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`Bon Voyage Dave. Don't forget the heaters for your equipment-especially the equitorial mount- it can get a bit chilly down there and Lithium batteries don't like frostbite, oh and microfibre clothes for the lenses- lots of them warm and dry. And prove Mr Flatzoid his Grift is over!
Make sure you take some lat long readings when in Punta Arenas. Measure the distance between 2 points and record it, then have people all the way up those 2 point do the same measurement. The ‘metres’ will increase then decrease as predicted. (I mapped it on Google Earth and the results are very interesting and can only happen on a globe)
@@christianpulido8360 that’s why i’m telling dave to actually measure it when on the ground in PUNTA ARENAS to get an accurate reading. then get people to measure the same lines further up the GLOBE. then G EARTH is irrelevant.
Flerfers when presented with mathematics: - _"That's just a bunch of numbers! Trust your senses!"_ Flerfers when presented with visual evidence that the surface of the Earth is curved: - _"That's an optical illusion! Where are your measurements and calculations?"_
Surveyors confirmg that they do indeed have to take the curvature of the Earth into account at all should be the end of the discussion. The Flearthers continuing to argue really just shows what we already knew - a large part of being a flat earther is just wanting to believe you're special and know more than experts in their field because your ego won't let you find healthy ways of dealing with your own perceived inadequicies.
@@ewarwoowar9938 my favorite argument is when flat earthers say things like "oh, they take plane surveying and then apply corrections to make it fit the narrative." It is hilarious because when I ask them if the surveys were correct before or after the corrections, which they claim geodetic surveyors must do, they no longer want to talk about plane or geodetic surveying
@robertcatuara5118 the (relatively) smart ones who's job it is do it for money. The stupid ones do it to feel special because they don't realize they could be putting their time into.something beneficial that would actually make them special.
Flerfs: YOU CAN'T MEASURE ANY CURVE. Surveyors: We constantly measure the curve. Flerfs: Nope, you sure can't measure the curve. Surveyors: We measure the curve so accurately that we can detect the gravitational influence of nearby mountains. Flerfs: Look how flat it is. Surveyors: sigh
It's the "If you really believe in something hard enough, it will become true" philosophy. Most of us don't buy this. We believe reality will kill you whether you believe in it or not.
Akin to geodetics: During WWI, more and more powerful ballistics were becoming less and less accurate, and it was due to planar distortion as the projectile flew further away from the centroid of the map projection. To correct for the curvature of the Earth a multi-zoned map was created to make ballistics both easier and more accurate, the Universal Transverse Mercator ("UTM"). This was war, no room for fooling around, things are only done to match reality.
Hahaha I would love to think that the Axis powers deliberately lost the war by bombing empty fields NEXT TO Allied encampments, because they were so committed to the Globe Earth Lie.
The US artillery "computers" (purely mechanical) used in the Korean war were equipped with Gyrocompasses to find true north. Then they ALSO compensated for Coriolis. One device with TWO proofs that the earth is a rotating sphere. Ask ANY flat earth moron to explain the theory of operation of the Gyrocompass and be prepared for some deafening SILENCE. NOT ONE has EVER responded to me when I ask them to explain the theory of operation of the 100-year old Gyrocompass. I WONDER WHY?
Thing is, Everytime a flattie actually makes the effort to test the shape of the earth, they find out it's a globe and all the other flatties say he just wasn't a real flattie anyways. It's natural selection for the most dishonest flattie ever.
To your point. We, that is people who are not FN-tards, enjoy the world wide web in every corner of the globe. Is there anywhere we can not reach each other? We turned the world into a village. Now? Our community is not just our neighbors, but can include anyone in the world who is also on the web. The flip side of this coin is that all the Village Idiots? Are now all in the same Village, receiving the positive feedback required to be a part of a community. This is the fun part. Where does that leave the Village Idiot? A man used to be able to pack his stuff, if anything was left after whatever huge mistake he made, and move on to another place.... a place where it was possible to remake himself... to apply what he learned without the stigma of being the Village Idiot. Redemption was possible. But not now. There is no "other village" now. Humanity has a hole in the very center of it... that hole can ONLY be filled with Community. It's why God is so popular for so long.... because before the net, your community was local only. Sure you can listen in on the radio, but there is no positive feedback to make you feel like you're In. I suspect that very instant that a flat earther figures out that he is stupid, has been stupid, and is actively promoting a conspiracy to make everyone stupid..... at that exact moment? They have an existential crisis. Is there a community for ex-flat earthers? Maybe that would be more of a support group? Can they make a complete 180 right then and there, and join the rest of us in the appreciation of all the work Science has ever given to us, even to those of us who are idiots? Would we let them? Will we even allow for the redemption of a flat earther? Because if we do not.... they are only going to remain as a part of a sick cult... but fully aware of how fake their existence is. NOW! Personally? I choose violence. I refuse to allow a flatearther to speak their BS in my presence without smacking them in the mouth.
The horse has been beaten to death, dessicated, and bleached in sun. And yet it still screams 'earth is flat' whenever approached with the stick of knowledge. 😂😂
As a former practitioner of the dark art of celestial navigation, I would very much enjoy you doing a video with the FLERFs explaining how celestial navigation works on a flat earth.
Many flerfs say celestial navigation only works on FE but they never say how. I believe MCToons has a challenge with something like 10 or 20K for anyone showing him how to do it on a FE and he's been waiting for a couple of years
Something something stars are moving around the disk... Possibly because the government put them there to confuse you into believing the earth is a sphere.
personally i think celestial navigation is the single best proof that the earth is a globe. It ONLY works on a Globe, and it has been proven to be reliable beyond even the smallest possible shred of doubt, seeing how much use it saw throughout history. Really, this should just immidiately end any argument about the earth being flat.
Imagine not understanding area of a simple 2D shape and then arguing the shape of the planet and that every surveyor on said planet knows less about surveying than you do
That's a simple enough mistake to make - see you have to measure IQ from some distance away to get accurate numbers - the feet have to disappear behind the horizon. If you are too close or stand in front of a mirror you get a number that's too high. Likewise if you measure on a flat earth, you don't get that necessary correction for curvature. They measure 160, but it's really only 80. 😝 (SCNR. I'll show myself out now.)
Dave mentioning Surveyors telling him they wished the Earth was flat because that would make their job easier reminded me of something I thought of many times when I was working in Aircraft Maintenance: It would be much easier to work on Aircraft if _GRAVITY_ did not exist...🤭
@@Katy_Jones I lived at RAF Coltishall in the mid 80's when I was a radar technician at RAF Neatishead. All I know about the Jag's is that they were bloody noisy when trying to sleep off a night shift.
I wish gravity was just electromagnetism. We could have seen flying ironclad warships and space-dreadnoughts if that was the case, since the first electromagnet was invented in 1824.
The Humber Bridge is only 1.4 miles long, but still had to be design to account for the curvature of the Earth - at the top, the towers are 1.4 inches further apart than the bottom.
I think that they didn't so much 'design' the bridge to account for the curvature, but each tower was set out to be built perfectly plumb to its local base position - if not the stress calculations would be out. It was a necessary consequence of that that the tops of the towers are further apart. It was a useful check on the accuracy of their construction.
@@chassetterfield9559 Correct we do NOT need to "design buildings taking earth curvature into account". You just BUILD it using a BUBBLE LEVEL! Bubble Levels FOLLOW THE CURVE.
I discovered earth curvature during land surveying on a college field trip . In short, we triangulated a circa 1sq km of undulating land , using highly accurate theodolites, the class split up into 6 groups of 4 and when we transposed our readings onto a hand drawn map. WE ALL HAD THE SAME 'ERRORS'. in that, our trig points increasingly overlapped towards the corners, because we were taking data from a curved surface and attempting to flatten it onto a 2d plane....we all had a collective 'A-HA' moment at the end of that beautiful week in the Lake District
You do get a kickback but it goes to arm and feed the penguins to stop people going too far into the antarctic, that negates your payment, I have the same problem.too.
@@XavierEmeralds put on tin foil, its in the clause of the paper you werent given, because we for some reason cant find eachother using the flat map. Sorry! Youll get your money after.
I'm a registered surveyor in Australia. There are a lot of misconceptions on how a surveyor "adjusts for curvature". Firstly, as an overall global reference system we have the WGS84 Ellipsoid, and we reference a point by longitude and latitude. However, when we use XY coordinates (or Northings, Eastings), we project the ellipsoidal surface of a section of the earth’s surface on a plane, as coordinate geometry only works on a plane. In the field we need to apply a suitable scale factor to measured distances to compensate for distortions caused by bending a curved surface on to a flat plane. Various countries have set up various coordinate systems and projections to achieve this. the most common is the Mercator projection, but Gauss Conform, and Gauss Kruger projections for example are also used to be suitable for a particular country’s needs. Arctic and Antarctic regions use a stereographic map projection. Projections are based on a central line of longitude, and in the case of Mercator projections each projection panel goes for 3 degrees either side of the a meridian (line of longitude). The north-south line of reference is the equator. The scale factor applied to distance varies according where you are working on the particular projection. At the edge of the Mercator projections the scale factor can reach about 480mm per kilometre. This is fine for road construction and general mapping. When building a bridge however the surveyor creates what is called a local system for that structure, he chooses a suitable referee line and creates a coordinate system with no scale factor (i.e. scale factor is 1.000000). On my last bridge 220m long the difference in length when applying a scale was 80mm which is a bit rough for the precise set outs required for the structure, hence the use of local system. When a survey transitions from one projection panel to an adjoining one coordinates can be converted mathematically. All horizontal coordinate measurements are also reduced to sea level, normally catered for by the scale factor. One can also create a precise local system say for a Power Station or LNG liquefaction plant or overland conveyor. These coordinate origins are normally set by choosing a point, giving the origin coordinate a value of say E10000.000, N20000.000 and choosing another point as reference for direction or orientation of the system, or E1000.000, N2000.000 for a smaller site. Scale factor is set to one. These coordinate values alert another surveyor that the system is local and not linked to a projection. Obviously, the problem arises when placing such a system on a map, the origin needs to be fixed again by a projection system survey should the need arise. Many towns cadastral (boundary) are local because when they were set up before global projection systems had been put in place, and some surveyors also have issues applying scale factors to property boundaries on principle. This makes it difficult when compiling maps of services such as electrical, water and sewers, as their locations are often tied to property boundaries, and become difficult to map (or stich together) on a larger scale with local systems. Over the last generation or so towns and countries have made huge efforts collating local cadastral surveys and stitching them on to one global system. GPS receivers measure locations based on the WGS84 reference ellipsoid. Their internal computers convert these measurements to local projection system coordinates selected on the unit. Transformations can be set up in a receiver, so it reports local system coordinates directly. Elevations Are also measured on the WGS84 ellipsoid but can be corrected to geoidal heights (as measured by simple levelling). The reference geoid used for this has been determined by gravimetric satellites that have determined the geoidal shape of the earth. This science is referred to as “Geodesy”, hence the term “geodetic surveys” when working on projected coordinates. Forget the “100 square mile” and similar rules, no surveyor follows that. It is rubbish made up by lay persons who think they know it all. You work on a projection system or a local system, the local system extents are made fit for its purpose.
Damn, Sir. Very thorough. We sometimes use a Global Scale Factor in North Florida, US. If margin if error calls for it. I'd love to come work for you guys!
For clarity, the mercator projections being referred to are transverse mercator projections centered on the longitude line in question,so you never get anywhere near the grossly distorted "polar"regions 90° east and west of the central longutude line. Sometimes folks who don't know much about the subject hear "Mercator" and instantly think of the grossly distorted sizes of Greenland and Antarctica on the poster maps they remember from elementary school.
This is alot of mathematical gymnastics to make a belief system fit physical measurements. No one has ever “measured”a curve and said see the earth is a ball, you only take measurements believed to be on a ball, then make them fit to a perceived incorrect flat shape.
@@Vkarlsen The earth has been measured countless times. You're just a troll, the fact that you don't understand the maths dosn't make you right. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite_geodesy#:~:text=Satellite%20geodesy%20is%20geodesy%20by,broader%20field%20of%20space%20geodesy.
As an Australian, I want my money. I've learnt being Australian is a paid actors gig, and god damn it, I want my money, so I can fly to the other season of the globe and go skiing.
Flat earthers arguing that surveyors only account for earth curvature sometimes is like young earth creationists citing scientific measurements of "only" 50,000 years proves a 6000 year old earth.
My father was a surveyor for 50 years. He always adjusted for curvature. This was his small part of the global cover up and every month NASA sent him a cheque for $100…..honest….
Even at $100/month, imagine what their total budgets must be for the literally millions of people across the globe who they need to pay to keep quiet. No wonder NASA never has enough money for missions. It's all going towards The Conspiracy!
it was not 'earth curve' he was adjusting for, it was Topographical Variations. erm derp, how much 'earth curve' you think you'r gonna get in such Short scare Ranges? use you noggins if your have any. Go back to bed sleepwalker..
I'm glad you brought up the corrections needed for the mass of mountains. As I recall, surveying is also how it was discovered that mountain ranges stick down too, i.e. the crust is thicker under mountains. Those errors are less, but are measurable when you survey India due to the immense Tibetan plateau and the Himalayan mountains.
I wonder if I learnt that right, I was taught the mountains don’t affect gravity because they are very light underneath. Your explanation makes sense too.
@@jsbrads1 It's been a while since I studied geology, but I checked current references (mainly wikipedia). What I said is approximately right, though I'm not writing rigorously for academia. It's a side topic on this channel... For purposes of this channel, the main gist is that they take measurements and observations and then tweak their models until they fit the observations, not make adjustments to observations in order to fit a globe model. Back to geology, the continental crust under the Himalayan mountains is much deeper than in most places. Possibly it's unique to that tectonic plate and collision and not a general fact under most mountain ranges. The original surveying was done by triangulation over large distances, in difficult environment, over many years. From the point of view of a plumb line, the weight on the bottom swings slightly towards the mountains compared to if it were on a globe of uniform density and elevation, because in that direction there's more rock instead of air (and rock is more dense). But deflected towards the mountains less than they thought it should, because the continental crust was so thick, and continental crust is less dense than the mantle. Of course that difference is less than the difference between air and rock, so it's only slightly off from originally calculated. If I understood the figures I was reading, we're talking .01% or less adjustment for the mountain range, and considerably less for the thickness of the crust. It's well beyond my ability to go out and survey it myself.
according to flat earthers...yes. And we can't forget that they're supposed to *remove* the curvature value, so there's also a chance thingy that they aren't adding unnecessary numbers, but they're subtracting unnecessary numbers according to some 'made up chart'. Which would be equally bad for the accuracy.
The curvature is insignificant at relatively short distances because the earth is huge. You could measure a coastline very accurately with a one foot ruler but it would take decades. Surveyors must logically weigh precision of measurement with the value of the survey. Surveying a parcel of farmland in upstate New York is going to be different than surveying a parcel in downtown Manhattan.
I have bachelor's and master's degrees in Civil Enginenering. I'll never forget the first day of Surveying Systems on my very first day of engineering school, Dr. Williams taught us the difference between "flat" and "level." Because they aren't the same thing.
Did anybody else notice that when, at 23:20, when Dave says "I think this video has gone on long enough," Rusty immediately picked up his head and looked at Dave as if he understood what was said?
@spacelemur7955 Perhaps Rusty is the smart one and Dave is purely a mouthpiece? Has anyone considered that? 🙂🌏 Edit: End a question with a question mark (the first one). Standards must be maintained!
@@veivoli _"Perhaps Rusty is the smart one and Dave is purely a mouthpiece?"_ That would explain why Rusty is often trying to break Dave's habit of waving his hands when he talks.
Finally you got to proof of a globe through surveys! We proved the earth was round using a theodolite in TWO different ways in my freshman year of my civil engineering course
@@mikeflatbird729 Says the clown who can't explain a sunset without butchering the rules of perspective, and uses numerous childish attempts at insults.
I still have a hard time understanding why Flerfs believe what they see is flat: do they all live in Kansas, USA? Because most places on the planet are, in fact, not flat at all. Plenty of hills, slopes, mountains, valleys. Meanwhile, anyone who takes a plane and gets a window seat on a nice day can _see for themselves_ the curvature of the earth. Who, and what, is really apparent here?
First rule of Flerf: Flerf citations always contradict the flerf’s claim. No exceptions. Fourth rule of Flerf: Every attempt to flerf-explain a phenomenon contradicts flerf-explanations of some other phenomena. No exceptions. Gotta lie for Flerf.
A slightly weird question: can you switch that feature off? If you can, you could survey the same area with both methods and then check which method produces fewer errors. Using the same device for measuring eliminates some systematic errors due to differences in devices (a'ka production tolerances).
Totally agree that it's hilarious and sad, but you can tell that Dave _had_ to explain it because it's obvious that Flatzoid absolutely understands it to mean 100mi * 100mi. 🤦
Everyone here should examine NASA Space Flight's video footage of SpaceX aborting their Flight 6 booster into the ocean. The booster is just far away that it lands beyond the horizon but only the lower quarter of it is obscured by it, the top 3/4 remain clearly visible. Then it tips over _towards_ the camera which is great because you can then see the top of it going _below_ the horizon before the whole thing explodes. Then you can see the explosion emanating from behind/below the horizon with waves continuously rolling across the view _in front_ of it all. Beautiful 4K footage that completely destroys the 'perspective' argument for things disappearing out of view in the ocean.
I have mentioned this before on the comments in many flat earth vids. Now I am talking about the UK. Not America. OK, we have Jersey a channel island,approximately 90 ish miles from mainland UK. I have traveled in a small boat from Jersey to mainland UK at night. From Jersey you just cannot see the light from the lighthouse at Portland (Dorset UK) As you come across the channel at some point you will see the “loom” of the light from Portland. Which is well up into the sky,as you gradually travel on,the light comes into view. But it’s still in the sky. Travel on and the light gradually comes almost to eye level. Eventually actually becoming eye level. If this does not signify the curvature of the earth then I have no idea how flat earthers would ever be convinced.
I asked one of them why nobody had ever seen the coast of France from Portland, or either of the Channel Islands... or watched waves lapping on a French beach from Dover cliffs. They told me to prove that nobody had. I don't think they want to be convinced, they just want something that gives their lives some meaning, however pitiful.
These are people who say the sun travels in a circle over the disc and pay no attention to the fact that it looks the same size all the time - that's an illusion - don't trust your eyes. They also say you can't see it when it's daytime in California but night time in UK is because light has a limited travel distance - ignore the stars visible on the western horizon - I'm assuming those are illusions also since it's impossible for them to be closer than that California sun. They cannot be "convinced" by such simple logic because they already know and are faking it for the likes and views
The dishonesty of Witsit is amazing. He says over and over that surveyors MUST use plane surveying or we can't build anything, when the book clearly says that you CAN ignore Earth's curvature over shorter distances, if you choose to do so, because it makes the math so much easier, but surveyors are more than welcome to do it the hard way if, for one reason or another, they need to be extremely precise. Nowhere does it say you MUST ignore it or you'll get bad results.
I suppose the question that wasn't answered in the debate is "if the earth is flat, why is there even a need to take flat segments and stitch them together into a sphere in the first place?"
They believe the globe is a concerted effort by reptilians/illuminati/jews/whateverthefuck to undermine belief in God. The flerfs that like to cosplay as scientists with all their experiments are never going to say that out loud, but that's the short of it.
Gotta love the way Witshit cites "all survey manuals" to rebut the claim that earth has a radius ...and then ignores the fact that _all_ of those survey manuals say the earth _has a radius._ Which is it Austin, are survey manuals an authoritative source, or are they purveyors of the pernicious lie? 😅
I work in the field of flight simulation. Back in the early days of my career, computers simply were not powerful enough to simulate Earth curvature - and it caused MANY inconsistencies. Only when we developed the capability to simulate first perfectly spherical Earth - then one that follows the WGS-84 specification did we finally get high enough precision for things like modern auto-landing auto-pilots to not arrive over our simulated airfields with their wheels six inches under the tarmac! More recently, I've been working on lunar simulation for NASA's Artemis program - and the shape of the Moon is WAY different - so a whole different set of math is required. Anyway - if all of this was being faked - then I'd have to be a part of the conspiracy...building all of that extra math - only to turn it off for actual simulation! Since I'm telling you all of this quite openly - and there are no black helicopters circling my home waiting to arrest me before I can hit "SEND" - I think it's safe to say that the Earth is not in fact flat.
Speaking as a professional engineer who works in civil engineering, even planar surveys correct for Earth curvature in the U.S. Because the coordinates are compared to a starting point of 0,0 in the state plane coordinate system. But the state plane coordinate systems are given different zones for different curvature corrections. Here in Virginia there is a North Zone and a South Zone. Each zone uses a slightly different curvature correction value.
FLERF: "Do your own research, it'll show the Earth is flat!" Dave: Does extensive research, proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Earth is a sphere. FLERF: "Nuh uh!"
If I could make everyone understand one thing about engineering, it would be that we don't have or need perfect measurements, calculations, and models. There is uncertainty and error in all engineering, and how much we can accept depends on the application. We take the easiest adequate solution to the problem because its not worth the extra effort to get a "perfect" solution when a good enough solution is available. That applies to surveying as well. Over a certain distance, assuming a plane works well enough for most applications. How long that distance is depends on how good the solution needs to be.
Over 100 square miles... That's 10x10 miles. Over such an area, the difference between flat and the curve of the Earth is often still within the construction tolerances. BUT... For the flerfs, 100 square miles mean a square with 100 miles sides.🤦🏽
I myself had forgotten how the labeling of square miles works and fell for the same trap. The main difference is, I actually accepted that I'd gotten it wrong, adopted the correction and - and this is the fun part - immediately stopped being wrong as a result. I find too many people are more afraid of having been wrong in the past than in being wrong in the present, and it just makes them even MORE wrong in past, present, AND future. That's no way to live. The tiniest bit of humility leads to an endless amount of learning. Those who never learn will be left behind by the world around them, not out of spite, but out of simple cause and effect. The same way standing still on a treadmill will lead to you moving backwards.
Yeah, when he said that I just laughed. I do railroad surveys that are usually around 2000 ft in total project length and we still apply adjustments for curvature.
Dave, you are not wasting your time making these videos, because through your videos, I learn so many interesting stuffs about Earth, space, photography, etc.
I would like to express my respect for your work. What you do not only demonstrates your dedication to science but also showcases your incredible patience. It is no small feat to listen to these arguments, detached from reality, analyze them, and then refute them so clearly and effectively. The passion and perseverance with which you stand for the truth are truly inspiring. Thank you for devoting your time and energy to this noble cause. Hats off to you! Wishing you continued success and strength in your work! Best regards, Joseph from Budapest
Always hilarious to me how the curvature of the earth is obvious in so many ways in so many fields, so it requires pure ignorance of many fields in other to believe for even a second that the earth could be anything but roughly spherical. I was literally in a skyscraper, looked up, saw the sun's light hitting the ceiling, looked down and saw it not hitting the floor, and thought "oh yeah, the earth is round". Like, I wasn't thinking about the shape of the earth, all I had to do was look up and there was just proof, right there.
Yet again - a flerf thinks they've found a "gotcha" the experts have missed that proves the globe is a conspiracy and then mistakes their "gotcha" for proof the Earth is flat. And also - yet again - the "gotcha" is really something the experts have known about and taken into consideration for literally decades if not centuries if not millennia. You'd think they'd be exhausted from moving the goalposts so often, but stupidity is nothing if not persistent.
That annoys me to no end. I work with photogrammetrists and if you want to obtain the kind of 3D reconstructions you see on Google earth you need to keep into account the Earth's curvature. It's not a secret, it's not an assumption, you can work with UTM coordinates but you'll accumulate errors in the 10s of centimeters very quickly. The assumptions you can make all depend on the precision you need.
Former surveyor here. Very familiar with the Leica total stations. Different surveys require different accuracies, and a lot is done with gps now, but definitely have to account for earth curve for some precise surveys. In fact we calculated the curve roughly using a total stations in school in one lab. Pretty funny to hear witsit talk about it like he knows the field lol
I never did surveying on that scale or with the need for that sort of precision, but even in small irrigation/farm projects the curve will sometimes become an irritant. Most of the time it didn't matter.
Surveyors have known about curvature for centuries. The Public Land Survey System started back in the late 1700’s realized that. The United States is divided into hundreds of squares called townships from Ohio westward and every 4th townships was adjusted to account for curvature called a standard parallel. Surveyors often refer to Mount Rushmore as the three surveyors and the other guy. The General Land Office survey of the U.S. is a fascinating study.
A nice example are the pillars of the golden gate bridge. The pillars are definitely not parallel and this of course is built this way because the curvature of the earth.
It's also worth checking out the Great Trigonometrical Survey of India. This also shows the curve, shows that the curve isn't quite a sphere but is an oblate spheroid, and had to correct for the gravitational pull of mountains. Additionally, since these high accuracy surveys do need to correct for gravitational anisotropy from geological features, that proves that the downward acceleration that we call gravity cannot be explained by saying that the Earth is a flat plate that's being constantly accelerated upwards- from different parts of the surface experience gravity at slightly different speeds and in slightly different angles, the disk would quickly break apart. And since the 'constantly accelerated flat plate' model is therefore ruled out and we know that the different parts of the Earth are gravitationally attracted to each other, that opens up the question of how exactly such a flat plate Earth would structurally maintain its shape without collapsing into a ball.
The Earth can't be constantly accelerating in one direction, because as we approached the speed of light, the field of stars would be more and more distorted. Among other things, the light from stars ahead of us would be blue shifted, the light from stars behind us would be red shifted. We would notice all of that.
@@victorfinberg8595Flat Earth was one of the main vanguards in our current war of knowledge. Those who seek to hold power want to annihilate the possibility of knowing. Now, claims of any kind outstrip our ability to discern.
@@antondovydaitis2261 "war of knowledge". Yeah, Flat earth is on the side of anti-intellectualism and bringing back diseases we almost got rid of. Go eat more lead paint.
@@victorfinberg8595 First, not spamming. Second, Flat Earth was effectively the prototype of easily debunked absurdity, aggressively promoted by grifters abusing deliberately credulous marks. It demonstrated that there is no falsehood so absurd that it can't be promoted and abused.
Also... we do not rely on "planar surveys" for large construction projects. Long Span bridges require curve and air refraction corrections if sightings are over water. This is the same for large-footprint buildings such as malls, distribution centers, etc.
malls and distribution centers huh. how long do you think those buildings are to cover so much 'earth curve'? you people are ridiculous. You only detect and measure topographical variations and elevations. nothing more.
@@mikeflatbird729 so you likely have only been to a small strip mall. Maybe in your trailer park, the biggest building is quite small. Mall of America covers acres just for the building. Giga Factories are even larger. Some Amazon warehouses cover several acres. I worked on a warehouse that was 1,000m x 500m... Thats a kilometer by half a kilometer or in freedom units lots of football fields by not as many.
@@mikeflatbird729 you are just a parrot with no actual information about the topic at all and i just realized your name is flatbird. makes much more sense now
I have spent over 10 years working for Surveying companies as a 3D Laser Scanning Specialist, Yes... the curvature of the Earth is factored in to all of the calculations for large area coverage.
Bridge Engineer here. Worked on some pretty large bridges. Most of the time, we don't really account for the curvature of Earth, but sometimes we do. It's accounted for on the new Tappen Zee (AKA Cuomo) bridge towers.
Unlikely, just like he doesn't realise that 10 miles would only account for 0.14 degrees of curvature. He also seems to think that plane surveying is used to measure the shape of the earth, rather than local elevation and topography.
A 100 square miles sounds like a lot until you realise that the earth has 197000000 square miles of surface area. Of this would be 1/1970000 of the total. Now take a basterkball, draw an area on it that is 1/1970000 of the total.
@@probablynotmyname8521 they are lol. iirc, the Earth's atmosphere and deepest part of the ocean combined are thinner than the skin of an apple, if the earth was apple sized.
@@5peciesunkn0wn I calculated it for a basketball and the difference in elevation between the deepest part of the ocean and Mt. Everest was I think around if not less than one third the depth of a basketball's ribs.
As a retired surveyor that did surveying before GPS I must say this is a great summary of a wast subject. Since most of my work was for distances up to 10Km we did not have to take earth's shape into account. But for longer distances we always did. It is mostly a case of required precision. Some times we did long distance measuring along the coast required us to measure from high elevation to high elevation on the other end to be able to see the endpoint at all because of the curvature of the ocean!
Videos like this are why I'm subscribed, I like laughing at how dumb flat earthers are, but what I value more is furthering my understanding of how the shape of the earth affects things and I love that you go into detailed explanations of why the flat earthers are wrong so I get to learn some of that stuff. Mostly it is basically what I had been assuming or had figured must be the case, but it is nice to have that stuff corroborated.
They’re not dumb please don’t call them that or we will never teach them the truth. I love how passionate they are about a topic and will die on the hill they’re crazy for their beliefs. I wish they put that same energy to something fruitful.
@sircartier4422 There is no way anyone smart would not be able to verify the Earth is a globe, it only takes simple math and a mild understanding of geometry to do that. Being dumb is a necessary prerequisite for being an actual flat earther. The smart "flat earthers" are just liars and scammers trying to make some easy money off dumb people, they know the earth isn't flat. The first step to not being dumb is to recognise that you are, unless you do you will not take steps to change that, so you are doing them no favours by trying to sugar coat it or avoid the issue. Sure they are more likely to change their mind about flat earth if you don't call them dumb, but you haven't solved anything by doing that, a week later they will just be onto another stupid conspiracy because they won't realise they lack the knowledge to tell the difference between reality and a convincing but false story.
It's funny to see those two flerfs talking authoritatively about a surveying, a field they have zero training in. And when Flatzoid was talking about 120 square miles, he was treating it as if 120 square miles were 120 miles. No. To get the radius of a 120-square-mile area, you divide it by pi and then take the square root! That's only a 6.18-mile radius. I was yelling at the screen: "SQUARE miles, you idiot! Not miles! It's SQUARE miles!!"
The figure for 100 square miles is a circle with a radius of 5.65 miles. At that distance from the centre point the drop is about 255" based on 8" x 5.65². So still not insignificant in reality but Dave needs to do a correction somewhere. It seems like a problem until you work out what effect that will have on a large building site and the answer is not a lot unless you are building really really high and then bridging between the tops of your really really high buildings. I calculated that the angular difference between two verticals at opposite edges of that circle would be about 0.17°.
Flatzoid ignores evidence and facts because of his religious faith. It is fairly common among flerfs who believe their respective religious texts claim the earth is flat and unmoving. Sadly for them all the major religions agree the earth is a globe but the flerfs continue to disagree.
The whole issue with flat earthers is that they look for what the want to hear, take it completely out of context, and throw literally everything else out regardless of what evidence it will tell you.
@@ken481959anti-science conspiracy "theorists" are often the scientific equivalent to a soveriegn citizen. My favorite is a list of 'scary chemical names' and asking 'which of these would you put in your body?' Someone replies 'none of them!' And then they're told that the list is the make up of an apple.
In the early 1970s I had the hobby of designing, building and flying model rockets, and was a member of a club. We would fly them for fun, but also in competitions, in various categories, including one called predicted altitude. We measured their altitude using a measured baseline, and placed at each end a basic theodelite type of device. Each was a tripod, a sighting tube with crosshairs, and azimuth and elevation scales. Placing the launch pad near the midpoint of the baseline (but offset a bit from it to avoid a dead spot from either tracker) we would launch and then "spot" the rocket at its peak altitude (usually recovery system deployment). We would take the azimuth & elevation figures, plug them into a formula, and derive the altitude.
If you are standing in the middle of 100 square miles, then it's 5 miles to the edge of the boundry box for that area. What do you need a telescope for?
I recall watching an episode of one of those "modern marvels"-like shows where they were talking about a particularly long bridge. I can't recall what bridge, but I do remember them saying in the show that ends were far enough apart that they needed to correct for earth's curvature. This makes sense because if they didn't then the towers would be leaning and likely collapse.
Guess what? My father was an army cartographer while in service. He did just that - went into the field with teodolite, took measurements and used them to draw maps for army to use. We can safely assume his superiors wouldn't be very happy with his work, if he was not precise and exact. What my dad did when I introduced him to the concept of flat Earth and their "arguments"? He just laughed. So, yeah - I have first hand confirmation that this argument is bollocks.
Thank you. I am a qualified surveyor, but I haven't been active in the profession for a while. It was a nice nostalgic episode for me. And there was also something in there that I didn't know (or had forgotten).
Safe travels on your incredible adventure to Antarctica Dave! And you might want to add Mark Knopflers - Sailing to Philadelphia to your offline playlist ;) And as always, thorough work! You set that bar incredibly high for others to follow.
In short, you can measure spherical excess doing long distance triangulation with a theodolite. The sum of the internal angles is not 180 degrees as in a planar triangle but always slightly more as in a spherical one. I think I was 11 when we covered this at school.... Ramsen built the first accurate theodolite and they were used in high precision geodetic surveys carried out in the UK starting in 1784 which produced the first accurate maps.
11:19 pretty sure it is far more simpler than that, flatzoid assumes a 100miles distance, that's where his confidence is from, because if you do film out on the ocean a few miles out, there is no visible courve as the waves will be greater than the courve itself. he just failing in basic math, not realizing that 100 squaremiles are actually not that far, (well both of them are) thats why they are so confident in those arguments.
It might be instructive to put a 100 square mile dot on your globe. It'd be about half as big as the Isle of Man. Going to need a 4K display to notice it at that scale
I love how flerfers talk about what others do (surveyors, pilots, civil engineers, scientists, …) but none of them do it themselves or ever had a job as one of these professions. I would love any of these clowns actually try to become qualified enough to apply for these jobs!
Well, there was Mike Hughes, who attempted to prove the earth was flat by building a steam-powered rocket and riding it to orbit. He ended up as a grease stain on the California desert, but at least he had the courage of his convictions.
I have video of an aircraft taking off from Leeds-Bradford Airport, and many videos of take-offs and landings at RAF Linton-on-Ouse, and neither of those runways is level. Then there's the Altiport at Courchevel.
120 square miles is about 11 miles by 11 miles. The rate of curvature in 11 miles is 11/69ths of a degree, well within floor/surface/slab tolerances for most applications. It just is irrelevant for non critical applications.
The Earth is locally flat but globally curved, i.e., spherical. If only they took the time to explore geometry and topology a little, they might hopefully see how easily the whole flat Earth issue falls apart.
For funsies you can sort youtube comments by "newest" to see a couple flat earthers being dinguses. Their comments don't make it to the default sorting.
These people are just role-playing in a game in which they are the smart guys. If they actually wanted to know the shape of the planet they could just spend a day surveying a one mile transect of the surface of a water body.
If they were really keen they'd fly me to Copenhagen, get me a couple of GPS trackers and rent a canoe for me for a week so I could take those trackers on a water-level tour of the coast all the way around the island, or buy me a canoe and get me the trackers so I could take them on a tour of the UK coastline, but not a squeak from any of them when I suggest that.
Checking the Wiki article on the Humber suspension bridge states, " The bridge is designed to tolerate constant motion and bends more than 3 m (10 ft) in winds of 80 mph (129 km/h). The towers, although vertical, are 36 mm (1.4 in) farther apart at the top than the bottom due to the curvature of the Earth." The world isn't flat
If a flattie tells you that you can't observe something... Even without knowing the particular claim I'll blindly predict that there's a very high probability that he's full of shit.
@@5peciesunkn0wn No, I'll say "You're full of shit", and I'll be right regardless of what they say at the moment, as long as they are flat earthers. :P The point is I won't trust them one bit. Even if something sounds reasonable, they can't be trusted when they outright lie about the simplest, most easily observed things.
@@5peciesunkn0wn I assumed that you were.But there are many that would use that argument for real. Like when they say that some deity is talking to them or they 'know' what that deity is thinking or saying.
Just a note that the NSF YT channel is live-streaming an interview with Don Pettit, who is on the ISS, to discuss Space Photography. It's super nerdy, but very interesting for anyone who's into space and/or photography.
To try everything Brilliant has to offer-free-for a full 30 days, visit brilliant.org/DaveMcKeegan . The first 200 of you will get 20% off Brilliant’s annual premium subscription
`Bon Voyage Dave. Don't forget the heaters for your equipment-especially the equitorial mount- it can get a bit chilly down there and Lithium batteries don't like frostbite, oh and microfibre clothes for the lenses- lots of them warm and dry. And prove Mr Flatzoid his Grift is over!
Make sure you take some lat long readings when in Punta Arenas. Measure the distance between 2 points and record it, then have people all the way up those 2 point do the same measurement. The ‘metres’ will increase then decrease as predicted. (I mapped it on Google Earth and the results are very interesting and can only happen on a globe)
Please tell them how the hell is the Line in Saudi going to work
@@markh-thaiYou do know that Google Earth uses 2D and 3D right?
@@christianpulido8360 that’s why i’m telling dave to actually measure it when on the ground in PUNTA ARENAS to get an accurate reading. then get people to measure the same lines further up the GLOBE. then G EARTH is irrelevant.
Flerfers when presented with mathematics:
- _"That's just a bunch of numbers! Trust your senses!"_
Flerfers when presented with visual evidence that the surface of the Earth is curved:
- _"That's an optical illusion! Where are your measurements and calculations?"_
Flerfers when presented with a goalpost: I don't want it there, I want it over here!
The concept of polyhedra would melt these peoples brains... It's quite literally both lol.
Thats so good it could be a tattoo
If they didnt have double standards they wouldnt have any standards at all.
Either that, or the more blatantly dishonest:
- _"Trust the assumption of FE, not what your eyes tell you."_
Flat Earther confrims Globe, again
I knew I'd find this comment - I just didn't expect it to be the only (non-Dave) comment here - I guess I'm earlier than I thought.
Interesting.
Thanks Bob
Confirms.
They are really good at that.
Surveyors confirmg that they do indeed have to take the curvature of the Earth into account at all should be the end of the discussion. The Flearthers continuing to argue really just shows what we already knew - a large part of being a flat earther is just wanting to believe you're special and know more than experts in their field because your ego won't let you find healthy ways of dealing with your own perceived inadequicies.
I thought it was lying for money.
@@ewarwoowar9938 my favorite argument is when flat earthers say things like "oh, they take plane surveying and then apply corrections to make it fit the narrative." It is hilarious because when I ask them if the surveys were correct before or after the corrections, which they claim geodetic surveyors must do, they no longer want to talk about plane or geodetic surveying
@robertcatuara5118 the (relatively) smart ones who's job it is do it for money. The stupid ones do it to feel special because they don't realize they could be putting their time into.something beneficial that would actually make them special.
Flerfs: YOU CAN'T MEASURE ANY CURVE.
Surveyors: We constantly measure the curve.
Flerfs: Nope, you sure can't measure the curve.
Surveyors: We measure the curve so accurately that we can detect the gravitational influence of nearby mountains.
Flerfs: Look how flat it is.
Surveyors: sigh
It's the "If you really believe in something hard enough, it will become true" philosophy. Most of us don't buy this. We believe reality will kill you whether you believe in it or not.
Akin to geodetics: During WWI, more and more powerful ballistics were becoming less and less accurate, and it was due to planar distortion as the projectile flew further away from the centroid of the map projection. To correct for the curvature of the Earth a multi-zoned map was created to make ballistics both easier and more accurate, the Universal Transverse Mercator ("UTM"). This was war, no room for fooling around, things are only done to match reality.
heck when shooting at targets beyond 1km earths rotation has to be taken into account with firearms XD
Hahaha I would love to think that the Axis powers deliberately lost the war by bombing empty fields NEXT TO Allied encampments, because they were so committed to the Globe Earth Lie.
@@donperegrine922Seeing this was WW1, those would be Central powers, not Axis.
The US artillery "computers" (purely mechanical) used in the Korean war were equipped with Gyrocompasses to find true north.
Then they ALSO compensated for Coriolis. One device with TWO proofs that the earth is a rotating sphere.
Ask ANY flat earth moron to explain the theory of operation of the Gyrocompass and be prepared for some deafening SILENCE.
NOT ONE has EVER responded to me when I ask them to explain the theory of operation of the 100-year old Gyrocompass.
I WONDER WHY?
@@morzemus1805 oh yeah. I'm dumb on Fridays
Thing is, Everytime a flattie actually makes the effort to test the shape of the earth, they find out it's a globe and all the other flatties say he just wasn't a real flattie anyways.
It's natural selection for the most dishonest flattie ever.
To your point. We, that is people who are not FN-tards, enjoy the world wide web in every corner of the globe. Is there anywhere we can not reach each other? We turned the world into a village. Now? Our community is not just our neighbors, but can include anyone in the world who is also on the web. The flip side of this coin is that all the Village Idiots? Are now all in the same Village, receiving the positive feedback required to be a part of a community.
This is the fun part. Where does that leave the Village Idiot? A man used to be able to pack his stuff, if anything was left after whatever huge mistake he made, and move on to another place.... a place where it was possible to remake himself... to apply what he learned without the stigma of being the Village Idiot.
Redemption was possible.
But not now. There is no "other village" now.
Humanity has a hole in the very center of it... that hole can ONLY be filled with Community. It's why God is so popular for so long.... because before the net, your community was local only. Sure you can listen in on the radio, but there is no positive feedback to make you feel like you're In.
I suspect that very instant that a flat earther figures out that he is stupid, has been stupid, and is actively promoting a conspiracy to make everyone stupid..... at that exact moment? They have an existential crisis. Is there a community for ex-flat earthers? Maybe that would be more of a support group? Can they make a complete 180 right then and there, and join the rest of us in the appreciation of all the work Science has ever given to us, even to those of us who are idiots? Would we let them?
Will we even allow for the redemption of a flat earther? Because if we do not.... they are only going to remain as a part of a sick cult... but fully aware of how fake their existence is.
NOW! Personally? I choose violence. I refuse to allow a flatearther to speak their BS in my presence without smacking them in the mouth.
The horse has been beaten to death, dessicated, and bleached in sun. And yet it still screams 'earth is flat' whenever approached with the stick of knowledge. 😂😂
Partially because it gets revived with the magical carrots of "attention", "grift" and "my religion"
Grift=$$$
Maybe you have missed: Son of the Dead Horse ….
The bones have long turned into dust and blown away by the wind, and they are still beating the spot where it once laid.
and it thinks the government bleached it because it doesn't believe in stars
As a former practitioner of the dark art of celestial navigation, I would very much enjoy you doing a video with the FLERFs explaining how celestial navigation works on a flat earth.
Many flerfs say celestial navigation only works on FE but they never say how. I believe MCToons has a challenge with something like 10 or 20K for anyone showing him how to do it on a FE and he's been waiting for a couple of years
Something something stars are moving around the disk... Possibly because the government put them there to confuse you into believing the earth is a sphere.
personally i think celestial navigation is the single best proof that the earth is a globe. It ONLY works on a Globe, and it has been proven to be reliable beyond even the smallest possible shred of doubt, seeing how much use it saw throughout history. Really, this should just immidiately end any argument about the earth being flat.
That is indeed an art practiced when it's dark.
Part of FE celestial navigation is rewriting the manual for celestial navigation to eliminate any reference to the globe and Earth curvature.
Imagine not knowing your 10 times table whilst simultaneously pretending you have an IQ of 160.
It's the way they teach kids nowadays
@@Ettrick8it's really not. My kid has no problem understanding the basic concepts that flat Earthers fail to grasp.
Imagine not understanding area of a simple 2D shape and then arguing the shape of the planet and that every surveyor on said planet knows less about surveying than you do
@@Ettrick8Nah, the kids I teah in Year 3 have a better understanding than flat earthers
That's a simple enough mistake to make - see you have to measure IQ from some distance away to get accurate numbers - the feet have to disappear behind the horizon. If you are too close or stand in front of a mirror you get a number that's too high. Likewise if you measure on a flat earth, you don't get that necessary correction for curvature. They measure 160, but it's really only 80. 😝
(SCNR. I'll show myself out now.)
Dave mentioning Surveyors telling him they wished the Earth was flat because that would make their job easier reminded me of something I thought of many times when I was working in Aircraft Maintenance:
It would be much easier to work on Aircraft if _GRAVITY_ did not exist...🤭
Cartographers would love a flat earth because suddenly we don't need to worry about map projections
Except for those working on Sepecat Jaguars, they only take off because of the curvature of the Earth.
Alledgedly.
@@Katy_Jones I lived at RAF Coltishall in the mid 80's when I was a radar technician at RAF Neatishead. All I know about the Jag's is that they were bloody noisy when trying to sleep off a night shift.
@@Katy_Jones>>>
*"JaGUars"* 🤦♂️
I wish gravity was just electromagnetism. We could have seen flying ironclad warships and space-dreadnoughts if that was the case, since the first electromagnet was invented in 1824.
The Humber Bridge is only 1.4 miles long, but still had to be design to account for the curvature of the Earth - at the top, the towers are 1.4 inches further apart than the bottom.
I seem to recall a similar stat of about 2 inches for the Golden Gate Bridge
Ditto Dartford Crossing. Happens the world over
@@mrew42 It'd be worrying if didn't happen everywhere :)
I think that they didn't so much 'design' the bridge to account for the curvature, but each tower was set out to be built perfectly plumb to its local base position - if not the stress calculations would be out. It was a necessary consequence of that that the tops of the towers are further apart. It was a useful check on the accuracy of their construction.
@@chassetterfield9559 Correct we do NOT need to "design buildings taking earth curvature into account".
You just BUILD it using a BUBBLE LEVEL!
Bubble Levels FOLLOW THE CURVE.
I discovered earth curvature during land surveying on a college field trip . In short, we triangulated a circa 1sq km of undulating land , using highly accurate theodolites, the class split up into 6 groups of 4 and when we transposed our readings onto a hand drawn map. WE ALL HAD THE SAME 'ERRORS'.
in that, our trig points increasingly overlapped towards the corners, because we were taking data from a curved surface and attempting to flatten it onto a 2d plane....we all had a collective 'A-HA' moment at the end of that beautiful week in the Lake District
But surely you were all being paid by nasa to lie about the earth?
Who is it that said "For every complex question there is an easy, simple, wrong answer." ?
Pretty much all of the flat earth answers are, harder, more complex, and utterly wrong lol.
Henry Louis Mencken:
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
I did.
Hey, why don't I get paid off by The Government™ as an engineer? This is outrageous
You do get a kickback but it goes to arm and feed the penguins to stop people going too far into the antarctic, that negates your payment, I have the same problem.too.
Same reason I don't get paid as an Australian, I guess. It's a rip-off
@@XavierEmeralds put on tin foil, its in the clause of the paper you werent given, because we for some reason cant find eachother using the flat map. Sorry! Youll get your money after.
Surveyor school - "So, don't forget that after you make your measurements, recalculate for "R" in order to wink-wink, you know, sshhhh..."
Flat earthers proving that they are wrong is always something I love to see. Like lightning striking twice
And yet they seem unbothered by that and declare a win for their cause regardless.
@@BojanMilic84 I win.
@@cattey3306what do you win?
Flerfers are like the Black Knight in Monty Python's Holy Grail.
I'm a registered surveyor in Australia. There are a lot of misconceptions on how a surveyor "adjusts for curvature".
Firstly, as an overall global reference system we have the WGS84 Ellipsoid, and we reference a point by longitude and latitude. However, when we use XY coordinates (or Northings, Eastings), we project the ellipsoidal surface of a section of the earth’s surface on a plane, as coordinate geometry only works on a plane. In the field we need to apply a suitable scale factor to measured distances to compensate for distortions caused by bending a curved surface on to a flat plane. Various countries have set up various coordinate systems and projections to achieve this. the most common is the Mercator projection, but Gauss Conform, and Gauss Kruger projections for example are also used to be suitable for a particular country’s needs. Arctic and Antarctic regions use a stereographic map projection.
Projections are based on a central line of longitude, and in the case of Mercator projections each projection panel goes for 3 degrees either side of the a meridian (line of longitude). The north-south line of reference is the equator. The scale factor applied to distance varies according where you are working on the particular projection. At the edge of the Mercator projections the scale factor can reach about 480mm per kilometre. This is fine for road construction and general mapping. When building a bridge however the surveyor creates what is called a local system for that structure, he chooses a suitable referee line and creates a coordinate system with no scale factor (i.e. scale factor is 1.000000). On my last bridge 220m long the difference in length when applying a scale was 80mm which is a bit rough for the precise set outs required for the structure, hence the use of local system. When a survey transitions from one projection panel to an adjoining one coordinates can be converted mathematically. All horizontal coordinate measurements are also reduced to sea level, normally catered for by the scale factor.
One can also create a precise local system say for a Power Station or LNG liquefaction plant or overland conveyor. These coordinate origins are normally set by choosing a point, giving the origin coordinate a value of say E10000.000, N20000.000 and choosing another point as reference for direction or orientation of the system, or E1000.000, N2000.000 for a smaller site. Scale factor is set to one. These coordinate values alert another surveyor that the system is local and not linked to a projection. Obviously, the problem arises when placing such a system on a map, the origin needs to be fixed again by a projection system survey should the need arise.
Many towns cadastral (boundary) are local because when they were set up before global projection systems had been put in place, and some surveyors also have issues applying scale factors to property boundaries on principle. This makes it difficult when compiling maps of services such as electrical, water and sewers, as their locations are often tied to property boundaries, and become difficult to map (or stich together) on a larger scale with local systems. Over the last generation or so towns and countries have made huge efforts collating local cadastral surveys and stitching them on to one global system.
GPS receivers measure locations based on the WGS84 reference ellipsoid. Their internal computers convert these measurements to local projection system coordinates selected on the unit. Transformations can be set up in a receiver, so it reports local system coordinates directly. Elevations Are also measured on the WGS84 ellipsoid but can be corrected to geoidal heights (as measured by simple levelling). The reference geoid used for this has been determined by gravimetric satellites that have determined the geoidal shape of the earth.
This science is referred to as “Geodesy”, hence the term “geodetic surveys” when working on projected coordinates.
Forget the “100 square mile” and similar rules, no surveyor follows that. It is rubbish made up by lay persons who think they know it all. You work on a projection system or a local system, the local system extents are made fit for its purpose.
Damn, Sir. Very thorough. We sometimes use a Global Scale Factor in North Florida, US. If margin if error calls for it. I'd love to come work for you guys!
For clarity, the mercator projections being referred to are transverse mercator projections centered on the longitude line in question,so you never get anywhere near the grossly distorted "polar"regions 90° east and west of the central longutude line.
Sometimes folks who don't know much about the subject hear "Mercator" and instantly think of the grossly distorted sizes of Greenland and Antarctica on the poster maps they remember from elementary school.
@@MichaelOnines That is correct.
This is alot of mathematical gymnastics to make a belief system fit physical measurements. No one has ever “measured”a curve and said see the earth is a ball, you only take measurements believed to be on a ball, then make them fit to a perceived incorrect flat shape.
@@Vkarlsen The earth has been measured countless times. You're just a troll, the fact that you don't understand the maths dosn't make you right. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite_geodesy#:~:text=Satellite%20geodesy%20is%20geodesy%20by,broader%20field%20of%20space%20geodesy.
Surveyor here. You mean I've been keeping the secret of a flat earth all these years for free?! No one told me this was a paid conspiracy.
As an Australian, I want my money. I've learnt being Australian is a paid actors gig, and god damn it, I want my money, so I can fly to the other season of the globe and go skiing.
I think the good boy has memorized when you do your outro lol!
He definitely has, he sometimes perks up when I'm editing and I reach that part 🤣
I just thought he was telling Dave it was time to wrap things up.
Witsit and Flatzoid together? I was not expecting a Dumb and Dumber reboot so soon.
Just wait for the ending scene, with the bus full of flat-chested bikini babes! 😂
It's actually Dumber & Dumbest.
@Kualinar *Most Dumberest
@@Kualinar If it's a sequel to the current two films, I feel it should be called Dumberer and Dumberest hahaha
Flat earthers arguing that surveyors only account for earth curvature sometimes is like young earth creationists citing scientific measurements of "only" 50,000 years proves a 6000 year old earth.
My father was a surveyor for 50 years. He always adjusted for curvature. This was his small part of the global cover up and every month NASA sent him a cheque for $100…..honest….
Even at $100/month, imagine what their total budgets must be for the literally millions of people across the globe who they need to pay to keep quiet. No wonder NASA never has enough money for missions. It's all going towards The Conspiracy!
I'm a surveyor, where do i apply for the cover up money? ♥
The "honest" convinced me 😂
That doesn't seem much. I'd have asked for more.
it was not 'earth curve' he was adjusting for, it was Topographical Variations. erm derp, how much 'earth curve' you think you'r gonna get in such Short scare Ranges? use you noggins if your have any. Go back to bed sleepwalker..
I'm glad you brought up the corrections needed for the mass of mountains. As I recall, surveying is also how it was discovered that mountain ranges stick down too, i.e. the crust is thicker under mountains. Those errors are less, but are measurable when you survey India due to the immense Tibetan plateau and the Himalayan mountains.
I wonder if I learnt that right, I was taught the mountains don’t affect gravity because they are very light underneath.
Your explanation makes sense too.
@@jsbrads1 It's been a while since I studied geology, but I checked current references (mainly wikipedia). What I said is approximately right, though I'm not writing rigorously for academia. It's a side topic on this channel...
For purposes of this channel, the main gist is that they take measurements and observations and then tweak their models until they fit the observations, not make adjustments to observations in order to fit a globe model.
Back to geology, the continental crust under the Himalayan mountains is much deeper than in most places. Possibly it's unique to that tectonic plate and collision and not a general fact under most mountain ranges. The original surveying was done by triangulation over large distances, in difficult environment, over many years. From the point of view of a plumb line, the weight on the bottom swings slightly towards the mountains compared to if it were on a globe of uniform density and elevation, because in that direction there's more rock instead of air (and rock is more dense). But deflected towards the mountains less than they thought it should, because the continental crust was so thick, and continental crust is less dense than the mantle. Of course that difference is less than the difference between air and rock, so it's only slightly off from originally calculated. If I understood the figures I was reading, we're talking .01% or less adjustment for the mountain range, and considerably less for the thickness of the crust. It's well beyond my ability to go out and survey it myself.
@@Michaelzehr thank you
So surveyors take accurate readings, then add some unneccessary numbers to make it look like the earth is curved, but the readings are still accurate?
according to flat earthers...yes. And we can't forget that they're supposed to *remove* the curvature value, so there's also a chance thingy that they aren't adding unnecessary numbers, but they're subtracting unnecessary numbers according to some 'made up chart'. Which would be equally bad for the accuracy.
The curvature is insignificant at relatively short distances because the earth is huge. You could measure a coastline very accurately with a one foot ruler but it would take decades. Surveyors must logically weigh precision of measurement with the value of the survey. Surveying a parcel of farmland in upstate New York is going to be different than surveying a parcel in downtown Manhattan.
I have bachelor's and master's degrees in Civil Enginenering.
I'll never forget the first day of Surveying Systems on my very first day of engineering school, Dr. Williams taught us the difference between "flat" and "level."
Because they aren't the same thing.
It's hilarious watching them use a pocket level to prove that the Earth is flat.
Hey Dave, that time lapse of the never setting sun in Antarctica is so cool.
Headphone users can slightly hear Rusty breathing through most of the video. I was like "why do I hear snoring? Am I going insane?" lol
Did anybody else notice that when, at 23:20, when Dave says "I think this video has gone on long enough," Rusty immediately picked up his head and looked at Dave as if he understood what was said?
I also noticed when he said "Mary-Land" haha. It's ok I don't expect him to know it's pronounced meh-ruh-luhnd.
@DonPusateri He uses standard UK pronunciation. All Brits say it that way, and they were the ones who named it originally.
@spacelemur7955 Perhaps Rusty is the smart one and Dave is purely a mouthpiece? Has anyone considered that? 🙂🌏
Edit: End a question with a question mark (the first one). Standards must be maintained!
@@veivoli _"Perhaps Rusty is the smart one and Dave is purely a mouthpiece?"_
That would explain why Rusty is often trying to break Dave's habit of waving his hands when he talks.
Finally you got to proof of a globe through surveys! We proved the earth was round using a theodolite in TWO different ways in my freshman year of my civil engineering course
What were those ways? RZA? I have a theodolite and am always looking for ways to play with it.
@@ryherm like dave mentioned, straight line vs arc and height measurement
erm derp. How much 'earth curve' did you um "measure" in such short scale ranges? smh. pathetic you people are.
@@mikeflatbird729 Says the clown who can't explain a sunset without butchering the rules of perspective, and uses numerous childish attempts at insults.
I still have a hard time understanding why Flerfs believe what they see is flat: do they all live in Kansas, USA? Because most places on the planet are, in fact, not flat at all. Plenty of hills, slopes, mountains, valleys. Meanwhile, anyone who takes a plane and gets a window seat on a nice day can _see for themselves_ the curvature of the earth. Who, and what, is really apparent here?
First rule of Flerf: Flerf citations always contradict the flerf’s claim. No exceptions.
Fourth rule of Flerf: Every attempt to flerf-explain a phenomenon contradicts flerf-explanations of some other phenomena. No exceptions.
Gotta lie for Flerf.
what happened to rule 2 and 3?
"have to assume the earth is flat" is not quite the same as "the difference is small enough to be ignored".
Whenever you post a video obliterating FE it reminds me of that simpsons scene "stop, stop! Hes already dead!"
Mine is "China? Little help."
Not possible on flat earth.
We used a total station in archaeological surveys and they do in fact take into account the curvature. These guys are bonkers.
A slightly weird question: can you switch that feature off? If you can, you could survey the same area with both methods and then check which method produces fewer errors. Using the same device for measuring eliminates some systematic errors due to differences in devices (a'ka production tolerances).
@@KonradTheWizzard YES! you actually can! Thats a great idea.
The fact, that you have to mention, that 100mi² is not 100mi * 100mi is... hilarious and sad at the same time.
100 square miles in their reality is 100 miles long by 1 mile wide 😂
Totally agree that it's hilarious and sad, but you can tell that Dave _had_ to explain it because it's obvious that Flatzoid absolutely understands it to mean 100mi * 100mi. 🤦
Everyone here should examine NASA Space Flight's video footage of SpaceX aborting their Flight 6 booster into the ocean. The booster is just far away that it lands beyond the horizon but only the lower quarter of it is obscured by it, the top 3/4 remain clearly visible. Then it tips over _towards_ the camera which is great because you can then see the top of it going _below_ the horizon before the whole thing explodes. Then you can see the explosion emanating from behind/below the horizon with waves continuously rolling across the view _in front_ of it all. Beautiful 4K footage that completely destroys the 'perspective' argument for things disappearing out of view in the ocean.
I have mentioned this before on the comments in many flat earth vids. Now I am talking about the UK. Not America. OK, we have Jersey a channel island,approximately 90 ish miles from mainland UK. I have traveled in a small boat from Jersey to mainland UK at night. From Jersey you just cannot see the light from the lighthouse at Portland (Dorset UK) As you come across the channel at some point you will see the “loom” of the light from Portland. Which is well up into the sky,as you gradually travel on,the light comes into view. But it’s still in the sky. Travel on and the light gradually comes almost to eye level. Eventually actually becoming eye level. If this does not signify the curvature of the earth then I have no idea how flat earthers would ever be convinced.
I asked one of them why nobody had ever seen the coast of France from Portland, or either of the Channel Islands... or watched waves lapping on a French beach from Dover cliffs.
They told me to prove that nobody had.
I don't think they want to be convinced, they just want something that gives their lives some meaning, however pitiful.
These are people who say the sun travels in a circle over the disc and pay no attention to the fact that it looks the same size all the time - that's an illusion - don't trust your eyes. They also say you can't see it when it's daytime in California but night time in UK is because light has a limited travel distance - ignore the stars visible on the western horizon - I'm assuming those are illusions also since it's impossible for them to be closer than that California sun.
They cannot be "convinced" by such simple logic because they already know and are faking it for the likes and views
Excellent science education.
The dishonesty of Witsit is amazing. He says over and over that surveyors MUST use plane surveying or we can't build anything, when the book clearly says that you CAN ignore Earth's curvature over shorter distances, if you choose to do so, because it makes the math so much easier, but surveyors are more than welcome to do it the hard way if, for one reason or another, they need to be extremely precise. Nowhere does it say you MUST ignore it or you'll get bad results.
Once again demonstrating what "doing your own research" actually looks like. Well done Dave!
I suppose the question that wasn't answered in the debate is "if the earth is flat, why is there even a need to take flat segments and stitch them together into a sphere in the first place?"
They believe the globe is a concerted effort by reptilians/illuminati/jews/whateverthefuck to undermine belief in God. The flerfs that like to cosplay as scientists with all their experiments are never going to say that out loud, but that's the short of it.
Gotta love the way Witshit cites "all survey manuals" to rebut the claim that earth has a radius ...and then ignores the fact that _all_ of those survey manuals say the earth _has a radius._
Which is it Austin, are survey manuals an authoritative source, or are they purveyors of the pernicious lie? 😅
Using history as well as math against flerfers? that's hardly fair, they struggle enough as is
I work in the field of flight simulation. Back in the early days of my career, computers simply were not powerful enough to simulate Earth curvature - and it caused MANY inconsistencies. Only when we developed the capability to simulate first perfectly spherical Earth - then one that follows the WGS-84 specification did we finally get high enough precision for things like modern auto-landing auto-pilots to not arrive over our simulated airfields with their wheels six inches under the tarmac! More recently, I've been working on lunar simulation for NASA's Artemis program - and the shape of the Moon is WAY different - so a whole different set of math is required.
Anyway - if all of this was being faked - then I'd have to be a part of the conspiracy...building all of that extra math - only to turn it off for actual simulation! Since I'm telling you all of this quite openly - and there are no black helicopters circling my home waiting to arrest me before I can hit "SEND" - I think it's safe to say that the Earth is not in fact flat.
That's exactly something someone with black helicopters circling his home waiting to arrest him would say.
@@Qs_Internet_Cafe Can't type much - their quantum aura detectors will...bzzzzzztttttt....
The REAL reason the NSA uses dragnet surveillance!
The conspiracy is just THAT BIG!
That must be really interesting work! Artemis is going to be such a cool series of missions!
Speaking as a professional engineer who works in civil engineering, even planar surveys correct for Earth curvature in the U.S. Because the coordinates are compared to a starting point of 0,0 in the state plane coordinate system. But the state plane coordinate systems are given different zones for different curvature corrections. Here in Virginia there is a North Zone and a South Zone. Each zone uses a slightly different curvature correction value.
FLERF: "Do your own research, it'll show the Earth is flat!"
Dave: Does extensive research, proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Earth is a sphere.
FLERF: "Nuh uh!"
If I could make everyone understand one thing about engineering, it would be that we don't have or need perfect measurements, calculations, and models. There is uncertainty and error in all engineering, and how much we can accept depends on the application. We take the easiest adequate solution to the problem because its not worth the extra effort to get a "perfect" solution when a good enough solution is available. That applies to surveying as well. Over a certain distance, assuming a plane works well enough for most applications. How long that distance is depends on how good the solution needs to be.
Over 100 square miles... That's 10x10 miles. Over such an area, the difference between flat and the curve of the Earth is often still within the construction tolerances.
BUT... For the flerfs, 100 square miles mean a square with 100 miles sides.🤦🏽
I myself had forgotten how the labeling of square miles works and fell for the same trap. The main difference is, I actually accepted that I'd gotten it wrong, adopted the correction and - and this is the fun part - immediately stopped being wrong as a result.
I find too many people are more afraid of having been wrong in the past than in being wrong in the present, and it just makes them even MORE wrong in past, present, AND future. That's no way to live. The tiniest bit of humility leads to an endless amount of learning. Those who never learn will be left behind by the world around them, not out of spite, but out of simple cause and effect. The same way standing still on a treadmill will lead to you moving backwards.
Which is 10,000 sq miles.
Yeah, when he said that I just laughed. I do railroad surveys that are usually around 2000 ft in total project length and we still apply adjustments for curvature.
it could also be 100x1 miles... It's just stupid to be talking about an area.
@@riluna3695 Agreed, it isn't a cardinal sin to be wrong. Just accept it, learn from the mistake, and move on.
Dave, you are not wasting your time making these videos, because through your videos, I learn so many interesting stuffs about Earth, space, photography, etc.
Same. The "debunking flat earth" is really just the framework he uses to hang a lot of really interesting information!
I would like to express my respect for your work. What you do not only demonstrates your dedication to science but also showcases your incredible patience. It is no small feat to listen to these arguments, detached from reality, analyze them, and then refute them so clearly and effectively.
The passion and perseverance with which you stand for the truth are truly inspiring. Thank you for devoting your time and energy to this noble cause. Hats off to you!
Wishing you continued success and strength in your work!
Best regards, Joseph from Budapest
Always hilarious to me how the curvature of the earth is obvious in so many ways in so many fields, so it requires pure ignorance of many fields in other to believe for even a second that the earth could be anything but roughly spherical.
I was literally in a skyscraper, looked up, saw the sun's light hitting the ceiling, looked down and saw it not hitting the floor, and thought "oh yeah, the earth is round".
Like, I wasn't thinking about the shape of the earth, all I had to do was look up and there was just proof, right there.
Yet again - a flerf thinks they've found a "gotcha" the experts have missed that proves the globe is a conspiracy and then mistakes their "gotcha" for proof the Earth is flat. And also - yet again - the "gotcha" is really something the experts have known about and taken into consideration for literally decades if not centuries if not millennia. You'd think they'd be exhausted from moving the goalposts so often, but stupidity is nothing if not persistent.
They know the earth is not flat. They're just dishonest grifters.
That annoys me to no end. I work with photogrammetrists and if you want to obtain the kind of 3D reconstructions you see on Google earth you need to keep into account the Earth's curvature. It's not a secret, it's not an assumption, you can work with UTM coordinates but you'll accumulate errors in the 10s of centimeters very quickly. The assumptions you can make all depend on the precision you need.
As a SouthAfrican I apologise for flatzoid, I'm so embarrassed
As a human i apologize😂
@jasmijnariel 🤣🤣 true
Former surveyor here. Very familiar with the Leica total stations. Different surveys require different accuracies, and a lot is done with gps now, but definitely have to account for earth curve for some precise surveys. In fact we calculated the curve roughly using a total stations in school in one lab. Pretty funny to hear witsit talk about it like he knows the field lol
I never did surveying on that scale or with the need for that sort of precision, but even in small irrigation/farm projects the curve will sometimes become an irritant. Most of the time it didn't matter.
Flatzoid, an embarrassment to my country...
We won’t judge you. All countries have their problematic citizens. America has a far bigger problem anyway. They love a cult
Flerfs are the least embarrassing thing from your country.
@robertcatuara5118 that's true... But it still hurts to see this guy online...
My bru, vela.
Don't worry, Flat Earthers are all over the globe. It's just the parasite of ignorance, it's not just your country.
Surveyors have known about curvature for centuries. The Public Land Survey System started back in the late 1700’s realized that. The United States is divided into hundreds of squares called townships from Ohio westward and every 4th townships was adjusted to account for curvature called a standard parallel. Surveyors often refer to Mount Rushmore as the three surveyors and the other guy. The General Land Office survey of the U.S. is a fascinating study.
DAVE: Regarding your trip to Antarctica, just let me say this quote...
*_"Fly Safe."_*
- Scott Manley
“Keep the blue side up”
- Kelsey 74Gear
"DON'T PANIC"
-Douglas Adams
@@Amradar123>>> DEFINITELY in the 2020s...🤭
@@Soundbrigade Blue side down is how I _roll._
@@Soundbrigade b-but they are flying over ocean!
A nice example are the pillars of the golden gate bridge. The pillars are definitely not parallel and this of course is built this way because the curvature of the earth.
It's also worth checking out the Great Trigonometrical Survey of India. This also shows the curve, shows that the curve isn't quite a sphere but is an oblate spheroid, and had to correct for the gravitational pull of mountains. Additionally, since these high accuracy surveys do need to correct for gravitational anisotropy from geological features, that proves that the downward acceleration that we call gravity cannot be explained by saying that the Earth is a flat plate that's being constantly accelerated upwards- from different parts of the surface experience gravity at slightly different speeds and in slightly different angles, the disk would quickly break apart. And since the 'constantly accelerated flat plate' model is therefore ruled out and we know that the different parts of the Earth are gravitationally attracted to each other, that opens up the question of how exactly such a flat plate Earth would structurally maintain its shape without collapsing into a ball.
The Earth can't be constantly accelerating in one direction, because as we approached the speed of light, the field of stars would be more and more distorted. Among other things, the light from stars ahead of us would be blue shifted, the light from stars behind us would be red shifted. We would notice all of that.
Once again...
Flat earthers cannot comprehend scale.
flat earthers cannot comprehend anything
@@victorfinberg8595Flat Earth was one of the main vanguards in our current war of knowledge.
Those who seek to hold power want to annihilate the possibility of knowing.
Now, claims of any kind outstrip our ability to discern.
@@antondovydaitis2261 stop spamming gibberish
@@antondovydaitis2261 "war of knowledge". Yeah, Flat earth is on the side of anti-intellectualism and bringing back diseases we almost got rid of. Go eat more lead paint.
@@victorfinberg8595 First, not spamming.
Second, Flat Earth was effectively the prototype of easily debunked absurdity, aggressively promoted by grifters abusing deliberately credulous marks.
It demonstrated that there is no falsehood so absurd that it can't be promoted and abused.
Also... we do not rely on "planar surveys" for large construction projects. Long Span bridges require curve and air refraction corrections if sightings are over water. This is the same for large-footprint buildings such as malls, distribution centers, etc.
malls and distribution centers huh. how long do you think those buildings are to cover so much 'earth curve'? you people are ridiculous. You only detect and measure topographical variations and elevations. nothing more.
@@mikeflatbird729 so you likely have only been to a small strip mall. Maybe in your trailer park, the biggest building is quite small. Mall of America covers acres just for the building. Giga Factories are even larger. Some Amazon warehouses cover several acres. I worked on a warehouse that was 1,000m x 500m... Thats a kilometer by half a kilometer or in freedom units lots of football fields by not as many.
@@mikeflatbird729 Malls and distrubution centers curve with the earth, Mike. It's not up for debate.We measure the curve. Get over it.
@@EBDavis111 \ what are you smoking? how large and long do you think malls and um distribution centers are? Go back to bed sleepwalker.
@@mikeflatbird729 you are just a parrot with no actual information about the topic at all
and i just realized your name is flatbird. makes much more sense now
Flat earthers seem to enjoy proving themselves wrong.
I have spent over 10 years working for Surveying companies as a 3D Laser Scanning Specialist, Yes... the curvature of the Earth is factored in to all of the calculations for large area coverage.
Bridge Engineer here. Worked on some pretty large bridges. Most of the time, we don't really account for the curvature of Earth, but sometimes we do. It's accounted for on the new Tappen Zee (AKA Cuomo) bridge towers.
Is Witless aware that 100 square miles is a poultry 10x10 miles?
I doubt it.
Unlikely, just like he doesn't realise that 10 miles would only account for 0.14 degrees of curvature. He also seems to think that plane surveying is used to measure the shape of the earth, rather than local elevation and topography.
Failzoid did indeed confirm that he thought 150 square miles is 150 miles by 150 miles. Yes, both Witless and Failzoid really are that dmb.
*paltry
@@Ann_Alglands I think they both know it's not that, but they deliberatly push their gullible market into thinking that's what area is.
A 100 square miles sounds like a lot until you realise that the earth has 197000000 square miles of surface area. Of this would be 1/1970000 of the total.
Now take a basterkball, draw an area on it that is 1/1970000 of the total.
Yup. Oh look, circling one of the bumps on the basketball? Yeah that's still too big lol.
@5peciesunkn0wn they would be bigger than Everest.
@@probablynotmyname8521 they are lol. iirc, the Earth's atmosphere and deepest part of the ocean combined are thinner than the skin of an apple, if the earth was apple sized.
@@5peciesunkn0wn I calculated it for a basketball and the difference in elevation between the deepest part of the ocean and Mt. Everest was I think around if not less than one third the depth of a basketball's ribs.
@Tsudico dang. The Earth has the flakiest crust lol
As a retired surveyor that did surveying before GPS I must say this is a great summary of a wast subject. Since most of my work was for distances up to 10Km we did not have to take earth's shape into account. But for longer distances we always did. It is mostly a case of required precision. Some times we did long distance measuring along the coast required us to measure from high elevation to high elevation on the other end to be able to see the endpoint at all because of the curvature of the ocean!
Videos like this are why I'm subscribed, I like laughing at how dumb flat earthers are, but what I value more is furthering my understanding of how the shape of the earth affects things and I love that you go into detailed explanations of why the flat earthers are wrong so I get to learn some of that stuff. Mostly it is basically what I had been assuming or had figured must be the case, but it is nice to have that stuff corroborated.
They’re not dumb please don’t call them that or we will never teach them the truth. I love how passionate they are about a topic and will die on the hill they’re crazy for their beliefs. I wish they put that same energy to something fruitful.
@sircartier4422 There is no way anyone smart would not be able to verify the Earth is a globe, it only takes simple math and a mild understanding of geometry to do that. Being dumb is a necessary prerequisite for being an actual flat earther. The smart "flat earthers" are just liars and scammers trying to make some easy money off dumb people, they know the earth isn't flat. The first step to not being dumb is to recognise that you are, unless you do you will not take steps to change that, so you are doing them no favours by trying to sugar coat it or avoid the issue. Sure they are more likely to change their mind about flat earth if you don't call them dumb, but you haven't solved anything by doing that, a week later they will just be onto another stupid conspiracy because they won't realise they lack the knowledge to tell the difference between reality and a convincing but false story.
That was such a great sponsor segue. Basically, "Why do I keep responding to these people? Because I keep learning every time."
It's funny to see those two flerfs talking authoritatively about a surveying, a field they have zero training in. And when Flatzoid was talking about 120 square miles, he was treating it as if 120 square miles were 120 miles. No. To get the radius of a 120-square-mile area, you divide it by pi and then take the square root! That's only a 6.18-mile radius. I was yelling at the screen: "SQUARE miles, you idiot! Not miles! It's SQUARE miles!!"
Their system is to glance over some articles in order to mine for small parts that seem to confirm their bias.
The figure for 100 square miles is a circle with a radius of 5.65 miles. At that distance from the centre point the drop is about 255" based on 8" x 5.65². So still not insignificant in reality but Dave needs to do a correction somewhere. It seems like a problem until you work out what effect that will have on a large building site and the answer is not a lot unless you are building really really high and then bridging between the tops of your really really high buildings. I calculated that the angular difference between two verticals at opposite edges of that circle would be about 0.17°.
Flatzoid also does not understand the difference between miles and square miles.
This sentence is too long. It could have stopped after "understand" 😅
It may be faster saying what he DOES understand
@@-SaKage Okay, I'll start,
We often joke that flatearthers don't understand 3D. But as this video shows, even 2D is too much for them.
Flatzoid ignores evidence and facts because of his religious faith. It is fairly common among flerfs who believe their respective religious texts claim the earth is flat and unmoving. Sadly for them all the major religions agree the earth is a globe but the flerfs continue to disagree.
The whole issue with flat earthers is that they look for what the want to hear, take it completely out of context, and throw literally everything else out regardless of what evidence it will tell you.
Which is why it's fun to throw that context back in their face and watch them panic
You also perfectly described the Sovcit people.
I suspect that the Venn diagram for these two groups is a perfect circle.
@@ken481959anti-science conspiracy "theorists" are often the scientific equivalent to a soveriegn citizen. My favorite is a list of 'scary chemical names' and asking 'which of these would you put in your body?' Someone replies 'none of them!' And then they're told that the list is the make up of an apple.
In the early 1970s I had the hobby of designing, building and flying model rockets, and was a member of a club. We would fly them for fun, but also in competitions, in various categories, including one called predicted altitude. We measured their altitude using a measured baseline, and placed at each end a basic theodelite type of device. Each was a tripod, a sighting tube with crosshairs, and azimuth and elevation scales. Placing the launch pad near the midpoint of the baseline (but offset a bit from it to avoid a dead spot from either tracker) we would launch and then "spot" the rocket at its peak altitude (usually recovery system deployment). We would take the azimuth & elevation figures, plug them into a formula, and derive the altitude.
If you are standing in the middle of 100 square miles, then it's 5 miles to the edge of the boundry box for that area. What do you need a telescope for?
You'd need that telescope to look into the window of that neighbor who.... you know. Important stuff. It's very scientific. 🤪
@@KonradTheWizzardfor studying genetics....
23:00 "...then it means that the Earth is flat and every single survey done with those tools is wrong..." Rusty perks up, visibly concerned.
Well, I suspect many popular flat earth content creators are just in it for the money.
I recall watching an episode of one of those "modern marvels"-like shows where they were talking about a particularly long bridge. I can't recall what bridge, but I do remember them saying in the show that ends were far enough apart that they needed to correct for earth's curvature. This makes sense because if they didn't then the towers would be leaning and likely collapse.
Guess what? My father was an army cartographer while in service. He did just that - went into the field with teodolite, took measurements and used them to draw maps for army to use. We can safely assume his superiors wouldn't be very happy with his work, if he was not precise and exact. What my dad did when I introduced him to the concept of flat Earth and their "arguments"? He just laughed. So, yeah - I have first hand confirmation that this argument is bollocks.
Thank you. I am a qualified surveyor, but I haven't been active in the profession for a while. It was a nice nostalgic episode for me. And there was also something in there that I didn't know (or had forgotten).
Safe travels on your incredible adventure to Antarctica Dave! And you might want to add Mark Knopflers - Sailing to Philadelphia to your offline playlist ;)
And as always, thorough work! You set that bar incredibly high for others to follow.
Dave you're still here!? 😅 Hurry up and prove our globe earth! Good luck and safe travels in advance.
I feel I must point out that the globe Earth was proven long ago, but amen to your sentiments.
In short, you can measure spherical excess doing long distance triangulation with a theodolite. The sum of the internal angles is not 180 degrees as in a planar triangle but always slightly more as in a spherical one. I think I was 11 when we covered this at school....
Ramsen built the first accurate theodolite and they were used in high precision geodetic surveys carried out in the UK starting in 1784 which produced the first accurate maps.
11:19 pretty sure it is far more simpler than that, flatzoid assumes a 100miles distance, that's where his confidence is from, because if you do film out on the ocean a few miles out, there is no visible courve as the waves will be greater than the courve itself. he just failing in basic math, not realizing that 100 squaremiles are actually not that far, (well both of them are) thats why they are so confident in those arguments.
So the flerfs are saying surveyors use flat earth except for all the times they use globe earth. That makes sense. s/o
It might be instructive to put a 100 square mile dot on your globe. It'd be about half as big as the Isle of Man. Going to need a 4K display to notice it at that scale
I love how flerfers talk about what others do (surveyors, pilots, civil engineers, scientists, …) but none of them do it themselves or ever had a job as one of these professions. I would love any of these clowns actually try to become qualified enough to apply for these jobs!
Well, there was Mike Hughes, who attempted to prove the earth was flat by building a steam-powered rocket and riding it to orbit.
He ended up as a grease stain on the California desert, but at least he had the courage of his convictions.
Oh, Witless also thinks that runways are perfectly level, doesn't he. No, Witless, just, no.
I have video of an aircraft taking off from Leeds-Bradford Airport, and many videos of take-offs and landings at RAF Linton-on-Ouse, and neither of those runways is level.
Then there's the Altiport at Courchevel.
@@Sableagle How strange; Leeds Bradford is how I know that runways aren't built "level". That thing is practically on a hill.
@@ReValveiT_01 It's the hump in the middle that's really eye-catching.
Two types of flat-earther:
Streamers who lie for money
Viewers with single-digit active braincells.
Bob the science guy said this years ago already. They ones who sell t-shirts and the ones who buy them. 👍🏻
@horisview that's a great way to put it, haha.
Some of them have two brain cells and each is fighting for third place.
There's also the trolls, who are in on the joke.
Have a safe trip Dave! Looking forward to seeing your gorgeous videos of a 24hr sun (no pressure!).
120 square miles is about 11 miles by 11 miles. The rate of curvature in 11 miles is 11/69ths of a degree, well within floor/surface/slab tolerances for most applications. It just is irrelevant for non critical applications.
So it comes down to “flat-earther doesn’t understand scale” again.
The Earth is locally flat but globally curved, i.e., spherical. If only they took the time to explore geometry and topology a little, they might hopefully see how easily the whole flat Earth issue falls apart.
For funsies you can sort youtube comments by "newest" to see a couple flat earthers being dinguses. Their comments don't make it to the default sorting.
These people are just role-playing in a game in which they are the smart guys. If they actually wanted to know the shape of the planet they could just spend a day surveying a one mile transect of the surface of a water body.
If they were really keen they'd fly me to Copenhagen, get me a couple of GPS trackers and rent a canoe for me for a week so I could take those trackers on a water-level tour of the coast all the way around the island, or buy me a canoe and get me the trackers so I could take them on a tour of the UK coastline, but not a squeak from any of them when I suggest that.
Checking the Wiki article on the Humber suspension bridge states, " The bridge is designed to tolerate constant motion and bends more than 3 m (10 ft) in winds of 80 mph (129 km/h). The towers, although vertical, are 36 mm (1.4 in) farther apart at the top than the bottom due to the curvature of the Earth." The world isn't flat
That's just the Illuminati lying to you for control.
FE is a religion that protects believers safe from maths and reason.
If a flattie tells you that you can't observe something... Even without knowing the particular claim I'll blindly predict that there's a very high probability that he's full of shit.
So if one says "you can't observe god" you'll say you can? ;)
@@5peciesunkn0wn No, I'll say "You're full of shit", and I'll be right regardless of what they say at the moment, as long as they are flat earthers. :P
The point is I won't trust them one bit. Even if something sounds reasonable, they can't be trusted when they outright lie about the simplest, most easily observed things.
@@5peciesunkn0wnwhich god? None of them are observable that I am aware of.
@@ken481959 I know lol. I was being cheeky.
Technically you can see any which still have states...
@@5peciesunkn0wn I assumed that you were.But there are many that would use that argument for real. Like when they say that some deity is talking to them or they 'know' what that deity is thinking or saying.
Isn't it incredible how far mankind has developed technologies, whilst all the time using the wrong shape of earth...
100 square miles sounds like a great distance but most understand it’s only 10 miles across.
I does take a mental square root calculation: which is not trivial in the general case.
He thinks 150 square miles is a square where each side is 150 miles. That's why he made the stupid comment about the telescope.
Just a note that the NSF YT channel is live-streaming an interview with Don Pettit, who is on the ISS, to discuss Space Photography. It's super nerdy, but very interesting for anyone who's into space and/or photography.