What do you guys think? Was Tekken 7 a bad game? Or do people just have short-term memory? Full podcast episode available here: ua-cam.com/video/uhX2pAm0qSo/v-deo.html
I liked T7, it was my first game. I get nostalgic when I hear the music and loved the game for a time. I think before covid it was fun, but got stale with the OP characters and lack of updates during covid. Fortunately, I think they patched the game decent and while its not perfect, its still overall a good game. At least with T8 being so bad, people may give T7 a second chance lol. Sorta like Star Wars prequel movies before all the Disney shit lol
Yes it was a horrible game and people who just want to Turtle..That's what they liked it because it rewarded never actually engaging in battle..Just dance around pretending you like want to attack..Waiting for someone to give in while you control space doing a safe counter hit launcher..As someone who loves offense it was impossible to be aggressive if I fight a turtle style..So I had to become a pus to adapt and win..If Lei Wulong wasn't in the game it would be second worse Tekken behind tekken 4
People 100% have short term memory. Tekken 7 was the game that blew up tekken in everyone's map and people aren't giving it the respect it deserves cause low rank simpletons can enjoy 50/50 gameplay of t8
@@tryingtochangemyways5074 idk man, attack with a good amount of the cast was good. Combos would also do over half health or more until they nerfed it. Rounds could end in under 10 seconds when that was the case
Same, idc what people think about 7 vs 8, but trying to claim those legendary t7 matches were boring is cap. Those games got people interested in the series again after it almost died with tag2. T7 also kept consistent player/viewers through entire time so everyone calling it boring is capping again
A lot of those matches were before Leroy Ana Fauk, literally once people started optimizing the game in season 3 T7 started falling off. Instead of adjusting characters properly they just gave everyone CH launchers at the end of strings.
T7 fell off after season 2, I can still keep watching tag 2 matches because the matches are way more dynamic than whatever pros were doing in T7 because movement was way better Not to say that T7 didnt have hype stuff going for it, it absolutely did but the viewing experience tanked to oblivion at the end.
Yea funny thing is I got tired of the 50/50 style of tekken and move to ggst which is nothing but 50/50s but there are ways to get out of them if you play smart
@@small_pp_nrgy2072 i did the exact same thing tho i still play both games and then get surprised when i get hit while backdashing/neutral guarding in ggst and getting hit while ducking in tekken lmao
@@XAlpt yea I’m loving ggst the soundtrack is amazing and the characters are full of charisma, and my boy pot has amazing voice lines in Japanese, plus I’m having fun with the freedom of making combos and playing my own way, tekken kinda forced me to play by 2 or 3 combos and it got stale to me
I think there's a misconception that T7 backdash was "too strong". It's not really that; many complained that movement was nerfed in T7. The issue was the insanely overtuned CH mechanic, where half of the roster's moves were CH launchers. This made approaching the opponent an anxiety fest, where you had to make sure to never be in range of or walk into CH moves, which led to a lot of cat n' mouse situations, particularly when one of the players had a significant health advantage. I do like about T8 that Ch is nerfed significantly.
i mostly agree with what you said but i disagree with the idea that CH is significantly less scary in T8, there are still a metric ton of CH launchers where you explode for 100 damage, or confirmable strings that are guaranteed on CH that either do a ton of damage or are heat engager or both. i mean if you've ever fought Bryan or Drag or Nina or Law, they all have such low risk high reward options that they wanna do anyway and if you just happen to get CH it's basically round over. as someone who plays Nina i very often launch my opponents by accident and pop heat and the next time my opponent gets off the ground they're guessing for their life.
People are crazy tbh, T7 is the game which was played for 7-8 years which is a lot more than any other Tekken. If people were actually getting bored from T7 they would have left it already like they are leaving T8 now. There were many hype sets in T7 like -Arslan vs Knee at CB -Arslan vs Ulsan at TWT 2023 -Knee vs Anakin at CB -JDCR vs Knee at Rev Major -Atif vs Chikurin at TWT Finals 2022 and many more sets were too good to watch.
If people quit and criticize tekken 7 during the evo japan year of leroy time... valid criticism and understand why they disliked the game, but overall tekken 7 was a good game.
This was an interesting flip on the situation, people on the bird app were complaining about the less than a year old Tekken 8 for months on end, sending Harada and Murray weird shit and calling for their deaths. Tekken 7 was great and people were posting to show the cycle that happens every tekken release and to take the rose tinted glasses off. There is nuance to both sides.
@@codeine_ninjaor like... People who enjoy the game? Sorry to say but the game just wouldn't have a playerbase at all if it was truly terrible Tbh "Tekken with rollback net code" probably just does it for a lot of people It's the main reason I bought t8 and not t7, and I don't regret that You don't have to like the game tho
I was there for the PhiDX vs Knee set at Evo NA 2023. The crowd was hyped AF to see him go toe to toe with Knee. I doubt a single person was thinking that the game was allowing Phi to close the skill gap. I'd be surprised if Phi himself was actually thinking that at the time. This sounds like the kind of thing that's said as further T7 revisionism to prop up T8. The backdash heavy turtling playstyle that Phi excelled at was strong in T7, but it wasn't given to you by the game for free. You had to work hard to achieve that level of defense. Which is why for every arslan, knee, phi, and shadow, you also had aggressive players like lowhigh, ulsan, atif butt, nobi, khan and more.
The problem is… it wasn’t hard enough all the top players weren’t incentivized to spam it, true T7 was a lot better at Lower ranks because people aren’t 100 percent on their kbd but this is top level Tekken and that’s just the barrier to entry. When you got money on the line why do anything else but what’s optimal and that’s what PhiDX brings up. The game became so frame trap heavy that you just spammed get off me tools, reset neuch, and launched. That’s 3 options basically ro sham bo.
@@johnsmith-ol9qjtbh I think that last part more accurately describes T8. They've handed out plus frames like candy (Lee for example didn't really have any before, Drag with lows that leave him significantly plus oH). Combine that with how mashy people are cuz they're afraid to deal with a mixup and you can go out there and frametrap people all day. Neutral doesn't feel very fun in lots of cases due to the ranged options lots of chars have now that weren't there before. While being low risk or outright safe. Defense was rewarded in t7, but there wasn't one style of play even at the highest level. Which is why I mentioned those other players who were aggressive and among the best in their regions at that
@@zafinaAnzu Where are all of these plus frames? A lot of these plus frames you seem to think now exist in Tekken 8, most of them have been legacy for a very long time. The huge plus frame on hit heat engagers aren't even a new idea either. Rage drives that were strong in 7 were giga + frame forced 50/50 central. Defense is still rewarded in Tekken 8. Idk where people get the idea that suddenly things are super different. You can actually move around at higher negative frame values like -7 and actually get something out of it. Literally watch any high level Tekken and you'll see the same shit you've seen in 7 just with heat as a flavoring. Either play the game or don't talk about it
@@DrClownPhD let's see.... Kazuya: cd 1+2 (+5 oB), SS 1+2 (+5 oB) lee: f4:1 (+5 oB), 1+2 (+2 into HMS used to be -4) drag: FC df1,4 is +7 oH and db3+4 (thankfully nerfed to only +3 oH), QCF 4 at +7 oB the most unnecessary move in the game imo law: get's to be +5 oB just because the other guy pressed forward after you block his WS 4 Zafina: d3 is now +7 oH so SWing her mixups is no longer possible Lars: DEN 3 was made +5 oB to avoid any counterplay available at T8 launch and that's just off the top of my head. So yes we've seen them hand out plus frames like candy. Hell their solution to buff Zafina in 1.04 was mostly to give her plus frames where she didn't need them. There were some rage drives that were very plus in T7, but that wasn't the common case. Hell Kazumi's was -12 oB. Lee's was +3 oB.Law's was slow AF and -9 oB. And when they were heavily plus they had counterplay. Bad range, slow startup, terrible on whiff, etc. On top of that a player only had access to the rage damage buff and either (1) rage drive or (2) rage art each round and only if they were below 50 hp. In T8, we have a rage damage buff, enhanced moves during heat, rage art, and multiple options for heat cash out (with either heat dash or heat smash). In T7 if you got CH out of a rage drive, you'd lose your access to rage. In T8, you get CH out of heat smash, you can just try again. The bar doesn't even get consumed. These mechanics are not at all comparable in how much they dominate the game. Let's not even get into how problematic it is to have heat dash in a game with chars that are scary at the wall like Claudio or Bryan. They can just heat dash you to the wall and be +5 in your face by spending a resource they get for free at the start of every round. I don't know where the hostility is coming from at the end of your comment, but I paid my 70 USD for this game just like the next guy. There's nothing wrong with criticizing it respectfully, and pointing out what i see as hypocrisy when people hate on T7 but glaze T8. I'm watching T8 competitive, and i'm happy for the players themselves (like AK getting that big CB win), but the gameplay itself is not at all what I've loved about tekken in the past. And as a fan of the series, there's nothing wrong with sharing my opinion so long as it's done amicably.
Ppl shitting on t7 like we didn't love the game. T7 would've been the last if it wasn't good, it literally gave us t8 which regardless of how u feel about it is the biggest budget the series has ever had for an installment for a reason.
I personally prefer 8. Only had like 180 hours in 7, I'm already at 400 with 8. It just works better for me. I don't think that means one Game being better than the other, but we all have our preferences
@@zafinaAnzu 11.8 mil over a decade (factoring in multiple sales and being multi-platform). Let's not pretend it sold that much in the first year. There was some love for the game sure, but for many they simply made do with the only "new" tekken they had. T8 solves a lot of the things that made t7 a snorefest, Twitter be damned
@@Kabra2012 nobody's saying anything about it being year 1 sales. The point is people hate on t7 unreasonably (presumably you're one of them since you call it a snore fest). The point is it's the highest selling Tekken so far, saved the franchise from cancellation after tag 2 bombed, had tons of hype over they years, and was the entry where we started to see big sponsors like red bull, liquid and c9 in Tekken. Whichever game you like more t7 deserves the nod for those achievements I'd say. Instead the pro t8 crowd just hates on it incessantly in order to prop up t8.
If you watch the entire podcast PhiDX basically says that speed kicks values interactivity over passive play. Tekken 8 is a lot more interactive than T7. To its detriment for some folks.
I like that PhiDX takes a very nuanced and in-depth approach to his analyses on Tekken. As much as I can understand the very valid complaints about T8 being TOO aggressive, at the same time I think it is valuable to have a discussion about the positives that the systems provide compared to previous iterations. And I do think his point about T8 being, in a lot of cases, somewhat polar opposite of T7 definitely makes it even more polarizing. It's very sensationalist because it's a case of two extremes (at least in his example, T7 being more defensive and T8 being more aggressive) and I think some nuance and honestly some helpful discussion is lost when a lot of the conversation becomes very... hyperbolic, let's say. I def get where people come from with how they feel about T8, and I think it comes from a totally valid place. But at the same time I think having constructive conversations about T8 is ultimately more fun and helpful and hopefully would reach the devs so they can improve the game as well. Anyways, I think Tekken 7 was great! But it had things I didn't like as much and T8 has things I do like a bit more. I don't think either game is bad, they're just different, and hopefully with some adjustments and tweaks T8 will find a nice spot where it can be crazy and fun but also not be frustratingly aggressive. EDIT: I also really like the points that everyone in the podcast made about toning down characters that have advantages that they probably shouldn't. Like defensively oriented characters having overly strong offense. I do think that kind of muddies or dilute the identity of the character and ultimately in a fighting game, the diversity and uniqueness of the characters is a major factor. Nina being both a poke and chip master is a great example. She should probably do one or the other but not both. Yoshi should not be as strong offensively because of his access to strong defensive tools like Flash. Ultimately, I just want a nice balance that doesn't strip characters of their unique identity
I disagree that they're two opposites in a sense that t8 is a direct continuation of t7 ideas. Look how t7 is turning into t8 with each season. More wall carry, more canned string mixups, more damage, less Ch launchers more guaranteed mini combos, flipover and other Oki that leads to snowbally offense.
@@egrassa1480 I was more talking about how Phi uses the Extreme ends of the spectrum in his examples. How Tekken 7 at its most Defensive and T8 at its most Aggressive are very different in how they play. Yes T7 basically started laying the framework for stuff that came in T8, but people are STILL making the comparison between T7 and T8 when it comes to how these games play, even in the later seasons. I think that that is worth discussing in and of itself, but people seem to think it's better to just say one is better than the other and leave it at that. I think that's ultimately unhelpful and I'd rather pursue discussion that constructively addresses things, just like Phi said. Hell, even Spag's example of Knee vs JDCR was a great example. There's good things in both games!
There's one point i want to tackle/ disagree with in what you wrote. It's the idea that Tekken 7 and Tekken 8 have a sort of ying and yang relationship when it comes to defense and offense. I thinks that's one of the things Phidx spread in the community as an idea that is paradoxically right and wrong at the same time. Tekken 7 was definitely more defensive. It was moderately favored to that direction but not to the dosage of where only defensive minded players dominated most of the time. There were defensive players like knee, phidx himself, and there were hyper aggressive players like arslan ash, ulsan and atif for example. In the T7 pro scene, some matches was a technical mash fest. Others were like how jdcr's dragonuv vs knee's feng went; with lack of interactions and multiple kbd + ss. The matches were heavily unique depending on the characters used and who played them. As their tendencies and play seeped into their character. This was much bigger as an effect in the previous game before Tekken 8 made all characters lose "most" of their identity in their transition to becoming all rushdown. In Tekken 7 Both type of playstyle tendencies were allowed to compete with roughly equal chances of winning. With Tekken 7 design giving maybe a natural 5-10% advantage to those who were played more defensively. Because of how that game was designed. But it wasn't an overwhelming advantage. Whereas tekken 8 was more aggressively favored but is around 30-40% natural advantage to those who were aggressive based. Defensive players couldnt breath until patch 1.05 and still the issue is at large. So again while tekken 7 is defensve and tekken 8 is aggressive, its not comparable as one game let both styles exist and the other doesn't to a higher degree. Also it has to be said that there are ways of making a game more aggressive that's good vs one that isn't. Making the game aggressive by increasing true casino gameplay isn't a good way. Making it aggressive in the direction again of Tekken 6, by making movement godlike is more like it. Imo at least.
Yeah i dont understand phi reasoning for why t7 is bad when t8 is a bigger offender of all his reasonings for thinking t7 was bad. T8 is designed to bridge the gap between pro player and casual so much so that any mid level player can beat a high level player as long as they inact their offense first because of T8 rewarding aggression. I'd rather lose to "mindless defense" in T7 than lose to brainless offense in T8
People got giga-mad angry at T7 cause of akuma, paul damage, fakh guardbreaks, fakh and leeroy mixups and hwoarang, kuni aggression the most, and now that's the base of the game. They just downplay T7 because they remember the bad, but forgot that all the bad T7 had has been carried over and made worse. I think defensive play is good, is tense, and gives you time to think. I don't think other successful fighting games are all about aggression like tekken is right now. If aggression was so fun people would be playing it. I agree with a comment here saying this T7 vs T8 argument is about preference of playstyle, and T8 indeed makes characters more unique it's undeniable, but that doesn't change the frustration. (and they made improvements to systems like heatbursts, dashes and smashes) The game may be fair, but it's frustrating and oppressive, and i don't think they should remove heat or chip or recoverable health, but i would however tone down damage overall when is character appropriate and all the infinite +frames they gave to each character to incentivize mashing. Just don't pretend the game is a masterpiece when someone upset at T7 looks at T8 and says it's the same but worse. And i'm even a casual, i don't put hours like other people, but comparing the casual/mashing experience in 7 compared to 8 is just miserable. I think a big big problem is also ranked putting nubs in the same rank as mid-skill players (with the game "no losing point" system). I think it's one of the biggest reasons that add frustration for the avarage guy.
"mindless defense" is a nonsensical term. In the first episode of Spag's podcast when speedkicks used it, Joey Fury did a great job dismantling it. Dudes like PhiDX, Knee and others could play high level defense in T7, but it wasn't something just anyone could do. Meanwhile as Joey said then, mindless offense is absolutely a thing in T8. Anyone can QCF4, WR2, b4,3, FC df1,4 you to death with dragunov in T8. i'm not completely hating T8, and it's getting better as things like tracking heat burst have been toned down. But imo more changes are needed. And I definitely enjoyed T7 more.
Tbh I don't feel Phidx was trying to bash T7 (at least from what I saw from his yt videos, I'm not on twitter/X) but more pointing out what wasn't perfect about the game and needing improving. Unfortunately the devs went completely overboard with the aggression in T8, I think they should try to find a middleground between the super defensive T7 and the overly aggressive T8 we have now. ^^
All the patches up until now are towards the right direction, I just don't know if that middle ground can be reached while the heat system exists because the whole game is balanced around it.
@@alexdano96it'll take retooling the heat system some. They have many options for toning it down and IDK what the best one is but those system changes are far from impossible What if most heat smashes were -1, for example? Or if heat engagers didn't dash you in for free? Or if heat burst spent your entire heat bar, so you had to pick between a strong defensive tool and trying to land that heat engager for the powerful heat moves? If I can drum this up off the top of my head as a relatively new player then I'd bet the Tekken team would have something much better. The only problem is whether they perceive these things as a problem like we do, but I think they've showed that much so far So I'll tentatively feel hopeful about it.
@snizzle6174 I'm down for all of that. I'm saying that maybe it's not possible because these are some very big changes and I don't know if they are willing to deviate so much from their original concept of heat.
@alexdano96 it's not without precedent in the genre, at least. Ggst, sfV, actually most fg's over years get massive changes across the board I imagine they would at least consider those kinds of changes when looking at their competitors choices and the results of it We'll just have to wait and see for sure, though
I’m going back to T7 I definitely had more fun with it & think there were more options in how you wanted to play, also because T8s net code can’t grant me more than 5-6matches without a connection error, used to be able to play T7 for hours on end with no trouble
Yup. Everything we see that's wrong with T8 started in the later seasons of T7. Think about it. Basically every character in this game almost as good as Launch Leroy. Half the cast has gaurdcrushing moves, or easy "get in" tools that are either homing, plus on block or enter heat and sometimes all 3 of those. They started stripping character weaknesses by giving them moves they didnt need and released characters that could do everything(Leroy, Zafina, Kuni, Fahk, Marduk) and all that same shitty philosophy found its way into T8.
It really is insane to me that the devs saw how people reacted to Fahk and Leroy and then they turn around and powercreep the WHOLE roster as if that would make it better lol
T7 before Leroy was def peak competitive Tekken. The only 3 problem characters were akuma, geese and noctis and at least 2 out of those 3 required skill to play with.
T7 provided more expressive ways of playing. You could be a super aggressive madman or a super defensive turtle. The game had way too many counter hit launchers which, in pro play, favoured a slower approach. T8 feels repetitive. For instance, whenever I match up against a Jin I feel like I've played the same round 1000 times before.
Is T7 a good game? Yes. Is T7 objectively worse than T8? Also Yes Cut all the useless argument, number doesn't lie. On steam, T7 is now at a 24-h peak player number of 726, while T8 at 6,899. Just check the number of MK11 and MK1, you will see what a true "better old game" be like.
T7 season 1 and 2 were awesome and i enjoyed wanting to put time in the game and get good. Things went downhill in my opinion after the EWGF got buffed and homing helsweeps. Thats where i saw things go downhill and t7 became so much less enjoyable.
I loved watching T7 and playing it. But at some point towards the end i was REALLY frustrated with getting counterhitted by safe ch launchers or ch strings that launched and losing 50+% hp to it. T7 was hype af to watch tho, even when it was arslan dominating with zaf and kuni on infinite stage, I still enjoyed it. T7 was a good game despite my frustration with all the ch's. T8 can get better and i am enjoying watching and playing T8 rn. We need to remember that there was no arcade release for T8 and it's only a little less than a year after it's release. Its still developing. I believe the game will get better based upon past updates and their stated intentions (even if not executed perfectly) personally. 👍🏾
So the bottom line is that T7 added shit in the DLC and went into a direction where the skill gap was closing and defensive options were too good. So if we nerf backdash, forget DLC and nerf Feng/Zafina we actually have a good Tekken game. T8 doubled down on everything people hated in 7. I felt the same way playing DLC characters like I feel in T8, helpless while losing to baboons.
If you join a t7 stream on mike hollows channel, you will definitely have way more fun than t8. It's leaps and bounds more fun And Tekken 7 had a LOT of play style variety. The forced aggression does not allow any of that in t8
I think this is objectively wrong. Characters if you don't include all the s tiers are much more unique in 8 compared to 7 where it felt like most of them where just playing for these mindless safe ch launchers especially with magic 4s. Like even king who is meant to be this grappler character had his b1. There are definitely a lot of changes that need to be made but once all the s tiers have been nerfed I think people will see how much better the variety and uniqueness this game offers compared to 7.
to add to the problem the s tiers and a tiers feels like you can just win with only 5 moves and there are more characters in tekken 7 making it more diverse
@@WzDk13literally every moveset of every char got changed to suit the rushdown playstyle if you think T8 has more playstyle variety or uniqueness you simply didnt know shit about t7
@@masajmahdiq2472 Yeah i can feel the bias from you lol. Im looking at things objectively as a fan of the 2 of these games which both have flaws and I'm seeing them making characters like steve or heihachi much more unique because not everyone plays the safe ch playstyle anymore which is only really played in 1 way in 7. Even if you say characters movesets have been made to suit rushdown this doesn't mean they play the same because a lot of characters minus the top tiers approach offense in their own unique way.
I haven't played a ton of Tekken 8 but tbh, as soon as i saw how powerful heat was and how reliant the game was on it, i kinda faded out of the game. The appeal of Tekken for me during the T7 era was that it didn't have "meter" mechanics. As much as i didn't like endgame Kunimitsu era T7, i still love that game to death!
T7 was more fun to watch tournaments because the comebacks were crazy and more rare, tekken 8 there is a potential comeback every set so its not as exciting when it happens
Also im so done with PhidX and his overly positive views on everything. Guys a clown, thinks hes way smarter then he actually is. Just cause you have a following, doesnt mean you're right.
People give Speedkicks too much time, I have nothing against him as I don't know him, but I have heard nothing but COMPLAINTS coming out of that dudes mouth since Early 2017. Yet here he is, playing the game every day and then going to Twitter immedately afterwards... TOXIC RELATIONSHIP 101! Last I heard he was "retired" XD... Tekken 7 caught lightning in a bottle. It certainly had issues. But Tekken 7 was probably the most culturally significant fighting game since Tekken 3. Fighting games were practically dead. Then Tekken 7 came out and reinvigorated interest in fighting games like we have not seen since the early 00’s TEKKEN 8 and the heat system on the other hand, are BRAINROT.
People complaining that defense was too strong in t7 were just bad at offense. Its that simple, it takes skill to open people up in that game unlike 8 where offense was made so easy a monkey can break down any defense
Tekken 7 wasn't a bad game, but people have to remember that we missed out on two years' worth of developments, and most people played 7 when it was patched up and all DLC dropped. Right now, 8 hasn't even gotten its 2nd season, so we have a lot of time to see if 8 can be worse than 7.
I started playing Tekken 7 at around January 2023 and I loved every second of it; The labbing, the combo practice, even trying to defend was enjoyable. In Tekken 8 I don't even want to lab characters because even if I understand how to defend against characters it doesn't increase my chances of defending because it is a 50/50 and I'm usually jailed or at extreme minus frames anyways. They simply pushed the game too far into the offensive category IMO. You used to have to develop defensive counter strategies against your opponents pay attention to timing, spacing all these factors, now you just wait for your turn setup your 50/50 and hope your 50/50's land.
I can’t respect PhiDX opinion on different Tekken games when he only started with T7 season 3 Idk why but he always sound like he doesn’t wanna lose relationship with bamco so he always gives political answers
T7 is better than T8. T8 has too many things that force thoughtless 50/50 situations. Too many moves that are plus on block, tracking, and power crush. I personally think chip damage and recovery are cool, but everything else is too much.
Main thing we aren't considering is that a Hwoarang player like Speedkicks would never lika a game with good defensive options like better backdash or sidestep.
@@grvtt0You're saying that as if he didn't make TWT Finals during Season 1. The issue is that Tekken 7 rewarded safe CH launchers and backdash too much. Sidestep was worse than previous Tekkens and even Tekken 8 in some respects.
I agree with Phidx. As someone who played and watched all seasons of tekken 7. Street Fighter 5 was still the most interesting to watch and play specifically due to infinite stages and back dash play. Even the developers were bored of it enough that they literally tried to take it out. After a while i just stopped watching top 8 matches until grand finals because i could not watch another time-out or a heath lead run away situation.
Tekken 7 was a low budget game that became a huge seller and had far less buggy inconsistent Bs compared to tekken 8. Tekken 8 deserves more scrutiny simply for the fact they’ve got no excuse considering they had a template to work from which was t7 and smooth it out but instead it’s way more all over the place than it’s ever been. With all the money invested in t8, there are far less excuses the devs can have for it being such a mess and being neglected
What? Tekken 7 was out for 2 years in arcade before it was released to consoles. That's 2 years of them collecting data and fixing bugs, and it was still buggy. Also, they did a lot of animations in tekken 8 from scratch as well as add an entire new system, whereas tekken 7 was still using tekken 5 assets.
@ they pretty much dumped the tekken 7 model in and changed visuals and added heat that’s why some of the same problems have come back if not worse. Cameraman being part of the roster at this point being one of those things as an easy example and as I said tekken 7 was extremely low budget, it had the excuse. Tekken 8 was made with a huge investment and is a complete mess, that’s the difference
@@raijinxfujin7314 No the models are definitely different. All the males are on steroids and has more muscle flexing. Females were also upgraded as well.
How about this, without the success, the success it achieved, of Tekken 7 there wouldn't be Tekken 8. If tekken 7 turned out like Tag 2 then there would be no Tekken 8. So think on it before you shit on tekken 7. Not saying that Tag 2 wasn't fun which it was for me but tekken 8 is not. Tekken 8 is good for anime like shit but as for proper competitive scene Tekken 8 is just just BS.
T7 was fun, and i think T8 is fun. The criticisms of both games comes down to playstyles. I do think backdash being so strong in T7 throughout the entirety of the game gives T8 the edge because they have time to make the game even better. They can buff sidesteps to create better defense, fix some of the tracking of strings, and also change heat properties. Maybe moves that are usually punishable when you use heat dash with them instead of them now being super plus change frame data on each heat dash move for each character to give ppl reasons to go for different ones.
I really dont understand people who want a reduced backdash, like i play a lot of tekken, bounce between blue ranks and king, like 90% of the playerbase struggle to kbd, it was the same in 7, ppl often do a little backdash sidestep shuffle type thing, especially in 7, dont see it so much in 8.
@ I believe the main reason people argue against T7’s backdash is it became the default option and best option when dealing with interactions. There wasn’t alot of point in sidestepping(which was already not that good in T7) when backdash was the answer to everything. To create a great fighting game you want there to be answers on defense to offense, but you don’t want one answer to dominate. So the goal would be backdash is strong enough to help you in certain situations, but sidestepping is strong enough to help you in other situations. Now as for your KBD concerns in ranked i think when you watch someone like Speedkicks play a character like Reina/Drag with a good KBD you can see how good it can be even with it not being as good as T7’s
It sounds like phidx is saying back dash in t7 was more powerful than in ttt2, which is absolutely not the case. Ttt2 has much more powerful movement than both t7 and t8
People complain about T8 that its unfun to play and super boiled down to just a bunch of mixups, and now people tell me that T7 is somehow bad or worse because of random proplayer problems that most people dont even had.
I mean Tekken 7 made me quit Tekken for like 3 or 4 years because it was everything I disliked about Tekken 6 dialled up to 10. But then during COVID i got into watching the competitive scene and after a couple of years I sort of reignited my passion for Tekken again. So I picked it back up and enjoyed the last Year or so quite a lot. I feel like everyone, casual or Pro, has to come to terms with the fact that the Tekken they fell in love with is no longer what everyones playing. It's in the past. Yes Tekken 8 will receive updates and can be improved but Tekken 7 is over. People will do better for accepting what Tekken 8 is and advocating for changes within that framework rather than simply just trying to recapture the joy of Tekken 7 again
I agree with what PhiDX said: lots of negative opinions might be from people who have come into this game from the late seasons of T7, such as the age of Leroy/Lidia/Fahkumram. Tekken 7 was a good game overall, but the 2ds, while contributing with a massive economical gain on a side, were one of its major flaws on the other.
A thing to note here: while Tekken 7 had good core gameplay (though the top level play in the last year or so was hella dry), it was frankly pretty bad in almost all other regards. I have, without exaggerating, lost a few hundred hours of my life to those loading screens when playing online, and that's only one of the issues that plagued it. When it comes to QoL stuff and being an overall product, T8 is FAR better than T7 was. Then again, I did play T7 actively for over half a decade and was willing to put up with the loading screens, crashes and awful lobbies, so even though it's not my favorite Tekken game overall (that's be T5DR), I do think the core gameplay is good.
To the people that dont understand how a fighting game can go from 30k players on release to averaging about 7k players now... these numbers are all based on steam only btw. So you can assume similar ratios but higher numbers counting console T7 had an all time high of 18.9k players and averaged less than 3k within only a year of its release. It spiked back yp for 5k roughly for a few months around major tournies. T8 is doing just fine. But whether people like it or not the casual base that buys a game on hype, enjoys it for a little bit and moves on. We may see them again in the future. But the game is plenty healthy. Its normal for almost any game, but especially foghting games, for the numbers to drop a lot. It is also normal for us to hate the thing we cant stop playing and for others to find other varieties of games to torture themselves with. Casuals go, they always do and thats why you dont cater your game to them. I dont say casual as an insult btw, it is just the way it is. Tekken isnt a game for casuals unless you are part of a group that is all casual. One person in the group catches that "i want to get better bug" and becomes better, pretty soon his friends dont want to play anymore unless they do the same.
7:23 !!!!!! That's what I dont understand How can you say this is the problem and what I disliked in tekken 7, but you love the same concepts turned up to 11, which is 8?!?! Inconsistent "philosophy" He had a hard time defending his points throughout the whole discussion
Knee vs JDCR is probably only copping shit in hindsight, due to how it influenced the (attempted) playstyle of average players. All well and good for two elites to employ those tactics against each other - but Twitter stans with garbage fundamentals trying to emulate it, led to t7s bad rap as a boring exercise in timidity. The complaints about t7 have always been there, it was just standard practice to disregard them in favor of pros. Low-level loudmouths trying to mimic high-level Tekken killed online play for a lot of ppl. Those high level sets are only hype in context, and with an understanding of who the players were. If those were your mates having drinks at your place, trading timeouts and backdashing the whole time, you would roast them for it
I think T7 was good game but boring for me. Pretty much attacking was death wish because there was so many safe CH. Thats why it was mostly pokes or wiff baiting. If somebody like this play style then great. Its not for me. Im not praying to TEKEN OLD GODS like its some kind of warhammer shit. Maybe Im scrub but I like to throw my flashy moves sometimes. T8 have lots of issues but at least stuff is happening. I like more risky play style. I believe that T8 have potential to be great they have to just tone down some stuff. Its much more stressful though but I dont mind.
I came in very late for Tekken 7 and had a lot of fun both playing and watching it, I also understand it had its issues and some characters were way too prominent. I feel very similarly about Tekken 8, I think all they need to do is tone down a couple of characters and we have an amazing game. And also Bandai-namco needs to tone down the aggressive monetization tactics.
I can't agree with Phi on s3-4 being 'out of the glory days' of 7. I watched tekken prior before delving into the game more deep end of s2/start of s3. I loved the game and watching aris commentary on jdcr vs majin and diving more serious into t7 in s3/4 felt similar. It didn't feel like I was watching a totally different game than playing it now. it was fun till the end.
This one is really interesting video, i think is okay that the game is different and have to accept the direction, but agree that the game is to toxic right now, the 50/50 are to strong, the options are so much on the offense that on defense they feel to limited to *Hard Reads* constantly. Hope to see the game change for the better and see nerfs across the board
A lot of this video, is the people besides phi assuming we were even around for older titles. Like, no dude, stop bringing up tag 2, we aren't talking about tag 2. We are talking about t7 vs t8. For new players like me who have given fighting games a chance in this literal renaissance of the genre over the past couple of years, we only experienced t8 and maybe a bit of t7. For me, the t8 experience has been so good. I have never worked so hard to learn and get good at a game before in my life. I dont think i would have done the same for t7, the esports scene to me was boring. Seeing so many rounds end with timeouts is boring to me. Infinite maps are boring, watching dudes kbd and ss around the arena not attacking eachother is boring to me. But thats just me, if you like that, t7 is still there, support t7 esports. Why is it that sf is the only franchise that supports older beloved titles in the esports scene?
honestly what makes T8 a bad game in comparison to T7 is that you have limited options not being able to do anythig for more than 10 seconds of pressure, most of the rounds end with perfect because of 50/50. not being able to move freely makes the game boring and there is no need to think of any strategy just keep attacking. T7 is fun because of that the more you invest in the fundamentals the more you will be able defeat poeple who are better than you.
8:44 to the point made here what is Arslan attempting to do to close out the round. Why are knees moves only safe and pokes. Both of those characters are notorious for their defensive options and keep out. (More defense) Arslan lost because he defaulted to playing the backup game instead of going for the win. He could have easily blocked the low with his skill or got the super good low parry but he’s on an infinite stage and the call is to kbd to oblivion. Knee had to take the risk and could have gotten blown up with any other character but he’s playing feng who by this time was buffed into oblivion with all the defensive options you could want. That wasn’t hype at all it was a bore fest. Hype is knee getting the orbital in T8 and making the comeback with a sick ass combo.
yesterday i hopped on ranked in tekken 7 again and had fun for 5 hours straight...never had this with tekken 8. i´m getting tired of that game in 1 hour or less....idk why.
For me personally, T7 was a bad game. Out of all the tekkens ever made, T7 is the version i played least. T8 is just addictive and very fun. T8 just hooks me and makes me want to play more. That is something that i never got from T7.
Both were not good. The only reason why Tekken 7 became popular and was pushed is because of the guest characters. Imagine without Akuma, Geese or Noctis. The game will just end up bad as T7 Vanilla and TTT2.
I wasn't in love with 7, especially after season 2. Not a fan of the heat system as well. I would say Tekken 8 is a better game overall but heat needs some serious rework cause rn it kills fun and creativity. Bamco didn't help in this whole situation with their scummy post launch, I think they are the biggest reason for player's disappointment. I hope season 2 can be good and tbh I'm pretty positive about it!
tekken 7 was a good game, the thing I dislike about tekken 8 that you guys don't cover is the chip damage the fact that even a heat dash pour on more chip is lame, I watch cbm chip an opponent's health all the way to one mix up by spamming jin's pressure option at the wall because of the threat of the heat smash the opponent just kept standing block then at last one hard low and the opponent lose without even being hit. the problem with tekken 8 is this : the opponent has 10-15% health left okay I got heat left go into heat use a power crush heat engager into heat dash one mix up, this is how I feel like how most rounds end if the winning player has heat. I honestly believe player react less and guess more in tekken 8 than any other tekken game., regardless it's just my opinion. but honestly I think people that said tekken 7 is a bad game or boring game it's because they either never play the game or they're just trying ignore the tekken 8 problems.
Everyone has their own opinions but I found T7 to be a very boring game to play, I don't think I even have 100 hours on it tops and the netcode was awfully bad
I think Tekken 7 would be the best Tekken so far if those 2D characters have no Meter bar,, DLC 2D characters destroys Tekken 7 imho Tekken 8 just need to be nerfed those plus frames,, to much plus frames,, everything was plus,, I think they should remove the heat engager,, heat burst and heat smash can stay and that heat dash can stay also, but the raw powercrush heat engager should be remove,, power crush can stay,, just remove the heat engager.. and tone down those plus frames for every characters.. and one more thing, Jin's heat smash shouldn't be wall splat, bro he hit you in the middle of the stage?! that frickin heat smash can wall splat you even in miles away.. that wall splat should be removed.
"tekken 7 lowers the skill gap because of brain-dead defensive counter hit tools". Well tekken 8 surely heighten the skill ceiling with high-IQ mashing....
I enjoyed Tekken 7 first seasons so much! Maybe even more than last season You didn't have too much stupid char, only the ones everyone could play (except Akuma op). Drag finna d2 was peak tekken Btw i talk about mid level player Tag 2? It was hardcore and amazing, no easy char to play!! No 1 button mash like Noctis or op new dlc thing that nobody knows Only hardcore tekken gameplay
What do you guys think? Was Tekken 7 a bad game? Or do people just have short-term memory?
Full podcast episode available here: ua-cam.com/video/uhX2pAm0qSo/v-deo.html
I liked T7, it was my first game. I get nostalgic when I hear the music and loved the game for a time. I think before covid it was fun, but got stale with the OP characters and lack of updates during covid. Fortunately, I think they patched the game decent and while its not perfect, its still overall a good game. At least with T8 being so bad, people may give T7 a second chance lol. Sorta like Star Wars prequel movies before all the Disney shit lol
ngl I miss t7 besides Akuma
Yes it was a horrible game and people who just want to Turtle..That's what they liked it because it rewarded never actually engaging in battle..Just dance around pretending you like want to attack..Waiting for someone to give in while you control space doing a safe counter hit launcher..As someone who loves offense it was impossible to be aggressive if I fight a turtle style..So I had to become a pus to adapt and win..If Lei Wulong wasn't in the game it would be second worse Tekken behind tekken 4
People 100% have short term memory. Tekken 7 was the game that blew up tekken in everyone's map and people aren't giving it the respect it deserves cause low rank simpletons can enjoy 50/50 gameplay of t8
@@tryingtochangemyways5074 idk man, attack with a good amount of the cast was good. Combos would also do over half health or more until they nerfed it. Rounds could end in under 10 seconds when that was the case
The Knee vs JDCR is what made me buy Tekken 7
Exactly.
@@mehrankhan7871 Same but with Tekken Tag 2
Same, idc what people think about 7 vs 8, but trying to claim those legendary t7 matches were boring is cap. Those games got people interested in the series again after it almost died with tag2. T7 also kept consistent player/viewers through entire time so everyone calling it boring is capping again
You know T8 has done irreparable damage when people on Twitter were calling Knee vs JDCR at REV Major 2017 “boring”
A lot of those matches were before Leroy Ana Fauk, literally once people started optimizing the game in season 3 T7 started falling off. Instead of adjusting characters properly they just gave everyone CH launchers at the end of strings.
T7 fell off after season 2, I can still keep watching tag 2 matches because the matches are way more dynamic than whatever pros were doing in T7 because movement was way better
Not to say that T7 didnt have hype stuff going for it, it absolutely did but the viewing experience tanked to oblivion at the end.
If someone can watch Knee vs Rickstah and not be hyped, tekken is not for you
T7 convinced people to get into tekken and learn it, t8 makes people want to quit tekken and play some other game
Yea funny thing is I got tired of the 50/50 style of tekken and move to ggst which is nothing but 50/50s but there are ways to get out of them if you play smart
@@small_pp_nrgy2072 i did the exact same thing tho i still play both games and then get surprised when i get hit while backdashing/neutral guarding in ggst and getting hit while ducking in tekken lmao
@@XAlpt yea I’m loving ggst the soundtrack is amazing and the characters are full of charisma, and my boy pot has amazing voice lines in Japanese, plus I’m having fun with the freedom of making combos and playing my own way, tekken kinda forced me to play by 2 or 3 combos and it got stale to me
Me completing my Pokedex while reading this comment. 😂
Why does Tekken 8 still have higher playerbase than what t7 ever had after 1 month then?
I think there's a misconception that T7 backdash was "too strong". It's not really that; many complained that movement was nerfed in T7. The issue was the insanely overtuned CH mechanic, where half of the roster's moves were CH launchers. This made approaching the opponent an anxiety fest, where you had to make sure to never be in range of or walk into CH moves, which led to a lot of cat n' mouse situations, particularly when one of the players had a significant health advantage. I do like about T8 that Ch is nerfed significantly.
i mostly agree with what you said but i disagree with the idea that CH is significantly less scary in T8, there are still a metric ton of CH launchers where you explode for 100 damage, or confirmable strings that are guaranteed on CH that either do a ton of damage or are heat engager or both. i mean if you've ever fought Bryan or Drag or Nina or Law, they all have such low risk high reward options that they wanna do anyway and if you just happen to get CH it's basically round over. as someone who plays Nina i very often launch my opponents by accident and pop heat and the next time my opponent gets off the ground they're guessing for their life.
Alot of "nerfed" CH launchers are now heat engagers, not as bad as getting launched but still cringe as hell
People are crazy tbh, T7 is the game which was played for 7-8 years which is a lot more than any other Tekken. If people were actually getting bored from T7 they would have left it already like they are leaving T8 now.
There were many hype sets in T7 like
-Arslan vs Knee at CB
-Arslan vs Ulsan at TWT 2023
-Knee vs Anakin at CB
-JDCR vs Knee at Rev Major
-Atif vs Chikurin at TWT Finals 2022
and many more sets were too good to watch.
Shills thinks otherwise 😂
If people quit and criticize tekken 7 during the evo japan year of leroy time... valid criticism and understand why they disliked the game, but overall tekken 7 was a good game.
Twitter isn't real life
If people are”leaving” Tekken right now, why does 8 still have 3-4 times the playerbase after 10 months than what 7 ever had?
This was an interesting flip on the situation, people on the bird app were complaining about the less than a year old Tekken 8 for months on end, sending Harada and Murray weird shit and calling for their deaths. Tekken 7 was great and people were posting to show the cycle that happens every tekken release and to take the rose tinted glasses off. There is nuance to both sides.
T8 is not a good game tho
@@codeine_ninja it is a good game tho. it can get much better still. it's like arcade phase of tekken 7 .
@@superslavbross9935 Not good if you compare a released game to a game in "beta phase".
@@superslavbross9935 it rlly aint tho, only delusional fanboys would think it is
@@codeine_ninjaor like... People who enjoy the game? Sorry to say but the game just wouldn't have a playerbase at all if it was truly terrible
Tbh "Tekken with rollback net code" probably just does it for a lot of people
It's the main reason I bought t8 and not t7, and I don't regret that
You don't have to like the game tho
I was there for the PhiDX vs Knee set at Evo NA 2023. The crowd was hyped AF to see him go toe to toe with Knee. I doubt a single person was thinking that the game was allowing Phi to close the skill gap. I'd be surprised if Phi himself was actually thinking that at the time. This sounds like the kind of thing that's said as further T7 revisionism to prop up T8.
The backdash heavy turtling playstyle that Phi excelled at was strong in T7, but it wasn't given to you by the game for free. You had to work hard to achieve that level of defense. Which is why for every arslan, knee, phi, and shadow, you also had aggressive players like lowhigh, ulsan, atif butt, nobi, khan and more.
The problem is… it wasn’t hard enough all the top players weren’t incentivized to spam it, true T7 was a lot better at Lower ranks because people aren’t 100 percent on their kbd but this is top level Tekken and that’s just the barrier to entry. When you got money on the line why do anything else but what’s optimal and that’s what PhiDX brings up. The game became so frame trap heavy that you just spammed get off me tools, reset neuch, and launched. That’s 3 options basically ro sham bo.
@@johnsmith-ol9qjtbh I think that last part more accurately describes T8. They've handed out plus frames like candy (Lee for example didn't really have any before, Drag with lows that leave him significantly plus oH). Combine that with how mashy people are cuz they're afraid to deal with a mixup and you can go out there and frametrap people all day. Neutral doesn't feel very fun in lots of cases due to the ranged options lots of chars have now that weren't there before. While being low risk or outright safe.
Defense was rewarded in t7, but there wasn't one style of play even at the highest level. Which is why I mentioned those other players who were aggressive and among the best in their regions at that
@@zafinaAnzu Where are all of these plus frames? A lot of these plus frames you seem to think now exist in Tekken 8, most of them have been legacy for a very long time. The huge plus frame on hit heat engagers aren't even a new idea either. Rage drives that were strong in 7 were giga + frame forced 50/50 central. Defense is still rewarded in Tekken 8. Idk where people get the idea that suddenly things are super different. You can actually move around at higher negative frame values like -7 and actually get something out of it. Literally watch any high level Tekken and you'll see the same shit you've seen in 7 just with heat as a flavoring. Either play the game or don't talk about it
@@DrClownPhD
let's see....
Kazuya: cd 1+2 (+5 oB), SS 1+2 (+5 oB)
lee: f4:1 (+5 oB), 1+2 (+2 into HMS used to be -4)
drag: FC df1,4 is +7 oH and db3+4 (thankfully nerfed to only +3 oH), QCF 4 at +7 oB the most unnecessary move in the game imo
law: get's to be +5 oB just because the other guy pressed forward after you block his WS 4
Zafina: d3 is now +7 oH so SWing her mixups is no longer possible
Lars: DEN 3 was made +5 oB to avoid any counterplay available at T8 launch
and that's just off the top of my head. So yes we've seen them hand out plus frames like candy. Hell their solution to buff Zafina in 1.04 was mostly to give her plus frames where she didn't need them.
There were some rage drives that were very plus in T7, but that wasn't the common case. Hell Kazumi's was -12 oB. Lee's was +3 oB.Law's was slow AF and -9 oB. And when they were heavily plus they had counterplay. Bad range, slow startup, terrible on whiff, etc.
On top of that a player only had access to the rage damage buff and either (1) rage drive or (2) rage art each round and only if they were below 50 hp. In T8, we have a rage damage buff, enhanced moves during heat, rage art, and multiple options for heat cash out (with either heat dash or heat smash). In T7 if you got CH out of a rage drive, you'd lose your access to rage. In T8, you get CH out of heat smash, you can just try again. The bar doesn't even get consumed. These mechanics are not at all comparable in how much they dominate the game.
Let's not even get into how problematic it is to have heat dash in a game with chars that are scary at the wall like Claudio or Bryan. They can just heat dash you to the wall and be +5 in your face by spending a resource they get for free at the start of every round.
I don't know where the hostility is coming from at the end of your comment, but I paid my 70 USD for this game just like the next guy. There's nothing wrong with criticizing it respectfully, and pointing out what i see as hypocrisy when people hate on T7 but glaze T8. I'm watching T8 competitive, and i'm happy for the players themselves (like AK getting that big CB win), but the gameplay itself is not at all what I've loved about tekken in the past. And as a fan of the series, there's nothing wrong with sharing my opinion so long as it's done amicably.
Ppl shitting on t7 like we didn't love the game. T7 would've been the last if it wasn't good, it literally gave us t8 which regardless of how u feel about it is the biggest budget the series has ever had for an installment for a reason.
11.8 million copies sold for a reason. Even if someone personally hates the game, they can't deny it saved the series
I personally prefer 8. Only had like 180 hours in 7, I'm already at 400 with 8. It just works better for me. I don't think that means one Game being better than the other, but we all have our preferences
@@zafinaAnzu 11.8 mil over a decade (factoring in multiple sales and being multi-platform). Let's not pretend it sold that much in the first year. There was some love for the game sure, but for many they simply made do with the only "new" tekken they had. T8 solves a lot of the things that made t7 a snorefest, Twitter be damned
@@Kabra2012 nobody's saying anything about it being year 1 sales. The point is people hate on t7 unreasonably (presumably you're one of them since you call it a snore fest). The point is it's the highest selling Tekken so far, saved the franchise from cancellation after tag 2 bombed, had tons of hype over they years, and was the entry where we started to see big sponsors like red bull, liquid and c9 in Tekken.
Whichever game you like more t7 deserves the nod for those achievements I'd say. Instead the pro t8 crowd just hates on it incessantly in order to prop up t8.
@@zafinaAnzu damn near took the words out of my mouth
Speedkicks.. always thought his opinions were weird.. but who's surprised that a Hwoarang main prefers hyper aggressive Tekken?
If you watch the entire podcast PhiDX basically says that speed kicks values interactivity over passive play. Tekken 8 is a lot more interactive than T7. To its detriment for some folks.
@FireTrainer92 I also prefer being interactive. There's not much interactivity when being stuck in Hwoarangs plus frames and mix ups though.
He said Akuma was B tier back in the day.
Pros are simply not more qualified than regular people to speak on these issues. Not all of them anyway
Speedkicks is a pompous kid with a huge ego, thinking his opinion is some god given gift, arrogant af
@@MultiAwesomered bro everyone said Akuma was B tier back in the day so that singling him out in this statement is kinda weird 😭
I like that PhiDX takes a very nuanced and in-depth approach to his analyses on Tekken. As much as I can understand the very valid complaints about T8 being TOO aggressive, at the same time I think it is valuable to have a discussion about the positives that the systems provide compared to previous iterations. And I do think his point about T8 being, in a lot of cases, somewhat polar opposite of T7 definitely makes it even more polarizing. It's very sensationalist because it's a case of two extremes (at least in his example, T7 being more defensive and T8 being more aggressive) and I think some nuance and honestly some helpful discussion is lost when a lot of the conversation becomes very... hyperbolic, let's say. I def get where people come from with how they feel about T8, and I think it comes from a totally valid place. But at the same time I think having constructive conversations about T8 is ultimately more fun and helpful and hopefully would reach the devs so they can improve the game as well. Anyways, I think Tekken 7 was great! But it had things I didn't like as much and T8 has things I do like a bit more. I don't think either game is bad, they're just different, and hopefully with some adjustments and tweaks T8 will find a nice spot where it can be crazy and fun but also not be frustratingly aggressive.
EDIT: I also really like the points that everyone in the podcast made about toning down characters that have advantages that they probably shouldn't. Like defensively oriented characters having overly strong offense. I do think that kind of muddies or dilute the identity of the character and ultimately in a fighting game, the diversity and uniqueness of the characters is a major factor. Nina being both a poke and chip master is a great example. She should probably do one or the other but not both. Yoshi should not be as strong offensively because of his access to strong defensive tools like Flash. Ultimately, I just want a nice balance that doesn't strip characters of their unique identity
I disagree that they're two opposites in a sense that t8 is a direct continuation of t7 ideas. Look how t7 is turning into t8 with each season. More wall carry, more canned string mixups, more damage, less Ch launchers more guaranteed mini combos, flipover and other Oki that leads to snowbally offense.
@@egrassa1480 I was more talking about how Phi uses the Extreme ends of the spectrum in his examples. How Tekken 7 at its most Defensive and T8 at its most Aggressive are very different in how they play. Yes T7 basically started laying the framework for stuff that came in T8, but people are STILL making the comparison between T7 and T8 when it comes to how these games play, even in the later seasons. I think that that is worth discussing in and of itself, but people seem to think it's better to just say one is better than the other and leave it at that. I think that's ultimately unhelpful and I'd rather pursue discussion that constructively addresses things, just like Phi said. Hell, even Spag's example of Knee vs JDCR was a great example. There's good things in both games!
There's one point i want to tackle/ disagree with in what you wrote. It's the idea that Tekken 7 and Tekken 8 have a sort of ying and yang relationship when it comes to defense and offense. I thinks that's one of the things Phidx spread in the community as an idea that is paradoxically right and wrong at the same time. Tekken 7 was definitely more defensive. It was moderately favored to that direction but not to the dosage of where only defensive minded players dominated most of the time. There were defensive players like knee, phidx himself, and there were hyper aggressive players like arslan ash, ulsan and atif for example. In the T7 pro scene, some matches was a technical mash fest. Others were like how jdcr's dragonuv vs knee's feng went; with lack of interactions and multiple kbd + ss. The matches were heavily unique depending on the characters used and who played them. As their tendencies and play seeped into their character. This was much bigger as an effect in the previous game before Tekken 8 made all characters lose "most" of their identity in their transition to becoming all rushdown.
In Tekken 7 Both type of playstyle tendencies were allowed to compete with roughly equal chances of winning. With Tekken 7 design giving maybe a natural 5-10% advantage to those who were played more defensively. Because of how that game was designed. But it wasn't an overwhelming advantage. Whereas tekken 8 was more aggressively favored but is around 30-40% natural advantage to those who were aggressive based. Defensive players couldnt breath until patch 1.05 and still the issue is at large. So again while tekken 7 is defensve and tekken 8 is aggressive, its not comparable as one game let both styles exist and the other doesn't to a higher degree. Also it has to be said that there are ways of making a game more aggressive that's good vs one that isn't. Making the game aggressive by increasing true casino gameplay isn't a good way. Making it aggressive in the direction again of Tekken 6, by making movement godlike is more like it. Imo at least.
Yeah i dont understand phi reasoning for why t7 is bad when t8 is a bigger offender of all his reasonings for thinking t7 was bad. T8 is designed to bridge the gap between pro player and casual so much so that any mid level player can beat a high level player as long as they inact their offense first because of T8 rewarding aggression. I'd rather lose to "mindless defense" in T7 than lose to brainless offense in T8
People got giga-mad angry at T7 cause of akuma, paul damage, fakh guardbreaks, fakh and leeroy mixups and hwoarang, kuni aggression the most, and now that's the base of the game.
They just downplay T7 because they remember the bad, but forgot that all the bad T7 had has been carried over and made worse. I think defensive play is good, is tense, and gives you time to think. I don't think other successful fighting games are all about aggression like tekken is right now.
If aggression was so fun people would be playing it.
I agree with a comment here saying this T7 vs T8 argument is about preference of playstyle, and T8 indeed makes characters more unique it's undeniable, but that doesn't change the frustration.
(and they made improvements to systems like heatbursts, dashes and smashes)
The game may be fair, but it's frustrating and oppressive, and i don't think they should remove heat or chip or recoverable health, but i would however tone down damage overall when is character appropriate and all the infinite +frames they gave to each character to incentivize mashing.
Just don't pretend the game is a masterpiece when someone upset at T7 looks at T8 and says it's the same but worse.
And i'm even a casual, i don't put hours like other people, but comparing the casual/mashing experience in 7 compared to 8 is just miserable.
I think a big big problem is also ranked putting nubs in the same rank as mid-skill players (with the game "no losing point" system).
I think it's one of the biggest reasons that add frustration for the avarage guy.
"mindless defense" is a nonsensical term. In the first episode of Spag's podcast when speedkicks used it, Joey Fury did a great job dismantling it. Dudes like PhiDX, Knee and others could play high level defense in T7, but it wasn't something just anyone could do. Meanwhile as Joey said then, mindless offense is absolutely a thing in T8. Anyone can QCF4, WR2, b4,3, FC df1,4 you to death with dragunov in T8.
i'm not completely hating T8, and it's getting better as things like tracking heat burst have been toned down. But imo more changes are needed. And I definitely enjoyed T7 more.
Actually really well said
Why didn’t a noname player win any tournaments so far then, if any mid level player can? Maybe you’re just yapping for no reason?
@@arpadszabo661 maybe you need to get good at Tekken instead of clinging onto a game that caters to bad players like you?
Tbh I don't feel Phidx was trying to bash T7 (at least from what I saw from his yt videos, I'm not on twitter/X) but more pointing out what wasn't perfect about the game and needing improving. Unfortunately the devs went completely overboard with the aggression in T8, I think they should try to find a middleground between the super defensive T7 and the overly aggressive T8 we have now. ^^
All the patches up until now are towards the right direction, I just don't know if that middle ground can be reached while the heat system exists because the whole game is balanced around it.
@@alexdano96it'll take retooling the heat system some. They have many options for toning it down and IDK what the best one is but those system changes are far from impossible
What if most heat smashes were -1, for example? Or if heat engagers didn't dash you in for free? Or if heat burst spent your entire heat bar, so you had to pick between a strong defensive tool and trying to land that heat engager for the powerful heat moves?
If I can drum this up off the top of my head as a relatively new player then I'd bet the Tekken team would have something much better.
The only problem is whether they perceive these things as a problem like we do, but I think they've showed that much so far
So I'll tentatively feel hopeful about it.
@snizzle6174 I'm down for all of that. I'm saying that maybe it's not possible because these are some very big changes and I don't know if they are willing to deviate so much from their original concept of heat.
@alexdano96 it's not without precedent in the genre, at least. Ggst, sfV, actually most fg's over years get massive changes across the board
I imagine they would at least consider those kinds of changes when looking at their competitors choices and the results of it
We'll just have to wait and see for sure, though
Nah he behaves like a paid cheerleader for Namco
T7 s2 has so much epic moments. I hope T8 catches that magic again, but without something like akuma.
Akuma is tekken 8😂
I’m going back to T7 I definitely had more fun with it & think there were more options in how you wanted to play, also because T8s net code can’t grant me more than 5-6matches without a connection error, used to be able to play T7 for hours on end with no trouble
T7, where the matchmaking never got patched, lmao. Blaming t8 for your connection issue is hilarious, but have fun with the remaining 500 players
Personally I think T7 was pretty good but it got worse by patches
Yeah s1-s2 were peak, it went downhill from s3
I agree, first years of Tekken where amazing. Then they have added too many ass char, and added too many mechanics
Yup. Everything we see that's wrong with T8 started in the later seasons of T7. Think about it. Basically every character in this game almost as good as Launch Leroy. Half the cast has gaurdcrushing moves, or easy "get in" tools that are either homing, plus on block or enter heat and sometimes all 3 of those. They started stripping character weaknesses by giving them moves they didnt need and released characters that could do everything(Leroy, Zafina, Kuni, Fahk, Marduk) and all that same shitty philosophy found its way into T8.
Knee vs arslan at combo breaker and arslan vs ulsan at the final T7 twt final were one of the greatest matches for me.
Every t8 character feels like an S tier t7 character and the top 10 in t8 feel like S tier sf6 characters
It really is insane to me that the devs saw how people reacted to Fahk and Leroy and then they turn around and powercreep the WHOLE roster as if that would make it better lol
Dude jack was nerfed in t8, all his core tools are nerfed compared to t7, the only thing he has is 10f high hit smash.
T7 before Leroy was def peak competitive Tekken. The only 3 problem characters were akuma, geese and noctis and at least 2 out of those 3 required skill to play with.
Noctis? Over Negan? Wtf lol
@ I’m talking around season 1 to 2 right before neegan
T8 wont be fun until they significantly improve defense and tone down the heat abilities. Might have to try T7 again soon lol
Atleast you don’t wait 3 minutes for the match loading screen
T7 provided more expressive ways of playing. You could be a super aggressive madman or a super defensive turtle. The game had way too many counter hit launchers which, in pro play, favoured a slower approach. T8 feels repetitive. For instance, whenever I match up against a Jin I feel like I've played the same round 1000 times before.
Is T7 a good game? Yes.
Is T7 objectively worse than T8? Also Yes
Cut all the useless argument, number doesn't lie. On steam, T7 is now at a 24-h peak player number of 726, while T8 at 6,899. Just check the number of MK11 and MK1, you will see what a true "better old game" be like.
T7 season 1 and 2 were awesome and i enjoyed wanting to put time in the game and get good. Things went downhill in my opinion after the EWGF got buffed and homing helsweeps. Thats where i saw things go downhill and t7 became so much less enjoyable.
Seeing T7 pro games vs T8 pro games is not fair. T8 you barely recognize a pro from a tekken king/emperor.
I loved watching T7 and playing it. But at some point towards the end i was REALLY frustrated with getting counterhitted by safe ch launchers or ch strings that launched and losing 50+% hp to it.
T7 was hype af to watch tho, even when it was arslan dominating with zaf and kuni on infinite stage, I still enjoyed it.
T7 was a good game despite my frustration with all the ch's.
T8 can get better and i am enjoying watching and playing T8 rn. We need to remember that there was no arcade release for T8 and it's only a little less than a year after it's release. Its still developing.
I believe the game will get better based upon past updates and their stated intentions (even if not executed perfectly) personally. 👍🏾
Thanks for making a short snippet of the episode, this definitely helps people engage more because this makes me want to watch the whole episode now.
Tekken 7's movement and the meditative equilibrium of its neutral gameplay was pure perfection.
PHIDX is a sellout ..
So the bottom line is that T7 added shit in the DLC and went into a direction where the skill gap was closing and defensive options were too good. So if we nerf backdash, forget DLC and nerf Feng/Zafina we actually have a good Tekken game. T8 doubled down on everything people hated in 7. I felt the same way playing DLC characters like I feel in T8, helpless while losing to baboons.
If you join a t7 stream on mike hollows channel, you will definitely have way more fun than t8. It's leaps and bounds more fun
And Tekken 7 had a LOT of play style variety. The forced aggression does not allow any of that in t8
This is exactly my biggest problem with 8. Playstyle variety should be returned.
I think this is objectively wrong. Characters if you don't include all the s tiers are much more unique in 8 compared to 7 where it felt like most of them where just playing for these mindless safe ch launchers especially with magic 4s. Like even king who is meant to be this grappler character had his b1. There are definitely a lot of changes that need to be made but once all the s tiers have been nerfed I think people will see how much better the variety and uniqueness this game offers compared to 7.
to add to the problem the s tiers and a tiers feels like you can just win with only 5 moves and there are more characters in tekken 7 making it more diverse
@@WzDk13literally every moveset of every char got changed to suit the rushdown playstyle if you think T8 has more playstyle variety or uniqueness you simply didnt know shit about t7
@@masajmahdiq2472 Yeah i can feel the bias from you lol. Im looking at things objectively as a fan of the 2 of these games which both have flaws and I'm seeing them making characters like steve or heihachi much more unique because not everyone plays the safe ch playstyle anymore which is only really played in 1 way in 7. Even if you say characters movesets have been made to suit rushdown this doesn't mean they play the same because a lot of characters minus the top tiers approach offense in their own unique way.
I haven't played a ton of Tekken 8 but tbh, as soon as i saw how powerful heat was and how reliant the game was on it, i kinda faded out of the game. The appeal of Tekken for me during the T7 era was that it didn't have "meter" mechanics. As much as i didn't like endgame Kunimitsu era T7, i still love that game to death!
T7 was more fun to watch tournaments because the comebacks were crazy and more rare, tekken 8 there is a potential comeback every set so its not as exciting when it happens
Tekken 7 Season 3 (before Leroy dropped) was peak Tekken.
Also im so done with PhidX and his overly positive views on everything. Guys a clown, thinks hes way smarter then he actually is. Just cause you have a following, doesnt mean you're right.
I'm not on Twitter or anything; I just watch Tekken throughout the year. 7 was a great era for the series.
People give Speedkicks too much time, I have nothing against him as I don't know him, but I have heard nothing but COMPLAINTS coming out of that dudes mouth since Early 2017. Yet here he is, playing the game every day and then going to Twitter immedately afterwards... TOXIC RELATIONSHIP 101! Last I heard he was "retired" XD...
Tekken 7 caught lightning in a bottle. It certainly had issues. But Tekken 7 was probably the most culturally significant fighting game since Tekken 3. Fighting games were practically dead. Then Tekken 7 came out and reinvigorated interest in fighting games like we have not seen since the early 00’s
TEKKEN 8 and the heat system on the other hand, are BRAINROT.
People complaining that defense was too strong in t7 were just bad at offense. Its that simple, it takes skill to open people up in that game unlike 8 where offense was made so easy a monkey can break down any defense
@@orugnet and people who are complaining offense is too strong in T8 are just bad at defense.... it goes both ways
T7 is what got me into tekken and T8 is what's gonna make me leave 😂
Tekken 7 wasn't a bad game, but people have to remember that we missed out on two years' worth of developments, and most people played 7 when it was patched up and all DLC dropped.
Right now, 8 hasn't even gotten its 2nd season, so we have a lot of time to see if 8 can be worse than 7.
I started playing Tekken 7 at around January 2023 and I loved every second of it; The labbing, the combo practice, even trying to defend was enjoyable. In Tekken 8 I don't even want to lab characters because even if I understand how to defend against characters it doesn't increase my chances of defending because it is a 50/50 and I'm usually jailed or at extreme minus frames anyways. They simply pushed the game too far into the offensive category IMO. You used to have to develop defensive counter strategies against your opponents pay attention to timing, spacing all these factors, now you just wait for your turn setup your 50/50 and hope your 50/50's land.
Ding Ding Ding!
PhiDX and Speekicks have terrible takes, Spag & Rip know damn well T7 was hype af. from 2017-2019 the tournaments were amazing.
I can’t respect PhiDX opinion on different Tekken games when he only started with T7 season 3
Idk why but he always sound like he doesn’t wanna lose relationship with bamco so he always gives political answers
T7 is better than T8. T8 has too many things that force thoughtless 50/50 situations. Too many moves that are plus on block, tracking, and power crush. I personally think chip damage and recovery are cool, but everything else is too much.
"Why is everyone shitting on Tekken 7?" while Phidx is smirking.
every second video is phidx saying tekken 7 was trash the whole time (totally not defending tekken 8)
Main thing we aren't considering is that a Hwoarang player like Speedkicks would never lika a game with good defensive options like better backdash or sidestep.
Speedkicks loves ttt2 which rewarded defense more than t7 lol
@@LR669Because he had a career in that game whereas t7 he was no match for anyone.
@@grvtt07 is the easier game. He would be on the same wave in 7 as tag 2 & 8
@@grvtt0You're saying that as if he didn't make TWT Finals during Season 1. The issue is that Tekken 7 rewarded safe CH launchers and backdash too much. Sidestep was worse than previous Tekkens and even Tekken 8 in some respects.
@@LR669 lol
he openly opposes good backdash, something which Hwoarang mains usually hate.
T7 < T8. Spag wearing sunglasses inside < anyone not
But it will hurt your eyes long term
"Braindead defensive" is the wildest statement.
Tekken 7 saved tekken, tag 2 had the franchise dead
I agree with Phidx. As someone who played and watched all seasons of tekken 7. Street Fighter 5 was still the most interesting to watch and play specifically due to infinite stages and back dash play. Even the developers were bored of it enough that they literally tried to take it out. After a while i just stopped watching top 8 matches until grand finals because i could not watch another time-out or a heath lead run away situation.
Tekken 7 was a low budget game that became a huge seller and had far less buggy inconsistent Bs compared to tekken 8. Tekken 8 deserves more scrutiny simply for the fact they’ve got no excuse considering they had a template to work from which was t7 and smooth it out but instead it’s way more all over the place than it’s ever been. With all the money invested in t8, there are far less excuses the devs can have for it being such a mess and being neglected
What? Tekken 7 was out for 2 years in arcade before it was released to consoles. That's 2 years of them collecting data and fixing bugs, and it was still buggy. Also, they did a lot of animations in tekken 8 from scratch as well as add an entire new system, whereas tekken 7 was still using tekken 5 assets.
@ they pretty much dumped the tekken 7 model in and changed visuals and added heat that’s why some of the same problems have come back if not worse. Cameraman being part of the roster at this point being one of those things as an easy example and as I said tekken 7 was extremely low budget, it had the excuse. Tekken 8 was made with a huge investment and is a complete mess, that’s the difference
@@raijinxfujin7314 No the models are definitely different. All the males are on steroids and has more muscle flexing. Females were also upgraded as well.
@ I never said character models, I said the model of the game.
@@torysteller4475 Namco also still uses old animations from older games and some assets are also taken from T7.
TEKKEN 7 was peak Tekken #Spag #Spag_TK 👑
LOL? TTT1 was peak Tekken
How about this, without the success, the success it achieved, of Tekken 7 there wouldn't be Tekken 8. If tekken 7 turned out like Tag 2 then there would be no Tekken 8. So think on it before you shit on tekken 7. Not saying that Tag 2 wasn't fun which it was for me but tekken 8 is not. Tekken 8 is good for anime like shit but as for proper competitive scene Tekken 8 is just just BS.
I think launch T8 was amazing. Everyone felt overpowered. Then slowly but surely the gaps starting happening, like Jun, then Drag and more.
Tekken 7 wasn't a bad game. It had a bad meta that made everyone play the same. To put it simply
Question is why do you not play Tekken 7 from time to time in your stream if you miss it?
T7 was fun, and i think T8 is fun. The criticisms of both games comes down to playstyles. I do think backdash being so strong in T7 throughout the entirety of the game gives T8 the edge because they have time to make the game even better. They can buff sidesteps to create better defense, fix some of the tracking of strings, and also change heat properties. Maybe moves that are usually punishable when you use heat dash with them instead of them now being super plus change frame data on each heat dash move for each character to give ppl reasons to go for different ones.
I really dont understand people who want a reduced backdash, like i play a lot of tekken, bounce between blue ranks and king, like 90% of the playerbase struggle to kbd, it was the same in 7, ppl often do a little backdash sidestep shuffle type thing, especially in 7, dont see it so much in 8.
@ I believe the main reason people argue against T7’s backdash is it became the default option and best option when dealing with interactions. There wasn’t alot of point in sidestepping(which was already not that good in T7) when backdash was the answer to everything. To create a great fighting game you want there to be answers on defense to offense, but you don’t want one answer to dominate. So the goal would be backdash is strong enough to help you in certain situations, but sidestepping is strong enough to help you in other situations. Now as for your KBD concerns in ranked i think when you watch someone like Speedkicks play a character like Reina/Drag with a good KBD you can see how good it can be even with it not being as good as T7’s
Was Tekken 7 season 1 as good as Tekken 8 season 1 (which we are still in)?
It sounds like phidx is saying back dash in t7 was more powerful than in ttt2, which is absolutely not the case. Ttt2 has much more powerful movement than both t7 and t8
People complain about T8 that its unfun to play and super boiled down to just a bunch of mixups, and now people tell me that T7 is somehow bad or worse because of random proplayer problems that most people dont even had.
I mean Tekken 7 made me quit Tekken for like 3 or 4 years because it was everything I disliked about Tekken 6 dialled up to 10.
But then during COVID i got into watching the competitive scene and after a couple of years I sort of reignited my passion for Tekken again. So I picked it back up and enjoyed the last Year or so quite a lot.
I feel like everyone, casual or Pro, has to come to terms with the fact that the Tekken they fell in love with is no longer what everyones playing. It's in the past.
Yes Tekken 8 will receive updates and can be improved but Tekken 7 is over. People will do better for accepting what Tekken 8 is and advocating for changes within that framework rather than simply just trying to recapture the joy of Tekken 7 again
I agree with what PhiDX said: lots of negative opinions might be from people who have come into this game from the late seasons of T7, such as the age of Leroy/Lidia/Fahkumram.
Tekken 7 was a good game overall, but the 2ds, while contributing with a massive economical gain on a side, were one of its major flaws on the other.
Tekken 7 is one of the best fighting games of all time. Its good ass tekken, although I wish side steps were stronger in tekken 7
Agreed. Definitely the best Tekken of the series. Tekken 8 isnt even fun to watch
The downplay of Feng Wei is so obvious in protecting him for those that use him.
MainMan started that BS. Tekken 7 was a masterpiece
everybody is sitting on the fence , no real opinion
A thing to note here: while Tekken 7 had good core gameplay (though the top level play in the last year or so was hella dry), it was frankly pretty bad in almost all other regards. I have, without exaggerating, lost a few hundred hours of my life to those loading screens when playing online, and that's only one of the issues that plagued it. When it comes to QoL stuff and being an overall product, T8 is FAR better than T7 was.
Then again, I did play T7 actively for over half a decade and was willing to put up with the loading screens, crashes and awful lobbies, so even though it's not my favorite Tekken game overall (that's be T5DR), I do think the core gameplay is good.
As Ty said: "Revisionist history"
To the people that dont understand how a fighting game can go from 30k players on release to averaging about 7k players now... these numbers are all based on steam only btw. So you can assume similar ratios but higher numbers counting console
T7 had an all time high of 18.9k players and averaged less than 3k within only a year of its release. It spiked back yp for 5k roughly for a few months around major tournies.
T8 is doing just fine. But whether people like it or not the casual base that buys a game on hype, enjoys it for a little bit and moves on. We may see them again in the future. But the game is plenty healthy. Its normal for almost any game, but especially foghting games, for the numbers to drop a lot.
It is also normal for us to hate the thing we cant stop playing and for others to find other varieties of games to torture themselves with.
Casuals go, they always do and thats why you dont cater your game to them. I dont say casual as an insult btw, it is just the way it is. Tekken isnt a game for casuals unless you are part of a group that is all casual. One person in the group catches that "i want to get better bug" and becomes better, pretty soon his friends dont want to play anymore unless they do the same.
7:23
!!!!!!
That's what I dont understand
How can you say this is the problem and what I disliked in tekken 7, but you love the same concepts turned up to 11, which is 8?!?!
Inconsistent "philosophy"
He had a hard time defending his points throughout the whole discussion
Are this people crazy? Tekken 7 made come back to Tekken since Tekken 3.....
Knee vs JDCR is probably only copping shit in hindsight, due to how it influenced the (attempted) playstyle of average players. All well and good for two elites to employ those tactics against each other - but Twitter stans with garbage fundamentals trying to emulate it, led to t7s bad rap as a boring exercise in timidity.
The complaints about t7 have always been there, it was just standard practice to disregard them in favor of pros. Low-level loudmouths trying to mimic high-level Tekken killed online play for a lot of ppl. Those high level sets are only hype in context, and with an understanding of who the players were. If those were your mates having drinks at your place, trading timeouts and backdashing the whole time, you would roast them for it
Compared to Tekken 7 T8 characters feel like cotton balls … I don’t know if it’s the new sound design but in T7 everything felt more heavy
I think T7 was good game but boring for me. Pretty much attacking was death wish because there was so many safe CH. Thats why it was mostly pokes or wiff baiting. If somebody like this play style then great. Its not for me. Im not praying to TEKEN OLD GODS like its some kind of warhammer shit. Maybe Im scrub but I like to throw my flashy moves sometimes. T8 have lots of issues but at least stuff is happening. I like more risky play style. I believe that T8 have potential to be great they have to just tone down some stuff. Its much more stressful though but I dont mind.
The intro of 2d characters and meter is what killed the franchise. Everyone is Geese in T8.
I came in very late for Tekken 7 and had a lot of fun both playing and watching it, I also understand it had its issues and some characters were way too prominent.
I feel very similarly about Tekken 8, I think all they need to do is tone down a couple of characters and we have an amazing game.
And also Bandai-namco needs to tone down the aggressive monetization tactics.
Not gonna lie. I only bought Tekken 7 because it was on Steam. Before that, only played Tekken 6 on PSP and Tekken 5 on PS2.
I can't agree with Phi on s3-4 being 'out of the glory days' of 7. I watched tekken prior before delving into the game more deep end of s2/start of s3. I loved the game and watching aris commentary on jdcr vs majin and diving more serious into t7 in s3/4 felt similar. It didn't feel like I was watching a totally different game than playing it now. it was fun till the end.
Weird how there are people are misrepresenting phidx’s points here. Like it’s all on camera yet people are trying to claim he hates t7.
This one is really interesting video, i think is okay that the game is different and have to accept the direction, but agree that the game is to toxic right now, the 50/50 are to strong, the options are so much on the offense that on defense they feel to limited to *Hard Reads* constantly.
Hope to see the game change for the better and see nerfs across the board
A lot of this video, is the people besides phi assuming we were even around for older titles. Like, no dude, stop bringing up tag 2, we aren't talking about tag 2. We are talking about t7 vs t8.
For new players like me who have given fighting games a chance in this literal renaissance of the genre over the past couple of years, we only experienced t8 and maybe a bit of t7. For me, the t8 experience has been so good. I have never worked so hard to learn and get good at a game before in my life. I dont think i would have done the same for t7, the esports scene to me was boring. Seeing so many rounds end with timeouts is boring to me. Infinite maps are boring, watching dudes kbd and ss around the arena not attacking eachother is boring to me.
But thats just me, if you like that, t7 is still there, support t7 esports. Why is it that sf is the only franchise that supports older beloved titles in the esports scene?
i noticed speed was not invited to this episode 😶
honestly what makes T8 a bad game in comparison to T7 is that you have limited options not being able to do anythig for more than 10 seconds of pressure, most of the rounds end with perfect because of 50/50. not being able to move freely makes the game boring and there is no need to think of any strategy just keep attacking. T7 is fun because of that the more you invest in the fundamentals the more you will be able defeat poeple who are better than you.
8:44 to the point made here what is Arslan attempting to do to close out the round. Why are knees moves only safe and pokes. Both of those characters are notorious for their defensive options and keep out. (More defense) Arslan lost because he defaulted to playing the backup game instead of going for the win. He could have easily blocked the low with his skill or got the super good low parry but he’s on an infinite stage and the call is to kbd to oblivion. Knee had to take the risk and could have gotten blown up with any other character but he’s playing feng who by this time was buffed into oblivion with all the defensive options you could want. That wasn’t hype at all it was a bore fest. Hype is knee getting the orbital in T8 and making the comeback with a sick ass combo.
yesterday i hopped on ranked in tekken 7 again and had fun for 5 hours straight...never had this with tekken 8. i´m getting tired of that game in 1 hour or less....idk why.
I prefer the song and dance of T7 even now. Movement in 8 is much better however
For me personally, T7 was a bad game. Out of all the tekkens ever made, T7 is the version i played least. T8 is just addictive and very fun. T8 just hooks me and makes me want to play more. That is something that i never got from T7.
7:33 Bryan QCf+1+2. Victor UF+1+2, Drag QCF+3. Done easy!
Both were not good. The only reason why Tekken 7 became popular and was pushed is because of the guest characters. Imagine without Akuma, Geese or Noctis. The game will just end up bad as T7 Vanilla and TTT2.
Speed kicks opinions are very Strange... But I just think he's just advocating his character works in a game that works for that type of character
T7 was great, player just too young to witness the glory. Every installment attracts different kind of players.
I wasn't in love with 7, especially after season 2.
Not a fan of the heat system as well.
I would say Tekken 8 is a better game overall but heat needs some serious rework cause rn it kills fun and creativity.
Bamco didn't help in this whole situation with their scummy post launch, I think they are the biggest reason for player's disappointment.
I hope season 2 can be good and tbh I'm pretty positive about it!
Tekken 7 clearly had some issues with to much defence but they went overboard in T8 no doubt.
tekken 7 was a good game, the thing I dislike about tekken 8 that you guys don't cover is the chip damage the fact that even a heat dash pour on more chip is lame, I watch cbm chip an opponent's health all the way to one mix up by spamming jin's pressure option at the wall because of the threat of the heat smash the opponent just kept standing block then at last one hard low and the opponent lose without even being hit. the problem with tekken 8 is this : the opponent has 10-15% health left okay I got heat left go into heat use a power crush heat engager into heat dash one mix up, this is how I feel like how most rounds end if the winning player has heat. I honestly believe player react less and guess more in tekken 8 than any other tekken game., regardless it's just my opinion. but honestly I think people that said tekken 7 is a bad game or boring game it's because they either never play the game or they're just trying ignore the tekken 8 problems.
Fuck the drama. Much ❤
Everyone has their own opinions but I found T7 to be a very boring game to play, I don't think I even have 100 hours on it tops and the netcode was awfully bad
Everything after Tekken 5 is bad: rage art is to blame 🤷🏾♂️😂😭💀
I think Tekken 7 would be the best Tekken so far if those 2D characters have no Meter bar,, DLC 2D characters destroys Tekken 7 imho
Tekken 8 just need to be nerfed those plus frames,, to much plus frames,, everything was plus,,
I think they should remove the heat engager,, heat burst and heat smash can stay and that heat dash can stay also, but the raw powercrush heat engager should be remove,, power crush can stay,, just remove the heat engager.. and tone down those plus frames for every characters.. and one more thing, Jin's heat smash shouldn't be wall splat, bro he hit you in the middle of the stage?! that frickin heat smash can wall splat you even in miles away.. that wall splat should be removed.
We need Kuni back baaaad spent more then 800hrs on TT2 with her I feel there's no characters in T8 no AK, no Kuni, No christie(fuck eddy)
T7 is tekken's street fighter 4
"tekken 7 lowers the skill gap because of brain-dead defensive counter hit tools". Well tekken 8 surely heighten the skill ceiling with high-IQ mashing....
I enjoyed Tekken 7 first seasons so much! Maybe even more than last season
You didn't have too much stupid char, only the ones everyone could play (except Akuma op). Drag finna d2 was peak tekken
Btw i talk about mid level player
Tag 2? It was hardcore and amazing, no easy char to play!! No 1 button mash like Noctis or op new dlc thing that nobody knows
Only hardcore tekken gameplay