on the "premium cosmetics" shop, and promised a sequel for *years*. I wish they'd cough up the Tribes IP to someone who would actually use it. and, for those interested, the GA servers are still up, puttering along with no one on them if you want some nostalgia.
They did cough up the IP, there's a new Tribes game on steam and it's not from Hirez
@@hopelover7023 They didn't, Prophecy Games is a subsidiary of Hirez
GA died because of asymmetrical rewards and lack of content. I don't know if they had a whole bunch of developers leave right before launch but that was truly the last time that high rez did anything original.
Hi-Rez's entire business strat for the last decade and a half seems to have been:
Make a core concept thats interesting, give it just enough budget to get it out the door, and then throttle all future support for it once its had enough sales. Ive gone through this twice now with Tribes Ascend and Paladins, not getting me a third time
Valve doesn't have a walled garden. It just has a really nice garden. If someone makes somewhere nicer, you're more than welcome to take a stroll there too.
Take a second to consider why monopolies are a problem and you'll realise more of those problems apply to Valves competetors, monopoly or not, than Valve themselves.
but have you stayed in the garden so long that vines started binding you?
vines such as an extensive friend list, a large library full of unplayed titles, a nice view of the many clouds(aves). should the trees become rotten or a nicer smaller garden pop up can you cut the vines so easily?
Valve is so spooked by Microsoft closing the gates to their playground, Valve decided to have a serious look at that Penguin playing on all those clouds!
@@LonelyAncient You have just described a general problem, this is not Valve specific. If the others had a good garden, some vines might grow too to pull me, but currently they are so rotten a gust of wind blows them right off of me.
Valve has a walled garden, its just that its customers have built the wall themselves by raging at any company that insists on using their own launcher instead of relying entirely on Steam.
@@Wraithfighter maybe cause the other launchers are a stinking pile of garbage?
While Gabe is a pretty benevolent king who's to say who/how our next rulers will be? Might want to consider a constitution for the long term...
Who's to say he might not turn on us? There'll come a point when Valve is no longer beholden to us, the consumers, and we won't know how close we were to that point 10 years ago until the day after it's too late.
@@15oClock that is the hope. Admittedly a new CEO or other selected leadership roles might try sleazier business tactics.
@@15oClock And what happens if some of those employees decide to sell? Or God forbid, decide to take the company public?
@@128thMic before even that there are times where Gabe stepped in to oppose some predatory tactics, for example the Dota battlepass being too grindy. not all valve employees would be benevolent given the power.
@@128thMicIf Reddit is any indication to go by, they're not likely to go public unless they risk bankruptcy if they don't.
Saint Algorithmus, let us break bread once more over the mouthpiece of reason, and all alike under your Perfect Gaze.
the funny thing about that mizkif skin is that when he reacted to it on stream you could see him instantly regretting it
5:26 "... under immense pressure to show their investors that they can outgrow the overall industry trend." If he's talking about Valve there, Valve is a private company (unless I missed something somewhere) and all the "shares" are owned internally. IOW, there are no Valve "investors" and Valve doesn't have to chase short-term gains. They only have to pay attention to the actual good of the company and their customers.
reminds me of that one 4chan post explaining in tinfoil hat terms how the whole game industry is held on by Gabe still being involved in Valve and the moment he dies is when everything come crashing down, the guy might be crazy but each day that passes I believe a bit ore that he might not be wrong
I'm sure you hear this all the time, but the dulcet tone of your voice is smooth as butter.
"Valve's Late entry into the hero shooter?"
Uh Valve basically created the hero shooter with Team Fortress 2
That doesn't change the fact Deadlock is a late entry into the genre.
Smite2 won't be sans spaghetti code. They're just making a new kind of pasta
I won’t forgive them for tribes
Same. I've boycotted all their games since tribes ascend
Every time I see Hi-Rez mentioned, I just get irrationally upset about Tribes Ascend.
This is just another Silicon Valley complaint about how a successful business model couldn't be copied and then profiteered upon.
They're only doing that because they were unable to successfully enshittify Valve yet.
Stewie should count his lucky stars he wasn't born into a time when a company's failures came out the the executives' pockets.
I just realized....
Valve doesn't need to break into the Hero Shooter. They already have one: Team Fortress 2.
Some days, I wonder if we should start banning the very concept of public companies, and force all companies to go private.
So basically, he accused Valve/Steam of being Epic. Someone might want to adjust his glasses for him.
God damn somethings in the boardrooms water supply havin all these highrankers line-up to clown themselves on the global stage this year. But I won't complain.
it's called fear. if other studios can make good games and then they cant make the line go up they need a scapegoat or they be removed from their position by the stock owners. no more multi million bonuses while people get laid off.
Not to mention the atrocious monetization Hi-Rez has implemented over the years. It used to be somewhat reasonable, now there are battle passes on top of seasonal FOMA bundles on top of randomized chests as the only way to get some skins.
Absolutely zero sympathy for Hi-Rez.
to be fair counter strike and TF2 monetization are also awful
@@breadguyyy And at the same time, Hi-rez monetization really isn't as bad as people make it out to be. All gods current and future for one low price is perfect and it was pretty generous with it's freemium money. I got a bunch of skins without ever slapping down money.
Again, I'm really liking the creative chances you're taking. Thanks for growing.
"I don't know what the hell happened there" NDA at work
"Parasitic compulsive gambler hates the concept of a private entity not financially beholden to fellow parasites."
Man, mentioning Tribes: Ascend still makes me sad.
I really like the various graphical styles that Cold Take is trying out. Keeping it as interesting as the writing. Well done.
Tribes was the first game that I really enjoyed whose servers were shut down by the publisher about 1-2 years after its launch, rendering it unplayable. Ignoring all its other issues, I wanna thank HiRez for teaching me to avoid Games As A Service early.
being shafted by Valve is literally just a lackluster summer sale/winter sale/whatever. Valve wins the competition while sitting on the couch eating cheez doodles
Simple solution to Valve's, "Monopoly" here are the basic steps.
1. Make a store.
2. Make it have review system, shopping cart, discussion forums, etc. Overall useful features for your customers.
3. Profit.
So... Make another Steam?
I mean... I'm not saying you're wrong 😂
Also make sure your games are actually playable on an OS which isnt adware and spyware
2.2: Make sure the games are playable on a technical level.
2.3: Resist temptation to be anticonsumer with gouging or DRMs
@@peterclarke7006 If you're going to beat them, successfully copying what Steam is already doing is your *starting* point. You're going to have to do better in some, or likely multiple, areas. It took Epic literal months to get a working *shopping cart* for their *digital storefront* , something that should have been present at the start of development. If you can't get something that basic correct right out the gate, the whole endeavour is just doomed.
To bad valve is forcing the product in the store to remain artificially high meaning that theirs no different in the actual product, you know games.
Stewart is stuck in his own personal hell with that whole stockholder pie size idea. Everyone's fighting over the pie, but Valve took the pie tin. They're not on the stock market. They don't need to abide by promises to investors in any way similar to HiRez. Valve knows all they need is the pie tin when someone wants to bake another.
Holy shit. It just clicked that you are theotherfrost.
My only fear is Valve one day pulling a Google and just becoming dog crap....
I'd give Hi-Rez credibility is Hi-Rez could make a good game
They had so many opportunities and yet failed so miserably. Like they can't recognize that they have gold in their hands. Tribes was pretty unique and fun game, Smite is pretty unique, early versions Paladins where you had random cards dealt was pretty unique and fun. And they pretty much ruined them all.
It's like with EA with Anthem, awesome theme for the game, practically unlimited potential for customization, skins (and selling those) and classes, great world, fun gameplay. They had insanely good basis for a great game and somehow managed to ruin it.
Was not expecting a cover of Stealers Wheel when I clicked the thumbnail. Bravo.
I'll never get over HiRez abandoning Tribes. One of the most unique and enjoyable main mechanics for a shooter and they left it to rot.
The concern I have with Valve is what happens when GabeN retires, sells or heaven something worse happens.
Can't think of a better (likely) final smite video to have made frost, ty.
Reminds me of how Amazon makes generic versions of popular products.
The line "No Valve no, BAD Valve...They didn't listen" is just the best line. Had me nearly spitting out my drink.
Remember when the devs behind PubG claimed Epic stole a bunch of insights from their game to make the Fortnite Battle Royale? And Epic basically confirmed it? Then said "what are you going to do about it, we're still supporting them and still letting them be on our store - good deals for devs there, BTW, trust us!"
It's not a claim that isn't rooted in reality - it happens. However, the fact that he's claiming it's going to happen before it has just because his project is floundering says a lot, and it's not what he thinks he's saying.
You highlighted it perfectly. If Valve were to go rogue tomorrow it'd be devastating for consumers. But the sheer backlash that'd create in turn would obliterate that company in a decades' time, if that.
Fact of the matter is for damn near two decades Valve has focused on consumer satisfaction and have thus cemented themselves as the games distributor everyone trusts. An unassailable position for a company to have in this business.
The most hilarious thing is that Deadlock has been in development (and internally rebooted once) for about 5ish years now. Valve ain't fast.
A thief believes that all people steal. So if a guy running a service that gives him seriously asymmetrical information accuses someone else in a similar situation of exploiting that kind of info, he's definitely either doing it himself or making excuses to justify what he plans to do later.
Also, as he points out, a platform holder like Valve makes money off of other companies' games with significantly less risk, so why would Valve bother to try poaching his players?
"Asymmetricality only sucks when it hurts me!" Thanks for pointing out the hypocrisy
The funniest thing to me is how much money a lot of publishers are spending to *acquire* various game development teams and studios, and Steam is just like "here's an open store stall for you to sell your games" and people pay Valve to join the platform.
Frost out here dropping truths so hard and cold it's like handling dry ice without gloves. Sublime.
Frost I love the way you present information and give your personal opinion
Oh holy crap, I have that same set of exact bowls.
Not an esports fan myself but I'd love to see this video blow up.
This is the frostiest Cold Take I've heard in a long while, and I mean that in a good way
Once again, very, very happy that Valve does not have any shareholders.
This, in a roundabout way, explains some of why we never got Half-Life 3.
If a company that made games isn't allowed to make games (without complaint) because they also sell games, then even the act of the game company making games only invites criticism.
While I do think healthy competition is important, the problem in this case is that the competition has to actually do the work before they complain.
I mean, Why is it I can play Valve's Team Fortress 2 natively on Linux, but I need valve's own proton to play smite on the same Linux computer, or can't even play Fortnite at all?
That's like Company B complaining that Company A is "too overpowered", when Company B don't even make any effort to serve (Let's say, for example) the US market. And In order for the customer in the US to get any purchases from Company B, The customer needs the channels from Company A to get to Company B. Company B has no legal restrictions on opening up a US branch, they just don't want to.
God I love the callback to Frost's Stuck in the middle with you videos.
"I'll get right on it. No Valve, no. Bad Valve.... they didn't listen" is the best thing I've heard today
It took me too long to realise that your singing 'stuck in the middle with you' in the outro 😂😂
I swear I was thinking for the first half this sounds like he's accusing valve of something he would do himself.