Time, sweat and tears! That being said, I'm an illustrator who's been very keen on making comics but didn't have many storytelling chops, so I teamed up with an author friend of mine to get a graphic novel project done- entirely for free! Since it belongs to both of us, we are trying to publish it together. That could be another way to get around the cost thing, befriend an artist who is interested in trying their hand at comics, try to make a story with one of their characters. But it has to be a collaboration, they cannot be working for you nor you for them, you have to work together. I understand this might be rare and difficult to do something like this but those are my two cents.
@@MrHazz111 I love hearing that this was an avenue that worked for you both. It’s true this is an area I didn’t event cover. It’s just a rare one. Many go looking for a “collaborator” but I have learned in my own experience that rarely works for a number of reasons, not only that the artist may become unmotivated but because there are so many other hurdles to figure out you as a writer don’t want to leave your collaborator hanging. But super cool you guys accomplished this!
great explanation. You could do the sequel about how much to expect to recover and what is the publisher's policy regarding payment (during, after, never...) :D
Here's an issue with the industry. Brand new people that bring zero Return on Investment, expect to make standard rates. Like every job, you need experience to be worth that, just like every job. I keep hearing writers having to pay for the artists they are working with. Alex Guinness lowered his rate to play Obi Wan and accepted a portion of profits of Star Wars. Artists should be willing to work on a model that is both, a rate and profit share, so that way they may find themselves with a lifetime of revenue, rather than like when Barry Manilow was paid $500 upfront for the State Farm Jingle and ZERO residuals. Artists are constantly told to ask for top dollar, and guess what, they find themselves with no work, or being people that only do prints at shows. They think they are J Scott Campbell and can request $300-500 for a cover, and their name means nothing. I'll leave that there, and I wrote a book on what to expect when trying to make comics, and it's available on Amazon.
@@RobPotchak I’ll have to look into this book! To be fair, if someone wants profit sharing my hope is that they would be putting in some sort of value beyond just artwork. I am okay to pay their rate because I know exactly how I want to market my book and so I am okay with a work for hire model because I have figured out a lot of the details that exist on the back half of making a project.
@@creatorowned851 sure, and each model has their advantages. My point was that artists with no name recognition want Marvel pay scale when there is no return on investment and it seems that most writers are left footing the cost on everything ...just because. And I've done both sides of comics, as well as coloring, lettering and editing, and it's always the same. I try to find like-minded people, which means "I want a library of my work out there for folks." I want people to recognize my name, and I want to sell/license a property to become a movie, TV or a video game. When that happens, I even welcome the idea of bringing the artists on as designers so they get credits. But everyone telling artists they should command a rate, but writers should pay for everything is ridiculous. The creator/writer deserves to get paid as well, but that only seems to happen on the back end.
@@RobPotchak yeah I personally feel like there is a lack of appreciation for the fact that writers are just as often totally “on their own” in this world of independent comic creation. To suggest the time and effort a writer invests compared to that put into illustration is an oversimplification just because it is quicker. It definitely is quicker but once you outline, write, rewrite, edit, and so on- eh, not significantly quicker.
If you’re hiring an artist for YOUR idea you have to be willing to take the cut. Not the other way around. A percentage of nothing is NOTHING. It’s different if your character is Spider-Man and an artist wants the visibility a character like that brings. Unless you have an audience of a few million and have already published work to a success might a BEGINNER Artist with no name consider working for you at a lower rate for exposure. Having any artist of talent sit and design YOUR characters and draw YOUR story that no one knows about is not EVER going to be appealing even if you cut them a back end deal. A back end deal of what? What was your last work? What was your profit margin on that published release? How many people are you reaching daily with your works? Can you offer the artist exposure on a platform you market yourself on? You need to create a win / win situation and establish rapport. Best way to do that? Pay them what they’re valued at. Creating for a Hollywood deal is a pipe dream. You have to work doubly hard to get their attention and you have to adapt for whatever medium which again takes time and money. Be realistic and grounded in your approach and start small.
Good breakdown. A good professional looking comic would run for 150-200 for lineart and 60- 80 for color. 15-20 for letters. Per page. Covers should be 350 and up: the sky’s the limit. Consider the time you’re investing per page. This is a conservative estimate. Don’t throw away your health and family time working for peanuts, you’ll end up regretting it.
@@dymaraway4651 it’s a broad spectrum for sure. I have another video “how to make money” that gives advice on re-monetizing your artwork outside of just the page rate!
At 11:22 when you talk about costs such as printing, distribution, marketing, etc….would a publisher (like Image or Dark Horse) take on some of those costs? PS: just found your channel -!: J love the videos, I’ve binged about 5+ in a row!!
Just finished my first comic book project that i wrote. It was successfully funded on Kickstarter, but wow what a learning experience. I kept it to 16 pages of art to keep the cost down.
If it takes the artist a full work day to produce one page, he/she will starve. That's minimum wage. Also, the writers WILL be very demanding. The artists need to be taken care of. Artists notoriously undervalue their talent in my experience.
@@Xodgilla assuming you’re an illustrator, your client for a creator owned book (the niche my channel serves) is someone who has one source of income and is funding their first creative project on the money they could stash away after paying for their home, car, living expenses- etc. finding someone who can pay “above minimum wage” aka afford an artist a full time living is going to be incredibly rare to come by when first starting out. When moving on to a truly professional setting (a book carried by a publisher, or a mainstream Marvel/ DC title) the expectation should definitely change to fairer pay. Early projects need to be navigated carefully at a bit of a partnership for those just starting out
![Making Comics with Graphic Novelist Nate Powell (MARCH, COME AGAIN) | [Indi]android Ep. 18](/img/n.gif)
We're lurking on Twitch! Love your content bud keep killing it!
@@ro_of_gilead thank you sir!!
This type of content is essential for new creators -- budgeting and scheduling are much bigger pitfalls than artistic talent.
@@davecironelibrarykid glad you are enjoying the videos. Thank you for watching!!
Time, sweat and tears!
That being said, I'm an illustrator who's been very keen on making comics but didn't have many storytelling chops, so I teamed up with an author friend of mine to get a graphic novel project done- entirely for free! Since it belongs to both of us, we are trying to publish it together.
That could be another way to get around the cost thing, befriend an artist who is interested in trying their hand at comics, try to make a story with one of their characters. But it has to be a collaboration, they cannot be working for you nor you for them, you have to work together. I understand this might be rare and difficult to do something like this but those are my two cents.
@@MrHazz111 I love hearing that this was an avenue that worked for you both. It’s true this is an area I didn’t event cover. It’s just a rare one. Many go looking for a “collaborator” but I have learned in my own experience that rarely works for a number of reasons, not only that the artist may become unmotivated but because there are so many other hurdles to figure out you as a writer don’t want to leave your collaborator hanging. But super cool you guys accomplished this!
Do you have any advice for someone that has $20K? Would I be able to approach you? Sorry, not approach but, reach out to you?
great explanation. You could do the sequel about how much to expect to recover and what is the publisher's policy regarding payment (during, after, never...) :D
@@federicodallocchio49 something I hope to know from experience eventually.
Here's an issue with the industry. Brand new people that bring zero Return on Investment, expect to make standard rates. Like every job, you need experience to be worth that, just like every job.
I keep hearing writers having to pay for the artists they are working with. Alex Guinness lowered his rate to play Obi Wan and accepted a portion of profits of Star Wars. Artists should be willing to work on a model that is both, a rate and profit share, so that way they may find themselves with a lifetime of revenue, rather than like when Barry Manilow was paid $500 upfront for the State Farm Jingle and ZERO residuals.
Artists are constantly told to ask for top dollar, and guess what, they find themselves with no work, or being people that only do prints at shows. They think they are J Scott Campbell and can request $300-500 for a cover, and their name means nothing.
I'll leave that there, and I wrote a book on what to expect when trying to make comics, and it's available on Amazon.
@@RobPotchak I’ll have to look into this book! To be fair, if someone wants profit sharing my hope is that they would be putting in some sort of value beyond just artwork. I am okay to pay their rate because I know exactly how I want to market my book and so I am okay with a work for hire model because I have figured out a lot of the details that exist on the back half of making a project.
@@creatorowned851 sure, and each model has their advantages. My point was that artists with no name recognition want Marvel pay scale when there is no return on investment and it seems that most writers are left footing the cost on everything ...just because. And I've done both sides of comics, as well as coloring, lettering and editing, and it's always the same. I try to find like-minded people, which means "I want a library of my work out there for folks." I want people to recognize my name, and I want to sell/license a property to become a movie, TV or a video game. When that happens, I even welcome the idea of bringing the artists on as designers so they get credits. But everyone telling artists they should command a rate, but writers should pay for everything is ridiculous. The creator/writer deserves to get paid as well, but that only seems to happen on the back end.
@@RobPotchak yeah I personally feel like there is a lack of appreciation for the fact that writers are just as often totally “on their own” in this world of independent comic creation. To suggest the time and effort a writer invests compared to that put into illustration is an oversimplification just because it is quicker. It definitely is quicker but once you outline, write, rewrite, edit, and so on- eh, not significantly quicker.
If you’re hiring an artist for YOUR idea you have to be willing to take the cut. Not the other way around. A percentage of nothing is NOTHING.
It’s different if your character is Spider-Man and an artist wants the visibility a character like that brings.
Unless you have an audience of a few million and have already published work to a success might a BEGINNER Artist with no name consider working for you at a lower rate for exposure.
Having any artist of talent sit and design YOUR characters and draw YOUR story that no one knows about is not EVER going to be appealing even if you cut them a back end deal.
A back end deal of what? What was your last work? What was your profit margin on that published release? How many people are you reaching daily with your works? Can you offer the artist exposure on a platform you market yourself on?
You need to create a win / win situation and establish rapport. Best way to do that? Pay them what they’re valued at.
Creating for a Hollywood deal is a pipe dream. You have to work doubly hard to get their attention and you have to adapt for whatever medium which again takes time and money. Be realistic and grounded in your approach and start small.
You look handsome
Good breakdown. A good professional looking comic would run for 150-200 for lineart and 60- 80 for color. 15-20 for letters. Per page.
Covers should be 350 and up: the sky’s the limit. Consider the time you’re investing per page.
This is a conservative estimate.
Don’t throw away your health and family time working for peanuts, you’ll end up regretting it.
@@dymaraway4651 it’s a broad spectrum for sure. I have another video “how to make money” that gives advice on re-monetizing your artwork outside of just the page rate!
At 11:22 when you talk about costs such as printing, distribution, marketing, etc….would a publisher (like Image or Dark Horse) take on some of those costs?
PS: just found your channel -!: J love the videos, I’ve binged about 5+ in a row!!
@@vellamattfilms from what I’ve heard you pay the publishing fee through Image, not sure how it works with smaller publishers
@@vellamattfilms also thank you for watching, much appreciated!
@@creatorowned851 interesting. Thanks!
Just finished my first comic book project that i wrote. It was successfully funded on Kickstarter, but wow what a learning experience. I kept it to 16 pages of art to keep the cost down.
@@BrianLCS that’s amazing! It’s not easy even for something as modest as this 16 pages. Congratulations
If it takes the artist a full work day to produce one page, he/she will starve. That's minimum wage.
Also, the writers WILL be very demanding. The artists need to be taken care of.
Artists notoriously undervalue their talent in my experience.
@@Xodgilla assuming you’re an illustrator, your client for a creator owned book (the niche my channel serves) is someone who has one source of income and is funding their first creative project on the money they could stash away after paying for their home, car, living expenses- etc. finding someone who can pay “above minimum wage” aka afford an artist a full time living is going to be incredibly rare to come by when first starting out. When moving on to a truly professional setting (a book carried by a publisher, or a mainstream Marvel/ DC title) the expectation should definitely change to fairer pay. Early projects need to be navigated carefully at a bit of a partnership for those just starting out