Composer Reacts to Dream Theater - The Dance Of Eternity (REACTION & ANALYSIS)
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- Опубліковано 16 січ 2022
- Bryan reacts to and talks about his thoughts on Dream Theater - The Dance Of Eternity [Breaking The Fourth Wall]
ORIGINAL VIDEO // • Dream Theater - The Da...
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![[1st time Reaction] Dream Theater - Dance of Eternity](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_PUrIhn_Zrk/mqdefault.jpg)
![[1st time Reaction] Dream Theater - Dance of Eternity](/img/tr.png)
"how many time signatures do you need in a song ?"
Dream Theater : "Yes"
"How many transitions do you need in a song?"
Dream Theater: "Yes"
Yeah so, this song is really fun! It comes in the latter half of their album "Metropolis Pt, II: Scenes From a Memory", a concept album/rock opera developed as a sequel to one of their earlier songs. This track has 108 time signature changes in it's 6.5 mins of runtime. Just really fun stuff overall, though I still at times can't get over the fact that there are 108 changes 😅. I love it!
I'm still convinced it *could* be written in less than 108 changes. I'll be looking into it tomorrow and see what's actually going on😅
@@CriticalReactions Oh it definitely could have been. Easily.
@@CriticalReactions But is that fun??
I guess they were just fooling around and wanted to test their limits. It was more experimental than anything. They made sure the other songs were like listenable to non musicians
Nah, anything less would be blasphemy. This song encapsulates DT’s prog nature and they love their numerous time sigs. Especially JP and MP.
@CriticalReactions It's like the musical version of the Harlem globetrotters. They're not trying to write a hit song. It's a showing of musical complexity.
Producer "-how many time signatures will you have in this song"
Band "-what is a time signature?"
Dream Theater "-all of them"
I feel like “in El” by First Fragment might be on this week , an excessive amount of guitar solos , in this 19minute piece absolutely blows me away
I would absolutely be forced to agree with you on that one 👌Never heard so much glorious musical masterbation packed in less than 20 minutes 🙄
Paying attention to time signatures, especially while performing, is something that I find almost pointless with songs that utilize this many time signatures. When I listen to or play any of my math rock or prog music, I go almost entirely off of feel and memorization unless the section has one extended phrase with one time signatures. Your brain can't count the meter quickly enough before it's already changed, and you have to start all over again.
It's a very interesting way of playing that seems entirely wrong if you think about performing music from a classical viewpoint where many musicians can sightread a piece of music without having seen it at all. Songs that are purposefully crafted to sound rhythmically complicated, as a lot of progressive music and offshoots thereof do, are effectively impossible to sightread unless the performer is incredibly talented. It's a really cool way of writing music that I've thoroughly embraced.
Yup. This completely reinforces what I was talking about with regards to time signature being a shorthand for performances to understand a composer's idea. I'm seeing there's 108 time signatures changes in this track and I'm curious if I could cut that down a bit by refusing to focus on Beat 1s being the beginning of a phrase. I'd have to use accent markers to achieve the same feel but it would drastically increase the readability from a performer's viewpoint.
That's a completely valid point, however it seems as though the former drummer of the band, Mike Portnoy used counting the time signature to help him play it out. I could be wrong of course, I'm just extrapolating the video of him explaining the way the song is written. If you start out learning to count it will eventually become second nature and you wouldn't need to think about it, you just count automatically. Again, completely subjective and I'm sure looking at the sheet music would be a maze to many people
I listen to this song constantly by a lot back in the days, probably thousand times at this point, not because I want to memorize it, but because I genuinely like it. I'm not even try to learn the time signature, is just naturally cemented in my brain and I can play it no problems on drum so much it feels like I'm auto piloting the song. It is still not an easy song by any means tho.
You gotta check out their new Epic, the title track from the latest album. Beautiful stuff.
I think John Petrucci said in some interview I watched that for him the timing is a mix of feel and counting. He plays a lot by feel and just knowing the songs but depending on the section he does count some stuff as well. In general he said he has to put in extra practice for stuff like Dance of Eternity before they go on tour with a song like that.
I mean it shouldn't surprise anyone that they have to practice and rehearse the songs before tours but I think it makes them a bit more "human" :D
There are segments in their own music that are either rhythmically or technically so hard that they aren't always 100% on that level if they don't specifically work on those parts.
Nice. Great lesson on time signatures. 🤣. I enjoyed the song and I'm sure I will be checking out more DT on the future.
There is a video on UA-cam where Mike Portnoy explains the meters of this song, check that out in your own time.
So hyped for their tour
6:10 Whole tone scale baby!
The answer to the thumbnail question: Yes!
Next time you feel like listening to some Dream Theater, I would recommend the combination of Hell's Kitchen + Lines In The Sand(the first flows into the next uninterruptedly). It's the exact opposite of this; more groove sections, more solo parts, some additional parts with a slower tempo, and fantastic lyrics too. I think you will enjoy the contrast a whole lot.
I like the idea that any tool we create like a time signature can be put into the focus and used for a different purpose than its intended use. Sure some people might call this misusing the tool, but I prefer to view it as exploratory in nature.
Yup. That's how a lot of experimental and avant-garde music gets created. Find a tool that is typically used in a singular manner (bonus points if it's scarcely used) and make it the focal point of a writing. For example Doom Metal's use of tempo or anything hyper dissonant.
hearing you talk about time sigs was my favorite conversation youve had on this channel
I'm always down to talk about how techniques are applied but I love to ramble on and on about these techniques on a higher, abstracted layer as well. 😀
Yes! I'm always a fan of the technical music theory discussions/explanations
I can't read music and no nothing about Time signatures on Paper but I can play this whole song on the Drums by feel.
Being self taught that's all I knew.
DT put songs together via jams and parts that match they will put in the song , they of course know all the Time signatures but what you hear on a song like this is maybe the result of 10 jams together and pieces put together out of that.
The Most Talented Band Ever🤘🏽
No better way to kick off an eccentric song series. I remember learning some of it with my guitar teacher back in the day and I think there's something like 100 time changes. This song was so crazy it blew my 14 year old brain, it opened me to prog metal and more complex music in general. Dream theater now might be a bit underwhelming with their newer stuff, but I'm forever indebted to them for opening a whole new world and new ways to play/write
Hiw to go about with those tine signatures is way over my head. Not a bug DT fan either. But I just love the playful inventiveness of this song!😍
This song at the point in the album it occurs is about “sex”. Specifically Victoria and Edward having sex after he seduces her. So given the complex rhythmic structure and the many time sigs of the song. It makes sense given how well “sex” can go many different ways with two people. The song itself is built around that but I think the band wanted to push the envelope a bit too with all the sigs and riffs.
Could it have been done simpler and still got the point across? Yes perhaps but that’s not their M.O and it would’ve been far less entertaining to me both aurally perhaps and a challenge technically when performed.
Hi Bryan, I remember asking you already so not sure if it is on the list but I really would love the have your take on the 19 minutes long "The Sun, the Moon, the Star", from the south carolinian melodic death metal band "Æther Realm". That song is an adventure and really gets you with the last part. By the way if you end up doing it, listen to the studio version and not the live play through as the live one is not really well mixed. Thank you and love your vids
The list is getting exceptionally long and chaotic. It has over 1200 bands on it and various songs per band. At this point the best way of getting a specific song on the channel is through Special Selection. You can find the link to that in the LinkTree in the description of this video. Let me know if you have any questions or need any help with that.
The answer as you all know it is "Yes"...
"illumination theory" and "change of seasons" would be good ones to check out as well 👌
yes, i love these songs so much. illumination theory would be so interesting to see him react to
the second part of the song after the solos, have 67 time signature changes, and it goes between 3/4, 4/4, 3/6, 5/6 , 6/8, 7/8 and 8/8
Some of those could be simplified down to 2/4, 3/4, 3.5/4, 4/4, and then an odd 5/6. So depending on how the meters are arranged it very well could be written in something close to 4/4 with the odd shifting to another meter for a bar or so.
@@CriticalReactions 3.5/4? Think that’s a typo
@@CriticalReactions younshould see mike's video where he sxplained the signatures and you'll see why it can't be simplified
I so want to see the orcestra conductor this entire song.
Most of it wouldn't be that interesting but now I'm quite curious about how to conduct 17/18 or any other time signature with more than 6 beats per bar.
Polyrhythms are at the heart of metal, not classical. It’s a big difference. Metal started simple harmonically but was complex rhythmically.
Then it got more insane, and bands like Yes and ELP began getting harmonically freaky.
Symphony X, DT, and others put the chocolate in the peanut butter and now we have insane rhythms AND harmonic progressions.
Yippee!!!
This is a song that Bryan really needs to learn to play before he can truly appreciate it. I don't think this song was written for ears to hear but for fingers to play. I learned this on bass and I did my best to count out every riff and I can't express how much fun getting my ass kicked by this song was
The bass riff at 5:50 will always haunt me
I think you're right. This is the perfect "playing" song for intermediate/expert musicians
Any song is written for ears or it wouldn’t be written but the techniques is what sets it apart to play. This is a balls to the wall prog song with the concept of the Album woven into it. They let loose with this one.
Fun to play, yes and probably their hardest or one of their hardest ones in their entire catalogue
I don't even think the band intended for there to be so many time signature changes, its just that the fanbase recognized that It could be divided into so many parts. The number of changes has been debated and Dream Theater doesn't seem to care enough to count. There are parts that continuously "change" between x/8 and y/8, but the section was probably just written in x+y/8 with odd articulation of the phrases.
I think they made it this way to be sporadic as it is meant to represent the protagonist of the story piecing together the quite confusing situation and revealing the "truth". It fits very well with the album, which is great by the way. But outside the album its just a technical piece of theirs that got popular mainly because of the time signature changes.
Yup, I still need to get around to looking at the meter but I'm in the camp that it's probably not as chaotic as people make it out to be. There are probably patterns that can heavily condense the number of changes. It is pretty neat that it isn't just a technical showcase piece and that it works thematically in the album as well.
Is this song popular??
If you're interested, I own a copy of the Shinko Music-published score for the Metropolis Pt. 2 album, which includes this song, and would be happy to risk a bit of niche, temporary copyright infringement and send you a scanned PDF of it. I'm quite confident it's all been done by a third party - likely some poor Shinko employee who got locked in a basement for half a year trying to make sense of all the DT madness - so it's not 100% gospel, but still, might be a fun/useful read... Just say the word if you'd like a scan! 🙂
... oh, and also: Thanks a bunch for all the cool reactions you've done, not least this one! The more Dream Theater - and Blind Guardian - the better! For specifics, Stream of Consciousness, and anything off Nightfall in Middle Earth or At the Edge of Time, respectively! Again, love your videos, love your work, keep it up! 😁👍
Lines In The Sand and In The Name of Gos are songs that have Groovier sections in them, meaning they don't deviate from 4/4 as much lol
In The Name Of God is one of my favorites.
I composed a couple songs with weird time signatures, can't say I'm a great technically, but a lot of what you are talking about here is what I did. I took an idea and tried to fit it in a bunch of spaces.
Please do "Home" off this album there are so few reactions to that song
For the dream theater writing process, I recommend mike portnoy's In constant motion instructional dvd, watch the studio sessions in between the footage of dt and liquid tension experiment. They chart and write all this out with clear and concise discussions about the time signatures, where the changes go, and even why which signatures do and do not work due to the "phrasing" now that you mention it. You don't have to search long, but I think you'll have fun looking into it.
Oh, please do not take this as an angry rant defense. Liked the vid and subbed.
Como ele nunca ouviu essa música 😂😂😂
Dance of eternity is a masterpiece and yes other comment is correct 108 time signatures but you used a old pic with Mike portnoy who has been out of the band about 11 yrs now lol
When this album came out it was awesome because it was our first album with Jordan on keys and they released this masterpiece album that WILL stand the test of time so to see what Jordan brought to the band was a real treat for us 90s fans
People making it about the time signatures is beyond my comprehension. This is an extremely fun piece of music and I'm willing to conjecture 99% of the people who have listened to it don't even know what a time signature is.
I, for one, can't even tell which parts are in 4/4, which is no obstacle to enjoying or whistling along.
This morning someone told me what the shortest three-syllable word and the longest two-syllable word in my native language are (3 and 9 letters). Those numbers don't make those specific words any better or worse than any other word though. It all depends on what you want to say.
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The drumming is quite more regular than the guitar parts, so indeed some sections can be written in a more regular meter with weird accent pattterns.
Thanks for the comment and I agree 100%. There are plenty of people who will latch onto specific stats or facts about a song and herald it as "the best" because of those bullet points. But music is about more than the individual components. I could write a song with 200+ meter changes, twice as many as Dance of Eternity, but if that's all I focus on then it's going to sound rigid and soulless and I doubt many people would hold it in the same esteem. Complexity does not equal greatness but I've seen the opposite held up as truth a few times in my musical exploration. It's the same concept that makes people feel justified in putting down popular music like pop, techno, radio rock, hip hop, or country.
On the other side of the coin though, applying musical knowledge to a song and breaking down what is happening can help people appreciate a song more. And that's what I try to foster with my analysis. I want to help people hear a new aspect or gain an entirely new perspective on their favorite tracks. I always try to say something positive about each song even if I don't enjoy it because I'm hoping that other listeners who might not be enjoying the music can walk away understanding why someone else might love the track. It's not about superiority, it's about appreciation.
On the third side of this coin (it's a weird coin, ok? 😁) you don't *need* to know everything to get that appreciation. Like you said, you don't know what's going on with the time signature but you still enjoy it and can still follow along. And if that's good enough for you then who am I to say any different? Again, I'm not advocating superiority; it's all about that appreciation. And it sounds like you're appreciating this music just fine. :)
I was hesitant to vote for this even though I think it's a perfect fit for the week's theme. It's so over-reacted to and, IMO, isn't even close to one of DT's best tracks. It actually goes a long way towards justifying all the things certain people/critics hate about DT and accuse them of: basically being all flash/wank/technical show and no substance. Yes, it's massively impressive that they go through 100-some time signature changes in 6 minutes, but as a coherent piece of music I don't think it works very well. It works a bit better in the course of the album where many of its themes are echoes to other themes within the concept album, as well as to Metropolis pt. 1 (the predecessor to the concept album), but even within the album I don't think it's particularly good. Plus, I think even the idea of being impressed by the 100-some time signature changes feels like it's turning the art of music into a d*** measuring contest. Though I obviously have no problem admiring great musicianship, I do think that musicianship should be in service to making great music and not just showing off what you can do. DT have so many songs where they very much serve the music, which is why I'm a huge fan, but I've never felt this was one of them.
I'm curious what the band thinks of this song. Is this an interesting/great song to them or is it a technical display? Because the fans have made it clear that this song is *about* the time signatures. And I still believe I could pair those down to something more readable to a musician, which would remove that "100+ time signature changes" fact from the song and leave it with....what? Though it's still an enjoyable song, it's flashy, and I appreciate their initiative to say "let's do this for the sake of doing it" and standing by that.
I think I forgot to compare this to Tool's Lateraus in the video but that one also did a time signature thing that ultimately felt superficial as those changes could have been represented by a 4/4.
@@CriticalReactions No idea what the band thinks of it, though I suspect they enjoy playing it because... hell, if I could play like they could I'd enjoy playing it too! Plus, it's a fan favorite so I'm sure it does well with audiences live.
As for time signatures, it's probably good for people to understand that time signatures are meant to be a helpful tool for musicians to follow along to a piece as opposed to something more "concrete" like, say, harmony. Lots of pieces can be written in different time signatures depending on what instrument(s) you're following and where you decide to break off a measure--ie, whether you decide to break it off at the end of a certain melodic phrase or not. This is where the confusion around a band like Meshuggah comes from, because some say they play in polymeters and others say they play in 4/4. It can absolutely be both depending on whether you want to focus on the drums (usually the hi-hat) playing 4/4 or the riffs that loop and twist around that 4/4 that, if listened to in isolation, almost certainly wouldn't be labeled as 4/4... but when listened to in the context of the drums can be thought of as irregularly phrased riffs that eventually resolve on 4/4.
Jonathan, DT makes songs like this because they have lots of fun doing it. They have said so themselves in interviews. They said that they enjoy pushing themselves from a musician standpoint. Plus, there are some die hard DT who enjoy it as well, but the main thing is that they write songs like this because they enjoy writing and playing them. It's probably a pretty intense adrenaline rush..... They don't do it to impress....Honestly, they are such amazing musicians, that they probably get bored as hell playing "regular" songs LOL........They prefer to challenge "themselves" as musicians and push their abilities....
@@CriticalReactions I read an interview a long time ago and this question was brought up to them, and if I remember correctly, they mentioned that they like to write songs like this because it's enjoyable for them, AND they like to push themselves as musicians.... They understand that it's not everyone's cup of tea. As a musician myself, I don't know how they heck they can remember all of these time signatures.....That's one of the things I love about DT, they could easily write songs that would end up on the radio(i..e... Pull Me Under), but they choose to stay true to themselves and write songs that they enjoy writing and that challenge them...
Fact. I play this song without tapping or counting. I just know it
Honestly that's the only way I could see people doing it. Just practice it until it becomes muscle memory.
Huh... now you have me curious how they actually transposed it for the orchestra.
A very talented orchestrator is the key
108....the answer is 108. No less, no more!
The interesting thing about time signatures is that it's not exact, it's about conveying information. So if someone transposed this they could choose to have more or less and the song itself wouldn't change. Dream Theater wrote it with 108 but it *could* have more or less. :)
If you want excessive, you should check out Frontierer. My suggestion would be Glacial Plasma, but that's mostly because it's the song that I'm most familiar with.
ua-cam.com/video/-e6-2_4pDMM/v-deo.html&ab_channel=Frontierer
They're a mathcore band and if you want to get an idea of what they sound like but as a visual representation, then look no further than the album artwork off of this album.
I know I’m late to the party but just subbed after the Anaal Nathrak video and was scrolling through your older stuff. There’s only one reaction I’ve ever had to Dream Theater: Technically proficient musicians proficiently playing technical music. Devoid of any emotional content and just wankery for the sake of wankery.
That's fair. I don't think everything I've heard from them falls under that but they can certainly drift towards a cold, calculating feeling.
Listening to DT can only take you so far. To fully appreciate the level of complexity going on, you have to learn to play it!
Excessive tempo changes? You mean.... car bomb?! Blackened battery!!
Can't beat this band
I don't really get why people react to this version specifically, it's nothing out of the ordinary (for DT, I guess), and any version with MP in it is leagues better. Still cool hearing your thoughts about it.
You really can't compare MP to MM. It's like apples and oranges. They are both amazing drummers, just different styles....For example if you listen to the new DT, MM is absolutely amazing on it with some absolutely crazy drumming
This still holds up 🙄👌Too bad the spoon player is so buried in the mix you can't really hear them 🤷🏻♂️ Or you could just listen to Dillinger Escape Plan's entire "Calculating Infinity" album as one track 😂😂😂 no way you could get through it all... Unreal amount of material and time signature madness...✍️ Consider it at least a a challenge on your off time... 😂
Just to through this fact in 🤷🏻♂️ There is a a band called DARK ANGEL (Early Thrash Metal band) that has an album called "Time does not heal"
It literally came with a sticker that stated it had over 256 riffs 😂 some ridiculous number over 220 at the very least...
Over the years I tried to count each riff... The album is almost an hour long 🙄
I have got to 200 riffs and then have always lost count since it is such a long album
Challenge Accepted!
yo, Death Grips?
Maybe?
Hey Brian, check this out :D: ua-cam.com/video/vswDu3IlUbg/v-deo.html
Is Mike Portnoy counting the chart of dance of eternity
you need to check out Nightwish...Ghost love score ...Offichel video...
I checked out the official live video for it a while back. ua-cam.com/video/z8yZEK7Bwy8/v-deo.html
God, how I miss Portnoy when seeing this :/
Instrumental Dream Theater is preferable to me... the vocals in this band can sometimes turn me off.