Watching this video you might get the impression that EVs are a fad that is fading quickly. The truth is global EV sales have been growing consistently every year for the last ten years at a rate of 20 to 35%. Conversely internal combustion engine vehicle sales peaked in 2017. If you want to get an idea of where EV sales are headed just lookup the price of lithium ion batteries over time.
Electrification is killing the industry like diesel killed trains.. You're either on the bus, or off it (like Toyota, Nokia also wasn't too big to die from the wrong decisions) and buses are also not stream powered.
given the ridiculous wealth and income inequality in the US (one of the worst of the industrial nations) and one of the worst capabilties of social mobility i sure as hell wonder everyday the amount of absurdly expensive cars driving around. The vast majority of people incur debts because they wanna flex their not existing wealth. And those automakers play that game with a passion, as they all have banks themselfs where you can lease and finance your fancy new car.
@@wackrapsatire yep, it's interesting how the human psyche work. If you have nothing you want to show that you have a lot and this is a perfect example.
BMW started it with fake exhaust sounds aka "Active Sound Design" on an actual M5 over a decade ago because the turbo-V8 didn't sound as good as the NA V10 it replaced
@@j.f.christ8421Why? Because they'd rather not drive what amounts to a golf cart and, if they have to, they'd rather it be somewhat entertaining? Truth be told, they'd rather have a gearbox, but they'll take what they can get.
Small EVs make total sense. Commuting, school run, local trips.. hugely expensive luxury 2.5 ton SUVs that are expensive to run, have massive depreciation and can only be purchased by most with massive subsidies and bank loans, seems absurd.(edit obviously I mean electric or fuel based SUVs)
EVs make sense in cities where you aren't going too far, I don't think they really make sense even if you are commuting from the suburbs TO the cities. But really the key thing is "does your increased electricity bill cost more than your gas bill" In places like California our gas taxes are insane so its pretty expensive, but we also have rolling brownouts throughout the state as even now we cannot produce the electricity we need, yet a couple years ago our governor signed into law that you cannot buy gas powered cars after 2030 with no plan to produce the electricity that would be required for everyone to be running EVs. I think that a LOT of the EV push is about the feels and for "pro-environmental" political points without the needed thinking & infrastructure to back it all up.
They don't make sense for anyone who has to travel longer distances, or who can't reliably park next to a charger overnight. You do realize a lot of people have to park their cars on the street or in basement parking garages under apartment blocks right? Also, if you think the depreciation on SUVs is bad, wait until you see how bad it is for an EV. No one wants to risk buying something that's on the cusp of needing a battery replacement that will cost as much or more than the car cost them.
@@Graven-Ash even here where gas is cheap there is no comparison in electricity bill versus gas bill. Electricity is cheaper by several miles. I've had a plug-in hybrid for about 6 months now that charges every night, and the difference in electricity bill is so small I didn't even notice it. Obviously a full EV is going to have a bigger affect, but we are talking a fraction of the price of gas. The only downsides to EVs right now are the upfront costs, and the complicated long distance driving.
No, the lack of attention/foresight is killing the car industry lol. I’ve recently been thrusted back into the market and I’ve been blown away by how unimpressive new cars are, despite the astronomical price tags. Cheap materials, random noises/rattles, and horrid interior designs - pretty much across the board. I’m not paying $60k for poorly-airbrushed “wood grain” plastic or touch-screen infotainment systems with latency like a 2005 Amazon Kindle.
@AS-np3yq find a time machine and go back to the sixties. Computers in cars are just too practical to get left out again. Even the cheapst smallest IC-engine car nowadays has one. I doubt you will find any non-oldtimer without at least several computerized components.
I was in the same situation in October. My last car was a 2008 Infiniti ex35 and I loved her. But she died to rust. Since I buy and don’t lease I wanted something that needs to last. I was incredibly unimpressed with what is coming down the pipe in 2025 onwards. Small stressed engines with turbos and or hybrids. Not. A. Chance. So. Ended up with a 2024 Toyota 4Runner. “Ancient” tech and a rock solid naturaly aspirated engine and a simple 5 speed trans it’s amazing. I love it and I smile everything I get in the truck. The new stuff is garbage.
Is it even possible to get an electric car with a classic tactical button dashboard? As recent as 15 years ago, tablet screens in view of the driver were illegal (where I live); this needs to be a widespread restriction imho
The income from the export of oil and gas goes into the sovereign wealth fund which isn’t allowed to spend money in Norway. All investments take place abroad. So our dear Patrick was wrong there.
Its more down to ICE cars have a 100% tax originally, and that EV's could then get 0% tax. So there is just a tax loss for the government - the money lost by the government is still in the economy (in peoples wallets). But the fact that people were accustomed to 100% tax made this possible (and the fact that Norway doesn't have an auto-industry).
Its nice that me not young broke norwegen driving my 2002 civic pay ekstra and otheres driving there brand new tycans pay less and also get more help to buy the car than my car is worth
@@RanEncounter who cares what he claimed, guessed, or stipulated. It shouldn't take away from what they've actually done, which is a better historical record to base the future on anyways
And that just happens to be nearly every manufacturer that sells in the USA. Other countries get cheap EVs because they don't have an EPA that effectively outlawed small cars (and that's tragically ironic considering the purpose of the EPA).
Yeah, we're so stupid why don't we get rid of environmental regulations and put our prison population to work on the plantations like we used to and China does currently.. 🙄
I live in China and 55% of the market are EVs or PHEVs. The difference vs USA is the cars are CHEAP and every model is offered as EV or PHEV in same price. Plus the EREVs which are long range PHEVs and this category dont even exist outside of China. Basically China is 10 years ahead in car market:)
which is just an extension of the normal auto industry chicanery of the last 25 years (looks at OEM Bosch parts made in the same factory to the exact same spec and different only from "genuine" by lacking a BMW imprint and part number and an extra digit in the price)
The problem with EVs if they don't solve the problem they pretend to solve. They are not anymore environmentally friendly than a standard ICE vehicle, and are likely worse. They APPEAR they do because with subsidies they appear to be cheaper to maintain, own, and use - but that's because of subsidies. It distorts the market. The energy used to charge them, they are from diesel, natural gas, and other fossil fuels for the most part. Power plants produce the same emissions as an ICE does. Transmission lines have losses, charging a battery has losses, mining the materials to make the vehicle has tremendous energy expenditures. Somebody pointed out if we lived in a different reality - how would you feel if all cars were electric, and suddenly a new vehicle showed up on the scene that could be powered by this thing called "gasoline"? It would take you 1.5 minutes to "recharge", it produced CO2 and water when being used and it had 5x the range? I think we should have built infrastructure for LPG cars, that's just natural gas made into a liquid due to compression - they burn very cleanly, they have a reduced range, but the car can still use gasoline as a backup. We have TONS of natural gas, most of your electricity is produced by it. Cut out the middle man..
@@fuzzywzhe After 200 000 miles, the average ICE car will emit on average 85-90 tons of CO2. An electric vehicule will emit 35 tons with high pollution grid. This includes car production, fuel or electricity generation. ICE cars doesn't have much room for improvement, EV have with recycling, green grid and tech improvements. The best way to move around stays walking, cycling and public transports.
@@onis86 What does the power plant producing electricity produce in CO2 for an EV? HOW do you know? You're giving me numbers and figures, I need data and I'm in this field, so I suspect your data is incorrect. You KNOW we can't talk here. If I try to educate you on this technology, my comments stop showing up. It's HOPELESS to try to educate people here. You may not even see this.
Across the board, car prices have gone into the stratosphere - even a modest car is pushing $30K (CAD), a base EV starts close to $60K - an average salary is $50-60K - how the heck does anyone afford anything in this climate?
Buying a new car is actually pretty weird, most new cars are leases and people buy used cars. This leads to large luxury sales as the old cars occupy the cheap car niche. When selling a cheap car you have to compete against old luxury cars, so you have to include expensive features, which puts a floor on the price And when trying to make middle sector cars you hit the real jag problem. You can make the best car in the world but no one will buy it if it has the wrong badge. If you want to have the right badge you need to do cool stuff. A car company that makes affordable cars for grannies is not cool. My theory is this market might just be a result of low interest rates. The lower interest cost means lower lease payments, which mean more expensive cars are leased which trickles down.
@ That’s definitely not my experience of the marketplace for cars. While leasebacks aren’t unusual, and do create a degree of pricing pressure, I don’t think that drives the majority of people’s decision making around car purchases. The piece that I think you missed is that even a relatively pedestrian model like a Honda Civic is going for $30K these days - and short of a decade-long loan, that’s way beyond the means of people who earn average salaries. It’s not that long ago that most makes had one or two models that I would describe as “aspirational” vehicles. A little bit high on the price point, but still accessible if you wanted to stretch a bit, and a whole bunch of more mundane models that were still perfectly good and the prices were in line with what people earned. It worked pretty well - and yes, there were still “high end” vehicles out there which weren’t driving the “used market” by any stretch of the imagination.
@@mgs337 to be clear I agree completely with your comment. There is a common belief that peak car quality was 2015 (incidentally when top gear ended) That was my belief on how the market got that way Part of the issue is its really hard to make a modern car that you could sell for less than 30k, we have such massive requirements on safety, expectations on speed etc, that you end up expensive. And if you want an ev you got to pay for a battery either way. Realistically cars are going to keep growing until safety regulation focus on what a car does to others rather than the inhabitants. I remember the first time first time working on a theoretical vehicle, you’d have standard cases that the vehicles need to cover, but all of them went straight out the window cause all that matters is meeting top speed, 0-60 time and gradient capability targets. You’d see side by side with exactly what a consumer needs, and just how massively over specced every car was. I alway try convince family to buy as small an ev as possible, young friends in the sector are the same. People just don’t want to, a tiny little car is just not aspirational. Customers buy cars based upon feeling.
Who could have predicted, (I) price gouging during a cost of living crises and (II) refusing to make the cars your customers want; would have bad results?!?
@@operator8014They are allowed, but it makes far more economic sense to refuse to make those cars because of the emissions regulation exemptions granted to trucks/SUVs, but not sedans, and how that eats into their margins. Europe has the exact same kind of regulations, but without the carve-outs for SUVs/trucks, and their automotive market looks much healthier because giant cars aren’t artificially made more profitable.
@Jerdifier Good try. Wrong. The CAFE requirements state that for the 2024 MY, a vehicle with the utility and footprint of a Ford Fiesta, it is required to get a minimum of 90MPG combined. Pickups and SUVs are still being made and sold and they're HUGE, because at their footprint and with their utility, they are only required to hit 26MPG combined. It is NOT allowed. Thank you Democrats, thank you SO MUCH. 👌👌👌
@@operator8014 you said literally not allowed which is wrong. They are allowed to manufacture new sedans, those sedans are just required to meet obscene efficency requirements which make their creation impossible in practice. There is no law which says such cars cannot be built, just a lot of very good reasons not to bother.
I work as a millwright in a GM plant that has recently transitioned to making EV’s and batteries. It doesn’t require a totally different work force to do so.
True, correct 👍both retooling and retraining can be done successfully within an existing plant. It's actually more efficient to do that than it is to build a new facility and staff it with brand new labor.
The legacy OEM can’t make money and big oil is worried about losing government subsidies…. This drives them to spread fear uncertainty and doubt related to EVs. EVs are undoubtedly the future of transport regardless.
@@KsazDFW driving an EV myself I believe this to be true. It’s a newer technology and already drives better than gas engines. Once a couple things improve like battery longevity the technology will be undeniably better.
Patrick, you missed an opportunity to say that Dyson and Jaguar are both in the sucking business now, but I'm not a comedian or a wrapper so I don't know about how to present these things.
As skilled of a comedian/Rapper mr. Boyle is that would be easy pickings. He doesn't seem to stoop to such low brow humour one of the main reasons he is the comedic genius he is.
@@FatherOBlivion To be precise, this is a non-market behavior. It is a purely political behavior. Europe tried to promote electric vehicles 20 years ago, and every car brand failed. So Europe quickly gave up on electric vehicles. Electric vehicles were put on the mandatory agenda again because of the gimmick of environmental protection and new energy. Because this is against market behavior, a large amount of subsidies were used to allow electric vehicles to enter the market. The results were all the opposite.
@@GeometryEX-hp9zs Europe found themselves an excuse to be able to compete with Toyota plus they get to stand on the moral high ground but they end up shoot themselves in the foot that now they need to compete with a more aggressive China. At least Japan has better worker protection and higher wages, so it's a fair battle on who's creating a better brand. If you want to compete with China, the only effective way is also provide non existence worker protection, lower wages and lower social welfare to be competitive in product's price, a race to the bottom. But are European willing to do any of these at all?
I think there's a major road block to EV adoption that is ignored in most of these discussions. Over 1/3 of people in the us rent. It isnt feesable to charge your vehicle v when you live in an apartment, and can't upgrade or install an outlet in a house that you dont own. While super chargers are becoming more common, they lower the life of the battery if constantly used, and gas stations are obviously many times more abundant. Renters have no good path to going electric.
Every street lamp is connected to the grid. Why is it so hard for people to see it coming that cars can be charged everywhere. I live in a rental apartment, I have an EV, there are many AC chargers around my neighborhood(yes, they use the same grid as those street lights, its magical). Its really no drama unless walking 2minutes is the end of the world for you. If the country you live in doesnt bother to build public chargers than that problem is the country you live in, not EVs
It is not just the rental market. I live in a big apartment building with a big parking garage for residents in the basement. You can't charge your car there. There are now plans to install a network of high voltage wires such that everyone who wants can install their own charger on that grid. But this costs everyone with a parking place there a few hundred dollar, so it isn't guaranteed the majority will agree to do so.
The problem in the US, and increasingly the EU, is with the size of cars. Here in Japan tiny low-cost hybrids are everywhere, and while pure EV sales are slow because of a lack charging infrastructure, they are coming. The difference is that people here aren't sacrificing size because land arks are impractical and dangerous (although a fair number of assholes insist on buying them). Back in the US you need to tower over the road in your Mad Max machine or risk being run over. Small hybrids and EVs are proven technology, but nobody can make an affordable 2,000kg vehicle. This is a direct result of the truck exemption from fuel efficiency back in 1975.
I just want to continue to drive a manual transmission truck that weigh under a ton. They are getting impossible to find, the laws need to change. I shouldn't have to import a truck to get a small form factor fuel efficient truck, my current ford ranger truck is at 180k miles, and I hope to make it last as many more years as a I can.
I can't believe that a law that devastated the US automotive landscape didn't change since 1975. And that still hasn't changed after the Paris agreement and the new climate change regulations. Why?
They put huge tarifs in the EU, If they do not doit the german automakers will already be in a bankrrupcy, and probably the goverment too. Germany is cutting about 10,000 car related jobs per month as od Dec 2024.
Look electric is fine, but they still need to be practical. And all cars suffer from the designers being overly in love with being futuristic. My sister just bought a new car - that isn’t even electric, it just electrified the dashboard - there are no buttons or knobs to control anything just a giant touch screen. Tell me how you’re supposed to turn the defroster on without taking your eyes off the road if turning it on requires navigating through digital menus on a touchscreen? 🤦🏼♀️
@@gsogymrat "Defroster on! Btw, start the oven in the apartement, too!" Car: "I am sorry, gsogy-baby-love. I can´t do that." gsogymrat: "What you mean??? Jesus, the treeline comes awfully close!"
Here here..👍 touch screens have a reasonable use case in GPS navigation where the destination is set before driving. Using touch screens to control car functions while driving is downright dangerous. This brings the Australian law of savagely fining mobile phone use while driving but turning a blind eye to installed vehicle touch screen use while on the road..🤔
Yes, and: "..which no longer seems to be the case." From my perspective, it never seemed to be the case to begin with, and that made the propaganda look nefarious.
They don't even have the infrastructure to handle a transition to 50% EVs. This doesn't even account for the AI computing facilities they want to build and that can eat up the electricity of a small city...
The funny thing about the market's top sellers being trucks and SUVs is that when looking for a new car, that is 99% of what you can find. They stopped making small (cheap) cars and made everything so damned expensive that I'm just going to keep babying my 15 year old car until they start making anything I actually *want* to drive again... Electrification being rushed isn't great, but the auto industry repeatedly reducing the range and choice you can have in their products is why China's starting to eat their lunch....
You can thank Obama for effectively banning small cars when they put out the new emissions standards based upon wheelbase and made small cars very difficult to achieve those numbers and they were usually the lowest margin vehicles. Trump and Biden haven't changed this issue either so they don't plan to fix it.
I hate trucks and SUVs but they are popular with people. I don't think it is a good financial to take out a car loan just to buy a vehicle larger than you need, but lots of people disagree with me. Yeah the auto industry pushes them but a lot of it is consumers demanding them too.
In Sweden EVs have been preferentially treated because of pollution, not climate change. The government tried to impose a "gas car free zone" in the middle of Stockholm. They had to back away from that though because it imposed such a big burden on companies in the area. I think it's pretty stupid because nobody drives there anyways unless they have to, and this just means gas cars and hybrids have to drive around. What made my mom spring for a hybrid and now maybe full EV is free charging in her garage. If all garages in Stockholm had an outlet by every parking space that would probably do a heckuva lot more for EV sales. Now I don't know what to think about EVs. As you said, if driving is cheap nobody takes the train. I used to travel five hours by car a lot because it was much cheaper for me than taking the train. What we really need are better and less expensive trains that actually work.
Here again for some reason, in the US, rail costs 10X more than building highways. That’s insane. Who’s going to finance that? Our government spends way too much time giving all our tax money away instead actually using it for the “common good”
Another thing to add on the rapid adoption of EVs in Norway is that Norway has historically been a very electrified country due to its great abundance of hydro energy. The fact that most of the country runs purely on electricity made the adoption a lot smoother
What do you mean by Norway being 'very electrified'? Hydro power is great, but plenty of countries have electricity and renewable grids (like Iceland or Canada) without such high EV adoption. Norway isn't special-they just prioritized EV incentives and infrastructure, like charging stations, while making ICE cars way more expensive. That’s what drove the transition.
Indeed - Norway is unique in the combination of factors at play. It’s in no way a useful model that the vast majority of other countries could follow. Ironically it’s an excellent example of how many exceptional conditions are required, rather than how easy it is to succeed in an EV transition.
Because Norway are small country with Population only 5,56 million people. Compare to 335 million people in US. It just the number of illegal imigran here.
@@MadeInChinaPlat Having owned a few new vehicles myself I no longer will buy another one until I'm prepared to put at least 50% down. New car/truck prices are stupidly expensive compared to just 12 years ago. That said, we do plan on adding a Tesla Y to our fleet after the next gen comes out this year.
in 2024 I made several business trips to Norway and rented an EV every time. The infrastructure was amazing. But then I come back to the UK where I wouldn't even consider buying an EV.
I drive a 2005 Toyota Corolla I got in a "get my son's first car out of my freaking driveway" sale for $400 and a plate of cookies. It gets me to and from work, and every once in a while it gets me up to the city. I probably won't upgrade to EVs until I can buy an old EV shitbox for a thousand dollars or less. I wonder if we'll ever see that day.
2012 Nissan leaf? You can get them for a grand. Or one of the many rebrands that's the iMEV. These have too poor of a range for anything other than commuting and regional travel though.
@@pmscalisi It's a good spot for short ranged evs. Anything that's aproaching 300 miles in range or even 200 is probably enough for most people for most tasks.
I live in rural Northern Ontario, Canada, where there is both huge distances to cover by car and absolutely freezing winter temperatures. Journeys in the low hundreds of kilometres are not uncommon. The only people up here with EV's are rich people who think electric cars are cool and have other vehicles when they actually want to drive somewhere. For the vast majority of people up here, getting an EV is simply not feasible at all. The technology would have to improve by leaps and bounds and become much more affordable for the average person around here to seriously consider one.
I live in a luxury gated community of condos in Brooklyn NY. The management said they can install chargers for like $1500 if you want one. I haven't seen a single charger in the garage. We have Rolls Royces and Lambos. Nobody wants an electric car here in a city that you would never need to travel more than the 200 miles or so of range. If these condos were in San Fransico or Los Angeles, a bunch of assholes that convince themselves they are saving the world would have these charging stations installed.
Fortunately a tiny fraction of Canadian car buyers live up there. Just get out of the way while everyone who drives less than 100 miles a day and has access to a plug at home or work buys an EV.
I find these multiple major miscalculations of governments, environmentalists, and the auto industry absolutely hilarious. Used to be 'let the buyer beware'. This has now been turned on its head by the buyers, or rather non-buyers. Power to the people. I will buy neither the EVs or the bullshit surrounding them. But thanks for the laughs. Really brightened my day.
With declining quality, new features that are either useless or behind a monthly subscription, and forever fatter vehicles killing the small car segment, I am convinced that the auto industry is killing the auto industry.
I agree this is terrible, but much of it is from consumer demand and trends. People love buying SUVs for some reason. They don't mind perpetual month subscriptions either. I don't get it, but I guess I'm old.
@@username7763 WRONG Because people are old and unfit is why people like SUVs. It's because of the Ride Height and seating position. The industry term for it's Hip Point for the ratio of hip seating position to floor relative to roof height. I'm only middle aged and my left hip has issues. You are the target market.
@@ireminmon Nope that is a misinformation meme. It's poor health and ergonomics is why people like CUVs. CUVs are NOT part of the regulation loop hole.
@@Neojhun SUV's and Trucks avoid the burden of mandated fuel economy and emissions targets. SUV's were introduced to the market as a way around those, first and foremost. While I do agree that the likes of your hip and my knees make them a good choice for many, that's not the reason that they were thrust upon us at all. If automakers gave a care about us, we would have had SUV's when our soldiers returned home after the great war. But we didn't.
8:30 you cant talk about northern europes ev adoption rates without referencing the massive hydroelectric dam infrastructure, which is the only real renewable energy venture
@@hardtailhardtrails One affordable housing development by people I work with was required to put in two charging stations. One of them is broken and the other is permanently used by the same tenant. They are very expensive and a lot of work to regulate as the commons.
Cleaner air and less polluted water tables. But you're right, nothing beets WFH to reduce congestion while allowing them better use of their free time vs.being stuck in a car/bus/train.
Kinda missed the projection that more than 50% of car sales in China will be EVs this year. Considering that the majority of legacy autos profits come from China, legacy autos are dead in the water
I was a hoping that you would mention other countries, I feel like Chinese EVs will eat European and American cars for breakfast in developing countries that don't have loyalties to a particular brand, as long as the Chinese are willing to put the charging infrastructure
China does not seem to be having trouble producing low cost high value EVs. I kind of think it's some sort of political resistance that's causing the problem.
@@stanleytolle416 It was massive government funding. That’s why so many little Chinese car startups boomed a few years ago. Most of those companies died.
@@chrissmith3587 The fact is that more than 70% of Chinese car owners still choose fuel or hybrid cars as their means of transportation. Less than 10% choose electric cars because of subsidies. Another 5% or so of electric cars are forced to be replaced by companies due to political push.
In Europe they will gain a significant market but European automakers will continue to exist,just like how the Japanese never won over them, in the USA they will never be allowed, more concerning is not the Chinese winning over the European market but the Chinese in china not buying European cars especially German autos
I go to work in a 2001 Lancia Ypsilon paid €1500 15 years ago. Who in their sane mind would think that when it breaks beyond repair I'll replace it with a €30k Tesla?
Cars are stupid now. You can go out and buy a 90k (CAD) Jeep Wagoneer and you know what? It's trash, just the whole thing. Unreliable, bad build quality, squeaks and rattles--all sorts of stuff you'd never expect on a new car. Stellantis is the worst but far from the only offender, and that's just regular old ICE cars. Add EV bullshit on top and ew, no thank you. Bad enough that ICE cars have a million computers and extremely complex parts assemblies that are horribly expensive to replace--let's have MORE computers and MORE software! I want a car that doesn't work right in the cold, can't tow, and one day just might not want to take a charge (just like so many other lithium-ion devices today) because ???? Get out the multimeter, hooray! Fuck that noise. Gonna keep my old dirty van with its stupid simple V8 engine and cheap parts, thanks.
Your stupid simple V8 engine burning through literally tons of dirty fossil fuel is nothing to be proud of. EV batteries are nothing like "other lithium-ion devices", EVs monitor and manage the temperature and state of charge of the cells.
Watch Munro's video on Rivian. The industry is evolving from tons of little computer boxes and miles of wiring to simplicity and lower cost. EVs are a better situation for more and more people as the tech evolves.
I do love your videos Patrick however battery prices for EV's have been dropping massively and this trend is expected to contine. The price of EV's are already approaching parity with ICE vehicles and so that will only continue improving so expect EV's to be cheaper to buy than their equivilent ICE vehicles within the next 18 months. Quite soon there will be no need for EV rebates to exist but what nobody talks about is the Government Health impacts of having more zero emission vehicles. You can expect ,massive health improvements, cleaner air & lower reliance on middle eastern oil.
It all seems like a very convenient excuse for severe and extreme incompetence throughout the entire management chain of all these car manufacturers. As a car enthusiast, I'm not looking at any new car for the foreseeable future, regardless if its EV or not. 2018-2020 was peak era of quality. Physical tactile buttons please, it's not much to ask.
I think the early 2000s are the sweet spot. The cars are reliable enough for 200k+ miles (mines currently at 210k), much less complicated to fix, and have a lot less electronics to break.
About 40% of Americans live in apartments, not houses. How are they going to charge their EVs? Drop an extension cord out the window? The cost of installing EV charging points across all the apartment parking lots in America would be astronomical.
If they can't charge at home or work, they will opportunistically charge while they're out and about doing other things. It's not the end of the world.
First we get the 60%. That will take some years. There are options for the others, and they're not impossible and certainly not a reason for giving up. Other places have chargers attached to street lights.
I am sure your number is wrong by a large margin. Maybe 40% rent, but a lot of those rentals are single-family houses. I think it's more like 15% live in apartments, depending on how you define an apartment.
Yeah the whole debate is disconnected from the reality that most people buy used. Compounded by the fact that the general public has an uncertainty about the longevity of EVs. But in fact that uncertainty is what is making the used EV market so cheap. Because the demand is so low. My conspiracy theory is that it's the auto makers pushing the Longevity propaganda to push people upwards to a new car sale...
Yes, exactly right 👍 I own 4 reliable vehicles all of which I purchased used and paid cash. I haven't had a car loan in over 23 years and I've both bought and sold several vehicles during that time. It's very feasible to buy used automobiles without financing as long as you're not status shopping.
@@SquintyGearsthe longevity conspiracy is actually caused by the chemistry industry adhering to reality where chemical reactions change over repeat use.
I don't think EV'S are killing the auto industry, i think the general economy and the fact money is more worthless than it's ever been is what's killing the auto industry. Basically the gap in income between the richest and the poorest people is what's killing it.
It's hard to determine if EV's are killing the automobile industry since the industry is doing a great job of killing itself in issues not related to EV's like German auto brands conspiring together to halt progress and price reductions and the whole industry's migration to design for obsoletion direction. And lastly, just designing out any excitement, marketing cars that don't excite anyone and that people plain don't want.
that's a common misconception, but the reality is that, while price spikes make for very click-baity headlines, the spikes were in fact were extremely short lived, and there was spare capacity on the German electricity grid even at the highest price. The price spikes were so short-lived that the alternative, firing up some gas-powered power stations for a short term, was just not financially viable. Over the coarse of a year, a nuclear power station would not have been economically viable based upon last year's market prices, and you'd get a better ROI from investing in battery power than in nuclear power.. But of course battery power isn't as sexy as nuclear power (in some people's eyes), so even though nuclear power is more expensive, it must be done.
@michaelkoelbl4004 I mean, I'm not upset about not building new ones but about closing the ones that were built and then importing electricity from France made by...
@@michaelkoelbl4004 nuclear power is cheapest if you already have nuclear power plant. Germany shut down nuclear power plant as policy, to please people with irrational fears, they just deducted it as a big loss and thats it. While France meanwhile uses 50 percent+ nuclear power and so on. Nuclear energy is safe when done correctly. Irrational fear are based on fear of radiation and cancer, but cancer in normal people lives usually is related to smoking, drinking etc. Its much much bigger factor... NPP doesn't pollute territory nearby, all waste is safely stored in proper place.
@@santostv. the UK has half the oil production of Norway while having ten times as many people. They could infact not have had a national wealth fund like Norway.
A third of the world's cars are made in China and they seem to be doing just fine with increased EV sales. The title should be "Can Western auto manufacturers remain competitive?"
I’d say it’s the fact you can’t buy a simple pickup truck for less than $55k these days. They are selling cheap little suv/crossovers for $35k. It’s insane. Who the fuck can afford this shit anymore?
Comparing battery cost to just engine cost is a disingenuous comparison. You need to compare total powertrain cost for ICE (engine, transmission, exhaust, fuel tank, etc.) to EV (battery, e-motor, charger, etc.)
My ICE car is 12 years old and stills looks and drives great. A 12 year old EV is worth nothing because a new battery costs more than the value of the 12 year old EV with the new battery. What happens when only EVs are being built and all of them become junk when the battery ages out?
@@user-Jamie218 LIES you LIAR! You can just replace a single module of an EV Battery. While the cost of a Hyundai Theta II engine replacement $13,000 if you are lucky and not scammed. EV power trains are soo much easier to work on and require less hours thus cheaper labor cost. A battery repair is mostly likely only required at 10 to 17 years old.
@@chrisc8156 LOL Stop with the misinformation. you do realize many 12 year old 85kwh BEVs currently exist, it's the later Revision C Battery Tesla Model S. Majority of still work perfectly fine with under 20% degradation. Due to majority of the pack still working fine, when the battery pack ages out around 17 years. It will need REPAIRS and replace individual modules. That is much cheaper and not the value of a 12 year old EV. Your silly misinformation comment is just rhetorical question and assertions based on Wilful Ignorance. You have no clue what you are talking about.
@@user-Jamie218 LIES! A Hyundai Theta II engine replacement is $13,000 if you are luck and not scammed. Problematic engines like this need a whole engine replacement, not just a repair fix. Most EV batteries can be REPAIRED or at most replace individual modules. Nothing close to $20,000 in repair cost and much less labor cost than Major ICE and transmission work. "once it’s degraded too much" Nope that is not happening according to real world data. Even old Tesla Model S with 200,000 miles plus are no where near failed battery and only about 20% capacity degradation. When the battery pack does fail and is down to 65% capacity, majority of failed batteries can be REPAIRED. That 35% degradation is due to a failed module blocking flow to other parts of the battery. Once that failed module is repaired it could easily be back to 80% of the capacity. You misinformation is just ignorant rumors.
Here in parts of Australia we are about to import LNG for domestic use despite being a massive exporter because of the lack of a national reservation policy. 15 years ago there was a short-lived subsidy to convert petrol cars to LPG and sell dedicated LPG new cars (when we had local auto production) to utilise that domestic production. LPG emits ~20% less carbon per km (even after factoring in its lower energy density and worse economy). Lobbying from the resources industry led to the utterly stupid export focused place we are today, paying to double ship LNG around the world rather than use our own.
Tier 2 manufacturers are also receiving US subsidies. I work for a big one that shall not be named. We have received multiple grants from the department of energy worth millions for EV development. We don’t need it. Let the market be free and let those that can’t swim drown as is done in most other free market enterprises. We need to stop paying for rich people’s hobbies and toys. I can easily get a job back on defense where I started if my job goes away.
11:20 VW had the same issue when they introduced their ID.3. They ended up buying their own cars to avoid a bill from the EU, and sold them as demo cars at a discount.
I don't think there's a lot of trust in VW at the moment after dieselgate. As a car the ID.3 itself is not that interesting either. I do have some faith in their platform but just making different sizes of jellybeans isn't exactly setting the world on fire.
Just went back to LA for the first time in 15 years, for better or worse, everything looks and functions pretty much exactly the same. I do believe all it takes is a few more year for the US consumers to suddenly discover that the rest of the world are driving EVs with thousand-mile range, practical futuristic features, and cost about 1/2 of the same car they're driving 10 years ago.
I love how factual your reporting is, Patrick. Just a straight infodump and in 25 minutes we get a very good picture of the momentum in the entire industry.
Not to mention that here in the US some of the most supportive state governments aren't putting any investment in the production of electricity itself, which continues to go up in cost. Cart before horse problem.
@@davecolgan442 in time they would/will in the short term lots of utilities companies are trying to do that and it drives up the price of the required materials considerably and they are being hit with strict green regulations in power production too. Patrick made a great video about increasing grid capacity and the challenges associated some time ago if i remember correctly.
Regulated utilities and private companies build electrical generation and transmission. And they are spending a lot, mostly on wind and solar and now battery storage as well because they're cheap and quick. U.S. Energy Information Administration: "Annual spending by major utilities to produce and deliver electricity increased 12% from $287 billion in 2003 to $320 billion in 2023 as measured in real 2023 dollars". It needs to be even more to meet the growth in demand from electrification. We'll use a lot less primary energy overall because electricity is more efficient than burning fossil fuels, but we'll need a lot of electricity.
China and most of the world that does not produce oil or oil products is going to go to EV's much sooner than the ICE car makers want. Having to import oil is a national security issue and a major economic drain on these countries. Look at Australia with it not having much oil or an ICE auto industry. Not importing oil will lessen their dependence on the oil producing countries of the world. Their conversion to solar, wind, and battery storage makes EV's a good fit. The Chinese are producing the solar panels, wind turbines, and batteries that any country with similar desires can go to get the equipment they need. Even Tesla builds a large part of their export cars and battery systems in China. It will take time, but like the railroads that converted from coal-steam to diesel-electric locomotives, it will happen.
Drove my first electric car over the holidays when my buddy visited from Montana and was forced to rent a Kia Ionic. He could hardly find a good thing to say about it but for my driving situation I'd take that thing any day of the week.
If changing over to EV from ICE was a minor inconvenience than it would be happening. I drive ICE because I want to save the planet. EVs or RCEs (Remote Combustion Engines) do the opposite.
You're deluded. Do the math to realize that a 35 mpg gasser will burn through _10 tons_ of dirty gasoline over 120,000 miles. Every recent study concludes that a comparable far more efficient EV (many travel well over 100 miles on the energy in a gallon of gasoline) recharged from the current grid mix has much lower lifetime emissions.
@@skierpage And what becomes of the EV batteries when they expire? There is currently no method in place to remedy this problem. You also fail to mention that EVs are considerably heavier than ICE vehicles resulting in greater wear and tear on the tires, which have to be replaced more frequently. This will require an increase in tire production which is a petroleum-based product.
One of the problems with a ev tax credit is that some of the manufacturers take that credit amount and just add it to the sticker price. It might better to disincent the ICE cars.
That is happening in the UK. It is failing badly look up a UA-cam channel by Barrie Crampton. Basically dealers are having to pretend to sell new EV cars to push up sales numbers and are actually delaying sales of real cars to avoid this £15,000 fine per vehicle. They then try to sell the used EV with less than a hundred miles on it some of these machines were registered 18 months ago and still haven't sold to an actual buyer.
@@Fred-gu6pk LOL Barrie Crampton is a wacko propagandist. Everything he says is just cherry picked out of context numbers to spread a fabricated story. "registered 18 months ago" that was during the chip crisis when demand for cars far outstripped supply. Your silly story is not plausible it's just fabricated nonsense.
@@Fred-gu6pk EVs ARE real cars. Trump is talking about giving the incentives to manufacturers instead of consumers. If I have a choice of either power train, same price, the EV is the clear winner.
One of the most important aspects of manufacturing is economies of scale which means the higher the volume, the lower the cost per unit. This is why Tesla makes a ton of money on every EV it sells but the other automakers, which produce EVs at a far lower volume lose a ton of money on every EV sold. As such, legacy auto manufacturers have a chicken-or-egg issue when it comes to making EVs. The more people will buy EVs, the cheaper it will be to produce them.
While Tesla does have scale, what makes Tesla profitable is selling carbon credits and licensing their supercharger network - otherwise, they would be in the red.
@kevinledgister5252 That is not correct. Through 3Q2024 last year those credits only made up 43% of Tesla's net income. In other words, it would be in the black even without them.
the problem is, eu automakers wanted to step from gasoline to EV, the smarter step was the toyota way, gasoline-hev-ev its more natural for the industry and also for consumers
Yeah what Toyota did was the smartest thing they could have done giving a variety of options out there and seeing what was going to sell the most. I remember all the comments of people saying how Toyota was gonna go out of business if they don’t go full electric and yet here they still sell plenty without the whole electric lineup. you got a lot of delusional people thinking that every single square inch of this country is going to be easy with just an electric transition.
So Tesla Model Y is 4th best selling car in US in 2024. Not bad at all Will have 2nd spot in China. Has spot in top 5 in EU. And was best selling car in the world last year.
I wanted to buy a used model s cash. I called my insurance company and they told me the insurance would cost close to 8x what my normal insurance would. Clearly I didn’t buy.
As an Electrical Engineer, it is blatantly obvious that the people pushing this agenda have no idea how the following work: 1. Mining of the minerals needed (uses an enormous amount of fossil fuels) 2. Refining of minerals into useful raw materials (uses an enormous amount of fossil fuels, needed to generate electrical energy) 3. Manufacturing of all the needed electrical components (mainly batteries) 4. Generation and distribution of electrical energy (and associated losses)... 5. Complexity of the electrical systems needed for properly charging and discharging the battery. 6. Lifecycle of the vehicle, including recyclability of the materials used, life of the critical components (mainly the battery) 7. Potential risk associated with strapping a 1000 lb battery to your vehicle (... fyi: you can use many of the chemicals used in the battery to make fireworks / explosives) and how easily said battery can be damaged 8. It's virtual impossible / not economical to repair the battery after it has been damaged. 9. Useful life of the vehicle (maybe 4 years for an EV vs. 20 years for a well-maintained IC Vehicle) 10... etc etc etc. Once you understand the big picture, any logical person can conclude that there is a very good reason why EVs are so much more expensive that ICVs... and that there is no way they are better for the environment.
Hears "all of which are coming next year", bursts out laughing, spewing coffee all over keyboard. It's those dry punchlines that make this so watchable!!
Last I checked the 4th best selling vehicle in the US is an EV and it's made in the USA for a nice profit. The Worlds best selling vehicle is also a profitable EV. The rest of the US auto industry just needs to step it up.
Fwiw, I bought model 3 in 2018 and it has turned out to be an extraordinarily good car. My wife drove it from California to Massachusetts and through snowstorms that closed the freeway.
@@Jadenclemens I don't know if the joke works based on the wording. If it was his wife "rode" from California...etc Then - on a flat bed would work. But he specifically said "drove" ...
@@Jadenclemens Stop with the insane LIES! Cannon Ball Run with multiple failed attempts at a new EV record is 42 Hours. While the new EV record in a 2025 Porsche Taycan is 39 hours 29 minutes. No one practically needs to drive coast to cost in 42 hours or less. No flat bed required.
They are doing some very dubious parsing of what the “engine” is to arrive at that number of 10%. Especially for higher performance cars, there’s a LOT of extra connected subsystems they have to exclude to get it down to that number
Another reason Tesla sales are down is because people are waiting for a refreshed Model Y. I myself was debating to wait a year to get the new one pr not. I decided not to. But I know a lot of people personally waiting for it, to be revealed at least, before they purchase an EV
I will buy an EV whenever all of the following is true: 0. Purchase price not considerably higher than segment equivalent ICE, options in smaller dimension non-luxury segments. 1. Equal or better range than comparable segment and price ICE. 2. Broad, reliable and reasonably priced charging coverage in my region. 3. Proven long term (and maintenance-economical) service life of many EV drivetrains. 4. Depreciation comparable or better than ICE. 5. Well-established battery recycling infrastructure that makes environmental sense. 6. High safety factor battery design that practically eliminates the possibility of catastrophic failure (e.g. fires that are more dangerous than an ICE vehicle). Probably the only reason I would compromise on any of these is if ICE fuel becomes so expensive or unobtainable (for some reason) that the economic argument is overwhelming.
So you don't care about the environmental harm from burning through all that gasoline. What is it with all these anti-EV posts doing this weird "I don't care" reverse virtual signalling? Your objections will be met. Just don't buy another polluting gasser in the meantime. A few points: The dozen startups planning to recycle EV batteries are all waiting for enough to actually fail so they will ramp up operations. EVs catch fire at far lower rates than metal boxes containing gallons of flammable fuel.
@@skierpage I don't drive a 'gas guzzler' and generally don't drive much at all (within the limitations of where I live). I also have only bought second hand, reducing manufacturing emissions. I don't care about 'virtue signalling', I care about not sacrificing quality of life for no particularly appreciable reason. If you give me an EV that is superior to ICE, I will drive it. In the meantime I will let rich people willing to suffer the shortcomings of early adoption cover the development costs.
auto makers should focus on making the toyota corolla of EVS. Cheap, reliable, no bells and whistles. No point in electrifying their entire lineup before EVs are fully adopted
to recoup investment they need margin and profit. Small sedans have lowest margin and low profit = if you don't sell millions of them they turn out to be losing overall, not even break even. There is a reason why manufacturers stop producing small sedans.. Toyota itself is not upgrading a lot of sedan models.
The remaining two US automakers both drastically reduced their powertrain engineering staff over the past five years in anticipation of the move to EVs. They laid off or pushed retirement on *lots* of engineers, many with decades of experience designing, manufacturing and servicing IC engines and auto transmissions. That's not a knowledge base you can just snap your fingers and recreate. They're in a world of hurt if they need to go back to designing new ICE and hybrid vehicles. That talent is gone.
If only Ford and GM would grow a pair and explain to buyers all the ways an EV is better than a gasser. They're scared of Trump, they're scared of misinformed buyers, they're scared of dealers who still want to sell gassers... and then complain that their growing EV sales are not as high as they forecast.
Love it when a small country in Europe is put up as an example of success for some aspect of living. Most of those countries are a similar size as one of those smallest US states. No comparison in ability to implementations due to population, culture, distances in travel, and major differences in climate or physical characteristics.
The math surrounding EVs being better for the environment is seriously flawed. EVs require expanding the electrical grid, massively compounding the resources needed for grid installation and maintenance. EVs use an unsustainable amount of rare earth metals. EVs are much heavier than ICEs, therefore increasing the amount of energy used to accellerate. The braking system similarly is less efficient and expends more materials, creating more particulate pollution. EVs wear out tires 30% faster and have a higher chance of fatality in accidents due to their mass. EVs cost more money which means people will have to work more and drive more just to pay for them if they can even afford them or the time wasted at a charging station. EVs are sensitive to temperature, the battery durabillity and efficiency will decrease in extreme weather. It takes at least 2 years of driving an EV just to offset the carbon footprint of producing an EV compared to an ICE. So, if your heavy, fast accellerating, slow decellerating EV gets in a wreck in the first 2 years, you just did more to increase global warming than if you had bought and driven an ICE... and that's not even considering the strip mining, and deep earth mining required for EV materials. The increased wear and tear on roadways due to the extra weight per vehicle and the amount of carbon dioxide involved in paving, or the cost? The real winners in the EV game are the utillity companies, mining companies, tire manufacturers, chinese battery plants, and credit facillities. The consumer and the planet will just have to put out even more...
What is the carbon cost of additional paving? How likely is any EV to be destroyed by an accident in the first two years? How much energy does a heavy EV lose to acceleration when it has regenerative braking, and how does that compare to an ICE SUV?
"EVs require expanding the electrical grid" The electrical grid is always expanding, EV boom or not. ICEs also require infrastructure. Drilling, refining, transport of gasoline is a globe spanning system. "The braking system is less efficient and uses more materials" False, regenerative braking is just the electric motors used to move the vehicle working as generators. Beyond that, EVs use the same brakes as ICEs do. Which use dirt common materials. Regenerative braking actually reduces wear on the normal breaks and spreads less particulates due to not solely repying on friction.
@@CandleWisp Yes, but the infrastructure for ICEs already exist and I don't think people realize how much the electrical grid will have to be expanded to accomodate BOTH AI/datacenters AND BEV's. This isn't a simple plug and play revolution and it will actually accelerate global warming and resource exhaustion while impoverishing the middle and lower class.
@@scottotterson3978 FYI Concrete and asphalt paving is extremely carbon intensive (about 1 Ton CO2 per lane mile). Regenerative braking still relies on an increase in tire friction. The mass of a BEV is about a ton more than a comparable ICE. You can't cheat physics. BTW Lithium and Neodymium mining are extremely bad for the environment. So the trade off really isn't about benefitting the environment, it's about the amount of money captured by capital markets via tech disruption, and the amount of credit consumers will need to afford transportation and rising prices.
@@CandleWispIt's true that the grid is always expanding, but now you have EVs, AI, Crypto, and climate effects all happening at the same time and our current grid is often challenged as it is. California has been adopting BEV's and now they are experiencing rolling blackouts...and that was before the wildfires. Look, I think it is a valid argument to say that radical adoption of EVs at this point is a bit ridiculous. It's a very hard sell to consumers who are already in a crunch. And the technology is extremely bad for the environment. FCEVs, PHEVs, HICEs or even ammonia engines seem more sesible to me. We already use most of the materials used in those technologies and it won't require a major overhaul of our grid.
When I can buy an electric car that is affordable, that I can jump in and drive 700k's and know I will be able to charge it in a few minutes, drive it through deep potholes and it isn't written off and own it for 20 years without having to replace the motors and batteries etc. then I will consider. When there is full honest transparity regarding the environmental and human cost. Until then I will keep my regular car.
i am a business analyst and a trained mechanic. Weird I know. After driving a Tesla for 10 years and 228,000 miles (380,000 km), my battery is still 87% and the car drives as new. Anyone who thinks ICE will be competitive in 2030 is fooling themselves .. and I used to tune muscle cars! EVs are just getting started.
@@johnwright9372 the EV "problem" in Chicago wasn't due to the cars themselves, it was due to the charging stations being is high states of disrepair. If you charge at home, this is literally never a problem, even in cold Temps.
@@johnwright9372 Apparently, they do fine in much colder places. You lose range and waste more power using the car but that is pretty much all I heard about it. Every time I hear news like that from the US I suspect a few owners left their car to die at 0% charge and permanently bricked their battery and then the local media cashed in on it with some good click bait articles. Edit: To go into a bit more detail: Most cars have a way to heat the battery so a garage is not needed. If the battery is empty it can not heat itself and this would result in serious problems. Large parts of Europe can hit -15C in cold winters. If this was a problem we would hear about it every winter
As is trying to make ICE cars more efficient by attaching pricier parts (turbos, mild hybrid systems) that will fail faster and cost the customer even more money over it's lifetime. I'll take EV's in the long run.
You don’t think Tesla's declining sales have anything to do with Elon’s very public political opinions being in direct contrast with the type of people who'd typically buy an electric car?
@@greg_289 Tesla in particular also has this problem where it hasn't had a new model or a meaningful redesign in a very long time, except a single example that doesn't exactly help the brand's image. It went from the shiny new auto company to the auto company with no shiny new things that anyone wants very quickly. The Model 3 can be a well-loved vehicle all it wants, but the market is changing, and Tesla isn't.
@@deggy42 The current version of the model 3 is nothing like it was a few years ago. Upcoming model Y is significantly different to this years model. They just don’t change the name or make radical exterior changes, that’s all. Model Y was the best selling car in the world in 2024.
@ I'm not arguing that the car is identical. Other automakers introduce new models and reimagine old ones. When Tesla does that, we get... the Cybertruck. That makes people less inclined to spring for a new Tesla - lots of people buy a car knowing that for a while, folks will look at them and say "hey, that's the new _____". New models are good marketing, they indicate that a brand is evolving, and they nudge owners of older models into looking longingly at the new shiny. Adding new sensors and software to the Model 3 might improve functionality, but it doesn't catch eyes.
4:00 The look on that dude's face about sums it up. If that was a real V8 exhaust, you would see joy. Here, you see a man wondering exactly what is going on and, perhaps, if he ever accepts this nonsense, wondering how much it would cost to replace a blown exhaust speaker.
This guy just lied. The Tesla model Y sold over 400,000 vehicles. So it beat the Chevy Silverado and the Toyota Rav 4. 1.19 million battery electric vehicles were sold in 2023 in the US 1.30 million battery electric vehicles were sole in 2024 in the US So demand for electric vehicles grew in 2024.
Go to hensonshaving.com/BOYLE and enter BOYLE at checkout to get a free tube of Shave Cream with your purchase of a Henson Razor.
just let it slide guys. even if its.a scam, they still paid our man patrick.
aloominum???
Watching this video you might get the impression that EVs are a fad that is fading quickly. The truth is global EV sales have been growing consistently every year for the last ten years at a rate of 20 to 35%. Conversely internal combustion engine vehicle sales peaked in 2017. If you want to get an idea of where EV sales are headed just lookup the price of lithium ion batteries over time.
@Patrick. HAPPY NEW YEAR 👍🍾🍾🥂I look forward to another year of great content.
Electrification is killing the industry like diesel killed trains..
You're either on the bus, or off it (like Toyota, Nokia also wasn't too big to die from the wrong decisions) and buses are also not stream powered.
Years of ridiculously low interest rates convinced automakers that anyone can afford $100K car which is definitely not the case at >%5 interest rates.
100k in some UK cities is a 1 bed small apartment waiting for renovation lol
given the ridiculous wealth and income inequality in the US (one of the worst of the industrial nations) and one of the worst capabilties of social mobility i sure as hell wonder everyday the amount of absurdly expensive cars driving around.
The vast majority of people incur debts because they wanna flex their not existing wealth. And those automakers play that game with a passion, as they all have banks themselfs where you can lease and finance your fancy new car.
@@wackrapsatire yep, it's interesting how the human psyche work. If you have nothing you want to show that you have a lot and this is a perfect example.
@@davidbarth80 agreed 👌
@@SFDY241 In fairness, it was also years of incredibly stupid buyers.
You can't sell a green car if everyone's in the red.
the dark truth of limited supply of lithium ion batteries
@@CyborgHGWF best selling car platform in the world is the Model 3/Y but sure
@@CyborgHGWF
Is it limited supply or just costly?
@@antman7673 It's a new technology, which always starts off expensive and then goes lower over time. Just like microprocessors and chemicals
If money was an issue, there wouldn't be half as many SUVs.
Fake exhaust sounds on an EV are incredibly lame. You would be in for a social mocking
BMW started it with fake exhaust sounds aka "Active Sound Design" on an actual M5 over a decade ago because the turbo-V8 didn't sound as good as the NA V10 it replaced
What do you think about the fake gear changes? Dear lord car bro's are stupid.
@@j.f.christ8421Why? Because they'd rather not drive what amounts to a golf cart and, if they have to, they'd rather it be somewhat entertaining? Truth be told, they'd rather have a gearbox, but they'll take what they can get.
It’s like vegan chicken wings
perceptive
Small EVs make total sense. Commuting, school run, local trips.. hugely expensive luxury 2.5 ton SUVs that are expensive to run, have massive depreciation and can only be purchased by most with massive subsidies and bank loans, seems absurd.(edit obviously I mean electric or fuel based SUVs)
EVs make sense in cities where you aren't going too far, I don't think they really make sense even if you are commuting from the suburbs TO the cities.
But really the key thing is "does your increased electricity bill cost more than your gas bill"
In places like California our gas taxes are insane so its pretty expensive, but we also have rolling brownouts throughout the state as even now we cannot produce the electricity we need, yet a couple years ago our governor signed into law that you cannot buy gas powered cars after 2030 with no plan to produce the electricity that would be required for everyone to be running EVs.
I think that a LOT of the EV push is about the feels and for "pro-environmental" political points without the needed thinking & infrastructure to back it all up.
They don't make sense for anyone who has to travel longer distances, or who can't reliably park next to a charger overnight. You do realize a lot of people have to park their cars on the street or in basement parking garages under apartment blocks right?
Also, if you think the depreciation on SUVs is bad, wait until you see how bad it is for an EV. No one wants to risk buying something that's on the cusp of needing a battery replacement that will cost as much or more than the car cost them.
@@Graven-Ash even here where gas is cheap there is no comparison in electricity bill versus gas bill. Electricity is cheaper by several miles. I've had a plug-in hybrid for about 6 months now that charges every night, and the difference in electricity bill is so small I didn't even notice it. Obviously a full EV is going to have a bigger affect, but we are talking a fraction of the price of gas.
The only downsides to EVs right now are the upfront costs, and the complicated long distance driving.
Can't wait for Aptera 🙏
Riding a bike could use the same argument about your precious EV.
No, the lack of attention/foresight is killing the car industry lol.
I’ve recently been thrusted back into the market and I’ve been blown away by how unimpressive new cars are, despite the astronomical price tags. Cheap materials, random noises/rattles, and horrid interior designs - pretty much across the board. I’m not paying $60k for poorly-airbrushed “wood grain” plastic or touch-screen infotainment systems with latency like a 2005 Amazon Kindle.
i want mechanic. i do not want infotainment systems. no gimmicks. no computers with softwarebugs and updates and able to been hacked. mechanics.
@ I can get jiggy with analog. Whatever it may be, I just need it done right lol And i have no clue why that’s apparently so difficult
@AS-np3yq find a time machine and go back to the sixties.
Computers in cars are just too practical to get left out again.
Even the cheapst smallest IC-engine car nowadays has one.
I doubt you will find any non-oldtimer without at least several computerized components.
I was in the same situation in October. My last car was a 2008 Infiniti ex35 and I loved her. But she died to rust. Since I buy and don’t lease I wanted something that needs to last. I was incredibly unimpressed with what is coming down the pipe in 2025 onwards. Small stressed engines with turbos and or hybrids. Not. A. Chance. So. Ended up with a 2024 Toyota 4Runner. “Ancient” tech and a rock solid naturaly aspirated engine and a simple 5 speed trans it’s amazing. I love it and I smile everything I get in the truck. The new stuff is garbage.
Is it even possible to get an electric car with a classic tactical button dashboard? As recent as 15 years ago, tablet screens in view of the driver were illegal (where I live); this needs to be a widespread restriction imho
It's ironic to me that Norway only could afford transitioning to EV's because of their vast oil exports.
Uhm their income is also very high. Compared to other countries. That also helps. USA has also VAST oil exports and sales.
The income from the export of oil and gas goes into the sovereign wealth fund which isn’t allowed to spend money in Norway. All investments take place abroad. So our dear Patrick was wrong there.
Its more down to ICE cars have a 100% tax originally, and that EV's could then get 0% tax. So there is just a tax loss for the government - the money lost by the government is still in the economy (in peoples wallets). But the fact that people were accustomed to 100% tax made this possible (and the fact that Norway doesn't have an auto-industry).
Its nice that me not young broke norwegen driving my 2002 civic pay ekstra and otheres driving there brand new tycans pay less and also get more help to buy the car than my car is worth
well it's also bc they tax oil companies heavily and then invest it, also they can export so much because of their massive hydro industry.
2:15 "All of which are coming next year" Patrick, your dry humor is really incredible.
Half the things he mentioned physically exist as a product right now, the other half are indeed in development, it's a good joke, but a bad lie
@@nathansussyep, next year.
@@nathansussor was it next back in 2017? 😂
@@nathansuss Maybe you should look at Elons claims year after year...
@@RanEncounter who cares what he claimed, guessed, or stipulated. It shouldn't take away from what they've actually done, which is a better historical record to base the future on anyways
It's killing the manufacturers who thought they will continue selling cars at a premium forever
And that just happens to be nearly every manufacturer that sells in the USA. Other countries get cheap EVs because they don't have an EPA that effectively outlawed small cars (and that's tragically ironic considering the purpose of the EPA).
Yeah, we're so stupid why don't we get rid of environmental regulations and put our prison population to work on the plantations like we used to and China does currently.. 🙄
It's not just EPA. China also has a much lower safety and reliability standard. And doesn't enforce IP laws.
I live in China and 55% of the market are EVs or PHEVs. The difference vs USA is the cars are CHEAP and every model is offered as EV or PHEV in same price. Plus the EREVs which are long range PHEVs and this category dont even exist outside of China. Basically China is 10 years ahead in car market:)
@@awesomeferret EPA has nothing to do with it. It's NHTSA.
One of the massive problems with EVs is the manufacturers actively suppressing any attempts at independent repair.
which is just an extension of the normal auto industry chicanery of the last 25 years (looks at OEM Bosch parts made in the same factory to the exact same spec and different only from "genuine" by lacking a BMW imprint and part number and an extra digit in the price)
The problem with EVs if they don't solve the problem they pretend to solve. They are not anymore environmentally friendly than a standard ICE vehicle, and are likely worse. They APPEAR they do because with subsidies they appear to be cheaper to maintain, own, and use - but that's because of subsidies. It distorts the market. The energy used to charge them, they are from diesel, natural gas, and other fossil fuels for the most part. Power plants produce the same emissions as an ICE does. Transmission lines have losses, charging a battery has losses, mining the materials to make the vehicle has tremendous energy expenditures.
Somebody pointed out if we lived in a different reality - how would you feel if all cars were electric, and suddenly a new vehicle showed up on the scene that could be powered by this thing called "gasoline"? It would take you 1.5 minutes to "recharge", it produced CO2 and water when being used and it had 5x the range? I think we should have built infrastructure for LPG cars, that's just natural gas made into a liquid due to compression - they burn very cleanly, they have a reduced range, but the car can still use gasoline as a backup. We have TONS of natural gas, most of your electricity is produced by it. Cut out the middle man..
@@fuzzywzheSuch complete nonsense.
@@fuzzywzhe After 200 000 miles, the average ICE car will emit on average 85-90 tons of CO2. An electric vehicule will emit 35 tons with high pollution grid. This includes car production, fuel or electricity generation. ICE cars doesn't have much room for improvement, EV have with recycling, green grid and tech improvements. The best way to move around stays walking, cycling and public transports.
@@onis86 What does the power plant producing electricity produce in CO2 for an EV? HOW do you know? You're giving me numbers and figures, I need data and I'm in this field, so I suspect your data is incorrect.
You KNOW we can't talk here. If I try to educate you on this technology, my comments stop showing up. It's HOPELESS to try to educate people here. You may not even see this.
Across the board, car prices have gone into the stratosphere - even a modest car is pushing $30K (CAD), a base EV starts close to $60K - an average salary is $50-60K - how the heck does anyone afford anything in this climate?
Buying a new car is actually pretty weird, most new cars are leases and people buy used cars.
This leads to large luxury sales as the old cars occupy the cheap car niche.
When selling a cheap car you have to compete against old luxury cars, so you have to include expensive features, which puts a floor on the price
And when trying to make middle sector cars you hit the real jag problem. You can make the best car in the world but no one will buy it if it has the wrong badge. If you want to have the right badge you need to do cool stuff. A car company that makes affordable cars for grannies is not cool.
My theory is this market might just be a result of low interest rates.
The lower interest cost means lower lease payments, which mean more expensive cars are leased which trickles down.
@ That’s definitely not my experience of the marketplace for cars. While leasebacks aren’t unusual, and do create a degree of pricing pressure, I don’t think that drives the majority of people’s decision making around car purchases. The piece that I think you missed is that even a relatively pedestrian model like a Honda Civic is going for $30K these days - and short of a decade-long loan, that’s way beyond the means of people who earn average salaries.
It’s not that long ago that most makes had one or two models that I would describe as “aspirational” vehicles. A little bit high on the price point, but still accessible if you wanted to stretch a bit, and a whole bunch of more mundane models that were still perfectly good and the prices were in line with what people earned. It worked pretty well - and yes, there were still “high end” vehicles out there which weren’t driving the “used market” by any stretch of the imagination.
Welcome to France, has been like that for decades
@@mgs337 to be clear I agree completely with your comment.
There is a common belief that peak car quality was 2015 (incidentally when top gear ended)
That was my belief on how the market got that way
Part of the issue is its really hard to make a modern car that you could sell for less than 30k, we have such massive requirements on safety, expectations on speed etc, that you end up expensive. And if you want an ev you got to pay for a battery either way.
Realistically cars are going to keep growing until safety regulation focus on what a car does to others rather than the inhabitants.
I remember the first time first time working on a theoretical vehicle, you’d have standard cases that the vehicles need to cover, but all of them went straight out the window cause all that matters is meeting top speed, 0-60 time and gradient capability targets.
You’d see side by side with exactly what a consumer needs, and just how massively over specced every car was.
I alway try convince family to buy as small an ev as possible, young friends in the sector are the same.
People just don’t want to, a tiny little car is just not aspirational. Customers buy cars based upon feeling.
By removing import tariffs on Chinese cars thats how. American companies can't compete with evs so they lobby for the tariffs.
Who could have predicted, (I) price gouging during a cost of living crises and (II) refusing to make the cars your customers want; would have bad results?!?
They're not rufusing, they literally aren't allowed.
@@operator8014By who? It's not stopping Toyota
@@operator8014They are allowed, but it makes far more economic sense to refuse to make those cars because of the emissions regulation exemptions granted to trucks/SUVs, but not sedans, and how that eats into their margins. Europe has the exact same kind of regulations, but without the carve-outs for SUVs/trucks, and their automotive market looks much healthier because giant cars aren’t artificially made more profitable.
@Jerdifier Good try. Wrong. The CAFE requirements state that for the 2024 MY, a vehicle with the utility and footprint of a Ford Fiesta, it is required to get a minimum of 90MPG combined. Pickups and SUVs are still being made and sold and they're HUGE, because at their footprint and with their utility, they are only required to hit 26MPG combined.
It is NOT allowed. Thank you Democrats, thank you SO MUCH. 👌👌👌
@@operator8014 you said literally not allowed which is wrong. They are allowed to manufacture new sedans, those sedans are just required to meet obscene efficency requirements which make their creation impossible in practice.
There is no law which says such cars cannot be built, just a lot of very good reasons not to bother.
I work as a millwright in a GM plant that has recently transitioned to making EV’s and batteries. It doesn’t require a totally different work force to do so.
True, correct 👍both retooling and retraining can be done successfully within an existing plant. It's actually more efficient to do that than it is to build a new facility and staff it with brand new labor.
The legacy OEM can’t make money and big oil is worried about losing government subsidies…. This drives them to spread fear uncertainty and doubt related to EVs. EVs are undoubtedly the future of transport regardless.
It just requires many fewer of you
@@djpalindrome actually it requires more skilled workers but less line workers.
@@KsazDFW driving an EV myself I believe this to be true. It’s a newer technology and already drives better than gas engines. Once a couple things improve like battery longevity the technology will be undeniably better.
Patrick, you missed an opportunity to say that Dyson and Jaguar are both in the sucking business now, but I'm not a comedian or a wrapper so I don't know about how to present these things.
I used to be a wrapper. But I got fired for using too much scotch tape.
As skilled of a comedian/Rapper mr. Boyle is that would be easy pickings. He doesn't seem to stoop to such low brow humour one of the main reasons he is the comedic genius he is.
Bam!😂😂
I dont't know if it is that the product sucks or the fine gentlemen in the ad suck
You're not a wrapper or not a rapper?
Insane prices are what’s killing the industry.
Yet they lose thousands on every vehicle sold. One of many reasons this forced EV transition is destined to fail.
@@FatherOBlivion To be precise, this is a non-market behavior. It is a purely political behavior. Europe tried to promote electric vehicles 20 years ago, and every car brand failed. So Europe quickly gave up on electric vehicles. Electric vehicles were put on the mandatory agenda again because of the gimmick of environmental protection and new energy. Because this is against market behavior, a large amount of subsidies were used to allow electric vehicles to enter the market. The results were all the opposite.
It's why I always buy a good used car. Buying new is not a wise use of money.
@@GeometryEX-hp9zs Europe found themselves an excuse to be able to compete with Toyota plus they get to stand on the moral high ground but they end up shoot themselves in the foot that now they need to compete with a more aggressive China. At least Japan has better worker protection and higher wages, so it's a fair battle on who's creating a better brand. If you want to compete with China, the only effective way is also provide non existence worker protection, lower wages and lower social welfare to be competitive in product's price, a race to the bottom. But are European willing to do any of these at all?
The insane prices on ICE vehicles is to cover EV losses. Take EV’s out of the picture and prices should normalize.
I think there's a major road block to EV adoption that is ignored in most of these discussions.
Over 1/3 of people in the us rent. It isnt feesable to charge your vehicle v when you live in an apartment, and can't upgrade or install an outlet in a house that you dont own. While super chargers are becoming more common, they lower the life of the battery if constantly used, and gas stations are obviously many times more abundant. Renters have no good path to going electric.
They do. Their landlord.
Every street lamp is connected to the grid. Why is it so hard for people to see it coming that cars can be charged everywhere. I live in a rental apartment, I have an EV, there are many AC chargers around my neighborhood(yes, they use the same grid as those street lights, its magical). Its really no drama unless walking 2minutes is the end of the world for you. If the country you live in doesnt bother to build public chargers than that problem is the country you live in, not EVs
@@_Dibbler_ Street lamps only draw a few kW of power. Good luck charging an EV at such slow rates
It is not just the rental market. I live in a big apartment building with a big parking garage for residents in the basement. You can't charge your car there. There are now plans to install a network of high voltage wires such that everyone who wants can install their own charger on that grid. But this costs everyone with a parking place there a few hundred dollar, so it isn't guaranteed the majority will agree to do so.
Renters don't have electricity? All 3500 miles our new Leaf has driven since September came from a level 3 charger via a standard 110v outlet.
The problem in the US, and increasingly the EU, is with the size of cars. Here in Japan tiny low-cost hybrids are everywhere, and while pure EV sales are slow because of a lack charging infrastructure, they are coming. The difference is that people here aren't sacrificing size because land arks are impractical and dangerous (although a fair number of assholes insist on buying them). Back in the US you need to tower over the road in your Mad Max machine or risk being run over. Small hybrids and EVs are proven technology, but nobody can make an affordable 2,000kg vehicle. This is a direct result of the truck exemption from fuel efficiency back in 1975.
I just want to continue to drive a manual transmission truck that weigh under a ton. They are getting impossible to find, the laws need to change. I shouldn't have to import a truck to get a small form factor fuel efficient truck, my current ford ranger truck is at 180k miles, and I hope to make it last as many more years as a I can.
I can't believe that a law that devastated the US automotive landscape didn't change since 1975. And that still hasn't changed after the Paris agreement and the new climate change regulations. Why?
Ahh, the "big cars evil" rant combined with the "guvment save us" rant.
@@droe2570 big cars kill pedestrians, mate.
I cannot afford a car I really want , thus those who buy them are assholes rant.
"Cheap Chinese imports" should be renamed to "Normally priced imports" when the prices are at 30k eur plus.
Or as state funded ev's
How much does modern slavery and coerced labor account for lower manufacturing costs?
They put huge tarifs in the EU, If they do not doit the german automakers will already be in a bankrrupcy, and probably the goverment too. Germany is cutting about 10,000 car related jobs per month as od Dec 2024.
@@NLJeffEU What is your problem with a government providing cheap finance to create the world's largest car industry?
@@Srulio In China it is not an issue. They also have highly automated production lines.
You know which EVs don't depreciate rapidly? Shorter range and PHEV economy cars.
Almost like that's what the market wants or something...
WTF that's because they barely exist. They also have much higher probability of FIRE due the ICE not properly engineered for that operating cycle.
No one but fleets care about depreciation, if they did, they wouldn’t buy new.
@@Nun195 I buy 1-3 year old, sell at 10 years. The sweet spot of the bathtub curve.
@@Nun195 Well, that and drivers who feel they need a new car every couple of years.
"All of which are coming next year." This is the type of stoic sarcasm I come here for
Savage, yet calm and collected
You come here for sarcasm? I come here for videos about rap
They've been coming next year for the last decade!
@@rioriggs3568that’s the joke
I know
Look electric is fine, but they still need to be practical. And all cars suffer from the designers being overly in love with being futuristic. My sister just bought a new car - that isn’t even electric, it just electrified the dashboard - there are no buttons or knobs to control anything just a giant touch screen. Tell me how you’re supposed to turn the defroster on without taking your eyes off the road if turning it on requires navigating through digital menus on a touchscreen? 🤦🏼♀️
Voice commands. I'm not kidding, that is how I do it.
@@gsogymrat "Defroster on! Btw, start the oven in the apartement, too!"
Car: "I am sorry, gsogy-baby-love. I can´t do that."
gsogymrat: "What you mean??? Jesus, the treeline comes awfully close!"
@@gsogymrat no thank you, I'm not allowing any car company to record my voice. They already can't be trusted with your GPS data.
Electric is not fine. How is it fine?
Here here..👍 touch screens have a reasonable use case in GPS navigation where the destination is set before driving. Using touch screens to control car functions while driving is downright dangerous. This brings the Australian law of savagely fining mobile phone use while driving but turning a blind eye to installed vehicle touch screen use while on the road..🤔
"they were promised an energy transition with no drop in prosperity or living standard". You mean they were lied to
But only the poor were affected and they don't really count.
Yep they lied, people are benefiting from energy transition already. Especially UK residents who got hit with the Crude Oil fuel supply problems.
But to be fair how dumb is the average voter to actually swallow that lie
Yes, and: "..which no longer seems to be the case." From my perspective, it never seemed to be the case to begin with, and that made the propaganda look nefarious.
They don't even have the infrastructure to handle a transition to 50% EVs. This doesn't even account for the AI computing facilities they want to build and that can eat up the electricity of a small city...
The funny thing about the market's top sellers being trucks and SUVs is that when looking for a new car, that is 99% of what you can find. They stopped making small (cheap) cars and made everything so damned expensive that I'm just going to keep babying my 15 year old car until they start making anything I actually *want* to drive again...
Electrification being rushed isn't great, but the auto industry repeatedly reducing the range and choice you can have in their products is why China's starting to eat their lunch....
You can thank Obama for effectively banning small cars when they put out the new emissions standards based upon wheelbase and made small cars very difficult to achieve those numbers and they were usually the lowest margin vehicles. Trump and Biden haven't changed this issue either so they don't plan to fix it.
I hate trucks and SUVs but they are popular with people. I don't think it is a good financial to take out a car loan just to buy a vehicle larger than you need, but lots of people disagree with me. Yeah the auto industry pushes them but a lot of it is consumers demanding them too.
electrification is being rushed because it has to be rushed
time is not on our side
I would love a truck if it were a reasonable size. Then again I'd also love a Chinese EV but they're illegal here too.
@@ItWasSaucerShaped Electrification is completely unnecessary.
In Sweden EVs have been preferentially treated because of pollution, not climate change. The government tried to impose a "gas car free zone" in the middle of Stockholm. They had to back away from that though because it imposed such a big burden on companies in the area. I think it's pretty stupid because nobody drives there anyways unless they have to, and this just means gas cars and hybrids have to drive around.
What made my mom spring for a hybrid and now maybe full EV is free charging in her garage. If all garages in Stockholm had an outlet by every parking space that would probably do a heckuva lot more for EV sales.
Now I don't know what to think about EVs. As you said, if driving is cheap nobody takes the train. I used to travel five hours by car a lot because it was much cheaper for me than taking the train. What we really need are better and less expensive trains that actually work.
Yes
Here again for some reason, in the US, rail costs 10X more than building highways. That’s insane. Who’s going to finance that? Our government spends way too much time giving all our tax money away instead actually using it for the “common good”
you pay for the electricity, nothing is free at home.
@AS-np3yq nah solar
Lol "free". Whats the tax burden in sweden, 50, 60%?
Thanks!
Dear automakers, get rid of the tech and screens, just keep the electric motor and get the price point under 30k. Preferably under 20k.
Can’t be more simple.
@gtagh China already produces low cost EVs.
Getting rid of screens would *increase* the price - buttons are more expensive.
@@benoithudson7235offset it by removing a lot of the creature comforts. I don't need adaptive cruise control, Bluetooth, etc.
I'm still waiting for a basic elec corolla.
Another thing to add on the rapid adoption of EVs in Norway is that Norway has historically been a very electrified country due to its great abundance of hydro energy. The fact that most of the country runs purely on electricity made the adoption a lot smoother
That makes more sense. Cart before horse for most of us in the West though.
What do you mean by Norway being 'very electrified'? Hydro power is great, but plenty of countries have electricity and renewable grids (like Iceland or Canada) without such high EV adoption. Norway isn't special-they just prioritized EV incentives and infrastructure, like charging stations, while making ICE cars way more expensive. That’s what drove the transition.
norway is tiny thats it
Indeed - Norway is unique in the combination of factors at play. It’s in no way a useful model that the vast majority of other countries could follow.
Ironically it’s an excellent example of how many exceptional conditions are required, rather than how easy it is to succeed in an EV transition.
Because Norway are small country with Population only 5,56 million people. Compare to 335 million people in US. It just the number of illegal imigran here.
23:50 - EV slowdown could also be related to interest rates - after all, "Tesla buyers are amongs the most indebted new buyers"
And the most "regarded" ones it seems, long term debt on a car that loses half it's value in a year. 😂
@@MadeInChinaPlat Having owned a few new vehicles myself I no longer will buy another one until I'm prepared to put at least 50% down. New car/truck prices are stupidly expensive compared to just 12 years ago. That said, we do plan on adding a Tesla Y to our fleet after the next gen comes out this year.
@ In my case, if i can't pay it in full, i don't buy it. Only loan i wanna have is mortgage.
in 2024 I made several business trips to Norway and rented an EV every time. The infrastructure was amazing.
But then I come back to the UK where I wouldn't even consider buying an EV.
I drive a 2005 Toyota Corolla I got in a "get my son's first car out of my freaking driveway" sale for $400 and a plate of cookies. It gets me to and from work, and every once in a while it gets me up to the city. I probably won't upgrade to EVs until I can buy an old EV shitbox for a thousand dollars or less. I wonder if we'll ever see that day.
Same here. My mechanic tells me 2004 Subaru is good until 2040.
2012 Nissan leaf? You can get them for a grand. Or one of the many rebrands that's the iMEV. These have too poor of a range for anything other than commuting and regional travel though.
@@Luka_3Dwhich is the best spot for EVs. Commuter cars
@@pmscalisi It's a good spot for short ranged evs. Anything that's aproaching 300 miles in range or even 200 is probably enough for most people for most tasks.
I used to be like you until I bought a used, 1 year old model 3, game changer. Makes life a lot easier and drives enjoyable. Well worth it
"Stellantis" sounds like a medication advertised on the evening news.
And is an ADHD non stimulant medication with rare instances of glioblastoma cancer
Sounds like a evil company in a fiction novel. Ripe for massive lawsuits, and the ceo going to federal prison.
@@justinhogue9861 ceo going to prison? you're right that must be fiction.
It’s great for constipation! Stellantis, just let it all go!
😂😂😂
I live in rural Northern Ontario, Canada, where there is both huge distances to cover by car and absolutely freezing winter temperatures. Journeys in the low hundreds of kilometres are not uncommon. The only people up here with EV's are rich people who think electric cars are cool and have other vehicles when they actually want to drive somewhere.
For the vast majority of people up here, getting an EV is simply not feasible at all. The technology would have to improve by leaps and bounds and become much more affordable for the average person around here to seriously consider one.
I live in a luxury gated community of condos in Brooklyn NY. The management said they can install chargers for like $1500 if you want one. I haven't seen a single charger in the garage. We have Rolls Royces and Lambos. Nobody wants an electric car here in a city that you would never need to travel more than the 200 miles or so of range. If these condos were in San Fransico or Los Angeles, a bunch of assholes that convince themselves they are saving the world would have these charging stations installed.
Fortunately a tiny fraction of Canadian car buyers live up there. Just get out of the way while everyone who drives less than 100 miles a day and has access to a plug at home or work buys an EV.
Give it a few years. If it works in Norway it should work in Canada.
I find these multiple major miscalculations of governments, environmentalists, and the auto industry absolutely hilarious. Used to be 'let the buyer beware'. This has now been turned on its head by the buyers, or rather non-buyers. Power to the people. I will buy neither the EVs or the bullshit surrounding them. But thanks for the laughs.
Really brightened my day.
With declining quality, new features that are either useless or behind a monthly subscription, and forever fatter vehicles killing the small car segment, I am convinced that the auto industry is killing the auto industry.
I agree this is terrible, but much of it is from consumer demand and trends. People love buying SUVs for some reason. They don't mind perpetual month subscriptions either. I don't get it, but I guess I'm old.
Major part of this is regulation
@@username7763 WRONG Because people are old and unfit is why people like SUVs. It's because of the Ride Height and seating position. The industry term for it's Hip Point for the ratio of hip seating position to floor relative to roof height. I'm only middle aged and my left hip has issues. You are the target market.
@@ireminmon Nope that is a misinformation meme. It's poor health and ergonomics is why people like CUVs. CUVs are NOT part of the regulation loop hole.
@@Neojhun SUV's and Trucks avoid the burden of mandated fuel economy and emissions targets. SUV's were introduced to the market as a way around those, first and foremost. While I do agree that the likes of your hip and my knees make them a good choice for many, that's not the reason that they were thrust upon us at all.
If automakers gave a care about us, we would have had SUV's when our soldiers returned home after the great war. But we didn't.
8:30 you cant talk about northern europes ev adoption rates without referencing the massive hydroelectric dam infrastructure, which is the only real renewable energy venture
The lack of charging infrastructure is the biggest thing killing EV sales. If you don't have a home charger, then they make no sense at any price.
If you have one though, it’s awesome
But a home charger is actually a very simple thing. It's just a 240v Dryer Plug.
@@Neojhun A lot of people rent and own cars. You need it to be accessible to those people
Or living in a place with severe Winters, then your battery dies...
@@hardtailhardtrails One affordable housing development by people I work with was required to put in two charging stations. One of them is broken and the other is permanently used by the same tenant. They are very expensive and a lot of work to regulate as the commons.
Wait until Range Rover finds out selling 150k luxury boats is not for everyone.
EV's don't solve anything if they keep on being occupied on average 1.2 persons per car on the roads.
Cleaner air and less polluted water tables. But you're right, nothing beets WFH to reduce congestion while allowing them better use of their free time vs.being stuck in a car/bus/train.
Kinda missed the projection that more than 50% of car sales in China will be EVs this year. Considering that the majority of legacy autos profits come from China, legacy autos are dead in the water
Buick must be circling the drain again.
You couldn't pay me to buy a chinese EV . There catching daily in china daily
I was a hoping that you would mention other countries, I feel like Chinese EVs will eat European and American cars for breakfast in developing countries that don't have loyalties to a particular brand, as long as the Chinese are willing to put the charging infrastructure
China does not seem to be having trouble producing low cost high value EVs. I kind of think it's some sort of political resistance that's causing the problem.
@@stanleytolle416 It was massive government funding.
That’s why so many little Chinese car startups boomed a few years ago. Most of those companies died.
@@chrissmith3587 The fact is that more than 70% of Chinese car owners still choose fuel or hybrid cars as their means of transportation. Less than 10% choose electric cars because of subsidies. Another 5% or so of electric cars are forced to be replaced by companies due to political push.
In Europe they will gain a significant market but European automakers will continue to exist,just like how the Japanese never won over them, in the USA they will never be allowed, more concerning is not the Chinese winning over the European market but the Chinese in china not buying European cars especially German autos
Hi from Kenya, mass market loyalty here is to Japanese car brands. The residuals on a Toyota make it logical too.
I go to work in a 2001 Lancia Ypsilon paid €1500 15 years ago. Who in their sane mind would think that when it breaks beyond repair I'll replace it with a €30k Tesla?
Cars are stupid now. You can go out and buy a 90k (CAD) Jeep Wagoneer and you know what? It's trash, just the whole thing. Unreliable, bad build quality, squeaks and rattles--all sorts of stuff you'd never expect on a new car. Stellantis is the worst but far from the only offender, and that's just regular old ICE cars. Add EV bullshit on top and ew, no thank you. Bad enough that ICE cars have a million computers and extremely complex parts assemblies that are horribly expensive to replace--let's have MORE computers and MORE software! I want a car that doesn't work right in the cold, can't tow, and one day just might not want to take a charge (just like so many other lithium-ion devices today) because ???? Get out the multimeter, hooray!
Fuck that noise. Gonna keep my old dirty van with its stupid simple V8 engine and cheap parts, thanks.
Your stupid simple V8 engine burning through literally tons of dirty fossil fuel is nothing to be proud of.
EV batteries are nothing like "other lithium-ion devices", EVs monitor and manage the temperature and state of charge of the cells.
Watch Munro's video on Rivian. The industry is evolving from tons of little computer boxes and miles of wiring to simplicity and lower cost. EVs are a better situation for more and more people as the tech evolves.
@@jamesvandamme7786 I've watched the video recently. This is the way.
I do love your videos Patrick however battery prices for EV's have been dropping massively and this trend is expected to contine. The price of EV's are already approaching parity with ICE vehicles and so that will only continue improving so expect EV's to be cheaper to buy than their equivilent ICE vehicles within the next 18 months. Quite soon there will be no need for EV rebates to exist but what nobody talks about is the Government Health impacts of having more zero emission vehicles. You can expect ,massive health improvements, cleaner air & lower reliance on middle eastern oil.
It all seems like a very convenient excuse for severe and extreme incompetence throughout the entire management chain of all these car manufacturers.
As a car enthusiast, I'm not looking at any new car for the foreseeable future, regardless if its EV or not.
2018-2020 was peak era of quality.
Physical tactile buttons please, it's not much to ask.
I think the early 2000s are the sweet spot. The cars are reliable enough for 200k+ miles (mines currently at 210k), much less complicated to fix, and have a lot less electronics to break.
R2S will be in production around when you might want to look at a car again.
@franciscodanconia4324
Yes I have a 2010 and a 2018 Volvo, the 2010 is the better car
2018??? 1970 to 2000
@AS-np3yq You don't remember the crummy cars built then.
About 40% of Americans live in apartments, not houses. How are they going to charge their EVs? Drop an extension cord out the window? The cost of installing EV charging points across all the apartment parking lots in America would be astronomical.
If they can't charge at home or work, they will opportunistically charge while they're out and about doing other things. It's not the end of the world.
@@skierpage So you expect them to rely on 'hit or miss' opportunities to charge their EVs? Not much of a plan, better rethink that one.
First we get the 60%. That will take some years. There are options for the others, and they're not impossible and certainly not a reason for giving up. Other places have chargers attached to street lights.
I am sure your number is wrong by a large margin. Maybe 40% rent, but a lot of those rentals are single-family houses. I think it's more like 15% live in apartments, depending on how you define an apartment.
Who buys an ev if they cant charge it at home? Your thinking boggles my mind.
The rap man is back with the latest and most reliable news
Last new car I bought was in 1999. Go used, pay cash, avoid interest. Even now you can get a real nice truck for 20k
Believe it or not, it's the same in the used compact EV market. Very easy to get one $14 - $18K.
Yep.
Yeah the whole debate is disconnected from the reality that most people buy used.
Compounded by the fact that the general public has an uncertainty about the longevity of EVs.
But in fact that uncertainty is what is making the used EV market so cheap. Because the demand is so low.
My conspiracy theory is that it's the auto makers pushing the Longevity propaganda to push people upwards to a new car sale...
Yes, exactly right 👍 I own 4 reliable vehicles all of which I purchased used and paid cash. I haven't had a car loan in over 23 years and I've both bought and sold several vehicles during that time. It's very feasible to buy used automobiles without financing as long as you're not status shopping.
@@SquintyGearsthe longevity conspiracy is actually caused by the chemistry industry adhering to reality where chemical reactions change over repeat use.
I don't think EV'S are killing the auto industry, i think the general economy and the fact money is more worthless than it's ever been is what's killing the auto industry. Basically the gap in income between the richest and the poorest people is what's killing it.
It's hard to determine if EV's are killing the automobile industry since the industry is doing a great job of killing itself in issues not related to EV's like German auto brands conspiring together to halt progress and price reductions and the whole industry's migration to design for obsoletion direction. And lastly, just designing out any excitement, marketing cars that don't excite anyone and that people plain don't want.
Problems in Germany green policies have more to do with closing up nuclear plants and spiking electricity prices.
that's a common misconception, but the reality is that, while price spikes make for very click-baity headlines, the spikes were in fact were extremely short lived, and there was spare capacity on the German electricity grid even at the highest price. The price spikes were so short-lived that the alternative, firing up some gas-powered power stations for a short term, was just not financially viable. Over the coarse of a year, a nuclear power station would not have been economically viable based upon last year's market prices, and you'd get a better ROI from investing in battery power than in nuclear power.. But of course battery power isn't as sexy as nuclear power (in some people's eyes), so even though nuclear power is more expensive, it must be done.
@michaelkoelbl4004 I mean, I'm not upset about not building new ones but about closing the ones that were built and then importing electricity from France made by...
@@michaelkoelbl4004 nuclear power is cheapest if you already have nuclear power plant. Germany shut down nuclear power plant as policy, to please people with irrational fears, they just deducted it as a big loss and thats it. While France meanwhile uses 50 percent+ nuclear power and so on. Nuclear energy is safe when done correctly. Irrational fear are based on fear of radiation and cancer, but cancer in normal people lives usually is related to smoking, drinking etc. Its much much bigger factor... NPP doesn't pollute territory nearby, all waste is safely stored in proper place.
The uk: we want all EVs by 2035!
Also the UK: lets drive up our energy costs to be the highest in europe!
You guys privatized everything now this your results from those mistakes, you could have had national wealth fund like Norway.
@@santostv. the UK has half the oil production of Norway while having ten times as many people. They could infact not have had a national wealth fund like Norway.
@@leojohn1615 I’m not talking about now but in the past maybe it wouldn’t be has big as the Norwegian one but wouldn’t have hurt either.
A third of the world's cars are made in China and they seem to be doing just fine with increased EV sales.
The title should be "Can Western auto manufacturers remain competitive?"
Not with the way China subsidizes them.
I’d say it’s the fact you can’t buy a simple pickup truck for less than $55k these days. They are selling cheap little suv/crossovers for $35k. It’s insane. Who the fuck can afford this shit anymore?
"Microsoft paint" - Dear God, that broke me.
Comparing battery cost to just engine cost is a disingenuous comparison. You need to compare total powertrain cost for ICE (engine, transmission, exhaust, fuel tank, etc.) to EV (battery, e-motor, charger, etc.)
any of those single parts of failure in the ICE engine isn’t like the $20k EV battery that’ll total the vehicle once it’s degraded too much
My ICE car is 12 years old and stills looks and drives great. A 12 year old EV is worth nothing because a new battery costs more than the value of the 12 year old EV with the new battery. What happens when only EVs are being built and all of them become junk when the battery ages out?
@@user-Jamie218 LIES you LIAR! You can just replace a single module of an EV Battery. While the cost of a Hyundai Theta II engine replacement $13,000 if you are lucky and not scammed. EV power trains are soo much easier to work on and require less hours thus cheaper labor cost. A battery repair is mostly likely only required at 10 to 17 years old.
@@chrisc8156 LOL Stop with the misinformation. you do realize many 12 year old 85kwh BEVs currently exist, it's the later Revision C Battery Tesla Model S. Majority of still work perfectly fine with under 20% degradation. Due to majority of the pack still working fine, when the battery pack ages out around 17 years. It will need REPAIRS and replace individual modules. That is much cheaper and not the value of a 12 year old EV. Your silly misinformation comment is just rhetorical question and assertions based on Wilful Ignorance. You have no clue what you are talking about.
@@user-Jamie218 LIES! A Hyundai Theta II engine replacement is $13,000 if you are luck and not scammed. Problematic engines like this need a whole engine replacement, not just a repair fix. Most EV batteries can be REPAIRED or at most replace individual modules. Nothing close to $20,000 in repair cost and much less labor cost than Major ICE and transmission work. "once it’s degraded too much" Nope that is not happening according to real world data. Even old Tesla Model S with 200,000 miles plus are no where near failed battery and only about 20% capacity degradation. When the battery pack does fail and is down to 65% capacity, majority of failed batteries can be REPAIRED. That 35% degradation is due to a failed module blocking flow to other parts of the battery. Once that failed module is repaired it could easily be back to 80% of the capacity. You misinformation is just ignorant rumors.
No EVs are not killing the car market. Politicians are killing the car market.
With inflated retail prices, lack of a charging infrastructure, and nobody to repair a yes EVs are killing the industry
Here in parts of Australia we are about to import LNG for domestic use despite being a massive exporter because of the lack of a national reservation policy. 15 years ago there was a short-lived subsidy to convert petrol cars to LPG and sell dedicated LPG new cars (when we had local auto production) to utilise that domestic production. LPG emits ~20% less carbon per km (even after factoring in its lower energy density and worse economy). Lobbying from the resources industry led to the utterly stupid export focused place we are today, paying to double ship LNG around the world rather than use our own.
@@greebjthat’s like we in the US exporting all the oil we have.
Yes. Chicken tax?....
@@VinceroAlpha What do you mean nobody to repair EVs? Heard that from the same BSer you got the "charging infrastructure" line from? LOL
Tier 2 manufacturers are also receiving US subsidies. I work for a big one that shall not be named. We have received multiple grants from the department of energy worth millions for EV development. We don’t need it. Let the market be free and let those that can’t swim drown as is done in most other free market enterprises. We need to stop paying for rich people’s hobbies and toys. I can easily get a job back on defense where I started if my job goes away.
Moving to evs was always going to be expensive, automakers who didn’t start in earnest a decade ago are now struggling, surprising no one.
Your video description says Jaguar scaling back EV plans! Completely wrong! They have stopped all ICE sales to be ready to be EV only.
11:20 VW had the same issue when they introduced their ID.3. They ended up buying their own cars to avoid a bill from the EU, and sold them as demo cars at a discount.
the politicians are killing all industries. and it is made possible by chinese and russian bribes. We are in war. Understand that!
I don't think there's a lot of trust in VW at the moment after dieselgate. As a car the ID.3 itself is not that interesting either. I do have some faith in their platform but just making different sizes of jellybeans isn't exactly setting the world on fire.
Just went back to LA for the first time in 15 years, for better or worse, everything looks and functions pretty much exactly the same.
I do believe all it takes is a few more year for the US consumers to suddenly discover that the rest of the world are driving EVs with thousand-mile range, practical futuristic features, and cost about 1/2 of the same car they're driving 10 years ago.
I love how factual your reporting is, Patrick. Just a straight infodump and in 25 minutes we get a very good picture of the momentum in the entire industry.
Not to mention that here in the US some of the most supportive state governments aren't putting any investment in the production of electricity itself, which continues to go up in cost. Cart before horse problem.
I thought electricity was delivered by private companies. If they can sell more product, why don't they make the investment to produce and sell more?
@@davecolgan442 in time they would/will in the short term lots of utilities companies are trying to do that and it drives up the price of the required materials considerably and they are being hit with strict green regulations in power production too. Patrick made a great video about increasing grid capacity and the challenges associated some time ago if i remember correctly.
Look up what a joke TVA is. Why would anyone want our government to run anything?😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@davecolgan442 its not nearly as private as other sectors. A lot of municipal and public-private programs operate power plants.
Regulated utilities and private companies build electrical generation and transmission. And they are spending a lot, mostly on wind and solar and now battery storage as well because they're cheap and quick. U.S. Energy Information Administration: "Annual spending by major utilities to produce and deliver electricity increased 12% from $287 billion in 2003 to $320 billion in 2023 as measured in real 2023 dollars".
It needs to be even more to meet the growth in demand from electrification. We'll use a lot less primary energy overall because electricity is more efficient than burning fossil fuels, but we'll need a lot of electricity.
China and most of the world that does not produce oil or oil products is going to go to EV's much sooner than the ICE car makers want. Having to import oil is a national security issue and a major economic drain on these countries.
Look at Australia with it not having much oil or an ICE auto industry. Not importing oil will lessen their dependence on the oil producing countries of the world. Their conversion to solar, wind, and battery storage makes EV's a good fit.
The Chinese are producing the solar panels, wind turbines, and batteries that any country with similar desires can go to get the equipment they need. Even Tesla builds a large part of their export cars and battery systems in China.
It will take time, but like the railroads that converted from coal-steam to diesel-electric locomotives, it will happen.
Drove my first electric car over the holidays when my buddy visited from Montana and was forced to rent a Kia Ionic. He could hardly find a good thing to say about it but for my driving situation I'd take that thing any day of the week.
Could you find anything good to say about any Kia? Not sure you can accurately survey the progress of EV's based on a drive in an Ionic.
If changing over to EV from ICE was a minor inconvenience than it would be happening. I drive ICE because I want to save the planet. EVs or RCEs (Remote Combustion Engines) do the opposite.
You're deluded. Do the math to realize that a 35 mpg gasser will burn through _10 tons_ of dirty gasoline over 120,000 miles. Every recent study concludes that a comparable far more efficient EV (many travel well over 100 miles on the energy in a gallon of gasoline) recharged from the current grid mix has much lower lifetime emissions.
@@skierpage And what becomes of the EV batteries when they expire? There is currently no method in place to remedy this problem. You also fail to mention that EVs are considerably heavier than ICE vehicles resulting in greater wear and tear on the tires, which have to be replaced more frequently. This will require an increase in tire production which is a petroleum-based product.
One of the problems with a ev tax credit is that some of the manufacturers take that credit amount and just add it to the sticker price. It might better to disincent the ICE cars.
That is happening in the UK. It is failing badly look up a UA-cam channel by Barrie Crampton. Basically dealers are having to pretend to sell new EV cars to push up sales numbers and are actually delaying sales of real cars to avoid this £15,000 fine per vehicle. They then try to sell the used EV with less than a hundred miles on it some of these machines were registered 18 months ago and still haven't sold to an actual buyer.
@@Fred-gu6pk LOL Barrie Crampton is a wacko propagandist. Everything he says is just cherry picked out of context numbers to spread a fabricated story. "registered 18 months ago" that was during the chip crisis when demand for cars far outstripped supply. Your silly story is not plausible it's just fabricated nonsense.
They do disincent ICE's. The regulations on them kick that price through the roof and force them to all look like misshapen potatoes.
But they work.
@@Fred-gu6pk EVs ARE real cars.
Trump is talking about giving the incentives to manufacturers instead of consumers. If I have a choice of either power train, same price, the EV is the clear winner.
One of the most important aspects of manufacturing is economies of scale which means the higher the volume, the lower the cost per unit. This is why Tesla makes a ton of money on every EV it sells but the other automakers, which produce EVs at a far lower volume lose a ton of money on every EV sold. As such, legacy auto manufacturers have a chicken-or-egg issue when it comes to making EVs. The more people will buy EVs, the cheaper it will be to produce them.
This seems like an important bit of info to contextualise the government actions highlighted in the video.
@ yeah, it’s just basic economics but seems to be a point that’s lost on most commentators/pundits
While Tesla does have scale, what makes Tesla profitable is selling carbon credits and licensing their supercharger network - otherwise, they would be in the red.
@kevinledgister5252 That is not correct. Through 3Q2024 last year those credits only made up 43% of Tesla's net income. In other words, it would be in the black even without them.
the problem is, eu automakers wanted to step from gasoline to EV, the smarter step was the toyota way, gasoline-hev-ev its more natural for the industry and also for consumers
Yeah what Toyota did was the smartest thing they could have done giving a variety of options out there and seeing what was going to sell the most. I remember all the comments of people saying how Toyota was gonna go out of business if they don’t go full electric and yet here they still sell plenty without the whole electric lineup. you got a lot of delusional people thinking that every single square inch of this country is going to be easy with just an electric transition.
So Tesla Model Y is 4th best selling car in US in 2024. Not bad at all
Will have 2nd spot in China. Has spot in top 5 in EU. And was best selling car in the world last year.
I wanted to buy a used model s cash. I called my insurance company and they told me the insurance would cost close to 8x what my normal insurance would. Clearly I didn’t buy.
You need to find another automobile insurance agent.
tesla insurance was 3x-4x less than competitive quotes from other agencies for my model s, still expensive though
Gas is just still too cheap.
Will you volunteer for $10 a gallon? I’m sure Exxon will love you for that 🤡
Hopefully getting more out there will lower the price.
As an Electrical Engineer, it is blatantly obvious that the people pushing this agenda have no idea how the following work:
1. Mining of the minerals needed (uses an enormous amount of fossil fuels)
2. Refining of minerals into useful raw materials (uses an enormous amount of fossil fuels, needed to generate electrical energy)
3. Manufacturing of all the needed electrical components (mainly batteries)
4. Generation and distribution of electrical energy (and associated losses)...
5. Complexity of the electrical systems needed for properly charging and discharging the battery.
6. Lifecycle of the vehicle, including recyclability of the materials used, life of the critical components (mainly the battery)
7. Potential risk associated with strapping a 1000 lb battery to your vehicle (... fyi: you can use many of the chemicals used in the battery to make fireworks / explosives) and how easily said battery can be damaged
8. It's virtual impossible / not economical to repair the battery after it has been damaged.
9. Useful life of the vehicle (maybe 4 years for an EV vs. 20 years for a well-maintained IC Vehicle)
10... etc etc etc.
Once you understand the big picture, any logical person can conclude that there is a very good reason why EVs are so much more expensive that ICVs... and that there is no way they are better for the environment.
Anyone else notice a wierd transition at 24:42, where he shifts from talking about the UK Labor Party to Germany?
Dude listen carefully on 23 minute, he says "around the world", so he just gives examples in different countries
Hears "all of which are coming next year", bursts out laughing, spewing coffee all over keyboard. It's those dry punchlines that make this so watchable!!
Last I checked the 4th best selling vehicle in the US is an EV and it's made in the USA for a nice profit. The Worlds best selling vehicle is also a profitable EV. The rest of the US auto industry just needs to step it up.
did you watch the vid where tesla sales are flat or just like saying things to look smart
Profit for Tesla comes from all the other industries they are involved in along with selling carbon credits.
Bring back some of the classic basic around town economical cars. Hell I'll even wind my own windows.
Fwiw, I bought model 3 in 2018 and it has turned out to be an extraordinarily good car. My wife drove it from California to Massachusetts and through snowstorms that closed the freeway.
Sure, on a flat bed
@@Jadenclemens
I don't know if the joke works based on the wording.
If it was his wife "rode" from California...etc
Then - on a flat bed would work.
But he specifically said "drove"
...
That's cute, now make it cost 20K new so the rest of us can buy it.
@@Jadenclemens Stop with the insane LIES!
Cannon Ball Run with multiple failed attempts at a new EV record is 42 Hours. While the new EV record in a 2025 Porsche Taycan is 39 hours 29 minutes.
No one practically needs to drive coast to cost in 42 hours or less. No flat bed required.
Right. Lol.
25:58-26:18 I just love it how sometimes you manage to imply so much without actually even remotely claiming anything. It's all in the wording.
"10% of the car cost is ICE engine."
Wait, so I have been spending 90% on dead weight when they boast about cool engine technology?
There's more to the car than the engine, but yes, a lot of your money has been profit margin.
@@Dave_the_Dave not really cars manufactures have very low margins.
@@RamsesTheFourth* used to have
@@RamsesTheFourthtrucks carry much higher margins for the dealers.
They are doing some very dubious parsing of what the “engine” is to arrive at that number of 10%. Especially for higher performance cars, there’s a LOT of extra connected subsystems they have to exclude to get it down to that number
Another reason Tesla sales are down is because people are waiting for a refreshed Model Y. I myself was debating to wait a year to get the new one pr not. I decided not to. But I know a lot of people personally waiting for it, to be revealed at least, before they purchase an EV
I will buy an EV whenever all of the following is true:
0. Purchase price not considerably higher than segment equivalent ICE, options in smaller dimension non-luxury segments.
1. Equal or better range than comparable segment and price ICE.
2. Broad, reliable and reasonably priced charging coverage in my region.
3. Proven long term (and maintenance-economical) service life of many EV drivetrains.
4. Depreciation comparable or better than ICE.
5. Well-established battery recycling infrastructure that makes environmental sense.
6. High safety factor battery design that practically eliminates the possibility of catastrophic failure (e.g. fires that are more dangerous than an ICE vehicle).
Probably the only reason I would compromise on any of these is if ICE fuel becomes so expensive or unobtainable (for some reason) that the economic argument is overwhelming.
So you don't care about the environmental harm from burning through all that gasoline. What is it with all these anti-EV posts doing this weird "I don't care" reverse virtual signalling?
Your objections will be met. Just don't buy another polluting gasser in the meantime. A few points:
The dozen startups planning to recycle EV batteries are all waiting for enough to actually fail so they will ramp up operations.
EVs catch fire at far lower rates than metal boxes containing gallons of flammable fuel.
@@skierpage I don't drive a 'gas guzzler' and generally don't drive much at all (within the limitations of where I live). I also have only bought second hand, reducing manufacturing emissions.
I don't care about 'virtue signalling', I care about not sacrificing quality of life for no particularly appreciable reason. If you give me an EV that is superior to ICE, I will drive it. In the meantime I will let rich people willing to suffer the shortcomings of early adoption cover the development costs.
@@BruceLeedar you're repeating yourself. You don't think reducing the environmental harm from your driving is an "appreciable reason." Whatever.
The roast on Jaguar 😂
auto makers should focus on making the toyota corolla of EVS. Cheap, reliable, no bells and whistles. No point in electrifying their entire lineup before EVs are fully adopted
to recoup investment they need margin and profit. Small sedans have lowest margin and low profit = if you don't sell millions of them they turn out to be losing overall, not even break even. There is a reason why manufacturers stop producing small sedans.. Toyota itself is not upgrading a lot of sedan models.
Only if you make them RWD.
"All of which are coming next year..."
hahahaha Good one.
The remaining two US automakers both drastically reduced their powertrain engineering staff over the past five years in anticipation of the move to EVs. They laid off or pushed retirement on *lots* of engineers, many with decades of experience designing, manufacturing and servicing IC engines and auto transmissions. That's not a knowledge base you can just snap your fingers and recreate. They're in a world of hurt if they need to go back to designing new ICE and hybrid vehicles. That talent is gone.
If only Ford and GM would grow a pair and explain to buyers all the ways an EV is better than a gasser. They're scared of Trump, they're scared of misinformed buyers, they're scared of dealers who still want to sell gassers... and then complain that their growing EV sales are not as high as they forecast.
@@skierpage Foreign manufacturers are more afraid of Trump then either Fortd or GM ... and they'd better be.
@@skierpage You're delusional.
@@skierpage Personally I'm done with 3rd party dealers when it comes to our next new vehicle.
Love it when a small country in Europe is put up as an example of success for some aspect of living. Most of those countries are a similar size as one of those smallest US states. No comparison in ability to implementations due to population, culture, distances in travel, and major differences in climate or physical characteristics.
Norway's population is smaller than Houston's.
Size doesn't matter, most people don't travel more than a few kilometers regardless of how big the rest of the country is.
The math surrounding EVs being better for the environment is seriously flawed. EVs require expanding the electrical grid, massively compounding the resources needed for grid installation and maintenance. EVs use an unsustainable amount of rare earth metals. EVs are much heavier than ICEs, therefore increasing the amount of energy used to accellerate. The braking system similarly is less efficient and expends more materials, creating more particulate pollution. EVs wear out tires 30% faster and have a higher chance of fatality in accidents due to their mass. EVs cost more money which means people will have to work more and drive more just to pay for them if they can even afford them or the time wasted at a charging station. EVs are sensitive to temperature, the battery durabillity and efficiency will decrease in extreme weather. It takes at least 2 years of driving an EV just to offset the carbon footprint of producing an EV compared to an ICE. So, if your heavy, fast accellerating, slow decellerating EV gets in a wreck in the first 2 years, you just did more to increase global warming than if you had bought and driven an ICE... and that's not even considering the strip mining, and deep earth mining required for EV materials. The increased wear and tear on roadways due to the extra weight per vehicle and the amount of carbon dioxide involved in paving, or the cost? The real winners in the EV game are the utillity companies, mining companies, tire manufacturers, chinese battery plants, and credit facillities. The consumer and the planet will just have to put out even more...
What is the carbon cost of additional paving? How likely is any EV to be destroyed by an accident in the first two years? How much energy does a heavy EV lose to acceleration when it has regenerative braking, and how does that compare to an ICE SUV?
"EVs require expanding the electrical grid"
The electrical grid is always expanding, EV boom or not. ICEs also require infrastructure. Drilling, refining, transport of gasoline is a globe spanning system.
"The braking system is less efficient and uses more materials"
False, regenerative braking is just the electric motors used to move the vehicle working as generators.
Beyond that, EVs use the same brakes as ICEs do. Which use dirt common materials.
Regenerative braking actually reduces wear on the normal breaks and spreads less particulates due to not solely repying on friction.
@@CandleWisp Yes, but the infrastructure for ICEs already exist and I don't think people realize how much the electrical grid will have to be expanded to accomodate BOTH AI/datacenters AND BEV's. This isn't a simple plug and play revolution and it will actually accelerate global warming and resource exhaustion while impoverishing the middle and lower class.
@@scottotterson3978 FYI Concrete and asphalt paving is extremely carbon intensive (about 1 Ton CO2 per lane mile). Regenerative braking still relies on an increase in tire friction. The mass of a BEV is about a ton more than a comparable ICE. You can't cheat physics. BTW Lithium and Neodymium mining are extremely bad for the environment. So the trade off really isn't about benefitting the environment, it's about the amount of money captured by capital markets via tech disruption, and the amount of credit consumers will need to afford transportation and rising prices.
@@CandleWispIt's true that the grid is always expanding, but now you have EVs, AI, Crypto, and climate effects all happening at the same time and our current grid is often challenged as it is. California has been adopting BEV's and now they are experiencing rolling blackouts...and that was before the wildfires. Look, I think it is a valid argument to say that radical adoption of EVs at this point is a bit ridiculous. It's a very hard sell to consumers who are already in a crunch. And the technology is extremely bad for the environment. FCEVs, PHEVs, HICEs or even ammonia engines seem more sesible to me. We already use most of the materials used in those technologies and it won't require a major overhaul of our grid.
When I can buy an electric car that is affordable, that I can jump in and drive 700k's and know I will be able to charge it in a few minutes, drive it through deep potholes and it isn't written off and own it for 20 years without having to replace the motors and batteries etc. then I will consider. When there is full honest transparity regarding the environmental and human cost. Until then I will keep my regular car.
i am a business analyst and a trained mechanic. Weird I know. After driving a Tesla for 10 years and 228,000 miles (380,000 km), my battery is still 87% and the car drives as new. Anyone who thinks ICE will be competitive in 2030 is fooling themselves .. and I used to tune muscle cars! EVs are just getting started.
ICE wont be competitive, because it will be taxed to the ground, not because market demand
The correct answer (and title for the video) should be "Is Regulation Killing the Car Industry." Quick answer is yes.
I live in Norway and i need to say this: everything you said about the Norwegian automotive situation is spot on and 100 percent correct 👍
How do the EVs do in minus 15C ? In Chicago and the snow belt last Winter the batteries all died. Do you keep your cars in heated garages?
@@johnwright9372 Mine does just fine in -20C.
@@johnwright9372 the EV "problem" in Chicago wasn't due to the cars themselves, it was due to the charging stations being is high states of disrepair. If you charge at home, this is literally never a problem, even in cold Temps.
@@johnwright9372 Apparently, they do fine in much colder places. You lose range and waste more power using the car but that is pretty much all I heard about it. Every time I hear news like that from the US I suspect a few owners left their car to die at 0% charge and permanently bricked their battery and then the local media cashed in on it with some good click bait articles.
Edit: To go into a bit more detail: Most cars have a way to heat the battery so a garage is not needed. If the battery is empty it can not heat itself and this would result in serious problems. Large parts of Europe can hit -15C in cold winters. If this was a problem we would hear about it every winter
@@johnwright9372 They read the manual and know how to precondition the battery. Can't expect Americans to be that literate.
Trying to artificially make demand for EVs is a loosing battle.
As is trying to make ICE cars more efficient by attaching pricier parts (turbos, mild hybrid systems) that will fail faster and cost the customer even more money over it's lifetime. I'll take EV's in the long run.
Perhaps the car industry relics are killing themselves. Mediocre products means people will move to better brands for EVs.
There's no perhaps about it.
You cannot go green when your numbers are red.
Clear and factual video
Many thanks
When EVs are the same costs yet running costs are much lower, the choice is clear. We are near the tipping point.
You don’t think Tesla's declining sales have anything to do with Elon’s very public political opinions being in direct contrast with the type of people who'd typically buy an electric car?
You would buy a car from a facist?
No. All car companies struggled to deliver growth last year. It’s not Tesla specific.
@@greg_289 Tesla in particular also has this problem where it hasn't had a new model or a meaningful redesign in a very long time, except a single example that doesn't exactly help the brand's image. It went from the shiny new auto company to the auto company with no shiny new things that anyone wants very quickly. The Model 3 can be a well-loved vehicle all it wants, but the market is changing, and Tesla isn't.
@@deggy42 The current version of the model 3 is nothing like it was a few years ago. Upcoming model Y is significantly different to this years model. They just don’t change the name or make radical exterior changes, that’s all. Model Y was the best selling car in the world in 2024.
@ I'm not arguing that the car is identical. Other automakers introduce new models and reimagine old ones. When Tesla does that, we get... the Cybertruck. That makes people less inclined to spring for a new Tesla - lots of people buy a car knowing that for a while, folks will look at them and say "hey, that's the new _____".
New models are good marketing, they indicate that a brand is evolving, and they nudge owners of older models into looking longingly at the new shiny. Adding new sensors and software to the Model 3 might improve functionality, but it doesn't catch eyes.
4:00 The look on that dude's face about sums it up. If that was a real V8 exhaust, you would see joy. Here, you see a man wondering exactly what is going on and, perhaps, if he ever accepts this nonsense, wondering how much it would cost to replace a blown exhaust speaker.
This guy just lied. The Tesla model Y sold over 400,000 vehicles. So it beat the Chevy Silverado and the Toyota Rav 4.
1.19 million battery electric vehicles were sold in 2023 in the US
1.30 million battery electric vehicles were sole in 2024 in the US
So demand for electric vehicles grew in 2024.
If the demand drops without government subsidies then it’s not really a demand isn’t it?
Thats just absolute numbers, how much % of the market the sales are making?
"Which appears to have been designed using Microsoft Paint.
I didn't know paint had gradients now. Brave new world
Could this be a blessing in disguise? If there was any industry that needs a bit of a shake up it would be the car industry.