How to install a smart thermostat for 240v/120v baseboard heat
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- Опубліковано 25 сер 2024
- Read more here for step-by-step instructions! This tutorial aims to teach you how to install smart thermostats for your line voltage baseboard heaters using an electric heat relay.
I only recommend products I would use myself, and all opinions expressed here are my own. Product links below may be affiliate links from which I may earn a small commission.
Tools needed:
Wire strippers - amzn.to/3PGrrzl
Drill - amzn.to/3rdzo4M
3/4" Spade bit - amzn.to/3pu0Mew
Screwdrivers - amzn.to/3JznU28
Pliers - amzn.to/3NzTEVJ
Wire nuts - amzn.to/3PDsLmx
Products:
Amazon smart thermostat - amzn.to/3r8OVD7
Aube Electric Heat Relay - amzn.to/3NTMpJF
Low voltage junction box: old work (remodel) - amzn.to/44ogTJb
Low voltage junction box: new work (access to studs) - amzn.to/3XAxcRi
18/5 thermostat wire - amzn.to/3rb6AtX
(Maybe) Baseboard heater - amzn.to/44qXV4N
I should have included a diagram in the video. Here is a written description, for a project where you're cutting into the wall:
1. A 240v breaker at your circuit breaker box supplies power to one or more 240v baseboard/wall heaters
2. The power cord for an individual heater needs to be located inside the wall (preferably right next to a stud)
3a. Because of stud & wire location, it'll be easiest to mount your thermostat & relay above your heater so that all the wiring is in the same stud bay/section. Otherwise you'll have to open up more of the wall and drill holes through studs to run wire through studs.
3b. Identify where you want your thermostat to be, and drill a very small hole for your thermostat wire to come out of. Your thermostat will sit right on top (in front) of this wire.
4. Cut a hole in the wall for a junction box (as seen in video), preferably in an inconspicuous spot, very near to the thermostat wire.
5. Insert thermostat wire (with a lot of extra, so you've got plenty to work with) into the small hole, and run it to the junction box cutout.
6a. Because you'll need enough length in the 240v power wire to strip it and make new connections, you may need to run new wire to the heater. I recommend removing the heater, pulling up/out (through the junction box hole) the power cord that went to it, and cutting it to give yourself long enough wires to strip and connect. Run a new piece of wire from the junction box cutout down to the heater cutout, again leaving enough length on both ends (wire sticking out) for the new connections, as seen in the video.
6b. Per 6a, split the 240v power wire and run both ends (the wire from the breaker and wire from the heater) to the junction box cutout.
7. Attach your relay to the junction box as seen in the video.
8. Connect the thermostat wire to the relay as seen in the video.
9. Set your junction box in the wall, pulling in the wiring from both the breaker and heater.
10a. If your 240v wiring has just a black, white, and copper wire, then both the black and white wires are "hot" and should be connected as seen in the video.
10b. If you've got 4 wires, with two blacks or red and black + white and copper, then your non-white/non-copper wires are probably hot, and your second hot wire will take the place of the white wire in the video. It's worth using a voltage tester to double check which wires are hot.
11. Connect the new run of wire from the junction box down to the heater cutout, to your heater, as seen in the video.
12. Connect your thermostat wire to the thermostat as seen in the video (may vary depending on your 24v smart thermostat)
*NOTE: In the video, over the final minute or so, the left white wire is 12gauge wire coming from the circuit breaker, through a stud, to the relay junction, and the left yellow wire is 12gauge (exactly the same as the white) going from the relay to the heater. You can ignore everything else (wiring, junctions, etc) to the right of the thermostat.
Baseboard heater image credit
www.flickr.com... - baseboard photo
www.homespothq... - creator
creativecommon... - license
Thank you! This is exactly what I was looking for. I’m shocked that nobody makes this.
Me to!
!!!!! I havnt been looking for this type of install video!!!!!! Thank you so much, very clear and understandable. Everything else I found was extremely long winded and didn’t even explain how to convert for baseboard heaters, thank you!
Thanks! Gonna have an electrician come out soon and try this for my radiant ceiling heat with 240 V. Just bought all the stuff you said you needed so I would have it when they get here. 👍
Love to hear it!
This is the exact thing I am trying to do. I guess the next step is hyping myself into making a hole in the wall.
One problem with the junction box you used is if you ever have to replace the relay, you will need to cut open the drywall. There’s not enough space in that box to unscrew the relay and pull it out the front. But you could just cover the junction box with a larger access panel.
Huh… not sure that’s true, cause you should be able to just unscrew it, turn it sideways, and pull it out from the front. Granted it would probably be a little difficult. Haven’t tried it though, so it’s possible you’re correct. Another good reason to put the opening and wall plate in an inconspicuous spot.
Awesome video. I didn't know These relayes existed.
Excellent job. You helped me greatly!!
So glad to hear it!
Thanks you for this video. It helped me .
Glad it helped!
What’s the difference between the sets?
Will this same setup work if I have two 240v heaters?
I did this exact install just a note if you are using a nest thermostat for this the relay in the video will not work. The relay transformer is not big enough to power the nest and will cause your batteries to drain. So you either need to use a thermostat that does short cycles or buy a different relay like this one that has a larger transformer that is meant for long cycling thermostats.
Which relay did you find worked for the nest? I'm seeing mixed reviews on compatibility with the nest for this 240V relay, but the 120V model of that same relay (RC840T-120) seems very much compatible.
I'd suggest to get a Sinopé smart thermostat, these are design for convection and baseboard heater, 120/240v 3000w or 4000w models are available. They support most smart home integration, even Apple homekit.
Only thing is that it's not quite as "pretty" or modern as some of the more popular smart thermostats, which is the main reason I went the route the video shows. But yeah - there are definitely more purpose-built thermostats out there.
Hello
Great details in the video.
Can I use this method to connect my 120v thermostat to 24v Amazon thermostat?
My baseboard heaters are connected to my furnace directly (I am unable to figure out which box )
I'm not 100% sure what you're asking. I don't think it makes sense to have 2 thermostats controlling the same furnace/heater. If your baseboards come on when your furnace comes on, then they're all controlled by your furnace thermostat. The method in the video would require disconnecting your baseboards from your furnace, and then running dedicated power (circuits from the panel) to them and the relay, as shown in the vid. There are ways to swap out your existing thermostat for a smart thermostat, and some of the same concepts apply as the video, but it'd be a slightly different process.
You can actually have both 24v and 220/120 in side the any hvac system Atleast from what I was taught when I went to school for an example air conditioning unit as both as well as a furnace I have also seen baseboard run both as well.
How can we check?
Will this work if I have two 4k heaters on separate circuits? Can I control both if I add relays.
Hmmm good question. I’m assuming “yes,” but the wiring would look a bit different. You’d have to power the thermostat with one of the circuits, then control the second relay (remember the relays are simply switched on and off by the thermostat) using a branch of thermostat wire.
Great video. Now why wouldn’t they offer a 220/240 thermostat to begin with is my question?
Probably because baseboards are a pretty old technology, so "modern" smart thermostats aren't optimized for them.
This looks cool but there’s a simpler alternative. I used a mysa thermostat designed for electric baseboard heaters. Their support team is really helpful. $120 I think. There’s another brand that makes one too..
The problem with Mysa and the other brands - at the time I did this project - was A) they were having a lot of reported issues with lots of Wi-Fi systems, and B) I didn’t like the look/interface of their products. They also (according to reviews) didn’t integrate consistently well with Alexa or Google home.
Thanks for this video and explanation. Very helpful!
Questions:
Would it be possible to set up a one thermostat for 2 baseboards in the same room? I was so depressed that the electrical contractor didn't hook up any thermostats, and the baseboards just have off, low, med, high! Who would run around to all the rooms and keep adjusting them separately.
Does the Alexa/Amazon app allow you to see all the thermostats with different names?
Yes - as long as the heaters are both okay to be on the same circuit (i.e. they don't draw too much power; most don't), you would would wire them up in parallel to the relay, which is controlled by one thermostat. And yes the thermostats can all have their own names :)
@@sheawilliamson7732 Thanks!
I was wondering if there is much noise from this relay when it engages? In another application I use a 30A contactor to turn on/off the heat entirely for my garage office which makes a loud "clunking" style of noise when it engages and that's OK for turning the whole heating system on/off but much to loud and noisy for all day cycling as the thermostat calls for heat and satisfies so just wondering if there is any noticeable noise from this relay? Thanks.
No the relay and thermostat are small and quiet; the heater turning on is the only "clunking" noise I've ever heard.
Great video! How would you wire this with a 240 volts at the old thermostat? So there are 2 hots along with the line and load neutrals. What would you do with the 2nd hot?
So in my case I didn’t have a neutral (or ‘common’ wire) - both the black and white were hot. In your case, you won’t actually connect the neutral to anything - just use your black and red like I did with my black and white
Hi, your video was very helpful. I don’t have electric baseboards, I have a standard oil burner furnace that runs hot water through the baseboards. I purchased a smart thermostat, then realized that I have a lime heating system. There’s thick wires behind my wall with wire nuts. Therefore I cannot use the smart thermostat, that’s how I found your video. My question is when I wired exactly the same for baseboard heating that comes from my oil burner furnace? Unfortunately I cannot share photos here but I did take some photos of the wiring as it is now
Sounds like you probably already have a thermostat controlling your system. you wouldn't want to put a second thermostat between your first thermostat/furnace and your baseboards, as the second thermostat will only work if the first thermostat/furnace is turned on, which may not be the case if it's already the right temperature in your first room. The method in the video is meant for independently powered baseboard heaters.
@@sheawilliamson7732 I was actually thinking of replacing the existing thermostat. It has 2 thick wires (1 black, 1 White) with wire caps connecting thin gauge wires to the thermostat. Black wire connected to a thin wire going to RH with a jumper to RC and the White wire has a small gauge wire connecting to W.
@@crushrreviews ah I see. I suppose the method in this video could work then, assuming it's a 240v circuit and both black & white are hot wires coming from your breaker box. the fact that your thick gauge wires are connected directly to thin gauge is odd, though, and potentially a fire hazard. I'd need to have a better idea of all your wiring to know for sure. An electrician would definitely be able to determine the right approach.
@@sheawilliamson7732 thank you. I appreciate your patience with me. The digital thermostat I have on there now is not a smart thermostat, but it was installed by a licensed electrician when I had my furnace replaced several years ago. I checked the instructions for that particular thermostat that I have on the wall and it does say it’s a 24 V thermostat. I’m guessing those thicker wires are not necessarily coming from the panel. I will attempt the installation and definitely get back to you on the results.
@@crushrreviews sounds good! and if you already have a 24v thermostat installed, then you should be able to simply swap it with a smart thermostat - probably don't need a relay.
Thanks for this… what is the make of the heater with blower… been looking for something like this for awhile.
In the description!
Could you post some plans please ? I would really appreciate it. A simple drawing would really help me: I kind of lost you at some point.
I should have included a diagram in the vid - sorry about that. Let me know if this written description helps or not, for a project where you're cutting into the wall:
1. A 240v breaker at your circuit breaker box supplies power to one or more 240v baseboard/wall heaters
2. The power cord for an individual heater needs to be located inside the wall (preferably right next to a stud)
3a. Because of stud & wire location, it'll be easiest to mount your thermostat & relay above your heater so that all the wiring is in the same stud bay/section. Otherwise you'll have to open up more of the wall and drill holes through studs to run wire through studs.
3b. Identify where you want your thermostat to be, and drill a very small hole for your thermostat wire to come out of. Your thermostat will sit right on top (in front) of this wire.
4. Cut a hole in the wall for a junction box (as seen in video), preferably in an inconspicuous spot, very near to the thermostat wire.
5. Insert thermostat wire (with a lot of extra, so you've got plenty to work with) into the small hole, and run it to the junction box cutout.
6a. Because you'll need enough length in the 240v power wire to strip it and make new connections, you may need to run new wire to the heater. I recommend removing the heater, pulling up/out (through the junction box hole) the power cord that went to it, and cutting it to give yourself long enough wires to strip and connect. Run a new piece of wire from the junction box cutout down to the heater cutout, again leaving enough length on both ends (wire sticking out) for the new connections, as seen in the video.
6b. Per 6a, split the 240v power wire and run both ends (the wire from the breaker and wire from the heater) to the junction box cutout.
7. Attach your relay to the junction box as seen in the video.
8. Connect the thermostat wire to the relay as seen in the video.
9. Set your junction box in the wall, pulling in the wiring from both the breaker and heater.
10a. If your 240v wiring has just a black, white, and copper wire, then both the black and white wires are "hot" and should be connected as seen in the video.
10b. If you've got 4 wires, with two blacks or red and black + white and copper, then your non-white/non-copper wires are probably hot, and your second hot wire will take the place of the white wire in the video. It's worth using a voltage tester to double check which wires are hot.
11. Connect the new run of wire from the junction box down to the heater cutout, to your heater, as seen in the video.
12. Connect your thermostat wire to the thermostat as seen in the video (may vary depending on your 24v smart thermostat)
*NOTE: In the video, over the final minute or so, the left white wire is 12gauge wire coming from the circuit breaker, through a stud, to the relay junction, and the left yellow wire is 12gauge (exactly the same as the white) going from the relay to the heater. You can ignore everything else (wiring, junctions, etc) to the right of the thermostat.
Hello, you said to connect all the white wires which you called common wires. Is this not 240? There should be no common wire correct? That relay wouldn't work for 120v heater, or would it?
Yes - you’re correct. For 120v you’d want their 120v relay www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwjc99DR_5X6AhWYH60GHa-OADQYABAPGgJwdg&ohost=www.google.com&cid=CAESa-D2aeLLuHFqQ-fucPtEqPQaRPXvZzQvkBUy3-HRfmbGolUyknosFfn3NriuZJhbRprhC90ZkhSqh7QOdJlw6jeQZdiW4Vec1MSLyqCnualSJde8i8ikTo47co-K0jxPIhCnGEXjtavfI95i&sig=AOD64_2B9O8Rda0_xerarzAg6W0m_j7f1Q&ctype=5&q=&ved=2ahUKEwj6x8bR_5X6AhXhJX0KHQflAYYQwg8oAHoECAYQCg&adurl=
It comes with instructions, and I bet they would involve just the single (black) hot wire.
Thanks for the video. I notice the relay says 240V to 24V built in transformer. Can I still use this relay for 120V to 24V?
They make a 120v relay as well - use that one instead. www.amazon.com/Technologies-RC840T-120-Electromechanical-Relay-Built/dp/B00D5YLY2G/ref=sr_1_20?keywords=120v+relay&qid=1668028110&sr=8-20
The 240v one probably has too much resistance to work correctly with a lower voltage.
Thanks for the video! Most of the baseboard heater is separate with its own control in each room. Does it mean we would need one smart thermostat in each room? Or is there a way to make one central control for all the baseboard heaters?
You would need 1 thermostat per heater, because it sounds like each heater has its own dedicated wiring running to it, and the thermostat is just an interrupter switch for each run of wire. Each room should usually have its own thermostat because each room probably heats up/cools down at a different rate, and you wouldn't want a thermostat in a large/cold room to switch on and start heating a smaller room that's already warm.
Technically, if you had multiple heaters in one room (or in a couple of rooms) that shared power/wiring, you could install one thermostat and relay to control them all, as long as they were installed early enough in the circuit before the wiring split to each heater. You shouldn't see more than 2 120v heaters on the same 240v circuit, fwiw.
Do you know how to connect this relay to make it work on a old fan coil AC 120?? That would be an amazing video 😂
Old AC are high voltage and no smart thermostat compatibles :(
Sorry for the late reply, but I believe that's exactly what this video addresses! All my baseboards are coils with fans, all 240v. Smart thermostats don't work with them because these thermostats are low voltage - so we use the relay (in the video) to handle the voltage, and the thermostat just turns the relay on/off via low voltage.
Does this work with a line/ high voltage thermostat and my heating is an oil fired furnace that has hot water baseboards ? Your demo is for an electric baseboard
Depends on your specific setup and wiring. I'm assuming the new thermostat would control your furnace? I haven't played around with this method controlling a furnace, just individual heaters. Here, we have full 240v running through the relay and to the heater - the thermostat just switches the relay on/off. With furnaces, the thermostat often connects directly to the furnace with 24v thermostat wire, sending a signal to the furnace control board (at the furnace) to switch on/off. If you've got larger gauge wire running between your thermostat and furnace, and the thermostat itself is the switch - shutting your furnace on/off - then yeah maybe this video method would work, with the relay acting as the switch, controlled by a smart thermostat. Not sure how common that is, though.
Am I seeing 14 gauge wire feeding into the box and 12 gauge wire going to the heater?
No - the white wire is just older/original 12 gauge wire from the 80s
Oh man, i have been using two separate devices --24v transformer and a relay... and also a bunch of super ugly expensive mysa baseboard wifi thermostats . Question : Can I use the 24 v output to power both the thermostat and my wyze video doorbell camera ?
Hmmm I don't think so - the video doorbell probably pulls more amps than this relay can supply (1.2A). Best bet is to stick with a transformer for the doorbell.
How has the relay holding up ? Do you know the load ?
Holding up well as far as I can tell! Haven't actually tested the load, no, but the relay is supposed to deliver up to 240v 22amps, and the heater works well
Just so you know the retrofit box you listed in the description is to small.
This guy? smile.amazon.com/Arlington-2-Gang-Electrical-Low-Voltage-1-Pack/dp/B0069KOJ48/ref=sr_1_21
Looks correct to me - or are you saying it's not to code?
How does this work when you are using a 240v heater? There are two hots, and no common. But there are only 3 wires coming from the relay.
I misspoke when I said "common" wire - this video is showing a 240v heater set up. The black relay wire connects to one hot wire from the panel, the blue is wired together with the other hot plus one of the heater wires, and the red connects to the remaining wire going to the heater.
@@sheawilliamson7732 So then, does it only cut power to a single 120v phase, and leave the other one live? I'm looking at this, not for a heater, but for a different 240v appliance, and I'm concerned what happens with one 120v phase still running into said appliance. Thanks for the advice!!
@@larryroyovitz7829 yep I think that's the idea. Again I'm not an electrician, but I'm assuming - at least in the heater's case - that the heater is designed to function such that there's always a hot running directly into it. If you look at the MYSA thermostat wiring (which is a standalone thermostat designed specifically for 240v heaters, no relay required), it works the same way help.getmysa.com/hc/en-us/articles/360042679072-How-do-I-Install-Mysa-with-240V-Installations-
I think that your application will depend entirely on your appliance's native on/off function and how it handles that always hot wire.
@@sheawilliamson7732 Yep, I agree. So either my appliance (might as well tell you, it's a bitcoin miner) will either shut off with one hot leg off, or it'll damage it. lol. I suppose...I could probably get away with two relays, one for each phase, run off the same thermostat.
@@larryroyovitz7829 yeah I dunno… technically if the appliance is “off” then it shouldn’t be pulling any amps, which is the real consideration. Appliances are always connected to voltage when they’re plugged in, right? it’s just whether they’re on or off that determines if they’re gonna draw power.
What if I just ran small 18g wire from the 240v wires into the thermostat?
Straight from your breaker, without the relay? Not sure if that's a serious question or not, but I'll answer anyway: you'd start a fire inside your wall. That's too much power running through small gauge wire, so the wire would burn up. You also probably fry your thermostat in the process. Certain thermostats (e.g. Mysa) are designed to work directly with 240v power/larger wiring without the need for 18g thermostat wire.
Thanks for answering 🙏. Here’s the thing, I only see 2 wires in my junction box. If I use the relay to transform power to my google nest, can I leave the blue wires out of the equation or can I joint the blue wire into one of 1 of the 2 wires coming from my panel.
@@MrJypsye 2 wires total (1 wire nut) once everything is disconnected? or two sets of wires with 2 wire nuts total? what are the wire colors? are you sure you don't have copper (ground) wires jammed into the back of the box? not that they matter as much, but it would be best to make sure your heater is grounded - and it might already be. do you know if your circuit is 240v? If both wires test positive for voltage, then it probably is. if only one is hot (probably the black one), then it's a 120v circuit, and needs the 120v relay instead of the 240v one shown in the vid. that version of the relay should come with instructions that will probably be slightly different. the blue relay wire provides power to the relay, so yes it's required. if your circuit is 240v, and both circuit wires have power, then I don't think it matters which wires coming from the breaker panel are connected to the wires to the relay and heater, since they both provide the same amount of power. the big thing that matters is that: A) the blue relay wire is connected to one of the breaker wires and one of the heater wires, B) the other breaker wire is connected to the black relay wire, and C) the black heater wire is connected to the red relay wire.
@@sheawilliamson7732 appreciate you going above and beyond to explain this to me
@@sheawilliamson7732 here’s the thing. All I’m trying to do is install the google nest smart thermostat (not the 3rd gen) (I have the the cheaper one). I don’t have a stand alone heater. Now here’s a new finding that has me very confused…: I put my voltage meter on the wires to read the current and it read 2.1 volts. I only have 2 wires coming out the junction from the panel and it looks like 14 or 12 gauge wire. Very very confused bcuz they looked like typical 240v copper wires. Before buying the relay I even went and bought a c wire adapter bcuz the thermostat kept displaying (no power error) I’ve never heard of anyone’s thermostat wires getting 2.1 volts… any ideas? I have a natural gas system