5R rifling? Some thought and info
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- Опубліковано 29 сер 2024
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This is purt near the greatest channel for actual long range knowledge....thank you very kindly, Mark and Sam!!!🇨🇦.
Thanks Chris, Cheers
If I could get to Australia and mark held like week long classes I'd pay to go in a heart beat.
Frank Bartlein has stated on forums several times that 5R is no more/less accurate than other forms of rifling. But he does believe it distorts the bullet jacket less and may help a thin jacket from blowing up.
Cheers Steve, thanks
The British switched to 2R during ww2 with no loss in accuracy so anyway you impart that spin to a projectile is better than not
@@danieldillon6005 and the Americans saw the same thing with 2 grove in the Springfield m1903.
@@danieldillon6005 anything to get ppl to believe what they done was a good decision. Look at the match world. 3G is the minimum you will see. There is a reason for that.
The Springfields with star barrels had 3 grooves.
The barrel making process has always intrigued me. It amazes me how they maintain trueness as well as they do. Thanks for the input.
Cheers Tim, thanks
l have just had two IBI 5r barrels fitted to rifles, my smith said after the first that he has not seen a truer barrel on his lathe including all the big name barrels, after the second he said it was not a once off that the second was the same if not better, that comes down to the maker and the quality of their work, they both shoot very well, no run in needed and are very are very clean barrels,
l found these barrels worked better with hot loads and heavy bullets, l could not get light bullets to shoot but would l buy again, Hell yes ;)
Thanks Mark! I always come away from your presentations better informed and a deeper understanding of the topic you are presenting. Cheers mate, and cheers to Sam!
Thanks Steve, we try, lol, glad you liked, Cheers
You always save me time and money Thank You and as a retired mechanic I love your day job.
Thanks Gary, all the best.
First time I've come across the term "5R". Introduction and explanation with comparison in one very informative video. Brilliant 👌
Cheers
Cheers
Thank you Mark. That was very educational. My .22LR Benchrest rifle is a 2 groove and is a tack driver. I have an off hand .22LR that is a 6 groove and shoots just as well. When I was looking for my .270 WIN barrel in a 1:7 twist for the Berger 170 grain bullet it was offered in a 5R. I didn't find anything bad info about it before ordering so I went with it and am very happy with it.
Yep, sounds all about right, glad you liked, the video, Cheers
what i love about the 5R is the time it takes to be cleaned....so fast
Cheers
I like your general assessment: “a good barrel is a good barrel”. I don’t think anyone can argue that it’s the results that count. 👍🏻. And what better person to test them than a guy who enjoys hitting steel at 2k+ yds 👌🏻😎
Thanks Man, Cheers
Mark thank you for the insight. I imagine most people think if it works better, then for them it may work better. That goes with almost anything. Kind of like mind over matter. But if you don't mind it doesn't matter. My opinion, not worth much, use what ever works for you. Keep up the good work.
Stay safe. Take care. Have fun. 😎
Yes, agreed, cheers Gary, all the best.
Just wanted to say I found this channel a couple weeks ago and I must say its awesome, love the shooting videos but the information videos are just as good. 👍👍
Thanks Man, Cheers
Some people think the 5R is the end all be all...I think it's the quality of the barrel and a good manufacturer that make a barrel what it is. Thanks for another great video.
Cheers again, Man, thanks
Good job Mark. Everything you talked about was spot on and presented in a thorough way everyone should hopefully understand. I’m glad you particularly touched on the differing of processes and materials in bullets, powders and barrels over the years with a common principal or goal if you will. I must admit I have a preference for cut barrels, but I have button barrels on some custom hunting rifles that are tack drivers. Well done.
Cheers Aaron, glad you liked, thanks man, all the best.
Cleaning you say,dang I always thought the next bullet did that.Chamber and throat for me.
Lol, cheers
Mark, you said it all a good barrel is a good barrel, and a bad barrel is a bad barrel.
I have only one 5R rifle and it does shoot "yes ", I also have a match barrel regular
rifling does it shoot " Yes ". I guess I've been lucky, as I have never had a really " Bad "
barrel, once you find what it likes !!
All barrel makers survive on their products producing great results, sometimes it takes
just a little more money, sometimes it doesn't......Thanks.
Yep, bad barrels are very rare, Cheers
Thanks Mark. I appreciate your knowledge, experience, wisdom and your sharing it all with us.
Cheers Dave, glad you liked, thanks
From my experience the people who are most stridently partisan regarding any particular process and/or brand tend to not be good enough at actually shooting to realistically take advantage of the miniscule supposed advantages of the process and/or brand that they so vociferously insist is so good that it is the only worthwhile thing to use.
Always a great video. You guys' channel has seriously improved my firearms and shooting knowledge base immensely. Thank you so much. I tell all the guys at work about your channel as well as many of my customers who I think would appreciate it. I am hoping buy one of your muzzle breaks this August.
Yes we sure try Man, glad you liked, and thanks for that, Cheers
My experience is that people latch on to things and buzz words. The "tactical crowd" that are not soldiers, not law enforcement and not 1187 Federal Agents are the worst of the bunch! If the US Army uses Mike Rock 5R rifling on it's bolt action sniper rifle it must be the best. Never mind that they have used other companies and other forms of rifling before that and after that! Eventually they used Remington hammer forged 5R barrels. Douglas comes to mind. For a long time all these tactically nuts used Douglas XX barrels.
I use what ever match grade barrel I can get the best price on. I have barrels from Bergara, Brux, Preferred, Lothar Walther and many other's I have them in 4140, 4150, 416R what ever Lothar Walther uses and it does not matter! In fact I much prefer carbon steel over SS.
Thank you Mark for this presentation on rifling. With rifling it is personal; one has to be happy with the results. If I remember correctly Mark the Smith & Wesson .357 Registered Magnums were always 5 Groove and 5 Land left hand twist; beautifully lapped workmanship. When I worked for John Martz the Luger carbine maker we mostly used 4 Groove and 4 Land rifling for .30 Luger while with 9 mm used 6 Groove and 6 Lands. Mark If you have access to the old .455 Webley automatic pistol it had an odd rifling that was radiused up to the land and was very well lapped. That brings me to another observation which is this; if you're going to lap the bore one needs to make sure that your final dimension on cutting or Hammer forging or button rifling has to be slightly undersized by certain amount so you can lap up to the final dimension leaving a very highly polished, mirror finish on the inside of the barrel.
Cheers Cameron, thanks
Thanks for all the rifling visuals which helps explain what each rifling profile looks like inside a barrel. As you said the different processes on how rifling is done, the grade of steel, forged barrel stresses, cut vs button rifling, annealing to correct the stressing in the forging process of the barrel’s steel. Also the hardness of the projectile changes the behavior. There are so many variables to consider that it can make your head spin, lol. It would take so many different variations of all these factors and would be extensive testing of so many combinations.
Cheers Man, thanks you
Mark is a wealth of deep knowledge, & that almost requires one to be a bit obsessive, so his wordiness is worth the time. :-)
Cheers Man
Can confirm! I shoot 300WM through a 5R barrel, and while I've not had enough barrels to know for sure, I would say it didn't naturally shoot better than the 6 groove 300wm I had before it. Spent nearly 18 months working up a load until I could get it down to 1/2" groups. It shoots lights out now, but it certainly wasn't super easy to get there.
Cheers Jason, thanks
The question is , did your load get better....or did you improve as a shooter in those 18 months?
Or where you already a good shooter with magnums.?
@@prone_wolf8871 My previous gun was an ultralight hunting rig with a Remington XHR barrel. I fiddled with the load for probably 1000 rounds before swapping out for the 5R. The 5R rig currently weighs in at 27 lbs. I think I had gotten used to the kick, and it wasn't affecting my shots too badly at that point, but after the switch, I had to restart load development. I was using hunting projectiles, but as I decided I liked ELR better than hunting I changed to heavier match bullets. The 18 months was all load development for the 5R but I can't get to the range more than about once a month, so it's not like it was really intense work. In short, I'd like to think I was already magnum proof, but who knows, sometimes I STILL flinch when I leave the safety on and I'm expecting it to go. My best group with a 300WM now is at .264" @100yd.
I can not even tell you how many groves and lands my custom barrels have? I tell the barrel maker what bore size, twist, materials I want and dimensions if not industry standard like a tighter than standard 30cal I want I let them decided how to do it. I do not care how many lands it has or the shape of the lands as long as it shoots. I am not willing to pay the premium most want for 5R. The only 5R barrel I own is on a factory rifle that came with 5R rifling from the factory. Just like I do not like paying the premium for 416R SS when it is actual inferior in almost every way to plane Jane carbon steel.
Steyr Mannlicher barrels are cold hammer forged with 4 lands. Steyr Mannlicher has a fine reputation for accuracy. As with any process, the level of competency and attention applied to the process determines the quality of the outcome. To say that one type of rifling is best is, as you pointed out, a matter of marketing.
Thanks Man, Cheers
Outstanding video! Thank you for sharing your knowledge on barrels Mark, a very informative 20 minutes
Thanks Paul, glad you liked, Cheers
Spoke with a couple of well-regarded 'smiths here in the states about this. General opinions were:
1.) 5 lands/grooves are more prone to chatter than even number of lands/grooves because of the uneven forces on the chamber reamer. Very similar to your illustration about the effects on the bullet at 4:43. While this is not necessarily true for the bullet, it's very true for the chamber reamer and induces chatter. Some smiths here have 5 flute reamers just for 5 groove barrels.
2.) R profile offers some very slight advantages to gas seal, but not much else.
3.) The reason barrels are easier to clean have nothing to do with the number of grooves or profile, but rather the hand lapped finish that most good barrel makers put in their barrel.
Thanks for the great content. Love these discussions!!
Thanks Man, glad you liked, Cheers
I really love the no fuss common logic approach to your shooting setup mark.
There is far to much craziness out there at the moment with gear. It more comes back to how things work for you. Less is more sometimes
Just getting the basics down.
Yep, Cheers Chris, thanks
I always thought the 5R was a bit of a gimmick, no better nor worse than the 6 groove or any other type of rifling. Always look forward to and enjoy your videos!
Cheers Man, thanks
I agree! A good barrel is a good barrel!
Thanks Mark very interesting session you answered a lot things I have Been wondering about for a long time , thanks again Steve .
Thanks Steve, Cheers
Great info and explanations - thank you so much for sharing Sir :)
Thanks Oddur, cheers mate all the best.
The Whitworth Rifle Had a Unique Style of Polygonal Rifling That In It’s Day During The US Civil War Could Stabilize Long Projectiles and Was Considered A Sniper Rifle of The 1860’s I Wonder Why No One Has Tried It With Modern Technology 😎 Great info Mark I Never Heard of 5R Rifling Till You Mentioned It
Thanks Chris, cheers
You can buy polygonal barrels today. They are rare though. Lothar Walther makes them and so did Pac-Nor off the top of my head. You freq. run into polygonal rifling on modern semi-auto pistols. Polygonal rifle barrels clean far easier and deform the jacket of the bullet less. I have been told that they like more loads than any other type of bullet and will hold their accuracy longer. The down side seems to be that compared to other forms of rifling they do not tend to print the tightest groups. So you see them more on hunting rifles, varmint rifles and on tactical competition rigs where the group size is not as important because shooting is prone or in odd positions. So a lot of these guys value not having to clean as often, cleaning being easier and longer total accurate life of the barrel. All of that about polygonal barrels is 2nd hand info that I am just repeating I have no experience with after market polygonal rifle barrels!
Nice. I just purchased a 5R barrel, I bought a 12R around 1978, best shooting lever gun at the time, well, that's what I was told, I was also told R stood for right hand twist, because those twisted New Yorkers are lefties.
Lol, thanks Steve, Cheers
A good barrel with the right twist for the bullet I'm wanting to run is all I care about. I have rifles with 5R rifling and some old guns that shoots 1 hole groups that I don't even know what kind of rifling it has. If the gun shoots good then it's good... LOL Great video brother keepem coming!!
Cheers Dan, thanks man
another excellent lecture! thank you
Cheers Ron
In the airgun world, FX has learned how to make superior barrels to the competition. They swage the rifling with a press from the outside around a mandrel on the inside of the blank. Not the same as hammer forging. It's one continuous pressing action. The result is an extremely smooth interior to the barrel. Might not work on centerfire rifles due to barrel thickness. It might if using carbon wrapping, but I don't know of anyone doing it that way for powder burners. Look into FX Smooth Twist and Smooth Twist X barrels and you can find some images and videos out there.
Yeh, well a little the same and a little different, very different forces also, Cheers
That would be a cheaper, slower, and inferior way of basically doing hammer forging! If it works for airguns so be it. They are marketing it as if it is a different process but in reality it is the same basic process. The same sort of force is being imparted. You are starting with a large hollow blank on a mandrell and forcing metal from the outside towards the inside forming around a mandrel. It would not matter if they used magic or alien gravity device they are forcing metal from outside to inside around a mandrel. All that matters is they are getting the result they want which is an accurate barrel! Just like Broach cutting barrels it is cut rifling down in 1 pass using super expensive broaches. Last it was done wide scale on rifles was Germany WWII and the old Olympic Arms Company that I think went under int he 1990's and was latter bought and brought back in a limited shadow of it's former self. No one ever mentions Broach Cut but it is mass production cut rifled.
Well said! Thanks 👍🏾
Cheers
Easy way to see the difference look at polygonal rifleing and 5R side by side very informative video definitely
yep, Cheers
Thanks Mark 👍
Cheers
As always a great video! Have a great day!!
Cheers Tim
Very interesting, thanks Mark! Cheers!
Cheers Man, thanks
Would love to hear you expand on your clean/light cleaning approach.
A least a couple of videos, years ago, will do again in the future, Cheers
If you search it hes done videos shouldn’t be hard to find
Great explanation of rifling types.
Thanks Ted
this may be a better option:
Button rifling is an older method that has proven itself over the years. It provides normally better than average accuracy. Single point is the slowest and most difficult method but done properly results in the highest quality barrel.
Cheers Randall, all the best.
Great information mate, keep the dream alive
Cheers Tim
So that's what 5R rifling is! Thanks mate😃👍
Cheers
The best barrel in the world must be a structured, heavy, carbon fiber, fluted, cold hammer forged, 5R according to my Google research
Lol, yeh, Cheers
Especially when it’s bedded in gypsum kryptonite.🍻
You forgot nitriding as well haha
Don’t forget cryogenically treated. After a while you start imagining it takes a wizard or witch doctor to make a rifle shoot. I’m glad Mark has this channel and sets things straight from time to time.
@@aaronbuckmaster7063 hand lapped by virgins, stress relieved in a volcano, bead blasted with asteroid dust collected by a space exploration prob, harmonically tuned in a quartz crystal vacuum chamber and blessed by the Dalaih Lama himself.
And still can't get it to shoot
Every manufacturer needs to do this
Cheers
Someone else may have said it, but I personally think the biggest benefit is the gentler angle of the lands (which can also help during cleaning "somewhat") but because when the rifling engraves onto the bullet it's less of a "cut" and a little more of a "squeeze or swage" which can (but is not guaranteed to) help prevent as severe of a loss of B.C. because any deformation of the outer jacket is going to impact your B.C.
Is it the difference between a good rifle and a bad one? No certainly not, but if it doesn't cost you anything extra (that will depend on manufacturer) then it's not going to hurt.
I like 5r and one company in the US that makes VERY affordable rifles uses 5r rifling and has actually built a really good reputation for accuracy that doesn't seem probable at their price: Ruger
I have a Ruger American chambered in 7mm-08 that can reliably shoot 1/2 MOA with good handloads which is amazing for a $400 rifle (the stocks suck so you'll want to upgrade that and there aren't tons of options, but the barrels are actually REALLY good)
And as for the "longer barrel life" with cold hammer forged barrels, that's "technically" true.
I have shot many more rounds through CHF AR barrels before needing to replace them when compared to cut or button rifles barrels. I say it's only "technically" true because I think powder volume and how "overbore" the cartridge you're shooting is. I think smaller more modest cartridges benefit more from CHF barrels than big magnums would
Cheers
I’ll add one thing to your comment. During the CHF process, the surface metal of the bore actually flows onto the mandrel; as in liquifies. Even with water soluble oil spraying the barrel blank. This was from a doc that filmed at the CZ factory in the Czech republic. They are REALLY tooled up there, as is Ruger, I hope.
Enjoyed the video and subscribed.
Thanks !
Thanks Man, Cheers
Thank you!
Cheers
EXCELLENT video full of good info
Cheers Man, thanks
my take is that after having three IBI 5R barrels fitted they shoot every bit as good as any other
these IBI barrels are a true "match barrel" and all of these barrels, a 6.5x284, 6mm dasher and 22 dasher like to use heavy for calibre bullets run very fast
as you said though Mark the salesman tries to make them something they are not and they are as good as anything else but l am not saying better, my smith did say that these IBI barrels are the straightest barrels he has ever had on his lathe, saying the first may have been a one off but they were all the same
the reason l went for these barrels was cost as l had rejected a couple of Australian barrels for problems shown with a bore scope and getting international made barrels was very expensive,
l paid $399 for each of these barrels and vouch for their authentic as a true "match grade Barrel"
Cheers Man, thanks
5R barrels are a marketing ploy. They are also just button rifled barrels. There is a barrel maker in Payson, Az, Schneider, that makes button rifled barrels that the major purchaser is the U.S. Govt. Hammer forged barrels, once upon a time, lacked the accuracy demanded by LR shooters. That has also changed! Now, not saying that factory hammer forged barrels can compete with custom built barrels in competition, but they make the rifles affordable, and have decent accuracy. Nothing beats a CUT rifled barrel. But we have to be willing to pay for the precision made cut barrels!
Cheers
Ruger 5R barrels are CHF.
@@johngeddes7894 Yes sir, I concede.
And Bartlein Barrels are mostly single cut 5R rifling, and hand lapped . Bartlein supplies barrels to most of the best competitive shooters. 66% some years, 35% more recently, but that’s still more than double of the nearest barrel maker.
Great info!
Cheers
Hi Mark
Boots Obermyer I think you’re referring to. He’s been around a long time as long as me I’m nearly 80 maybe more and had other barrel claims from way way back in several journals and also a mention I think in C S Landis book 22 Caliber rifle shooting which was what got me into high intensity centre fires in 1969
Thanks Derek, Cheers
Quite a few militaries have tested hammer forged vs button cut. The conclusion was typically that hammer forged lasted longer if you trashed the barrels when they failed to meet military accuracy standards of 4-5 MOA. Most shooters will toss a barrel long before that; if they even shoot enough to wear a barrel at all. First 10k, at least, rounds not really a noticeable difference. Take that with a grain of salt, because I am referring to tests done primarily in the 1950's in NATO countries only.
Cheers
I had a 5R barrel on a factory Savage 223 and could not get it to shoot. Sold it and put on a longer fast twist barrel and that one shoots bug holes. Maybe I was not patient enough with load development. Seems like a good idea but it's not for me.
cheers Man, thanks
Mark, back in the day 1880's Remington Arms made barrels for their military contracts for their Rolling Block single shot rifles, with 5 groove barrels. It seemed the leading edge of the lands had a traditional square cornered groove cut and the tail end had a radius cut made up so the paper wrap around the bullet would not cut itself off of the bullet and separate from the bullet while it was being driven down the barrel. I wonder if the Russians had something similar.
Yes, the rifle barrel world have been designing and evolving to do the best for what they need for a long time, Cheers George thanks
I think it more important on how well the barrel maker does his job than the number of groves
Cheers
I understand the whole copper equilibrium concept, but it seems like cleaning the carbon out would lead to inconsistencies also. Is there no carbon equilibrium? What is your reason for cleaning it out? Thanks! Love the channel.
May go into another video on cleaning sometime, but as said, not something I do much of, Cheers
Great video
cheers Paul, thanks man
Firearm education at its best. I was hung on every word.
Thanks Colin, Cheers
I've actually shot with Boots. I'm not sure what his real name is, or if anyone else knows what it is. The one thing I do know, is if he shows up for day 2 of an F-Class match, then bad things are gonna happen like high winds, storms, and it's gonna happen when you don't want it to. I thought the old guys were just giving him a hard time (he's an old-timer too), however, as he drove up everyone who knew him were like, "Oh no, Boots is back for Day 2. Lord, something bad is gonna happen. Anytime Boots shows up for Day 2, bad shit goes down." Sure enough, during Match 2, Relay 1 the heavens proved 'em right. It didn't stop blowing and raining for the rest of that match, then we had high humidity which made it impossible for anyone to clean any match. He's a really nice guy and very knowledgeable. There were several big names there for that one. Danny Biggs, Mike Francis, Boots, etc., etc. So cool to hang out with them and just chew the fat while picking their brains with all the weird questions I have. In all transparency, I prefer 3 grooves for 6mm target and 4-groove for 7mm to any other profile. I've shot 5R, 6, 3, & 4-groove. I have shot cut, button, & hammer forged. Button and cut are about the same in accuracy and precision. I've seen a little longer life out of button, and that may be due to several factors including how the button changes the structure of the steel there at the initial 0.1" of steel from the bore surface. Hammer forged no doubt causes the highest number of failures from a QA perspective.
Awesome, sounds like a rare day, all the best, Cheers
I always think if whatever is in question is vastly better competitive shooters would be using it across the board, they're game requires keeping up with any advantages.
Cheers
Thank you Mark.
Could you do a video about the amount of spin compared to bullet weight? How fast is fast enough and can you spin it too fast?
Depends on more than the weight, so use the manufactures spec's, generally listed on the box, the item details on the site, or ask at the store, Cheers
With too much twist and pushing muzzle velocities, you can separate the jacket out at about 25-50m.
@@bonefrog7930 Berger “Brian Litz” did do testing on this, there is info on their UA-cam regarding separation of jackets due to bullet construction and jacket integrity.
But from what I’m aware of it’s not something to be concerned of if your just the average shooter and not pushing your gear past it’s design. ( most of us anyway )
5 n a half is the new 6
Lol
Damnit… only a couple min in and I realize bought a bartlein 5R barrel… mark doesn’t like it.. now I gotta switch…
Ah no, never said that, still good rifling, just not particularly better than, Lol....Cheers
A good barrel is a good barrel, regardless if cut or button, or the number of grooves or the maker.........if it's a "hummer" it's to be treasured.
Yep, cheers
I’ve always kinda thought 5R is nice to see on less expensive rifle. If someone is bragging on their barrel as a feature set they probably(hopefully) gave it a little TLC. Once you get a hand lapped custom barrel, it’s all just splitting hairs basically.
Cheers Bob.
Dang. You've done it. Now I'm looking for my first ELR rifle. I was thinking .308 or .338 caliber. 338 Norma Mag has my eye...
Lol, Cheers
Barrett "boots" Obermeyer was the barrel maker that made 5R popular.
Cheers Tim, thanks
Two things, if I may:
I vaguely recall that the WW1 Springfield rifles were 2 groove and they worked really well for Sgt. York. 😁
Second, how do feel about gain twist for long, fast (3k fps+ mv) bullets?
Yes, even been a 1 land, just a test, but that worked too, as for gain twist, maybe take look at our video on that, Cheers
@@markandsamafterwork Thanks. I'll search out your video on gain twist.
ua-cam.com/video/lWohyYEn-wc/v-deo.html this should help, Cheers
mark i'm after the shirt like you are wearing exactly the same colours ' looking for your merch link ?
Below the video, in our store, Cheers
Pleased can you make a vid over your way of cleaning a rifle barrel. Thanks for all your work and greetings from Germany, Toni
We have a couple old vids on that, search the channel, cheers
this will help ua-cam.com/video/lWohyYEn-wc/v-deo.html
Have a barrel manufacturer who will only do 3 buttons on 1:8 twisy for .270 - nice to know why.👍🏻I'm planning for 175 grain Sierras, and they call for 1:8 minimum twist.
Cheers
Odd grove numbers seem easier to tune your hand loads to
Cheers
Chris. This is not pert near it is the very best!
Thanks Billy
It depends on which hemisphere you're in and which side of the international date line you're on I think.......
Ha ha, Cheers
@@markandsamafterwork I live in Elko, Northeastern Nevada, where I own a small firearms training business. Lots of open desert for shooting ELR. Always enjoy your videos.
Awesome, sounds great, glad you like the videos, Cheers
Sabatti MMR (Multi Radial Riffleling) is very good!
Cheers
I have found that my greatest problem is me, I just need a lot more practice !!!
Cheers
I heard (uh-oh, watch out!) that most chamber reamers have 6 cutting flutes and that when a 5 groove barrel is being chambered there will always be one land being cut with nothing on the opposite side to balance out the cutter. Thus, 5 groove barrels can (not necessarily will) have a small amount of chatter on the leade. 3, 4, or 6 groove barrels will always have their reamer cuts balanced out (geometry), so they don't suffer from this problem. Your thoughts, please.
No, all sorts of details, but really depends on the individual parts, short answer, ask your gunsmith, he will have those individual details on your and his parts, Cheers
Think about it. The reamer flutes cut below the grooves. 4140 chrome moly is a free machining steel. Why would the number of lands matter? The reamer’s bite isn’t just the lands. Any type of process can yeild sub par results if it is hurried up with shortcuts. A quality job on the other hand is where better range scores can occur. Remington’s specs come to mind. Rough house machining when it comes to barrels; although some good ones slip through. I own one.
How Bout Gain Twist 5R ?
You can in theory get gain twist cut in any of the rifling styles, Cheers
@@markandsamafterwork that would be awesome
I am wondering if 3 groves is a little like a 3 tooth chuck or a 3 leg stool, That they are self centering
Well no, centered by nature, but still good, Cheers
👍👍
Cheers
Would it be fair to argue that less lands also means less surface contact area hence less friction?
Contact is lands and bore, and well all in the details, as always, Cheers
Have u ever studied graduated riffleing. Belanger barrels used too make them. I can't find any thing on them.
Maybe look up gain twist, I think that might be the same thing, Cheers
Do you mean Gain Twist as in Pope Gain Twist design? So you might start with a twist of 1:16 at the chamber end and end up 1:12 at the muzzle end. Try "Gain Twist" you will likely have to ask for it and only a place that cut rifles can produce it I think!
Yes that's it , exactly.
Is there more muzzle velocity possible with less rifling?
Very little difference
@@markandsamafterwork Interesting, thank you for the answer!
Mark, how do you deal with a dreaded carbon ring so many F class shooters are fussing about? It will inevitable form with light cleaning only
Clean as you need, a little chamber and throat cleaning every shoot tends to do the trick for me, but they all run a little different, I just don't do more than I need, Cheers
C.L.R.!
JB Bore Paste every 200 rounds, flush it out with solvent and then Isopropyl alcohol to ensure no paste is left in the barrel - works a treat and you'll never have an issue with carbon ring forming.
Any idea how polygon barrels are made?
Hammer forged
Hi mate, have you done a video on gain twist yet, I'd like to hear your thoughts, if possible?
He has discussed it a few times.
This will help, ua-cam.com/video/lWohyYEn-wc/v-deo.html , cheers
Dont forget gain twist rifling.
Mentioned, Cheers
Whole lot of artillary barrels made with gain twist barrels. Nothing new. Their accuracy was mostly dependent on the proper coordinates.
Lands that are cut square are more likely to cut grooves in the bullet therefore causing deformation. It makes more sense that bevelled edged lands or polygonal rifling would be best.
Well nothing has actual square lands, also, polygonal doesn't work in anything with more than minimal twist, but really all explained in the video, Cheers
First. Hey hero
Lol, cheers
Flow forming rifling is probably too expensive
Good for alloy wheels, but steel barrels.... Cheers
No magic in any one type of barrel rifling profile. A garbage 5R barrel is still garbage and a brilliant 2, 3,4,5 or 6 grove with conventional style rile that is good is good. Polygonal, ratchet, microgroove, hexagonal, Ballard, gain twist rifling can all work well if done well. People latch on to buzz words and what is trendy thinking that this is all they need to do to guarantee an outcome. No shortage of ignorant consumers!
Yep, it is the way of some things for sure, lol, Cheers