Do you happen to know the twist for the rifle,? I think possibly the long m copper was the bad boy as compared to the others, just studying twists and bullet types. I am really really glad you got the Mossberg straighten out.
I'd love to see gun shops put together ammo sampler packs - 5 rounds each from 4 different brands/versions of bullets for gun testing. You could buy a pack or two and nail down which ammo your gun prefers...great gun show idea for anyone paying attention.
Gun shops will never do it, but companies like Hornady should offer 20 round sample packs for cartridges with multiple offerings: Eldx, SST, Interlock, and CX.
That has always been something I thought about doing. But, when you got a pile of bing bangs, ammo never goes to waste. I just keep them on hand for other projects. One tip: write it down in a logbook which guns like what, if you're like me you will forget. And some folks even write it down on a piece of paper and put it under the butt plate.
That Norma ammo is the real deal. My savage 308 absolutely loves the 150 grain Norma whitetail ammo. I got same hole groups with it. I appreciate the time, money,, and effort you put into this!
@@CanukWbyFanI bought a Mark 2 Minimalist a few weeks ago and am really impressed with it. So far I've only shot Winchester Power Point through it but it shoots basically one hole at 50 yards with about as many rounds as you want to shoot. I've gotten a couple good 100 yard groups as well.
I've got a savage axis 2 precision with the heavy barrel and I can get .292 groups at 100 yards with 155 gr match all day. .650 groups with 168 gr match.
Adam, anytime you are going to shoot .30 caliber boolatts and the rifle has a 1 in 10 twist try to get the 165 gr boolatts. 150s are a bit light for 1 in 10 and 180s are a bit heavy for 1 in 10 twist. As a rule of thumb right across the board stay with 165 gr when shooting.30 caliber boolatts and the group's will probably tighten up. Hopefully the powder charges are the same and the seating depths are the same. Any variation in these things and your groups will be open
I have the Mossberg MVP Predator. (Almost the same as the patriot) Mine suffered this problem, and I went thru all kinds of boxes, and weights trying to find a bullet it liked. I ended up having a gunsmith bed the stock, AND, do a 14 degree crown cut on the end. (everything else measured good) It went from 3"-5" groups, down to .71-.95 groups, with all kinds of different match ammo. (Best so far was .71" 3 rnd group, Sierra Match King 175 grain) I'm hella happy with it now. I wasn't expecting a precision rifle, but, consistant sub 1 MOA is good enough for just a plinkin'/light hunting rifle. I hope you try these, and it helps you too!
Those next groups should be overlaid and compared to the first targets (or shot on the same target) to see where the next 3-shot group lands in respect to the first. I recently watched a video showing individual impacts of a 20-round group. The overall group size was about 2.5" but each of the first three, three shot groups were less than half that (this was a worn out heavy barreled rifle and the shots were random, not "walking" in a particular direction as the barrel heated up). The second and fifth shots were about 2" apart, but as long as you just looked at individual 3-shot groups, you would not have seen that. Some hunters have gone so far as to take a single target and do one to three cold-bore shots per day for a week or two. Although it took a lot of time, they figured it was the best way to see how consistent the rifle was for that important first shot.
@@eltomas3634 He sent that rifle off to Ultimate Reloader who couldn't get it to group either. It was a barrel issue. He put the action into a fancy chassis stock which worked great with a new barrel but still performed badly with the old one. A lot of things can happen during barrel making to cause problems. Sometimes there is a flaw in the steel, other times it is a machining issue. This rifle has a button-rifled barrel. It is not terribly uncommon for a button to skip and produce a bad spot that will affect accuracy. These can be found, but the extra equipment and testing adds cost so it is not done on an inexpensive rifle.
@jfess1911 I still think it would have shot well with Winchester Power Point 150 gr or 180 gr. I've had several Mossberg rifles Mavericks, ATRs, Patriots and they shoot fine with the right ammo. They shoot terrible without the right ammo. Button rifling is fine, of course one could be bad, but its a very reliable process. I hope this whole Patriot good/bad issue continues and the other channels or someone figures out why they almost require the Winchester ammo. It has to be a variable in the ammo specs. I hope they try it again because of WTW's results.
Some comments on the same track that I have. My Patriot shoots cold bore flyers, but after 3 rounds it's sub MOA. Let it cool down and back to flyers. The Mosseberg rep told me to "shoot it dirty", which I tried. Same results. I hand load and have adjusted all the parts, pieces, projectiles, powders, etc. All preform the same. Flyers, then group. Tough to hunt with a gun when you have no idea where the first round it going to land. It's going to be a trade-in some day soon.
Well done WHO-TEE! Finally something the rifle likes! Is very interesting that a .308 likes 150gr. Not every day .308 is happy with 150gr....we all know that every other .308 settles on 165gr-169gr. And if you are really lucky, 180gr as well (JP SAUER S100, CZ 550LUX, STEYR) giving you 0.5" groups. On the copper tips flying all over, Jim and Ron both encountered it: when swapping between lead-core & monolithic bullets, you gotta scrub that barrel. This process is not even caliber specific! Happened in ALL of 'em....from .243, 6.5CM, .308, 7RM, 300WM!!!! ALL my rigs refused to group when I swapped to monolithic...until I scrubbed the barrel. Then again, be grateful that rifle likes the cheap stuff. Very lucky!!!!! I had to settle on relatively expensive 180gr SAKO SUPER HAMMERHEAD 180gr...the FEDERAL FUSION is much cheaper!
For any gun to be ammo-picky is one thing, but guess which among these loads have been around the longest. Don't discount the affordable stuff because fancy bullets are 'better', esp if they don't group as well as what's on the shelf and suits the wallet. Props to WTW for reminding us to keep trying other stuff. I actually thought he'd come up with something like partial bedding, stock screw torque, or something mechanical. Not. 🙂
I started shooting SuperX years ago when reloading components were unavailable. What a surprise!!! I shoot it in my .270, .308 and 30-06. 130gr, 150gr and 165gr respectively. I find them on sale periodically around $23/box and I try to stock up. Also - if you do have an "inventory" of ammo, pay attention to the lot numbers stamped on the inside of the box - i have seen some variations when changing lots.
I've been reloading for over 50yrs there's always that one firearm that is the red headed step child , my worst was a 204 in a Howa 1500 I have more test loads recorded in my log book than any 3 firearms put together, I finally developed a load and bullet combo it really likes but I was real close to trading it for something else.
Thanks Adam! I watch and enjoy all your stuff, but I was particularly interested in this series. We did a series on our channel a couple of years ago on an old 1990s era Winchester Model 70 in .243 that we rescued out of a scrap pile. Long story short: after much time, effort and hundreds spent on different factory and hands loads the best groups we ever achieved from that rifle were with cheap old Winchester Super X Power Point 150gr. which ironically is probably one of the first commercial offerings ever made for the .243. Thanks again for all you do👍
Glad you got it worked out. I was at the range with my son last weekend with a new Sig Cross 6.5CM and we were doing barrel break-in. We used that Hornady Whitetail, too, literally the cheapest ammo we could find. 4 shots clean, 4 shots clean, shots 9-14 - a 5-shot group - we had 4 in the same hole with one "flyer" a quarter inch off - I likely pulled it, for a .586" group. I had mentioned previously that we had two Patriots, and mine was a real dog and sold it, my son's does well - same model as yours - the higher end one. With load work-ups the best group I got was .99. I paid $289 for mine and it wasn't worth $500-700 in ammo to figure out - especially in a state that requires lead free.
Glad you were able to find an ammo it likes! Hope it groups consistently! That Mossberg is a sharp looking rifle and it's sad if it's a lemon. Glad you were able to reach out to the Backfire channel and Gavin and got some advice from them! Always good to follow up!
👍 Good job!!! Just an FYI, though - it is a well established quirk that all copper bullets won't group well from a barrel that has had standard copper guilding bullets through it. In order to determine what all copper bullets are capable of, from any particular barrel, you have to shoot that group from a thoroughly cleaned barrel. Thanks for checking things out so well!
I bought my son one of those about 5 years ago and it’s a 6.5 creed and shoots 1/2” inch with factory match Hornaday ammo. It has the plastic stock and no moods to it🙌
I know there are a lot of "fancy" bullets about, but I have always found Hornady projectiles to be very accurate compared to most others. Sierras are good too. The 'pickiness' of your rifle might be something in the bedding, but it does like the factory stuff from Hornady and Winchester. So pricey ammo is not always the best. Factory ammo is very very expensive here in NZ so most of us always load our own. My experience has been that best results come from loads with good bullets and velocities a bit below max. I think pushing the speed to the limit causes bullet damage in the barrel and opens the groups a bit. Twists a lot tighter than a bullet needs can give odd results too. An "over stabilised" bullet (and the spin speed is dependent on MV) will wobble a bit for the first 100 yards or so and then settle down like a spinning top, so you get smaller groups at 200 yards than at 100, which puzzles some folk. I think this is often evident in large groups from .223s with 50gr bullets than with 60+ ones in the usual 1 in 7" twist AR barrels. The spin rate of a bullet will not significantly decrease in flight, even though the velocity does, so a bullet can go from under to over stabilisation on one trajectory downrange. Some ogive shapes seem to be harder to get stable that others of the same weight, and my conjecture about that is that different ogive curves put the centre of mass of the bullet in different places. Long pointy bullets are harder to stabilise that shorter less pointy ones for that reason IMHO. I know a bit about aerodynamics and how centre of mass affects flight stability, and my theories seem to be borne out by the real world. Ballistics is fascinating, be it a round ball shooting flintlock with a 1 : 60" twist or an AR with 1 : 7.... But even with round balls, any flinter fan will tell you that all other things being equal a 60" twist is a bit more accurate than the usually supplied 48". The 48" will stabilise conical bullets, true, but it over stabilises round balls, the usual fodder of flinters, which is why such twists give better accuracy at lower MVs.... the balls are not over-spun. Long jacketed rifle bullets have to be spun a lot faster, but the rules are the same. I once had a 7 x 57mm rifle that really liked 139gr Hornadys; I never did measure the twist rate in that barrel, but I suspect it was a fair bi slower than the usual military barrels made for 175 bullets because the faster I drove it, the small the groups became. I was obviously long throated because even driven to almost 3000fps (which is where I stopped pushing things) the pressures were fine and it shot sub MoA. But all general rules aside, rifles are all individuals... more uniform than 60 years ago sure (due to our modern machine tools) but still the tolerances stack up now and again. Sorry that was so long..... 😀
On the one Winchester load with the copper bullet, try cleaning the bore to bare steel. Any jacket fouling can throw off copper bullets. Been proven by many UA-camrs. Once clean shoot 3 to 5 shots tomseason the bore to the copper.
I have shot many many many Barnes copper bullets for 264 win mag 338 win mag , 6.5 x55 swede 308 win. Never had any problems , but you must remove the copper after 20 rounds, Barnes says so in their reload manual. AND you have to seat them 50 thousands back from the lands . Do this and you will have good results. I am a firearms instructor and I teach this in my classes.
@@jasonshink6589well for me in a savage 110 the Barnes is the only thing that gives .3 group. Plus I like shoulder shots on elk n such so 338 barnes would be way better than the 2 moa eldx that blows up to bits on a shoulder bone
Great video. Thanks for sticking it out and finding on the shelf ammo that gun would hold a group with. Look forward to your next video to see if it works again. Good luck.
I have been told by really good shooters that if you change to all copper, you need to do a deep cleaning to get all the lead out of the barrel. Then the groups will tighten up.
Winchester Super X is my go to ammo for my 7mm rem mag and my 270. They always seem to group well and are devastating on whitetails. Thanks for the great video.
That's the first reasonable scope I've seen on a video like this. Now I need to choose between the Arkin and the Vortex Diamondback tactical for my 7mm Mag
Leave it to you, Adam! Some of the other channels have spent money to actually rebuild the rig to try to get it to group… And you pull off a .35! Extraordinary well done
So happy that you found 4 loads that actually shot well for you out of the best “looking” $400 rifle out there. Hopefully 🤞🏻 it will be repeatable. I wish I could have found American 🇺🇸 Whitetail in 300 WSM on the shelf at Cabela’s when I picked up my rifle. That way I didn’t have to use at the time (2019) a $43 box of Hornady Outfitter with 180 grain GMX to foul up my barrel and sight it in. Those 165 grain Interlocks are decently accurate and somewhat affordable.
I would add that not only does he need to see if he can duplicate those good groups from this video, but after that, I would like to see him retest all the ammos he shot through the rifle in this test and the first couple of tests he mentioned to see if the barrel is "breaking in" and will now shoot some or all of those previously tested ammos better.
Glad you found some stuff that works! My howa .308 and my savage hog hunter both really like the Norma whitetails.. I still have yet to find a hand load that works better than that bullet.. nice work!
Had a similar experience with a Mossberg Patriot LR Tac version in the MDT stock. Tried several types of ammo from 147g FMJ up to Federal 180g SP. Most were 2-3" groups but with the Winchester Deer Season XP 150gr brought it consistently under an inch.
Outstanding, Adam! I always like to start with the cheap stuff and work my way up.. slightly more cost effective, but when dealing with trial and error, it can get expensive! Good on you for being rock steady and persevering.
I always like the looks of the Patriot but when doing research on it Jim was on top with views on it and I changed my mind glad you found something it likes. Thank you for your videos.
Great video! My patriot shoots decently, but I'm going to try some of the Hornady and Winchester though. Looking forward to the follow up video. Thanks,
Nuts you must got 10 or more boxes of 308..good part you got it to group.. little nuts, you had to work and spend so much on ammo..thank you Adam.. hopefully you can repeat.. hopefully that last copper bullet didn’t foul your rig..
Glad you got that dialed in. I dont buy loaded ammo but did do a comparion with 150gr Norma. They group fair but are 150 to 200 fps lower than the box says. I am using a Win XPR in 308 and playing with a 30-06 just to see what they will do when i get done tuning.
Glad you found couple brands to make the Mossberg worthwhile. I will not be surprised if you can duplicate these results, as I find both Hornaday 150 WT and Win PP 150 to be fantastic loads for my Savage .308. Kudo's to your tenacity WTW. Keep up the good work
I watched backfire talk about shooting copper out of a lead fouled barrel he had issues with that. Maybe clean the barrel and use just copper. Thanks for going the extra mile in testing.
I had similar results with my PSA PA10 Gen III. I got it cheap because it was "horribly inaccurate." First rounds I tried were cor-lokt 150gr and I got two 3/4" groups back to back at 100yrds. Moved to more expensive 150gr power point, 4 inch group. Same with pretty much every other ammo I shot. I'll have to try that hornady whitetail as well!!
The PA10's seem to like 168 grain the best from what I recall. It can be pickier about the 150 grain. At least that was what I found in the various videos I could find. Haven't shot mine enough to speak from personal experience yet, but I stocked up on 168 gr.
I had a similar issue one time to what your describing so I feel your pain. However the problem for me on a Savage 110 proved to be bad optic mounts. No more Walmart toyed with mounts for me and I learned a lot off that rifle. Second time years later that it wouldn't group was a barrel that I'm having replaced since I verified the scope works and mounts are good it has to a barrel and or barrel stock combo "pressed wood stock" finally rearing a changed and ugly fit after nearly over 20 years shooting. All that to say I don't get rid of rifle just because it ain't perfect. They are still mass produced products and you know stuff happens. Though obviously Mossberg much as I like them has quality control issues somewhere.
Adam, I own a few Mossbergs, 308, 30-06, 270, they all like the Winchester ammo, I'm gonna try the Hornady WT see if I get the same results. Thanks for sticking with the 308 I knew it was a good rifle. Gbwy.
Re-crowning the barrel has always improved accuracy from my experience.. Brownells sells a crowning tool with a pilot specific to caliber. You can use that tool to recrown a barrel without a lathe. It does a pretty good job and cost less than $400.
For $500 you can get a custom high quality barrel. So you can spend $$ on ammo or spend it on the barrel to mitigate spending it on random amounts of ammo. Take your pick
My son-in-law had a Rem 700 AAC that was just like that Mossberg. The only factory loading it come close to grouping decent was the Win 150 gr SuperX. I traded him a better rifle and then i rebarreled the 700 in 6.5CM with a Satern barrel, now consistently sub MOA.
My brother and I have taken several " lemons" and with meticulous and judicious handloads were able to bring them all to sub moa. Not easy but can be done.We even brought back several that were in a " fireproof safe" but not waterproof. Those were bears to do
WOOHOO! I hate to say I told you so....but Itoldyouso! Mossberg Mavericks, Patriots, and ATRs like Winchester Power Point 150s and 180s. I don't know why exactly, has to be something with bullet land engagement, I think, IDK for sure. The first Mossberg rifle I got in .308 , I didn't want to do what you did and that was spend a bunch of money on ammo to find the best, so I just researched what others did. The Win PPs was the best I had. Glad you saved the old thing!
I’ve seen channels trash the T/C Compass, I bought one in 6.5 Creedmoor. I cleaned it, fired once, cleaned, fired, and so on until I had cleaned and fired 5 times. I bought the Hornady American bullets in 129gr mainly for the brass, (I reload) but it shot a ragged 3 shot hole! So I didn’t have to reload for it. I guess I got lucky. 🤷🏻♂️ I laugh every time I see someone trash them. And on top of it, it’s a Gen1. Anyway, glad you got it worked out brother. If you read this, do you happen to know what the barrel twist rate is on the Mossberg? You may have said in original video but I don’t remember. Thanks again.
@ yes sir, but I have seen some “guntubers” really trash them. I guess they forgot how everyone out there can’t afford a high dollar rifle. I for one am in the camp of “if it’s accurate and reliable, I will shoot it”!
Good to see you’ve found something it likes. The American Whitetail is one of the most consistently accurate rounds I’ve experienced. But pencils through deer from my 270 and 308. It has good terminal performance from my 300WM. I guess the extra velocity/energy makes it open up well.
Awesome video, the one big thing I have seen and heard about Mossberg rifles is the stock is weak. Seen videos on them breaking internally. 308 is not a low pressure round, would not be shocked if it happens. Loved my Ruger 308, and so so sad I had to let it go.
Glad you got it working. I was afraid it was that truck muffler on the end since my non threaded one works fine with the cheapest 150g I can find online.
Do a complete stripping of all the folding metal in the bore and then try the solid copper bullets like the Winchester. Your buddy Ron Spomer.has quite a bit of info on the fact that copper bullets won't shoot with gilding metal fouling in the bore.
So I’m sure someone has already told you but you cannot just switch to monolithic copper bullets and get groups. You have to clean it, shoot at least 10 rounds of the new, then shoot for groups. Ron Sooner did a video on it and it makes sense because I tried some TTSX and it shot 4”. Cleaned and shot 10 fouling and it shot .75” after that.
I am happy for you having that success. Allways remember you are the'' go to '' of the workers, they are the reason for your success. Remember I am watching you.
I have not used the Hornady whitetail in my 308,but my Ruger American's in 243 & 270 like them. I have taken several deer with them and have good results.
I would like you to see you shoot this gun again with that ammo you got good groups with. I have a Mossberg Patriot .308 with a walnut stock. Mine was also a buster. I spent a lot of money in ammo for it as well, but I did in deed find an ammo that I could get 1MOA groups out of it with. (Winchester .150 grain Extreme point) With that being said. I am glad I stuck with it, because I really enjoy the gun. It feels excellent. Light weight. Great trigger.
You need to talk to your buddy Ron S. About cleaning the copper jacket material out of the barrel before shooting copper solids. It makes a big difference.
@@handcannon1388 - by "animals," I'm assuming you mean feral hogs. 😉 The limit on ungulates, at least in North America, is at most 1 per day, and many, like elk and moose, only 1 per season (at least for non-residents). And the guy who can afford a guided elk/moose hunt probably isn't using a Patriot anyway. So there's that.
@@smokedbrisket3033 some states for deer is 2-4 depending on what zone your in but i agree if somebodys doing guided hunts or hunts for multiple animals their not using a patriot or even a savage axis for that matter they have the custom built rifles with the scopes that basically tell them where to aim and do all the work for the shooter minus pulling his finger on the trigger to fire the round off and even in a 2-4 deer state or zone for most hunters your not going to get any fast second or 3rd or 4th chances off cause the most common hunters don't fire with a silencer
I watched an episode of Backfire where they tested budget rifles. Out of the many rifles they tested only one rifle wouldn’t group worth a crap and that was the Mossberg Patriot chambered in 308 He later sent the rifle back to Mossberg and the told him they fixed it. The rifle still would not group at a hundred yards
I started out trying the Hornady American Whitetail ammo because it was inexpensive. I have found it to be sub moa in several calibers. I have recently found a few Winchester ammos to be very accurate and consistent as well.
Thanks WTW. I couldn't catch the premiere as between Sparta and Cookeville I have no signal. Went to Cookeville and watched. Awesome on finding that ammo to match the rifle. I'm looking forward to part 4 and the repeat
I am glad you shoot paper trying for the smallest group possible. On so many channels they shoot 8" gong at 100 yards and brag about "minute of deer" accuracy. That's fine if your 8" circle is perfectly centered on the Vitals but if your off by too inches it could be a lost deer. With 0.3 inch groups that's not a problem. Aim small miss small
Can't wait for the next video wringing the accuracy out of the Mossy Patriot. I have the Mossy 4x4 w/ laminate wood and marinecote finish. Gorgeous gun but haven't shot it enough to know how it groups
I bought my son a patriot a few years ago in .270 win and ours has been very accurate. 2 inch groups at 200 yds all day long shooting hornady whitetail 130 gr. It’s his favorite deer rifle even tho he has plenty of higher end rifles to choose from!!
My mossberg 6.5 creedmore likes the Hornady white tail a little better than the Winchester and you can get it on midway USA for $19 dollars a box and free shipping sometimes. Only problem is a lite barrel to be a good bench gun. But live the light weight for hunting
I agree loading ur own makes a diff. My patriot 25-06 shoots consistant 1/2 groups. When i bought it i bought 2 boxes of factory stuff jst to get brass. 117 grain sierra game kings , 50 gr imr 4064. Can shoot groups that looks like a clover.
Since I'm a lever action kind of guy the only .308 I own is a Savage 99E that likes JSP bullets in the 150grn range. IF I owned a Mossberg Patriot in .308, I would have to turn it into a hand load test bed before I took it hunting. I would also have to go without a "can" as they are illegal in my state and have a world class gunsmith in our area check the muzzle crown and correct any defect it might have from the factory that came as result of being "can" ready.
I won a Mossberg Patriot 6.5 Creedmoor in a raffle. It seemed to like Core Lokt 140gr better than Hornady American Whitetail or some Nosler ammo. In fact, it grouped quite well with the Core Lokt. Go figure. No complaints with my Mossberg, so far.
I have a 450 BM and a 25-06 in the patriot I have no complaints of mine, accuracy is unbelievable have taken game over 200 with the 450 and over 350 with the 25-06
You gave me a lot of hope for mine. No reconsidering not getting ride of mine. I was getting what you got the first time. Haven't bothered with it since.
None of my 308 bolt guns like anything under 168 grain. In dacr 168 grain is what they all prefer. Its amazing to see how awsome that mossberg groups with 150 grain rounds.
Try the hornady American Gunner 155gr!! Got the same gun use hornady American whitetail from the get go 150gr and was getting half inch group always use hornady for everything but that's just me..then used the American Gunner 155-GRAIN and they shoot amazing through it as well!
My Winchester Black Shadow 7mm WSM wouldn’t group anything well. I almost sold it but decided to shoot Winchester Power Max 150 grain as a last ditch effort. After all, it was my first rifle. I covered all three shots with a dime! I kept the gun and bought several boxes of the Power Max. Tack driver with that ammo!
I have a model 99 ruger in .308 that absolutely love the american whitetail ammo. This gun is super picky, i believe because the harmonics of the very light barrel to very heavy action ratio. I had almost given up on better than 2 inch groups and my wife got me some of those hornadys for christmas. I think mostly because my son wanted to keep the gun in the family lol. They did the trick and shoot as good as i will ever shoot now.
With all copper bullets you need to start with a barrel cleaned to bare metal or it will not group. Something to do with the two different types of copper. I did the same thing shot all copper right after copper jacketed bullets out fo a Tiika, it was horrible. Then cleaned the barrel and it shot .5” 5 shot group with all copper bullets.
My 6.5 creedmoor Mossberg Patriot has been a very accurate and reliable rifle. Ive put more than 300+ rounds through it. But that being said I have been shooting hornady whitetails since I bought it and nothing else. I’ve never understood why everyone had bad luck with those rifles. It’s been one of the best rifles I own. Maybe this video gave me the answer as of why everyone did have bad luck with those rifles.
Mossberg has walnut stocks for the Patriot so does Boyds have laminate stocks for the Patriot, changing from the plastic stock could make quite a bit of difference in accuracy.
Adam, have you ever tried Meopta optics? Made in Czech Republic, really good glass that doesn't break the bank. Optika 5 is their "budget" line, I'd say they're about as clear as a VX-3 or maybe even VX-5. That's what I have mounted on the 9.3x62 I took to Africa, worked like a champ. The only thing I can't say anything about is how well they hold up. I haven't had mine very long, but I've got a buddy down in Oz who has one on his 35W, he rolls his own, and rolls 'em hot. He's been using Meopta for a few years, no complaints. My only complaint about them is the length of tube between the bells - right at 6". For LA rifles, you really need to use a Picatinny so you have some wiggle room on scope placement/eye relief.
I've seen that sometimes copper bullets can be finicky. Have to start with a clean barrel then shoot a few just to lay down some metal in the barrel before testing for groups. Sometimes even between other copper bullets. I know you know Ron Spomer, I'm sure you've seen that in his tests.
Also I am interested in seeing if you can get those good group results several more times. I love your videos with budget stuff since that's all I can afford! Thanks!
😂 I been shooting and loading for the 308 win for around 45 years now🇨🇦 ...I think I might be stubborn 😂 but you sir are tough competition😂....can't wait to watch your next time with it at the bench ...thanks man
I have the Mossberg xtr in 308. It shoots a quarter size pattern at 100 using Hornady whitetail. Some like the heavy grain and some like the lighter grain.
Your video brings to mind how much money has been wasted on new scopes and rings when the problem was the ammo. And just because your other rifles like a certain brand of ammo, that doesn't mean your new one will be the same. I learned that they hard way when I picked up a new rifle and three boxes of the same ammo that had always shot great in my other rifles. Thankfully, I just happened to stumble upon another load it shot extremely well. I can also remember cases where I've overheard people at the range questioning the new scope they just put on their new rifle with absolutely no mention that the ammo might be to blame. Thankfully, we have online sources where we can ask others who own the same rifle what they've found shoots best. And while that approach isn't a guarantee, it's better that shooting in the dark so to speak, pun intended. Something else I might add is that it seems that while some rifles shoot multiple loads well, the picky rifles shoot the one or two loads they like extremely well. It's as the rifle and the load were made for one another. But then, isn't that exactly what reloading is all about? (Nope, not a reloader.)
My sons left handed Ruger MK II?.270 stainless with green laminated stock just loves the Winchester 150gr Power Point ammo. Shoots 1/2" groups all day long with the PP. Every thing you read about 270's is that the 130 grain bullet is what made the 270 what it is however my sons cannot fire a two inch group no matter if it was factory 130gr or handloads. I switched and went for the walmart special as you say with the 150gr and never looked back. I bought a half dozen boxes of the 150's and still have most of it as he doesn't hunt anymore and I'm not a lefty. You just never know. After my experience with this gun when I buy a new gun I always buy the cheapest rounds I can find to start off seasoning the barrel and grouping and if the cheap stuff groups well I don't spend more on more expensive ammo. Power Points, Core-lokts, Hornady whitetail and even Privi Partisan PPU is the stuff I buy first. Sometimes guns like a specific weight of bullet. The first centerfire rifle I ever bought was a Rem 700 Mountain Rifle in 30-06 and it just loves 165gr rounds. My dad has taken at least three elk (one being a very large 6x6) a 300+ pound black bear with the 165gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claw and many, many deer with the 165gr cheapies. He saves the bear claws for elk as they are spendy and since they group the same as the cheap rounds he uses the cheap ones on deer.
6 years ago I purchased a Mossberg MVP Predator 7.62x51/308 with a heavy short barrel. I put a Vortex Crossfire II 3-9x50mm illuminated reticle. I use 165/168gr ammo and it is a near 1 hole tack driver. I am 61, diabetic that has the shakes, and I will state that this rifle shoots far better than I can.
I have a Mossberg ATR 100 in .308 from about 15 years ago that still keeps to nearly one hole with 147gr ball, 150 SPs or 168’s. Couple years ago I put a Boyd’s At-One stock and an Arken 4-16 on it.
Try the Norma Evostrike 308 139 grain. I love your videos. You do a great job. After I watched your video on Savage AXIS PRO, I got one in 30-06 and .482 inch groups with the Evostrike 30-06 139 grain. PS keep up the great work 😊
.035 groups with factory ammo? Wow! As a reloader I can say that is very impressive and that exceeds the true definition of bench rest accuracy. I hope your follow up tests continue to yield the same results. Congrats buddy!
I have one in 6.5 CM that shoots ragged one hole groups at my back yard 50 yard range. Double that for 100 yards and it is a bit over 1/2" with Hornady 140 gr match ammo.
My laminated stock stainless cerekote Mossberg patriot in .375 Ruger is super accurate with Speer 235 grain hot core, Hornady 270 grain interlocks and Hornady CX 250 grain monolithic bullets.
nah, what I consider a lemon if it never hits the paper, but also I follow advice of a great rifleman who prefers handloads than factory, Carlos Hathcock and there have been a couple doozys we've inherited that my grandpa snuck home from wwii europe and 1 horrible used rossi lever action in 357. But, if you prefer to use factory only on tests, that's fine too. Because you never know how the factories are checking proper powder weight, etc, but handloads that you have done by folks you trust, those you can count on.
![Gun Snobs HATE this Rifle!!! [With Full Ammo Test]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ucutmv7RJ8k/mqdefault.jpg)
![Gun Snobs HATE this Rifle!!! [With Full Ammo Test]](/img/tr.png)
![MY BEST GROUP EVER! [And With A Magnum]](/img/n.gif)
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Cheapskate , cheap rifle and cheap bulotts makes perfect sense . LoL 😂 👍
Bingo
Do you happen to know the twist for the rifle,? I think possibly the long m copper was the bad boy as compared to the others, just studying twists and bullet types. I am really really glad you got the Mossberg straighten out.
@@billyhancock7851 I believe 1:10
Hey, will you please review a linear compensator. I can't afford a shusher can but have been considering a linear compensator.
I'd love to see gun shops put together ammo sampler packs - 5 rounds each from 4 different brands/versions of bullets for gun testing. You could buy a pack or two and nail down which ammo your gun prefers...great gun show idea for anyone paying attention.
Good idea
Gun shops will never do it, but companies like Hornady should offer 20 round sample packs for cartridges with multiple offerings: Eldx, SST, Interlock, and CX.
We offer it to our customers on reloads. They get 5 different loads at 4 rounds each. Doing factory ammo would be very expense on the dealer.
That has always been something I thought about doing.
But, when you got a pile of bing bangs, ammo never goes to waste. I just keep them on hand for other projects.
One tip: write it down in a logbook which guns like what, if you're like me you will forget. And some folks even write it down on a piece of paper and put it under the butt plate.
Or maybe share the knowledge of what typically groups well for a rifle in a particular caliber.
Agree with Jim. For a test to be valid it has to be repeatable. If you can get similar results with the rest of the box, I would be impressed.
That Norma ammo is the real deal. My savage 308 absolutely loves the 150 grain Norma whitetail ammo. I got same hole groups with it. I appreciate the time, money,, and effort you put into this!
Savages will shoot almost anything well. My Mark 2 in 22lr shoots 1/4 inch groups at 100 yards with Winchester whitebox ammo.
@@jisaacs8 Im a fan of Norma ammo too..
@@CanukWbyFanI bought a Mark 2 Minimalist a few weeks ago and am really impressed with it.
So far I've only shot Winchester Power Point through it but it shoots basically one hole at 50 yards with about as many rounds as you want to shoot. I've gotten a couple good 100 yard groups as well.
I've got a savage axis 2 precision with the heavy barrel and I can get .292 groups at 100 yards with 155 gr match all day. .650 groups with 168 gr match.
Any gun can like any ammo. No ammo works well in every gun. You just have to test.
Adam, anytime you are going to shoot .30 caliber boolatts and the rifle has a 1 in 10 twist try to get the 165 gr boolatts. 150s are a bit light for 1 in 10 and 180s are a bit heavy for 1 in 10 twist. As a rule of thumb right across the board stay with 165 gr when shooting.30 caliber boolatts and the group's will probably tighten up. Hopefully the powder charges are the same and the seating depths are the same. Any variation in these things and your groups will be open
I have the Mossberg MVP Predator. (Almost the same as the patriot)
Mine suffered this problem, and I went thru all kinds of boxes, and weights trying to find a bullet it liked.
I ended up having a gunsmith bed the stock, AND, do a 14 degree crown cut on the end.
(everything else measured good)
It went from 3"-5" groups, down to .71-.95 groups, with all kinds of different match ammo.
(Best so far was .71" 3 rnd group, Sierra Match King 175 grain)
I'm hella happy with it now.
I wasn't expecting a precision rifle, but, consistant sub 1 MOA is good enough for just a plinkin'/light hunting rifle.
I hope you try these, and it helps you too!
I agree with Jim. If you can take it out again and shoot a similar 3 round cold group then I think you have a winner.
Which proves this ONE gun has promise. If you need a cheap gun buy a 783 and work with it.
Those next groups should be overlaid and compared to the first targets (or shot on the same target) to see where the next 3-shot group lands in respect to the first. I recently watched a video showing individual impacts of a 20-round group. The overall group size was about 2.5" but each of the first three, three shot groups were less than half that (this was a worn out heavy barreled rifle and the shots were random, not "walking" in a particular direction as the barrel heated up). The second and fifth shots were about 2" apart, but as long as you just looked at individual 3-shot groups, you would not have seen that.
Some hunters have gone so far as to take a single target and do one to three cold-bore shots per day for a week or two. Although it took a lot of time, they figured it was the best way to see how consistent the rifle was for that important first shot.
Jim needs to get some Win power points and try his patriot, I bet it will do the same.
@@eltomas3634 He sent that rifle off to Ultimate Reloader who couldn't get it to group either. It was a barrel issue. He put the action into a fancy chassis stock which worked great with a new barrel but still performed badly with the old one.
A lot of things can happen during barrel making to cause problems. Sometimes there is a flaw in the steel, other times it is a machining issue. This rifle has a button-rifled barrel. It is not terribly uncommon for a button to skip and produce a bad spot that will affect accuracy. These can be found, but the extra equipment and testing adds cost so it is not done on an inexpensive rifle.
@jfess1911 I still think it would have shot well with Winchester Power Point 150 gr or 180 gr.
I've had several Mossberg rifles Mavericks, ATRs, Patriots and they shoot fine with the right ammo.
They shoot terrible without the right ammo. Button rifling is fine, of course one could be bad, but its a very reliable process. I hope this whole Patriot good/bad issue continues and the other channels or someone figures out why they almost require the Winchester ammo. It has to be a variable in the ammo specs. I hope they try it again because of WTW's results.
Some comments on the same track that I have. My Patriot shoots cold bore flyers, but after 3 rounds it's sub MOA. Let it cool down and back to flyers. The Mosseberg rep told me to "shoot it dirty", which I tried. Same results. I hand load and have adjusted all the parts, pieces, projectiles, powders, etc. All preform the same. Flyers, then group. Tough to hunt with a gun when you have no idea where the first round it going to land. It's going to be a trade-in some day soon.
Well done WHO-TEE! Finally something the rifle likes! Is very interesting that a .308 likes 150gr. Not every day .308 is happy with 150gr....we all know that every other .308 settles on 165gr-169gr. And if you are really lucky, 180gr as well (JP SAUER S100, CZ 550LUX, STEYR) giving you 0.5" groups.
On the copper tips flying all over, Jim and Ron both encountered it: when swapping between lead-core & monolithic bullets, you gotta scrub that barrel. This process is not even caliber specific! Happened in ALL of 'em....from .243, 6.5CM, .308, 7RM, 300WM!!!! ALL my rigs refused to group when I swapped to monolithic...until I scrubbed the barrel.
Then again, be grateful that rifle likes the cheap stuff. Very lucky!!!!! I had to settle on relatively expensive 180gr SAKO SUPER HAMMERHEAD 180gr...the FEDERAL FUSION is much cheaper!
Seems like how they are chambered, the twist rate or barrel harmonics make it like standard cup and core lead core bullets in the 150 grain range.
For any gun to be ammo-picky is one thing, but guess which among these loads have been around the longest. Don't discount the affordable stuff because fancy bullets are 'better', esp if they don't group as well as what's on the shelf and suits the wallet. Props to WTW for reminding us to keep trying other stuff. I actually thought he'd come up with something like partial bedding, stock screw torque, or something mechanical. Not. 🙂
I started shooting SuperX years ago when reloading components were unavailable. What a surprise!!!
I shoot it in my .270, .308 and 30-06. 130gr, 150gr and 165gr respectively.
I find them on sale periodically around $23/box and I try to stock up.
Also - if you do have an "inventory" of ammo, pay attention to the lot numbers stamped on the inside of the box - i have seen some variations when changing lots.
I've been reloading for over 50yrs there's always that one firearm that is the red headed step child , my worst was a 204 in a Howa 1500 I have more test loads recorded in my log book than any 3 firearms put together, I finally developed a load and bullet combo it really likes but I was real close to trading it for something else.
Thanks Adam!
I watch and enjoy all your stuff, but I was particularly interested in this series.
We did a series on our channel a couple of years ago on an old 1990s era Winchester Model 70 in .243 that we rescued out of a scrap pile.
Long story short: after much time, effort and hundreds spent on different factory and hands loads the best groups we ever achieved from that rifle were with cheap old Winchester Super X Power Point 150gr. which ironically is probably one of the first commercial offerings ever made for the .243.
Thanks again for all you do👍
Crazy how that happens sometimes. Appreciate you watching
Glad you got it worked out. I was at the range with my son last weekend with a new Sig Cross 6.5CM and we were doing barrel break-in. We used that Hornady Whitetail, too, literally the cheapest ammo we could find. 4 shots clean, 4 shots clean, shots 9-14 - a 5-shot group - we had 4 in the same hole with one "flyer" a quarter inch off - I likely pulled it, for a .586" group. I had mentioned previously that we had two Patriots, and mine was a real dog and sold it, my son's does well - same model as yours - the higher end one. With load work-ups the best group I got was .99. I paid $289 for mine and it wasn't worth $500-700 in ammo to figure out - especially in a state that requires lead free.
Glad you were able to find an ammo it likes! Hope it groups consistently! That Mossberg is a sharp looking rifle and it's sad if it's a lemon. Glad you were able to reach out to the Backfire channel and Gavin and got some advice from them! Always good to follow up!
👍 Good job!!! Just an FYI, though - it is a well established quirk that all copper bullets won't group well from a barrel that has had standard copper guilding bullets through it. In order to determine what all copper bullets are capable of, from any particular barrel, you have to shoot that group from a thoroughly cleaned barrel.
Thanks for checking things out so well!
I was thinking this after watching Ron Spomer demonstrate this “phenomenon” with different bullet weights and bullet constructions.
I bought my son one of those about 5 years ago and it’s a 6.5 creed and shoots 1/2” inch with factory match Hornaday ammo. It has the plastic stock and no moods to it🙌
I know there are a lot of "fancy" bullets about, but I have always found Hornady projectiles to be very accurate compared to most others. Sierras are good too.
The 'pickiness' of your rifle might be something in the bedding, but it does like the factory stuff from Hornady and Winchester. So pricey ammo is not always the best.
Factory ammo is very very expensive here in NZ so most of us always load our own. My experience has been that best results come from loads with good bullets and velocities a bit below max. I think pushing the speed to the limit causes bullet damage in the barrel and opens the groups a bit. Twists a lot tighter than a bullet needs can give odd results too. An "over stabilised" bullet (and the spin speed is dependent on MV) will wobble a bit for the first 100 yards or so and then settle down like a spinning top, so you get smaller groups at 200 yards than at 100, which puzzles some folk. I think this is often evident in large groups from .223s with 50gr bullets than with 60+ ones in the usual 1 in 7" twist AR barrels. The spin rate of a bullet will not significantly decrease in flight, even though the velocity does, so a bullet can go from under to over stabilisation on one trajectory downrange. Some ogive shapes seem to be harder to get stable that others of the same weight, and my conjecture about that is that different ogive curves put the centre of mass of the bullet in different places. Long pointy bullets are harder to stabilise that shorter less pointy ones for that reason IMHO. I know a bit about aerodynamics and how centre of mass affects flight stability, and my theories seem to be borne out by the real world.
Ballistics is fascinating, be it a round ball shooting flintlock with a 1 : 60" twist or an AR with 1 : 7.... But even with round balls, any flinter fan will tell you that all other things being equal a 60" twist is a bit more accurate than the usually supplied 48". The 48" will stabilise conical bullets, true, but it over stabilises round balls, the usual fodder of flinters, which is why such twists give better accuracy at lower MVs.... the balls are not over-spun. Long jacketed rifle bullets have to be spun a lot faster, but the rules are the same. I once had a 7 x 57mm rifle that really liked 139gr Hornadys; I never did measure the twist rate in that barrel, but I suspect it was a fair bi slower than the usual military barrels made for 175 bullets because the faster I drove it, the small the groups became. I was obviously long throated because even driven to almost 3000fps (which is where I stopped pushing things) the pressures were fine and it shot sub MoA.
But all general rules aside, rifles are all individuals... more uniform than 60 years ago sure (due to our modern machine tools) but still the tolerances stack up now and again.
Sorry that was so long..... 😀
On the one Winchester load with the copper bullet, try cleaning the bore to bare steel. Any jacket fouling can throw off copper bullets. Been proven by many UA-camrs.
Once clean shoot 3 to 5 shots tomseason the bore to the copper.
I have shot many many many Barnes copper bullets for 264 win mag 338 win mag , 6.5 x55 swede 308 win. Never had any problems , but you must remove the copper after 20 rounds, Barnes says so in their reload manual. AND you have to seat them 50 thousands back from the lands . Do this and you will have good results. I am a firearms instructor and I teach this in my classes.
Why TF would you do all that and not just buy the .3 inch group stuff
@@jasonshink6589Because life’s too easy and you want to introduce unnecessary complexity into your life? Just spitballing.
@@jasonshink6589well for me in a savage 110 the Barnes is the only thing that gives .3 group. Plus I like shoulder shots on elk n such so 338 barnes would be way better than the 2 moa eldx that blows up to bits on a shoulder bone
@@theoriginalDAL357 bars....keep spitting lol
Great video. Thanks for sticking it out and finding on the shelf ammo that gun would hold a group with. Look forward to your next video to see if it works again. Good luck.
I have been told by really good shooters that if you change to all copper, you need to do a deep cleaning to get all the lead out of the barrel. Then the groups will tighten up.
I am really, really glad you were able to do this! Congratulations!
🙏🙏🙏
Winchester Super X is my go to ammo for my 7mm rem mag and my 270. They always seem to group well and are devastating on whitetails. Thanks for the great video.
That's the first reasonable scope I've seen on a video like this. Now I need to choose between the Arkin and the Vortex Diamondback tactical for my 7mm Mag
Leave it to you, Adam! Some of the other channels have spent money to actually rebuild the rig to try to get it to group… And you pull off a .35! Extraordinary well done
So happy that you found 4 loads that actually shot well for you out of the best “looking” $400 rifle out there.
Hopefully 🤞🏻 it will be repeatable.
I wish I could have found American 🇺🇸 Whitetail in 300 WSM on the shelf at Cabela’s when I picked up my rifle. That way I didn’t have to use at the time (2019) a $43 box of Hornady Outfitter with 180 grain GMX to foul up my barrel and sight it in. Those 165 grain Interlocks are decently accurate and somewhat affordable.
🇦🇺😎👍We like the underdog stories rising up out of the ashes down in Australia
I would add that not only does he need to see if he can duplicate those good groups from this video, but after that, I would like to see him retest all the ammos he shot through the rifle in this test and the first couple of tests he mentioned to see if the barrel is "breaking in" and will now shoot some or all of those previously tested ammos better.
Glad you found some stuff that works! My howa .308 and my savage hog hunter both really like the Norma whitetails.. I still have yet to find a hand load that works better than that bullet.. nice work!
Had a similar experience with a Mossberg Patriot LR Tac version in the MDT stock. Tried several types of ammo from 147g FMJ up to Federal 180g SP. Most were 2-3" groups but with the Winchester Deer Season XP 150gr brought it consistently under an inch.
Outstanding, Adam! I always like to start with the cheap stuff and work my way up.. slightly more cost effective, but when dealing with trial and error, it can get expensive! Good on you for being rock steady and persevering.
I always like the looks of the Patriot but when doing research on it Jim was on top with views on it and I changed my mind glad you found something it likes. Thank you for your videos.
Thanks for watching
Great video! My patriot shoots decently, but I'm going to try some of the Hornady and Winchester though. Looking forward to the follow up video. Thanks,
Nuts you must got 10 or more boxes of 308..good part you got it to group.. little nuts, you had to work and spend so much on ammo..thank you Adam.. hopefully you can repeat.. hopefully that last copper bullet didn’t foul your rig..
Glad you got that dialed in. I dont buy loaded ammo but did do a comparion with 150gr Norma. They group fair but are 150 to 200 fps lower than the box says. I am using a Win XPR in 308 and playing with a 30-06 just to see what they will do when i get done tuning.
Glad you found couple brands to make the Mossberg worthwhile. I will not be surprised if you can duplicate these results, as I find both Hornaday 150 WT and Win PP 150 to be fantastic loads for my Savage .308. Kudo's to your tenacity WTW. Keep up the good work
I watched backfire talk about shooting copper out of a lead fouled barrel he had issues with that. Maybe clean the barrel and use just copper. Thanks for going the extra mile in testing.
Mike the bullets and find the minute differences between them. The hardness of the jackets could be a factor as well. Seems to have a whippy barrel.
I had similar results with my PSA PA10 Gen III. I got it cheap because it was "horribly inaccurate." First rounds I tried were cor-lokt 150gr and I got two 3/4" groups back to back at 100yrds. Moved to more expensive 150gr power point, 4 inch group. Same with pretty much every other ammo I shot. I'll have to try that hornady whitetail as well!!
The PA10's seem to like 168 grain the best from what I recall. It can be pickier about the 150 grain. At least that was what I found in the various videos I could find. Haven't shot mine enough to speak from personal experience yet, but I stocked up on 168 gr.
I had a similar issue one time to what your describing so I feel your pain. However the problem for me on a Savage 110 proved to be bad optic mounts. No more Walmart toyed with mounts for me and I learned a lot off that rifle. Second time years later that it wouldn't group was a barrel that I'm having replaced since I verified the scope works and mounts are good it has to a barrel and or barrel stock combo "pressed wood stock" finally rearing a changed and ugly fit after nearly over 20 years shooting. All that to say I don't get rid of rifle just because it ain't perfect. They are still mass produced products and you know stuff happens. Though obviously Mossberg much as I like them has quality control issues somewhere.
Adam, I own a few Mossbergs, 308, 30-06, 270, they all like the Winchester ammo, I'm gonna try the Hornady WT see if I get the same results. Thanks for sticking with the 308 I knew it was a good rifle. Gbwy.
Re-crowning the barrel has always improved accuracy from my experience.. Brownells sells a crowning tool with a pilot specific to caliber. You can use that tool to recrown a barrel without a lathe. It does a pretty good job and cost less than $400.
For $500 you can get a custom high quality barrel. So you can spend $$ on ammo or spend it on the barrel to mitigate spending it on random amounts of ammo. Take your pick
My son-in-law had a Rem 700 AAC that was just like that Mossberg. The only factory loading it come close to grouping decent was the Win 150 gr SuperX. I traded him a better rifle and then i rebarreled the 700 in 6.5CM with a Satern barrel, now consistently sub MOA.
My brother and I have taken several " lemons" and with meticulous and judicious handloads were able to bring them all to sub moa. Not easy but can be done.We even brought back several that were in a " fireproof safe" but not waterproof. Those were bears to do
WOOHOO! I hate to say I told you so....but Itoldyouso!
Mossberg Mavericks, Patriots, and ATRs like Winchester Power Point 150s and 180s.
I don't know why exactly, has to be something with bullet land engagement, I think, IDK for sure.
The first Mossberg rifle I got in .308 , I didn't want to do what you did and that was spend a bunch of money on ammo to find the best, so I just researched what others did. The Win PPs was the best I had.
Glad you saved the old thing!
I’ve seen channels trash the
T/C Compass, I bought one in 6.5 Creedmoor. I cleaned it, fired once, cleaned, fired, and so on until I had cleaned and fired 5 times. I bought the Hornady American bullets in 129gr mainly for the brass, (I reload) but it shot a ragged 3 shot hole! So I didn’t have to reload for it. I guess I got lucky. 🤷🏻♂️ I laugh every time I see someone trash them. And on top of it, it’s a Gen1. Anyway, glad you got it worked out brother. If you read this, do you happen to know what the barrel twist rate is on the Mossberg? You may have said in original video but I don’t remember. Thanks again.
Mossberg is 1:10. I've had several TC and never had an issue
@ yes sir, but I have seen some “guntubers” really trash them. I guess they forgot how everyone out there can’t afford a high dollar rifle. I for one am in the camp of “if it’s accurate and reliable, I will shoot it”!
My Remington model 700 270 mountain rifle loves the Hornady American whitetail 130g..that was a really fun video!
I’m glad you stuck with it and found an ammo it likes, even better that it likes the cheap stuff 👍
Thanks for watching
When does that NOT happen? 😉
Good to see you’ve found something it likes. The American Whitetail is one of the most consistently accurate rounds I’ve experienced. But pencils through deer from my 270 and 308. It has good terminal performance from my 300WM. I guess the extra velocity/energy makes it open up well.
Awesome video, the one big thing I have seen and heard about Mossberg rifles is the stock is weak. Seen videos on them breaking internally. 308 is not a low pressure round, would not be shocked if it happens. Loved my Ruger 308, and so so sad I had to let it go.
Glad you got it working. I was afraid it was that truck muffler on the end since my non threaded one works fine with the cheapest 150g I can find online.
Do a complete stripping of all the folding metal in the bore and then try the solid copper bullets like the Winchester. Your buddy Ron Spomer.has quite a bit of info on the fact that copper bullets won't shoot with gilding metal fouling in the bore.
So I’m sure someone has already told you but you cannot just switch to monolithic copper bullets and get groups. You have to clean it, shoot at least 10 rounds of the new, then shoot for groups. Ron Sooner did a video on it and it makes sense because I tried some TTSX and it shot 4”. Cleaned and shot 10 fouling and it shot .75” after that.
I am happy for you having that success. Allways remember you are the'' go to '' of the workers, they are the reason for your success. Remember I am watching you.
@@johnmurdock1391 appreciate you watching
I have not used the Hornady whitetail in my 308,but my Ruger American's in 243 & 270 like them. I have taken several deer with them and have good results.
Thanks for doing this.
From a practicality stand point the Savage Axis runs circles around the patriot in 308 for the same price
I would like you to see you shoot this gun again with that ammo you got good groups with.
I have a Mossberg Patriot .308 with a walnut stock. Mine was also a buster. I spent a lot of money in ammo for it as well, but I did in deed find an ammo that I could get 1MOA groups out of it with. (Winchester .150 grain Extreme point)
With that being said. I am glad I stuck with it, because I really enjoy the gun. It feels excellent. Light weight. Great trigger.
Already sold it
Dang… either way.
Thanks for making these videos. Really enjoy watching them.
You need to talk to your buddy Ron S. About cleaning the copper jacket material out of the barrel before shooting copper solids. It makes a big difference.
I will have to agree with your friend. The same thing was going through my mind. Three shots, ok.... let's see it, do it repeatedly. Before it's done.
Agreed, but i think he was just trying to find a starting point with ammo that would group.
The thing about hunting rifles is they don't need to do it repeatedly. They need to be able to do it cold-bore with a single shot.
@@smokedbrisket3033 Absolutely correct. If you can shoot, the third shot should be two animals later.
@@handcannon1388 - by "animals," I'm assuming you mean feral hogs. 😉 The limit on ungulates, at least in North America, is at most 1 per day, and many, like elk and moose, only 1 per season (at least for non-residents). And the guy who can afford a guided elk/moose hunt probably isn't using a Patriot anyway. So there's that.
@@smokedbrisket3033 some states for deer is 2-4 depending on what zone your in but i agree if somebodys doing guided hunts or hunts for multiple animals their not using a patriot or even a savage axis for that matter they have the custom built rifles with the scopes that basically tell them where to aim and do all the work for the shooter minus pulling his finger on the trigger to fire the round off
and even in a 2-4 deer state or zone for most hunters your not going to get any fast second or 3rd or 4th chances off cause the most common hunters don't fire with a silencer
I watched an episode of Backfire where they tested budget rifles. Out of the many rifles they tested only one rifle wouldn’t group worth a crap and that was the Mossberg Patriot chambered in 308
He later sent the rifle back to Mossberg and the told him they fixed it. The rifle still would not group at a hundred yards
I started out trying the Hornady American Whitetail ammo because it was inexpensive. I have found it to be sub moa in several calibers. I have recently found a few Winchester ammos to be very accurate and consistent as well.
I've Saw the very video your talking about from back fire they couldn't even hardly hit paper with that thing great video keep em coming
Thanks WTW. I couldn't catch the premiere as between Sparta and Cookeville I have no signal. Went to Cookeville and watched. Awesome on finding that ammo to match the rifle. I'm looking forward to part 4 and the repeat
I am glad you shoot paper trying for the smallest group possible. On so many channels they shoot 8" gong at 100 yards and brag about "minute of deer" accuracy. That's fine if your 8" circle is perfectly centered on the Vitals but if your off by too inches it could be a lost deer. With 0.3 inch groups that's not a problem. Aim small miss small
After testing I look forward to your view on whether it was all worth it or not..Taking into account this could happen with any budget rifle..IMO..
Can't wait for the next video wringing the accuracy out of the Mossy Patriot. I have the Mossy 4x4 w/ laminate wood and marinecote finish. Gorgeous gun but haven't shot it enough to know how it groups
I bought my son a patriot a few years ago in .270 win and ours has been very accurate. 2 inch groups at 200 yds all day long shooting hornady whitetail 130 gr. It’s his favorite deer rifle even tho he has plenty of higher end rifles to choose from!!
That's awesome!
My mossberg 6.5 creedmore likes the Hornady white tail a little better than the Winchester and you can get it on midway USA for $19 dollars a box and free shipping sometimes. Only problem is a lite barrel to be a good bench gun. But live the light weight for hunting
It's interesting how different manufacturers in bullets makes such a big difference? It would be cool to measure the barrel temp with these testings.
Great video! It’s interesting to see how you tackled the challenges with this rifle
I agree loading ur own makes a diff. My patriot 25-06 shoots consistant 1/2 groups. When i bought it i bought 2 boxes of factory stuff jst to get brass. 117 grain sierra game kings , 50 gr imr 4064. Can shoot groups that looks like a clover.
Since I'm a lever action kind of guy the only .308 I own is a Savage 99E that likes JSP bullets in the 150grn range. IF I owned a Mossberg Patriot in .308, I would have to turn it into a hand load test bed before I took it hunting. I would also have to go without a "can" as they are illegal in my state and have a world class gunsmith in our area check the muzzle crown and correct any defect it might have from the factory that came as result of being "can" ready.
I won a Mossberg Patriot 6.5 Creedmoor in a raffle. It seemed to like Core Lokt 140gr better than Hornady American Whitetail or some Nosler ammo. In fact, it grouped quite well with the Core Lokt. Go figure. No complaints with my Mossberg, so far.
I have a 450 BM and a 25-06 in the patriot I have no complaints of mine, accuracy is unbelievable have taken game over 200 with the 450 and over 350 with the 25-06
You gave me a lot of hope for mine. No reconsidering not getting ride of mine. I was getting what you got the first time. Haven't bothered with it since.
None of my 308 bolt guns like anything under 168 grain. In dacr 168 grain is what they all prefer. Its amazing to see how awsome that mossberg groups with 150 grain rounds.
Try the hornady American Gunner 155gr!! Got the same gun use hornady American whitetail from the get go 150gr and was getting half inch group always use hornady for everything but that's just me..then used the American Gunner 155-GRAIN and they shoot amazing through it as well!
My Winchester Black Shadow 7mm WSM wouldn’t group anything well. I almost sold it but decided to shoot Winchester Power Max 150 grain as a last ditch effort. After all, it was my first rifle. I covered all three shots with a dime! I kept the gun and bought several boxes of the Power Max. Tack driver with that ammo!
I have a model 99 ruger in .308 that absolutely love the american whitetail ammo. This gun is super picky, i believe because the harmonics of the very light barrel to very heavy action ratio. I had almost given up on better than 2 inch groups and my wife got me some of those hornadys for christmas. I think mostly because my son wanted to keep the gun in the family lol. They did the trick and shoot as good as i will ever shoot now.
With all copper bullets you need to start with a barrel cleaned to bare metal or it will not group. Something to do with the two different types of copper. I did the same thing shot all copper right after copper jacketed bullets out fo a Tiika, it was horrible. Then cleaned the barrel and it shot .5” 5 shot group with all copper bullets.
My 6.5 creedmoor Mossberg Patriot has been a very accurate and reliable rifle. Ive put more than 300+ rounds through it. But that being said I have been shooting hornady whitetails since I bought it and nothing else. I’ve never understood why everyone had bad luck with those rifles. It’s been one of the best rifles I own. Maybe this video gave me the answer as of why everyone did have bad luck with those rifles.
Mossberg has walnut stocks for the Patriot so does Boyds have laminate stocks for the Patriot, changing from the plastic stock could make quite a bit of difference in accuracy.
Adam, have you ever tried Meopta optics? Made in Czech Republic, really good glass that doesn't break the bank. Optika 5 is their "budget" line, I'd say they're about as clear as a VX-3 or maybe even VX-5. That's what I have mounted on the 9.3x62 I took to Africa, worked like a champ. The only thing I can't say anything about is how well they hold up. I haven't had mine very long, but I've got a buddy down in Oz who has one on his 35W, he rolls his own, and rolls 'em hot. He's been using Meopta for a few years, no complaints.
My only complaint about them is the length of tube between the bells - right at 6". For LA rifles, you really need to use a Picatinny so you have some wiggle room on scope placement/eye relief.
Never tried them
I've seen that sometimes copper bullets can be finicky. Have to start with a clean barrel then shoot a few just to lay down some metal in the barrel before testing for groups.
Sometimes even between other copper bullets. I know you know Ron Spomer, I'm sure you've seen that in his tests.
Also I am interested in seeing if you can get those good group results several more times.
I love your videos with budget stuff since that's all I can afford! Thanks!
Thanks for watching
😂 I been shooting and loading for the 308 win for around 45 years now🇨🇦 ...I think I might be stubborn 😂 but you sir are tough competition😂....can't wait to watch your next time with it at the bench ...thanks man
Appreciate you watching
I have the Mossberg xtr in 308. It shoots a quarter size pattern at 100 using Hornady whitetail. Some like the heavy grain and some like the lighter grain.
Your video brings to mind how much money has been wasted on new scopes and rings when the problem was the ammo. And just because your other rifles like a certain brand of ammo, that doesn't mean your new one will be the same. I learned that they hard way when I picked up a new rifle and three boxes of the same ammo that had always shot great in my other rifles. Thankfully, I just happened to stumble upon another load it shot extremely well. I can also remember cases where I've overheard people at the range questioning the new scope they just put on their new rifle with absolutely no mention that the ammo might be to blame. Thankfully, we have online sources where we can ask others who own the same rifle what they've found shoots best. And while that approach isn't a guarantee, it's better that shooting in the dark so to speak, pun intended. Something else I might add is that it seems that while some rifles shoot multiple loads well, the picky rifles shoot the one or two loads they like extremely well. It's as the rifle and the load were made for one another. But then, isn't that exactly what reloading is all about? (Nope, not a reloader.)
Yup. Gotta test atleast a few ammo types
My sons left handed Ruger MK II?.270 stainless with green laminated stock just loves the Winchester 150gr Power Point ammo. Shoots 1/2" groups all day long with the PP. Every thing you read about 270's is that the 130 grain bullet is what made the 270 what it is however my sons cannot fire a two inch group no matter if it was factory 130gr or handloads. I switched and went for the walmart special as you say with the 150gr and never looked back. I bought a half dozen boxes of the 150's and still have most of it as he doesn't hunt anymore and I'm not a lefty. You just never know. After my experience with this gun when I buy a new gun I always buy the cheapest rounds I can find to start off seasoning the barrel and grouping and if the cheap stuff groups well I don't spend more on more expensive ammo. Power Points, Core-lokts, Hornady whitetail and even Privi Partisan PPU is the stuff I buy first. Sometimes guns like a specific weight of bullet. The first centerfire rifle I ever bought was a Rem 700 Mountain Rifle in 30-06 and it just loves 165gr rounds. My dad has taken at least three elk (one being a very large 6x6) a 300+ pound black bear with the 165gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claw and many, many deer with the 165gr cheapies. He saves the bear claws for elk as they are spendy and since they group the same as the cheap rounds he uses the cheap ones on deer.
Mate, have you done more videos about shooting accuracy on Mossberg rifles - I am looking forward to more on Mossberg! Thank you in advance!
I have several videos on the patriot in 7mm prc
Heck yea ,glad u found the ammo it likes 👍 sometimes it pays off to be persistent ,as usual you gave it a more than a fair shake
6 years ago I purchased a Mossberg MVP Predator 7.62x51/308 with a heavy short barrel. I put a Vortex Crossfire II 3-9x50mm illuminated reticle. I use 165/168gr ammo and it is a near 1 hole tack driver. I am 61, diabetic that has the shakes, and I will state that this rifle shoots far better than I can.
I have a Mossberg ATR 100 in .308 from about 15 years ago that still keeps to nearly one hole with 147gr ball, 150 SPs or 168’s. Couple years ago I put a Boyd’s At-One stock and an Arken 4-16 on it.
@@M60E3G Right on
Try the Norma Evostrike 308 139 grain. I love your videos. You do a great job. After I watched your video on Savage AXIS PRO, I got one in 30-06 and .482 inch groups with the Evostrike 30-06 139 grain. PS keep up the great work 😊
.035 groups with factory ammo? Wow! As a reloader I can say that is very impressive and that exceeds the true definition of bench rest accuracy. I hope your follow up tests continue to yield the same results. Congrats buddy!
.35
I went through several different boxes until I got hornady whitetail like your shooting and they shoot great
I have one in 6.5 CM that shoots ragged one hole groups at my back yard 50 yard range. Double that for 100 yards and it is a bit over 1/2" with Hornady 140 gr match ammo.
Patriot seems to have a positive rep in .243 also.
It’s mostly the .308 chamberings that have a bad rap. And in my experience pretty well any 6.5 cm rifle shoots well
My laminated stock stainless cerekote Mossberg patriot in .375 Ruger is super accurate with Speer 235 grain hot core, Hornady 270 grain interlocks and Hornady CX 250 grain monolithic bullets.
You done good mate, well done on finding the needle in the haystack, cheers Yogi ✌️
nah, what I consider a lemon if it never hits the paper, but also I follow advice of a great rifleman who prefers handloads than factory, Carlos Hathcock and there have been a couple doozys we've inherited that my grandpa snuck home from wwii europe and 1 horrible used rossi lever action in 357. But, if you prefer to use factory only on tests, that's fine too. Because you never know how the factories are checking proper powder weight, etc, but handloads that you have done by folks you trust, those you can count on.