Ahhh, I remember those old days. Me comparing sword tips with friends. I remember one of my friends had a zweihander, who made a comment about the reach of my tulwar. I stole his scabbard.
IRL though, he actually respected the Japanese. When the Kaiser started railing on about the "Yellow menace" of the Japanese, Edward basically implied to him that he was full of shit, by casually stating that the only difference he saw between a European and a Japanee guy was skin color. (Incidentally, the guy was pissed at the use of the N-word--which he deemed an outrage, which gives you an idea of what sort of guy we're dealing with).
My father (1st RCR, Sicilian, Italian and Scheldt campaigns) told me that the order, and the noise of "fix bayonets" always cleared a German position without having to actually do a bayonet assault. I'm not sure if that was a singular event, or it happened a couple of times. I don't imagine they were often within shouting distance of each other in that war, at least not in terms of battle lines, so I think it was used infrequently.
@@rodchallis8031 That's essentially the reason Lloyd from Lindybeige argues that bayonets save lives. He's got a whole video where he essentially said that "no one sticks around to get stabbed with a bayonet"
No, European blades from this period are made of 'cast steel', which is technically superior to folded steel - you only fold steel to even out the impurities if you are not able to melt it.
I have been fortunate enough to inherit one of each of those bayonets. They are beautiful in person, and I imagine more so on the end of a rifle. I wondered why they were different, so it's interesting to learn why the longer on is designed that way. I also have, from what I can tell, an 1856 Pioneer Sawback sword (with Wilkinson markings.) Fascinating thing. Hope too potentially see a video on one at some point.
Relations between Britain and Japan relations in this period went beyond just being 'friendly'. From 1902 onwards there was a formal alliance between them, which was important in Japan's preparation for war with Russia in 1904. And in WW1 itself, Japan was an active combatant against Germany, taking advantage of the opportunity to snaffle German colonies in the Pacific. Who knew?
I always the understood the long bayonet requirements being derived from the demand for a Rifle/Bayonet combination to outreach a Mounted Cavalryman with a Sabre, rather than a generic "opposition."
Honestly, thats the same concern as having a reach disadvantage. A reach disadvantage is problematic in infantry hand to hand and disastrous against cavalry. Essentially the concern is the same with different magnitudes of negative consequences depending on your opponent.
No wonder I always confused those two bayonets. I was always trying to figure out why a Type 30 was on an Enfield before realizing that they bayo wasn’t a Type 30
I have a 1941 example which is blunted from war use but is quite the effective chopping weapon! Probably due to it's similarity with the Japanese bayonet. It's balance is forward of the hilt and the hefty blade has a strong taper so it cuts through sticks and vines like nothing, very useful.
That was the reasoning behind so many nations switching to a sword/knife bayonet from a spike. The bladed bayonet essentially turned the rifle into a glaive, giving the soldier the option of thrusting and slashing, as opposed to just the thrust with a spike, like the Russians and French bayonets of the time.
Bayonet fighting is a completely different school to both the spear and naginata. Incidentally, sporterized bayonet fighting in Japan survives in the form of Jukendo. Jukendo tournament: ua-cam.com/video/hRmDygXUc-Q/v-deo.html Jukendo vs Naginata sparring: ua-cam.com/video/7K-e5BB1rX0/v-deo.html
The Australian 4th Light Horse Brigade (mounted infantry) used their 1907 pattern bayonets in lieu of swords during the attack on the wells at Beersheba in 1917. Slashing at Turks with these bayonets from horseback worked extremely well and won the day. Stabbing would only have resulted in the loss of the bayonets, which are often referred to as "sword bayonets" by military historians. The film "The Lighthorsemen" recreated this attack fairly accurately, including the use of these sword bayonets to slash rather than stab.
I wouldnt be surprised if it was hahahaha. Our continent is a comedy sometimes. Last month I finally got my... sword license here in Greece and my friends in Italy are on the process of having theirs issued too. Sword license dude, background checks and phyciatrical evaluation and all that. Consider yourself VERY lucky you dont have that one at least in Britain and can have as many swords as you like. The cops said they wont issue me more than 10 in the future (one license= one sword).
I suspect that No.4s were being generally made to lower standards due to wartime resource pressures - if you look at photos of D-Day preparations you'll see paras armed with SMLEs in preference to No.4s. And the SMLE was prevalent in the Far East, by both British and Indian forces. To me the No.4 feels like a budget version.
As the No.4 only started production in 1941 there were still whole units armed with the No1Mk3. We sent over 50,000 from Australia to lend a hand when things kicked off. The Ishapore and Lithgow production was high enough that British units transferring to the far east turned in their No4's and were issued No1Mk3's from Indian and Australian stocks.
@@scholagladiatoria I can appreciate what you mean, they definitely simplified some aspects of the design to reduce machining time and reduce weight. To me, and it might just be my examples, but my No.4 has a smoother and faster bolt throw than the Mk3.
I have had a model 1907 SMLE bayonet and scabbard for now close to 50 years. Many people don't know that, in addition to Wilkinson, there were several other manufacturers, one of which was Chapman. The one I own is a Chapman, manufactured 1916, and oddly enough it still retains the original bluing, which is actually more gray then anything else. Based on that, I assume that this particular bayonet did not see combat service. I know where I got it, (US), but I forget what I paid for it.... I bought it from a friend, and I don't think I paid any more than about $10 for it at the time. What a bargain !
@@lancerd4934 Well, Corporal Jones never was very specific. Zulus don't like it up 'em, fuzzy wuzzies don't like it up 'em, Italians and Germans don't like it up 'em.
Most of the schools of jukendo actually derive from a 19th century British Army manual of arms for bayonet fighting, variously modified over time. The Japanese Army adopted the British Army's manual and then independent schools sprang up in Japan over time as a martial art in its own right. Possibly the only "Japanese" martial art to have come from Britain.
Really? I thought that bayonet fighting was a sport that started in France, and since the IJA was basically copying the French Army, up until the Franco-Prussian war had ended, I had always thought that Jukendo came from French bayonet training, not British. @@iatsd
The hook quillon is similar to the japanese Jitte too, although that maybe more of a convergent evolution thing since they seem to start popping up on european bayos in the 1860's.
Warms my frozen heart to see Matt holding my favorite rifle in the world.... More so to hear that he actually shoots it! One of mine is a 1916 BSA with a 1916-dated P1907 Wilkinson bayonet. Now I think I'll need go out to my back yard and go through a magazine or two (or, rather, a magazine and a couple chargers)…..
Did anyone else notice the picture of British infantry in the First World War has a creepy ghost-like face in it? It's around knee-level of the left leg of the man closest to the camera.
Next up - video on the Rosalie ? :) "by that point, the French as well [were doctrinally enclined to use the bayonet]" Well to be fair, France was doctrinally into shock tactics from the Revolution up to WW1 - with the exception of the late 2nd Empire, whose defeat in 1870 only encouraged the High Command to put shock back as the core tactic. And the last time French soldiers charged with their bayonets was in 1994 in Sarajevo.
@@MadManchou You can also charge with lances or sab(er/re)s or those things that get called sab(er/re)s but definitely aren't. I don't think France had any horse cavalry by 1994, though.
Yes, although that was only at platoon or company strength from memory. A better example is the Falklands where whole battalions charged up the hillsides. There is Argentinian video testimony of facing screaming paras with bayonets fixed. They were also used lethally once the positions were reached
I got a similar bayonet from a knife shop when I was a teenager. I had no idea what it was, but I knew it was old a British. They were in a barrel and covered in cosmoline with CETME bayonets. I got one of each. I pulled it out a couple years ago and realized it was a Wilkerson. One of the few times mall ninja teenager me made a good decision.
I wonder if you could put an M1907 bayonet on an MLE, like, the long lee enfield. Very long rifle, extremely long bayonet, that'd be a beast at charging
Why bayonets have either whole length single edge or whole length double edge? To my understanding bayonet on the rifle was used mainly like a spear and bayonet in a hand was used mainly as a tool. So It makes sense to have a false blade at least close to the guard to put there a thumb.
@@greenmachine1987 a friend of my owns a Peru Mauser. It's a nice gun indeed but the SMLE just has a special touch to it. Nr4 is the ugly duckling of the family in my eyes. If I ever get a chance to own a rifle (the gun laws are kind of stupid in Germany) it would be an INDIAN mark 3 converted to .308.
The Ishapore Mk3's with the wire banded stocks are pretty unique looking as well. The No.4 is definitely the most utilitarian, the Mk3 is a far better wall-hanger (or club). I just have had much better luck shooting my No4 compared with the Mk3. The aperture sights on the No4 are infinitely better than the leaf and blade sights on the Mk3, and the No4 is more accurate and has a much smoother bolt throw. Triggers are about the same on both of mine. I have a No4 MK1's, the No4 Mk2's (late and post WW2 Mfg) have far better triggers and are by far the most accurate of the bunch. I would strongly consider getting one in .303, not .308, guns always seem to fare better with the round they were designed for, I'd only get the .308 if you absolutely can't get any good surplus .303 ammo, the Greek stuff is the best I've seen on the market.
It's interesting to read ww2 history account from Japanese commanders, who forbid banzai charges unless they were out of ammo or other means to fight. They knew it was stupid and pointless by the time of machine guns and all the modern weapons.. but the thing is, it was still very effective, when they had no more options. I've read some accounts of severe casualties inflicted on the US marines, almost 1:1 despite one side being bayonet + katana vs automatic gun and rifles. One account, a japanese soldier was shot repeatedly and he still kept on charging and killed several marines before finally being put down with a headshot.
I own an unshortened 1907 Pattern! It came on an Ishapore 2A1(the 7.62x51mm NATO chambered SMLE made in the 1960s). Mine's made in April 1915 by Sanderson. Very fun blade.
It was not just reach was not the size of the enemies bayonet. It is because of calvary, And being up against horse mounted troops. But also for use against a horse. Everyone mistakes that it is about reach. You should know better. The shorter bayonet is so much easier to use, and faster. The blade of bayonets where 18-24 inches or more in 1870, by 1914 most were 18-12 inches. By 1918 10 inches was common. By 1945 most bayonets 6-8 inches. The problem becomes much more. Called over penetration. If the bayonet goes thru your target, then sticks in what is behind..... Now you lose both rifle and bayonet.
why is the cutting edge on the bottom and not the top? seems like it would be more effective with it on top (like with your standard AK bayonet) because you have gravity aiding the cut if you stab someone and try to lift them that way.
In the saber collection of the ,Wehrgeschichtliches Museum' ( museum of military history) in Rastatt (Germany) there is the saber of an admiral of the german imperial navy. I was astonished, why there is a strip/layer of copper between the blade and the hilt. The solution: a japanese katana blade with a german hilt/handle of this time. The blade was a present to the german admiral and with the german handle he used it as his service saber.
Rifles with bayonets attached could also be used as a aid to defensive position by pushing the rifle into the ground at a angle. Obviously one man can only fire one weapon ( it utilises weapons of killed soldiers ) but used as pikes in the ground it really aided the defending force. Try running at a trench being shot at and as you get closer you can see the glint coming off the bayonets of the rifles in the ground in a line ahead of the trench....quite demoralising
at 6:09 I'm sort of dubious about the WW2 Bansai charges being "effective". Sure, it scared the crap out of US troops when it was encountered, and is naturally going to be something that stuck with veterans that faced them but I don't recall any instances where Bansai charges were used successfully to take US positions and using that tactic completely negated the the use of their most effective small arms(Type 96/99 LMGs). Especially since by 1942 almost all US troops were issued with either semi-automatic or fully automatic weapons, most Bansai charges never even made it to US lines. Edit: some people are saying I'm forgetting about the bayonet charges used by the Japanese early in the war against forces like the ROC and PRC in China. Those actions were not Banzai charges, Banzai or "gyokusai" were by definition suicide charges and last ditch actions to prevent capture and gain an honorable death. The successful charges early in the war against the Chinese armies can hardly be considered "suicidal" or "last ditch".
ColBunkMust As the war wound on the Americans learned that the Banzai charge signaled the end of Japanese resistance and started to welcome it as it meant the enemy was above ground and easier to kill as opposed to having to dig them out of bunkers. I seem to recall the commander of Iwo Jima forbade Banzai charges, preferring to force the Americans to come to them.
They worked early on but the circumstances were much different then. Once the allies adapted to Jungle fighting, sent better troops, gained air and naval superiority and turned the Japanese on to the defensive it turned into a suicidal charge in most cases. Enemy units penetrating the jungle, passing your lines and then rushing at your flank and rear out of nowhere works well, bayonet charges against allied landings when they know all they have to do is hold the beach and they have air and naval support is just a one sided massacre.
Incidentally, the German Military uses a "westernised tanto"-pattern combat knife as standard issue (the Kampfmesser 2000). I don't know whether it can be attached as a bayonet though.
0:09 Matt, you yourself made a video about how a Katana is not a 'Samurai' Sword as it was used by all soldiers but the 'Wakizashi' is as it was a symbol of holding that station.
is there any explanation of the what the hook on the lower guard on the Japanese rifle bayonet is for? disarming? catching? looks? am i missing anything?
I've heard similar hooks on European bayonets were primarily intended for bayonet fancing, but they look a lot like stacking hooks as well and might be used to make rifle tepees with the bayonets attached.
Would be good to know how the bayonet was used as a trench weapon and another note is that the British army during the AngloBoer war petrified the boers whenever they could with bayonet charges. Brit tactics in the start of WW1 were based on what they learned from the boers. ....
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the British troops actually have a few Japanese Arisaka rifles during the first world war, having purchased a few to bolster some of their ranks?
The British bought 150,000 Japanese Type 30 and Type 38 rifles early in WW1. They were used by the Royal Navy (to free up Lee-Enfields for the frontline) and also as training weapons in the UK. Most of the Arisakas were sent to Imperial Russia, from late 1916.
That's very fascinating. I had no clue of the relation. Long ago I bought a group of bayonets from the widow of a WWII vet. Among other things, it had that pattern of bayonet only Australian marked and dated 1944. The grouping also contained a U.S. bayonet for the M-1 Garand which had been cut down (along with its scabbard) from "sword" length to short, illustrating the changing theories of bayonet warfare in the era.
That (the shortened USA bayonet) would be an M1905 with the factory shortening to M1 bayonet length in the mid 40s. Fun fact the trials bayonets for the pattern 1907 were split between Arisaka derived blades, M1905 derived blades and blades derived from the triangular pattern 1876 or 1895 socket bayonets.
Didn't they call these bayonets swords in the British Army at the beginning of WWI? I am sure the command "Fix swords!" was given before a battle I read about.
knight Owl the first British Army Riflemen had sword bayonets used on the Baker rifle, around 1805. Napoleonic war in Spain and Portugal and later on mainland Europe.
"Fix swords" is only a command in the Rifle Brigade. During the Napoleonic Wars the Rifles were issued with a 24 inch sword bayonet. To compensate for the short barrel of the Baker Rifle (short in comparison to a smoothbore musket's barrel, anyway).
When Matt said at 7:29 that the SMLE (referencing the No. 1) is a better riffle then the No. 4, my Canadian ego and nationalistic pride got bruised... Then I remembered that it wasn't just manufactured in Toronto, Canada as well as the fact that the No. 1 Mk III* is my favorite rifle.
In its original condition, it's not a slashing edged weapon, like a sword. It's all about the pointed thrusting / stabbing tip. The "cutting edge" (be that as it may) is more a profiled edge facsimile that can be sharpened to a cutting edge by the user if or as necessary, but that was not its trench warfare intent.
Interestingly the hooked quilion on the Japanese bayonets is actually derived from the french school of bayonet design (and can be seen on the WW1 era French 1986/93 'Rosalie' bayonet). This was because during the Meiji restoration in the mid 19th century the Japanese sent out a number of fact finding missions to various countries to determine how best to model their modernised military forces, and as part of this they determined that the 'best' methodology of bayonet fighting was the one used by the French army, and hence they adopted french fighting techniques and elements of french bayonet design (although not the cruciform spike design) into their own locally produced rifles and bayonets
The British, Americans, French and Germans had already led the way on machinegun use in the previous four decades. There wasn't much they could learn from the Russians in that regard.
When they switched to the 6 inch spike bayonet SMLE from the 1907 pattern minimalists in the army spoke about how forensic tests in the late 1800's said that a long blade was unnecessary and a small tip only needed to penetrate a man 4 inches to kill .... This was a controversial move with modern military men saying the bayonet was OBSOLETE ...rubbish to a traditional professional soldier who fought the Boer and Malayian in hand to hand fighting . Vicious fighting in Europe and pacific confirmed the relevance of the bayonet yet again ... But they ignored the psycological effect of having to face a literal short sword on the end of a stick and the moral boost it gave men engaged in hand to hand combat in the fog of war who used it in charge ... The bayonet was still put to good effect in close quarters battle even today . Men run out of ammo still ....jammed weapons ..so does your opponent . Be prepared... carry a sharp piece of steel it wont jam or run dry , the enemy does ...
I don't understand the Russia comment? Didn't the Russians lose to the Finns in 1939, the Poles in 1920, the Central Powers in 1917, the Japanese in 1905, the Allies in 1856, and Napoleon's France a bunch of times? Just sayin'
A few years ago i was in a junk shop in Dublin , where i spotted a 1907 with a quillion on sale for 15 pounds , needless to say i very quickly brought it !
I disagree, no need to introduce samurai and curved katana. That kind of point is already present on earlier single edge bayonets as it is natural/cheap. It is not optimal for muzzle loaders, but that’s not a problem here
Making the blade straight actually made it better at stabbing and wire cutting than an actual sword. But no bayonet can beat early pattern French bayonets. Monsterously long blades.
Two points; one- that rifle and that sword are freaking beautiful; two- those barn doors are an excellent backdrop.
Sooo true. I couldn't concentrate for a couple of seconds.
Thanks.
Double door garage with a dirty great sword between them!
I was just about to say the wood on those barn doors looks fantastic.
But no wall of swords!
Ahhh, I remember those old days. Me comparing sword tips with friends. I remember one of my friends had a zweihander, who made a comment about the reach of my tulwar.
I stole his scabbard.
Proof that Edward VII was a massive weeb.
IRL though, he actually respected the Japanese. When the Kaiser started railing on about the "Yellow menace" of the Japanese, Edward basically implied to him that he was full of shit, by casually stating that the only difference he saw between a European and a Japanee guy was skin color.
(Incidentally, the guy was pissed at the use of the N-word--which he deemed an outrage, which gives you an idea of what sort of guy we're dealing with).
LMAO !!!!
@@Albukhshi Truly ahead of his time in not being racist
Bangers and mashimi for everyone!
'Fix bayonets' is one of those orders that doesn't come with a side salad
Just meat.
My father (1st RCR, Sicilian, Italian and Scheldt campaigns) told me that the order, and the noise of "fix bayonets" always cleared a German position without having to actually do a bayonet assault. I'm not sure if that was a singular event, or it happened a couple of times. I don't imagine they were often within shouting distance of each other in that war, at least not in terms of battle lines, so I think it was used infrequently.
all I can think of is the deathcorps of krieg from warhammer 40K
It is a statement to the enemy that not only will you just whatever it takes to win but also do whatever it takes to kill the man ahead of you.
@@rodchallis8031 That's essentially the reason Lloyd from Lindybeige argues that bayonets save lives. He's got a whole video where he essentially said that "no one sticks around to get stabbed with a bayonet"
Was not a reason for the straight top edge of the Model 1907 to make the axis of the point closer to the axis of the rifled pike aka SMLE>
I clicked the title sooo fast i questioned my weebness
i still have my grandfathers ww1 bayonet and did not know this. very interesting also are the britsh bayonets folded steel
No, European blades from this period are made of 'cast steel', which is technically superior to folded steel - you only fold steel to even out the impurities if you are not able to melt it.
That is a historical connection I never would have expected. Thank you for sharing!
Literally moved to Japan today! So thanks for the video I’m just going to assume was made for me :)
Love the little Dads Army reference at the end, “they don’t like it up em”
Just the tip is fine~~
for some reason i remembered mio sakamoto
... I only noticed the huge montante 3 minutes into the video
Great backdrop, by the way
I have been fortunate enough to inherit one of each of those bayonets. They are beautiful in person, and I imagine more so on the end of a rifle. I wondered why they were different, so it's interesting to learn why the longer on is designed that way.
I also have, from what I can tell, an 1856 Pioneer Sawback sword (with Wilkinson markings.) Fascinating thing. Hope too potentially see a video on one at some point.
I really want a pioneer cutlass but not sure i want a sawback. Can you make a video of it to show how the teeth are made, etc?
I have my hands on an American Remington 1917. Definitely a beautiful blade and interesting seeing the evolution of these blades throughout the war
I didn't know that!
One has to remember that influence goes both ways. It's not one way or the other.
Nice to see the new filming location, but the audio needs some adjustment.
Relations between Britain and Japan relations in this period went beyond just being 'friendly'. From 1902 onwards there was a formal alliance between them, which was important in Japan's preparation for war with Russia in 1904. And in WW1 itself, Japan was an active combatant against Germany, taking advantage of the opportunity to snaffle German colonies in the Pacific. Who knew?
DavidB5501 The Russians nearly ended up at war with Britain too thanks to the incompetence of their Baltic fleet IIRC.
@@OnboardG1
Yes, I think on its journey through the North Sea the Russian fleet fired on some British fishing boats, thinking they were Japanese!
I always the understood the long bayonet requirements being derived from the demand for a Rifle/Bayonet combination to outreach a Mounted Cavalryman with a Sabre, rather than a generic "opposition."
Honestly, thats the same concern as having a reach disadvantage. A reach disadvantage is problematic in infantry hand to hand and disastrous against cavalry. Essentially the concern is the same with different magnitudes of negative consequences depending on your opponent.
No wonder I always confused those two bayonets. I was always trying to figure out why a Type 30 was on an Enfield before realizing that they bayo wasn’t a Type 30
The lighting in the barn is excellent for video quality.
I have a 1941 example which is blunted from war use but is quite the effective chopping weapon! Probably due to it's similarity with the Japanese bayonet. It's balance is forward of the hilt and the hefty blade has a strong taper so it cuts through sticks and vines like nothing, very useful.
So the SMLE with its bayonet attached is actually more a naginata than a spear
That was the reasoning behind so many nations switching to a sword/knife bayonet from a spike. The bladed bayonet essentially turned the rifle into a glaive, giving the soldier the option of thrusting and slashing, as opposed to just the thrust with a spike, like the Russians and French bayonets of the time.
I highly doubt that. The whole balance is so off, if would never work well for slashing, while stabbing is still much more damaging with less effort.
Bayonet fighting is a completely different school to both the spear and naginata.
Incidentally, sporterized bayonet fighting in Japan survives in the form of Jukendo.
Jukendo tournament: ua-cam.com/video/hRmDygXUc-Q/v-deo.html
Jukendo vs Naginata sparring: ua-cam.com/video/7K-e5BB1rX0/v-deo.html
The Australian 4th Light Horse Brigade (mounted infantry) used their 1907 pattern bayonets in lieu of swords during the attack on the wells at Beersheba in 1917. Slashing at Turks with these bayonets from horseback worked extremely well and won the day. Stabbing would only have resulted in the loss of the bayonets, which are often referred to as "sword bayonets" by military historians. The film "The Lighthorsemen" recreated this attack fairly accurately, including the use of these sword bayonets to slash rather than stab.
Just astonishing...
Thank you for uploading another video from a Japanese fan!
Does this mean that a reproduction of the 1907 Pattern would be banned in the UK as a 'samurai sword' and therefore an 'offensive weapon'?
I wouldnt be surprised if it was hahahaha. Our continent is a comedy sometimes. Last month I finally got my... sword license here in Greece and my friends in Italy are on the process of having theirs issued too. Sword license dude, background checks and phyciatrical evaluation and all that. Consider yourself VERY lucky you dont have that one at least in Britain and can have as many swords as you like. The cops said they wont issue me more than 10 in the future (one license= one sword).
To be fair, any court that ruled a bayonet *wasn't* an offensive weapon would have to be several sandwiches short of a picnic
@Bill Whittaker depends where you put the water pistol... yeah, that'd be pretty offensive all right.
@@MrPanos2000 as a Greek American I guess I'll stay in America thn..
That samurai sword looks like a high quality example. Can you do a video giving it a closer look?
I think its dynasty forge one. It has been in few videos already. I think he will eventually review all dynasty forges blades he received
@@lalli8152 if I had a dollar for every "eventual" Matt video...
Please do make a Mk. 3 Vs No. 4 video. I have both and have always preferred the No. 4 in terms of functionality.
Yeah I don't think there's much of an argument for the SMLE being a better rifle. It just _looks_ nicer, aesthetically.
I suspect that No.4s were being generally made to lower standards due to wartime resource pressures - if you look at photos of D-Day preparations you'll see paras armed with SMLEs in preference to No.4s. And the SMLE was prevalent in the Far East, by both British and Indian forces. To me the No.4 feels like a budget version.
As the No.4 only started production in 1941 there were still whole units armed with the No1Mk3. We sent over 50,000 from Australia to lend a hand when things kicked off. The Ishapore and Lithgow production was high enough that British units transferring to the far east turned in their No4's and were issued No1Mk3's from Indian and Australian stocks.
@@scholagladiatoria I can appreciate what you mean, they definitely simplified some aspects of the design to reduce machining time and reduce weight. To me, and it might just be my examples, but my No.4 has a smoother and faster bolt throw than the Mk3.
@@scholagladiatoria Given that WW1 SMLEs were manufactured in a peddled system, I wouldn't hold out too much hope of them being higher quality :)
A very honorable bayonet.
Extremery honourabru
"India, Africa and Elsweyr"? I didn't know the British Empire colonized the Khajiiti?
I have had a model 1907 SMLE bayonet and scabbard for now close to 50 years. Many people don't know that, in addition to Wilkinson, there were several other manufacturers, one of which was Chapman. The one I own is a Chapman, manufactured 1916, and oddly enough it still retains the original bluing, which is actually more gray then anything else. Based on that, I assume that this particular bayonet did not see combat service. I know where I got it, (US), but I forget what I paid for it.... I bought it from a friend, and I don't think I paid any more than about $10 for it at the time. What a bargain !
🎶Captain Context
He's a hero
Gonna get specific with his info🎶
Naginata rifle? Awesome!
Nice job slipping in a reference to Dad's Army. They don't like it up 'em. They do not like it up 'em!
I always wondered as compared to who? Does anyone _like_ it up em? The French perhaps?
@@lancerd4934 Well, Corporal Jones never was very specific. Zulus don't like it up 'em, fuzzy wuzzies don't like it up 'em, Italians and Germans don't like it up 'em.
So you can cut atoms and split tanks with 1907 pattern British bayonets, who knew
Apparently, Bayonet also have its own Japanese MA, called "Jukendo," just like naginata & sword fighting schools.
Most of the schools of jukendo actually derive from a 19th century British Army manual of arms for bayonet fighting, variously modified over time. The Japanese Army adopted the British Army's manual and then independent schools sprang up in Japan over time as a martial art in its own right. Possibly the only "Japanese" martial art to have come from Britain.
Really? I thought that bayonet fighting was a sport that started in France, and since the IJA was basically copying the French Army, up until the Franco-Prussian war had ended, I had always thought that Jukendo came from French bayonet training, not British. @@iatsd
Great video sir
The hook quillon is similar to the japanese Jitte too, although that maybe more of a convergent evolution thing since they seem to start popping up on european bayos in the 1860's.
Warms my frozen heart to see Matt holding my favorite rifle in the world.... More so to hear that he actually shoots it! One of mine is a 1916 BSA with a 1916-dated P1907 Wilkinson bayonet. Now I think I'll need go out to my back yard and go through a magazine or two (or, rather, a magazine and a couple chargers)…..
Cheers Matt 🎉 thank you for the videos ! I simply cannot get enough context
Did anyone else notice the picture of British infantry in the First World War has a creepy ghost-like face in it? It's around knee-level of the left leg of the man closest to the camera.
as I said before. This is a very nice SMLE! :-)
Gorgeous rifle.
Next up - video on the Rosalie ? :)
"by that point, the French as well [were doctrinally enclined to use the bayonet]"
Well to be fair, France was doctrinally into shock tactics from the Revolution up to WW1 - with the exception of the late 2nd Empire, whose defeat in 1870 only encouraged the High Command to put shock back as the core tactic.
And the last time French soldiers charged with their bayonets was in 1994 in Sarajevo.
I think that's the last time the French charged anywhere in the battle
@@jamessullivan586 Well, I mean, charging *without* bayonets doesn't bring you much ; you're basically just running from cover to cover.
@@MadManchou You can also charge with lances or sab(er/re)s or those things that get called sab(er/re)s but definitely aren't. I don't think France had any horse cavalry by 1994, though.
Yes, although that was only at platoon or company strength from memory.
A better example is the Falklands where whole battalions charged up the hillsides. There is Argentinian video testimony of facing screaming paras with bayonets fixed. They were also used lethally once the positions were reached
for the lenght of the bsyonet's blade I'll say that it would be clasified as a kodachi
Ive got one of these!
Thanks for the info!!
Fascinating
I got a similar bayonet from a knife shop when I was a teenager. I had no idea what it was, but I knew it was old a British. They were in a barrel and covered in cosmoline with CETME bayonets. I got one of each. I pulled it out a couple years ago and realized it was a Wilkerson. One of the few times mall ninja teenager me made a good decision.
I wonder if you could put an M1907 bayonet on an MLE, like, the long lee enfield. Very long rifle, extremely long bayonet, that'd be a beast at charging
Why bayonets have either whole length single edge or whole length double edge? To my understanding bayonet on the rifle was used mainly like a spear and bayonet in a hand was used mainly as a tool. So It makes sense to have a false blade at least close to the guard to put there a thumb.
Is that a claymore behind Matt's back?
Good that it has the blood groove, so it is not blocked in enemies body after stabbing.
I feel triggered
Do it. Be triggered. Do it. DO IT.
The SMLE is the prettiest rifle in existence, in my humble opinion.
I love the look of it as well. I always wanted one since I watched Lawrence of Arabia as a kid (and it's still my favourite movie).
I have and shoot a No 4
Iconic, for sure. Also credit to the original Gewehr 1898. The Peruvian Export models are still stunning.
@@greenmachine1987 a friend of my owns a Peru Mauser. It's a nice gun indeed but the SMLE just has a special touch to it. Nr4 is the ugly duckling of the family in my eyes.
If I ever get a chance to own a rifle (the gun laws are kind of stupid in Germany) it would be an INDIAN mark 3 converted to .308.
The Ishapore Mk3's with the wire banded stocks are pretty unique looking as well. The No.4 is definitely the most utilitarian, the Mk3 is a far better wall-hanger (or club). I just have had much better luck shooting my No4 compared with the Mk3. The aperture sights on the No4 are infinitely better than the leaf and blade sights on the Mk3, and the No4 is more accurate and has a much smoother bolt throw. Triggers are about the same on both of mine. I have a No4 MK1's, the No4 Mk2's (late and post WW2 Mfg) have far better triggers and are by far the most accurate of the bunch.
I would strongly consider getting one in .303, not .308, guns always seem to fare better with the round they were designed for, I'd only get the .308 if you absolutely can't get any good surplus .303 ammo, the Greek stuff is the best I've seen on the market.
It's interesting to read ww2 history account from Japanese commanders, who forbid banzai charges unless they were out of ammo or other means to fight. They knew it was stupid and pointless by the time of machine guns and all the modern weapons.. but the thing is, it was still very effective, when they had no more options. I've read some accounts of severe casualties inflicted on the US marines, almost 1:1 despite one side being bayonet + katana vs automatic gun and rifles. One account, a japanese soldier was shot repeatedly and he still kept on charging and killed several marines before finally being put down with a headshot.
I own an unshortened 1907 Pattern! It came on an Ishapore 2A1(the 7.62x51mm NATO chambered SMLE made in the 1960s). Mine's made in April 1915 by Sanderson. Very fun blade.
What advantages does this bayonet have compared to other patterns ?
Rami Bairi its been folded a thousand times and is sharp enough to cut throught a tank 😛
I'm enjoying this discussion of reach... in front of a massive Zweihänder.
"passively influenced" the main point of this video.
It was not just reach was not the size of the enemies bayonet.
It is because of calvary,
And being up against horse mounted troops. But also for use against a horse.
Everyone mistakes that it is about reach. You should know better. The shorter bayonet is so much easier to use, and faster. The blade of bayonets where 18-24 inches or more in 1870, by 1914 most were 18-12 inches. By 1918 10 inches was common. By 1945 most bayonets 6-8 inches.
The problem becomes much more. Called over penetration. If the bayonet goes thru your target, then sticks in what is behind.....
Now you lose both rifle and bayonet.
Knut Der Große Nevertheless lances and quarter staff were throughout history longer than your view of optimal
why is the cutting edge on the bottom and not the top? seems like it would be more effective with it on top (like with your standard AK bayonet) because you have gravity aiding the cut if you stab someone and try to lift them that way.
Probably for slashing up and right swinging down and left... well down in relation to rifle. Like a machete is used.
In the saber collection of the ,Wehrgeschichtliches Museum' ( museum of military history) in Rastatt (Germany) there is the saber of an admiral of the german imperial navy. I was astonished, why there is a strip/layer of copper between the blade and the hilt. The solution: a japanese katana blade with a german hilt/handle of this time. The blade was a present to the german admiral and with the german handle he used it as his service saber.
Probably the admiral received a katana, not just the blade. Katanas can be taken apart without much effort.
@ARX351: It was some years ago, when i was in this museum the last time. So i do not rember the correct words of the display text.
Rifles with bayonets attached could also be used as a aid to defensive position by pushing the rifle into the ground at a angle. Obviously one man can only fire one weapon ( it utilises weapons of killed soldiers ) but used as pikes in the ground it really aided the defending force. Try running at a trench being shot at and as you get closer you can see the glint coming off the bayonets of the rifles in the ground in a line ahead of the trench....quite demoralising
at 6:09 I'm sort of dubious about the WW2 Bansai charges being "effective". Sure, it scared the crap out of US troops when it was encountered, and is naturally going to be something that stuck with veterans that faced them but I don't recall any instances where Bansai charges were used successfully to take US positions and using that tactic completely negated the the use of their most effective small arms(Type 96/99 LMGs). Especially since by 1942 almost all US troops were issued with either semi-automatic or fully automatic weapons, most Bansai charges never even made it to US lines.
Edit: some people are saying I'm forgetting about the bayonet charges used by the Japanese early in the war against forces like the ROC and PRC in China. Those actions were not Banzai charges, Banzai or "gyokusai" were by definition suicide charges and last ditch actions to prevent capture and gain an honorable death. The successful charges early in the war against the Chinese armies can hardly be considered "suicidal" or "last ditch".
The US was only one of many enemies the Japanese fought in WW2.
ColBunkMust
As the war wound on the Americans learned that the Banzai charge signaled the end of Japanese resistance and started to welcome it as it meant the enemy was above ground and easier to kill as opposed to having to dig them out of bunkers. I seem to recall the commander of Iwo Jima forbade Banzai charges, preferring to force the Americans to come to them.
He's probably referring more to battles against the Chinese, who weren't anywhere near as well equipped as the US.
They worked early on but the circumstances were much different then. Once the allies adapted to Jungle fighting, sent better troops, gained air and naval superiority and turned the Japanese on to the defensive it turned into a suicidal charge in most cases. Enemy units penetrating the jungle, passing your lines and then rushing at your flank and rear out of nowhere works well, bayonet charges against allied landings when they know all they have to do is hold the beach and they have air and naval support is just a one sided massacre.
@@J_n.. the vast majority of causalities inflicted on the Japanese military were conducted by US forces
Incidentally, the German Military uses a "westernised tanto"-pattern combat knife as standard issue (the Kampfmesser 2000).
I don't know whether it can be attached as a bayonet though.
KM2000 is not designed to be attached as a bayonet
Matt thank you for your as always exhaustive videos...
...would it be then possible a Bloke on the range connection/ video? 🙂
0:09 Matt, you yourself made a video about how a Katana is not a 'Samurai' Sword as it was used by all soldiers but the 'Wakizashi' is as it was a symbol of holding that station.
Thank God for the Empire.
was the "they don't like it up um"' a Dad's Army reference? what a win lol
cpl Jones?
@@najroe permission to speak sir, yess indeed jones
Well, you learn something new every day. Thanks for the upload, very informative cheers.
I didn't know this. Now I do.
is there any explanation of the what the hook on the lower guard on the Japanese rifle bayonet is for? disarming? catching? looks? am i missing anything?
I've heard similar hooks on European bayonets were primarily intended for bayonet fancing, but they look a lot like stacking hooks as well and might be used to make rifle tepees with the bayonets attached.
It should be to catch blades. Funfact, late war versions did away with the hook to cheapen it.
Did they make loadsamoney from those rifles?
If I'm not mistaken the JGSDF still use old, but updated, designs similar to this, right?
I want that zweihander!
Is the tang bent on the sword behind you? Or is it the camera angle.
It is slightly, yes.
Daam thats a shame
Would be good to know how the bayonet was used as a trench weapon and another note is that the British army during the AngloBoer war petrified the boers whenever they could with bayonet charges. Brit tactics in the start of WW1 were based on what they learned from the boers. ....
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the British troops actually have a few Japanese Arisaka rifles during the first world war, having purchased a few to bolster some of their ranks?
The British bought 150,000 Japanese Type 30 and Type 38 rifles early in WW1.
They were used by the Royal Navy (to free up Lee-Enfields for the frontline) and also as training weapons in the UK.
Most of the Arisakas were sent to Imperial Russia, from late 1916.
@@kevinoliver3083 I knew I wasn't imagining things! Cheers for the update on this ancient comment of mine
That's very fascinating. I had no clue of the relation. Long ago I bought a group of bayonets from the widow of a WWII vet. Among other things, it had that pattern of bayonet only Australian marked and dated 1944. The grouping also contained a U.S. bayonet for the M-1 Garand which had been cut down (along with its scabbard) from "sword" length to short, illustrating the changing theories of bayonet warfare in the era.
That (the shortened USA bayonet) would be an M1905 with the factory shortening to M1 bayonet length in the mid 40s.
Fun fact the trials bayonets for the pattern 1907 were split between Arisaka derived blades, M1905 derived blades and blades derived from the triangular pattern 1876 or 1895 socket bayonets.
@@TasDave Great info, Dave, thanks for sharing. I Google image searched M1905 and you are correct. That is exactly the type of bayonet it was.
Guardsmen! Fix bayonets. For the Emperor! Charge!
damnit, now I want a japan style imperial planet
@loki katzbalger thanks for the pointer
What about a Brittish stile 1907 pattern bayonet with very distinct ridges on the handle? I think they are Danish but I don't know.
Didn't they call these bayonets swords in the British Army at the beginning of WWI? I am sure the command "Fix swords!" was given before a battle I read about.
knight Owl the first British Army Riflemen had sword bayonets used on the Baker rifle, around 1805. Napoleonic war in Spain and Portugal and later on mainland Europe.
"Fix swords" is only a command in the Rifle Brigade.
During the Napoleonic Wars the Rifles were issued with a 24 inch sword bayonet. To compensate for the short barrel of the Baker Rifle (short in comparison to a smoothbore musket's barrel, anyway).
Watching this video, I think we know where the whole "gun makes a sound every time it moves" movie trope comes from...
Hell of an interest point! Makes me appreciate mine that much more.
I've actually always wondered about this but thought I was crazy for seeing a similarity. Super interesting
When Matt said at 7:29 that the SMLE (referencing the No. 1) is a better riffle then the No. 4, my Canadian ego and nationalistic pride got bruised... Then I remembered that it wasn't just manufactured in Toronto, Canada as well as the fact that the No. 1 Mk III* is my favorite rifle.
I would like to hear the reasons he believes exist for the SMLE being better than the No 4. (I know of none; maybe I will learn something).
How well does it cut? Attached & detached?
In its original condition, it's not a slashing edged weapon, like a sword. It's all about the pointed thrusting / stabbing tip. The "cutting edge" (be that as it may) is more a profiled edge facsimile that can be sharpened to a cutting edge by the user if or as necessary, but that was not its trench warfare intent.
i guess with this design the tip is a little closer to the centerline I wonder if that is helpful at all
I really hope that Superdry company gives you free shirts for all the free sponsorship you do
that is a beautiful SMLE did you restore it yourself?
Thanks - no, it's just been well looked after and was re-barreled for use in WW2.
Interestingly the hooked quilion on the Japanese bayonets is actually derived from the french school of bayonet design (and can be seen on the WW1 era French 1986/93 'Rosalie' bayonet). This was because during the Meiji restoration in the mid 19th century the Japanese sent out a number of fact finding missions to various countries to determine how best to model their modernised military forces, and as part of this they determined that the 'best' methodology of bayonet fighting was the one used by the French army, and hence they adopted french fighting techniques and elements of french bayonet design (although not the cruciform spike design) into their own locally produced rifles and bayonets
Interesting.
they should have better looked for the effective and devastating use of machine guns by the Russians in that war.
The British, Americans, French and Germans had already led the way on machinegun use in the previous four decades. There wasn't much they could learn from the Russians in that regard.
Last time I was this early there was still a British empire
So, 1997?
When they switched to the 6 inch spike bayonet SMLE from the 1907 pattern minimalists in the army spoke about how forensic tests in the late 1800's said that a long blade was unnecessary and a small tip only needed to penetrate a man 4 inches to kill ....
This was a controversial move with modern military men saying the bayonet was OBSOLETE ...rubbish to a traditional professional soldier who fought the Boer and Malayian in hand to hand fighting .
Vicious fighting in Europe and pacific confirmed the relevance of the bayonet yet again ...
But they ignored the psycological effect of having to face a literal short sword on the end of a stick and the moral boost it gave men engaged in hand to hand combat in the fog of war who used it in charge ...
The bayonet was still put to good effect in close quarters battle even today .
Men run out of ammo still ....jammed weapons ..so does your opponent .
Be prepared... carry a sharp piece of steel it wont jam or run dry , the enemy does ...
I search _samurai bayonet_ to see if i can attach my katana to my AR-15. Proud to say I left this video educated.
I don't understand the Russia comment? Didn't the Russians lose to the Finns in 1939, the Poles in 1920, the Central Powers in 1917, the Japanese in 1905, the Allies in 1856, and Napoleon's France a bunch of times? Just sayin'
Stick the Mongols in there as well, who occupied them for centuries
@@angloirishcad
And Sweden too
@@MattCellaneous And Poland, who occupied Moscow
how much would it be?
A few years ago i was in a junk shop in Dublin , where i spotted a 1907 with a quillion on sale for 15 pounds , needless to say i very quickly brought it !
I disagree, no need to introduce samurai and curved katana. That kind of point is already present on earlier single edge bayonets as it is natural/cheap. It is not optimal for muzzle loaders, but that’s not a problem here
Making the blade straight actually made it better at stabbing and wire cutting than an actual sword.
But no bayonet can beat early pattern French bayonets. Monsterously long blades.